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How many times do I have to say I agree criminals like this should be deported.?
Marty, I am no idiot. I fully realize my opinion in the matter means squat. I am not a voter and I do not live in the USA
But it is part of the larger political discussion here so I chime in.
My position is that what the President, Mr Trump AS President...says and does...is important . It has caused a huge rift. He once again doubled down on how he perceives Canadian sovereignty. This has a huge effect here.
Mr Trump has shown his policy is that if you want to beat a dog, you can always find a stick. Since he is also positioning himself as unrestrained by laws..that is a toxic recipe. Call it TDS if you like.
If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop
How many times do I have to say I agree criminals like this should be deported.?
As long as you continue stating support for positions here, that will be conducive to criminal aliens committing criminal acts in the United States...I suppose you may want to say it again.
Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Marty, I am no idiot.
I know. I don't think that you are. Truthfully, I do believe that you have a psychological need for liberal narratives to be right, even when they defy practical realities. But that's a gene or something. I like and respect your intelligence.
Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
I fully realize my opinion in the matter means squat. I am not a voter and I do not live in the USA
Thank you for making that clear. I had wondered if you realized it.
Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
My position is that what the President, Mr Trump AS President...says and does...is important . It has caused a huge rift. He once again doubled down on how he perceives Canadian sovereignty. This has a huge effect here.
Trump is a disruptive rift in the entire world. Timing, fate and destiny decided that he would be. So yeah, Trump is a political middle linebacker.. FWIW2U, I wish he would shut up on the Canadian State noise. I don't know why he doesn't. But as a practical matter, it's comedy. You Canadians should throw tomatoes at Trump billboards and laugh at all the trash talk. Please realize that the US invading and occupying and subjugating Canada is not realism.
Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Mr Trump has shown his policy is that if you want to beat a dog, you can always find a stick. Since he is also positioning himself as unrestrained by laws..that is a toxic recipe. Call it TDS if you like.
He knows that he is restrained by laws. He also knows that laws, interpretations of laws and courts are political. Like other presidents, he is defying them and seeing how the response in the courts play out. Roberts puffy response was hollow.
I doubt that you minded or protested when Obama did exactly that with Health Care and border security. When Trump does it, you can't sleep at night. Try to relax.
Tony, I try to ignore your posts. But this one was too inviting.
Climate Change" In 1977, (48 years ago) Voyager One was launched. It is now beyond our solar system (Passed Pluto) and into interstellar space. NASA is still receiving signals. That's beyond belief. The scientific community that did that will have no trouble using mathematical models to calculate the volume of the earth’s atmosphere, a reasonable estimate of the carbon gases in it and the resulting effect. Taking the bet that, that community is 100% wrong on global warming or anything else is a 100% bad bet. You got this wrong.
"White Supremacy" White Supremacy membership is overblown by leftist politicians who use it for a pumped up bogeyman, in order to save their constituents from the bogeyman, and get their vote. However, there is no question that White Supremacy organizations exist.
"Covid Shutdowns" Solid realistic basis for getting people away from each other when cruise ships were docking with multiple corpses, but it became a tribal battleground and was distorted. Now it is an idiotic battleground that I try not to think about.
"Sexual Ambiguity" Even Rush Limbaugh stated that you can look at some people and know that they were genetically pre-determined to be gay. Is that ambiguity or malfunction or just the way that it is, or all of the above? 30 trillion cells in a human body, give or take. If you have 30 trillion Y chromosomes, you are male. If you don’t think that you are, that’s a separate issue.
"Political Correctness" Agreed. A distortion of reality that finally hit the wall and created a fervent backlash.
"Global Unity/Morality" Say what?
“Clean Energy” Wrong. There will be clean energy. It is a process to get there. Joining the Paris Accords and creating a slush fund for 3rd world dictators was just a circle jerk for fools. Elon Musk, Toyota, MIT and others are the way to clean energy.
"Secure Borders" Finally, but for how long?
"Overpopulation" imho…WRONG. In 1850 when the American Civil War started there were 1.2-1.4 billion people alive on earth. Less than two centuries later, the total exceeds 8 billion. The planet is choking.
"New-age Democracy" Who cares?
"Uni-Theology" Unlikely. The zealots in all camps are too territorial and warring to allow it. The unquestioning will follow them into holy wars.
"Progressive Enlightenment" Conservatives keep the lights on. Progressives (liberals) question why they cant be brighter. When unleashed, Conservatives produce repressive societies. When unleashed, Liberals produce degeneracy and chaos. Every once in a while you get a reasonable balance.
If I robbed your house and filled your children's heads with hateful lies...
Would you forgive me if I claimed my intentions were sincere?
I don't have any children. And you already try to fill my head with hateful lies. But to you, they are somehow truths, and only the lies of others are hateful.
That is why, I broke a rule and offered you a different viewpoint to some of what you posted.
If I robbed your house and filled your children's heads with hateful lies...
Would you forgive me if I claimed my intentions were sincere?
I don't have any children. And you already try to fill my head with hateful lies. But to you, they are somehow truths, and only the lies of others are hateful.
That is why, I broke a rule and offered you a different viewpoint to some of what you posted.
Amazing that people still engage with japov even in song. He gets treated better than I ever have here.
Marty was spot on. As somebody who has gay members in my extended family tree, it's so freaking obvious that there's no choice.
The Bible is flat wrong, IF it even says it.
Only choice somebody has to ignore themselves and try to appease the rest.
Some people are proud of it others are ashamed. High suicide rate amongst gay teens
By the time they know it they are already formed.
Is it odd?; yes, and two guys kissing is gross to me. Then again some butt ugly straight people have same effect on me
Two girls never bothered me at all lolllllll
But seriously Tonys brain is cole slaw
And we should have hundreds of other things to make a stance on
Lol DomDom... You make it sound like I hate queers... Is there something you'd like to get off your chest?
I've said it before; I don't give a damn who you're having sex with, I only care about who "I'M" having sex with!
I'm not gay. So, why SHOULD I care?
The alphabetasexuals keep trying to make their problems "MY" problems! That's just rude! They should keep their 2% minority politics out of my marriage and away from my kids!
Dom, you would probably have a "different" attitude if, on your birth certificate..., your WOKE parents identified you as an "androgynous love gift" the day you were born.
Why don't queers celebrate God's acknowledgement of their existence despite His disdain?
Why don't heterosexuals march in the streets celebrating diapers and breast pumps?
Why ask why? Again, I don't give a damn.
("And we should have hundreds of other things to make a stance on...") No $hit!
Amazing that people still engage with japov even in song. He gets treated better than I ever have here.
Marty was spot on. As somebody who has gay members in my extended family tree, it's so freaking obvious that there's no choice.
The Bible is flat wrong, IF it even says it.
Only choice somebody has to ignore themselves and try to appease the rest.
Some people are proud of it others are ashamed. High suicide rate amongst gay teens
By the time they know it they are already formed.
Is it odd?; yes, and two guys kissing is gross to me. Then again some butt ugly straight people have same effect on me
Two girls never bothered me at all lolllllll
But seriously Tonys brain is cole slaw
And we should have hundreds of other things to make a stance on
Lol DomDom... You make it sound like I hate queers... Is there something you'd like to get off your chest?
I've said it before; I don't give a damn who you're having sex with, I only care about who "I'M" having sex with!
I'm not gay. So, why SHOULD I care?
The alphabetasexuals keep trying to make their problems "MY" problems! That's just rude! They should keep their 2% minority politics out of my marriage and away from my kids!
Dom, you would probably have a "different" attitude if, on your birth certificate..., your WOKE parents identified you as an "androgynous love gift" the day you were born.
Why don't queers celebrate God's acknowledgement of their existence despite His disdain?
Why don't heterosexuals march in the streets celebrating diapers and breast pumps?
Why ask why? Again, I don't give a damn.
("And we should have hundreds of other things to make a stance on...") No $hit!
You were doing ok till you blew your cover...
Calling them queer is an insult meant to be one
Why don't queers celebrate God's acknowledgement of their existence despite His disdain?
Why don't heterosexuals march in the streets celebrating diapers and breast pumps?
Why ask why? Again, I don't give a damn.
("And we should have hundreds of other things to make a stance on...") No $hit!
God's Disdain? How the fack you know what God has Disdain for?
If he's a loving God, he's having a bad day with gays.
Chopped green cabbage, grated carrot, finely chopped purple onion and Clausen dill pickle, Mayonnaise, prepared horseradish, black pepper and a splash of lemon juice... DELICIOUS!
Rob, That is not true. The most current reporting month has inflation under 3%, but the FED remains worried about it because of the US economic condition at this time. I'm not going to debate things that I know not to be true. That's time wasted.
Beyond that;
I know nothing about Germany other than a handful of things that I've seen in the media stating that their economy was in trouble. KTM bankrupted so I did a little reading on that. Though Austrian, there was mention of regional concerns in some of what I saw.
I also know that the Nazi invasion of Russia and the subsequent Battle of Stalingrad... and the subsequent invasion and partition of Germany by the Russians... was not even 100 years ago...and that such animosities don't go all the way away. That makes both the Germans and Russians particularly prickly and adamant when it comes to a peace deal after a recent Russian invasion. That is undoubtedly tainting the German view of Trump, in addition to his insistence that the EU pay up for NATO participation.
And from what little I have seen, Germany has its own internal conflicts and struggles with the rightward swing on the Western Civilization pendulum.
Marty
Marty, You are right, with Trump the FED is more worried about inflation than previously. Other countries envy the US for their strong economy. The FED still has two rate cuts planned in 2025 despite Trump talking about a recession. Trump has to be careful and should stop playing his tariff games because that could wreck with the US economy.
I don’t agree with everything you wrote about Germany. Animosities between Russia and Germany did not exist for decades. My neighbors were from Russia and we were best friends. In fact, before Russia invaded Ukraine, Russia was one of Germany’s biggest trade partners. Just a few years ago Germany was totally reliant on Russian natural gas. Remember the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines? In 2019 Trump was against Nord Stream 2. These were his exact words: “Nord Stream 2 is a tool Russia is using to support its continued aggression against Ukraine. Russia seeks to prevent Ukraine from integrating more closely with Europe and the United States. Nord Stream 2 would enable Russia to bypass Ukraine for gas transit to Europe, which would deprive Ukraine of substantial transit revenues and increase its vulnerability to Russian aggression.” These were Trump’s words. Amazing. Marty, I'm sure you have a logical explanation why he doesn’t talk like that anymore.
But now, Trump actually wants to open Nord Stream 2. His new plan is to lift sanctions against Russia, Russia to agree through a US-led consortium to resume gas sales it cut off during the Ukraine war, and Germany to allow the gas to flow to any potential buyers in Europe. The plan would in theory give the US unparalleled sway over energy supplies to Europe. Trump will probably say that Russia will be dependable because trustworthy Americans are in the middle of it. America would collect money for nothing. Wasn't he against Russia bypassing Ukraine for gas transit to Europe? That, my friend, is undoubtedly tainting the German view of Trump. Germans accept the 2% for NATO because that’s in the contract. For your information, Germany reached the 2% level under Biden, not Trump.
I am not informed enough to debate nuances of Trump vis-a-vis Ukrainian / German / Russian relations. I have hit the I-dont-know wall on that. I can't debate the details of Nordstrum with you. I have little knowledge of it at all and no idea what is fact and what is propaganda.
But I was born in Birmingham Alabama and lived there until I went off to UTexas/Austin. There are people down in Alabama still feeling and living the Civil War.
Similarly, Imho, prospects for victory for the Nazis in WW2 ended at Stalingrad. Imho WW2 was won at Stalingrad. It was a Gettysgurg/Picketts charge turning point.
Per Google Gemini 800,000 Axis casualties at Stalingrad. 1.1 million Soviet Casualities at Stalingrad 40k civilian casualties at Stalingrad.
All in, 1.9 million casualties. Death beyond belief. Maybe the deadliest battle/campaign in human history. I'm glad that you and your neighbors get along, but that kinda stuff dont go all the way away. It lurks beneath the surface for a long time. That is why Putin talks about Nazis in Ukraine in order to rally the Russian people.
When he did that, I thought that was an odd thing to say about a country in the lineage of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth which was one of few European countries not hostile to Jews across the middle ages/ Renaissance...but...Putin said "Nazi" and it got traction.
Our US forefathers warned against foreign European entanglements. Russia / Ukraine is in the lineage of the prototype of what they meant.
My hopes are that peace is achieved.
As for tariffs, don't count Trump out on making that work.
Hi Marty, I actually thought you would give me some logical reason why Trump's stance towards Ukraine has completely changed. Marty, I don't blame you. Nobody can explain it. The Germans aren't used to politicians acting like that. They don't understand how so many people could vote for someone like Trump. But, he's not their problem, he's America's problem.
That kind of stuff that you described actually did go all the way away. 6% of the German population speak the Russian language. Even Merkel spoke russian with Putin. There was nothing lurking beneath the surface. Believe me, absolutely nothing. I grew up there. On several occasions I was supposed to go to Moscow to train Russian colleagues and help them win deals. I never went because I grew up during the cold war and I have an American passport. I would never go to Russia. Would you? My German colleagues were happy they could go instead. For your information: there are no Nazis in Ukraine. There never were any. It is really sad that our leaders spread lies and tons of people believe them. That's not only happening in Russia and America but all over the place. Putin doesn't talk about Nazis in Ukraine anymore. That was a lie. Apparently, the Nazis in Ukraine are gone. Putin has his list of countries he wants to invade. I just read Lithuania is next on his list ... in 2026. It looks like he wants to test Trump/the Nato.
As for tariffs, they won't work for Trump. The whole world will teach him a lesson. Trump won't get it but the American people will feel it and the US economy. I'm still waiting to see what happens when the first Social Security checks don't go out on time. Do you get a SS check?
I was a high school wrestler. Yesterday Trump entered the 2025 NCAA wrestling finals in Philadelphia.
This was not a KKK rally or an angry mob at a tractor pull. Collegiate wrestling fans are generally hard working, clean living, decent people who wrestled themselves or kids are on teams.
Watch the video and look at the reception. You have your issues with Trump and you want everyone to hate him just like you do. But they don't.
These people in the video will give you some idea of how much many people like what Trump is doing.
On deportations of killers. On refusing go full-on into the Russia-Ukraine conflict On defying judges whose courts were picked precisely because of their political-ideological bias.
And, I did not say that there were Nazis in Ukraine. I said that Putin got traction saying that there were, and that is hard to understand how he could if that assertion is completely baseless. I personally suspect that there are some neo Nazis in every country in Europe. Do you contend that there are none in Germany?
Lastly, you just read, Where?. that Lithuania was Putin's next invasion target.
Watch the video and look at the reception. You have your issues with Trump and you want everyone to hate him just like you do. But they don't.
These people in the video will give you some idea of how much many people like what Trump is doing.
Hey Marty, I watched the video. Cool. I'm aware of the fact that half of the Americans voted for him. He's a famous TV star and the President. In my previous post I gave you just one reason why Germans don't like him.
Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
On refusing go full-on into the Russia-Ukraine conflict
He may be making US borders more secure but he surely isn't helping America's allies keep Europe's borders safe. And nobody is blaming him for not going full-on into the Russia/Ukraine conflict. But now he is intentionally weakening Ukraine. Putin now knows he can take all of Ukraine.
Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
On defying judges whose courts were picked precisely because of their political-ideological bias.
Why isn't he defying the Supreme Court? I can't follow your logic.
Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
And, I did not say that there were Nazis in Ukraine. I said that Putin got traction saying that there were, and that is hard to understand how he could if that assertion is completely baseless. I personally suspect that there are some neo Nazis in every country in Europe. Do you contend that there are none in Germany?
I have to correct my previous statement where I said there are no Nazis in Ukraine. There may be a few, just like in the US and in Russia. But that is not a reason to invade a country and Putin isn't talking about them anymore. Putin even once said Selensky was a Nazi leader. Yes, there are still Nazis in Germany. Musk is backing the Nazi-oriented party in Germany. Can you tell me why he is getting involved in the politics of foreign countries and supporting the Nazis?
Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
Lastly, you just read, Where?. that Lithuania was Putin's next invasion target.
t-online.de They are closer to what is going on in Europe. Putin has a list of countries he wants to take over. A bunch of Eastern European countries including eastern parts of Germany are on that list. That's why I wrote those lines in my song "Shadows On The Border": If the eagle folds its wings and leaves the world to fate - Who will stand against the storm before it is too late?
You start every statement with why people should hate Trump, get rid of him and change the course of the United States to your selected course for it. But a lot of people do not hate Trump. They like what he is doing.
You go into laborious detail about why Trump should be concerned about allies in Europe who have let the US pay for their security for decades and are now throwing a fit because Trump is putting an end to a free ride.
I live in Texas. The biggest threat to the quality of my life is not Putin and Russia. It is the crime in American cities and the Narco warlords who have formed their own self governing Narco city states complete with militias just over the border. That is happening 400 miles +/- from my house. (My house is 6000 miles to Kyiv.) They have controlled the border...until TRUMP. As important as that is to so many Americans, you never mention it.
Step back and look at what you are presenting in this country. Your presentation and priorities are a good part of the reason that Trump was elected.
My suggestion: Ukraine and Russia share a border and hate each other, except in the East, behind Russian lines, where allegiances are mixed. The people in the US are wary and weary of the prospects for another foreign war in a place on the other side of the world that most Americans could not find on a map. The people in the US are wary and weary of the prospects of going full-on to stop foreign invasions that haven't actually occurred. The people in the US are wary and weary of being summoned to foreign wars that have trapped us in sh+t too many times now.
Trump is trying to get the dying to stop and being forced to heed the realities of an entrenched battled-hardened Russian army on the Eastern border. An army that invaded and set up during Biden/Harris.
Hope for his success. At this point, the reality is... that is the only good prospect out there.
Marty, I see we continue to agree to disagree. I’m not sure stopping the dying is Trump’s highest priority in Ukraine, otherwise he would help them continue to defend themselves until a ceasefire is in place. In my opinion he’s after the money. Ukraine is rich in minerals. He wants the minerals without going full-on into a conflict. If he wants the minerals, he’ll have to be prepared to fight for them. He wants to earn money off Russian natural gas sold to Europe without taking any risks. That won’t work. If someone pays you money, they expect something in return.
One other thing: as far as I know, no NATO country got a free ride. I know what you mean but I hate the way you describe it. Most of them are now paying their fair share but Trump wants more. He’s now talking about 3.5%. It’s all about money. Not about people, friendships, allies. In previous battles, troops from other countries fought side by side with Americans. I see, that’s not worth anything to you.
But your previous statement is still worrying me:
“Many people like Trump on defying judges whose courts were picked precisely because of their political-ideological bias.”
Trump picked judges of the Supreme Court precisely because of their political-ideological bias. If he is defying the Supreme Court then we have a dictator. Are you saying all judges must be Republicans or what is the message here? According to the election results the country is divided, but 36% of the Americans didn’t even vote.
Marty, I see we continue to agree to disagree. I’m not sure stopping the dying is Trump’s highest priority in Ukraine, otherwise he would help them continue to defend themselves until a ceasefire is in place. In my opinion he’s after the money. Ukraine is rich in minerals. He wants the minerals without going full-on into a conflict. If he wants the minerals, he’ll have to be prepared to fight for them. He wants to earn money off Russian natural gas sold to Europe without taking any risks. That won’t work. If someone pays you money, they expect something in return.
One other thing: as far as I know, no NATO country got a free ride. I know what you mean but I hate the way you describe it. Most of them are now paying their fair share but Trump wants more. He’s now talking about 3.5%. It’s all about money. Not about people, friendships, allies. In previous battles, troops from other countries fought side by side with Americans. I see, that’s not worth anything to you.
That is your narrative Rob. Not likely more than that.
Trump has no plans to fight for minerals or anything else in Ukraine. As far you you know, no NATO country was riding without paying? Check that again. The reality is that the world is largely about money and always has been...and PHUQUE EWE for attempting to boil me down to someone who does not value allegiances. What I dont value is parasites who want Americans to come die in their wars for any reason that they come up with. Friendship, duty, God, apple pie, whatever. ...
and if the Americans refuse, here comes the guilt train. And Ukraine is a country too corrupt to even be offered membership in the EU or NATO. With the exception of Canada, our "allies" also supply us with most of our enemies. If it means that much to you, pick up a gun, fly in to Ukraine, and go fight the Russians.
You have yet to mention any concern at all for the United States southern border and my personal safety.
Originally Posted by Rob B.
But your previous statement is still worrying me:
“Many people like Trump on defying judges whose courts were picked precisely because of their political-ideological bias.”
Trump picked judges of the Supreme Court precisely because of their political-ideological bias. If he is defying the Supreme Court then we have a dictator. Are you saying all judges must be Republicans or what is the message here? According to the election results the country is divided, but 36% of the Americans didn’t even vote.
Rob
You're ignorant of American history and I dont know what your point is. American presidents have challenged the courts throughout. This last guy is a district court judge cherry picked in a Washington state district court because of his ideological activism and the certainty that he was in-the-bag for the filers.
Trump is defying his CLAIMED authority to demand the planes be turned around. YOU and I have no clue what the outcome of this will be until it reaches a higher court or SCOTUS. If SCOTUS rules that the judges order to stop the planes should have prevailed, or they refuse to hear it because they feel that it was sufficiently argued in a lower court... and Trump continues to defy it then he will be functioning as a dictator. Until then that's just Hair-on-fire lunacy.
Trump is fulfilling his promises made to tighten the borders and a host of other things and his actions are definitely resonating among his supporters
I understand that but he is doing a lot in a hurry with his use of explicitly stated and assumed expanded executive power.
Congress is left out of things, the Senate is doing and saying what?
Chief Justice Roberts rebukes him and Trump says he did not mention me by name, so I can continue to rebuke and ridicule and lie about a Federal judge like I did before
But he deported 230 criminal terrorists plus if reports are true 1 formner soccer player from Venezuala who had sought asylum and happened to have a soccer\Real Madrid tattoo that qualified him for the ride and imprisonment.
It was this "due process" Justice Boisvart was looking for I think and simply someone Holman calls "collateral damage"
To Europe
The conflicts beteen between Germany and Russia is a history of 751 years of treaties between them that apportioned lands between them. The Teutonic Knights ...Germans, expanded into the eastern baltic areas and were famously defeated by Alexander Nevsky in 1274. In between lay what is now Poland and Eastern Europe and the The Baltic Nations the Ukraine, which for much of the time was ruled by powerful families who owned their lands as sovereigns.
Everything changed after WWi then again in WWII and Stalingrad was definitely a turning point that defeated and depleted German forces to the point that you could say it was over then and there and the rest of that war was German retreat with more losses. With American help, Russia forced Germany back to Berlin, while the combined forces of other Allied Powers came at them from the south ...and the west.
Never again through The Marshall Plan and Nato, the US and its European allies ....vs The then Soviet Union, which included much of what is now the area between Russia and Germany
There is a lot of history and living together in Eurasia and south into the Meditteranean and Asia Minor.
There is understaning of the strategic importance of its rivers, seas...in this case The Black Sea and the Baltic Sea, its ports, geographical resources and strategic geographies.
Peace in the Ukraine is a deserved end for its people who have fought and died for the ideals of freedom for the Ukraine from outside aggression by Russia which began with the annexation of The Crimea and escalated with Russia's move into the area roughly in a line between Kharkiv and Kerson that allow control over the lower part of the Dnipro River eastward over all of Ukraine's industrial heartlands.
The Crimea is a triangle penisula that also encloses The Sea orf Asov which has its own history back to ancient Greece, where for 2000 years a Greek city Chersoneses, existed.
For many hundreds of years it was the held by Ghengis Khan's descendents through The Golden Horde and the Crimean Khanate until forces under Catherine the Great took if for Russia in 1794 After WWII it was administratively transferred to the Ukraine which now has internationally recognized sovereignty over it since the disintegration of the Soviet Union.
The area Russia is coming after now was historically part of The Ukraine, and was actually why Crimea was transferred I suspect if you look at the geography.
More importantly, this area has important river mouths and ports on both the Sea of Asov and on the other side of the Crimea runs the Dnipro
All leading into The Black Sea. No accident the Donbas and surrounding areas are as they are. The Steelworks in Mariupol will be remembered and stories will be told of the valour of its defenders Where it will end up is important to an economically endowed Ukraine, and losing rivers and ports and strategic locations such as powerplants is not replacing strategic mineral deposits in value and potential
How will it end?
Bartering interests on many levels that we can only speculate about but it in the end will be filtered through Putin and his advisors, Zelensky and his Advisors, and Trump through his advisors as final arbiters.
A United Europe in its individual countries, including Germany, France and its Brexit neighbour UK and the rest of the world will also have its say and sway.
I expect that includes China. Their Belt and Roads initiative and US takeback of influence over the Panama Canal by taking over the ports on both sides has definitely impacted their influence over their trade routes. I expect there is diplomatic communication and back channel communication going on.
The end result will be the end of a grueling war that will have a Treaty of Insert Name Here that will likely see the Crimea and more Sea of Asov ports gone but maybe not the Dnipro
That would put Russia in a position of great economic power with important links east with China and west to Europe. It does not need Europe's geography just important rivers into the Black Sea.
That is what Putin is going for.
Historically, the past 751 years, it has all been about where Russia's border with the Ukraine begins.
And it will once again end up where the strongest interests and capablest minds take it
I do not know how it will end up, but I can see the bones the big dogs are fighting over
If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop
History over centuries is hard to boil down into a few paragraphs. I don't know how accurate your historical account is, but I suspect that it is defensible. FWIW2U, that means that I'm incline to believe it, because you presented it.
Whatever the details may be, there is a lot of history and specific culture to deal with.
In 2025, there is a large entrenched Russian army there, that is not going away with a slap on the hand. So...what force will it take to beat it back? Answer: A big one. What will be the unintended consequences? Upwards to a nuclear war.
Right now, one thing that you can get a lot of Americans to agree on, regardless of party or ethnicity...is that foreign wars suck. I've personally stood in line ordering lunch twice, behind young disfigured Black men in wheel chairs wearing Marine tee-shirts, who struggled physically to make payment for their lunch. It's painful to watch.
I also know that your average American doesnt really give a damn about these far-away television wars or the remaining lives of the two Marines. They care about what car they drive and how many "likes" they got. But the Marines are doomed to live disabled lives.
And there is always someone ready to load SOMEONE ELSE'S American relatives into an airplane and send them 6000 miles away to get shot up.
As I said to Rob, The best actual option possible is that Trump et al gets the killing stopped. Putin will not stop unless he keeps some land. So the choice is to accept that reality or pursue another one.
As for future aggression, Americans are not going full-in to stop what might happen in Eastern Europe.
As the crow flies, it is 348 miles from Moscow to Kyiv. It's further than that from my house to Amarillo. (Amarillo is 598, still in Texas) Large parts of the Ukraine are in rubble. The war has been going on for 3 years and there are hundreds of thousands dead. Putin has a large battle-hardened army entrenched in the east.
If Putin does not gain something to show the Russian people, he is not going to leave. What do you suggest be done? What will be the mission goal of your suggestion?
Form your suggestion around a solution that excludes US Treasury money (debt), US weaponry and US soldiers. Limit it to Canada and Europe.
Told you before I do not know what will happen only what it involves.
Winner ends up with the most rivermouths to the Black Sea, extending its reach from across the entire present Ukrainian Sea of Asov northern shoreline from the top of the Crimean Peninsula. then an even bigger winner if it can control or at least find a natural border on the Dniper.
What must the Ukraine give up for peace?
Crimea is not historically Ukrainian yet has internationally acknowledged sovereignty via Ukrainian independence from the Soviet Union.
I expect the importance of it and the status of Sevastopol and a Russian Federal City with lots of military facilities and Russian military history will not become Ukrainian. It is inconceivable to me that will be part of a post treaty Ukraine. How many Sea of Asov and Black Sea ports Russia ends up with is keeping eyes on the prize.
Best outcome IMO is Ukraine keeps the Dniper and Black Sea to the beginning of the Crimea and as much of its Asov coastline it can, though I am not optimistic here
From such point It is important to know this is where Russians and Ukrainians met to work in an industrial heartland made possible by these rivers
They are populated by ethnic Russians who see being de facto Russian as their preferred outcome and who have an Orange Revolution history with their countrymates.
So Ukraine keeps its Dniper River basin and Black Sea coastline to the Crimean border and from there up ????
Ukraine will\will not not be allowed to join Nato?????
No weapons domiciled there that could reach Russia????
Lots of important bones for the big dogs to growl over and I have no idea how it will end
Don't think bigger war will break out if things fall through...
Bigger sanctions and likely more military support and action until one side cannot endure any longer.
If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop
Told you before I do not know what will happen only what it involves.
John, Without direct involvement and security clearances in US, Russia and Ukraine, you and me can't know. Not a good start to a plan of action. The only plan seems to be to get the US on the hook for a show-down proxy war. Not my vote.
Let me tell a story about the olden' days.
Back in the 80s, there was this theocratic personification of all that is evil named Ayatollah Khamenei. We were told that his theocratic state had a master plan to subjugate all of the people in the world to something called Islam.
We supplied a benevolent warrior for ten years in a stalemate border war to defeat this monster. That warrior was Sadam Hussein.
But then that warrior invaded our good friends the Saudi Arabians and the Kuwaitis. And the benevolent warrior became the personification of all that is evil. And we were told that by our friends the Saudis and the Kuwatis that he must be stopped.
So we went to war and fought shoulder to shoulder with our good friends the Saudis and defeated the monster. But it was a play nice war so we stopped at the border and said, "dont do it again."
But then, the World Trade Center was attacked by some yahoo militants who studied how to take off jet airliners with no concern for how to land them. And 15 of 19 of them were Saudi Arabian nationals. But of course, none of them had any connection whatsoever with the good Saudis, our friends and the lovely people that we see over there today.
But the US was wounded and pissed. We were told that Sadam had collected nasty weapons of mass destruction and that he must be invaded again and stopped. The US told Sadam that we needed to come in and see anything that we wanted to, and Sadam said F-off. Wrong answer. So we bombed him out, invaded and decided to democratize his country.
Many people in this country are weary with such scenarios.
Trump would have known what the Saudis really were and would have said that the US will come get them their country back, but we are taking some oil fields for doing it. Rightly so.
And now there is Ukraine et al.
Let Trump do his thing. At the moment, it is the only good thing going.
khomeini would unlikely have come to power but for a joint CIA\MI5 engineered coup that put the Shah back in power, who then with the US armed and trained SAVAK secret police ruled Iran un til the Student led revolution that also saw an occupied American embassy..one btw Canada helped evacuate.
Had Iran been allowed to continue at the run of the fifties under the rule of a prime minister and parliament with a nationalized oil industry, who knows what Iram might look like today?
Yes 911 changed an awful lot in this world and the US was struck for a bucnh of reasons but responded maginificently
Yes that was a question posed to Saddam in captivity. Why did you just say allow us to verify you had no WMD
He said that as its national leader, it would be irresponsible for him to say he did not have any
From a book I read by one of his interviewers
If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop
No I think I got the point that there is a lot of mistruth and plain lies in war and switching alliances also happens as events unfold ....and all comes out of USA pockets....and that has to stop
I just pointed out there is a more important history there that you overlooked that was the cause of Iran's development into a theocracy that set your narrative into motion
If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop
I'm aware of the shah, and the Balfour Declaration and several antecedents. I am well aware of the bent that some people have to make the US the bogeyman behind ever screwed up thing that happens in the world. I have a college buddy who has a radio show dedicated to that premise. We talk.
The US is a superpower. As such, it's geopolitical foes are Russia and China. They all do bad things. As did the Ottoman Turks. As did the Kaiser. As did the British. The world is a dangerous place and always has been.
The middle east, shah or whoever is a much more oppressive place than Texas and always has been. It remains so.
But still, that is not the point. As imperfect as the US is, it's a lot better than most countries. The US armed forces and the Atlantic Ocean provide 43 million Canadians safety, that allow you all to keep your soap boxes and chimerical liberal viewpoints in good working order. SideNote: Canada's population is slightly larger than California's.
But, a bunch of us in the US are tired of being told who is the next guy to hate, and where is the next faraway place for Americans to die. 5 years ago, if someone said, name 50 countries where Americans need to die saving "democracy," Ukraine would not have made the list. They cant even get in the EU.
If you and Rob feel so strongly about getting the Russians out of Ukraine, grab a gun and go. I suspect that they will get you out to the front. If not, then join me, watch, and see if Trump can get the bombs to stop.
If he is not able to satisfy Zelensky, then they can fight on and you all will still have the opportunity to fight along side of them. If the US gets in and pins the Russians down over a battle for Ukraine, it is possible that the nukes could come out and the Chinese could get involved. (Though I doubt that the Chinese would die for the Russians.)
The three of you would get into an argument over an MRE and shoot each other!
Yeah right Tony. We're the fumdux and you're the enlightened genius watching from a lofty perch.
That's comedy.
Keep in mind, that as I write these things, my emotions are not yours. The only time I've been a little angry was when Rob turned it a bit personal.
A'hemmn...
Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
This is songwriting site. There are much better places to get much better information about the state of the world and it's economies than here.
Brian Would you please grant my request and eliminate my account from JPF.com. I donated $300 bucks and from my side of the table, I mistakenly thought that I would be assured that no more base insults would be allowed to come my way and incendiary topics would be eliminated, leaving only songs to talk about.. That didn't happen. It's on me for misjudging the outcome.
At this point, all I would like for my $300 is to have my account deleted from JPF.com. I am not mad. Just through challenging what goes on here.
But here is the backstory, I like to discuss politics. It is interesting and in 2025 actually makes a difference in my personal safety. But I consider political/religious discussions and your presence as the death knell of this songwriting site.
Brian told me that if I didn't like it, to leave. I decided, what the hell, if the owner of the site doesnt care if it is being destroyed, why should I?
And now, this songwriting site is the ONLY PLACE that I have open political discussions, which for the most part, I enjoy... with John, and Rob when his panties don't bunch up in his butt crack.
This songwriting site is the ONLY PLACE that I have open political discussions, which for the most part, I enjoy... with John, and Rob when his panties don't bunch up in his butt crack.
And you, I try to leave alone.
Marty
That's probably for the best, Marty. My brilliance is hard to control...
LOL I gotta wear shades when I read your posts here Tony, they are so bright. That hue in the light is telling by the way. Sometimes I think you're just throwing a dumb thought spanner into the mix as a joke Dunno, perhaps this all bores you Maybe for a change let your brilliance get out of control?
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That's probably for the best, Marty. My brilliance is hard to control... [/quote]
If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop
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