JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Brian, a suggestion...

Brian, I have a suggestion for you.

In an effort to get more participation here, what would you think of creating a monthly song contest section.

The categories could alternate between:

1) Songwriter lyrics, vocal and one instrument, no drums
2) Songwriter lyrics and AI vocal and instrumentation
3) Songwriter lyrics and any combination of vocal and musical production.


No completely AI generated songs.

There could be an accompanying section/thread where the monthly winners were displayed.
That would give a site visitor a place to go to see what is produced here, And hopefully attract some new participants.

A moderator/host could suggest a theme/topic every month.
And no, I don't want to be a judge. I prefer being a contestant.

Marty

How do you try for participation, but limit who can participate.

and naturally if 3 people enter, you have a great chance at winning.

and winning it would be equal to kissing your sister.

The lack of participation is because not everybody has the tools or gear to record, not everybody has the talent to play and sing it, your taking away an asset writers have, who are not perfomrers.

No band in a box either? hysterical how we dont hear about Band in a Box any more

Dom
The goal is to do something productive that encourages participation and hopefully encourages people to return and new people to engage. As well as the few of us that are active now.

The site appears to have undergone a transition. The dysfunction has been tamped down, cordiality has returned and the atmosphere is more conducive to this site’s best purpose, which is, being a social club for amateur, hobbyist songwriters.

Brian has employed some algorithm that apparently has greatly increased visitations. That gives you (and anyone else), an opportunity for more people to see songs that you produce and participate with theirs.

Songwriting site + monthly songwriting contest, seems like a natural enough fit.
It may not work, but it's worth a try. A site plagued by pointless arguments certainly wasn't working.

Yes, but i have never seen songwriting contests really matter. the muse used to have them, and it was such hogwash. Buddy system,

Im not against it, i just think it wont last even if it worked for a try or two.

One problem the site has is people only posting their songs and not giving a [naughty word removed] about anyone elses. I see it all the time

What you need really, is a rehaul of honesty, credibility.

My suggestion, Brian's decision.

As far as an overhaul of honesty and credibility?...cordiality with a light touch should work fine.

For your consideration, Manpussy Mr Lyde...

https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=14854262

Cut your songs and promote them . Why would any serious artists rely on forums ?
Bitch and cry about the music industry and worried about 3 comments on forums , silly . Waste time on endless AI , debates , The only people that know what's really going on..are shark lawyers for Sony and AI sites , dialing for dollars in In god we trust court rooms.

Guys,

We have had 8 Awards cycles. The largest in 2009 had 560K songs entered from 185 countries and over 10K judges helped us do it. Our last Awards was in 2020. We still had a good amount of music, 230K songs and 17.7K albums. Then Covid hit and the world changed. It has not returned. Venues closed. We used to do 200+ live events a year in 100+ different cities. We even had meet ups for message board users because the community was active enough to have dinners and shows and workshops just among active users here in a lot of cities. This was mostly all before YouTube, Instagram, Tik Toc and Facebook became the norms.

For us to even consider having a "contest" even just a monthly "message board" version, it would have to be a large enough entry pool to justify doing it. I also do not want to equate a contest with a handful of entries against our history of 100 Genres for both albums and Songs and our smallest Awards, was the first in the 1997-2000 cycle, which still included over 1100 albums and 14K songs entered. To measure up to what it took to received recognition in those, we'd need at least a few hundred entries to justify it and we are just not there.

Additionally, if the quality of entries wasn't there in a genre, we didn't have the genre. As we grew we used to require a minimum of 100 Albums submitted within a specific genre, (and we'd find the songs within that genre from those alums as well as other genres where someone had a deserving song within the parameters of that genre. If we do the awards again, I likely would not consider it viable without at least 10K albums submitted. From that, we'd figure out how many song and album genres we could have. Year one we had something like 17 genres, give or take (without looking it up). That means we had at least solid entries to fill 20 deserving nominees in each of those genres. Even back then, about 40% of the music was eliminated in round 1, the it continued to get whittled down until we stopped with at least 16 nominees plus ties (songs within the margin of 5 votes). Unlike the industry the point was to promote worthy music and boost artists careers. Those nominations meant a LOT, in large part because we had plenty of well known names in every cycle competing including people already famous, already with hit songs, already winners of Grammys (or nominated) as well as Emmys, Oscars and pretty much every other music award and contest that existed. But ours in 2009 was the largest music awards of ANY kind ever conducted. And we did it all 100% for FREE! You simply had to use a real name, address and contact info to enter (wand we never used those contacts for any purpose except to send out awards after we finished, and to simply do our best to be sure people entered in their own name. Before final nominations came out, we verified that those folks were real. I don't believe we ever had a single "anonymous" entrant, though there was 1 nominee we could never find, which isn't bad with 10s of thousands of nominees over the years.

All that to say, if you collectively can wrangle even 100 people to enter, I would consider doing something, but it would be clearly not connected to the official awards programs of the past. And frankly, if the quality of entries can't produce at least 20 worthy of recognition nominees, it would be the last time we did it on a small scale. It takes a LOT of entries to find enough quality most of the time.

I will say, if we do a large awards again, I would have an A.I. "Genre" because in 20 years, 99% of music on a mass consumption level, will be made using A.I. throughout. The technology is already pretty amazing if you know what you are doing. I have been uploading old songwriting sessions where we didn't finish the entire song, and using A.I. to learn how we sounds, then to extend essentially OUR playing to a finished song. It's a struggle that keeps getting better almost by the day. I haven't heard any of the A.I. tracks by any of you, but if they are sounding as good as the results I am getting, I bet there are some bangers.

The vocals are simple writer demo quality, but the feel of the song and the lyric content has potential. If that groove was submitted to A.I. and developed into a full blown track and pro-vocals it certainly has merit. Even as is, it has merit. I'd say it is a 5 out of 10. I understood the viewpoint of the song (and it seems to apply to reality, regardless of your political view) it has an edge that is cool. If the vocalist had power to push out the emotional vibe of the song, and the lyrics included more detail (as it is kind of 1 shot of emotion without development or advancement of the theme). You don't mention any examples of lies, you don't talk about the effect, so the listener hears 1 thing, someone lied to you or to everyone (you don't even make that clear).

All that said, this is the start of an idea that needs development. But it isn't without potential or merit. A song should tell a story with at least a begging and end, or it should discuss emotion and why you feel that way and where you go from there, or even how it effects the world around you and the world inside you. It could also be a call to action against the liars. I have a song doing just that I am working on.

So, as a finished song, it is a 4 or 5. It has a mood, an atmosphere, but the vocal isn't strong enough to give me a reason to revisit it. If it was a wrenched our emotional vocal, it could tell a story of a broken person from the lies. But this feels more political than emotional exchange with 1 person and it never offers clarification. As a stub of a song, something most writers have lots of, there is something there to build from add to and develop. It is like making a MOVIE. You have a simple premise "angry man is fed up with the nonsense in the world" then you develop it into the film "falling down" (great movie that feels so legit today). This song is that first premise note. Now fill in the story, takes us from the start to finish, teach us something, share an opinion, make a call to action or make it a charact5er study. Maybe HE is the liar who is lying to himself. All these things are possible from the stub of an idea. So work on it. You have version 1.0 here.

Brian

The whole legal battle isn't remotely about artist rights being trampled on etc... that is all a bull![naughty word removed] smoke screen. The labels and publishers want a piece of A.I. ownership. Nothing more or less. Just like they sold out every songwriter and artist they represent, the will take a % of these A.I. companies and then let them rape and pillage the music any way they want. Why? Because this IS the future and it isn't going away. If the labels and publishers do not secure a big chunk and a big say over this technology (and they will force these companies to agree to terms that will be a forever barrier to new companies wanting to compete just like Spotify has done) because if they do not get it, their power will shrink to zero in a generation and these corporate overlords will be out on their asses. They will NOT let that happen. So in the end, artists and writers will 100% get shafted far worse than they think they are now, and the dagger will come from their actual representatives from the publishers and labels, just like it did with Spotify.

I predicted all this in a several essays back in the mid 2000s. A couple I published in my column in Singer Magazine. These labels and publishers are losing grip and they will stop at nothing to keep power. Due to the nature of this technology, the harm they will cause after these cases inevitably settle will be earth shattering to creative people as we once knew them. It democratizes the music making process so that just about anyone with a little creativity can easily produce pro-level material and we will see nobodies with middling talent having massive success that would make Taylor Swift blush.

We already have lost the concept of "bands" and now what we have is "producer teams" taking those roles. It is a group of collaborators who do all the work on the backend, then hire or create a front artist to play the songs live (and in most cases, tech is "playing" the songs and the folks on stage are pretending) We see that now with the Eagles. Don Henley is lip synching and the band is using a locked down synch track/click to keep time with an actual auto-tuned recording live. He has destroyed any reputation he may have had and has entered full blown "poseur" mode. He might as well be in a Karaoke Bar on lip-synch night. But he is grifting or $1000s a seat! Sick...

I don't know Tony. It doesn't do anything for me. Maybe you can talk Brian into a co write.
If not Brian, maybe Jelly Roll


For some reason it does bring to mind another song and title.

" I never keep my promises"
Maybe you can do something with that.

Wasn't the point really on AI . I could careless on who's fighting who....or what their points are
The point was to promote your own songs , I don't care if you used AI to not, either do fans .

I guess so. Maybe

Maybe is a word if you can't make a choice . Yes or No . it's pretty easy really . no is easy , bitch and moan about the music industry , excuses and all the bullshit . Grow a set . Caveman come back . Song contests , that's pretty funny cash.. cows for owners . Ka Ching .

Very true, bands are gone, it's been that way a while, home tools gave people the idea to do it all themselves, when it used to take a highly talented team to make great records.its all about singer bow

The Jpf awards, were the single only worthwhile thing going on in songwriting online.

Be great to bring that back, with a suggestion, make the results casual. Don't list everything at once.do your top 10 country, top 10 rock, pop, folk etc, and keep narrowing it down

Creates suspense and keeps people following it, as opposed to running away when they didn't win.just an idea.id gladly offer my ears to the process

Maybe so.

Brian nailed it actually.
This IS a work in progress... on another site.

Well then Tonester, give my regards to the other site.

And a nod to my muse...

By the way,
The Rant Arena has got 25,000 hits since you "canceled" it, Mr Lyde...

People like being astonished and outraged Tony. It has become a national pastime. So yeah, no surprise that the rant Arena has got some clicks. But this is a songwriter site and if I a section dedicated to arguments outrage and hyperbole gets the most clicks here.. this site is on suicide watch.

The only thing dying here is the truth...

Best of luck with that.

Nobody has songs to share, that's problem right there regardless what side stuff u talk about.

You see old visitors post their latest then run away...

But there's maybe 10 regs here, 3-4 write at all.

Not a sustainable model

The truth?

This is a songwriting site for predominantly amateurs. THAT is THE TRUTH.
I come here to see if anyone has upped a new song.
I am not looking for "the truth" here.

There are a bazillion websites where you can find people adamantly professing the truth,

When I come here, I hope to find a song that I can find something to truthfully compliment the author about.

That is the truth.

The song that you posted above was not such a song.

Sorry
Marty

kicks ass Tony , a little to formal for Jelly Roll
Promote it , only the grave is waiting, Welcome signs of dirt . 2 bucks or 10 bil , your dead

Can't speak the truth, can't sing the truth...
Have it your way, Mr Lyde.

Lol... I know, Right?

What truth ? , it's over rated . Come up with some bullshit in a song . Drive to Safeway , Watch another stupid movie on Netflix . Well enough on this song , let's write another bullshit story . Well sex in a truck is out by a river by the moonlight . kinda old for all that. Probably get a cramp , kick it out of gear , kill both of us. she was a virgin is always a nice touch . Oh your thinking about the world and lose your soul , what world , I live in hillbilly town with cats .

Who can I steal another lick and melody from ? Well a movie on Grass valley Calif has potential , rob him blind , take all the credit. that's mine .

What you 55 years old ? 30 % left my friend , I'm at 10% left. Party over you're dead .

[u][/u]
Brian

I was travelling on a motorcycle for the last 4 weeks, until yesterday. I didn't want to try to respond to this with a phone.


I don't see this kind of scale here. I don't know who all the visitors are from one day to the next, but the day-to-day engagers are a small number.
I envision a handful of participants in a song contest that might hopefully grow into a larger handful of participants.

If it beat trillion-to-one odds and a bazillion songs showed up...?
Then, limit it to the first 25 entrants.

An INVITATION post
" write a song in any genre about "the Love-of-your-life"...that did not happen."

Another VOTING post (in the same thread)
"I Marty aka Sunset Poet hereby attest and swear that I am who I say that I am, and furthermore am not of sane and stable mind.
Inasmuch as the aforementioned is presumed to be true, I cast my single vote for
"She/He/They Was An A-hole Anyway."

You count the votes and find it to be a runaway 5-3 victory for "She/He/They Was An A-hole Anyway."

All in the same thread. EZPZ. If or for some reason, it does not work...then it didn't work.

Think of it more as a local social club than a large international enterprise.

Your call.

Marty

For the record:

I'm not a "serious artist."
I am a passionate hobbyist.

So I am here, and places similar to hear.

But if you hear of any major labels looking for a 72 year old boomer who writes and sounds like me, please put in a good word.
I'll give that a shot.

Marty

For the record:

I'm not a "serious artist."
I am a passionate hobbyist.

So I am here, and places similar to hear.

But if you hear of any major labels looking for a 72 year old boomer who writes and sounds like me, please put in a good word.
I'll give that a shot.

Marty


Why do people when the hit a certain age have to mention all the time how old they are ?

16 years old to 90 , it really dosen't matter . Everybody thinks majors live some charmed life , I kinda doubt i... Puff Diddy with billions is going to prison .

Because,

Like it or not, deny it or not, pretend it away...it is a factor...in everything.
Biden didnt want to believe it either.

Biden ? oh no politics. They're all puppets . Rothchilds and Waltons run the U.S.

Wife and I are planning to move from Houston. Crime has gotten too bad to stay.
Top contender was Bentonville (Bella Vista), Arkansas.
Presumed to be quaint and rural-ish.

Spent two nights there on the way back from Boston.
Very little quaint. Lots of hustle, bustle, booming building activity and traffic everywhere.
Mexican mafia rumored to be 17 miles away in Springdale and meth-cookers all up in them hills.

And living there with no connection to Wally-world would be tantamount to moving to Salt Lake with no connection to LDS.

Crossed it off list.

funny stuff , I'm 71 -years old , I suppose a lecture is coming ...is what that kid your talking to expects

My co-writer lives in NC , power is back on , whatever town he's in. it cost me 150 bucks to stay in Hotel my uncle owned 40 years ago for 3 hours as Wild fires burned 10 miles away , All good now .

No lecture, but you did not need to remind me that you were 71.
Because of the many times that you have stated it on this forum in the past. lol.

In other news...
If I understood correctly, your home dodged a wild fire. I'm glad to hear that.

Actually you reminded me you were 71-years young lol , it's 10% of life left . give or take a % mark . Yes old people love the lectures they give , that they never listened to.. except maybe Joe Besos and Elon Musk, they listened , with a towel that cost more then my net -worth . I doubt Joe buys off Amazon , just a guess .

I imagine nothing had changed with majors , Young very good looking artists , and a big following before they're signed .
With 98 trillion artists on the net , a big budget to get above the noise .

Yes we dodged a wild fire . the south gets crazy storms ,we get wild fires .

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/C0h0PSpIIeQ