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Name That Tune Challenge
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Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
We're good, Marty.
Part of my optimism comes from knowing there's "no stopping progress" without a form of tyranny, or amendng The Constitution, or both.

Or the collapse of an economic system that glues everything together. The mismanagement of the US treasury started with W and it has not played all the way out yet. Obama was a fairly level headed steward but it stagnated under him. Trump + covid made it a runaway train with the temporary illusion that stability had been achieved. And now Biden is George III and the debt is 32 trillion. Things wouldnt be any worse if we picked a random 8 year old for president.



Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Part of my optimism comes from knowing there's "no stopping progress" without a form of tyranny, or amendng The Constitution, or both. IOW, part of my optimism is also just "wishful thinking" if I am honest, cuz I don't want to be in that head space that you seem to inhabit: fearing that bad stuff is going to happen and there's nothing anyone can do about it, if I am reading you correctly. wink

Mike, there is my head space and there is the reality that would go on if I had never been born. Things are as they are.
We agree that trend line of civilization's progress is an ascension. But it pauses now and then. Had the Roman Empire not devolved into feudalism and there not been a pause to the renaissance, there might have been a man on the moon centuries ago.

I don't want the last few years of my life to be lived out in a broken down world, but the reality is that there are pieces in place making that a possibility. And the nations possessing the most destructive military machines to ever exist have entered a new era of tension between them.
I hope your optimism prevails. I' m wary.

It's important to identify problems correctly to fix them. Someone can believe that a pit bull is actually a pony, but that will end poorly if he or she tries to actually mount and ride it.

I agree, and I hope for all our sakes solutions to these problems can come; but keep in mind that we're not talking about "singing AI" anymore, which is a far less dangerous thing than other forms of AI.

Don't forget, though, that even as you think "there is my head space and there is the reality that would go on if I had never been born" --that all your perceptions come from various forms of filtering that go on inside you. No one has a completely objective grasp on "reality" per se, just perceptions of it, though you may indeed have a better grasp on it than most.

I should probably just stick to what I know, LOL.

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 03/22/23 06:18 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Don't forget, though, that even as you think "there is my head space and there is the reality that would go on if I had never been born" --that all your perceptions come from various forms of filtering that go on inside you. No one has a completely objective grasp on "reality" per se, just perceptions of it, though you may indeed have a better grasp on it than most.

I should probably just stick to what I know, LOL.

With regard to the things we just discussed...I sincerely want me to turn out to be pointlessly apprehensive and your optimism to prevail.

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No absolutes...
Just politics and perception...
Morality is defined individually...

Nope... Can't swallow that.

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Originally Posted by JAPOV
No absolutes...
Just politics and perception...
Morality is defined individually...

Nope... Can't swallow that.

Who said those things?

Absolutes absolutely remain "absolute."

People do come, however, to their particular vision of those "absolutes" no matter how hard they try to see them objectively.

Agreed, morality is NOT defined individually, that would be some form of anarchy, I'd think. Morality is defined "collectively" --not individually, and not absolutely, but given to time and place, or slavery would still be "okay" to practice, like it apparently was (an acceptable practice) in The Bible.

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 03/22/23 07:50 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
JAPOV #1185538 03/22/23 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
No absolutes...
Just politics and perception...
Morality is defined individually...

Nope... Can't swallow that.
Lol... Sorry, I needed to catch up. So, I went back and breezed through the last two pages.

It's just a general "overall" observation... Feel free to ignore me, I'm feeling unusually un-focused wink

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Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
Originally Posted by Everett Adams
I wonder just how dangerous this could be in the hands of unscrupulous people, scam artist and the likes. We can no longer believe a photo any more because they can be doctored, now we can no longer believe the voice on the other end of a phone call, even if we can see the caller.. , just where will it end.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/killi...hotos-of-cops-nailing-and-jailing-trump/
See what I mean, man's heart is evil as the bible says, man invents things that are good for mankind but other men will find a way to use it for evil.

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This world as we know it is fast coming to a climax, an end, just as the bible says it will. But don't worry, it will be renewed under new government and new management making it as was meant to be before man fell into sin and gave this world over to Satan and his demons. Satan's time is running out and he knows it and he intends to not surrender peacefully, he will take as many people with him to hell as he can, and destroy as much of this world as he can. It is all in the bible but only those that read it will see it happening until it happens, even then many will not believe.

JAPOV #1185552 03/23/23 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
I'm feeling unusually un-focused wink


I don't notice anything different. LOL smile

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Everett wrote

This world as we know it is fast coming to a climax, an end, just as the bible says it will.

I must have missed the email....should I close out my stock portfolio..just in case...or are we talking a couple of million years from now? LOL


Creators of music have a responsibility to their craft. When they have finished using all the notes and words, they must pass them down to the next generation with a simple request. “Use these to create new music.”...Steven McDonald
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Hey Everett...
When we're raptured out'a here, do you think you'll even care enough to glance back? wink

VNORTH2 #1185600 03/24/23 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by VNORTH2
Everett wrote

This world as we know it is fast coming to a climax, an end, just as the bible says it will.

I must have missed the email....should I close out my stock portfolio..just in case...or are we talking a couple of million years from now? LOL
Your flippant fun poking remarks tell me just what kind of a Christian you are. You are of the Laodicea church that the bible talks about. You are not looking and hoping for the return of Christ that is for sure.

JAPOV #1185601 03/24/23 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Hey Everett...
When we're raptured out'a here, do you think you'll even care enough to glance back? wink
I hope we don't have memory of the people that missed the rapture because they would not listen to the truth or read their bible, that includes loved ones. Even worst for lukewarm Christians and some pastors who say they cast out demons in God's name, when Jesus says "Get thee from me, I never knew you".

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Is it possible to avoid the religion wars here?

Scolding non believers and less-than-enough believers and damning them to an eternity in hell...will not likely gain them as adherents.
Much more likely to turn them away. As has been the case for the last several decades.

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No.

Everett and I seem to agree... So, the argument is yours.

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Everett...it seems you cannot post without condemning all who do not believe as you do...that everyone who does not see the world as you do....... is evil and deserves eternal hellfire

Jesus asked for and spread love....there were no threats made to those who did not follow.

Do you not see that by your constant reminder and fervent belief that you actually hope this will be true...you actually hope anyone who does not see the world like you WILL go to hell?


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
Originally Posted by VNORTH2
Everett wrote

This world as we know it is fast coming to a climax, an end, just as the bible says it will.

I must have missed the email....should I close out my stock portfolio..just in case...or are we talking a couple of million years from now? LOL
Your flippant fun poking remarks tell me just what kind of a Christian you are. You are of the Laodicea church that the bible talks about. You are not looking and hoping for the return of Christ that is for sure.


Flippancy intended Everett...I will be back in a little while with some serious stuff

Last edited by VNORTH2; 03/24/23 11:07 AM.

Creators of music have a responsibility to their craft. When they have finished using all the notes and words, they must pass them down to the next generation with a simple request. “Use these to create new music.”...Steven McDonald
JAPOV #1185610 03/24/23 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
No.

Everett and I seem to agree... So, the argument is yours.

Well Tony...question?

You and Everett post these proclamations about the intentions of God and the fate that awaits those who fail to get aligned.
The reactions to your proclamations appear to range from mild discomfort to indignation. (even amongst other believers)
No one seems to be "coming to the light from the darkness" as a result of anything that you and Everett have said.
The only people who seem to take great delight in what you and Everett say ...are you and Everett... and other lurking fervents, whom I assume pm you "atta-boys." Maybe not?

?
Is that due to the righteousness of your connection to the almighty creator of the universe... or simply human egotism?
?

Eagerly awaiting your response. smile Try to actually address the question as asked.

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At the beginning of this thread, started by Everett Adams, he posted:

A I is taking over in many places replacing man, now A I is writing songs, will it be singing songs next. The beast that the bible speaks of that speaks will be A I, they are even now replacing the womb for having babies.

I responded to his post with this post:
The beast that the bible speaks of that speaks will be A I
No it is not

Everett responded:
Do you have inside information, what will it be. LOL

To which I responded:
No I don't have any inside information and neither does anyone else on planet earth...I have no problem if this is your opinion but when you state it as if it is fact, that borders on conspiracy theory and I will challenge it...non believers will probably just laugh at it

As a Christian, I took exception to Everett’s statement that AI was the Beast mentioned in the Bible, that speaks...there is much speculation today by scholars and zealots about AI being the Beast. The truth is no one knows, including Everett...to say otherwise is to spread misinformation..a massive problem everywhere in society today

What I found interesting is that I thought Everett was opening up a thread about AI, and that may have been his intention but he made a connection to the Bible, with which I have no problem, except for one thing...he chose not to defend his opening statement either by stating this was his opinion or providing some references of which there are many. I then have to wonder what his purpose was for starting the thread. Instead he seemed to go to a fall back position...Challenge Steve. Thereafter, on this subject I heard crickets.

More recently, Everett posted:
This world as we know it is fast coming to a climax, an end, just as the bible says it will. But don't worry, it will be renewed under new government and new management making it as was meant to be before man fell into sin and gave this world over to Satan and his demons. Satan's time is running out and he knows it and he intends to not surrender peacefully, he will take as many people with him to hell as he can, and destroy as much of this world as he can. It is all in the bible but only those that read it will see it happening until it happens, even then many will not believe.

To which I responded
This world as we know it is fast coming to a climax, an end, just as the bible says it will.
I must have missed the email....should I close out my stock portfolio..just in case...or are we talking a couple of million years from now? LOL

Similar to his original post he made, about the Beast, he has no information about the world as we know it fast coming to a climax and ending...I may be wrong but I kinda think this line has been used a couple of time in the past...make that probably thousands of times, and ridiculed by media over the decades
As a Christian, these kinds of statements make us all look (choose what ever word(s) you want to use here...LOL

Everett responded:
Your flippant fun poking remarks tell me just what kind of a Christian you are. You are of the Laodicea church that the bible talks about. You are not looking and hoping for the return of Christ that is for sure.

I responded:
Flippancy intended Everett...I will be back in a little while with some serious stuff

As you can clearly see, Everett did not defend his statement but he once again went to his fall back position, only this time he made it personal.

I will not respond in a similar fashion to Everett because Jesus made it clear to us all...we must forgive

What I will do is set the record straight when I see, hear or read Christians speak of things of which they have no knowledge as if it is fact and to be believed

There are in excess of 2 billion Christian on earth today, so there are in excess of 2 billion individual relationship with God...I am one of them and Everett is another...he believes in what he is doing to spread the word of God and I believe in what I am doing...I know not of where Everett is in his walk with Christ...but I am fully aware of where I am in mine and it gives me peace to know that God knows of my walk with Him

Steve


Creators of music have a responsibility to their craft. When they have finished using all the notes and words, they must pass them down to the next generation with a simple request. “Use these to create new music.”...Steven McDonald
VNORTH2 #1185615 03/24/23 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by VNORTH2
At the beginning of this thread, started by Everett Adams, he posted:

A I is taking over in many places replacing man, now A I is writing songs, will it be singing songs next. The beast that the bible speaks of that speaks will be A I, they are even now replacing the womb for having babies.

I responded to his post with this post:
The beast that the bible speaks of that speaks will be A I
No it is not

Everett responded:
Do you have inside information, what will it be. LOL

To which I responded:
No I don't have any inside information and neither does anyone else on planet earth...I have no problem if this is your opinion but when you state it as if it is fact, that borders on conspiracy theory and I will challenge it...non believers will probably just laugh at it

As a Christian, I took exception to Everett’s statement that AI was the Beast mentioned in the Bible, that speaks...there is much speculation today by scholars and zealots about AI being the Beast. The truth is no one knows, including Everett...to say otherwise is to spread misinformation..a massive problem everywhere in society today

What I found interesting is that I thought Everett was opening up a thread about AI, and that may have been his intention but he made a connection to the Bible, with which I have no problem, except for one thing...he chose not to defend his opening statement either by stating this was his opinion or providing some references of which there are many. I then have to wonder what his purpose was for starting the thread. Instead he seemed to go to a fall back position...Challenge Steve. Thereafter, on this subject I heard crickets.

More recently, Everett posted:
This world as we know it is fast coming to a climax, an end, just as the bible says it will. But don't worry, it will be renewed under new government and new management making it as was meant to be before man fell into sin and gave this world over to Satan and his demons. Satan's time is running out and he knows it and he intends to not surrender peacefully, he will take as many people with him to hell as he can, and destroy as much of this world as he can. It is all in the bible but only those that read it will see it happening until it happens, even then many will not believe.

To which I responded
This world as we know it is fast coming to a climax, an end, just as the bible says it will.
I must have missed the email....should I close out my stock portfolio..just in case...or are we talking a couple of million years from now? LOL

Similar to his original post he made, about the Beast, he has no information about the world as we know it fast coming to a climax and ending...I may be wrong but I kinda think this line has been used a couple of time in the past...make that probably thousands of times, and ridiculed by media over the decades
As a Christian, these kinds of statements make us all look (choose what ever word(s) you want to use here...LOL

Everett responded:
Your flippant fun poking remarks tell me just what kind of a Christian you are. You are of the Laodicea church that the bible talks about. You are not looking and hoping for the return of Christ that is for sure.

I responded:
Flippancy intended Everett...I will be back in a little while with some serious stuff

As you can clearly see, Everett did not defend his statement but he once again went to his fall back position, only this time he made it personal.

I will not respond in a similar fashion to Everett because Jesus made it clear to us all...we must forgive

What I will do is set the record straight when I see, hear or read Christians speak of things of which they have no knowledge as if it is fact and to be believed

There are in excess of 2 billion Christian on earth today, so there are in excess of 2 billion individual relationship with God...I am one of them and Everett is another...he believes in what he is doing to spread the word of God and I believe in what I am doing...I know not of where Everett is in his walk with Christ...but I am fully aware of where I am in mine and it gives me peace to know that God knows of my walk with Him

Steve

Nothing to disagree with, here.

You're a good man, Steve. smile

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 03/24/23 05:29 PM.

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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Everett...it seems you cannot post without condemning all who do not believe as you do...that everyone who does not see the world as you do....... is evil and deserves eternal hellfire

Jesus asked for and spread love....there were no threats made to those who did not follow.

Do you not see that by your constant reminder and fervent belief that you actually hope this will be true...you actually hope anyone who does not see the world like you WILL go to hell?

I wonder if so many "true believers" can even see how they can oft times come off smugly self-righteous, cuz I doubt it is their intent. If the one real God is okay with smugly self-righteous, I think I'd have a problem "believing"...in fact...that THAT was, indeed, the one real God whose beliefs they were following.

Or maybe it's just a case that we're all sinners and that's just one of their particular shortcomings.

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 03/24/23 05:59 PM.

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I believe the Christian way is to look at our commonalities and find ways to bring about a better world by working through those things, rather than focusing on our differences and delineating territorial battle lines.


Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

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Artificial Incorrectness... Lol

[This is not aimed at anyone in particular...]

If you're not seeking to serve God's will, then you are only serving your own...

There are only two kinds of people; Those who believe, and those who wander the earth.

I am who I am. You are who you are. If you choose to be offended by me... then, check your sense of "equity", fairness, and equality.

My faith is a God given gift, and my freedom is my God given right.

A Christian will recognize and condemn sin for what it is. If that's fascist, then so be it. However, the Spirit and God's Word does not commission or empower any man to subdue or oppress others in God's name. Only men enslave men; And only men invent reasons to argue.

"Political Correctness" is not morality... it is only man's self serving and flawed wisdom.

If I'm politically "incorrect", well then...
"Pearls before swine is all I have to offer..."

If you believe that to be an assault upon your integrity, why should I even pretend to care? Speaking politically, it's obvious nobody gives a damn if "I'M" insulted... and God has no use for man's convoluted politics.

However, speaking of the Spirit, the price for man's arrogance, rebellion, and gross indiscretion has already been paid.
God's judgment is perfectly justified.

"We Are All The Same..."

I believe we are all God's creation... Deal with it!

Requiring "definitive proof" of God is a useless circular argument that the fatuous and weak minded cling to with titillating glee. If the wisdom of the Bible isn't enough for you... that's your loss.

I mentioned on another thread, "Politics has gotten itself into the business of dictating morality." That's the real problem here, that's the source of the divisiveness. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't care so much why I pray...

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Tony,
One again, I asked a simple and direct question and got a side-wise answer.

Originally Posted by JAPOV
Requiring "definitive proof" of God is a useless circular argument that the fatuous and weak minded cling to with titillating glee. If the wisdom of the Bible isn't enough for you... that's your loss.


But I have AI at my house now. It's called chatMarty and it can understand and interpret Tony-speak.

Chat-Marty's interpretation of Tony-speak is...

"Martin is trying to trap me. Martin is trying to trap me into facing an issue head-on with empirical evidence and intellectual honesty. I'm not going to do that, because I can't. Any argument that I try to advance on that basis for the many proclamations that I assert would hit a wall and fall flat. So I spew-ramble off in some other direction, cast out base insults at his intelligence, etc."


Dang! AI is amazing. I'm guilty of just what it said.
Marty

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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Requiring "definitive proof" of God is a useless circular argument that the fatuous and weak minded cling to with titillating glee. If the wisdom of the Bible isn't enough for you... that's your loss.

As to the "weak minded" clinging to their circular argument with "titillating glee" --do you have any idea how you come across, when you say this?

I'm sorry. I must have missed that last Beatitude from Jesus, the one where he said, "and blessed are the smug and self-righteous, for their hot air will ascend them straight up to Heaven, beating out The Rapture crowd."

Technically speaking, "requiring proof" (of any kind) is NOT an argument, circular or otherwise. It's simply the stating of a need that a threshold be met before, in this case, "belief" can happen.

Perhaps you meant "trying to prove that God exists" will only result in circular arguments. If this were true, than maybe God can't be proven? And that faith must enter the picture?

What is faith? Is challenging ones faith a good thing or bad?

What's that joke...

*************************************************************************************************
There was a preacher who fell in the ocean and he couldn’t swim. When a boat came by, the captain yelled, “Do you need help, sir?” The preacher calmly said “No, God will save me.”

A little later, another boat came by and a fisherman asked, “Hey, do you need help?” The preacher replied again, “No God will save me.”

Eventually the preacher drowned & went to heaven. The preacher asked God, “Why didn’t you save me?” God replied, “Fool, I sent you two boats!”
****************************************************************************************************
My point? Maybe science and technological advancements are part of God's plan. There are many scientists who have no problem reconciling their "faith" with their science, knowing that God is on the side of a cure for cancer.

The Arts and Sciences and The Bible need not be at odds. It's just some people who desire that, some people who are always looking for differences to argue over.

Sign me up for chatMarty. So many chances to share in weak-minded, titillating glee, so little time.

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 03/25/23 12:35 AM.

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Lol... The first thing the Bible teaches me is that I'm not God. Then it goes on to say that the flesh is weak, fallable, and prone to sin. It also says the greatest of man's wisdom is just filthy rags and God hates pride and arrogance. It then continues with, only God the creator is worthy to forgive, and any man who would deny God is a liar. The Bible also clearly states that all men should fear and humble themselves before God, and any man who considers himself wise in this world is truly a fool.

In general, the truth of God's Word tends to put me in my place... Then, I find myself berated by doubters.

All truth is of God.
Man's knowledge and wisdom is only an argument with God...

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Tony

ChatMarty is infallible. You can't fool ChatMarty.

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What a can of worms I have started here by neglecting putting in one little word (it) in my opening statement. (Will (it) be A I). Steve, I am trying to follow the bible and it tells me to be born again of spirit, which I am, I'm not to be ashamed of the Gospel, which I am not, if I see someone heading toward destruction, I am to warn them, which I try to do, if I don't, I may be held responsible for their destruction. I don't know where you are on your Christian walk, I do know where I am and where I use to be. The first 37 years I thought I was a Christian because I was raised as one and went to church on special occasions, even read the bible from cover to cover once. I was a small c Christian; I knew about Jesus and the Father but knew little about the Holy Spirit because the denomination I went to did not preach the born-again experience and having a relationship with Jesus. When I seriously started reading the bible and searching for the truth, I started seeing that I was not all that good and I needed to accept Jesus as my Saviour because He was the one that paid for my sins on the cross, sins that I could never pay for. I'm not perfect, I still make mistakes, but He is faithful and just to forgive me my mistakes. I try not to offend anyone, but the bible says that the Gospel is an offence to anyone that is being lost. If I stay silent, I am not being a good witness for Jesus, I will gain Heaven but with no rewards. Love is the main theme of the bible, but love sometimes may seem harsh and hurt feeling, but discipline is a form of love, telling someone the truth can hurt, but it is a form of love. The bible says let him that has ears, hear, sometimes when we read things in the bible, do we really hear, does it really penetrate into our soul. I try not to come off as being Holier than thou, I am just a sinner saved by grace, having faith in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for my sins. It's good news for those that want to receive it, for those that don't want it, I guess it can be offensive and even insulting, that is not my intention, I'm just being obedient to my Lord.

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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
If I stay silent, I am not being a good witness for Jesus,


If your proselytizing comes across as intrusive, damning, condemning, condescending, all knowing, closed minded...?

Are you being a good witness for any purpose?

Or could the case be made that you are actually producing results contrary to your stated goals?

Does any of that matter Everett, or is the greatest concern what makes you feel fulfilled?

These are sincere questions.

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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
What a can of worms I have started here by neglecting putting in one little word (it) in my opening statement. (Will (it) be A I). Steve, I am trying to follow the bible and it tells me to be born again of spirit, which I am, I'm not to be ashamed of the Gospel, which I am not, if I see someone heading toward destruction, I am to warn them, which I try to do, if I don't, I may be held responsible for their destruction. I don't know where you are on your Christian walk, I do know where I am and where I use to be. The first 37 years I thought I was a Christian because I was raised as one and went to church on special occasions, even read the bible from cover to cover once. I was a small c Christian; I knew about Jesus and the Father but knew little about the Holy Spirit because the denomination I went to did not preach the born-again experience and having a relationship with Jesus. When I seriously started reading the bible and searching for the truth, I started seeing that I was not all that good and I needed to accept Jesus as my Saviour because He was the one that paid for my sins on the cross, sins that I could never pay for. I'm not perfect, I still make mistakes, but He is faithful and just to forgive me my mistakes. I try not to offend anyone, but the bible says that the Gospel is an offence to anyone that is being lost. If I stay silent, I am not being a good witness for Jesus, I will gain Heaven but with no rewards. Love is the main theme of the bible, but love sometimes may seem harsh and hurt feeling, but discipline is a form of love, telling someone the truth can hurt, but it is a form of love. The bible says let him that has ears, hear, sometimes when we read things in the bible, do we really hear, does it really penetrate into our soul. I try not to come off as being Holier than thou, I am just a sinner saved by grace, having faith in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for my sins. It's good news for those that want to receive it, for those that don't want it, I guess it can be offensive and even insulting, that is not my intention, I'm just being obedient to my Lord.


Thank you, Everett, for posting this..much appreciated

Steve


Creators of music have a responsibility to their craft. When they have finished using all the notes and words, they must pass them down to the next generation with a simple request. “Use these to create new music.”...Steven McDonald
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Not trying to pile on you Everett, but Christianity...and all morality...is based on The Golden Rule

That implies empathy for others and is the greatest tool to create a harmonius society

If as a Christian you spoke in those terms....and not in terms of ....I am right and you are going to hell if you don't believe like I do...it will be better received.

People might even see your path as one they want to follow...emulate your goodness

No one walks a path with someone carrying a baseball bat they use freely on others if they "get out of their line"...

But feed them, nurture them, bring them around with love.....that is IMO the Christian way



edit---just read the above post

I accept what you say as your truth, and simply urge you to consider using love instead of a threat of eternal violence, hellfire and damnation to bring others to your POV


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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
and all morality...is based on The Golden Rule

For whatever it's worth, in my un-credentialed opinion, I agree that every philosophical doctrine ever produced can be distilled down to the Golden Rule. It may be an edict from God. If it isn't, at the very least...a very sound principal.

*except in the case of sadomasochists...and such. wink

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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
What a can of worms I have started here by neglecting putting in one little word (it) in my opening statement. (Will (it) be A I). Steve, I am trying to follow the bible and it tells me to be born again of spirit, which I am, I'm not to be ashamed of the Gospel, which I am not, if I see someone heading toward destruction, I am to warn them, which I try to do, if I don't, I may be held responsible for their destruction. I don't know where you are on your Christian walk, I do know where I am and where I use to be. The first 37 years I thought I was a Christian because I was raised as one and went to church on special occasions, even read the bible from cover to cover once. I was a small c Christian; I knew about Jesus and the Father but knew little about the Holy Spirit because the denomination I went to did not preach the born-again experience and having a relationship with Jesus. When I seriously started reading the bible and searching for the truth, I started seeing that I was not all that good and I needed to accept Jesus as my Saviour because He was the one that paid for my sins on the cross, sins that I could never pay for. I'm not perfect, I still make mistakes, but He is faithful and just to forgive me my mistakes. I try not to offend anyone, but the bible says that the Gospel is an offence to anyone that is being lost. If I stay silent, I am not being a good witness for Jesus, I will gain Heaven but with no rewards. Love is the main theme of the bible, but love sometimes may seem harsh and hurt feeling, but discipline is a form of love, telling someone the truth can hurt, but it is a form of love. The bible says let him that has ears, hear, sometimes when we read things in the bible, do we really hear, does it really penetrate into our soul. I try not to come off as being Holier than thou, I am just a sinner saved by grace, having faith in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for my sins. It's good news for those that want to receive it, for those that don't want it, I guess it can be offensive and even insulting, that is not my intention, I'm just being obedient to my Lord.

The Spirit is certainly "key" to faith and salvation. Without the gift of Spirit we would all be lost; And that gift was given to us out of love by our creator.

"Love"... What a risky proposition; Even for God.

Consider this...
All of us here are "creative spirits". We create music, and we do it out of love for the art. We devote our time and effort into our songs in the hope that they will reward and validate our talent. There's a pride associated with producing a "brand new thing" by the will of our hearts and minds, and the work of our own hands. Our expectations guide and motivate our work, and we only hope for the best.

However, expectation simply isn't enough. Sometimes our masterpieces are very disappointing. So, out of love... what do we do?

JAPOV #1185654 03/25/23 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
However, expectation simply isn't enough. Sometimes our masterpieces are very disappointing. So, out of love... what do we do?

So when an all powerful, all knowing God created the entire universe...several things about it were a "hit-and-miss?"
Like this song, that I'm currently trying to iron out.

But then, HE tried....

Maybe. wink

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Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
Originally Posted by JAPOV
However, expectation simply isn't enough. Sometimes our masterpieces are very disappointing. So, out of love... what do we do?

So when an all powerful, all knowing God created the entire universe...several things about it were a "hit-and-miss?"
Like this song, that I'm currently trying to iron out.

But then, HE tried....

Maybe. wink
"Several things"...?
No Marty, just us. Free will is a real B!tCh... but, yes, God knew that.

BTW... I'd be willing to give your drumz and bass the "Tonester" Tx wink

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Originally Posted by JAPOV
No Marty, just us. Free will is a real B!tCh... but, yes, God knew that.

BTW... I'd be willing to give your drumz and bass the "Tonester" Tx wink

Yep. Omniscient being/creator of all ...creates humanoids and grants them free will...knowing exactly which ones will go off the rails and be damned for eternity, even before they are actually created. Heard that as a late teen for the first time. Still processing it all these years later. wink

I've been working on that song for over 4 months. I appreciate your suggestions and offer but I am needing to move on from it.
Brought the bass up about 3db per your suggestions and it enhanced it. Appreciated.
Prolly gonna call it good as it stands now, install it on DKID and monitor people ignoring it. wink
I've got an old song on deck to rehab.

Thanks again Tonester.
Marty

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You are welcome Steve. The written word does not always convey emotion, it can sound harsh and condemning, not loving and concerning, as meant to be. I spent almost half my life thinking I was alright and was defensive when someone challenge my walk with God, but I'm glad they did. It made me start reading the bible and I found out they were right. I was walking in my own sight as to what was right or wrong. I thought I was righteous, but the bible said myself righteousness was to God as filthy rags. I needed the righteousness of Jesus before I could come before a righteous God, I had to accept the righteousness of His Son. I never knew that, I had to learn what that meant. There are so many good upstanding people that think they are going to gain Heaven because they are good and upstanding. If we could gain Heaven by being good, then why did God have to send His Son to die, because we are all sinners, we are born in sin with the original sin of Adam in us, so we need that sin paid for, which Jesus did, but we have to believe this and accept it, if not, we are still in our sin. I don't tell people this to look down on them or to puff myself up as being Holy, I do it because others did it for me and I am just passing it on. There is a saying, if every won one, won one, then the whole world could be saved.

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I consider Everett a friend, and know that he probably worries I might be headed for "the bad place" and that is actually kind of sweet, when I think about it. There's not a wicked bone in his body, and his worry for us, here, is that we are doomed to an afterlife of suffering. He really believes these things.

But "belief" can only go so far in a world where others believe differently.

This is as it should be. Share those beliefs with me, even tell me you think my beliefs doom me, and if you really want to sell me, for lack of better words, be nice, set a good example, and I might even want to follow your example.

With some, you can feel the seething hatred oozing out of their words. Their words don't seem to come from a concerned, charitable place, inside, but from someplace else. Those people will only convince me that they are just projecting some free floating anxiety out into the world, for whatever reason. I should know--I've done my share of that, over the years.

I'm basically an aging hippie who has never shared his beliefs, because they're kind of unclear, even to me: I MAKE things, and put ALL my energy into that, leaving little time to contemplate "who I am and what I believe" --and maybe my making of things is simply a running away from knowing myself. Could be.

But at the end of the day, I have my nice, shiny "thing" I've made, to enjoy and share. And if we peel away all our layers, who are we, really?

It's somehow far easier for me to know what I don't believe and who I ain't, haha.

Can we "know ourselves" by process of negation?

If so, then maybe I know myself, just a little.

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 03/26/23 07:27 PM.

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Thank you Michael, I appreciate your kind words and I consider you a friend, and I think you are closer to our Lord than even you realize. I know there are Christians that do over do their desire to point out to non-Christians that they are heading the wrong way. I'm sure they have good intentions, but we know the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Telling someone they are heading for hell is not easy for the teller or the receiver, I know because I've been on both ends of that conversation, it is not easy. Some receive it kindly but others not so much. Life is never a smooth road, but if it leads to destruction there should at least be some warning signs on it telling what is ahead, telling that person to turn around or take a detour. That is all that I am, a warning sign, and we know people often ignore warning signs. Michael, I wish you and your sister a happy Easter, I pray that you will attend a church of your choosing to thank Jesus for His sacrifice. I try thanking Him every day but thanks doesn't seem a strong enough word to use for what He has done. God bless.

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I fell in love with AI
but it broke my heart
then it wrote me a love poem
to reboot and restart
our affair of the ages
such a strange escapade
how can you refuse when
AI knows just what to say


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Artificial Incorrectness... Lol

I mentioned on another thread, "Politics has gotten itself into the business of dictating morality." That's the real problem here, that's the source of the divisiveness. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't care so much why I pray...

I love how you guys just bury me in your diatribe and completely ignore my point... typical.

If you think it's bad now, just wait until the "superior wisdom and logic" of AI truly catches on.

The future looks very bleak to me...

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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
I fell in love with AI
but it broke my heart
then it wrote me a love poem
to reboot and restart
our affair of the ages
such a strange escapade
how can you refuse when
AI knows just what to say

OK John

Did you really write this little poem or did you ask AI to write a poem about writing a poem and did it write the poem after studying the poetic works of John Voorpostel...because when I read the poem there are traces of JV in the writing but I'm not sure.....and did I really write this post or was it ....AGGGHHH....LOL


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There's a growing tribe of lesser minds (sheeple) who propagate the notion that it's inappropriate for Christians to be insulted or angry. Then, they have the audacity to suggest all Christians are simply delusional...

I have no love for that kind of obvious treachery and political bias. It's evil. It's like the king who justifies war by convincing his army that the enemy isn't even human.

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Originally Posted by VNORTH2
Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
I fell in love with AI
but it broke my heart
then it wrote me a love poem
to reboot and restart
our affair of the ages
such a strange escapade
how can you refuse when
AI knows just what to say

OK John

Did you really write this little poem or did you ask AI to write a poem about writing a poem and did it write the poem after studying the poetic works of John Voorpostel...because when I read the poem there are traces of JV in the writing but I'm not sure.....and did I really write this post or was it ....AGGGHHH....LOL

That's funny, like a modern version of this:

“Once upon a time, I dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was myself. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man.” ― Zhuangzi, The Butterfly as Companion: Meditations on the First Three Chapters of the Chuang-Tzu

This also reminds me of one of my favorite people, Laurie Anderson. A recording artist/visual artist/performance artist going back to the early Eighties, still relevant. She was recently presented by The Australian Art Institute with an AI version of The Bible, written to sound like her.

Now Anderson uses that same AI program to generate new works in her own style:

https://twitter.com/60Minutes/status/1551354290228195329

Her observations aren't unlike mine, over the years. Most of what an AI "art/music/poetry" generator will create is crap, but if you have a keen eye/ear, there's gold in there as well, and the kind of stuff you would never have thought of, on your own.

Wow...this feels like we've come full circle, haha...

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 03/27/23 01:18 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by VNORTH2
Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
I fell in love with AI
but it broke my heart
then it wrote me a love poem
to reboot and restart
our affair of the ages
such a strange escapade
how can you refuse when
AI knows just what to say

OK John

Did you really write this little poem or did you ask AI to write a poem about writing a poem and did it write the poem after studying the poetic works of John Voorpostel...because when I read the poem there are traces of JV in the writing but I'm not sure.....and did I really write this post or was it ....AGGGHHH....LOL

That's funny, like a modern version of this:

“Once upon a time, I dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was myself. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man.” ― Zhuangzi, The Butterfly as Companion: Meditations on the First Three Chapters of the Chuang-Tzu

This also reminds me of one of my favorite people, Laurie Anderson. A recording artist/visual artist/performance artist going back to the early Eighties, still relevant. She was recently presented by The Australian Art Institute with an AI version of The Bible, written to sound like her.

Now Anderson uses that same AI program to generate new works in her own style:

https://twitter.com/60Minutes/status/1551354290228195329

Her observations aren't unlike mine, over the years. Most of what an AI "art/music/poetry" generator will create is crap, but if you have a keen eye/ear, there's gold in there as well, and the kind of stuff you would never have thought of, on your own.

Wow...this feels like we've come full circle, haha...

Back in the day I did a little computer programming 1970's and we called it being caught up in a Do Loop...LOL
Steve


Creators of music have a responsibility to their craft. When they have finished using all the notes and words, they must pass them down to the next generation with a simple request. “Use these to create new music.”...Steven McDonald
JAPOV #1185730 03/27/23 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
There's a growing tribe of lesser minds (sheeple) who propagate the notion that it's inappropriate for Christians to be insulted or angry. Then, they have the audacity to suggest all Christians are simply delusional...

I have no love for that kind of obvious treachery and political bias. It's evil. It's like the king who justifies war by convincing his army that the enemy isn't even human.

Ton'
Did you take your meds this morning?

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Ill pick it up Tony

You are absolutely right that laws are passed to dictate morality and any kind of situation where you need to find a stick because you want to beat a dog

Remember the laws passed to make Guantanamo legal...to bypass international conventions and such?

In a country of laws, laws are shaped by people, and initiated for a reason.....and that could be selfish ....for the powerful who can pay to have legislation passed

Throw AI into the mix to skate through all kinds of human rights loopholes????

But let me throw that old trope people use to defend the freedom to own guns....guns don't kill people, people kill people


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
But let me throw that old trope people use to defend the freedom to own guns....guns don't kill people, people kill people

Worry about guns in your own country John. Down here in Texas, USA (not Canada) we want our guns and don't need any help thinking about it.
I sleep well at night because the revolver that can deliver 410s is in easy reach.

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Originally Posted by Sunset Poet
Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
But let me throw that old trope people use to defend the freedom to own guns....guns don't kill people, people kill people

Worry about guns in your own country John. Down here in Texas, USA (not Canada) we want our guns and don't need any help thinking about it.
I sleep well at night because the revolver that can deliver 410s is in easy reach.

You should know better, John, every time you poke the bear, it takes the bait...all that is left to say is ...GOTCHA LOL

Steve


Creators of music have a responsibility to their craft. When they have finished using all the notes and words, they must pass them down to the next generation with a simple request. “Use these to create new music.”...Steven McDonald
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Man Marty...touchy as ^&(*&( .....

fly off the handle just because I use an analogy that involves using guns\AI against people ?????

the only thing I said was that you cannot blame AI for the actions of people (Tony's point)


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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This just in

Another mass shooting in the US today 6 dead, including 3 children so sad...year to date mass killings in US 128... Canada 4..thank goodness we don’t have to worry about guns up here..maybe it’s because ownership is a privilege and not a right in the Great White North...but then 4 is way too many for us.

I’m quite happy to let the US win this contest every year....forever...sleep peacefully, John

Sadly this post can be bumped to the top more than once a day because it will be relevant

Last edited by VNORTH2; 03/27/23 03:41 PM.

Creators of music have a responsibility to their craft. When they have finished using all the notes and words, they must pass them down to the next generation with a simple request. “Use these to create new music.”...Steven McDonald
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