JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Industry Message Forum Abbey Road Music?

Anyone ever hear of (or work with) a place called Abbey Road Music? Here is their site: www.abbeyroadmusic.net

I sent them a CD last june & they got back to me a couple days ago. Asking if I would consider heading down to record one of my songs with a producer, then film a video and so on. Of course it will cost money on my part, so obviously before I go ahead and seriously consider doing it, or not, I was wondering if anyone had worked with them, or heard about them?

Thanks.

Why will it cost you money?

Be VERY wary.

Thats good enough for me! I was reading that post about that "Don" guy after I posted this... I think I will respectfully decline, which is another way of saying that they probably wont hear back from me.

I just went back and read the rest of that "Don at Affinity" post again... the girl I spoke with at Abbey Road "Angie" is one of the people mentioned that used to work with/for Don. Glad I came here first. That whole "you need to put up money for us to work with you" thing really made me wonder. So I turned to the only place I knew I could to get some honest answers...

Just for the record, I think she wanted me to pay something like $1,300.00 to re-record one of my songs, then shoot a video. I dont know if the video was included in the 13 hundred dollar fee, as I started to lose interest in the conversation and began loading my dishwasher while she kept talking & talking.... if I had to guess, I would say not.

I'm just grateful for this forum and good people out there willing to share their knowledge in an attempt to save someone else a few bucks & a lot of aggrevation.

Thanks!

Ack.. from what you're saying it sounds like the same old same old BS that those types of been involved with for years. Congrats on saving your money.

I think it's "Crappy Road." productions you're talking about

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www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=111254

Well, if this company is anything like the other companies who pull the same tactics, they choose a name that sounds like a famous or legit company and fool most people who don't know any better who think simply the name means they've "made it." Common tactics include using names similar to famous movie studios or even world famous recording studio where the Beatles made their mark. And they are great at extending the misunderstanding even under scrutiny. For in the end, some folks might ask themselves if the Beatles REALLY recorded their music in the Southern US? = )

Brian

Brian & Chazma,
yeah, after really doing some thinking, (Brian, you mentioned in that Affinity post, or maybe it was the Ken Pearson post), that even smart people sometimes fall victims to scammers. I re-read all the info, and thought about the phone conversation I had with Angie. I think the part that really got my attention was, after she explained everything and I didnt respond with a direct "yes, should I book my flight today?!" she asked me if I was interested? I said, "I am interested in hearing more", but she didnt have anything else to tell me except that I would need to make a decision asap, so that they could forward my CD to the final "review board." She also didnt seem to like the fact that I had since put a band together, for some reason that was a problem. She said "that changes everything", even though the music is the same. She proceeded to tell me that they only wanted me alone, when I expressed my loyalty to my band... it seemd to create a whole other area & complicated things.

I am just trying to be careful about what I do with the money that I have set aside for music. Which is why I decided to post my little experience here and get some insight. Which has helped quite a bit. I appreciate it greatly!

[This message has been edited by jtrooster (edited 03-19-2006).]

[This message has been edited by jtrooster (edited 03-19-2006).]

Y'know, the more of this stuff I hedar about, the more leery I am of anybody having any kind of name resembling or imitating something famous in the music or entertainment business.

I would rather deal with something like (say) "Joe Wrabek Music" than something called "Paramount," or "Abbey Road," or "Nashville Whatever." It seems every single one of those is a ripoff.

With respect to production: Preceding this with the caveat that I am a complete novice at this and learning as I go along, if I had $1,300 to invest in my music, and I had a band (neither of which is the case, by the way), I would find me a *local* recording studio and *local* sound engineer I could trust, and record an album. And then I'd spend the rest of the money on marketing. (Yes, there would be money left over.)

$1,300 for *one song*? Methinks they're on a different planet...

Joe
www.soundclick.com/bands/7/joewrabek_music.htm

Amen to that Joe!

$1300 a song, that's not a real pro scammer. Not too long ago, a member contacted me for advice. This scammer wanted $30,000.00 for three (3) songs. He had her convinced he was "connected" to some big names in the music business. I begged her...I BEGGED her not to do it. Months later, she contacted me again, crying. She paid the $30,000.00 (that's THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS) to the scumbag. He then told her he could only produce two (2) songs for her which he did, delivering two demo quality songs. When she started litigation, he threatened her family.

People...don't fall for this kind of bull. Who the guy is isn't important, he's being investigated and litigated, but there's no need to have him find JPF on a name search.

Do your homework, check up on people, find out what rates are reasonable, don't let flattery get you ripped off.

Another popular scam. A "manager" will work with you, maybe even put up the money for a demo, then shop you for investors. Once the investor puts up the money, this "manager" makes off with most of it (maybe even within the law...don't forget, follow the money, laws are made for money makers) without doing squat for you. If you take on a manager, get a lawyer to look at the contract...I mean: GET AN ATTORNEY WHO REPRESENTS YOU...YOU...AND SPECIALIZES IN THE ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS TO LOOK AT THE CONTRACT. If you don't, you can end up being a victim...and a broke victim at that.

It's up to you to protect yourself. The cavalry isn't coming. Put those cans of tuna under the bed. Buy duct tape. Make sure you have flood insurance. Set up your own IRA. Get an entertainment lawyer to look at all contracts.

All the Best,
Mike

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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

Good post Mike.
My publisher has told me of simular tales of people who came to him about these type of deals. He advised them not to do it but they did it any way. I think one person morgaged his house to pay the exhorbant fees.
First of all you can do it yourself and there are studios in Nashville that will do a complete package of I think 1000 CD's and 1000 publicity Photos for around $8000.00 dollars. That includes studio musicians, etc.
Before you do that you need to be ready to promote yourself and ready to book dates. One person who my publisher knows did record a package but most of the CD's are under his bed, so to speak. You can't just sell them on the internet without having a name out there, of which requires getting out there and playing.

If you pay anyone more than 600 dollars to do a full blown, release quality, recording, you're wasting money. And frankly, I've heard songs recorded for WAY less that were as good as any label release. For 600 you should be able to get serious union quality professional players to work on your song, especially if you're doing multiple songs.

ALWAYS check around for pricing and services and you'll usually find what the TRUE market rate is for those services. I am not saying it's best to take the cheapest offer, but when you're paying 2-3-4-5-10 times market rate for the same end result because you didn't bother to do some homework, that's a sad and expensive lesson to learn, usually after it's too late.

I've had members spend 30,000 on 1 single song (same type of story as Mike's we begged her not to do it.. she did it anyway and then came crying back to us when it was a total waste of money). It's happened so many times that I can't even keep track anymore.

People wouldn't pay 50 times the value of anything else in their life, but they sure will line up when some scam artist is telling them their music can "make" it. Frankly, I think there's a special place in hell for those people, but while they are on earth, they'll never have a shortage of suckers willing to write a check.

Brian

Who was it that said "there's a sucker born every minute",wasn't far off.

Everett

That's an old saying, Everett, it's at least two a minute by now. Or as a friend of mine used to say, "There's a woman in the United States giving birth every 35 seconds, and we've got to find that woman and stop her."

All the Best,
Mike

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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

[This message has been edited by Mike Dunbar (edited 03-21-2006).]

Hello, Hello! testing, testing, is thing on?

Good, ok... GET SOMEONE WITH A SOLID LOCAL REPUTATION TO DO YOUR DEMO. You don't need to spend even $1300.00 to get someting presentible these days. Be pationt! the music industry is not going away tomaroe...if it did someone probably did us a favor. Then alot of new faces could get a shot at making a living doing what they love and some honest people could get some much deserved air time!!!

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Steven Adams

I can't understand how people can let themselves be duped like this, especially after being warned by people who know the business. It also amazes me how they will defend these crooks against people like Brian who are trying to talk some sense to them.

Sharks exist because stupid people exist.

The ego is an amazingly powerful thing.

Sharks survive because *food* exists. Nothing requires *you* to be the food. Let someone else do it.

Joe
www.soundclick.com/bands/7/joewrabek_music.htm

Abbey Road Music....
Just a comment regarding Abbey Road Music
I just returned from Nashville recording a project with Abbey Road and Angie...I resent
all these negative comments!!Don't you people know? thia is a business YOU MUST PAY
FOR YOUR PROJECTS!

Let me start out by saying I wouldn't use an out-of-town studio anyway. Got a good local kid with talent and skills; he did The New CD, and I'll use him again. So I'm not shopping, or citicizing, or any of that stuff. I figure I'm relatively well-protected from shark attacks *because* I'm only doing business with somebody local I know and trust.

I was curious, though, and trying not to be too suspicious. Does it seem like every time one of the members here starts up a thread that ends up being critical of a presumed demo mill, somebody pops up out of the blue who's never posted before (and may never be seen again, too) to say how wonderful said company is? What's going on? Am I getting overly paranoid here?

(On the other hand, I always try to keep in mind the Paranoid's Credo: "Just because you're paranoid does not mean they're not out to get you.")

Joe
www.soundclick.com/bands/7/joewrabek_music.htm

[This message has been edited by roxhythe (edited 04-28-2006).]

Curiouser & curiouser, eh?....But what I get a giggle out of, is that a lot of the time that person comes in 3 weeks after the thread had died and simply causes it to be revived...

Midnite

[QUOTE]Originally posted by roxhythe:

I was curious, though, and trying not to be too suspicious. Does it seem like every time one of the members here starts up a thread that ends up being critical of a presumed demo mill, somebody pops up out of the blue who's never posted before (and may never be seen again, too) to say how wonderful said company is? What's going on? Am I getting overly paranoid here?

(On the other hand, I always try to keep in mind the Paranoid's Credo: "Just because you're paranoid does not mean they're not out to get you.")

Joe




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Satchel was right...Something is gaining on me....
www.jackcouldntmakeit.com

Not really on the topic, but when I first saw the Beatles' album "Abbey Road" I thought it was a pun on the name of 50's and 60's entertainer Abby Lane (sp?). It was much later that I figured out it was, indeed, a real street and that Abby's parents probably put the joke on her.

Oh, and by the way, down with Sharks!

Mike

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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

In regards to Abbey Road Music. I recorded one of my songs and a video for 1700.00. Now think about it, to record 1 song in my regular studio is 900.00, to shoot a video with my regular video crew is around 1500.00, and you are complaining about 1300.00? The music business isn't cheap! If you want promotion, your going to pay for it! My song was recorded with Phil and Mark lister who are signed with Epic records and they were even nice enough to do the back up vocals. The video crew and Angie with Abbey Road have distributed my music and they only get paid if they get you signed, Sure they made a few bucks off of the 1700.00 but they are an A & R company, not a label, they can't pay for everything! Think about it, Chuck Neese is affiliated with Abbey Road and makes the final decisions, and he was Warner Chappels top publisher for years. His wife works for MCA, what GREAT exposure! Plus you work with musicians that play on the opry, and major artists every day. Your glasses are half empty and you will be writing on these boards forever wondering who is legit and whos not. I get calls all the time from Angie with news on where my music has been distributed and what the results were. They have met with Sony, Warner Brothers and Broken Bow. They all passed but wanted to hang on to them. I might not ever make it but at least I'm getting in where I could never get in by myself. Life is a risk, why not let them help you a little for a small fee. When you see Angies office and who she has written for and worked with you might think differently. Only labels will pay for everything AND then you still have to pay them back. A video and song done in Nashville with major artist and reps for 1300.00, so whats the problem?

First post? Welcome. Why don't you post your song on our MP3 board, and allow us to be impressed by the work of this studio?
Chas

Everybody wants money. I want money too.

It's interesting that rather than post verificable evidence demonstrating the great quality of the results of these videos and recordings, we just get a lot of outrage about how unfair people here are. What is stopping you, or the people from this company, from simply doing what ANY legit company would do.. provide direct links to the results.. explain what their process is and offer justification as to what they are charging and why?

Also, another sad commonality among scam artists is that they convince people with little experience or talent that they are only a quality demo away from fame and success. That's the scam. Telling someone who isn't good enough that they are to boost their ego and get them to spend money they aren't ready to spend, instead of suggesting they need to spend time developing their skills or writing better songs.

A little analogy: I was considering, purely for the fun of it, to learn how to play the Bagpipes. I had no goal beyond thinking it would be a fun thing to pull out at a show and play something simple just as a novelty. I looked at Bagpipes at several stores and in some cases, the sales people tried to trade me up to a very expensive set of bagpipes. In other cases they were happy to sell me any full set of bag pipes I wanted. I explained I had zero experience and had to learn from scratch.

So which were the scam artists? The answer might surprise you. Both were. Because if you talk to someone who actually understands how people need to learn bagpipes (which I eventually did) you learn that an entry level person wanting to get started should NEVER buy a full set of bagpipes to learn. You should instead by a practice chanter kit (which is just the pipe end that you blow into) and learn on that before even thinking of getting a full set at any price.

These demos studios are at best guilty of selling costly demos to a lot of people who really need to learn how to write songs, play their instrument, sing better or find people who can sing what they write instead of them. Being a scumbag salesperson overselling is not illegal. In fact, in the US that type of needless trade up is often celebrated as good salesmanship in a numbers focused world. But make no mistake.. it's a scam. A non-scamming salesperson job should be there to sell what the customer needs, not simply what will make him money. I classify that type of person as a scam artist. I also classify studios misleading people into spending a lot of money on a demo for a song that's not ready or for an artist that isn't talented enough to gain benefit from the process to be scam artists as well. The scam is in the miseducation and misrepresentation of the facts surrounding the services needed and offered and the value those services will have to the customer.

Add to that when studios overcharge for bad quality service. It's never worth it to pay a studio who produces quality less than the competition. It's also never worth it to pay someone for other services (such as setting up fraudulent "industry" showcases meant to further mislead or bogus "charts" to make victims think their material is getting airplay) which are fake, exaggerated or useless to start with.

Add yet another misleading scam artist tactic. To choose a name similar to another famous brand and make unknowing newbies mistakenly think they are dealing with a famous music industry entity. A great name is a great idea for marketing. Allowing (or worse, intentionally forwarding) misundertanding as to who you really are is dishonest and should be illegal (and may be in most states and countries). Of course many of these scam artists are rich and fat from their ill gotten gains and have become experts at walking the very fine legal line without crossing it. They have a bogus answer for everything. They're good at the charade because they spend ALL their time lying or finessing facts in their favor. And should someone question their bogus services, they are equally expert in attacking the messenger instead of simply supporting their side and justifying their actions (which can't be, especially when you hear the final results of many of their less talented victims).

So.. if any of the above seems to apply to this or other companies.. watch out. ALWAYS check around on the net, here and elsewhere, to get to the truth. Don't just take our opinion, get others. (Just don't waste time on asking the scammers for references because that's easily set up as well.. they're a whole network of scam artists working together in Nashville and elsewhere who scratch each others backs). Find neutral people with no money to be made in the situation.. those are your best resources.

And for those already scammed who are defending the scam artists. Ask yourself the same quesitons. Have you made more money than you spent back from the investment? If not.. you might want to think twice before endorsing the scam artists and involving more victims. Often the biggest victims don't even realize they have been scammed.

Brian

[This message has been edited by Brian Austin Whitney (edited 06-12-2006).]

I'd like to compare those who have actually gotten a real 'deal' after spending $30k+ on a demo vs. those who have spent a lot less.

On my previous trip to Nashville, when I met with Harry Warner at BMI (Asst. VP Writer/Publshier Relations), the first thing he said about my demo was 'nice quality'. I did it on my AW16G!!

I read the news from Music Row, and it's amazing reading the stories of these writers who spent very little money on a demo, yet got publishing deals. I just have not read of many, if any, writers who pour so much money into a demo, and then get the deal. I'm sure they may be out there, but I don't see it as necessary.

Just my thoughts.

Orlando Luckey
www.myspace.com/orlandoluckey