JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum The RANT ARENA!!! Bring all arguments here :)

Edit Note: If you WANT a politics focused board here, please post below and let me know. If over 20 people want it, I will add it. (We used to require 100!)

I edited the title of this post. Below is JAPOV's original, unedited post. Please refrain from further new political posts until we determine if people want it, or just a handful do. I explain further on my response below.
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Thanks for getting back to me Brian. I do understand and respect your position on blatant politically divisive threads, and am happy to hear that you aren't actually responsible for deleting them. JPFolks is your baby and you always want it presented in its best light.
However...
Light comes in many colors and JPFolks shouldn't be part of the problem.

In this age of "cancel culture", if you lower yourself to their level, then they win. You can't hide behind "feel good neutrality". It's a lie.

Take your thread about "impossible voting numbers" for example.

https://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbth...iscrepancies-impossible.html#Post1170874

Look at all the idiots who actually try to dispute "simple math" just to press their own bull$hit political agenda. These morons satiate themselves with lies, and perpetuate the lies, knowing that the argument will never end as long as they keep lying.

That's how they create a "false necessity" to enforce moderation; Cancellation in the name of peace... IT'S A [naughty word removed]!NG LIE!

A lie can only be countered with truth. Truth can only be discerned if we are free to dispute lies. The day we can't call out deception for what it is, we're done. And, if that day ever comes, this site won't mean a damn thing anyway...

Try to take solace in the fact that you didn't create the problem. I don't believe you're a liar. But, you've only been given two choices, Brian... Maintain your integrity and the freedom of JPF, or accept defeat.

I've noticed that many Country and Inde artists are already taking a stand against "cancel culture" and the lying socialist agenda... Personally, I would be proud if JPF took that stand as well.

Hopefully, you see that I actually put time, thought, and consideration into the things that I write... not to mention good humor lol. It really is insulting when threads that I participate in just... disappear.

Reality check on this...
In 2023, all political discussions are blatantly divisive.
If you bring up politics (or religion) in an open forum within a fragmented, factionalized society such as ours...the discussion is going to degenerate into divisiveness.

Unless no one dares to say what they actually think.

People, with the power to do so, take down the ones that offend themselves and leave ones that don't up, across the political spectrum.
I was called a "fascist" because I voted for Trump BY A MODERATOR here. Until I raised hell about it, no one did anything, because it is fine when these things are done to someone not favored.

"Cancel culture" is called "good judgement" and "righteous boycotting" when done by the home team.
When the opposing team does it, it is called egregious and immoral.

Now, you may return the program to quasi-realities and various forms of denial and window dressing.

xoxo
Marty

So, you were offended when a LIAR called you a FASCIST....?
Lolol.... you big PU$$Y!

xoxo
Tony

Label me disappointed the post is gone Brian...

Now I am not blaming you or the mod for doing what was considered best.....but I do have to bring something up

My wife grew up in Germany which was heavily "regulated" by the Allies post war---even what was on the education agenda in schools was dictated to them

German kids were taught that the war was their fault and that their country had been bamboozled by Hitler who wrote about the usefulness and strategic value of Big Lies aimed at the emotions of people.

Right in Mein Kampf ...black and white

With the USA so polarized by The Big (election steal) Lie, there is a real danger to your democratic institutions...when the one party that gets into power so vilifies the other....and the likes of Trump claims he alone is the arbiter of truth for the USA and the GOP and his hangers on will not contradict him for fear of "alienating their base"

Ironic that Germany's lesson is lost on those who articulated it and placed in on their education agenda for every (West German) school kid to learn

So I see nothing wrong with healthy discussions around this...even if they cross the line at times....in fact they need to be had

You can go back and you will see that even if I do not agree on all things with Marty, we respect eachother...and I do not see anyone as being disingenuous to stir the pot...people have their honest POVs ...I believe the same can be said about most if not all participants...certainly the "regulars"

I can also be brought around...would never have thought I would I would agree with Marty about his Second Amendment rights (rights of the community to live safely should be more important)...but I now do...and that would not happen if we could not occasionally put others on their heels and force them to come back swinging so to speak

One thing I will try to refrain from is phrasing things so their tone does not take away from the point. I have been accused or arrogance\condescension etc which was not my intent, but that did get in the way ...so lesson hopefully learned

I thought it was just me.

I guess not.

It took me quite a while to pen an article that wove a recent tragedy, the Bible and historical figures such as Herod Agrippa I to make a spiritual point.
I hoped people would read at least part of it, but I doubted anyone would respond. I received one positive comment, which I appreciated.

Then my entire post vanished.

I was never contacted as to why, the post was just gone.

I suspect that action was the result of two possible things.

1. People complained to a moderator without
approaching me first with their concerns. (Very courageous)

2. The "moderator" deleted my post unilaterally without the courtesy of telling me why. (again, very
courageous)

I can't imagine how anyone involved with removing my post in that manner could think themselves worthy of respect.


Fascism?

Deleting my post was a performance of Fascism. The loudest complainers about Fascism are often the biggest purveyors of it.

Any emotional tenderfoot easily offended by opinionated posts here should try this simple strategy...

...don't read them.

Lol... Just couldn't resist, could you? The Nazi party also strictly enforced censorship, John. This does not apply to Trump...

But, yes, I certainly know you're on the side of free speech... and am glad you chimed in

I liked your post, and mentioned it in recent PMs.

But, I have to disagree with your last bit of advice...
I would suggest not allowing your emotions to guide your politics.
Face it, politics permeates EVERYTHING! And as John mentioned, Hitler knew that well.

I read your post couch and most of the other one that was deleted. I didn't see anything wrong with the opinions being expressed.

Lol... you know the old adage about "opinions and a$$holes" right?
It may be funny, but it's wrong...
Think about it, Hitler probably coined that phrase.

Glad you're here too

Thanks, Chester. 😀

I’m going to make this short.

1.Whichever moderator shut down both threads, a)reveal yourself b) give your reasons for shutting down the threads c) put both threads back up with an apology

There is no place at JPF for this kind of nonsense

Back in 2021, after many email conversations with Brian, I made a substantial donation to JPF which was used to help get this site back open, and additional funds in 2023 to help with song contests. I have never wanted this to be known and I did it because I thought JPF was worth keeping on the internet...but when I see something like this happen, it gives me pause to question my decision to help out

Neither thread was disrespectful IMO...and I can personally vouch for that as I debated on one of them with a couple of very good people, Marty and Tony.

Let’s get this resolved quickly and move on perhaps with a few guidelines

Steve

Hey Tony

Not my intent to liken T with H because that is plain dumb from all kinds of perspectives...

Only point I wanted to make was the irony...USA taught Germany a valuable lesson ..... look out for the charismatic man with the Big Lies......now seemingly lost on the USA...

And no, the USA has no widespread censorship like Germany did, but I am not sure if the disinformation in the media is not the same or worse in terms of outcome...you don't need censorship to control the mind if spreading disinformation will do just as well

Couch, like all your posts that present a Christian POV, yours was well reasoned, articulate, and clearly presented...and I saw no controversial material in it

Sorry a post like this, that took time and effort to present ....was removed

....and you know my opinion of your knowledge of the Christian POV...not sure anyone here can articulate that as well

Thanks, John.

I've had my posts removed here before, and I had a topic removed on Facebook several years ago. It just vanished with no explanation. Everything I said in that debate was factual, there was no foul language, no ad hominem attacks, and no threats. (Now I limit my time on FB to a few minutes a month. It's
a waste of precious time.)
Others were banned from Twitter, Facebook etc., for stating scientific facts. That was widespread.

I assume you're referring to Trump. Relax. Trump has no charisma and all politicians lie. Think about how bad things were when Bush left office. A senseless war, tens of thousands dead and a wrecked economy. Ignore Trump, his big mouth and his tweets and he becomes harmless. The US government is now so full of Wokesters, even if he's re-elected, he'll get very little done.

Forget about Trump. He's a distraction.

So is the Trans Cult, the Climate Cult, and the rapidly dwindling Covid Cult.

Although a couple of those groups appear to be destructive

On the flip side... Give others a reason to donate.

[*BIG THUMBS UP*]

I will appeal to the moderator also to put the posts back up. As far as couch's post I'm 62 and still trying to figure out where I fit with religion. Although his post was about the tragedy in Tennesse there has been a run of death in my family. My sister-in-law has lost her grandmother, husband and they are taking her mother off life support tomorrow, all in a 2-month span. I lost 2 brother in-laws. Trying to have some insight as to how, why and what I should feel and how to cope is necessary.

The other political post is just a debate. People don't debate anymore it all centers around partisanship. 0ur fearless leaders certainly don't debate and pass laws for the common good. It's all about power and winning and shoving unpopular agendas down our throats. This is nothing new I saw it happening 25 years ago, that's why I bought 11 acres and a old log cabin in the woods, to escape it all. We are all mis-informed. I work from home and have a tv running in the background. Can't watch Breaking Bad re-runs forever so when my wife told me Va. was closing its schools, I started watching the news. I was watching the covid news conferences from the White House. I new exactly what was said and wasn't but when I flipped the channel, no one had it right. I had just heard it and it all was mis-quoted. I don't read articles describing what someone said I watch them say it in person. I'm now kind of hooked as I watch Senate hearings, C-span all kinds of things so I can say I heard it from the horse's mouth and form my own opinion. I definitely have conservative values, I've worked my ass off to keep my little slice of heaven and so have my kids. Sometimes It feels like no matter what I do someone is trying to give a slice of it to someone else. So beware when reading most stuff on the net or prime time news, it's all entertainment. Stick to what you can prove from the horse's mouth.

chesterb

Hi, Chester. I'm almost 58. We've experienced death in our family, too. The human reaction is the only reaction. As John 11:35 says when Lazarus died, "Jesus wept."
If you're interested, I can introduce you to the Bible. Briefly. If not, no hard feelings. Either way, when you think of the Bible and Christianity...ignore most of the televangelists, and everyone who tries to tell you who to vote for. Not a single verse in the New Testament told Christians to involve themselves in Roman politics.
When I was a kid, the names Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson didn't make me think of Jesus, they made me think of politicians. A major failing on their part, and I'm guessing, a turn-off to any who might otherwise be curious about the Bible.

PM me if you want. I won't bend your ear.

The ancient Christian Jews were under brutal Roman rule and persecution. There's plenty of "political bias" and advice in the Bible.

CO Chat GPT lol...

Romans 13:1-7: This passage instructs Christians to submit to governing authorities, as all authority comes from God. Some scholars interpret this passage as a pro-Roman political bias, while others see it as practical advice for living under an oppressive regime.

Matthew 22:15-22: In this passage, the Pharisees try to trap Jesus by asking him whether it is lawful to pay taxes to the Roman government. Jesus responds by telling them to give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's, a statement that has been interpreted in different ways throughout history.

Luke 4:16-21: In this passage, Jesus reads from the book of Isaiah in a synagogue and proclaims that he has come to preach good news to the poor, release to the captives, and freedom to the oppressed. This could be seen as a political statement against the oppressive social and political structures of the time.

Galatians 3:28: This passage states that in Christ, there is no longer Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female, but all are one in Christ. This could be seen as a political statement against the hierarchical social structures of the time, and a call for equality and unity among all people.

Philemon: This short letter from Paul to Philemon asks Philemon to welcome back his runaway slave, Onesimus, as a brother in Christ. This could be seen as a subversive statement against the institution of slavery, as it suggests that slaves are equal members of the Christian community.

Matthew 5:43-48: In this passage, Jesus instructs his followers to love their enemies and pray for those who persecute them. This could be seen as a political statement against the prevailing norms of vengeance and retribution in the ancient world.

James 2:1-9: This passage warns against showing favoritism or discrimination based on social status, and argues that all people are equal in the eyes of God. This could be seen as a political statement against the hierarchical social structures of the time, and a call for justice and equality.

Revelation 13:1-18: This passage contains a vision of a beast with ten horns and seven heads, which some scholars interpret as a symbol of the Roman Empire or other oppressive political systems. The passage goes on to describe the mark of the beast, which some interpret as a warning against political and social conformity.

Acts 17:6-7: In this passage, some of the Jewish leaders accuse Paul and his companions of turning the world upside down by proclaiming a new king named Jesus. This could be seen as a political statement against the existing political structures of the time, and a call for a new order based on the teachings of Jesus.

Ephesians 6:10-20: This passage encourages Christians to put on the armor of God in order to resist the devil's schemes. Some interpret this as a call to resist oppressive political systems or social norms that go against the teachings of Jesus.


Chester, you said earlier that you're the sort who prefers to make up his own mind...
May I suggest that you simply read the Bible.
And watch FOX lol

Thanks Couch, I have faith, I believe Jesus died for my sins, I just don't practice it like I should. Don't be surprised if I do PM you soon. I need a starting point, some advise possibly on how to go about it.

JPOV I read the bible once, long ago. I probably have 10 of them from relatives that have passed, guess I need to pick one up. My wife would love for me to go to church with her. I watch daytime Fox news; the others don't interest me. The prime time like Tucker and Hannity I don't watch or anything CNN, MSNBC

Woah!
Forget politics for a moment my friend...

If your wife is a Christian, and she's trying to get you to go to church... JUST GO!

Chester, I look forward to your PM.



JAPOV, the vss. you quote say nothing about supporting certain Roman politicians. That's why you have to qualify them with, "this could be seen as" or, "this could be interpreted as..."

And I disagree. Read plainly, those vss. can't be interpreted that way at all.

Even early non-Biblical documents such as 1st Clement, The Didache, the letters of Ignatius or Polycarp say nothing about involvement in Roman politics.

And I can assure you, the Bible doesn't endorse any cable news networks. Choose sources of information that have the highest percentage of reliability. Those sources may change. Or you may grow disenchanted with all of them, especially since Jesus is the way, TRUTH and life, so Christians should strive for accuracy. Otherwise, we have no credibility.

But becoming emotionally or spiritually attached to a cable news network has nothing to do with the Bible, THE most reliable source of information.

I have no interest in debating this here any further.

Good ol' Grouch... His is the only opinion that ever matters. Hit-n-Run! Lol...

The entire New Testament was only written because, for the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, the Sanhedrin unknowingly handed over their Messiah to the Romans to be crucified. That being, because He was a threat to their political authority while under Roman rule.

Politics hasn't changed much in 2000yrs... There's plenty of political wisdom to be gleaned from the Bible.

Censorship is an essential tool to implement dictatorship into a country. If people only have access to news from one point of view, the government's point of view, then it is easy to chip away at people's freedoms. Unfortunately, we are now starting to see this in Canada under today's government with BillC-11 and C-18 being rammed through the House. This is the thin edge of the wedge, expect more.

You know,
when you talk to me like that,
you make my panties sticky.


LMAO

Ha!
[*BIG KISS*]

I've never understood how they think they can regulate the WWW. I mean, you're either connected or your not... right?

As a moderator, I assure you that I haven't removed anyone's post and would/could not........rather, do act as eyes on the forums for any material posted that is offensive or malicious oriented and would pass that information on. I have in the past reported suspicious posts however.

Debating politics and religion are similar in some respects given convictions and passion, yet different. With politics, many feel "loyal & biased" to their party, and facts & interpretations of facts are where arguments/debate reside giving politics an easier platform for debate. Religion on the other hand, is based on faith and which/whose philosophy one believes. Are not Christians professing "progressive Judaism?" We believe Jesus Christ was the Messiah, Jews are still waiting for Him. Other religions have their prophets as well, but one central belief with "most" all religions is that their is a higher afterlife or higher plane of spiritualism. This seems to have been an innate instinct from all corners of the ancient world as far back as any history can deduce.

Isn't the real foundation of what Christ was teaching is love/honesty/humility? Yet in the name of religion, how many have died in religious wars or have lived their lives hating their fellow man? It will not change, just as political differences will not change due to predictable human behavior that is created by bias, culture, & environment. Utopia could only be possible if ALL were honest, compassionate, & considerate--its not in our DNA, we are competitive by nature and will protect our families if required at almost any cost.

Its great that we all have different personalities and even political opinions, how boring the world would be if we all were clones in our thinking. I avoid religious/political discussions as a rule, any have always chosen not to wear my religious and political views "on my sleeve," for a couple of reasons: One, my Father had a strong influence on me and advised me to always think twice before ever speaking in a accusatory or opinionated manner, two, many issues are really not black or white and may have several shades of gray which perhaps can allow arbitration on ambiguous differences. There is also Three, I know that the gospels in which I was brought up Methodist, advocate witnessing Christianity, however, I do not feel that I should persuade you how to choose/live your life in a spiritual way--you are your own person, and that is your decision. There will be those that say, "you are then not a true Christian," and I would just reply, "our actions in life" IMO will supersede who/what we say we are in the end........maybe, maybe not.

Happy Easter all, pray for the world--tough times here in the USA and scary times for the world.

All I really wanted to say, is that I didn't remove anything Chester!

Everett

Bill C11 and C18 deal with content on the web...

C11 makes companies like Google pay newspapers and content providers for what they currently earn advertising revenue on by serving it up to you.
They get a free ride...don't have to pay anyone right now for content they simply link to...all the bill does is say you don't get that free ride...you must pay\share the revenues with those who create the content
Totally reasonable...if you disagree, then you are saying that anyone can take your music..then put it on line to monetize it..and is entirely free to do so without compensating you, the author

C18 forces companies like Netflix and such to create content in Canada. Think analogy of Autopact....you want to sell cars to Canadians, commit to making some of them here...simply ensures that some of the money LEAVING Canada comes back ...again, totally reasonable..they pay no income tax, and the HST charged is paid by the Canadian resident....

If you are against them both, ...that is fine...but it is not about censorship...and if you heard or read that, it most likely came from those with most to lose here.

You beat me to it, John...LOL

Steve

Lol... TWO DOWN. Thanks Eddie

Everett Wrote

Unfortunately, we are now starting to see this in Canada under today's government with BillC-11 and C-18 being rammed through the House.

Bill c-11was introduced by then-heritage minister Steven Guilbeault in 2020, but it failed to pass the Senate before Parliament was dissolved for the 2021 federal election. It was reintroduced with amendments in February 2022.

Rammed through the house??? I think not...
Steve

Google has basically claimed absolute authority over the WWW, and they're obviously politically/financially biased. Hmmmm... I guess this boils down to "Who's regulating the regulators?"

I read CGs thread didn't know it was gone . I didn't respond to it cause there were so many points it would take too long.

I believe religion/spirituality/bible are emotional concepts so debating them makes little sense as much as...how come you love her...

It was well thought out and written and did not see any reason fur it to be deleted.

Some of the most nonsensicle threads and comments are allowed. I think I know who deleted it. Might be wrong but they have done this before. Being a mod does not mean deleting what you don't like.

It's horse [naughty word removed] actually.

It probably is time for the political stuff to go away, and religious commentary or political commentary go to creative writing

.... "NO SOUP FOR YOU!"

...."Or Nuts"!

When retired CRTC people say it gives them too much power over what people post on the net, then I guess they can see the real reason for the bill. The government already controls much of the news we see and hear and read by giving millions of tax dollars to these organizations, you don't bite the hand that feeds you this well, so you water down the news to not make them look bad, right the opposite of what the media is suppose to do. Countries like Iran seem to block out what they don't want their people to see on the net, so I guess Canada can too.

Nefarious and well financed forces seek to centralize power for the purpose of making it easier to gain control over and then bend to their wills.
Parallel tactic is to destroy the influence of their enemies, either through shame, defamation and ostracism or literal destruction.

The problem is that nefarious forces exist amongst all factions.

John Brown, for instance, was an abolitionist whose "cause" was on the correct side of human history and righteousness. Yet, he also seemed to be a murderous beast with an innate blood lust. When looking for boogeymen (or women) to blame evil on, the first thing to do is to examine the ones in your own camp...and then look beyond that.

I suggested to Japov that he create a group post with those interested in non music related political posts so you could all continue talking at each other as much and as long as you like. He didn't respond to me.

I don't delete posts from real people and mods cannot delete posts. They CAN move posts to Staff Only if they are off topic, abusive, or are receiving complaints for my review. There is no point in complaining to them as I don't and won't share who takes any action. If you must, feel free to blame me for any issue. They are all actually helping as volunteers and don't need or deserve abuse (you know who you are...). They are acting on my guidelines.

Each board has a theme and we are reasonably relaxed about misplaced posts until complaints or abuse occurs. Eventually, politics always dominates complaints and so we have to reign it in.

Politics have lost us 100s of great members and regulars here. They often come here to get away from the nonsense online. When nonsense and predictable rants where no one is open minded break out, complaints and lost members are sure to follow.

How do I know why they left? Aside from them telling me, many of them have re-engaged on Facebook, away from the on again, off again carnage here. It is a shame. But I understand. We keep it lighthearted and music focused on 3 JPF dominated pages there where about 7k members have reengaged. They mostly all used to be here.

So if you want to talk politics with the small number of people here who want it, why not just create your chat via PMs here?

That said, if at least 20 people WANT a politics/rant board, post here over the next week and I will open a board for it. It won't be among the top section boards however.

On a side note:

Frankly, we are having a record low number of donations this year even though I see most of the same regulars posting as usual. We lost all our org. operating savings due to Covid destroying our music awards events and planned tours. It really is time for some folks to step up and help out. Some of the most active users have never donated a penny in some cases well over 2 decades! If you want perhaps the oldest music message board still online to continue, support it.

I've suggested that before... Yes, a "Rant" board down below lyrics feedback would be preferable to simply PMing each other with "behind your back" complaints lol

We're songwriters, Brian. Public address is the whole point. ESPECIALLY WHEN HALF THE POPULATION IS BEING CANCELLED!

Brian

Your post is completely sensible.
I honestly didn't think that you felt that way. I assumed you had some misguided view that the 1st amendment was applicable and tantamount on a privately owned songwriting forum. I based that upon some of your own posts.

As long as this crap occurs here, I have fun with it. It is the only internet cat-box that I have.
It offers an opportunity to access the unguarded thoughts of people who I completely disagree with.
Nonetheless, it is unmistakably self destructive to a music forum.

I second the motion that people who want to mix it up about politics and religion take it private and out of view. I won't be exerting the effort to seek that out, but someone else can.

Therefore, do not count me in as one of 20 who wants a political or religious argument section.

Martin

Yeah'... I guess I don't blame you Marty...
"Cat Boxes" sometimes smell like enormous sticky manginas...

Go ahead, have some fun with that

Well the posts didn't delete themselves, however one phrases it.

I don't wanna spoil the fun of this who enjoy politics, I honestly don't get it though, it's all over Facebook, u name it politics ..what makes it different here? A sense of annoymity not arguing with relatives and close friends?

I think it's allowed here cause it drives traffic, without it we would then have to talk about music?

I miss a songwriting site, where craft is talked about recording craft too fur this in the know.

But I'd enjoy commentary...this is how I wrote this song, I wonder if anybody here could even tell me how they did it.

Sometimes a good melody is pure luck, but making it into a full sing takes craft. I've read many comments of people saying they didn't write a bridge cause they couldn't think of one.

Craft helos

How did I do it?
Well... Generally speaking, Dom...
First, I'm inspired by the TRUTH!
Then, as stated in my Bio, I play guitar just to aggravate Liberals.

Everyone needs a hobby

[""Edit Note: If you WANT a politics focused board here, please post below and let me know. If over 20 people want it, I will add it. (We used to require 100!)

I edited the title of this post. Below is JAPOV's original, unedited post. Please refrain from further new political posts until we determine if people want it, or just a handful do. I explain further on my response below.""]

Politics permeates EVERYTHING!!! It's in EVERYTHING!!! It motivates and inspires EVERYTHING!!! If you deny it, then that's simply YOUR POLITICS!!!

To call it a "politics focused board" is redundant...

People disagree... THAT'S HEALTHY!

But, at this point, I think you're intentionally MISSING the point...

Yes but while you may think your just inventing melody and lyric your actually referring to every skng you have ever heard for references.

My songs have origins from twenty years ago. They evolve so much, from sitting doing nothing, to having a place to use it somewhere else. Once a depressing song is now a party song.

And it took me years just to write a chorus that didn't sound like the verse.

But that's all craft

Craft, method, strategy... Blah blah blah

Here's a challenge Dom;
Post any of your lyrics and I will tell you how politically biased you are.

It is all in the frame of reference. I see JAPOV Marty and myself contributing creatively here as well at the MP3 forum and rarely venture beyond these days.
It's simply available time to commit

If it is a problem and perceived to stem from its position in the board hierarchy, rather than taking it behind the scenes I favour pushing it down the place and giving more prominence to what you want to look like.

Like FD I'd like this to be more about the music, and think it is a shame he does not post any. But I remain optimistic he may one day.

Like Marty and my favourite alien I see this is as much sport and entertainment for old farts who share a hobby that plays around in our imaginations and forms part of our day. Going back to tax returns myself soon after this.

Sometimes it shifts important long held beliefs as I now emphasize my total support for Marty's 2nd amendment rights because he convinced me he needs it to feel safe. Seeing it from his personal POV....which was not immediataly apparent ...in took as long as we have known eachother here so as long as there has been a political board at JPF. To me this is real value

In big picture terms...operating and preserving the place, a grant from some public arts foundation???? Songwriters Hall of Fame???Hook is 20 year old database of music, lyrics, and song related contributions by Just Plain Folks

H%## saving JAPOV's silly assed d'Artagnan grinned avatar alone has to worth...well something you really really need when you just gotta have it....

Get your point about and record low "user donations"..and such and need to rely on as much as you can. Hope you do

In terms of posts that disappeared.

1) It is a shared experience and fact they have
2) Some not all moderaters have spoken
3) Because it has become a point, I would ask the "deletor" of the posts to explain themselves

Ive had posts taken down over the years, I personally have disdain fir mods. It's so easy to pull the switch and put the last word in and close the thread.

Japov I don't write political stuff at all. You may be able to nail an economic tag to some but I write from different points of view.

My forte is still melody but I have worked on lyrics, my lyrics are harder to write becayse it's melody first

I think the trick to pop music is saying enough in as little time and space possible.

But In reality, lyrics are just another instrument in the mix. The sound of the words matter more than the story, it's about being entertained.

But I think I write lyrics to an existing melody better than anyone I know. I do it all the time on my own.