JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Update on site and donations!

Hi Folks,

We got enough donations to continue. Here are some comments.

1. If anyone understands SSL Certification for websites, please get back with me. Apparently after 25 years suddenly we have to start paying another $125 bucks a year (on top of the hosting and domain fees) to simply exist. All those stupid warnings were meaningless. It was just a shakedown for more money. The site is no more or less safe with the SSL certificate.

2. Always remember: You have given no personal info to this site. We do not track you or your info like nearly every other site online. Our cookies only track what pages you have viewed and remember you so you don't have to log in. We do not have access to anything about you or your use of this site. Your cookie only talks between you and the program that is this message board and unlike most sites, they are voluntary. Every site in the world, including the US Government, Facebook, Google and everything else can get hacked. In fact, those sites get hacked millions of times a day! In 25 years, we have never once been hacked. Why? Because we have nothing for the hackers to gain. No info is stored. Passwords can easily be reset by us even if they were stolen. The worst thing they can do is crash the board, but in most cases, the host site has a backup. You are never at a risk here that you aren't under everywhere else, and frankly, as long as you use a unique password on each site, even if they stole your password here it would be harmless to you.

3. We raised $515 dollars from 13 people. I am deeply appreciative of those who stepped up and there were even a couple of new people who chipped in. All the money we take in goes directly back into the site.

4. This has motivated me to re-engage here. I have long neglected the message board because like most of you, I am sick of the bickering. I am cleaning up the nonsense on the General board. I am also going to monitor it going forward more closely. It is my fault for this neglect so I will fix it. See the next comment.

5. No more political bickering outside a single official post. If you violate that rule, you will get a timeout. If you continue, the timeout will be longer until either it stops or I click the infinity ban. Outside of obvious bots, I have only banned a handful of people in 25 years. But if it must happen, it must happen. I have strong political views like most people, but this just isn't a productive place for that discussion. Few people are even rational in their views nor will they ever change their mind so it all just saps productivity. If most of the blowhards spent the same time doing something positive instead, a lot of the problems people bicker about would improve. If you see trolling etc. please send me a note and link to it. Let's clean this up!

I recently got a webcam and I plan to start using our Just Plain Folks Youtube channel again which I can then link here. I would love to relaunch a website (since we lost our original one when CDBaby shut down Hostbaby and they did not preserve our site as the promised). If anyone reading this has web knowledge and can offer advice, please send me a note.

I want to tie the message board back into our other social media accounts. I am looking for options to archive it as well as we have one of the only remaining histories of musicians in the dawn of the internet. Most boards have been deleted by corporations or shut down due to financial constraints. Our "history" is now in the hands of globalist corporations like Facebook. I'd like to preserve our community and the DIY music phenomenon that took place from the mid 90's until now. So I hope some of you remaining old timers will help out with a donation or even more importantly, some positive content to attract more folks to join us.


Brian

You should "pin" this thread and give us periodic updates on the site's financial situation. Also, let us know the cost of "major" updates... start a "dream pool".

Congrats Brian.

PS; I still believe the "Rant Arena" should be moved somewhere down below lyrics... Perhaps "Prophecy" as well. Creative Writing?

Just wondering how much the rent has gone up in this economy?

Do we need another fund raiser?

Seriously, this is my last rodeo.

If this site dies, that's it... I quit.

So, someone please make up my mind.

We take expenses as they come. We have spent as little as $1200 for a flawless year and as much as 23K when we were down for 9 months. I would LOVE to actually build NEW stuff here, but until we even cover the most basic expenses, let's start with that. So far this year we are at about $240. Tat is well below the bare minimum to keep going. If we can get to $1200, I will commit to another year. If not, then what is the point right? If we have a crash or other unexpected problem, it could cost us way more. At that point, short of someone stepping up with a couple thousand like S. McDonald did a couple years ago, there is no way I could justify keeping it going. If those folks who have been here for literally decades at this point without contributing a dime would stop being cheapskates, we'd be fine. It sucks for others to have to make up for it year after year, but you can see the names to know who has kept the lights on and who has been all take and no give.

Well, that's a shame...
Too steep for me.

Brian,
I've enjoyed the site and like having a place to put up a song. Your site is a habit for me. For my part, I'll be happy to pledge and give $300, but in all sincerity, this site has become mostly about arguments.

In my opinion, it makes little sense to contribute to a songwriting site where there are things like the rant section, political arguments, and interpersonal arguments that are allowed to go on and on, eclipsing the songwriting efforts.

So my pledge is contingent on a commitment those things going away and the trolls being told to shut it down.
Yes, I know that I have been a combatant often, but it is the only website where I am. On all other sites that I visit, insults are not allowed to fly at me, and I bother no one.

If my position seems unreasonable, I will ungrudgingly accept things the way that they are, but do not see the point in contributing money to something that is most likely going to flame itself out with off-topic vitriol anyways.

Very sincerely,

Martin

So, you want a site where he who pays the most gets to "dog pile" on whoever he wants, complain about whatever he wants, and crap wherever he wants?

Knock yourself out, Martydom.

$20 a year is all I'm willing to pay to waste time in your company...

I'll say again, "YOU ARE THE POISON KILLING THIS SITE!"
Good luck with it...

Brian

Tony was accommodating enough, to provide an on the spot textbook example of what I am not willing to contribute to.

That is an interesting response. Did you think it cost $10 dollars to upkeep the site? If not, then do you understand that it requires donation from multiple sources to cover it? We have literally spelled out the donations each year and increase the number with each new donation at the top. Some people give $20, some give $100, some give thousands. We hope it adds up in the end and I have personally covered the shortages over the years since the non-website part of the org stopped contributing. For the first 30 years, the folks NOT on the message board covered the cost of the board. With a few notable exceptions, it has mostly been two very different groups of people. The non message board people participated by attending live events during our tours, performing live at showcases or attending panels and workshops. Many thousands attended monthly showcases and song circles in our chapters around the world. Every activity we have ever done has been free outside our music awards ceremonies which sold tickets (though it was always free to enter the awards and you did not need to attend to win one as most winners came from 185 countries around the world so it would be impossible for most to attend anyway). I did live events from 1985-2015 and we did the awards up until late 2020. Only since then have we relied on the message board people to help pay the cost. Thanks to a few generous people (all listed on the the donations honor roll) and my own money we have kept it going. But the donations this year are still well short.

So yes, $20 dollars is helpful, especially if everyone who visits regularly donated something as well. I have never asked for a membership fee because not everyone can afford it. I used to pay the bills by keeping it free for members and having sponsors pay to associate with JPF. It worked very well pre-Covid, but since that time (really since about 2018) the money has dried up entirely and my health simply does not allow me to be on the road 9+ months of the year anymore where I sold Merch to help pay the bills. Us losing 100% of our income during the critical music awards process cost us our entire Org. savings (well into 6 figures) that I had put in bank to pay Org costs starting in 1985. I have never taken a penny of money from the org, and up until 2018, the org had never taken money it couldn't pay back from my family. That is no longer the case.

The bickering among users here ran off 90% of our regulars. That includes the worst offenders, but sadly it ALSO includes plenty of acrimony by folks like Martin. You can't call for civility enforcement when you have blood on your own hands Martin, which you admit to. I am not going to take sides with anyone where we have "rules for thee but not for me" style accountability. Every time I get complaints I find plenty of mud slinging on all sides. So if I ban everyone involved in the fighting, then all we have is non-registered users and a smaller number of people than it takes to have a community. The donors have obviously gotten no special treatment, and folks that actually make this a fun place like John Schick (among others) donate a LOT and never cause anyone any trouble at all, lose out because others are incapable of simply IGNORING trolls. This is my site and I have to ignore people I think are being ridiculous every day. It is called FREE SPEECH.

So Martin, should we delete everyone you disagree with, or just Japov? That is a serious question. Your $300 dollars could be the difference between keeping the doors open or not. Would you like the roll of disciplinarian? Keep in mind, at least Japov has shared his identity (though I have no idea who he is as we have never met) others seem to know, but if you want to get any NEW members, you have to let new people sign up meaning trolls get right back in and usually RAMP up their attacks and disruptions. It all seems easy until you have to make it work and keep the lights on.

If you two add another $320.00 that means we are already almost half way there. I am sure there are others who will help out as they always do in the end. But if I remove everyone who has had an argument here, you'd both be gone so then who do I turn too?

Remember, if you are a small part of the problem, you are still a problem right? On the otherhand, if you cleaned up your own behavior, then it would be WAY easier to hold others to account. But the people filing nearly ALL the complaints are always rolling around in the same mud as those they complain about. If no one argued constantly with JAPOV, he wouldn't have anyone to argue with right?

Like most things, people only realize what they have entirely lost once they have let it go. You guys can be part of keeping us going, or not. That is your choice. I will have 40 years invested in this soon, but I can't hold up the world by myself without a little help.

Brian

"Blood on my hands" Melodramatic?

As for identity, mine is Martin Lide, architect, Houston, Texas...google it.

Brian

I spend a lot of time on songs. Passionate hobby. I don't write a lot of songs but I spend a lot of time on the ones that I do write.
I come here to post them, as other places.

This site is unique though...as a for instance, on one occasion DOM (fdemetreo) went on the web and found a video of me playing a guitar and singing, posted it HERE and then ridiculed and cyber bullied a 70 year old man about his physical appearance. What kind of grown man does that? And no one here did anything about that.

On another occasion, YOUR MODERATOR KEVIN called me a fascist because I said that I was voting for Trump. The insult was idiocy. But incredibly, he is a moderator here.

YOU uniquely, let garbage like that go on, on YOUR SITE... UNCONTESTED, and yet, you're going to lecture me about handing these people's $hit back to them?
No sale Brian. If I was your vision of a model citizen, would I just let them dump on me at will, as much as they like? As you said, many others have left as a result of the atmosphere. Do you suggest that I leave?

It's YOUR site. You don't enforce your own stated rules, so it's left to predictably devolve into insults and flame war free-for-alls. "All your regulars leave" and you blame people like me for handing trolls insults back.

Other moderators put an end to these things. I visit several sites, on FB and other places. None of them are allowed to become the mess that this place is.



And yeah, if I were a moderator Dom would be gone, Tony would be gone, politics would be gone, religion would be gone. And any personality that disturbed the peace as an ongoing pattern would be gone. Standard practice every where but here. If the site couldn't survive with cordial discussions limited to songwriting and the music industry...I'd conclude that it shouldn't exist.



Do as you will with it. I'll do as I will with my $300 bucks. I realize that it is no money and not going to keep your doors open, but I'm not going to give it to an enterprise that is run wrong, by-the-numbers, allows people to call me all sorts of names and then blames me for handing the $hit back.

Martin Lide

And Brian

This morning I woke up to see that big tough Tony had called me a "man-pussy" in YOUR Rant Section.

Below is a link to a memory, which is a PM between Tony and me in 2021. Tony tried withdrawing from it but apparently he didn't realize that it stayed up on my end.
I thought it more pertinent to point it out to you than to go back-and-forth with Tony in a rant section.

It defines a site-killing-troll. If you are going to allow trolling like this to go on, it seems pointless to me to contribute to the effort.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18mzXUrKDwOtOoBZh8FJsF9iE_URZgYEb/view?usp=sharing

And Brian
This is Tony's reaction to a screenshot of his own words.
Does this not break any rules on your website?
If not, please correct my misunderstanding and I'll drop it.

Martin,

First of all, you understand we are on the INTERNET right? I have had death threats serious enough to involve local law enforcement and even the FBI in one case that became quite serious. All because I run a free music org. There are trolls on the internet. They are not going away. The best defense to them is to not engage in any way with their nonsense.

If you have links to attacks where you are doing your thing and you are attacked for no reason, link me to it. If you don't report it, how am I supposed to know?

Moderators are all volunteers. I do not believe Kevin is even around anymore. He was the only volunteer moderator who offered to help at the time he became one. His only real power was he could lock a post and let me know there was a problem. He did a great job for years without a single complaint. He and I have opposite political views and, as far as I am aware, stopped coming after he contracted TDS. How long ago was your issue? Maybe he is back and I simply haven't heard from him in ages.

We have narrowed political discussion to a single post where you do not have any reason to engage unless you want to have that fight. I do not moderate it because that is impossible on that topic. I do not understand why you would ever see anything written there unless you WANTED to? I suggest not. Nothing will be learned and no minds will be changed.

As for trillion dollar sites who are far more dangerous to you than anything said by a troll, they certainly do NOT moderate their sites. They simply ban anyone who does not agree with their corporate elite narratives. I can find the most vile and disgusting stuff on all those sites if I LOOK FOR IT. But why should I? Same applies here. Don't look for it. If it finds you, do not engage. If you haven't said a word to someone and they attack you, send me the link and I can then act. It isn't complicated.

If I allow people from the internet to join this site, that means trolls cannot be kept off of it. Free speech includes mean things on the internet and things that are wrong and stupid. But without free speech, we are lost. We have site rules which I can enforce if it is pointed out. I can give short term bans (which I have used recently) and I can perma ban. But I can't stop someone from starting over. The cost of verification systems (which can easily be defeated by a motivated party) is well beyond anything we can afford. That is why most message boards are already gone. If you value this one, then we need donations to pay the bills, and we need volunteer moderators to help keep the peace. Right now I do not have a single "active" moderator. If you would like to help, let me know. If you have examples of problems, send me a PM and a link and I will address it. I get complaints and if I can act (meaning there is a clear one sided attack) I do. If it is a pissing match, I can't go back to day one to see who started every beef. No one can do that. Big companies certainly do not treat ANYONE fairly.

I appreciate your past support and we would appreciate future support. That includes just help creating the friendly place we would all prefer. I have been directly attacked by more people, more times than anyone else here. I have never deleted a single attack against me. I try to live so that their attacks only make them look bad. It works. I would assume someone attacking you must be a jerk because you have never been a problem. On the other hand, other people are assumed to be wrong unless evidence proves otherwise. But if I look at the mud is flying both directions, I have to accept that two parties have engaged voluntarily. Why should I get between a 70 year old man and a 68 year old man who have both chosen to argue? Instead, I just ignore their argument an move on. Show me all these one sided attacks and I am happy to take action. Send them in a PM with link(s).

Brian

I just saw this post. I am confused by it. It appears to be a premeditated call for attacks on another poster correct? THAT I can act on. But it seems like you are friends, so I am confused as to why you would want to keep corresponding with someone privately (as you suggested) who was engaged in that? Can you explain? It doesn't make anyone look good, and it backs up complaints I have gotten from Dom about coordinated attacks on him whenever he backs off and tries to stop the nonsense and be a positive contributor. In at least one case he was right. He hadn't attacked anyone but multiple people went after him. See how this is all intertwined? I called for a site wide truce and he was definitely not the one to break the peace.

PM from Brian...

"Either you need to knock off the fighting and pre-planned attacks or go away. Your choice. The "rant" post is gone.

No more politics or rants. Post about music stuff or go somewhere else."

You win, Marty!

At least Brian's consistent, said same of me.

And he's right to ignore it. People are just passing time here. And you spend enough time together you fight and bicker.

Growing up that's all I ever heard was fighting and bickering from my folks. Cause you get on each other's nerves.

Alot of music has been posted recently, but that's not changing this.

So evidently it has nothing to do with the site being about music.

It's cause once you post your sung,vor
comment on a song it's gone.

Then your left with a bored guy looking for something to do

It's not about music, it's about having a bar to hang out in.

Let's not bs ourselves .

If it was about music you'd say nore than "pleasant" tune and then be gone.

What you do is engage in that song. Stop saying everything is great cause it sucks.

Suggest what makes it better, talk craft, talk about music and songwriting here.

That's not interesting to you?

Then examine why be here

I sent the PM so that I would have confirmation that you READ it Japov. I say the same things privately as I say publicly and have a 40 year track record to prove it.

So now you have acknowledged you know the terms. Be a decent human, and all is well. If that bar is too high, then perhaps you should hang out on Twitter. Plenty of acrimony there.

Brian,

If you're suggesting that I, the OP of the "rant arena", am not as perfectly frank and honest as you... then you're an idiot.

I rarely use the PM function on this site precisely because of this kind of underhanded, two-faced, manipulative $hit! I would much rather keep things in the open, as a public record. Therefore, my PM box is always empty!

I don't know what you're site capabilities are regarding usage, but you should know that I have received many more PMs than I have sent. I've even turned off the Email notifications because of the tendency of certain people to change their posts/PMs. I grew tired of receiving an insult or provocation in my Email only to find a deleted or altered post onsite.

Marty/Dom has been hounding and pounding me for years on this site! Primarily for being so open and candid about my faith and conservative politics. I have never stalked him the way he stalks, insults, and takes "fascinating" joy in provoking me.

The evidence is all over your site! But, you act as if you're completely oblivious because you don't have time to pay attention... Or, you just don't care enough because JPF isn't making money anymore.

Either way, if you're not cognizant enough to see things for what they truly are... then you're right. I shouldn't place any faith in your desire to do the right thing here.

Brian

Thanks for the response. I wasn't expecting it. It Your post had some inquiries. I'll try to give you my POV in as few words as possible.

Regarding Tony...
I did like him and thought he was fun. Back in 2021 when he sent the post to me, I didn't think much of it. Just Tony cutting up. But, I don't conspire to gang up on people for the purpose of harassment, so I declined him. But later on, he declared himself a "racist" here and when I saw that, I left the site and planned to stay gone until you pm'd me and asked me where I had been. I returned and my discourse with Tony got worse after that. I think that his post just above this one gives an indication of the unrepentent and oblivious vitriol and un-balance, that he brings to your song site.

Regarding Dominick Dunne...
Any belief that he is the victim of people ganging up on him and causing him to react in self defense is non-reality. It is fiction. For years now, he introjects himself into threads that he did not originate, and badgers people who say things that he wants to beat down, and resorts to base name calling and insults. Not just me, but Tony, Rob, Steve, Tim, Gavin, Mike Z for just a few. Dom is pathetically thin skinned and when you give a fact based critique of his songs, he erupts with "idiot" "ugly" and so forth. Dominick is the biggest disrupter on the site, and his assaults and vitriolic episodes have probably made a lot of people join up, take a look and take a pass. As well as leave.

The reasons that I have not pm'd you about these things...
is primarily because, given a choice, I prefer returning the insults to tattling. And because I think that I have correctly assumed that all of this is in full view of your moderator, John Schick, and he does nothing at all about it. Therefore, I assumed that bringing any attention to it via PMs was pointless.

Summary...
Of the vitriolic episodes here where middle school level name calling erupts, I spend 99-9/10s of those episodes entangled with Tony or Dom. Other people will disagree about something and usually state their position and move on. But not those two. If they were gone, your site would be civil.

My personal opinion and hunch...
This site has become a ball and chain for you with very little return on the energy expended to keep it going. I personally believe that it has no chance to last much longer as a songwriter-site characterized by vitriol where most of the clicks are spectators to the vitriol. You have a lot of competition. Anyone can turn a FB page into a songwriter forum for free. I personally believe that the only chance the site has is to tamp down the arguments and expel people who insist on creating them, so that an atmosphere fostering songwriting and music can be allowed to grow. If it doesn't, that will be a sad thing, but a songwriter site characterized by arguments is a dead-man-walking. Article 1 is about criticizing tyrants, not arguing on songwriter sites.

I appreciate you willingness to take steps. I'll follow through on my $300 pledge. I will endeavor to be a peaceful and encouraging contributor.

If there are parties who continue badgering and name calling and attacks, I will start a thread in GEN DISC section titled "TROLL PATROL" and will post what I see of the badgering and name calling. That way I can pm you to take a look every now and then.


Thank you for attending to this,
Martin

You always find a way to bring me into your diatribes.

What about you? Your fighting and bickering with everybody, somehow you are the one being wronged.

You want a section for your songs, shall we call it Marty's Hall?

Grow up, your not getting what you want, no bicycle under your tree this year.

Your proving why you are here, to vent, to argue, to prove your worth....

It's sad

Dominick

Brian can look at my post, then your post here, and decide what he thinks for himself.
All of this comes down to Brian's site, Brian's assessment of whether or not he wants deal with it anymore, and Brian's call.

PS, you did not thank me for telling Tony back in 2021, that I was not interested in joining him in an effort to harass you.

He can also go into every one if the hundreds songs I posted, and see you shitting on them.

Out of jealousy nonetheless.

It's not my fault I'm a better Songwriter Marty.

Everybody knows it too

Noted.

Good so stop whining. All you do here is complain, why don't you just leave?

You bring nothing to the site but whining and complaining

Why torture yourself.

Noted.
But I brought this recently.
https://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1197737/stay-the-hell-away.html#Post1197737

and I think it got buried so fast, now your back to complaining.

We should have more that one mp3 forum, we have three lyric forums and nobody uses them

I spent a lot of time on the song and received several compliments here and at a brewery in town.
I don't consider my song as "buried."

Buried under other songs in mp3.

Stop looking for a fight, I've already showed you you will lose every time.

Definition of insanity is doing same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

Your just a petty little guy looking for some significance

Noted.

Here you go Brian, as pledged.
How much more is needed to get to your $1200 minimum expense?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t3EKCQXo7fYL6UFLRNhVhARJ3oc3bYhy/view?usp=sharing

Okay, songwriters, let's help the site out.

Dom,

You have no solid ground to stand on. You are the originator of much of the bad stuff here. It doesn't mean you are always the one who starts everything, but I rarely see you out of anything either. You inserted yourself here when you could have left well enough alone. You have zero self control or self awareness. I know you can likely come back if I delete this account, but why would you want to lose over 6K posts? I don't get it. Do you not value your time and words?

I can have common ground with nearly anyone. Even you. Why not try to have common ground for a bit and see how it goes? If you really don't care about being here, I can help you out with that.

The same applies to everyone.

Full disclosure Martin just contributed to help keep this site alive. He is not perfect but he clearly values it. If the acrimony stops, others do too. If that means simply becoming intolerant, it may be our last option. But the bickering and petty attacks need to stop. If you are attacked going forward with zero instigation, let me know in a PM with a link, same deal to everyone else. Let's clean it up.

It will take a lot of good will or show of support to keeping things going before I will be able to clear your rap sheet Dom. The rest is up to you.

Brian

They are joined!
When have you ever seen Dom without Marty?

And how many of my threads have you "cancelled" over the years?

I don't think you get it, Brian...
It's ME... "I'M" sick of this $hit.
25yrs ago I was welcomed and accepted online as an outdated throwback from the 80s. JAPOV was a nostalgic curiosity, a cynical but funny guitar playing hack with a home studio. My youthful glory days were already behind me, but I was still free to be myself and let my tattered "worldwise" flag fly... Which, considering my conservative roots, was always the point of JAPOV.
But, now, there's nothing left to fight for. Even those days are over.

All you high-minded, equitable, sociopathic, cancel crazy sycophants have got what you wanted. There's only the incestuous, progressive, monoculture gen-Z MOB..... and everyone else.
You win. JAPOV is dead.
There is No Other Point Of View and no reason to be angry.

Your house... Your rules, Brian.
I have made you a promise, and I'd like to create a new account.

I'm not trying to hide anything...
I'm still a musician and songwriter...
So, what's the problem?

Brian, all Marty brings to your site is complaints.

He was kicked off of that other site for being a belligerent a hole.

His donation is nothing more than an attempt to control the site. He continues with his doomsday jpf prophecy about the site ending.

Unless he gets his way. I can only surnise that you don't care, as long as he donates.

If that's the case, be up front about it....

" I find the bickering enjoyable, and don't care cause I don't read it anyway.?? Just help me keep the site going"

I'd be more responsive to that. But even as you describe me, there is a slanted bias , and that's cause as you said Marty just donated money.

It's a music site, not the springer show.

Marty brings nothing to a songwriting site. He is a part time hobbyist, with no music to share.

He is continuing his rants cause he was beaten, did not get what he wants.

No doubt I've caused trouble, but it all stems from music, ... music posted,, music not posted.

Every thread , 95% of my threads are music related.

You're going to allow Marty to BS you and the faithful here for a hundred bucks?

He cares about Marty, he does not care to help develope other writers, he doesn't care about craft, all he cares about is attention..

He wants his weak music to stay on top of the forum forever.

You don't mind putting him first, that would change if I donated money..

Like back to school " it was a really big check"

If it's solely about keeping the site open, just say that.

Marty brings no music to the site

Tony and Dom

Marty would simply like you two, to quit mentioning my name, trolling me and bashing me...and accusing...me...of rants.

I am happy to leave both of you completely alone. Please return the favor.

No one is stopping you from posting songs or lyrics and engaging the site in that manner, except your selves.

Case in point...

Not actually Tony.

You troll me, by name.
Dom sees that, and then Dom trolls me, by name.
Then I ask to be left alone.

Leave me alone.

They are joined!
When have you ever seen Dom without Marty?

And how many of my threads have you "cancelled" over the years?

I don't think you get it, Brian...
It's ME... "I'M" sick of this $hit.
25yrs ago I was welcomed and accepted online as an outdated throwback from the 80s. JAPOV was a nostalgic curiosity, a cynical but funny guitar playing hack with a home studio. My youthful glory days were already behind me, but I was still free to be myself and let my tattered "worldwise" flag fly... Which, considering my conservative roots, was always the point of JAPOV.
But, now, there's nothing left to fight for. Even those days are over.

All you high-minded, equitable, sociopathic, cancel crazy sycophants have got what you wanted. There's only the incestuous, progressive, monoculture gen-Z MOB..... and everyone else.
You win. JAPOV is dead.
There is No Other Point Of View and no reason to be angry.

Your house... Your rules, Brian.
I have made you a promise, and I'd like to create a new account.

I'm not trying to hide anything...
I'm still a musician and songwriter...
So, what's the problem?

Lol. Nobody cares if you talk to Hal Lindsay before bed. Nobody cares if you're an exclusionist, an religious militant, a rebel with and without a cause.


It never should have come to this. It's a music site.

There's only ten people left.

Let's have a music theory thread, a song writing section where people exchange ideas on songwriting.

As is there's not enough music to carry the site.

That's what leads to extra curricular activity.

You see, Brian?

I can't even agree and give up without being insulted and piled on...
It doesn't matter who I address or what I say.

They are joined!
When have you ever seen Dom without Marty?

And how many of my threads have you "cancelled" over the years?

I don't think you get it, Brian...
It's ME... "I'M" sick of this $hit.
25yrs ago I was welcomed and accepted online as an outdated throwback from the 80s. JAPOV was a nostalgic curiosity, a cynical but funny guitar playing hack with a home studio. My youthful glory days were already behind me, but I was still free to be myself and let my tattered "worldwise" flag fly... Which, considering my conservative roots, was always the point of JAPOV.
But, now, there's nothing left to fight for. Even those days are over.

All you high-minded, equitable, sociopathic, cancel crazy sycophants have got what you wanted. There's only the incestuous, progressive, monoculture gen-Z MOB..... and everyone else.
You win. JAPOV is dead.
There is No Other Point Of View and no reason to be angry.

Your house... Your rules, Brian.
I have made you a promise, and I'd like to create a new account.

I'm not trying to hide anything...
I'm still a musician and songwriter...
So, what's the problem?

You see, Brian?

I can't even agree and give up without being insulted and piled on...
It doesn't matter who I address or what I say.

They are joined!
When have you ever seen Dom without Marty?

And how many of my threads have you "cancelled" over the years?

I don't think you get it, Brian...
It's ME... "I'M" sick of this $hit.
25yrs ago I was welcomed and accepted online as an outdated throwback from the 80s. JAPOV was a nostalgic curiosity, a cynical but funny guitar playing hack with a home studio. My youthful glory days were already behind me, but I was still free to be myself and let my tattered "worldwise" flag fly... Which, considering my conservative roots, was always the point of JAPOV.
But, now, there's nothing left to fight for. Even those days are over.

All you high-minded, equitable, sociopathic, cancel crazy sycophants have got what you wanted. There's only the incestuous, progressive, monoculture gen-Z MOB..... and everyone else.
You win. JAPOV is dead.
There is No Other Point Of View and no reason to be angry.

Your house... Your rules, Brian.
I have made you a promise, and I'd like to create a new account.

I'm not trying to hide anything...
I'm still a musician and songwriter...
So, what's the problem?

Hal Lindsay is the problem

Guys,

Why is asking EVERYONE to simply not launch PERSONAL ATTACKS a problem? Argue points, argue issues, don't take personal shots. If you dislike a song, point out the parts that are problematic and offer improvement suggestions. That doesn't mean rewrite their song, but actual music suggestions like "needs a stronger chorus" or "the verses are repetitive" or "the quality of the demo needs to be better, trty finding a demo singer" etc. Even politics can be handled similarly. "Tax increases for the rich will simply be avoided by armies of accountants for the mega rich and the only ones punished will be small business owners who are being squeezed out of existence" (I agree with that fact by the way).

We successfully had these conversations for 15 years. In 2010 I had a huge year of near death health issues. We also started losing key posters who literally died, one after another. By 2015 a lot of this acrimony settled in and the regulars (over 3K of them are on Facebook participating) bailed and went elsewhere. I tried to get them back but they check it out, see the acrimony and say "this is worse than Facebook" and stay away. Several off them chipped in to save the board after I spent 23K and needed more help so they stepped up. But they just don't want to deal with the unpleasantness.

Disagreeing with reason stated is not trolling. Telling someone they have no talent and they are losers etc. isn't useful to anyone. There was a time when we had legitimate music industry folks here regularly. Famous artists, famous songwriters, famous producers and some label folks. We had the PRO's here as well both as participants and as sponsors. Chris Young and Kacey Musgraves BOTH got their starts here as kids. We helped Chris learn how to write songs, pick out his first guitar, I helped him get into music school at Belmont and get out of a bad record deal as a kid. He has stated all of that publicly and played at our showcases and awards events along with countless other legitimate music successes. We helped REAL musicians often and still cared about hobbyists just as much. But little by little the poison drove them away. I know that the 2016 election changed the entire country. But to at least have a pleasant and productive place to get away from the lies and nonsense, we have to do better.

There is only a couple people I know of who have ever been banned from this site. Spammers get deleted, but real live people do not unless they are absolutely psychopaths. If I was a tyrant or subservient to the whims of people who donated money, JAPOV and DOM (who are nearly exact opposites) would have been gone long ago. But my dislike of canceling people has resulted in our current situation. We have a lot of visitors every day, but few registered active users. There ARE solutions to that, but they are VERY expensive and we don't have enough active registered users anymore to justify the cost. (That would allow people to simply register and login via their google or apple email accounts or other social media like Facebook for example).

I know Martin has supported us for years (see his name on the donor list). He called for more civility. That seems like a great idea. If people invest in keeping this going, of course they have input and deserve to. That doesn't mean they can dictate who is here or not or that they are immune to rules. Did JAPOV or Dom get banned after he made a donation? You're still posting here right?

I asked for 10 people to put their name in to create a political board and only 2 people spoke up saying yes. People don't want politics here, that is pretty clear.

As for Japov, I don't even remotely understand your message, so you have to decide if you want to post attacks or not. If not, then simply stop posting bad stuff. Changing an account would not serve any purpose. Either you want to get back to music or you do not. You are a grown man, act accordingly.

Frankly it is embarrassing this discussion has looked like every elementary school squabble in history. Be above the nonsense and everyone will be the better for it.

Meanwhile, if you are bothered by each other, simply click the ignore button and stop seeing the posts that annoy you. That is the best "unpleasant person" repellant that exists. If you choose not to ignore them, that means you WANT to read what they say so what exactly is your complaint?

Brian

I agree. So everyone who is bothered by someone else, simply click "ignore user" and stop seeing their posts. It will be like they are banned to you. Then perhaps we can have some fun and attract some new users and get a few more to come back.

Goodbye.

I'm kinda glad Japov is gone, what a douche

Well, since this post we have received $555 in donations. That is well over a third of what we needed to pay for next year. Thanks to those folks. Perhaps we are turning a corner.

Brian