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I've seen this mentioned on threads that no new music can be created any longer (being limited to only 12 half-tones). It may be true for mainstream music, but not for music in general - especially classical and creative pop music. Composing is far from coming to an end. Break from the usual chord progressions. Don't be afraid of dissonance. Dissonance can be a trusted friend. Maybe I'm off-kilter in my opinion, but that's an idea in itself.
One of the greatest guitarists on the planet tried something different. I find it cool, but most people would think the radio was on no channel with white noise
Being different just for the sake of being different isn’t what I mean. Music needs to be intelligible. It needs form. A random blur of jamming doesn’t constitute music. You’re example of being different is simply noise. Not valid as intelligible music.
"You just repeated what I said. That's what you did here" - Fdemetrio
Oh, is this what you said Fdemetrio: "Being different just for the sake of being different isn’t what I mean. Music needs to be intelligible. It needs form. A random blur of jamming doesn’t constitute music. You’re example of being different is simply noise. Not valid as intelligible music".
I agree with what you say JLS...just look at Stravinsky....errr listen to him. Eventually people understood what he was doing with form and structure and rhythm and he had a tremendous influence on modern music.
So random noise out...UNLESS it makes sense otherwise
Oh and 12 factorial is just over 400 million unique combinations.....so yeah...no excuse
If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop
I agree with what you say JLS...just look at Stravinsky....errr listen to him. Eventually people understood what he was doing with form and structure and rhythm and he had a tremendous influence on modern music.
So random noise out...UNLESS it makes sense otherwise
Oh and 12 factorial is just over 400 million unique combinations.....so yeah...no excuse
Thanks John! Always good to hear from people on the same planet as me.
"You just repeated what I said. That's what you did here" - Fdemetrio
Oh, is this what you said Fdemetrio: "Being different just for the sake of being different isn’t what I mean. Music needs to be intelligible. It needs form. A random blur of jamming doesn’t constitute music. You’re example of being different is simply noise. Not valid as intelligible music".
I must have missed you saying the same thing.
FD In order for any piece of music to be recognized as music, and somebody says " hey I hear music"
It has to be similar to any other music.
Sure you can go wacky and and intentionally try to choose something weird or off kilter, but why?
JLS Being different just for the sake of being different isn’t what I mean. Music needs to be intelligible. It needs form. A random blur of jamming doesn’t constitute music. You’re example of being different is simply noise. Not valid as intelligible music.
As I was thinking (oh man I am dangerous when that happens) ....the 12 factorial assumes all notes are available at all times....but as western music likes its songs in coherent keys, it becomes
8 factorial = just over 40,000 unique combinations
add say one dissonent note in your song
9 factorial = just under 363,000 unique combinations
be daring and add 2
10 factorial = just over 3.6 million unique combinations
Conclusion?
Dare to dissonate
If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop
As I was thinking (oh man I am dangerous when that happens) ....the 12 factorial assumes all notes are available at all times....but as western music likes its songs in coherent keys, it becomes
8 factorial = just over 40,000 unique combinations
add say one dissonent note in your song
9 factorial = just under 363,000 unique combinations
be daring and add 2
10 factorial = just over 3.6 million unique combinations
Conclusion?
Dare to dissonate
Then you factor in the duration of each note and their octaves - endless possibilities.
No I didn't understand a word you said , Dance all over the fretboard , Ok you pros explain what I did. My theory is use the fancy chord. But I like what you said , don't analize it , just get er done. Which I do. I get bored with country songs , So the instrumentals are a nice break from hillbilly songs.
the problem with me I forget what I did about 10 minutes after it done , memory loss , or lack of interest . To much theory leaves me dry , I'm kidding I know some on it , What ever resolves from one chord to the next works for me .
As I was thinking (oh man I am dangerous when that happens) ....the 12 factorial assumes all notes are available at all times....but as western music likes its songs in coherent keys, it becomes
8 factorial = just over 40,000 unique combinations
add say one dissonent note in your song
9 factorial = just under 363,000 unique combinations
be daring and add 2
10 factorial = just over 3.6 million unique combinations
Conclusion?
Dare to dissonate
Then you factor in the duration of each note and their octaves - endless possibilities.
Lol... I agree with a bit of dissonance. But, what's left when you subtract everything that's considered "a-tonal"?
"Infinite Possibility" probably sounds a lot like what Dom posted...
Yes, was it deBussy who famously said "music is the space between notes"?
Has been a long long time since I took a university "bird course" called "Music Appreciation" that covered off eras, composers, distinguising factors etc...
Lot of listening....
If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop
Yes, was it deBussy who famously said "music is the space between notes"?
Has been a long long time since I took a university "bird course" called "Music Appreciation" that covered off eras, composers, distinguising factors etc...
Lot of listening....
Yes it was John. And Gershwin wanted to take lessons from Ravel. Ravel refused. He told Gershwin "If I teach you, you'll be composing poor Ravel instead of good Gershwin.
I agree with what you say JLS...just look at Stravinsky....errr listen to him. Eventually people understood what he was doing with form and structure and rhythm and he had a tremendous influence on modern music.
So random noise out...UNLESS it makes sense otherwise
Oh and 12 factorial is just over 400 million unique combinations.....so yeah...no excuse
Yes, that seems like a lot right? But with millions of tracks being added to streaming sites PER DAY, it far surpassed 400 million a long long time ago. Not to mention ALL the music already created plus the stuff that is being made with computers. A site like Suno could generate far more than 400 million variations in days. The worry was always machine covering all 400 million and then copyright claiming everything. And we see that happening on Youtube where scam artists are claiming people's original works because of such databases already existing, and stealing their advertising income. The laws are way behind and will never be rewritten in favor of small creators. Super computers will be making 98% of music within a year or two. That is even with humans expanding how much they are making as well. The result is likely going to make suing for infringement impossible unless lyrics are what is stolen.
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks
"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney
"Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
Hey Brian! I imagine most AI generated music falls in the realm of the seven closely related chords. In other words, millions of songs with "sameness" in common. There are so many more possibilities when music breaks from the expected.
Hey Brian! I imagine most AI generated music falls in the realm of the seven closely related chords. In other words, millions of songs with "sameness" in common. There are so many more possibilities when music breaks from the expected.
Best, John
I agree when it comes to sites like Suno, hat is absolutely true. I have been able to it to play in keys I ask for, but forcing chord progressions can only happen when you upload your original music, which I do most of the time. I wrote a Christmas song and Halloween song for my Granddaughter, however, without uploading music. I knew what I wanted to hear and in both cases got pretty lose but not exactly. I have also noticed I have unique voicings for nearly everything I play, and the A.I. wants to change them to predictable versions. I never thought much about it until I hear my songs, in my voice and playing style, but with more predictable chord voicings etc. and it was WEIRD!
But most music is still made with computers using DAWS and humans making all the choices. This new tech is really nothing more than a new language to create music. Instead of notation, it is more about midi selection (whether played with a midi instrument like me) or just drag and drop into a DAW. But what difference does it make what language is being used. If I hand wrote like Mozart or programmed midi notes to play my composition, how is that really any different? I realize you may squablle with the "recording" but a composition, is a composition.
By the way, A.I. can only currently do popular music. It SUCKS at doing classical, soundtrack (that aren't synths) and can't do strings (outside of acoustic guitar or banjo). In fact, it's inability to do ANY string sounds is a bit shocking. But I have yet to hear it even try though sampled strings are used all the time. It is odd.
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks
"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney
"Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
"Dare To Dissonate!" I want that t-shirt JV! Despite thousands of years of composition and improvisation The Human Phenomenon has not exhausted the possibilities. Billions of Songs are now in the documentation devices, on paper, recorded, and more no one's ever heard. Despite all that, someone, somewhere, somehow, will write a new Song, and many people will hear it and say, "I like that. That's a good Song." I heard The Sugarbeats from Ashland, Kentucky sing "Papa writes to Johnny, but Johnny Can't Come Home" and recycled it as "Paparazzi Jonnie, calls me on the phone! Wants me to come home! She says I've been gone too long.!" Only the first six Notes copy the Melody. The Storyline has no resemblance. But we recycle those progressions, those keys, those 12 (or 8) Notes, and they get new combinations, even if limited to 40,000 possibilities it's still a whole lot of room to work with.
There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
I think it was one the Big Band era composers who warned an aspiring 'student' who asked for lessons, "I can teach you, but once you lose your ignorance, you can never get it back." In our ignorance we, children in age or 'children' in comprehension, tinker with an instrument, or our voice as the instrument, and create interesting if not wonderful music, Melodies that 'work', please the ear, despite not knowing the 'rules', music theory, how to write it down on paper. Music is a phenomenon of nature. Carl Sagan says, "The Universe hums in B Flat." The Notes have predictable intervals, a 'periodic' Repetition. I was wondering about the Periodic Table of Elements, whether calling it 'Periodic' meant that it had regular Repetitions on an atomic level. It's there, like the tree that falls in the forest, making a sound whether there is any Human there to hear it or not. It is not dependent on Human cognition or 'use', Repeating what Mother Nature does all by Herself, humming in the Universe, 'sounding' in birdsong, bees' buzz, the flow of water, the rush of wind, the footsteps of animate beings. It's there. It exists. Music exists. Some people have perfect pitch. Tell them to sound a Note and they can, proven by then hitting that Note on a piano key. There is 'news' of people tuning down from 440 Vibrations Per Minute to 432, claiming it is more 'in tune' with Mother Nature. That B Flat of the Universe might be a 440 Vibe. I don't know. And maybe 432 is more akin to the Human mind than the entirety of Nature. It's all mystery worth exploring. Meanwhile, enjoy your ignorance, the reward of emoting with sounds, with words, without words, with an instrument, or just with your vocalization. There will always be another Song to be written. Someone will write it. We'll hear it and masses of us will find it appreciable, that 'new' Song, that new wine in old bottles.
There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
Lyrics... That's right, Gary. That's where originality truly lives. Thought process, choice of words, personal experience, emotional effect; These things will always be just as unique as fingerprints.
And even if song structure is all becoming very methodical, every performer (especially singers) will still have their own unique tone, inflection, and style.
LOL I actually looked "dissonate" up to ensure it could be used that way.
Lucky for you, you can find a website that will print you a custom Tee. Choose a font and have at it. I expect you can create complete look in an image file, upload it, and print it Go via Amazon and there's a wide selection of vendors.
Now that I am semi retired, I've recently been creating visual art via electoric images that I print on to acrylic and metal. I send them a .png file and they send me back framed art which I am making available for sale People seem to be taken by it and I now have work for sale now a small gallery, and I am looking at 2 more I can show my work to. Never know if you don't take a shot
Point is you can print almost anything you want to on to anything you want to these days.
If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop
I think it was one the Big Band era composers who warned an aspiring 'student' who asked for lessons, "I can teach you, but once you lose your ignorance, you can never get it back." In our ignorance we, children in age or 'children' in comprehension, tinker with an instrument, or our voice as the instrument, and create interesting if not wonderful music, Melodies that 'work', please the ear, despite not knowing the 'rules', music theory, how to write it down on paper. Music is a phenomenon of nature. Carl Sagan says, "The Universe hums in B Flat." The Notes have predictable intervals, a 'periodic' Repetition. I was wondering about the Periodic Table of Elements, whether calling it 'Periodic' meant that it had regular Repetitions on an atomic level. It's there, like the tree that falls in the forest, making a sound whether there is any Human there to hear it or not. It is not dependent on Human cognition or 'use', Repeating what Mother Nature does all by Herself, humming in the Universe, 'sounding' in birdsong, bees' buzz, the flow of water, the rush of wind, the footsteps of animate beings. It's there. It exists. Music exists. Some people have perfect pitch. Tell them to sound a Note and they can, proven by then hitting that Note on a piano key. There is 'news' of people tuning down from 440 Vibrations Per Minute to 432, claiming it is more 'in tune' with Mother Nature. That B Flat of the Universe might be a 440 Vibe. I don't know. And maybe 432 is more akin to the Human mind than the entirety of Nature. It's all mystery worth exploring. Meanwhile, enjoy your ignorance, the reward of emoting with sounds, with words, without words, with an instrument, or just with your vocalization. There will always be another Song to be written. Someone will write it. We'll hear it and masses of us will find it appreciable, that 'new' Song, that new wine in old bottles.
That is a great point. I made way more interesting music before being surrounded by pro musicians, pro teachers, pro critics, pros at every job, for the past 30+ years. Now I have to dig deep to be half as original as I was when I just made it up. Every pause looking for the "right" note is 10 more note combinations I will never play instead.
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks
"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney
"Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
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