JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Different chords???

Are piano chords and guitar chords the same? If sheet music has guitar chords, will a piano player be able to read it and play it? I don't play piano so I don't know.

I believe that they are Everett

Yes -- chords are chords, but .... how it sounds will depend on how the piano player interprets each chord and how they move from chord to chord in support of the melody. Hmmm, just like a guitar player needs to interpret the chord playing -- finger picking versus strum, root position vs. inversions, bass runs or not, etc, etc!

That's two different questions, Everett.
The chords will be the same. For instance, a C chord on both instruments will contain the notes C, E, and G.
Whether or not the piano player in question will be able to look at a list of chords and play the song is something I can't tell you. If it's sheet music, with notes on a staff and the the guitar chords written above it, a piano player who can read music should be able to do it.

It it interesting how music is music - independent on the physical source of the sound. That is because music / sound is simply physics - little ol' vibrations and the rules that govern those vibrations.

Morning Everett...

Each play the same notes in the chord, but the mechanics of each instrument influence the way a chord is performed. Also a pianist considers chord intervals more so than a guitar player strumming a chord.

John

Well,
Those notes are as clear as mud, eh? I understood everything but the Greek part. It's all Greek to me. Now, how do you get your pick out of your guitar. Well first you need a Guitar...

On a piano the same chords can be played different ways....same as a guitar....whilst the chord is basically classed as the same it can be made using different notes a different octave or different finger positions. Therefore an E for example can sound completely different when played in a different octave but will always be an E.

It's also interesting to note (pun intended) that the guitar sounds one octave lower than the written note.

John

The answer is that someone who has trained themselves to accompany a singer or soloist, whether they play piano, guitar, harp, pedal steel or any instrument that can play several distinct notes at a time, can do it.

A professional piano accompanist should be able to look at a chord chart that has some instructions as to the genre and style of music and be able to play an adequate chord accompaniment to a piece.

A classical piano soloist, for example, may not have an understanding of chord accompaniment or of genres and styles outside of the songs in their repertoire. They might have trouble improvising. A jazz pianist might not be able to play, other than in a rather rudimentary fashion, a country accompaniment and vice versa. Even many guitarists cannot read a chord chart or, if they can read it, to play in a manner that suggests a genre or style.

The theory of how chords work is the same no matter what instrument it is. The difference comes from the level of player on said instrument.

Meaning - some guitarists only play one type of chord, because they can get by with it. Some pianists are the same way. The more in depth a musician is with his/her instrument and theory, the more they are likely to be able to manipulate the chords they play in a stylistic way.

Taking it a step further, inversions of chords are the same from instrument to instrument as well.

In the end, does the part work for the arrangement of whatever instruments are involved? That is the only real question that needs to be answered.

A REAL PIANO HAS STRINGS--THE NOTES ARE HAMMERED WHEN PLAYED IE: C-E-G.

A GUITAR HAS STRINGS--IN THE SAME OCTAVE, IF YOU HAMMER THEM INSTEAD OF PLUCK OR STRUM THEM, THE CHORD WILL BE SIMILAR, WITH THE SAME INVERSION.

THE TRICK IS IN THE TECHNIQUE USED TO ACTIVATE THE STRING'S SOUND--THEY WILL NEVER SOUND EXCATLY THE SAME--JUST SIMILAR!

KEYBOARDS AND SOUND MODULES ARE AN EXTENSION, WITH MODIFIED SOUNDS, AND, AN INFINITY OF COMBINATIONS OF INSTRUMENT SOUNDS--SAMPLES HAVE MADE IT HARD TO TELL THE INSTRUMENT THAT'S BEING PLAYED--

WE'VE COME A LONG WAY FROM SCOTT JOPLIN'S PIANO AND HOMEMADE, MOUNTAIN FRETLESS GUITARS TO TODAYS SYNTHESIZED INSTRUMENTATION.

Mackie

Interesting.The reason I ask is I asked the lady in our church that leads the music if I gave her some of my songs could she learn them and sing and play them in church.I wanted to know if she played by ear or by note.She said she does not read music nor play by ear but she does know how to play chords.Which confused me a bit.I told her I can give her a receording of the song and mark the chord changes on the lyrics and even give her a soundtrack, but the chords would be guitar chords,but I don't have the notes for the melody,so we will see if this works.

Thanks for all your input.

Everett, in this case I'm sure she'll do a fine job and that your songs will bless everyone there.

Agree with Mike.

A piano player's job is very much harder, in that to transpose, the fingering is totally different. But to a real piano player, such as the lady you have suggested, it's not a problem ( or only a minor one ) Boom Tish !

cheers, niteshift

Hi Everett. I can only say that as a singer I find that all melodies have to be learned.....few people can read dots and then follow the melody even if it is written down as a score. Chords will only give a skeleton structure for the melody to follow. I suggest giving the lyrics and chord structure to the lady and perhaps a guide vocal recording. At worst she will put her own melody to suit these chords or maybe even learn and follow your guide vocal. If she is even a reasonable pianist she should be able to come up with something resembling your original. The named chords you put for guitar will be the same chords near as dammit played on piano.

Here's hoping.Hope you are right Mike.I sing sometimes in church and they haven't pulled the plug on me yet.LOL

I play both guitar and piano, and I can tell you on good authority they are the same. Each musician might voice a given chord differently, and guitarists tend to think of chords in terms of visual "shapes", i.e., the "grip", whereas pianists tend think of chords in terms of "voicing" or "voice leading", but that's about it.

Pat Hardy Lockwood

Mark the chords over the lyrics and rehearse, and that should be good enough if she knows chords.

Thanks Pat.

One thing you could also do, if you have a particular sound you want to convey is to add what octave you'd prefere (generally the left hand. Say if its a C you could write C(4)... That's the 4th octave on the piano ... also middle C. Let her play the inversion she's comfortable with. It'll sound fine.

"Let her play the inversion she's comfortable with. It'll sound fine"- Sue

Often the inversion used on the first chord of a section influences the next chord inversion that follows, e.g., a "C" chord played in root position (C,E,G) , is often followed by a "G" chord in 2nd inversion position (D,G,B) - common-tone modulation. If all root positions are used the chord flow will be somewhat detached (though the effect may be warranted). I know, who cares...

John

I totally agree John. In fact that is why I said to let her play what's comfortable to her. That C to G chord progression could also go from C-E-G to B-D-G or as you wrote D-G-B. A lot would depend on the chord following the G. Most musician's have their favorite inversions or shapes (in the case of guitarists).

It wasn't so much noting c(4) as a notation of 1-3-5 more like as a note as to where the frequency range should be centered-- It could be CEG or GCE or even EGC.

A pianist most probably won't interpret chords like guitar players. Guitar players rely on "shapes" or "grips", pianists incorporate "voice leading" because, for one thing, it's much easier on piano to do that. If they don't, they should, but I can't imagine they wouldn't, it's part of the chord learning process, to play logical inversions. I play both instruments, and that is what I do for each.

Pat Hardy Lockwood

Someone suggested bringing back some old posts. I'll go first with this one. Several people on this thread that we don't see any longer. I miss their input.

Best, John

Old threads seem to be alot more interesting than new ones.

It's not actually true that guitar chords and piano chords are the same. A note is a note, but people assume if you play guitar you can play piano too, it's so much different.

Piano chords use different voicings than a guitar. On some software you can alter the voicings to make it sound realistic.

A guitar bar chord...take c major. The notes are C-G-C(again, one octave up), E

In open position, it be c-e-g-c octave, and e octave if you feel like hitting it

Also two note bar chords, like a power chord, C-G only, sounds very stupid on the piano, but is a mainstay in rock.

Usually whoever is playing the instrument will play the chord as it's normally played on their instrument, so if you just say F major, then everybody does f major the way its done on the instrument.

But voicings are important, if a guitar and piano are recorded together, it sounds cluttered when the voicings are different. Sometimes it works out too.

About voicing… a simple way to understand open harmony is by taking a triad such as C-E-G and move the middle tone up an octave. Which would change the order to C-G-E. And can be done in all inversions. Especially a nice effect for strings & piano.

John

"A classical piano soloist, for example, may not have an understanding of chord accompaniment or of genres and styles outside of the songs in their repertoire. They might have trouble improvising. A jazz pianist might not be able to play, other than in a rather rudimentary fashion, a country accompaniment and vice versa. Even many guitarists cannot read a chord chart or, if they can read it, to play in a manner that suggests a genre or style."

OH MY LORD!!! AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH!! I've had many occassions where I've invited classically trained people to sit in with me and they are totally lost. Just like I would be if I was trying to read music. I was in a band once that were working on being a Chicago Tribute band. I looked at the music and bowed out of that thing after the first rehearsal. So it goes both ways.

But one of my most notable was one show I did and the mother of the bass player was there. I had heard she played piano and invited her up. She got up and we did a couple of very simple songs, but she simply couldn't play at all, and finally just sat down. I felt bad because I didn't want to embarras her. She TAUGHT Classical piano at a very elite university in Texas, and was a Van Clyburn competition finalist.


So they are the same, yet different. And keyboard players have too many notes. LOL!

MAB

Investigate "chord inversions" on the piano.

I am not not a musician, just a fair to middling guitar player. But I think that the question that you're asking has to do with chord inversions. On the guitar, when playing chords in a conventional manner you are limited by the reach of the four fingers on your left hand. On a piano you are not and have 10 fingers to play with.

John S could give a qualified explanation of what I just took a shot at.

FD covered the idea of voicings already...

As I re read Everettes post, i think he is asking a more basic question than what I had thought. I believe he simply wanted to know if he writes a song on guitar with the chords C-F-AM G7, and writes that down, will somebody on piano be able to play it and it be the same thing.

In short the answer to that one would be yes, I cant tell you how many times i yelled out the chords while playing to a piano player. They
will just do C F AM G7 in the basic way on piano.

Voicings complicate it, and if you had a specific way you played your song, say you were using a capo and were playing high chords, using capo way up the neck changes the whole feel and sound of it, and it may not translate perfectly just playing standard voicings on piano.

But I doubt Everett remembers the question it was asked in 2013

I didnt pay any attention to the date.

Voicing? Inversions? I tried to give an answer that was more to the point.
John S could actually answer this with some education and authority behind the answer.

Hopefully he will expand on what he has already written.

FD mentioned it before John did, so maybe FD can clear it up....

Dom

You are dredging up 9 year olds threads and using them as fertile ground to incite new arguments.
I'm gonna pass. Why dont you?

I saw the post and tried to add something helpful. You took it as an opportunity to needle someone.
You could have passed.

John "dredged this one up" not me, I responded cause i thought it was good topic, i explained about voicings, but you insist on making it somebody else who knows something...it's annoying.

I dont need to "dredge up " threads to argue, i dredged them up cause they are more interesting than the stuff you post.

Im tired of having to beat you off like a mosqutio, find somebody else to badger

Yes, I’ve known excellent classical pianists. One in particular told me that jazz makes him nervous. If you’re cultivated in only the classical repertoire, it’s understandable why you’re lost outside of your comfort zone. I think the serious music conservatories should also give classes in other genres. Especially if the pianist wants to make a living at music. Very few make it to the classical concert hall. Most end up teaching classical piano.

I will say that classical music is great in the finger dexterity arena. I was lucky, I started out in a rock band, then a hillbilly band, to the Skylarks, an old standard band. I learned so much using fake books, then I ended up in a house band, where we backed-up many acts and had our own show. A large variety of music. I didn’t study classical music until I was in my 20’s. Then I studied it with a passion for a decade. I never regretted that – or any of my playing gigs.

So, my humble advice… don’t pigeonhole your music education. When you’re young, you have no idea where you’ll end up. Be prepared…

Best, John

Yes, someone mentioned that we should start bringing back some old threads. I thought this one may be of interest.

John

Yes we should, because there are 400+ annonymous people reading threads, and never commenting or logging in, usually old ones. They should be on the site chipping in. Mystery solved as you can have 50 views and one comment, and whats so hard about contributing, they are here anyway.

To your other point there is a pro metal guitarist, considered one of the fastest shredders in all of metal, who had a love for jazz, and it took him 10 years to be able to feel jazz correctly, im sure it would be likewise the other way around.

Jazz to me is another world, you can have 4 chords in a measure, and complicated chords, and the rhythms so so difficult.

But alot of times jazz players cant play rock, they cant get the attack right, even if they have the theory and the technique.


Not uncommon to be playing in 9-8 time or 5/4 or 11/8 it gets crazy.

My buddy plays jazz piano, one heck of a player but he started out with rock so hell never lose that feel growing up with it.

Plays some classical too, classical is all about technique and proper positioning and big time sight reading, you gotta read music if you want to play classical... for sure

Playing jazz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu4imMb5648

Playing Eruption by Van HALEN lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx2DpOt6qKo

John


I didnt realize that this was your thread. I would have had a different attitude towards it if I did. For what it is worth to you, there are only 3 posters here who I read closely with the expectation of learning something useful born out of their personal experience. You are one.

As for the rest of what is here....mostly it seems people like me. Unconnected amateurs and weekend hackers entertaining ourselves. With occasional emergences of genuine talent in some form or another.

As for Dominic...I dont mind debating most anything with anybody, but his penchant for personal insults which dove to the level of posting my home video and making fun of my glasses puts me in a bind. If I return that level of insult, then I become Dominic. The additional twist is that I personally believe that Dominic should get specialized help. Returning his insults takes on a component of immorality and cruelty because of that.

As a result of all that, I've decided to withdraw from JPF. I dont expect anyone to care and I'm fine if no one does. For me, work has exploded over the last few months and this is a distraction that better judgement would rule out.

Dominic gets the "win." And maybe the rest of you get a more blissful and cohesive atmosphere..

Good-bye and good luck to everyone here.

lol. its john who brings up the thread, and its "doms" fault. Perhaps you are constantly looking to rattle "dom", and would not stop mentioning his name over and over and over again, thinking it was some sort of weapon to use, a person can only take so much, you have tried to start with me over and over again, perhaps you think its fun.

Dont cry when you get it back.

When your not trying to set me off, your fine, but you keep doing it, i dont know when youre going to lay it on, but you do...

But as Elton John said Im still Standin...

Dominic

I am not nearly as concerned with you as you think that I am, beyond the level of insults that you will sink to.
That is one of the reasons that I think that your issues are much more deep seated than a typical argumentative forum poster.

You know what you did, to deserve the insults.

How bout I leave and you stay? Will that help you out? Im not a bad person, i just dont like when people taunt and challene me for no reason.

Im working on music and I doubt anybody will even see it, its so not music any more. That was why the old threads might have been a good idea.

But im still gonna do my music, here, there or anywhere. Stay a while. Ill leave

Well...?

WELLLL?!? O_O

Well the offer is off the table now, he who hesitates is lost.

But i dont understand why people cant just avoid the people they dont like. I get pissed at people but i get over it, i dont hold a grudge.

What is it about me thats so irresistible? And women have the same problem....

I cant help it if im naturally charismatic, but jeez, id have no problem ignoring ME< if I wasnt ME

I should go.

This site is not bothered by insults that go beyond the songs and into matters of personal appearance....Coke bottle glasses. Ugly version of Mr Rogers and so forth. Even fascist.

Can I take it? Yes, easily. But its a bizarre thing to be taking from other adults and I am not going to respond in kind.

In addition to that Dom, you have promised you'd leave before...but you don't.

There's no big angst riddled moment here. I'm just calling myself the odd man out and gaining the time spent for something else.

Well wishes to everyone here.

And the record shows why those insults were hurled. You were trying to damage me, using my name keep saying and saying and saying to try to hurt me, cause you thought it would hurt me. You didnt but the intent was there.

I didnt want you to do it, but you did, so what do i do? Take it? There was just as little reason for you to do what you did, then me insulting you. But you did it, i took it, you see me saying cause of Marty Im leaving?

Do you honestly care what I think of your glasses? Stop butting in to my conversations as if I have to answer to you, and all will be well,

I dont pick on anybody, never was a bully, but if you mess with the bull you get the horns,,,, just like my old man.

Talk about childish.... your what 68, and you are insulted bout my take on your glasses?

Im sure you';re a real swinger with a heirum that rivals my own, i dont care that much about it, i dont know why you are so hurt.

What you were trying to do to me was way more hurtful and damaging. At least you thought

Its nice to seem so significant that I matter, i honestly didnt think anyone gave one chit about me either way, and thats how we roll....

Noted. Can it end here?

I have a short memory, end what here?

Awwwwww... Isn't that sweet!?!

Just admit it, you two are like peanut butter and jelly... ying and yang... Batman and Robin... Ren and Stempy... Beavis and Butthead...

If you were both stranded on a desert island, you would definitely share your medication