JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum PC or Mac?

Looking for your computer preference & reasons (why?). Let's call this an unofficial polling of the working musician's computer preference.

Jeff

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"Don't forget to dance." The Kinks
javamusik.com

What kind of computer have you been using in the past?

JeanB

Well, I imagine you're going to be using a computer for music... For price and performance, going the pc route is the best...

If you have the smarts and experience for this kind of stuff, you can build and great machine, for peanuts, comparitively speaking... I built a machine this year for $600 dollars, with 1 1/2 gigs of ram, 2400 Athlon chip, 2 60 gig hard drives, a great board, CD-RW and very good video card... I already had a monitor, but you can get a 19' for $150 to $160 if you buy from the right place... This machine wll definitely last 2, 3 years, at which point it only cost me $200 a year to own...

If you don't build your own, you can still buy a machine with a 2400 Athlon, with 512 ram and an 80 gig drive, CD-RW for about $650, if you buy mail order... You can definitely do music on that...

Since computers depreciate faster than anything on the planet, it doesn't pay to have the latest and greatest and pay top dollar... Right now the technology is at a point that even if you use last year's technology, you're still going to have a monster of a machine...



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www.mp3.com/paulradelat

Choosing a computer system can be likened to choosing one's religion. I don't usually discuss religion either.

They both work just fine with someone who understands them. They both can be problematic if you treat them badly.



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Larry
www.audibleresponse.com

I'm back, but am leaving tomorrow for several days, again.

In response to your inquiry, Jean, I have been a 'MacAddict' for almost as long as I have had my hands on a Mac (since'85). I can't really get into the technical reason for it. I do however have a real concern with the herd mentality that seems to often beset the PC mindset.

Here's what I see, in black & white:

Who seems to be the number one market push for the IBM/Windows/Microsoft/Intel network? From what I can see - Business Applications. Generally , not me, beyond the little bit of business I do for my small JavaMusiK label. My Mac can handle that.

Who seems to be the number one market push for the Apple/Mac group? Creative Arts & Education.

I am a musician & a music teacher. It's nice that they consider me enough of a priority to acknowlege it. Remember Think Different?

I am also amazed at how often my PC friends have to have their machines worked on, serviced, sent in, updating their anti-virus, etc. Meanwhile, I have never installed anti-virus software, yet I spend many hours on the net & just don't really seem to ever have a problem.

Pretty stable machines, these Macs.

I always remember a friend I had in college over 20 years ago who gave me some rather intriguing advice. It had something to do with the mindset that conformity is not always a great idea. (Remember that 'herd mentality' concept?)

Just because 'everyone else' seems to be doing/using something doesn't make it the way for (me) to go. In fact, it can impede one's tendency to think like an individual. There's a whole philosophical/leadership rant that I could digress into here....

In my mind, I see Apple to be more on the cutting edge with breakthrough ideas and that excites me.

Are they perfect? Heaven's no. Do I agree with Steve Jobs' politics? Not much. But I do see more of a revolutionary/rebel attitude sometimes bordering on dangerous, which makes this little computer company much more fun to own a part of.

Let's hear it for the UnderDog!

Jeff

p.s. I'm sure there are some die hard PC activists with a few responses to this bit. Give this forum some of your 'religion.'

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"Don't forget to dance." The Kinks
javamusik.com

Great Question. I have two views. I agree that if you are experienced with PC's and familiar with the OS, it will be cheaper to go in that direction. You'll get a lot more bang for your buck. But if you aren't, the Mac is a more idiot proof machine.

Windows is a ripoff of MAC's OS. A poor one at that. Macs are more expensive up front but easier to maintain and In 8 years thru four machines I've never had a virus. Despite the hype, Macs crash too. And if you're working with huge files such as graphics and/or music, it's gonna crash more often. I'm experienced on both but because I've been a mac addict for so long, when major problems arrive I can fix them from experience.

Dude - you're up way late! Go to bed!

Yes, I did have to recently reinstall OS9 & OSX due to some sort of unresolved conflict between the 2, therefore losing ALL of my un-backed up data. (Let my ignorance shine here for a bit. )

However, I was going to mention the Mac-first thing with the 'Windows' concept (actually Xerox had it first. Mac just applied it to the personal computer platform fist.), but I was already rather long-winded in that post, so I'm glad you brought it up.

Idiot-proof - yes! I want user-friendly without a lot of language that makes no sense! Using a computer is so time draining, anyway!

Later,

Jeff

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"Don't forget to dance." The Kinks
javamusik.com

If cost is no object and you are already a Mac user, it's logical to go with Mac. You have the options to work in either the old OS 9 system or the new OS x. If it's important to share data files with others and most of them use Windows only programs, like Cakewalk or something that doesn't provide cross platform file compatibilityt then the PC would probably be better.

Mac is just easier to use. PC is a little more awkward and the windows frame seems to take up an awful lot of screenspace. I have worked on both but I prefer Macs. It isn't a status thing and I really get sick of the Mac and Windows addicts trying to put the other systems down. It's a matter of preference.

Yes Macs can crash too. And sometimes you get a lemon as well. I got a lemon iMac and had to exchange it.

Oh, and I would recommend getting virus protection because I HAVE gotten a virus on a Mac because of an internet download. I didn't do it, a Mac technician did it on one of my earlier Macs. He thought he was doing me a favor (unasked for) by downloading an update. But they didn't have virus protection on their computers. Duh!

It was a bear fixing it. I managed. But it was really difficult.

JeanB

ha!

vanilla or chocolate?
protestant or catholic?
republican or democrat?
mac or pc?

ask these questions in the right places, and you can easily start a fight!

windows pros: cheaper, more options (software and hardware-wise), more avenues for support

windows cons: far more ornery and crash prone

mac pros: less crash prone, better standards (software behaves more predictably), more useable, generally easier to use

mac cons: more expensive, fewer options (although the addition of unixy a backend is changing this), depending on how savvy you are you may have trouble sharing stuff with your pc friends.

personally, i'm a linux user. but i use windows and mac at work. i like them both and i use them both.

As I have been using personal computers since they've come out, I feel qualified to answer this one. Actually, I feel qualified to support JavaMusik in most everything he said.

I will only add that the creative group went Mac early because Macs used a chipset and OS that allowed for much more RAM while the INTEL|DOS and later "WINTEL" combination was still struggling with tiny amounts of RAM and dual floppy drives! So because the creative types NEEDED RAM, Macs where their ONLY reasonable choice.

In this day and age though, PCs and MACS are pretty much the same. Both are easy to use and have monster capabilities. But it is an inescapable fact that much more software exists for the PC platform than for the MAC, and PC based systems outsell MACS by a wide margin.

STILL, it is all about what YOU want to do with your computer, and what YOU prefer. I've used both, but I prefer PCs... like JM says, it has more business applications.

As for viruses, EVERY home user should take some simple precautions which will keep them safe. It is actually businesses running servers and networks that are vulnerable and need to worry much more about security.

Ciao

Use PCs if you want more versitility and MACS if you want more user friendliness.

I have a PC & home but run a MAC music lab. Macs are fun and easy to use, but if you really want to get into the nitty gritty (tweaker galore) you'll probably want to go PC. There is more support for PCs and so there are many more different routes that you can go. For instance, I've yet to see a MAC version of MIDI Translator, which is an awesome PC software that converts incoming CC messages and reroutes them into custom CC numbers or your choice for sysex. For simplicity's sake though, I'd go MAC.

This is what I've experienced, others may differ.

I had 13 mac computers going back to the day they released the very first Mac SE (little black and white 9 inch screen built into the computer case). It was 3500 dollars. My HP Inkjet printer (number 179 they ever made! hahaha) was 800 dollars and printed at a whopping 300 dots per inch though of beautiful black and white only. I had an amazing 1/2 meg of ram, which I spent 400 dollars to upgrade to a then unheard of 2 meg of ram. I also had an enormous 20 meg hard drive, which again, at the time, was beyond enormous. It also had one of the first super floppy drives which could handle a 1.4 meg floppy. CD roms etc.. were unheard of. My 2400 baud modem was sexy fast at the time too.

I upgraded and upgraded 12 more times with macs. But it got to the point where I could buy 3 windows machines for the cost of 1 mac.. so I could stay up to date 3 times as often as on a mac. I hated to switch and felt like a Mac traitor.. but since that time, I am glad I did. Mac stuff is awesome.. but if you don't have the money to really take advantage of their top end technology, which is often cutting edge (and yes.. it still ALWAYS crashes, especially when using Pro Tools and high end software.. all these claims that Macs or new PC's don't crash anymore is off base) then you're left out. For a long time, it was REALLY hard to get extra hard drive capacity (while Windows machines had ultra cheap ram and hard drives). Things have evened out a little with universal outboard gear via USB, but I still feel that if money is an issue, go PC, if money isn't an issue, go Mac.

Brian

[This message has been edited by Brian Austin Whitney (edited 08-04-2003).]

Geez ... My first post in these boards, and it turns out I reply to a computer topic.... :-) In any event...

Years and years ago, I heard an excellent piece of advice on choosing a computer system: FIRST find the software that does what you need it to do. THEN buy the computer that will run that software.

Herd mentality, conformism or non-conformism, or anything else should have nothing to do with it. What are you going to do with the computer? What specific software applications will do those jobs? What specific computer system do those applications require to run?

Anything else is the cart before the horse.

I started out way, way back on an Apple //c. We bought that computer because that's what they used in the schools, and we had a 12-year-old daughter who the computer was actually for. We wanted her to be able to practice at home what she was learning in school. (Hey -- sort of like a musical instrument!)

Later on, I began using that computer for my businesses (writing and online services). But I finally got to the upgrade crunch -- I needed more horsepower, so I started evaluating.

Apples (including Macs) were expensive, hard to expand, and had (relatively) few applications written for them. PCs were commodities: cheap, and easily expandable with off-the-shelf components. But most importantly, for all of the things I needed to do, there were myriads of applications available. And even more importantly, a few of the applications I needed weren't available for Apples.

So I went through all of the "traitorous" separation anxiety that most Apple users experience when leaving the flock, bit the bullet, and bought a PC. This was around 1990. I haven't regretted that decision for a second since. Because I've been able to do what I have to do (and what I have to do has expanded exponentially in the intervening years...)

Yes, this is a question that often brings out religious overtones, zealots on both sides. Clearly, I'm in the PC camp now. But I think the actual decision should be made on a practical basis -- buy the machine that does what you need it to do. Otherwise, you could buy the best machine in the world, but be sorely disappointed in it.

--- Ed ($0.02)

I have a question for Java or whoever else that can answer. My G4 came with OS 9.2 and OSX. After a crash, tech support suggested I use either one or the other. Since all my business (graphics) software runs in 9, I eliminated 10 when I re-inititialized. I want to run both now and just switch OS for the rare programs that only run in OSX.

Any advice from you Macsperts? Can I just install the OSX or would I have to initialize and partition the disk?

I'd go to the apple website support forum for that one and look up installing OSX.
You should be able to get that information from your installation CD too.

I suspect you do have to partition the hard drive though because they are separate and completely different operating systems and need their own space. If it's been awhile since you got the computer you may need to go to the website and get updates after you reinstall the OSX.
Make sure you back up your hard drive before you install though. If you back up to CDs make sure you test all the data to make sure it copied properly.

JeanB

I've got multiple Macs and PCs because there are certain things that each is good for, but the Macs win everytime when it comes to basic needs like word processing, email, graphics, sound, etc.

Sure, you can argue that they're more expensive, but they're rock solid (especially with OS X) and you'll do more business on them...which will make you the money to pay for them.

An eMac or iMac is under $1000 and they're both great machines.


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KR TIP SHEET - Film/TV Music Placement and more...

www.krtipsheet.com

Seems this thread is nearing the end... :-)

I'd like someone to show me one bit of software from the Intel side of the PC world that I can't find on the Mac side. I'm talking commercial software, not custom writing business stuff that costs thousands.

In answer to the crashing thing. I used to average probably a crash (maybe two) a month in OS9. I've been running OSX since January of 2001 and between now and then I can count the number of crashes I've had on one hand - most of those 5 crashes came back in early 2001.

In answer to the "can I run both OS's on one mac"? Yes, you can. You don't even need to partition your drive, but if you really want to keep 9 and X stuff separated then it can't hurt. I still have OS 9 on my currently computer even though I haven't used it much this year.

That will change in about 2 weeks for me as I'll have a new G5 here in the studio and it will only run OSX. I haven't had a need to go to OS 9 for about 2 months. Everything I ever used in OS 9 has come to OSX, except for one or two plugins that I don't really use anymore.

If you prefer PC, buy one. If you prefer Mac, buy one. Buy whatever makes you feel like you get the most work done and satisfies your computing needs. It's really that simple.

Jody

Jody - I'm an open source geek - so I use tons of GPL'd and open source software. Much of which is only starting to be ported to the Mac. It's getting better since OSX - but Mac still can't run many of my favorite apps. Also, if you game on a computer, tons of commercial games never produce Mac versions.

On the flip side -- though, Macs still have enough commercial software to meet most users needs, I think. It's just a matter of how many choices you have. On a Mac you have fewer -- but those fewer choices are likely to run more reliably AND be easier to use.

There just is no right answer in this debate. (Of course, everyone should be using Open Source Software -- but that's another debate, right?)

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kit malone
http://www.kitmalone.com

Actually, I think the old argument of finding the software and then picking the machine that runs it has become outdated. Most people do far more than "compute" with their computers now. Multimedia stuff like burning CD's and DVD's, doing lots of audio production, video production, watching movies, and surfing mean that outboard gear and gear that attaches to the computer is as important as it's ability to run software.

Brian

Speaking of audio editing -- has anybody seen this:

http://ardour.sourceforge.net

I seriously love it. I've been playing with it here in the lab at work, and it really kicks. It isn't protools just yet, but it's close enough.

I'm going to be building the next iteration of my home studio using it on a dedicated PC. And since it's GPL'd, I bet a port to OSX isn't out of the question.

Brian, I think it's a concept that should be outdated and although a lot of software developers are starting to work toward that end, we aren't there yet.

As I scour the net for the latest programs or even look into the older ones, I often find the "sorry , no version for Mac yet" still too prevalent.

Cakewalk for instance. Most of the PC users that I personally know still use Cakewalk. A similar program is available to the Mac (I think it's called Metro) but the last time I checked the Cakewalk and Metro files can't be read by each other.

Also RFV was still unavailable for Mac as well as a number of other music file players.

Finale files have always been cross platform. I don't know about the other major notation programs. I suspect some of them do now too.

So if file exchange is vital to the user, it still needs to be taken into consideration when choosing a computer.

JeanB

I must be one of the relatively very few people that has problems porting things between Mac and PC then.

Kit - I'm not a gamer so the games thing doesn't effect me. I don't know anyone that bases their decision to buy a computer soley on what games they play. Also, I stand by my comment - name me one program where I need 100 choices of the same thing. So, name me one program (non-game) that I can't find on the Mac by either the same company or something equivalent. Like Brian said - much to my surprise - it's a mute point.

There's a real workaround for transfering audio files between platfoms Jean. You'll need to export each file from the bar one of the song. Label each track as to what track it is. Probably best to work with .WAV files since PC's are so finicky about their audio format. Then you can import all the audio files into the arrange page at bar one and they'll all stay in perfect sync.

Or better yet, step up to Pro-tools, or Logic (oh wait, Logic has moved to only be on Mac) or Nuendo, All of those have the ability to use OMF files which allows for being able to import songs between them without some much fuss.

To expand on Brian's thing... It' beyond computing, it's more how it fits your lifestyle. This was an interesting thing I just read: Microsoft's slogan is: 'where would you like to go today?' but Apple actually innovates the way there.

I think I read that in business week and it came from a hard core PC user.

Jody

i'm not going to get involved in a mac/pc superiority pissing contest. i'm a primarily unix/linux user, and the whole thing seems silly to me.

neither are better, but both have different strengths.

Oh my! This discussion found it's way over my head in a relatively short space of time.

The one given that can be assured from a forum such as this, is that no-one will likely convince anyone on the other side of the fence that theirs is the superior product.

However, reading through these posts, I am amazed at the level of intelligence displayed and fine points on both sides that I would have never thought of. Very educational, indeed.

As for me, my budget dictates that I hold on to my current iMac (17 gig hd) for 2 more years, however, I am considering buying an external hard drive, now that I think I've learned how to do it.

My learning curve seems to be a bit on the slow side.

Jeff

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"Don't forget to dance." The Kinks
javamusik.com

would be interested in seeing if this debate has changed any in the two-plus years since it began . . .

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JavaMusiK

E-Mail JavaMusiK to get your cd's added to the JustPlainFolks Gallery at:
cdbaby.com/group/justplainfolks

I've enjoyed reading this thread. It's such a classic debate.

Being an artist and musician there has always been a clear favoritism toward Mac's for me for so many reasons. In the working world I was forced to work and learn about PCs. No regrets. I'm glad I can use both. I own both, but favor my mac for personal work.

The one thing that has always stood out in my mind was Steve Job's initial vision that the Xerox "window" technology was something that could place a computer on every desk in the world. What a vision!
Apple's intent was to be inclusive. I'd really like the PC world to finally catch up with this kind of thinking.

jm

Mac. All I have ever had.
I was a graphic artist for years, and Mac's are well suited for that.
Now I run a ton of recording gadgets, and software through this one.
It's a pill sometimes, but overall. I like it. I can't compare it to anything else because I have not gone down that road.

L.

I heard on the news that there's a virus out now that goes after Macs.It comes in as an instant message. Gasp.


Mike


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You have to practice improvisation. -Art Tatum

Mike Dunbar Music

What? There's another kind of computer other than Windows? Doors? Oh,,Just what I would need, ANOTHER 8 years of fumbling through high tech geek stuff that is there just to make me look like more of an idiot, as THEY assume I would know all of the do's and dont's of their system!

I just figured out my Mr. Coffee!

John

PS. Seriously, on a side note, I think that for film music, Mac is the standard.

I have both. I do most of my graphic design work on my Mac. I also use it for my primary internet computer since it's not so prone to the viruses out there. Ocassionally though, there will be something on the web that doesn't jive with the Mac (some automated submission forms, computer games etc) and I'll switch to an older PC we have just for that stuff.

My husband built a new custom PC for dedicated audio and video editing which we never use for internet. We used to use MAC for editing until he built the new one. It's really powerful.

You know, the most important thing about how a computer functions for you has more to do with the person running it and their capabilities than the machine itself.

Isn't this topic about to change drastically now with the new hybrids coming out.