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A self discovery song. Technically, you are the only one that gets across the river. Without you, the passenger is stuck on the other side.
You own the river, in this way.
Other people might provide the same service seeing your success, so must be mindful of the fee you charge, size and comfort of seating, maybe a tea service, etc
Oh Bill............... don't pretend you don't know what that phrase means.
it means.. when you help someone else, just for sake of argument.. another songwriter....you both get to have success, so in one sense it looks like you're helping someone else, but in reality... doing something nice for someone else does great things for you.
Because, if you were trying to cross the river yourself............ and you help someone else.. you BOTH get there.
Let me work on it , I'll have chorus by end of business day Wednesday. Hook .Rowin you across is rowin me through. Something like that. We need the chorus , then see where we can take vere's , if hook works for you
Last edited by bennash; 12/24/2502:12 AM.
We’re all built from the same dust and dreams, Different roads, but the same means.
Have writers a special mental skill in thinking word pictures or metephorically?
Example: Is crossing the river a metaphor for something…..like what? Obstacle on a journey
We all must’cross the river’ at some point in our lives…you hadn’t planned on the crossing at this juncture in your life, but you did it anyway, because everyone will have to eventually, now done and happier for it.
My brain wasn’t thinking the river metaphor.
Having said that, i have to say who doesn’t love a good metaphor in a song.
So I hang around JPF, maybe learn something…see if I can spot a good one now and again and maybe even write a bit better. I like the tip to put furniture in story build! Bill
Kay-lynn, I think what you’re trying to express in this song is that helping someone else isn’t charity — it’s alignment. That goodness has momentum. When you pull, push, lift, or row for someone else, life pulls you forward too. The beauty is, you don’t do it to win — but you win anyway.
There are a lot of real-life story angles that could magnify this idea. For example, the songwriter story: two broke writers in a rundown Nashville apartment. One has a connection, the other has the song. One introduces the other to a publisher, the song gets cut, both names end up on the record — neither crosses alone.
Or the working-man version: a farmer, rancher, or mechanic helps a neighbor whose truck breaks down or barn burns. He gives up his Saturday fixing someone else’s mess, misses his own work — and later, when his life falls apart, that same neighbor shows up without being asked.
Or maybe a mentor story: an older guy teaches a kid how to play guitar, fix engines, throw a curveball, stay out of trouble. Years later, that kid saves the old man’s job, writes him a check, plays guitar at his funeral, names his son after him.
You probably want the chorus to keep repeating the river image — simple and unforgettable. Things like: - River - Oars - Two shadows in the water - Getting wet together - Same shore, same sunrise (which almost sounds like “same time, same dream”)
Something that leaves the listener with that quiet “yeah… that’s how life works” feeling.
When you row somebody over troubled water You don’t come back the same as before You carry their weight, you feel it in your shoulders Every mile makes you want it more If you’re gonna save a soul, you gotta cross too Rowin’ you across is rowin’ me through
See if that works for ya Kate-lynn , Can't sleep anyway
We’re all built from the same dust and dreams, Different roads, but the same means.
Ben, really nice imagery — especially “you don’t come back the same as before” and the physical weight in the shoulders. For this song idea, I’m leaning toward a shorter, more chantable chorus. But there are some very strong lines in your chorus.
This is what I’ve come up with so far. I have no idea if this works or not but I kind of like it. Merry Christmas everybody!
[hyper-modern production with clear vocals, no autotune, Dolby Atmos mix, high-fidelity, high-definition audio and wide stereo]
[Instrumental Intro]
[Verse] Two broke songwriters, third-floor walk-up room Coffee gone cold, still chasing a tune You had a melody, I had a name to try Both of us hoping we could touch the sky
[Verse] You played it on that old beat-up Martin of yours Said, “It ain’t much, but it’s honest, that’s for sure” I called a friend who could help us get in Never guessed that favor’d turn into a win
[Pre-chorus] I thought I was helping you chase your shot Didn’t see the miracle we’d caught
[Chorus] When you row another person across the river Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works Two hands on the oars, same song, same shiver Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works
[Break]
[Verse] A few months later, heard it on the radio Your name and mine right there in the show We laughed in the car, shook our heads with a grin Funny how helping someone’s the way you both win
[Pre-chorus] I thought I was helping you chase your shot Didn’t see the miracle we’d caught
[Chorus] When you row another person across the river Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works Two hands on the oars, same song, same shiver Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works
[Bridge] You don’t do it for the money or the fame You do it ’cause you’d do the very same Turns out helping ain’t a losing game It’s just two hearts pulling the same way
[Interlude - chanting] Whoa-oh-oh, oh, that’s how life works That’s how life works
[Final chorus] When you row another person across the river Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works Two hands on the oars, same song, same shiver Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works
[Outro – fading chants] Whoa-oh-oh, oh, that’s how life works Whoa-oh-oh, oh, that’s how life works
[Verse] Two broke songwriters, third-floor walk-up room<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<I would just say writers by line 3 they know it's about songs Coffee gone cold, still chasing a tune<<<<<<<<<<<more likely the beer went warm. (fact) You had a melody, I had a name to try Both of us hoping we could touch the sky<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<this line could be stronger.
[Verse] You played it on that old beat-up Martin of yours Said, “It ain’t much, but it’s honest, that’s for sure” I called a friend who could help us get in Never guessed that favor’d turn into a win
[Pre-chorus] I thought I was helping you chase your shot<<<<<<<<<<<<<<I thnk the listener can discern what's going on Didn’t see the miracle we’d caught
[Chorus] When you row another person across the river Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works Two hands on the oars, same song, same shiver Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works
[Break]
[Verse] A few months later, heard it on the radio Your name and mine right there in the show We laughed in the car, shook our heads with a grin Funny how helping someone’s the way you both win
[Pre-chorus] I thought I was helping you chase your shot Didn’t see the miracle we’d caught
[Chorus] When you row another person across the river <<<<<<<<<<<< would it be better When you row another person cross the river? ) Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works Two hands on the oars, same song, same shiver<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<love this line Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works
[Bridge] You don’t do it for the money or the fame You do it ’cause you’d do the very same Turns out helping ain’t a losing game It’s just two hearts pulling the same way<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<two hearts? I was imaging two guys writing so that's just me being wierd
[Interlude - chanting] Whoa-oh-oh, oh, that’s how life works That’s how life works
[Final chorus] When you row another person across the river Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works Two hands on the oars, same song, same shiver Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works
[Outro – fading chants] Whoa-oh-oh, oh, that’s how life works Whoa-oh-oh, oh, that’s how life works
Rob that chorus is seriously killer!!! Did you write that in one day???? wtf? It times as 3:44 so might need to take out the breaks or pre-chorus. not sure. I'm gonna live with it overnight and reread the lyrics but man that melody on the chorus is great too! (did you write that?)
Yeah — once I have a clear idea in my head, things sometimes come together pretty fast.
In my first post in this thread I was really just trying to nail down what you were going after thematically. At first I felt a little like Bill, rowing someone across the river — once you explained it, though, the message clicked.
That first post took me a while to write, but it was worth it because that’s where the line “yeah… that’s how life works” came from, which ended up becoming the title and the anchor for the whole song. Once you confirmed I was on the right track, the lyrics came together pretty quickly.
I know you tend to spend a lot of time tweaking lines — I’m kind of the opposite. I usually write it down, live with it briefly, and then move on. So I appreciate you pointing out a few weak spots — honestly, if there are only a couple, that usually tells me the song’s in pretty good shape.
Originally the chorus was longer and the pre-chorus was twice as long too, so it’s already been trimmed a lot. I’m leaning toward dropping the pre-chorus entirely now, but I need to see how that plays with the melody Suno came up with — I really like what it did here.
And thanks — glad the chorus and melody are landing for you.
ohhhh what a great hook...that's how life works....just want to hear\sing that over and over...
and it is right into what K was trying to bring to life
Thanks, John — really appreciate that. Glad it’s landing the way Kay-Lynn intended. That kind of feedback is always helpful. What I basically did was use Kay-lynn's line out of her first post here "When you row another person across the river" and then I added the line I wrote in my first post in this thread "Yeah, that's how life works" and repeated it. That was pretty simple and apparently it worked. I then used it in the interlude and outro and that's what really makes it sticky/catchy.
Two broke writers, third-floor walk-up room The beer's gone warm,and it's not even noon You had a thought and I had a melody maybe we can make a memory
Two broke writers, third-floor walk-up room The beer's gone warm,and it's not even noon You had a thought and I had a melody maybe we can make a memory
Yes. I'm beginning to understand this a little better. I did a stream of writing exercise not caring rhyme, meter meaning, etc.
ME i'm there you are not you need help in this regard i carry the day knowing you may not learn to row right away or tow the line but some day see it would be nice you know this and appreciate that i show this then, now you know how to row and i have a new connection YOU
what drives altruism? giving to get something?
I was once where you are now I go easy You take time Eventually lives align.
Alright, here’s a revised version with some new lines. I also dropped the pre-chorus, which makes the song some 20 seconds shorter, more radio-friendly. Feels good to me at this point — would love to hear any thoughts.
[hyper-modern production with clear vocals, no autotune, Dolby Atmos mix, high-fidelity, high-definition audio and wide stereo]
[Instrumental Intro]
[Verse] Two broke writers, third-floor walk-up room The beer’s gone warm, and it’s not even noon You had a thought and I had a melody Maybe we can make a memory
[Verse] You played it on that old beat-up Martin of yours Said, “It ain’t much, but it’s honest, that’s for sure” I called a friend who could help us get in Never guessed that favor’d turn into a win
[Chorus] When you row another person across the river Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works Two hands on the oars, same song, same shiver Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works
[Break]
[Verse] A few months later, heard it on the radio Your name and mine right there in the show We laughed in the car, shook our heads with a grin Funny how helping someone’s the way you both win
[Chorus] When you row another person across the river Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works Two hands on the oars, same song, same shiver Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works
[Bridge] You don’t do it for the money or the fame You do it ’cause you’d do the very same Turns out helping ain’t a losing game It’s just two hearts pulling the same way
[Interlude - chanting] Whoa-oh-oh, oh, that’s how life works That’s how life works
[Final chorus] When you row another person across the river Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works Two hands on the oars, same song, same shiver Yeah, that’s how life works, yeah, that’s how life works
[Outro – fading chants] Whoa-oh-oh, oh, that’s how life works Whoa-oh-oh, oh, that’s how life works
ok............................. jumpin in............. For some reason I heard a couple guys singing this song. I think this music is a little to "ballad" sounding. I'm thinking this song could apply to the farmer who helps the other guy bring his crop in, (not that that line should be in the song).... but it "could" be (wink).
Those female voices sound too "sweet"........... I was hoping for something more... come on guys we can get this done sort of melody.
I’ll try to preserve the melody and production that are already working, but I’ll experiment with a grittier vocal tone and more forward momentum within that framework and see how close I can get.
Actually the farmer reference would not be bad for the bridge, because the bridge your using is just re-stating the obvious. Maybe the bridge could be used to re-direct the listener (the ones who aren't writers) to something more universal?
You don’t do it for the money or the fame You do it ’cause you’d do the very same Turns out helping ain’t a losing game It’s just two hearts pulling the same way
***** Every songwriter in nashville has that line in a song about not wanting money or fame.
When the baler breaks down right before the rain And there ain’t enough daylight left in the day Neighbor shows up with a half-worn grin Says “hook it to mine, we’ll get it back in”
not "this" ... but something "like" this? Take it or not........ up to you buddy
Maybe the farmer is listening to the song in his tractor while he's helping someone out and just grins cus he already knew the reason for the song.......
Farmer Jack was singing along out there in the hay field 10 miles long turns down the song and turns around an smiles he's been pulling his buddy's tractor for last 8 miles<<<<< last 3 lines song slow.. then big build to the chorus
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