JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Bernie Taupin any good?

I came across the lyric for Elton John's "Levon" and was not impressed. Obviously, it works but I just thought it could have been crafted much better and the story was not particularly compelling. And that was a smash. Just curious... is Bernie Taupin well regarded as a lyricist or just ho hum or what?

I actually don't know this song terribly well, but I can respond generically. With anyone who has a large body of work, it's easy to find a few that seem weaker than the rest; and it's hard to know the full impact of a finished lyric without the accompanying music.

Apparently, in interviews, Elton John has said that most of the time, Taupin would create a lyric and send it to him, and he would create a musical mood out of it. And we know that many of those songs were pretty strong. We also know that the two creators had a very simpatico mindset – that is, they played off each other beautifully.

Your own comments include “Obviously, it works….” And perhaps obviously it does. If this were the only lyric we knew of Taupin’s, we could argue about his talent – maybe we thought the storytelling a little vague, the narrative a little sketchy, the rhythm uneven, etc. But I think it’s pretty clear he is/was a very solid craftsman, and wrote a lot of great songs. And unlike many other “pretty talented” lyricists, he had a regular partner to create songs from his lyrics *and* perform them. So good on him, I say.

I rather like “He was born a pauper to a pawn…” myself. And I also like “where the dogs of society howl” in that other song. Not to mention all of “Candle in the Wind.” I’d vote “yes” on whether Taupin is a talented lyricist, if anyone is taking a vote.

I wish I could write a lyric like that.

Of course he is. His body of work and the amount of success speaks for itself. I wish I could be as bad as him. I’m sure you could find examples of poor lyrics in any successful writer’s portfolio

I actually think Levon is quite an interesting lyric and provokes thought, but each to his own.

I think the question to ask, when anyone is this successful (even if it's someone you don't quite "get," is "Why is that person successful?" What worked?

You could make the argument that, well, hey, he was writing for Elton John and his lyrics were carried by EJ's talent as a performer. But I think that one of the reasons EJ became so successful was that the lyrics were above average and bumped his songs up to the next level.

Is Bernie Taupin good? Seriously.

Waal..it ain't Bernie's & El's BEST song, but neither was The Beatle's "I Am The Walrus". So what? Folks Loved It and Bought LOTS of It.

Bernie's no Expert on "American Culture"...but DOES know enough to slide-in all sorts of Nuances-that-Resonate here, from the "God is Dead" Headlines..to all the Oz-Touches in "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road"...to the "Some others choose the good old family home" in "Philadelphia Freedom".

For a "Foreigner", he "Connects" VERY-Well with the American Audience that DOES certainly reward him WELL for what he writes.
&..with Elton John's Melody-Help, the result is Always-Interesting..& Enjoyable Listening.

Even when it doesn't make Much Sense.

Best Wishes,
Stan

That's what I was thinking too...

I do not think Bernie's pedigree is in question....his success and volume of hits is testament. Every songwriter with a large output produces some fuffers along the way. A lot is down to taste.....Personally I think lyrics in pop music are pretty much unimportant anyway... as it is mainly the meldoyand production that seells a song so it is a moot point.

You will get huge hits with very poor lyrics.....I have never seen a hit that has great lyrics but a poor melody.

Making sense in lyrics is overrated. Seriously.

I've been reading Neil Young's biography, Shakey, and he rarely talks about his creative process, but one thing he has said more than once, and it boils down to this: just because he is creative does not mean he is smarter than other people...so he's much more interested in conveying feeling in a lyric rather than wisdom, or brilliant insight, or perfect storytelling. His lyrics are crafted to evoke feeling, emotion and atmosphere.

Bernie Taupin succeeds in spades on that level (and often on the explicit level as well, as in "Ticking" or "Candle in the Wind"). Personally, I rarely listen to music with my analytical left brain...the music has to creep its way into my psyche, affecting my feelings, and if it happens to be somewhat mysterious, well, that's all right with me. It's probably why I'm not keen on writing in the modern country genre, which puts explicit, perfectly sensible lyrics in the spotlight and isn't as interested in breaking new musical ground. It's a different way of listening and of presentation.

Taupin has a great natural feel. As a result, it can be difficult to explain in words why his lyrics resonate so well in an Elton John composition. Maybe such things are best absorbed and learned in a different part of the brain.

I think Elton John is a better melody writer than Bernie Taupin is a lyricist, but that's just me. As others have said - when you have a crazy huge body of work, not every song will be a Maserati. But then, along comes a song like "Tiny Dancer", which to me, is the perfect lyric and melody. I choke up every time I hear that song; as a musician and writer of mediocre songs, I just think it is so good!

"...Blue jean baby, L.A. lady,
Seamstress for the band
Pretty eyes, pirate smile,
You'll marry a music man
Ballerina, you must have seen her
Dancing in the sand
And now she's in me, always with me,
Tiny dancer in my hand..."

*goosebumps*

Other great Taupin lyrics, IMHO:
Your Song, Mona Lisas and Mad Hatters, Daniel, Blues For Baby and Me, Someone Saved My Life Tonight, Empty Garden, Blessed.

And if you want to read Taupin lyrics that don't even need music to be incredible...look up "American Triangle". The music just makes it that much better.

So to answer the post title, yeah, Bernie Taupin is indeed "any good"

-Mike

it's funny that of all The Beatles' songs you picked that one. If push comes to shove and I had to name my fave fab4 track it would probably be Walrus. If I was going to kick one out the door I think it would be Hello Goodbye - Interestingly both from the same period!

Yellow matted custard
Dripping from a dead dog's eye


I mean, there's an ear-catcher

Let's see - you are asking us, mostly a bunch of songwriting beginners and wannabes, whether a guy who has worked on 30 albums with Elton, who in turn has had 50 top 40 hits using his lyrics, is any good? Naaah - probably sucks.

Ok, now I'm really lost......

Bill, you are really showing yourself as the apprentice.

cheers, niteshift

C'mon, it's a valid question. I do not doubt the volume of his work. I simply asked is he regarded as a great lyricist. It has been discussed on this very board that melody is far more important than the lyric. I wondered if Elton's talent is responsible for the vast majority of their success. I have never studied their work. On the other hand, if he's a great lyricist and highly regarded as such, just say so.

Those of us who write prolifically are constantly reminded that you had better make it the best you can make it, else, forget it. And that lyric, I, personally, did not think was grade A. It's okay but I thought it could be better.

No big deal, just curious how he is regarded in the world of songwriting.

I could ask same about Mick Jagger. Just because someone has had huge success does not mean that they were truly great. They might have ridden someone else's star. I read something recently where Jagger said that Keith Richards is hugely underrated and a fabulous composer of rock music and that the Stones' success was largely due to Richards' talent.

C'mon Bill, time to get back to work.

Value your own work, and don't worry about others.

Seems like Small Penis Syndrome to me.

cheers, niteshift

And you are showing yourself to be an [naughty word removed]. No need to be condescending with me.

Hey Bud,

You're just trying to run down one of the best lyrsicts that's ever made it.

From my point of view, that'a just a waste of time. And not doing yourself any favours either.

Time for a re-think bud ?

cheers, niteshift

PS = I'd rather be in his position than yours.

You’re welcome to think that Taupin succeeded despite his lyrics, rather than because of them. You’re welcome to think that it was EJ’s music and performing talent 98-100% that was responsible for the success. I think you’re wrong in this case, but I’m sure any of us could find songwriting teams where that was true.

You also have to consider the genre in which a song is written, and the era. In the post-Beatles era, there was a definite tilt to “poetic” lyrics, or cryptic. On forums like this one, lyrics that are more poetry, or that don’t tell a clear narrative, are considered second-rate (and most lyrics are judged by their suitability for commercial use today). But back then, those lyrics were very much in vogue.

There are detractors for any composer or lyricist. I was reading a book on opera some years ago, where the author felt it necessary to state “Look, there’s no sense being sniffy about Puccini. He is a great composer” Cause obviously some people think that despite La Boheme, Madame Butterfly and Tosca, he wasn’t really as great as he’s made out to be.

And even if *this* lyric doesn’t work for you, I suspect that many other Taupin lyrics do? Clearly he inspired EJ, and EJ made gold out of Taupin’s words. They spoke to each other. The songs “work” through whatever alchemy was going on there. Savor. And study. Bernie Taupin wrote many hit songs in the style of the 70s and early 80s; he wrote what was right for the artist and for the market of the time. His songs, if introduced by a newcomer today, would probably not sell.

"goo goo ga joob" ain't bad either in my warped opinion

I liked Bernie Taupin's lyrics before I knew much about lyrics.

Hi

You asked Is he regarded as a great lyricists?

Yes! By not only the fans but any writer, musician or artist.

Did you know Bernie wrote "These Dreams" for Heart, and perhaps may be there biggest hit.

The sweetest song is silence
That I've ever heard
Funny how your feet
In dreams never touch the earth

"Someone Saved My Life Tonight" - "GoodBye Yellow Brick Road"
"Harmony" and "Your Song" are four of my favorites.
Along with this gem...

"I Feel Like A Bullet (In The Gun Of Robert Ford)

And I feel like a bullet in the gun of Robert Ford
I'm low as a paid assassin is
You know I'm cold as a hired sword
I'm so ashamed can't we patch it up
You know I can't think straight no more
You make me feel like a bullet honey in the gun of Robert Ford

"Captain Fantastic & The Brown Dirt Cowboy"

It's endless greatness, perfect lyrics matches melodies.
And a GREAT underated band as well. It's hard to be a band especially a rock/pop band around a piano!

Gosh -- I think it's a pretty darn good write -- and that album -- is terrific -- so in context of that !!! hmmmmmm jm

Lyrics: Bernie Taupin

Levon wears his war wound like a crown
He calls his child Jesus
`Cause he likes the name
And he sends him to the finest school in town
Levon, Levon likes his money
He makes a lot they say
Spends his days counting
In a garage by the motorway
He was born a pauper to a pawn on a Christmas day
When the New York Times said God is dead
And the war's begun
Alvin Tostig has a son today
chorus
And he shall be Levon
And he shall be a good man
And he shall be Levon
In tradition with the family plan
And he shall be Levon
And he shall be a good man
He shall be Levon
Levon sells cartoon balloons in town
His family business thrives
Jesus blows up balloons all day
Sits on the porch swing watching them fly
And Jesus, he wants to go to Venus
Leaving Levon far behind
Take a balloon and go sailing
While Levon, Levon slowly dies
He was born a pauper to a pawn on a Christmas day
When the New York Times said God is dead
And the war's begun
Alvin Tostig has a son today

Ahhhh Mike - "Robert Ford", how could I forget that one?
Haunting melody, heartbreaking lyrics. And the backwards guitar solo by Davey Johnstone. Heaven.

I met Elton John 2 years ago, very briefly. Escorted him, his publicist and his partner to the limo from backstage. He was conversational, friendly and upbeat. There was so much I wanted to say in that 1 minute, but my job didn't allow it. But "you've been the soundtrack to my life...thank you" would have covered it.

-Mike

Bernie also wrote the lyrics to Jefferson Starship's "We Built This City".

As I said he has written some fuffers as well as good stuff....LOL

Mark ==> Buzzkiller

I already loved Taupin's lyrics, but now I've been enlightened as to other hits that he wrote (had no idea)! Is he great? He's as great a lyricist as it gets, IMO. Mark touched on feeling...I detest lyrics that are absent of feeling. Taupin certainly had a lot of it, and a unique way of expressing it (something our Marc Barnette tries to instill in us all the time) which is what set his songs apart and made them a step above ones like "Billy, Don't Be a Hero" or "Mickey". These songs enjoyed immense success, even though they sucked scissors. Then you have "Candle in the Wind", "Tiny Dancer", etc. that are mainstays in your mind, not only because of the melody BUT because the lyrics were as good. Yes, here, you will hear me talk about the importance of a great lyric. I don't think there's one song on the "Yellow Brick Road" album that wasn't brilliant. But that's just me. Apparently, a lot of folks felt the same way from the POV of the album sales.

We ALL should be as "bad" as Bernie!

Poor melody and great lyric... Tie Yellow Ribbon round the old oak tree, it's not very good and almost makes a mockery of the song....

Then of course you have those hits that were crap in both .... Achy breaky heart and sugar sugar spring to mind.

Which just shows that it's not what we think but the listener....

Cheers

People like to be moved they like to feel emotionally... rythym can do it melody can and stories can..... stories although have a very norrow range of themes contain the greatest variety....

Lyrics fit into a few categories... those that tell a story, those that although don't make a whole lot of sense generate emotion, and those that are just a bunch of words but are pleasing to the ear....

Most lyric writers start their careers by telling a story or by re writing someone elses... a really great lyric writer can also write words that generate emotion with words that don't necessarially make sense to everyone or even anyone but most of us feel it... then there are those few special people that have enough musical sense to pick words and compose very beautiful melodies with them matching the sound and meanings that delight our ears..... JMO

Burnie is definatly great. There is more to lyric writing than telling a good story.... it is about making people feel by using both the sound and meaning of each word in combination to do it. Some do it well... others get by... it's like musicians and singers lots of people can do it and many do it really well... but then there are those who have that special skill we don't quite understand because it is not necessarialy perfection of the technical aspect... just something that resonates with people that makes them truly great...

cheers

Elton John may be the second luckiest man in the world to have found a lyricist who gave him so much to work with. Look at that lyric and what Elton did with it, what he was able to do with it because it had such merit. From line one it engages the mind of the listener. Bernie wrote it well. Elton enunciated well and gave it notes listeners could easily 'sing'along with, hear, without having to be masters of vocal acrobatics. Look at the visual imagery that continues to paint the character into a reality you can conceive and imagine, indeed, MUST imagine when you hear it, 'counting money in a garage by the motorway'.

Lyrics: Bernie Taupin

Levon wears his war wound like a crown
He calls his child Jesus
`Cause he likes the name
And he sends him to the finest school in town
Levon, Levon likes his money
He makes a lot they say
Spends his days counting
In a garage by the motorway
He was born a pauper to a pawn on a Christmas day
When the New York Times said God is dead
And the war's begun
Alvin Tostig has a son today
chorus
And he shall be Levon
And he shall be a good man
And he shall be Levon
In tradition with the family plan
And he shall be Levon
And he shall be a good man
He shall be Levon
Levon sells cartoon balloons in town
His family business thrives
Jesus blows up balloons all day
Sits on the porch swing watching them fly
And Jesus, he wants to go to Venus
Leaving Levon far behind
Take a balloon and go sailing
While Levon, Levon slowly dies
He was born a pauper to a pawn on a Christmas day
When the New York Times said God is dead
And the war's begun
Alvin Tostig has a son today

The luckiest man in the world was Bernie Taupin, in finding the second luckiest man, Elton John, a musician who could take a lyric and know where the verses begin and end, and where the timing demands a change of dynamics to up the interest, to make the point musically as the lyric makes the point with words.

"He was born a pauper to a pawn on a Christmas Day
When the New York Times said, "God is dead."

What great ideas to give me to play with in my mind! Taupin is a poet of the first magnitude, a first magnitude dude, and John is a superlative melodist and genius of song-structure mastery.

I've been considering reviewing some of their work, "Honky Chateau" being one early album I remember someone sharing a few songs with me in about 1972. I remember reading a lyric on the vinyl album cover, something about 'like a puppy child', and being intrigued by that line and others, but I've never really owned any of their albums/CDs. I used to cover "Levon" and "Your Song." And once I moved into a house with a piano and a downfallen preacher showed me four chords and I found they fit "Crocodile Rock".

They have given musical history some fine product, lyrically, melodically, and in production, and Elton did it with a performance flair that entertained the eye as well. The work is well worth your study if you aspire to write in the eclectic cornucopia of possibility, and not limit yourself to imitation of a single genre or style. Study the lyrics. Study the melody. Of extreme importance, study the song structures. And study how they work in engaging and maintaining your interest. Well worth the study.

Bernie Taupin... good.. yes!

That's an awesome comment, Mark! I couldn't agree more.

When I write, it's way more about feel, imagination and being down to earth focusing on things that most have in common, than anything else. It's not about clever, analytical, craft ect. Those things may come in between writing, and enable you to be better in the writing moment. But at the exact time of writing, all of that should become invicible. It takes a lot of work to prepare for a work of art, but the execution of it is better to be intuitive. THAT's when you have a direct line to the muse..

That's also why you can't judge a book by it's cover, nor pulling one lyric out of a body of work, and evaluate that as idiomatic of a mans abilities.

Bernie Taupin's place in music history can't be questioned in any legitimate way, IMO.

One of my favorite albums of all time is "Two Rooms", where other artists cover the songs of Bernie and Elton. Just awesome!

Here's a track from that album, where Eric Clapton covers "Border Song" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMKRgVwaXK4

I agree..... sometimes it is the simplest of lyrics that evoke the most complicated emotions and relate to peoples experiences the most.
The strange thing is that these type of lyrics are probably the hardest to write.

I don't find it difficult at all to write simple lyrics, Big Jim!! LOL

I'll pay that...I could not agree more ... my take on it is... that the skill requires a merging of both composing and writing as a single skill... not two seperate ones...

Cheers

It's great to see a songwriting thread about a lyricist I have admired for 40 years. Bernie's best lyrics (to me) are when they leave so much open for interpretation to the listener with the vagueness and suggestion of ideas. Often, controversy would be sparked because a supposed religious angle would be touched on in a lyric that would get certain circles of people bent out of shape. But, when you would look at the lyric, you could never really put your finger directly on the thing that would get so many people upset because the reference was so vague. Genius!

I saw the lurkers were reading this thread from 2010...lol

but it made me laugh how heated conversations got. yeah i think the OP askin Any good? Like the question should probably be... is he great.

I think so, as hard as it is for a music writer or artists to dent the market, imagine how hard it is for a lyricist, youd need to be one of a kind really.

But Elton defintely upped his lyrics, some great stuff they did

Last I read about him was on his RCA Rodeo bulls he breeds
Sure he is great writer , Can't beat him and Elton on their bad days .

Which is kinda funny a warm sensitive songwriter and rodeo bulls