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JAPOV #1183082 12/06/22 02:41 PM
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I don't dislike business people. That's Tony. smile I don't begrudge them what they have earned.
What do they profess socio-politically?
Do they have any plans for re-shaping society?
If so...what do those plans entail?

If you mean the Irving family, they own a lot but mostly privately held...at one time they owned most of the media in New Brunswick...both French and English...they tend to have a low profile politically here...years ago there were some battles...they have no doubt played a big part in shaping society, here, particularly in New Brunswick...at one time they were New Brunswick

overall they are a significant force in this part of our country and are the reason Halifax(read Irving) was awarded the 35-40 Billion ship building contract which will employ thousands for the next decade plus...and after decades of Nova Scotia trying to reach a population of 1 Million, it was achieved in 2021 directly because of the ship building...not gonna find many Maritimers being unhappy with the Irvings...Overall they're good corporate citizens...

if the pluses and minuses are totalled up, they have a pretty good track record notwithstanding their dominance here


VNORTH2
JAPOV #1183083 12/06/22 03:00 PM
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A headline from Google’s news feed: “Scientists have successfully recreated a dinosaur from chicken DNA!” (Exclamation point theirs) Below the headline, they claimed to have “proven how evolution works.”

My fascination with dinosaurs began at an early age. My second-grade class was flooded with books on them, telling my 7-year-old wide-eyed self what dinos evolved from and into and how many millions and millions of years ago it happened. And those books had the illustrations to prove it.

I loved the first Jurassic Park (The sequels get worse in order of appearance), which seemed obsessed with idea that dinos “evolved” into birds and offered flimsy evidence to support it. So, this was not a new idea. There’s even a line of dialogue in The Mentalist where Patrick Jane claims birds are tiny dinos. It’s in the disappointing episode where Red John is revealed. (No evidence offered, of course) The dimbulb character Rigsby doesn’t say it, Jane does, so the audience is supposed to take it as fact.

I clicked on the article which featured a video. Looks like it’s from a respected periodical, The Archaeologist. Google “chicken DNA” and it’ll come right up.

I watched/listened to the video several times, knowing exactly what I would get. The opposite of what the headline claimed. This always happens when you read an article claiming a fossil finding will “rewrite the history of human evolution”. A few bone scraps from an extinct monkey, an artist’s depiction of a half-ape/half-human brute, and fanciful speculation.

And that’s what happened with the chicken/dinosaur. Was there video of a living, breathing brontosaurus?
No.

The video is ten minutes, 1/4th of which is spent on dinos in pop culture, accompanied by realistic-looking animation along with clips of Jurassic Park. The video’s narrator asserts that voluminous bird fossils prove dinos evolved into birds yet offers no evidence. This, despite wasting a chunk of the video on pop culture.
The narrator also claims research has proved birds can become dinos. I’ve lived in the country for decades and no dino has ever emerged from a bird egg.

And they never will. Darwin’s finches are still, and will forever remain, finches.

The meat of their experiment is this: they slightly modified the shape of a chicken’s beak. They call it, “Chickenosaurus”. (I didn’t make that up)

That’s it.

While describing the modifications, the video admits bird genes are different from reptile and mammal genes. This fact points to special creation, not “evolution”. It also admits dino snouts are different from bird beaks. They had to intentionally genetically alter them.

As in the case of flashy music videos distracting the audience from how weak a song actually is, this “scientific” video continually runs clips of animated dinos, interspersed with scenes from Jurassic Park. Shamelessly, they show the scene where Grant, Ellie, Malcolm and Hammond are gathered around in astonishment, watching velociraptors hatch.
Then they admit they didn’t allow their “dino” eggs to hatch. Were I seven years old, I’d have been completely snookered by the computerized animation, just as I was by the illustrations in those old books. Indoctrinated into the Church of Evolution as a child.


Conclusions:

1. If by “proving how evolution works”, they mean slightly altering an animal’s appearance by deliberate genetic interference, they succeeded. All they proved was that such alterations need an intelligent mind and a skilled guiding hand. Nothing “evolved” in and of itself. Evolution is a hoax. Many are emotionally invested in it, resulting in expensive, time-consuming experiments designed to prop up the hoax. What do they have to show for this one? Winner, winner-chicken dinner!

2. The video relentlessly gives the credentials of the people who worked on the chickenosaurus. *snicker*. Harvard, evolutionary biologist etc. Fine. One guy says their experiment is like the moon landing. It can happen! Dinosaurs will once again roam the earth. They just need to stick to it. An earlier similar experiment took seven years, and they admit its results were “inconsequential”. The moon landing took less than a decade and produced actual results.


3. I was a horror movie buff when younger. Not the demented stuff that’s out there now. I remember Island of Lost Souls with Bela Lugosi. These “scientists” talk in the video about using mice to elongate the tails of chickens and other similar ideas.
I find that (and them) extremely creepy. These guys are the descendants of Dr. Moreau. There are other modern “scientific” experiments that remind me of Dr. Mengele.

4. There’s a quote in the Bible book of Romans that applies here, “…the basic reality of God is plain enough. Open your eyes and there it is! By taking a long and thoughtful look at what God has created, people have always been able to see what their eyes as such can’t see: eternal power, for instance, and the mystery of his divine being. So nobody has a good excuse. What happened was this: People knew God perfectly well, but when they didn’t treat him like God, refusing to worship him, they trivialized themselves into silliness and confusion so that there was neither sense nor direction left in their lives. They pretended to know it all but were illiterate regarding life…” (Romans 1:19-22 The Message)


All glory to God and His Son, Jesus Christ, who created all things. (Hebrews 1:1-3, 11:3)





Robert George 12/6/2022


Nashville demos etc:

https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=431939

other demos:

https://soundcloud.com/wabash-cannibal

Amazon Kindle books by Robert George you may enjoy:

1) Americana

2) Teenage Graceland

3) The Will to Be

4) Fort Mystery

5) Wheel Sea

6) My One True Love
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Originally Posted by VNORTH2
I don't dislike business people. That's Tony. smile I don't begrudge them what they have earned.
What do they profess socio-politically?
Do they have any plans for re-shaping society?
If so...what do those plans entail?

If you mean the Irving family, they own a lot but mostly privately held...at one time they owned most of the media in New Brunswick...both French and English...they tend to have a low profile politically here...years ago there were some battles...they have no doubt played a big part in shaping society, here, particularly in New Brunswick...at one time they were New Brunswick

overall they are a significant force in this part of our country and are the reason Halifax(read Irving) was awarded the 35-40 Billion ship building contract which will employ thousands for the next decade plus...and after decades of Nova Scotia trying to reach a population of 1 Million, it was achieved in 2021 directly because of the ship building...not gonna find many Maritimers being unhappy with the Irvings...Overall they're good corporate citizens...

if the pluses and minuses are totalled up, they have a pretty good track record notwithstanding their dominance here

Steve

I have nothing against some family I never even heard of until today.
I have nothing against whoever may own the King Ranch in SE Texas. Know very little about them other than the ranch is huge and it has an F150 named after.

But neither one of those is a Tech billionaire, with publicly known dubious personal morals, yet holding some secular sanctimonious vision for the future of mankind...now wholesale buying up farms in America.

And worst of all....revered by meddlesome foreign nationals....Canadians. Y'all got your own country to screw up. I'll leave you to it. smile

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Originally Posted by couchgrouch
A headline from Google’s news feed: “Scientists have successfully recreated a dinosaur from chicken DNA!” (Exclamation point theirs) Below the headline, they claimed to have “proven how evolution works.”

My fascination with dinosaurs began at an early age. My second-grade class was flooded with books on them, telling my 7-year-old wide-eyed self what dinos evolved from and into and how many millions and millions of years ago it happened. And those books had the illustrations to prove it.

I loved the first Jurassic Park (The sequels get worse in order of appearance), which seemed obsessed with idea that dinos “evolved” into birds and offered flimsy evidence to support it. So, this was not a new idea. There’s even a line of dialogue in The Mentalist where Patrick Jane claims birds are tiny dinos. It’s in the disappointing episode where Red John is revealed. (No evidence offered, of course) The dimbulb character Rigsby doesn’t say it, Jane does, so the audience is supposed to take it as fact.

I clicked on the article which featured a video. Looks like it’s from a respected periodical, The Archaeologist. Google “chicken DNA” and it’ll come right up.

I watched/listened to the video several times, knowing exactly what I would get. The opposite of what the headline claimed. This always happens when you read an article claiming a fossil finding will “rewrite the history of human evolution”. A few bone scraps from an extinct monkey, an artist’s depiction of a half-ape/half-human brute, and fanciful speculation.

And that’s what happened with the chicken/dinosaur. Was there video of a living, breathing brontosaurus?
No.

The video is ten minutes, 1/4th of which is spent on dinos in pop culture, accompanied by realistic-looking animation along with clips of Jurassic Park. The video’s narrator asserts that voluminous bird fossils prove dinos evolved into birds yet offers no evidence. This, despite wasting a chunk of the video on pop culture.
The narrator also claims research has proved birds can become dinos. I’ve lived in the country for decades and no dino has ever emerged from a bird egg.

And they never will. Darwin’s finches are still, and will forever remain, finches.

The meat of their experiment is this: they slightly modified the shape of a chicken’s beak. They call it, “Chickenosaurus”. (I didn’t make that up)

That’s it.

While describing the modifications, the video admits bird genes are different from reptile and mammal genes. This fact points to special creation, not “evolution”. It also admits dino snouts are different from bird beaks. They had to intentionally genetically alter them.

As in the case of flashy music videos distracting the audience from how weak a song actually is, this “scientific” video continually runs clips of animated dinos, interspersed with scenes from Jurassic Park. Shamelessly, they show the scene where Grant, Ellie, Malcolm and Hammond are gathered around in astonishment, watching velociraptors hatch.
Then they admit they didn’t allow their “dino” eggs to hatch. Were I seven years old, I’d have been completely snookered by the computerized animation, just as I was by the illustrations in those old books. Indoctrinated into the Church of Evolution as a child.


Conclusions:

1. If by “proving how evolution works”, they mean slightly altering an animal’s appearance by deliberate genetic interference, they succeeded. All they proved was that such alterations need an intelligent mind and a skilled guiding hand. Nothing “evolved” in and of itself. Evolution is a hoax. Many are emotionally invested in it, resulting in expensive, time-consuming experiments designed to prop up the hoax. What do they have to show for this one? Winner, winner-chicken dinner!

2. The video relentlessly gives the credentials of the people who worked on the chickenosaurus. *snicker*. Harvard, evolutionary biologist etc. Fine. One guy says their experiment is like the moon landing. It can happen! Dinosaurs will once again roam the earth. They just need to stick to it. An earlier similar experiment took seven years, and they admit its results were “inconsequential”. The moon landing took less than a decade and produced actual results.


3. I was a horror movie buff when younger. Not the demented stuff that’s out there now. I remember Island of Lost Souls with Bela Lugosi. These “scientists” talk in the video about using mice to elongate the tails of chickens and other similar ideas.
I find that (and them) extremely creepy. These guys are the descendants of Dr. Moreau. There are other modern “scientific” experiments that remind me of Dr. Mengele.

4. There’s a quote in the Bible book of Romans that applies here, “…the basic reality of God is plain enough. Open your eyes and there it is! By taking a long and thoughtful look at what God has created, people have always been able to see what their eyes as such can’t see: eternal power, for instance, and the mystery of his divine being. So nobody has a good excuse. What happened was this: People knew God perfectly well, but when they didn’t treat him like God, refusing to worship him, they trivialized themselves into silliness and confusion so that there was neither sense nor direction left in their lives. They pretended to know it all but were illiterate regarding life…” (Romans 1:19-22 The Message)


All glory to God and His Son, Jesus Christ, who created all things. (Hebrews 1:1-3, 11:3)





Robert George 12/6/2022

But, but, Grouch! Bent bird beaks has ALWAYS been the proof!
It's UNDENIABLE!!!

Lol... wink

JAPOV #1183086 12/06/22 04:09 PM
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Robert

There are people who think that the earth was created about 5000 years ago. Do you?

Question 2: Do you think that dinosaurs existed at all, or is that a hoax?
Question 3: What about the Llamas? Did Noah stow away a couple of Llamas? If so, where did he get them?

Marty wink

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And worst of all....revered by meddlesome foreign nationals....Canadians. Y'all got your own country to screw up. I'll leave you to it. smile[/quote]


Marty

How could you possibly think we would meddle in your country? Aren't we the politest people on earth. I personally apologize 50+ times a day...and even if we did it would only be because Canada shuts down near the end of September and doesn't open up again until the first of May....we need something to do over the winter

With regard to purchasing land, 80% of Canada is up for grabs so if Gates, or anyone else wants any they can get it pretty cheap and no one will ever bother them...no one is there because it's not livable

90% of Canadians live within 100 miles of the US in a half dozen cities...we can keep warm from the heat rising from the US


VNORTH2
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Originally Posted by VNORTH2
And worst of all....revered by meddlesome foreign nationals....Canadians. Y'all got your own country to screw up. I'll leave you to it. smile


Marty

How could you possibly think we would meddle in your country? Aren't we the politest people on earth. I personally apologize 50+ times a day...and even if we did it would only be because Canada shuts down near the end of September and doesn't open up again until the first of May....we need something to do over the winter

With regard to purchasing land, 80% of Canada is up for grabs so if Gates, or anyone else wants any they can get it pretty cheap and no one will ever bother them...no one is there because it's not livable

90% of Canadians live within 100 miles of the US in a half dozen cities...we can keep warm from the heat rising from the US

I saw a map recently showing where most of the Canadians are. Never realized it before, but Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec City and Toronto are well south of the Maine/Canada border and the 49th parallel. Wife and I have Old Town Quebec on our todo list in the next couple of years. Covid and flying killed our original attempt.

Tell you what...see if you can coax Bill Gates into living up there. I mean, he almost does. It's not a long move for him. You can have DJT too.

JAPOV #1183089 12/06/22 05:25 PM
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I saw a map recently showing where most of the Canadians are. Never realized it before, but Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec City and Toronto are well south of the Maine/Canada border and the 49th parallel. Wife and I have Old Town Quebec on our todo list in the next couple of years. Covid and flying killed our original attempt.

Tell you what...see if you can coax Bill Gates into living up there. I mean, he almost does. It's not a long move for him. You can have DJT too.

I used to live in Toronto and Montreal and spent time in Quebec City...I give you this guarantee...you will not be disappointed visiting any of those cities, particularly Quebec whose history goes back hundreds of years...very European feel ...

I'll give Bill a call and see what I can do, he's just south of Vancouver...however we're in the middle of building a 5000 mile border wall with the US for the sole purpose of keeping DJT out so I don't think the Donald deal will happen


VNORTH2
JAPOV #1183090 12/06/22 06:28 PM
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Anybody know if @Gavin Sinclair has power?

JAPOV #1183091 12/06/22 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
I just think it's a bit more than "ironic coincidence" that Bullshit Bill not only leads the fight against cow farts in the name of global warming... but he's heavy into GMO's, and his farms produce mainly corn, soy, and potatoes; So, he obviously caters to the "junk food" industry that's trashing the oceans. AT THE SAME TIME, pretending like he gives a damn about human health, he makes a killing in "big pharma" research and development, including diabetes medication. Consequently, instead of insulin dependence, A1C became the standard for diagnosing diabetes around the same time the Obama's claimed it to be an epidemic, and Michelle instituted her "school lunch program".

So, in short..., Billy Brainfart, big pharma, and the FDA, claim the authority to feed us GMO and steroid saturated $hit for our own good, then pump us all full of medication so we all meet Obamacare standards.
Really, no comment?

JAPOV #1183094 12/07/22 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Originally Posted by JAPOV
I just think it's a bit more than "ironic coincidence" that Bullshit Bill not only leads the fight against cow farts in the name of global warming... but he's heavy into GMO's, and his farms produce mainly corn, soy, and potatoes; So, he obviously caters to the "junk food" industry that's trashing the oceans. AT THE SAME TIME, pretending like he gives a damn about human health, he makes a killing in "big pharma" research and development, including diabetes medication. Consequently, instead of insulin dependence, A1C became the standard for diagnosing diabetes around the same time the Obama's claimed it to be an epidemic, and Michelle instituted her "school lunch program".

So, in short..., Billy Brainfart, big pharma, and the FDA, claim the authority to feed us GMO and steroid saturated $hit for our own good, then pump us all full of medication so we all meet Obamacare standards.
Really, no comment?

I'll take the bait Tony.
I don't consider every "philanthropic" thing that Gates does as malevolent. I have no way of knowing what motives are in his mind in all of these cases. A piece of it may simply be "God complex." I'm reluctant to wrapping everything he does up into a narrated package that concisely nails it all to full-on conspiratorial aims. I watched CNN do that for 5 years to Trump. Your post looks like the other teams version of that. It seems too concisely selective in the dots that it connects.

As for buying farms and professing various "Great Reset" goals....that leaves a trail of accumulated farmland and videos, which is factually disturbing.

Im (often wrong) o...the great reset wont be done by Bill Gates. His farms aren't in the center ring. It will be a confluence of biomedical labs, gene selection, bionic chips and AI. (e.g. Musk and the monkeys, Neuralink) The scary thing is wondering who will decide who is to become the super race and who decides which of the rest of us is sterilized out of the gene pool. At this time, we are still a global hoard of mostly hairless high-functioning animals. Not much you can "re-set" or organize with that, that wont be undone quickly by economic collapse and war and dysfunction. It is not paranoid to say that the stage is currently set for a dramatic economic contraction.

Your turn Tony. wink

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and his farms produce mainly corn, soy, and potatoes...

OMG. Go figure, he’s growing corn and soy and... wait for it...potatoes...what is this world coming to...quick, shut down Ireland...we need to investigate Iowa...too much soy and corn growing there...and then there’s Idaho...my goodness, growing those dastardly potatoes...next thing you know we’ll have to look into the potato problem in P.E.I in Canada


So, he obviously caters to the "junk food" industry that's trashing the oceans...

two points for creativity and connectivity.... you haven’t lost it yet


A1C became the standard for diagnosing diabetes...

it saved my life


Michelle instituted her "school lunch program" ...

Imagine, making sure kids are being fed properly, and heaven forbid we should have nutritional standards


he makes a killing in "big pharma" research and development...duh, someone making money on R & D....and he’s a billionaire on top of that

Usually I would give a post like this an “F” but because this is so funny you get a “Z”...I may have to come up with an expanded alphabet in the future...LOL


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I am now convinced that you are not who you say you are Steve

Who did I say I was?

Really, no comment?


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I had a Jewish Orthodox friend, the real kind, the one who went home at sundown on Saturdays...and always got out of work early...

His BELIEF was that Dinsosaurs were from a previous world, not THIS one.

Now we can speculate and say that everything in the Bible refers to ONLY this current world of say 10,000 years, where the earth was stable and life has been able to flourish. And forget about the millions and billions of years prior, where the Earth was barren and at times, frozen and covered in water.

Anything can be twisted to support our story.

But i will say... All glory to God and His Son, Jesus Christ, who created all things. (Hebrews 1:1-3, 11:3)

Thats great when we think of the beauty in the world, but when we think of the ugliness in the world, what just, loving, inteillgent God, would create the world the way it is.

"wow look at that beautiful Mountain scape, breath taking."

but we can also say that about man made structures like mansions and sky scrapers

Why did God create rats, and bats, and mosquitoes and those gray things underneath rocks....WHY?????? and Deadly bacteria and viruses...remember HE created everything. And how do you explain the Jonas Brothers?

Why did HE create an Earth prone to earthquakes and volcanoes that erupt and kill.

God loves me, he gave me two beautiful children and a wife"

But he didn't care about the poor homeless guy with not one endearing quality. He only loves YOU

It's a crazy puzzle, Logically, God makes no sense.

Spiritually and emotionally, maybe HE does.

And God created this skeptical mind, or is that my fault?

If there is a life force i might hang on to that, but none of this make sense. I struggle and ask for forgiveness for being dubious.

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Sunset Poet wrote

There are people who think that the earth was created about 5000 years ago. Do you?

I know you addressed this to Robert, Marty, but if you asked me and my answer was yes, what would you think?

Steve


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Originally Posted by VNORTH2
Sunset Poet wrote

There are people who think that the earth was created about 5000 years ago. Do you?

I know you addressed this to Robert, Marty, but if you asked me and my answer was yes, what would you think?

Steve

I believe the information contained in the following video is reasonably accurate and reliable, amongst many other similar things that are reasonably accurate and reliable.

So to anyone who believes that the universe's creation occurred at the beginning of the Bronze Age, I'd say...not so.

https://www.worldhistory.org/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe/

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Why try and prove and disprove what can only be decided by faith?

It is impossible to try and prove physical reality through use of the Bible of Koran or any holy book designed to impart life lessons

They are simply not intended to be scientific textbooks.

Let science uncover the provable truths of our universe and let religion help us lead "good" lives.


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Why try and prove and disprove what can only be decided by faith?

It is impossible to try and prove physical reality through use of the Bible of Koran or any holy book designed to impart life lessons

They are simply not intended to be scientific textbooks.

Let science uncover the provable truths of our universe and let religion help us lead "good" lives.

To some people that viewpoint relegates religious writings to being codes of ethics and not absolute truths dictated by a creator.
That's fine with me. The GOLDEN RULE is not only sensible. It is essentially Aristotelian & Mill-ish..
But Tony, for instance, would probably not be aligned with that suggested viewpoint.

As for me, I'm agnostic. Not only can I only say that I dunno whether religious writings are accurate and fact based, but I cannot with absolutely certainty say that anything that I did not personally witness is true. That's a lot of things.

Therefore, alas...onward through the fog....but never stop thinking.

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The Bible

The Bible, a collection of 66 books, is said to be the inspired word of God.
There is no evidence that the Bible is the inspired word of God.

Do I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God? YES

It is divided into the Old Testament and the New Testament.
The books of the Bible were chosen by humans over many years and are said to be the only books of the Bible.

Do I believe the books of the Bible are the only books of the Bible? YES
.
There is no evidence God created the heavens and earth.

Do I believe God created the heavens and earth. YES

There is no evidence the writers of the Bible were telling the truth.

Do I believe the writers of the Bible were telling the truth? YES

There is no evidence of the existence of God or Jesus.

Do I believe God and Jesus exist? YES

There is no evidence of Jesus performing miracles.

Do I believe Jesus performed miracles? YES

There is no evidence that Jesus is the Son of God.

Do I believe Jesus is the Son of God? YES

There is no evidence Jesus rose from the dead.

Do I believe Jesus rose from the dead? YES

There is no evidence Jesus was born of a virgin birth.

Do I believe Jesus was born of a virgin birth? YES

There is no evidence every word in the Bible is true.

Do I believe every word in the Bible is true? YES

There is no evidence the earth is 5000-6000 years old.

Do I believe the earth is 5000-6000 years old? Yes

etc, etc, etc


If the above statements are true, why is the Bible not just the best selling book of all time, but also the very foundation of Christianity? How is it any different from a Ludlum novel?

Why am I so adamant about my belief in God, Jesus and the Bible in the face of no evidence? It’s called FAITH. Until someone comes along and shows evidence of the existence or non-existence of God or Jesus, I will continue to believe by FAITH. No human being believes in God, Jesus or the Bible based on factual evidence; we all believe by FAITH.

As such, because of my Faith, I am not required to produce evidence or debate the issue, that is the very essence of Faith. (belief in the unknown, unseen and unheard)

My job is to spread the good news . Christ has risen.

Those who believe in the Big Bang Theory also do so by Faith.

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Steve

No one is challenging your right to believe what you want to believe.
No one is demanding that you produce evidence for it.
You asked me a question and I answered.


I'm very grateful that we live in a time when no one can demand evidence of you.
I am very grateful that I live in a time and society when I can believe as I do, without fear of governmental and/or theocratic persecution, prosecution, imprisonment or isolating social ostracism.
It has not always been this way.

(Having old farts sending PMs back and forth about me on a song site is a matter of no concern wink )

There are a lot of people to thank for this. I give my biggest thanks to the writer/philosophers of the European Enlightenment. In effect, they wrote the Constitution of the United States, which provides for me, freedom from many fears of prior generations over thousands of years.

Sorry, dont know anything about Canada. Prefer to leave you all to go your own way as much as possible. wink

One caveat...If you base a deeply held and consequential belief on the foundation of some other belief that is not actually true, then....

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No one is challenging your right to believe what you want to believe.
No one is demanding that you produce evidence for it.
You asked me a question and I answered.

I know that Marty...my post was not meant for you...so many Christian try to defend their position in the face of no evidence...all I'm saying is I can only believe by Faith and no other way

One caveat...If you base a deeply held and consequential belief on the foundation of some other belief that is not actually true, then....

I can only believe by Faith that it is true...if I find it is not true, I walk with the full understanding no one else convinced me in the first place

what I take from the Bible are the teachings of Christ as a basis for my walk through life...having accepted Him in my 50's I spent 2/3 of my life in the secular so I made my decision with eyes wide open ...if it turns out wrong, I would be at peace with my original decision


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Originally Posted by VNORTH2
No one is challenging your right to believe what you want to believe.
No one is demanding that you produce evidence for it.
You asked me a question and I answered.

I know that Marty...my post was not meant for you...so many Christian try to defend their position in the face of no evidence...all I'm saying is I can only believe by Faith and no other way

One caveat...If you base a deeply held and consequential belief on the foundation of some other belief that is not actually true, then....

I can only believe by Faith that it is true...if I find it is not true, I walk with the full understanding no one else convinced me in the first place

what I take from the Bible are the teachings of Christ as a basis for my walk through life...having accepted Him in my 50's I spent 2/3 of my life in the secular so I made my decision with eyes wide open ...if it turns out wrong, I would be at peace with my original decision

That explanation works for me Steve.
Though agnostic, I am coming up on my 33rd anniversary to a Catholic believer. I never challenge her beliefs. She never confronts mine. I've had zealots tell me that my marriage is essentially an abomination that she should rid herself of. F' them. The gist is that I am very accustomed to people around me having their faith. I enjoy discussing and debating it, but have no desire to tear anyone's faith down. We all want to know "why?"

The existence of this thread is Tony's fault, because he thinks that JPF is the road to Corinth and that Hal Lindsay is a prophet. wink

Marty

Last thing...
The beauty of this thread is that someone like you puts themselves out there clearly and intelligently and I have a chance to learn something about something and someone different from me. That throws a little light on a world that is becoming increasingly difficult for me to comprehend. Thanks for that.

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Father, Son, Holy Spirit, God.

It is the coming messiah Jesus who, by the will of the Father, commands the very power of God... the Spirit. The same Spirit provided for us by Christ Jesus once He defeated death and hell, arose from the tomb, and ascended to the right hand of the Father with a promise to return.

Without the Spirit there is no truth.
Without the Spirit there is no discerning.
Without the Spirit there is no clarity or proof.
Without the Spirit there is no faith...

To equate belief in the Bible with the same belief some have in the "Big Bang" is an abominable insult to God and what Christ accomplished on the cross.

My faith is a precious gift of the Spirit; And the Spirit is just as real to me as the air I breathe. It is the proof of God's perfect will, as proven by God's perfect prophetic Word.

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The bible says without faith you can not please God. You cannot prove God with a slide rule. I've heard the voice of the Holy Spirit twice and each time He was chastising me for wrong thinking. I've felt His presence of approval when I've done good things. I can't prove this to anyone else but I know He is real in my heart and He is part of the Godhead. I have faith in His word and what it says will come to pass. I can only tell others of my faith and belief, it is up to them to accept or reject. If I don't tell I can be held responsible for a person that is heading toward destruction, if I do tell and they will not listen, then I've done what is expected of me. The bible says do not cast your pearls before swine, sounds a bit harsh but true, some will never listen.

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Originally Posted by JAPOV
To equate belief in the Bible with the same belief some have in the "Big Bang" is an abominable insult to God and what Christ accomplished on the cross.

Originally Posted by Everett Adams
The bible says do not cast your pearls before swine, sounds a bit harsh but true, some will never listen.

For me this thread has run it's course. Nothing remains but to rehash and shout across the divide.

A "pearl" for Tony and Everett on yall's road to Corinth....
In an increasingly secular world, where science and reasoning often contradict faith, with supporting evidence...
And instantaneous communications from any point on earth to any other point is now possible...bringing 3000-4000 religions into view of each other for contemplation....

If you are sincerely interested in converting people to your view of life and eternity...?

I suggest not leading with insulting references to the their thinking as abominations or their beings as swine.

On the other hand....if you derive great pleasure at hearing your own engines roar...enjoy it.

Steve's soft approach is much more likely to gather an audience who will actually consider what you have to say.

Happy Trails.

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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
The bible says without faith you can not please God. You cannot prove God with a slide rule. I've heard the voice of the Holy Spirit twice and each time He was chastising me for wrong thinking. I've felt His presence of approval when I've done good things. I can't prove this to anyone else but I know He is real in my heart and He is part of the Godhead. I have faith in His word and what it says will come to pass. I can only tell others of my faith and belief, it is up to them to accept or reject. If I don't tell I can be held responsible for a person that is heading toward destruction, if I do tell and they will not listen, then I've done what is expected of me. The bible says do not cast your pearls before swine, sounds a bit harsh but true, some will never listen.


I am 100% in agreement...Amen


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Everyone

What someone says or does to you is never the issue. The issue is how you choose to react to what they said or did to you...

I have a simple belief, given to me by the Holy Spirit within me...I must forgive in the moment and I do so...and I am reassured of my freedom by the fact the other person can never own a piece of me through any anger I might have...it’s gone immediately

That’s why I do not answer in the same manner JAPOV has spoken to me...the Holy Spirit speaks to me every time..In past times I did not go down that road ..,the only one to get hurt was me

Steve


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I am now convinced that you are not who you say you are Steve

Who did I say I was?

JAPOV, I'm still waiting

Steve


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I have a nephew, a non-believer, and a few months ago I gave him MP3 copies of all my songs (about 50) both secular and faith based.. because he is my nephew, he said how much he liked my songs(maybe family love..LOL)
then one day he said there was one song in particular that grabbed him...”why Should i Believe” He said the words were his exact thoughts that he had in his mind for years and it has given him pause to think about it more...I never made special note of that particular song to him...going forward I will only encourage him in his journey

the point...just spread the good news for we have no idea how God works in any of us’’’don’t be an obstacle to His love

I believe my job is to write faith based songs directed at non-believers that give them something to think about...I have written a couple of praise and worship songs but I leaves those up to others to produce them...most non-believers aren’t interested in them

If you meet non-believers where they are...i.e. their music and non threatening or condemning language, they might actually listen to what you have to say in song

Over the next year or so I’m going to post a number of my faith based songs here at JPF, some of which have had radio play


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Thanks,Marty, for your most recent post. I appreciate you very much

Steve


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Steve... (if that's really your name, and you're truly a 70y/o Canadian Christian)... as I've said before, "Perspectve is everything."

From my perspective, you are so emotionally invested in your own thoughts and opinions, and so committed to appealing to secular logic, that your mind will not even acknowledge your mistake...

You see, Steve... I HAVE PROOF. I KNOW. The Spirit in me leaves me NO CHOICE. So, I would never ask such a silly question like, "Why should I believe...?"

The only question I can't answer is "Why"? Why does this "Higher Power" appeal more to my morality than my intellect? Why me?

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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Steve... (if that's really your name, and you're truly a 70y/o Canadian Christian)... as I've said before, "Perspectve is everything."

From my perspective, you are so emotionally invested in your own thoughts and opinions, and so committed to appealing to secular logic, that your mind will not even acknowledge your mistake...

You see, Steve... I HAVE PROOF. I KNOW. The Spirit in me leaves me NO CHOICE. So, I would never ask such a silly question like, "Why should I believe...?"

The only question I can't answer is "Why"? Why does this "Higher Power" appeal more to my morality than my intellect?

I have an expression I use ..."sometimes people just open their mouth to change feet" ...thanks JAPOV
and i thank you in advance for your apology...

Steve

1,2,3


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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Steve... (if that's really your name, and you're truly a 70y/o Canadian Christian)... as I've said before, "Perspectve is everything."

From my perspective, you are so emotionally invested in your own thoughts and opinions, and so committed to appealing to secular logic, that your mind will not even acknowledge your mistake...

You see, Steve... I HAVE PROOF. I KNOW. The Spirit in me leaves me NO CHOICE. So, I would never ask such a silly question like, "Why should I believe...?"

The only question I can't answer is "Why"? Why does this "Higher Power" appeal more to my morality than my intellect?

Tony

I'm trying to get loose from this thread, but you make it too interesting (puzzling) to leave just yet. wink

"let him who is without sin cast the first stone"

"Only those who are faultless have the right to pass judgment upon others (implying that no one is faultless and that, therefore, no one has such a right to pass judgment)."


Does that not apply to you? smile

you are so emotionally invested in your own thoughts and opinions, and so committed to appealing to secular logic,

Could that translate to ...don't question or think....or you are evil?

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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Steve... (if that's really your name, and you're truly a 70y/o Canadian Christian)... as I've said before, "Perspectve is everything."

From my perspective, you are so emotionally invested in your own thoughts and opinions, and so committed to appealing to secular logic, that your mind will not even acknowledge your mistake...

You see, Steve... I HAVE PROOF. I KNOW. The Spirit in me leaves me NO CHOICE. So, I would never ask such a silly question

like, "Why should I believe...?"

The only question I can't answer is "Why"? Why does this "Higher Power" appeal more to my morality than my intellect? Why me?

Man you gotta be careful of those Canadian Christians...next thing you know they’ll try to sell you a Bible

I’ve been caught, Steve is my fake name...my real name is Steven...gosh I hope Brian doesn’t throw me off the site

I wish I was 70...I’ll be 76 in June but thanks for making me feel younger

Imagine being emotionally invested in my own thoughts and not some other persons thoughts..like yours...now that’s a scary thought

I look forward to your press conference where you display your PROOF

How dare anyone ask “why Should I Believe”... such a silly question that millions of people ask all the time....Christians and non-Christians...

I’ll give you a chance to remove your last statement because I can’t stop laughing

There you go JAPOV...if that is your real name


Steven....my new official real name as discovered by JAPOV's investigative journalism


1,2,3

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Prostitution takes two, Marty... I like to believe that many of the men in that crowd who wanted to kill that prostitute were just blaming her for their own weakness.

Only Christ is worthy to truly judge. So, since we are to esteem each other as greater than ourselves, to ignore fault would be the same as encouraging your brother to sin...

The Word is good for teaching and correction.

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Christian baiting... lol

Actually, the burden of proof of God lies on the person who says it. I could say a guy with a faucet wheel controls the rain, it cant be proven that he doesn't, but millions of other observers know the probable truth that nobody controls the rain, nature does. But ive never NOT seen the guy with the wheel. Maybe somebody out there says they have. but in order for it to be proof, everybody must agree he controls the rain. goes from subjective to objective.

Japov believes so strongly, that it IS fact to HIM. But proof means it's true to ALL who ask the question. I know my mother loved me, I cant prove that she did, but I have a strong belief that she did.

if you are proving God's existence, than you should be converting atheists all over the world.

You cant use the Bible as proof of anything, it's based on faith and hope, and faith by definition means the belief in something without proof.

Johns idea about letting science be science and religion teach us how to be good people is actually AGAINST what many religions think. They believe Jesus is the truth, the light, and the way, and that salvation has nothing to do with what good deeds you do, but is a gift from God.

I however agree with John, I believe Jesus said what he said for a reason, to love one another, and to be good people, nothing makes more logical sense than that. But you rarely see a religious person speak of those things.

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Originally Posted by VNORTH2
As such, because of my Faith, I am not required to produce evidence or debate the issue, that is the very essence of Faith. (belief in the unknown, unseen and unheard)

My job is to spread the good news . Christ has risen.

Those who believe in the Big Bang Theory also do so by Faith.

I wonder if Putin justifies himself by the same faith...

JAPOV #1183154 12/10/22 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Only Christ is worthy to truly judge. So, since we are to esteem each other as greater than ourselves, to ignore fault would be the same as encouraging your brother to sin...

Tony,
You seem to eschew logic whenever you faith hits an evidentiary wall. Yet the above quote appears to be a textbook example of convoluted and twisted logic.

And your attack on a fellow Christian is like watching a BBC documentary on the undoing of Christianity.

It's puzzling. wink

Marty

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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Originally Posted by VNORTH2
As such, because of my Faith, I am not required to produce evidence or debate the issue, that is the very essence of Faith. (belief in the unknown, unseen and unheard)

My job is to spread the good news . Christ has risen.

Those who believe in the Big Bang Theory also do so by Faith.

I wonder if Putin justifies himself by the same faith...

Yes in fact every insane leader since day one had GOD on their side.

Big bang has more hard evidence than God does. But what if we said God created the big bang? that's interesting....

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 12/10/22 04:19 PM.
JAPOV #1183156 12/10/22 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Originally Posted by VNORTH2
As such, because of my Faith, I am not required to produce evidence or debate the issue, that is the very essence of Faith. (belief in the unknown, unseen and unheard)

My job is to spread the good news . Christ has risen.

Those who believe in the Big Bang Theory also do so by Faith.

I wonder if Putin justifies himself by the same faith...

My guess is that Putin is an atheist.
But he clearly uses the ROC to bolster popular support for his territorial war. As has been done across Christendom for 2000 years. And the grand pubah of the ROC is all in because of the "moral decay" that Ukraine has put on the Russian border.

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Putin is an "Orthodox Christian"... and yes, I believe it influences his decisions.

Originally Posted by VNORTH2
Why am I so adamant about my belief in God, Jesus and the Bible in the face of no evidence? It’s called FAITH. Until someone comes along and shows evidence of the existence or non-existence of God or Jesus, I will continue to believe by FAITH. No human being believes in God, Jesus or the Bible based on factual evidence; we all believe by FAITH.

Be careful what you ask for, Steve. The Devil is very convincing...

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Those who believe in the Big Bang Theory also do so by Faith.

Big bang has more hard evidence than God does. But what if we said God created the big bang? that's interesting....[/quote]d

Hi Fd ...there is a greater understanding, today, of what the universe is doing today and it rightfully leads to interpreting those findings into the big bang theory...and the operative word is theory..

I read something recently about singularities...think black holes and the big bang... where they are wondering if singularities expand and if not what happens to the big bang

as a Christian, by Faith, I believe God created the universe...big bang theory or no big bang theory...and as Stevie Nicks says "and nothing else matters" LOL

Steven


VNORTH2
JAPOV #1183159 12/10/22 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JAPOV
Putin is an "Orthodox Christian"... and yes, I believe it influences his decisions.

Originally Posted by VNORTH2
Why am I so adamant about my belief in God, Jesus and the Bible in the face of no evidence? It’s called FAITH. Until someone comes along and shows evidence of the existence or non-existence of God or Jesus, I will continue to believe by FAITH. No human being believes in God, Jesus or the Bible based on factual evidence; we all believe by FAITH.

Be careful what you ask for, Steve. The Devil is very convincing...

I'm sorry, what was I asking for?


VNORTH2
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Steve, on one hand I must commend you for being a friend of Christ... You certainly could be worse.

But, on the other hand... your complete disregard for Biblical prophecy and gifts of the Spirit is not only insulting, it's dangerously misleading.

I truly have no idea what else to do for you but pray....

JAPOV #1183161 12/10/22 05:23 PM
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Steve, on one hand I must commend you for being a friend of Christ... You certainly could be worse.

Gosh, are you giving me a thumbs up (just a friend??)...I’ll tell all my brothers and sisters at church...you’re right who would ever want to be like Hal?

But, on the other hand... your complete disregard for Biblical prophecy and gifts of the spirit is not only insulting, it's dangerously misleading.

Took you long enough...

Steven

1,2,3


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JAPOV #1183162 12/10/22 05:25 PM
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I truly have no idea what else to do for you but pray....

That's what I have been doing for you for a couple of years now...and that's the truth


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Everett wrote

I can't prove this to anyone else but I know He is real in my heart and He is part of the Godhead. I have faith in His word and what it says will come to pass. I can only tell others of my faith and belief


This is the exact point I have been making....thank you


2 Corinthians 5:7
7 For we live by faith, not by sight.


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JAPOV wrote

The Devil is very convincing...

This is the reason I have been praying for you


VNORTH2
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Fdemetrio wrote

if you are proving God's existence, than you should be converting atheists all over the world.

Brilliant...


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Originally Posted by VNORTH2
My job is to spread the good news . Christ has risen.

"Risen" why, Steven?

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