JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback MP3 Feedback Forum Shame, Shame, Shame (feat. AI vocals)

The point is and was, is that this is not a pro caliber demo. regardless if it has any chance, it doesn't, but you're arguing it's on par.

The raw pitiful truth is that neither our songs or our recordings stand a chance, they are not good enough, to overcome the odds.

But your not making radio ready demos Marty, but you are making jpf ready demos.

And they sound good. But nobody would be paying tens of thousands on their album if they could do it with biab,

I'm totally confused in regards to what you guys call a demo song. From my experience it could be a really primitive recording made on a mobile phone or it could be a polished top-notch multi-track recording. Even if I had a radio ready demo, the radio stations world-wide wouldn't play it. Nobody will buy it either because I'm are not well-known and I don't have a huge fan base. My question is, what do you guys do with your demos besides posting them here or on your websites? Somewhere in this thread someone mentioned the word pitch. A good song is a good song and can be successfully pitched no matter what the quality of your demo is. That's my opinion.

I got one of my songs recorded, sung and produced by Andrew Gold and all it took was a very primitive recording that was full of mistakes. That was enough for him to notice the potential of the song. If you've never heard of him, Andrew sang the Golden Girls sitcom theme "Thank You For Being A Friend" and recorded and produced songs for Linda Ronstadt, Celine Dion, 10cc and many others. Fdem, you say our songs or our recordings don't stand a chance because they are not good enough to withstand the odds. I can't speak for others but in regards to my songs, I don't agree with you. All you need is the right song and the right artist. I've been there and I've done it.

To come back to the original topic of this thread, I know not everybody likes this song of mine and I'm sure I've written better ones. I post some of my songs here just to find out how others react and to find out what is good and not so good. In this specific recording I used a new tool and wanted some feedback. The discussion then went all over the place. That sometime happens in forums.

Dom

You think things about what I think...that I don't actually think.

I have no illusion about the level of my recordings, relative to the most skilled, experienced and talented people in the music industry. I know much better than you what the differences are.

Sidenote 1: There are bands out their playing and selling music on par with my recordings. And some are getting some traction. The takeaway is that people like and buy their stuff even though a top tier engineer would label it garbage. The sound is good enough that no one questions its imperfections that buys it.

Sidenote 2: I've never had one of my recordings kicked back from the major outlets. All have been good-to-go for APPLE MUSIC and whatever.

Sidenote 3: I've been drafted as a singer into a 3-man guitar trio. They other two are both better guitarists than me. One of them is damn good. The guys asked to hear an example of my personal songs and I gave them my SOUNDCLOUD link. They lit up over NOW I KNOW (MZ). Unexpectedly, they love it. They play it for their friends. One put it on the Spotify playlist where he works. No prompting at all from me. NOT ONCE, has either one said anything but compliments about the audio recording. It could be on the radio and YOU would never be the wiser.

Regarding raw pitiful truths...
This website, with a few exceptions, is a small collection of old unconnected amateur hobbyists who don't truly know much of anything about the music industry, or sound engineering or music theory. Strum guitars to short poems and sing horribly off key without even realizing that they are. But we all love doing it so we come back to it.

Yet some here, profess all these strident rhetorical uninformed opinions about all of the above. You, Dom, are the poster boy for that.

This THREAD was one of the few that ever occurs here containing some very useful insight into a songwriting tool. You have derailed it into a DOM-A-THON, all the while professing that we should be all about the music.

Yet, when something good like this actually comes along here, you obscure it in uninformed, circular, rhetorical value-less jiberish. And never actually put up an example of your own paradigm-based work for scrutiny.

This on-and-on is degenerating this site. It makes a passerby look in and see nothing worth staying for and pass on.

If you really care about this site, please allow this thread to return to Rob's content. I am not concerned with what you think of what you think that I think. No one is. That topic is value-less.

Marty

I didn't catch that, can you write it again?

Fair enough but you challenged me saying since I have all this prowess, not like I said anybody sucked .

If anything I'm more critical of myself, I've throw out Tim's of songs and tins of would be recordings

Dom

I don't think that you ever settle down emotionally to the point of being able to read and fully comprehend a contradicting opinion that anyone else writes.

I'll shorten it...

This thread is good information and constructive. Your input is meandering, circular, derailing and destructive to any flow of useful information. For the sake of JPF, please withdraw and let Rob's content through.

Marty

Well you don't insult me and then tell me to be quiet. Dude you're an architect , why do you have more rights than me? What he should do is post this in a tech thread, that way I don't have to read Mike telling him he's Leonard Cohen

High horse much

Dom

Again, those are your thoughts, not mine.

I am a songwriting hobbyist on a site with people same as me. I have no illusion of elevated status.
Mike likes to flatter people and wax poetic, often to the point of being a bit syrup-py. Let him enjoy it. Don't allow it to trigger you.
Mike adds a lot of useful content because of his music addiction and detailed nature.
Rob and Mike both know that Rob's name is not Leonard. However, in contrast to you and me, Rob has actually engaged a piece of the actual music business.

We're getting old. Time is short and the reaper nears.
Let something good go on here.
Please.

Marty

Examples; The Ramones, Jet, Motley Crue's first album, basically anything recorded in the 70s like KISS... Yet, the music still sells.

Why? Because it's organic, "human", and it sounds good. It doesn't sound like SIRI...

The Tonester gets it.

In the article that I read on this, that is essentially the exact point that the author concluded.
Though rough by music industry standards, the recordings are viscerally pleasing and genuine sounding.

And I'd definitely add RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS to your list.

For you Tonester,

Bruce Springsteen's critically acclaimed "Nebraska" album. 4 track every bit.

Warren Zanes' recent book reads like a novel:

https://brucespringsteen.net/news/2...-bruce-springsteens-nebraska-is-out-now/

Hi Rob,
The song sounds fine. However, it is a disappointment that a real woman's, human, voice isn't being used.
I'm an old school guy who would rather use the instruments that I can play, rather than use synthetic computer imitations.
And now, we don't even want to sing our own stuff! Where are we going to end up?
Next, we'll be having AI write our songs for us......oh, wait.... that's already happening.
Good luck with the "craft".

Lol... I had this one back in the 80s
https://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/tascam-porta-05-hs-ministudio-2092394.jpg

Hi IronKnee,
I'm with you all the way. I would also rather use a female vocalist too but I don't have one available for free. I never said that I didn't want to sing. Some people can sing and some can't. I took lessons and I still can't. I won't let that stop me from writing and producing songs.
I also heard that AI based songwriting software is now available. Did anybody here ever work with something like that?

All the best - Robert

It's cuz I am listening for pleasure now, not critically. After I walked away from my "demo business" it took years to be able to enjoy listening to JPF music without jadedly hearing every problem and mistake in every production.

For several years I made serious critiques. Then and now, the hard-nosed to the "syrupy," --it's all authentic. I just listen differently now. Our lives have arcs.

Fun fact: only last week have I started to allow myself to listen to the work I did on others' songs; it's helping me bond with my sister who "had no idea."

If you knew me personally, you'd know that I don't talk about myself much. I don't live in the past. I am always engaging in some "work" or other, and find this the key to happiness.

To me, it's an upside-down world where "positivity" can be a trigger, and makes someone angry enough to follow me around and attempt to make my life miserable. FD, your posts are littered with MZ baiting. You did it in Vic's (AFAIK) thread after I gave him a positive review by starting your post with "forget what Mike said." I would never be so cruel as that. It made Vic feel bad, too. And "Leonard Cohen" and "deaf" ...I mean, wow...this in just the last week. You said in another post that you are a contrarian by nature--but you are also someone who has a "problem" with me and seem to enjoy baiting me into fights.

FD, I had 30+ clients over about a 4-5 year period from 2014-2019, the majority of which were here. One thing I know about myself is I helped bring lots of joy into the lives of those clients who were generally very happy with my work on their songs. Sorry that this bothers you, and that you imagine me to have some kind of "chip on my shoulder" when the truth is I never self-advertise and it's only because of my innate low self-esteem that I worked and worked and got good enough at doing something that I could feel "okay" as a human being.


Sadly, it also makes old-timers like me wonder..."is it worth it?"

Mike

Marty can be a bit "testy" as well... I just don't give a damn anymore.

I know why I'm here and I'm good with that.

Quit being so melodramatic, Mike

Thanks for making me smile. I appreciate that you added the wink. Done with the melodrama for now.

Well, I'd blow you a kiss... but, that would probably be inappropriate

Marty is wonderful. Shut up.

Marty, I'm glad you find this thread useful. I think Vic, Mike, Gavin and a couple of others learned something new here too. Man, I learned so much myself here. A bunch of personalities hang out here.

laughing, now...

You're certainly one of them Rob

Rob

Both Tony and Dom forget to take their meds now and then. And...
Try to ignore.

I'm going to act on what you've brought here on my next song. Maybe go back into some old ones.

Thanks again
Marty

Marty, feel free to pm me if you have any questions or need help.

Yes time is short, so why whine like a three year old when somebody says what they think...

No, u jump back in a try to discredit , first with your post a song bit, then with a diatribe about how you are all understanding and I'm not .

Can't you just go record something instead of challenging me?

"This is a SONGWRITING site..."

Post a song, Dom.

Maybe their lies the problem, you see it as my baiting, I would give my opinion of biab even if you stayed on leave of absence .

I don't think of mz at all, sorry if that deflates you.

I know people are happy with your work, I didn't say you are not offering a fair product.

Marty wants this forum to be about recording tools, it's like the two of you are screeners for anybody downplaying it. Biab has had a number of zealots on various forums who figuratively fight to the death defending

It's fuckin weird. Do they get a discount for being shall I say, a shill?

It's his best songwriting album, and ironically it's anti recording at its finest. The rough demo was supposed to be for the band to take, he decided to release as is cause of the content.

If your looking to be entertained it's not for your, if your looking into humanity and enjoy a good story, its classic.

Low fi, imagine biab do it...

When you follow behind me and the first thing you say is, "forget what Mike said" --sorry, FD...that's standard troll stuff. It added nothing to your critique, but attempts to negate mine. You who say you're all about everybody having an equal voice.

Yeah u know why Mr innocent? Cause of your ditri

l

That forget Mike was directly cause of yopur mocking me In the rick beato video.

Mr innocent man

No it's not, it's a recording site

Didn't mock you. You misunderstood.

When I agreed with everything you said in my response to your response (in your Rick Beato AI thread), I realized how boring that was, for me, to say. Nothing more boring than a post that says, "I agree with everything you say" and has nothing to add.

Realizing this, I then made an observation that my post was boring, and added. "I guess contrarians have all the fun" --and added a winky emoticon. It was my way of letting you know I actually read stuff you said in that thread (you said, "I am a contrarian by nature"), and I was clearly trying to have a laugh with you. Sorry you took that wrong.

It sounded to me as..your absolutely right, as you always are...

That's why. Comunication is the main purpose of writing a song. Most don't realize it cause there's the business end.

Not a question of me or anybody being right or wrong, I don't think?

I am just letting you know what my intention was, in what I said. I thought you "owning" that you are "contrarian by nature" to be a significant thing, and so I brought it up in a way that finds the "silver lining" in being a contrarian: mainly that there's always something to talk about, whereas if one always agrees, there's far less, and more awkwardness, to say the least.

I was aiming for a smile from you. I guess the winky emoticon carries different meanings with different people.

I hate mockery and don't (intentionally) practice it.

Contrarians fare well in most cases, what they dont fare well with is in social settings

I don't see the point of telling somebody there song is great, when I have a clear belief of the contrary.

It keeps the peace and makes friends, but if the friendship is based on bullshit is it really?

Ass kissers generally are happier, but it's fake too

I guess we can't always tell what we think..refer to Jim Carey liar liar.

Well I was doin well till I got caught up here again. Break time

Nor would anyone want you to.

Just, don't make an assumption that THAT is what I am doing, when I am liking a song. Entertain the idea that I am genuinely liking it. Tony can tell you that the last thing I listened to from him, I thought dragged, and he agreed.

But again, I am NOT listening as a producer anymore which is why I may gush from time to time. I am not hearing all the negatives anymore. That's a completely different mindset that you can't pay me to have, anymore.

And nobody, as you say, wants to feel their "voice" has been negated. So, please, try not to do that ("Forget...Mike") anymore, okay?

Peace,

Mike

Hi Fdemetrio,
you’ve been dominating this thread that I started from the very beginning and I honestly can’t tell what all of this has to do with my song or the tools that I mentioned. You were the first to post something and in that very first post you said that you won’t comment my song. You claim it was because I didn’t respond to something you wrote in a different thread, which is not true because I did. Later you said that you’d rather talk about the song. Well, why don’t you? If you don’t want to comment my song then why don’t you start your own thread or post one of your own songs? If you don’t want to do that then how about commenting my song. What you’re writing here is kind of boring. If you want to fight with other people create you own thread, please. Thanks.

Not when you talk down to me, I told you how I read your thread, and I'm not convinced I'm wrong .

you just make sure you don't butt in when I comment on something ? Ok?

See perfect gang mentality , NOBODY is talking about your song , anything but.

But it's easy to single me out cause you know you have supporters.

Forget recording tools, your the tool.

See perfect gang mentality , NOBODY is talking about your song , anything but.

But it's easy to single me out cause you know you have supporters.

Forget recording tools, your the tool.

Well, I know what things I am feeling when I write, ie what my intentions are. You are free to imagine I am "talking down to you" if you like, but to me, then, it seems you are an "I'm being mocked" hammer in search of a nail. Consider that perhaps sometimes you may perceive it when it is not there. Just sayin...

Just as you are free to assume I'm mz baiting.

Fdemetrio,
you are not responding to what I wrote!
Lot's of people are talking about my song. Apparently you don't read what they write! I'm not singling you out. From the very beginning you said that you won't comment my song. Nobody else said that. Please either return to the initial topic or start your own thread. Thank you.

This is disgusting. Everybody here commented either the song or the tool I mentioned. CAPS don't make things better. I kindly ask you once again, please return to the initial topic or start your own thread. Please stop hijacking my thread! Thank you!

BECAUSE it will be ignored. And was ,That is why

Your song, is not the ai vocalist you are using, it's not the virtual instruments, it's not the programing,.

Nobody is or was talking about the song. Perhaps you mean they are commenting on your track

Your song is melody and lyric, granted arrangement, production, sound is all intrinsically mixed and related

But the most basic thing is your song, the lyrics are so far from being decent even.

I dont need to see a Bob Dylan lyric, . But these are glaringly week.

What did you want me to comment on?

I want to apologize to you, Rob, for the part I've played in the "off topic" posts in this thread, and will refrain from OT talk from here on in.

Caps absolutely make it better .

Ohhh no no, I didn't mean you Mike I mean fdemetrio ...

Please don't think that...pleaseeeeee

Fdemetrio,
Thank you! Now I know you don't like the song. You think the lyrics are weak. Like with that other song I recently posted where you suggested to replace the lyrics completely. What exactly don't you like about the lyrics? I personally found them so inspiring that I composed the music for these lines. Many people here disagree with you, not just me. But I accept your opinion. You initially said the vocals were acceptable/okish. Vic said the lyrics and the vocals were good. Mike was blown away by the song and especially by the vocals. Craig liked the song and made a few suggestions. Like you, Gavin and Couch have issues with the lyrics. IronKnee said the song sounds fine. And now you write "nobody" is or was talking about the song. What's wrong with you? Come on, what's the issue with the lyrics?

Mike,
apologies accepted. At times I found it hard not to respond the way you did.

All the best - Robert