JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Where did Country Go?

I am a singer/songwriter/musician who is getting very frustrated with today's so called country music. It aint country boys and girls it's pop music with a steel guitar, mandolin and maybe a fiddle. My hat comes off to the likes of George Strait, Alan Jackson and a few select others because they stayed true to their roots. And I can't believe the aragance of some of these so called super stars (T.K.). And what in the hell is Big and Rich and Cowboy Troy? Are they trying to turn Country Music into afreakin' Circus? Anyway, let me know what you think. THANKS

Why are you getting frustrated? If you don't like it, don't listen. I don't think much of the movies they make these days, so I keep my money on my hip and find other forms of entertainment.

The good news for you is that record stores still carry Merle Haggard records, Johnny Cash records, Roy Acuff records. If you are willing to dig a little, there is a tremendous cache of wonderful country music being recorded and released by independent artists and labels.

Get yourself a copy of NO DEPRESSION magazine and go find something you can get your teeth into. Spend a bunch of money supporting the artists who are busting their butts trying to provide quality COUNTRY music for you. That will reward them and encourage them to make some MORE good music. Doncha love the free enterprise system?

Amen Brother Tru! Amen!

If ya think that commercial radio sucks, then listen, and $$$$uport, the things that don't suck.

Midnite


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Satchel was right...Something is gaining on me....
www.jackcouldntmakeit.com

I agree there are so many good indie artists out there. Try going to www.mytexasmusic.com. There is some wonderful music available there. Check out www.kevinfowler.com. I saw him in Texas 2 weeks ago and he knocked my socks off.

Ken

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CD's "Penny for My Thoughts" and "Take Me Back to Texas" now available at
www.kenfranz.com, MyTexasMusic.com, and CD Baby

Did you ask Mr. Fowler to reimburse you for the socks?

Truman is correct.

check out CDbaby:
http://cdbaby.com/style/country/

theres 9 sub-genres and loads of good artists who play all kinds of country.

and dont worry, in a couple of years the pop people will move on and the country artists will still be there playing country - like they did in the 80's after the Urban Cowboy effect wore off.

Doug

Obviously I have been misunderstood. I know there are lots of wonderful indie artists. I know several of them personally and as a matter of fact I am currently trying to get some of my own traditional sounding Country and Bluegrass music produced and distributed.
What I am talking about is how nobody knows those Indie artists as well because none of the $$$$$ people want to give them a break. I have been to Nashville twice to try and promote my own music and no one wants to here traditional sounding music. They want the Country/Pop crossover crap.
Ponder this for a moment, those of you who didn't care for my comments. When was the last time you heard one of Merle Haggards new songs on a normal radio station or saw him in a Video (he did one two years ago with Marty Stewart)? The pioneers of Country Music wouldn't stand a chance today on radio because they don't have that "POP" sound. Three publisher/Producers in Nashville told me that my "NEW" song sounded to "OLD". For crying out loud people every one is allowed to there own artistic interpritation especially if it is there own art. So let me say this; support the indies and help them keep food on there table but don't pretend like you don't think they deserve just as much credit for their talent and ability and the oppertunity to be heard along with Toby, Shenia, Keith...etc. I ain't a POP singer and ain't gonna become one just to tickle some rich guys ear.

ric4music,

What you have is record executives that want to expand the listening base of Country to younger audiences. It's obviously working because Country CD sales have sky rocketed within the last year. Big and Rich brings in the young people that haven't been exposed to Country music and makes it main stream.

Big and Rich although I don't care for them have probably sparked Nashvilles turn around.
Bringing more interest in country music.
Country I think will surpass Rap in sales in a few years.
At the same time Country is becoming more Rock oriented Rock is becoming Dead.
So all the once ROCK writers have all moved to Nashville to make $$MONEY because Rock songs don't sell...
but add a mandolin, banjo, or fiddle in the background and you have....Keith Urban.

I think kids today that are first exposed to Classic Rock are picking up on the Country scene because it sounds a little like Classic Rock without the singer being Dead...
The thing is you can go see Keith Urban play.
You can't go see Tom Fogerty or Jim Morrison play out very Often.

Everything seems to be POP.
not only Country but everything.
because youth is driving the market.
they spend the money.
Not Merle Haggard fans.

Traditions are lost at every turn in our culture.

Heck I wish they would play Bluegrass tunes all day on the radio and I could get cuts on Bluegrass Albulms.
Heck I wish we could have Rap burning parties just like the Disco record burning days and bring real rock back.

What ya gonna do.

I don't really want to see rap be mixed with country either. But it was inevitable.
Probably because I don't want hear rap at all.


sometimes a few traditional songs get cut and are successes.

Long Black Train

Whiskey Lulaby

Just a few.

Anyway I sympathise that you want to vent.
Someone force feeds you crap long enough than eventually you get used to it.
Some start to like it.

But as Truman said you have a choice of what to buy and listen to.

DAvid

I think my answer would be:

Country music didn't "go" anywhere. It's right where it always was. The Country Music *Industry* is off in left field somewhere, where it occasionally goes in search of market share. It'll come back to the country when it gets short enough on money.

"Country Top 40" is (my opinion) for the most part banal and uninspired, because (my opinion, again) of the focus on market share (above). The occasional gem--and there have been a few--is not worth audiating through the drivel.

Since songwriting for me is a compulsion, nothing's going to stop me from doing it, or change the way I do it. I perform what I write, and since people keep appauding and inviting me back and expressing other forms of adulation, I'm pretty convinced there's a market for the stuff I write, irrespective of whether The Industry recognizes it. As I've said before, I'm going to continue to ignore them as long as they ignore me. I expect I'll be fine, and probably they will, too.

I take some comfort in the "Hundredth Monkey" Rule: If enough people cease listening to the drivel, and start listening to something else, you will effect social change. The Industry will start marketing what people are listening to because that's where the money is. I may live to see that happen and I may not. I will perform what I want and listen to what I want anyway. Jes' doin' my part...

Joe
www.soundclick.com/bands/7/joewrabekmusic.htm

I don't think so. I think many people who like trad country fail to grasp that they are in a samll--and shrinking--minority. I guess its natural for people to think that they are on the cutting edge, but most are not.

Country music has moved on, and it is not going back. Back to what, for heaven's sake? Roy Acuff? Porter Waggoner?

That music is dying out along with the people who loved it. The world in 2005 is a very different place than it was in 1985, or 1975, or 1945.

Roxhythe hit the nail...country has not gone anywhere. It is still there, big as life. But its share is shrinking and radio conglomerates and label execs have little to do with it. They don't set trends--they respond to trends. Record sales and advertising revenue have everything to do with it.

You don't hear Merle Haggard on the radio because any station playing it would lose market share, and revenue. The Big and Rich fans would switch to another station to hear what they want. Few businesses can afford to sell what the public does not want. Sure, there are Merle fans (I am one!) but we are a dwindling bunch and tiny compared to Rascal Flatts fans.

You are right...the old country stars (or Mozart, for that matter) would not stand a chance today. But, neither would Keith Urban and Shania Twain have stood a chance in 1955. What is surpising about that?

The point I made, is that there is still a viable, active industry that provides COUNTRY music. It is not on Music Row. You know that, so why in the world would you take your trad music there and expect anyone to welcome you?

If you want do be a stage actor, go to New York, not Nashville. If you want to build cars, go to Detroit, not Nashville. If you want to get a record deal doing trad country, for goodness sake, go to the indy labels, not 17th Ave.

No, the indy labels will not make you a star like Johnny Cash. That is because there are not enough record-buying people out there who are interested in what you are doing. BUT...there are some who are interested, and your job is to find them and impress the hell out of them.

Best of luck and much success.

That's really the crux of the common complaint, isn't it? The belief that a cabal of rich execs dictate who is "successful" and who is not, and that the validation that comes from this cabal giving an artist a "break" is the only type of success worth having.

And yet, I open up an issue of No Depression or Paste Magazine and read about hundreds (maybe thousands!) of artists who will probably never be household names, never be millionaires, and never really have it easy -- and somehow, they have full-time music careers that pay the bills! Isn't that success just as valid?

It IS a shame that Merle Haggard can't get airplay on mainstream country radio. But we should be thankful that Merle is still able to put out records and have of career in spite of that fact.

Last night I went to see a friend's bluegrass band play. They're not famous and probably never will be. But they were ON FIRE last night and the house was packed with pierced, tattooed twenty- and thirtysomething hipsters, whoopin' and hollerin' like they'd invented bluegrass.

That, to me, is the future of every once-mainstream music genre. Eventually it goes so deep underground, so uncool, the kids discover it and make it fashionable again

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Scott Andrew
Lo-fi acoustic pop superhero!
http://www.scottandrew.com/music

Oh boy, I want to jump in on this conversation, but I don't have time right now!! ha...

Thank you Truman for an intelligent and knowledgeable answer! It is ridiculous and naive to think that any company will comit to spend a minimum of $500,000 (more likely upwards of $1,000,000) if they do not think an artist will sell records. An artist should not expect these people to sacrifice their jobs on principle.

However, what many of us are probably missing is that a number of traditional artists are given a chance on Music Row frequently--and most do not make it because the radio programmers and record buying public do not want them. A good example is Catherine Britt at RCA. They are hanging in there with her but so far the public hasn't suppported her. Another example is one of my clients, Chalee Tennison. She was given 3 albums but could never break through. She is probably one of the best traditional female singers I have ever heard. Didn't seem to matter to the consumers.

Every Nashville major label head I know loves traditional as do most of the leaders on music row. Makes no difference what any of us personally love. People who want to keep their jobs, support their families, etc. make decisions based on business. They eventually have to give the public what they want--or somebody else will.

Try the Americana format. I like traditional and I belong to the Americana Music Association and support the format. It sure doesn't pay my bills but I like the music! There are a number of great bluegrass labels as well--and many of those artists have crossed over to main stream country big time, like Allison Krause and Union Station.

And by the way--Merle Haggard was recently signed by Capitol Records Nashville. Let's see how well radio and the record buyers accept him when product is released. If they do not--well--don't blame Capitol.

Steve

http://musicrowlawyer.com

Well, in the 60's, guys like Chet Atkins and Owen Bradley created a very new pop sound in Nashville that drove guys like Roy Acuff and Hank Snow off the radio. There was much griping, but the new sound was selling and the old one wasn't. Sorry. So folks like Patsy Cline and Ray Price became stars, and people who sounded like Roy Acuff or Lefty Frizzell suddenly had no offers. It's been happening just like that ever since.

When people like Loretta Lynn and Tammy Wynette were stars, Plowboy Eddy Arnold just had to go away. His time had passed. Then Loretta and Tammy's time passed. Some of Loretta's songs--adored in their time--just sound silly today. Unless you are an old fart like me.

Remember the 80's. Barbara Mandrell, Kenny Rogers, the friggin' Oak Ridge Boys. Is that what you want to return to?

Every genre of music changes and moves on. Don't believe me? Find a kid who sings like Sinatra and see if you can get him a record deal. Or Elvis.

The country you want to hear has moved on. There is no dark conspiracy; just the natural way of things. There is still a small niche. Enjoy it. It will never go away. But, griping about it and blaming labels and radio for it is just goofy. There is not much market for blacksmiths and shepherds these days, and I guess there are blacksmiths and shepherds who are still pissed off about that, but what are you gonna do? Are you going to offer them a salary?

The public taste changes. Get over it. Then go buy a Keith Urban CD and see if you can find something to like about it. He's a helluva lot better singer than Roy Acuff. He's a damn sight better guitar picker than Johnny Cash. He's world's better looking than Waylon Jennings. Maybe the kids know something we don't.



[This message has been edited by TrumanCoyote (edited 04-17-2005).]

Why? Those guys certainly don't do COUNTRY music. You wanna hear country music, listen to the Carter Family.

Country Music began to change in 1956 and hasen't recovered much since. The Country Music Association and the Country Music Hall of Fame was established to slow the change but it was time for a change even tho the change was not as good as before.

Today one must not forget the Consultants that decide what you will hear on Radio, as well as the Payola that goes a long way deciding what gets on Radio as well as Radio dictating to the Labels of what they will play. On top of that no Artist today can capture the sound of the past as they aren't influenced by those Artists of 50 or so years ago. On top of that in order to get away from the Steel Guitar and Fiddle other instruments are substituted of which at times sound like two Tom Cats checking each other out if and when you can make it out. What gets on Radio for the most part is very sad but that's what some brag about as being really great.

The other thing is a lot of Radio Stations are Programmed from remote locations so you can no longer call them to request a song. If it is not on their play list you probably won't hear it.

When I do check what is playing on the local country station I am usually disgusted.
However it is good to read posts that are also not too pleased about the music offerings from the Major Labels.

Ray, did you actually read this sentence when you were typing it?

Relax, buddy. Have a cold one.

I can't read Truman. Did ya hear the one about Harry Truman fertilizing the Rose Garden when he was President?

I see this happening in my own family. My 3 teenage kids would've never gotten interested in country music if it weren't for Keith Urban, Shania, or B&R.

And it's because of these new artists that they'll sit down and listen to some songs by Hank Williams, or Loretta Lynn. Maybe not a whole albums worth, but 1 or 2 songs, and I think that's a positive step.

I don't know about you guys (and gals), but I call myself a songwriter and I write songs. I don't sit down and say "I am now going to write a country song" or "I am now going to write a rock song." I just write what I feel. After it comes out, then I have to decide where it fits, because the world seems to want to categorize everything. When I play it unplugged, I see who responds to it. But, when it comes to recording it or playing it with a full band, then I have to decide what genre the song would sound best and go over best in.

A lot of good songs would work in many different genres. Many of the Eagles songs work as rock or country simply because they are good songs, period.

This "Where has traditional country gone?" stuff smacks too much of the "My style of music is better than yours!" attitude. Remember, "We are all in this together!" (I've heard that somewhere before.) I don't think the general public cares whether it is rock, country, bluegrass, rap, etc. They just want good music. They may go first to a style of music that has satisfied them in the past to find more of this good music, but the public in general is open to anything that they can relate to. If traditional country isn't making it, it is because the general public can't relate to it anymore. That doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who do relate to it, it just means that there are now less of them.

Also, as time goes on, more and more new music styles are introduced. That means there are an incredible number of different styles of music to select from today. That probably means that most styles are going to have a smaller market share today than the typical style 30 years ago. When you have 100 styles to chose from rather than 10, each style is going to have less market share. I don't think the record execs have realized this yet. They are going to have to change their marketing and distribution strategies and embrace more different styles and expect less sales from each individual style in order to maintain total market share.

Bottom line: Do what you like the best that you can and don't rely on the big companies as they are also pretty clueless on what to do next and they probably aren't the future unless they change dramatically.

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Stone Marmot
experimental pop-rock
www.stonemarmot.com
www.soundclick.com/bands/4/stonemarmotmusic.htm

[This message has been edited by Andy K (edited 04-18-2005).]

I don't think you're listening to the same stations I am. I hear a lot more fiddle and steel guitar nowadays than I did in the 90's. Joe Nichols, Dierks Bentley, Gretchen Wilson, Craig Morgan, Leeann Womack... all of them embrace traditional or outlaw country. "Long Black Train", a big 2004 hit, is as country as it gets. Even Toby Keith is into the act... his new tune channels Waylon Jennings. Brad Paisley is a country traditionalist with immense talent and growing popularity. Yeah, Big & Rich and Cowboy Troy are out there, but the music's gotta change and expand with the times (the commercial part of the music, that is). If you don't want to hear any pop, rock, or hip-hop influenced country, you'd probably better stick to your CD collection (I usually do, myself... but I like to listen to commercial country radio to keep up).

Corey

"Nothing" stays the same. Why should Country be any different from the rest of the world?
People in charge of labels change. Producers change. Promoters change. TV changes. Radio PD's change. Music accountants and lawyers change their fees! Money changes,,,hands! (More change in a lot of people's pockets fom the changes). It all leads to hearing different music than before.

I personally don't like change all that much though. If I hear, or wear, or eat something I like, I'm going back to that over and over again. But that all changes me too!
"Cha Cha Cha Changes".

Now's the time for the public to "change" their buying habits, and search for their style of music that relly hits them, through independents. That should change things!

John Daubert

I don't know where country music went, but as a sidenote, I heard an interesting report on the news over the weekend. It seems that there is a new trend among school-age African-American boys who are beginning to hold up their baggy, low-rider pants with belts that have huge, gaudy, rhinestoned, country western-looking buckles. The report said that the kids are emulating a couple of rapsters who had copied it from country music singers. Western clothing stores are selling out almost overnight--the bigger the buckle the faster they sell. Maybe country music is making an impact in places we would have never thought.

As as sidenote to the sidenote, a few years back a band called Run C & W recorded a couple of albums that they described as, "sweet soul music played the way God intended it--bluegrass style." Maybe we're about to start hearing sweet country music played R & B style. Get ready for Blue Moon of xxxxing Kentucy Keep on Shining You xxx xxxxxx ...

What happen to country music is about ten years ago it went very pop like you mentioned. All the kids of the 60's and 70's are now middle age, and still like the sounds they grew up with. So what producers are doing is making rock country records and far from pure country records. I don't think any of the middle agers like the new rock music that is out, it is very driving at times and a bit in you face

Aall that say there is no good music out there to listen to anymore, all I can say it is out there and stronger than every. You just have to search for it. One big problem is many of us working adults don't have the time to find what's good, because of work and/or famly obligations.

If you waiting for Wal-Mart or Best buy to tell you what's good you maybe in for a long wait.Same goes for big radio. Most radio stations are owned by a few big companies, so keep that in mind.

I myself get NO DEPRESSION, which is an awesome source for folk, acoustic, alt-country music. I will high recommend this mag.

I will also high recommend working on your own music with friends and family, and turning off the TV at night.

later
Michael

amen brother! hats off to the likes of george strait and alan jackson, who have managed to mov forwad with the times, but to stay true to the roots of trasditional country and not go all cheapo! i feel enocouraged though, its seems the last year thee have been some artists emerging who have become popular on the mainsteam country charts, but are actually countryARTSTS, not just commercial performers. miranda lambert is on that comes to mind.

Thanks for the honest responce rivergirl. I'm glad to see someone respond without trying to give me the history of country music or trying to defend those artists who don't even know who is supporting them. I will agree with you on Miranda. I'm also kind of partial to the likes of Josh Turner and Still have a big place in my heart for Mark Chestnut and Joe Diffie.
Anyway, thanks for responding.

Ric

Yep. The prusts probably said the same when Hank, Chet, and the likes came along too though.
Watch out for my new song based on the question.
Won't be the first time I have writen about it though.
Just saw a new, well differant to any I have used, approach to it, i could still use a favourite line in.
Hope country swing is traditional enough for enough people.
Just too plumb sad for bluegrass.
Graham


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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhendersonmusic.htm

here it is.
3/4 time.
I didn't end up using the line I had planned to trasnsplant in it as the thing took a bit of a serious track as it went.
Never did find a chorus either, and ran out of time right at the time i wanted to, with the words I wanted it to say anyway.
I'll probably demo it later today so i can christen it o my radio show tomorrow.
Graham
We�re Back In The Saddle Again
� Copyright Graham Henderson APRA 2005
My son was playing, some old records.
My Father, had, passed down to me.
Those old seventy eights, still sounded great.
And brought back, some sweet memories.

My boy looked at me, with joy in his eye.
And asked, what had happened, to country.
I was sort of stumped for an answer.
As I didn�t know it had gone away.

I figured, it, had just, changed some.
To fit, how, we live today.
But what the hell do I know.
I like most stuff, the main stations play.

I said Son, although, country has changed.
From what, I heard, in my youth.
The good, among, still comes down.
To, three chords, and the truth.

These days, out bush, the push is to wheels.
They say, the day of the horse, has past.
And it isn�t how good, a stockman you are.
It�s, how cheap, you�ll work, and how fast.

So, that comes out, in the music.
�Cause, it�s the times, that shapes, music and men.
And, don�t be surprised, as we see, fuel prices rise.
That we�re, back, in the saddle, again.


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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhendersonmusic.htm

Graham
Thanks so much for sharing. Looks like it would be a pretty cool song. To bad you live so far away, I'd like to hear how you arang it.
Any way, about the Title Idea. I wrote one about 2 months ago with that exact Title(Where Did Country Go?) and I've already gat a Demo ready to go.
I'm getting ready to go post it on the lyrics page and see what "they" think. After the contriversy I strirred up with "Their Sacrifice" I'm not sure I want to. This post seemed to make enough people mad. Oh well' we're all entitled to our opinions.

Thanks again Graham and good luck with the song.

Ric.

Thanks Rick.
I did this in 3/4 time and it was okay but I tried it in 4/4 and it was better so I wrote the music to it i that.
Bit of a bits shuffle and it now has a chorus, and I have a few more word to fit in tere .
it runs just under 3 minutes in music, so be doing that later and posting the mp3 on my sites.
you do know you can make an mp3 of a song and put it o any of the free sites o the web so we can al hear it don't yo Ric?
Ya welcome Cober.
Thanks for giving me the starting thought.
One thing all thought have i common is, they have to start somewhere.
Most times from ommubnicating with folks.
Graham

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhendersonmusic.htm

there ain't nothing wrong with a steel guitar or fiddle or mandolin..i'm learning how to play those..those make the song sound great..i'm a true country music fan. the old ones like alan and them are also great but so is big and rich, gretchen wilson and all them...

No disrespect intended, but IMHO, country music blows. Every singer sounds exactly the same and every country song seems to have a steel guitar amd a fiddle in it. Anything different is a welcomed change.

rb,

I'm sure you meant no disrespect to any of your fellow JPFers who may like country music and enjoy, or possibly play, steel or fiddle. I'm assuming you must have used the word as a jazz player from the 50's would say, "Man, that cat can blow!"

Certainly our members respect each others' musicianship and taste, regardless of their own individual likes and dislikes.

For any pedal steelers or country violinists who may be reading this: think not ill of rb.

As for myself, I love both the fiddle and steel as well as country music in general.

Two players come to mind. Vassar Clements, a fiddlist who played with people as different as Jerry Garcia (Vassar was a member of Jerry's "Old and in the Way") and Bill Monroe (known as the Father of Bluegrass), as well as having a marvelous country/jazz/rock band of his own. Vassar could play stone country and experimental jazz, he was a truly rounded musician and is sorely missed since his passing last year.

Then there's the late Jim "Big Murph" Murphy! Jim played steel with Asleep at the Wheel, Johnny Paycheck, Earl Scruggs, Vassar, Hank Williams III, and a long list of greats. Jim also played sax, tenor and alto, with a great honking style. Murph's steel was very "orchestral" in approach, he'd play tunes such as "Green Dolphin Street" or "Take the 'A' Train" with a flurry of lush chordal melodies. Murph is also greatly missed.

Both of these men were consummate musicians, bridging many forms and styles, rooted in country.

Man, did they ever blow!

All the Best,
Mike

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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

Thanx Roxhythe:

I could not have said it better. For the most part, I've turned off what passes for Country Radio unless I know that the format is more traditional. (I'm sure that the account execs and the slimeball producers in Nashville could care less.) CMT is certainly beginning to spend more time catering to the inexperienced teen crowd.

As for "country music" surpassing RAP at some point in the future, heck, a nursery rhyme will be able to do that. Even the most crude and vulgar amongst us will eventually get tired of wallowing in slop.

Thank God this is still a free country and I am allowed to have an opinion.

RICE

I thought we covered this all in the "Why does modern country suck out loud"thread. Glad to say I've moved on to the NEXT rant, stay tuned...

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bc

Stick around, bc, you'll find threads repeat. I'll bet if you dig, you'll find at least ,5 or 6 threads on the same subject. Some repeating subjects include Taxi, file sharing, and PROs vs. club owners.

As you read through them, you'll see how easily I shift positions.

All the Best,
Mike

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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

Where did country go.
China.....it went to china, like everything else.

L.

I bumped a few other threads on this subject, just for grins

Mike

And yes, I believe country's being outsourced to China and India.

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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music