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#1175238 03/24/21 03:01 PM
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THIS is how ya do it? Im doing it all wrong

ALL YOU NEED IS 15k people listening to your music PER DAY lol 15 maybe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zycYKEYAz70

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To make fifty you start with a hundred...



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Sadly I know many artists ho used to sell 10-20K albums a year and net about 80K after expenses per year but the music "rental" scheme has ruined it. Everything is going to rental and the goal of world leaders is for ownership as a concept to disappear in the coming generation. I think they may achieve it, at least among the 98% of the population not connected to these monsters. It is going to be a different and horrible world for the next generation born unless something significant changes which seems unlikely.


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I'd love to see the bank statements from these people. They all sound and look like they have just graduated music school with their vaunted degrees and are really ready to tell other people how to do something they never have done. I could be wrong and I'm sure some of these people do okay, but am really skeptical on all these claims. There are MAJOR LABEL ARTISTS now not making that. Touring and merchandise is the primary source of income, and those have been wiped out by Covid. So live streaming, veinmo type virtual tip jars have come in on some of it, but the real problem is that the MAINSTREAM listeners have been getting music for free or almost nothing for decades now. It doesn't even enter into the discussion that someone has to "pay for it."

So yes, if you can get thousands of people listening to you daily, AND LISTEN ALL THE WAY THROUGH AND PAY FOR IT, you might do fine. But it is doubtful any of that will really happen. The furure is indeed dim for anyone wishing to moneytize music. There may come a time when all music is simply FREE.Which is why I personally feel you are seeing so many huge artists and writing superstars, selling their catelogues, because that is the last vestige of money for music.

MAB

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Theres NO WAY it will happen...lol 15k people? And they have to be unique listeners. you'll only get credit for one household/computer, maybe somebody listens on their home, work pcs, and their phone, that bumps you up to three listens.

Yeah, whats crazy is this is not the only guy making these videos. There are tons of them "how to make money with your music"

It seems, the best way to do it, is make a video saying "how to make money with your music" and cashing in on the people wanting to do t...which will always be many. And then getting paid for the hits on youtube.

If you could really make that dough, why give your secret away for free on youtube? Why would you crowd the market even further by letting everybody know how to do it? The answer is they arent making the money that way.

Remember those real estate commercials "Sell your first house, with no down payment in 30 days" WHy not just sell the damn house? Why tell me how to do it?

"How to write a hit song and make 100,000 a year as a songwriter" Write a book with that title.

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OK riddle me this

IF music has no value these days, why are major artists catalogues bringing in so much money?

Don't have an answer...but big money, sophisticated players (KKR just did a deal with BMI) are chasing catalogues (yeah big cheer for David Bowie who monetized his future x year royalties via a bond issue years ago.)

I can see it is hard for new artists, less established artists...but it has ALWAYS been like that where there is (say==I don't have a number) a 10 percent or smaller subset in music who make most of the money.

I recall a thread here years ago that mae a point of representative polling of music played...established artists always got more airplay credit even when they did not because airplay numbers were always sampled....meaning the chance of being included in the sample increased the more popular your songs were

So even if you had no airplay in Fayyetbumhead Texas, you were paid as if you did, and local star BigHat Malone got bupkiss even though his music was played nauseatingly incessantly on local radio

Now I do NOT disagree with the basic premise that the landscape has changed

I do think things change with them, and just like the horse and buggy were replaced, we will get a new model

We are simply in a period of upheaval

In economics and life, if there is a need, someone will work on a solution

In the meantime, B*)*th and complain all you want..or work on a solution....your choice


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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They still make money from radio royalties. Staples in classic rock, classic country, are still making a mint. I mean turn on classic rock radio, listen for two hours, and tell me if you dont hear "smoke on the water". Freebird, Cmon and take a free ride....Warward Son, More than a feelin... Funkie DIxie land.. Beatles, Stones, Led Zep, The Who are still giant earners on radio.

they are locked in and will continue to make money. I would think radio is the main source of income still, besides live performances.

But you make a point, I dont think that music has no value, it clearly does, if you get 25 million hits on your song, clearly, it has more value than somebody who got 25 hits, just based on supply and demand.

Theres still value, and actually, there are more ways to theoretically make money with music now, than ever. Back in the day, you couldnt put something on youtube and hoped it got hits or led to recognition. Or spotify, or put it up for sale so easily.

But the reality it was never easy, and not easy still to make money in music.

If you hustled playing live, and selling your cds at gigs you might make a living. But you didnt have all the ways they have today.

But, the problem is theres also way more people doing it. People who never even thought about making music see some beat making software at best buy, and say...ohh cool, now i can be a producer, and put my work on youtube...

Never was easy, still not. Music value is still there, the question is does the sale of music have value.

The solution to my end is for every major and indie artist out there boycotting, not releasing any music or doing any shows, until they do something, it would take a massive union overhaul. Maybe all vinyl.

Maybe investing MILLIONS if not BILLIONS in technnology that would make downloading music impossible. We can send somebody to the moon, we can figure out how to stop illegal music pirating.

There are solutions but there is so much money in NOT providing solutions. The money just goes to everybody but the artist.

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You actually believe this or is it just a brain cramp?

The solution to my end is for every major and indie artist out there boycotting, not releasing any music or doing any shows, until they do something, it would take a massive union overhaul. Maybe all vinyl.

Maybe investing MILLIONS if not BILLIONS in technnology that would make downloading music impossible. We can send somebody to the moon, we can figure out how to stop illegal music pirating.

There are solutions but there is so much money in NOT providing solutions. The money just goes to everybody but the artist
.



Feel free to think on it some


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In theory yes I do.

But i dont wanna think about it, how bout you tell me why i shouldnt believe that. ANd we can take it from there

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crickets....

Yes by all means make a bold statement "in the meantime, B*)*th and complain all you want..or work on a solution....your choice"

offer none yourself, but then bag on somebody elses ideas.

Still waiting on your SOLUTION

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Last edited by Fdemetrio; 03/25/21 03:24 PM.
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Just what I said, pump millions or billions into tech to stop it. Its working for movies.

I mean if somebody steals cable TV, even for a month, they can go to prison for ten years... and very few get away with it. OJ managed to escape murder convinction, but he couldnt escape going to jail for stealing cable.

Custos is the first company in the world to use blockchain technology to catch a pirate red-handed.

https://www.custostech.com/blogchain/how-movie-piracy-works-and-how-to-use-blockchain-to-prevent-it/

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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
There may come a time when all music is simply FREE.Which is why I personally feel you are seeing so many huge artists and writing superstars, selling their catelogues, because that is the last vestige of money for music.

MAB


Marc...

Makes good sense.
Getting out while the getting is good, and possibly needing cash to pay for expensive holdings and debts while the industry has wrecked residuals and made it impossible to fill a large venue.

I understand the sellers side of that. Why are there entities willing to pay for the upside on the catalogues if the future is dim?


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if thats the last vestige of money, it would make sense NOT to sell your catalogue.You cant sell your catalogue unless you are a massively big artist, in which case the money will still roll in

fill madison square gardern and you make 5 million dollars at 100 ticket, for ONE night. The bigs will always make money live. although right now its tough, but probably by summer things will change, with vaccinations.

Unless you forsee a future where nobody makes any money...at which time everybody will quit music, and it will become what it was originally intended to be. Entertainment for the public. it was never meant to be a business.

Music is already free, most people under 25 or even 30 have never bought music. And whats more, even though they can get music free on spotify, they are STILL illegally downloading it at record paces. it aint even enough to have it free on a site like spotify, you got to have IT yourself...basicly cause they can.

I think concerts were always the way artists made money, recordings were always showcase material.

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I agree with what is being said here, but a couple of corrections.

FD, the streams on Spotify, Apple Music, etc. do not have to be from unique listeners. If you listen to a song three times on your phone, that counts as three streams. There are algorithms in place to spot when somebody is just streaming his own song on repeat to rake up the fractions of cents, but, if you don't trigger that, those streams are paid.

Someone said you have to listen to the end for a stream to count. In fact, you have to listen at least 30 seconds.

FD, in picking out pirating as a major part of the problem, you may be barking up the wrong tree. It seems like everyone streams music these days, rather than downloads it. Not that pirated downloads should be excused, just that it's less of an issue now.

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So, you can play your own song at your house 100,000 per day, and get paid for it? I think everybody would quit their day job.

ahh the algorithms, so basicly what i said is true, needs to be unique listens.

And your wrong about downoading, there is still massive downloading going on, even though its there free on spotify or youtube

https://itif.org/publications/2020/02/07/22-years-after-dmca-online-piracy-still-widespread-problem
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/piracy-is-back.html

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For music, the report estimates that Sheeran alone “suffered 7.5 million illegal downloads” in 2018. It’s a choice of words that highlights how piracy isn’t the existential threat it once was for the music industry – because it’s hard to think that Ed Sheeran was sitting around suffering in 2018, thanks to his income from legal music services (not to mention concerts).

https://musically.com/2020/12/09/ed-sheeran-was-most-pirated-artist-in-the-eu-in-2018/

but for every ed sheeran there is Joe Blow not getting a dime...

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People who illegally download Ed Sheeran's music get exactly what they deserve LOL.

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I see it, its pretty much the way it has always been, big shots make bank, little shots make shizzle

Alot of big time artists LIKE downloading, they think it increases their reach, might get one more seat filled, for every 1000 downloaded. And As Keith RIchards said in the time of bootlegging, "If your not being bootlegged, you're not happening"

These guys are so filthy rich, missing 50 cents on a 1.00 download will not hurt them one bit

But reflects on the songwriter, the people who work on the recordings. those jobs are gone

Bring back vinyl, vinyl is a physical piece, if you can hold it in your hand its real. and vinyl sounds better.

maybe one day....

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FD the answer is in new ways harnessing new techs and getting used to new ways of doing things

You've been bitching about BIAB and you not right or wrong in your arguments but the point is moot. BIAB has its place and market

More important to this conversation is the underlying point that it is dirt cheap to produce passable music in terms of melody, rhythm, some kind of groove, and your lyric using tech these days

It is also lot cheaper than it was for creative people to create and duplicate music....and not via vinyl.

Distribution is also cheap and youtube is a great medium so your link is not wrong either

I told you I have no answer except need finds solutions

By that I mean the industry----all players who take that piece of the pie away from the creator....will find ways to adapt to changing technologies and conditions

And those who feel the need to make music in all its levels of professionalism will do so with whatever skill levels and tech they can master

Until then your guess is as good as mine





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SO im right about everything, but you decided to look your nose down on me anyway..0..

Ive been bitching about BIAB..... no, ive been telling the truth about it. Bitching is the people saying its great

Of course BIAB has a place in the market...its a great tool for songwriters, mainly those who cant record any other way, and its cheap, and its a great sketch demo maker. what its NOT, is the record. Which if you try to get a song cut, mainly by a bigon, they want the track to be ready to be sung over by the artist.

They dont want your crap biab demo.

You might be able to get things done that dont require that high of a recording bar, but biab is not a professional tool. its really an amateurs tool


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And to my other point, as implausible as it is, and so not going to happen, if all artist big and small said "ok, were not making any more music, or performing, until you fix this broken system" where artists are compensated reasonably, piracy is contained, creating a middle class and lower class for musicians, they would be forced to do something. Too much money would be lost by venues, travel, media, all kinds of businesses. and wed have a solution soon enough.

why it wont happen, is most people only care about themselves. Music is a union, unions can stand up for the whole, and often do. But the little guy in music would not be able to survive with a strike, and you'd probably have alot of indies crossing the pick it line, and trying to make a name for themselves. and the jobs created because of those artists would be lost creating more problems.

BUT, in theory, it would force a change. Possibly changing it for the future generation.

The solution to making money in this day and age? Same as it always was, have a product somebody wants, and dont be a bag of ice cubes, trying to say "buy me"

Be great, work your ass off, be entertaining, and be INCREDIBLY,INCREDIBLY lucky. thats always been the formula.

I plan on doing gigs once the pandemic is gone. Last time I gigged, smoking was allowed in bars, no more. But It will make me happy to gig for a while. ANd i bet, they still wanna pay me a 100 bucks!

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So you are right about everything but I decided to look down my nose at you?


You actually believe this or is it just a brain cramp?

The solution to my end is for every major and indie artist out there boycotting, not releasing any music or doing any shows, until they do something, it would take a massive union overhaul. Maybe all vinyl.

Maybe investing MILLIONS if not BILLIONS in technnology that would make downloading music impossible. We can send somebody to the moon, we can figure out how to stop illegal music pirating.

There are solutions but there is so much money in NOT providing solutions. The money just goes to everybody but the artist.

Feel free to think on it some



I genuinely challenged you on this and my main point in response was that need drives innovation

All your diatribe against the sytem is meaningless because if it is as broke as you say it is, shoring it up with laws and tech and musicians going on strike until that happens makes no sense

The answer is still in finding new ways and models.

Musicians crowd fund their CDs now. Pays for studio time and tech time.

I also believe pirating is less of a problem as time passes. Legitimate ways of getting good material is available cheaply via subscriptions, and the questionable download sites are ridden with malware. More and more people are going that route


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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Neither is you thinking you can beat the system, and start making money with your music...going to work.

"Yeah just think of a new way" and NOBODY out of the hundreds of millions of people online has EVER thought of something.

Even these bsers on youtube, are saying they are promoting one thing, but they are making money on the video...basicly lying their way to the bank.

You cant have 500,000 innovations, only a few are going to work. Where does that leave the tens of thousands of music creators?

Leaves them with 10 views. So i re challenge you, the answer is NOT trying to reinvent the music business.

You have to play the game, it might cost you more money to create a new way to make money, than the money you make will ever repay.


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It boils down to a moral problem. People and business who claim to be honest think nothing of stealing a little bit here and there, be it a song they never paid for or not giving your employer an honest days work for an honest days pay. If you take and use something owned by someone else without paying for it or without the permission of that person to do so, it is stealing. It might be petty theft but still stealing. Multiply it by hundreds of thousands and it becomes a major problem.

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Study history a little Everett.

In a head-to-head contest, enough money beats morality and Jesus and God or any other moral construct pretty much every time. Immediate fear of consequences is usually the actual force that causes people to be "moral." Collectively speaking, people have never been all that moral, When the temptation is there to take something for nothing, the determining factor is how bad that they want it and how much they fear getting caught. Since the beginning of time.

Taking free music if available is a foregone conclusion.

Software used to be stolen regularly but now subscription licensing has brought that way down. However, I am sure that some people still beat Autodesk and get it free. Unlike software, once music can be heard, it can easily be stolen.
I don't have any idea how they might ever overcome that.

I think that John V is right. The music model has seemingly changed. Supply is galactic. Demand that actually pays is minimal.
Butts in seats, ball caps and t-shirts looks like the only remaining avenues. The big stars have the benefit of the label machines and money. One piece of the new model is social media stars. The few that I have watched appear to be very attractive or very attractive and the offspring of some celebrity.

Recently some dude on a skate board pulled behind a car was drinking a pop and lip syncing to Fleetwood Mac. He became a momentary viral video star for no particularly meritorious reason other than he entertained viewers.. He tried to monetize his moment but Stevie NIcks blocked him. Apparently she is pissed too.

the takeaway...become a youtube star. Don't usurp the rights to Stevie Nicks music. She can back it up. wink

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Everette tha main problem is people dont even know they are stealing anything. At least at this point, they did when it first started, but by todays reasoning, Music is not something you buy.

Morality is a bewitching gumbo...

I once worked at a company and this Jehovah Witness tells me, "im not participating in the grab bag, because we dont celebrate Christmas"

Shortly after we got a letter telling us all employees would be getting a $100 Christmas bonus, along with their regular pay.

I saw that gal and said, so what are you going to do about the Christmas bonus? Ill walk down to human resources with you, to make sure they dont include your Christmas bonus. She says "what? they are giving us that," yeah, they are giving us that cause its CHRISTMAS, and you dont celebrate it.

She could rationalize it anyway she wanted, but she willingly accepted money for Christmas, but would not take a grab bag gift, or give one for Christmas.

Money trumps everything.

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John asks:
"IF music has no value these days, why are major artists catalogues bringing in so much money?"

Sunset POET asks: "Why are there entities willing to pay for the upside on the catalogues if the future is dim?"

The answer is called COMMERICIALIZATION! There is something known as "AIR OF FAMILIARITY" it is used to add an additional "incentive to sell products." It works like this:

Let's just take the example of the Bob Seeger song "LIKE A ROCK" that was the theme song for CHEVY TRUCKS for about 5 years. The target market of those trucks are male, somewhere in their mid 40's to 60's. Those are the main people that can afford $45,000-$60,000 trucks. What were those people doing 35-40 years ago?
GOING TO BOB SEEGER CONCERTS, and hearing him daily on the radio. When they see those truck ads, pulling stuff up mountains, hauling yaghts across the Tundra, that song helps them to make sure they look at one of those trucks in the showroom. "Hey, I just happen to have a huge boat I want to haul too!"

Women in their 40's-60's are marketed "HEART'S" "WHAT ABOUT LOVE" on their SWIFTER MOP commericals. Or songs from the "GREASE" soundtrack.

"SANDALS" resorts" use "TIME OF THEIR LIVES" (from the Dirty Dancing soundtrack.) A movie from the 80's about a resort in the 50's being marketed to people in the second half of the 2000's. The time frame alone is mind boggeling.

You see it in almost every single commerical out there. The audience is targeted from their memories. Can't imagine what Steelers Wheel are making from "STUCK IN THE MIDDLE WITH YOU" these days. That one is everywhere. Probably making a TON MORE than when it was out in 73'.

It really benefits one of my co-writers. JIM PETERIK wrote "EYE OF THE TIGER." That thing is EVERYWHERE. Got a montage scene? You go to Jim.

"AMERICAN IDOL", "THE VOICE", "WHOEVER THIS PARTICULAR SECOND HAS TALENT," liscence hundreds of these songs for their singers.

The current movers and shakers of the television industry are NETFLIX, HULU, AMAZON PRIME, HBO etc. for original programming. Many, many, many, of those shows are period pieces. Shows like QUEENS GAMBIT, THE CROWN, MARVELOUS Mrs MAIZY, are huge period pieces that run a large gamut of time.
The SOPRANOS ended with JOURNEY'S "DON'T STOP BELIEVING."

How many BROADWAY shows are now built around 80's rock music (ROCK OF AGES), ABBA (MAMA MIA), even back into the 50's and 60's (JERSY BOYS)?

Filmakers like Martin Scorsese, The Cohen Brothers, and Quentin Tarentino, write ENTIRE MOVIE SCENES TO THOSE SONGS FROM THE PAST. Quentin's "ONCE UPON A TIME IN LA," was all about his experiences growing up in LA during the summer of the Manson Murders in 1969. The entire movie is built around those songs.
And they are passing that tradition to the future generations. Ever see a MARVEL or DC SUPERHERO MOVIE? Hear any classic songs in those?

One of the biggest money makers in music these days are TRIBUTE BANDS. Those shows are liscenced. Some friends of mine from Birmingham, Alabama, called "BLACK JACKET SYMPHONY" recreate certain albums, from beginning to end. "Fleetwood Mac, The Eagles, The Beatles, are all shows they do selling out 2500,5000 seat concert halls at $25-$50 a ticket. Large sound and light shows that are nearly as polished as the bands they represent. Don't want to pay $500-$1000 per ticket for THE EAGLES? Here is someone JUST AS GOOD for $50.

For the artists and writers themselves, they are looking for the future for themselves and their heirs. They are aging out of the process. Neil Diamond, Elton John ,Billy Joel, are all on their FINAL tours, or (in Elton's case, his final five year tour) So leaving a legacy of $300 million behind is going to take care of their memories. Dealing with the present and future music industry is something they don't want to have anything to do with. Getting rid of it all gives a certain "plausible deniablity."John Lennon would have been rolling over in his grave to hear "REVOLUTION" being used to sell NIKE SNEAKERS. But it probably introduced a legion of people who had no idea of the BEATLES to their music.

So is there going to be money in the future for music? Sure. There are always are people who make out fine. If you can build yourself a "WAY BACK MACHINE" go back 40 years, have a HUGE HIT, then come forward and write a play that will be turned into a movie of your huge hit, then liscence that to some product that hasn't been invented yet, that people who loved your song in it's hey days will buy, you are going to be sitting pretty. Anything from the 2000's forward? Probably not much.

There are always going to be hit artists and songs. But the life span of those are what is decreasing. I somehow don't think we'll be seeing "WAP the celebration of the music of CARDI B" done in 2050.

Most music is going to be free and forgettable. Just another sign of the times.
MAB

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Cardi B might not be around, but the likes of Taylr Swift and Justin Bieber will be. A friend of my niece paid 500 dollars for a Beyonce concert, and some paid more. We just dont think the music is good, the people who grew up with it do. I remember busting my nieces friend, what are you gonna do take out a loan to go see Beyonce?

and even Cardi B gets 150 for a concert. I saw James Taylor at the Garden States art center for 25 bucks

Lennon would have been rolling around at Nike, but we woulda thought Bob Seger would have not allowed like a rock, he did, got paid paid handsomely, and took flack for it, I remember Mellencamp ripping him. Springsteen turned down 10 million, in mid 80's from crystler to use Born In The USA, i gurantee you today, hed take it and more. And I gurantee you Lennon would too.

Its like the superbowl, at one time it was considered minor league, and tacky to play the superbowl, Then Suddenly, Sir Paul, Stones, Tom Petty, U2, The Who, Springsteen all did it. Artists you would have never thought would.

Artists care about their legacy, but they care about money more. And their careers, provide employment for many people, that is a big reason they continue. "hell i dont need any money, but Joe the roadie, needs the money".

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whats worse, Mellencamp's This IS OUR Country, succeeded Bob Segers commercial...this after Mellencamp blasting Seger

Everybodys full of chit...thats the morale of the story.

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Marc

Thanks for taking the time to explain that. Makes perfect sense.
The numbers are still baffling to me. It sounds like the rights to these music catalogues are bringing big sums.
I did not know that there was that much ongoing money to be made licensing them to commercials etc...that would pay off the original investment and go on to yield a good return. Apparently there is.

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Could it be that "The industry" has always made more money than the artist, and has always assumed credit for the artist's success? What is "The industries'" incentive to invest in new music when they make more money "commercializing" the glory days and buying catalogs?

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They asbolutely have always made more than the artist. That was the initial lure of going label free, "ahh now i can keep all my earnings" yes but the tradeoff is you dont have the marketing power and connections the labels do, and you will most likely end up making less

Big time artists still use labels, cause its not worth their time nickel and diming, they still make millions over millions

But I know of several bands who signed, reached decent levels of success but quit cause of the label.


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thanks for explaining that.... bites tongue.... LMAOOOO


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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
thanks for explaining that.... bites tongue.... LMAOOOO




You dont have the self control to stick with anything. Do you?

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John, I am probably only scratching the surface. Most of my info comes from people who are actually doing it. I mention Jim because he just has a TON of songs that are liscenced in all kinds of things. He's like a walking commerical, "HOLD ON LOOSELY" "SO CAUGHT UP IN YOU" "ROCKING INTO THE NIGHT" from his 38 Special cuts, "EYE OF THE TIGER" " THE SEARCH IS OVER" from his SURVIVOR cataloge, and of course, his first hit song "VEHICLE" seem to pop up all the time in Commericals, movies and television. He just sort of grins when you mention that and makes jokes like "added another wing to my house". If you saw his house, youd realize there is still some money to be made at this.

But it really depends on your target audience. Songs from the 60's, 70's, 80's, even into the 90's, are the target generation that still own things, albums, even CD's, and even though they are digitally up to date, they still like to OWN something. The current and future generations aren't like that. They would rather rent, apartments, instead of owning houses, doing Uber or mass transportation instead of owning cars. When it comes to music, most of them have never paid a dime for music outside of streaming services (which mostly their parents pay for) or getting things for free.

And while yes, there are the Beyonce, Justin Bieber's, and Taylor Swift, again those are more in the CELEBRITY or PERSONALITY than any of the music. I actually heard some kids once refer to Taylor Swift as "Old Classic country" stuff. LOL!There will always be stars, songs, etc that break through. But they will be fewer and farther between, and have much shorter shelf lifes. Even if you look at those three, they were from the EARLY part of the 2000's. Starting around 2010,where you were suddenly getting everything delivered on your computers and now the phone, that is where the ownership IS ending.

And I feel the artists of today and tomorrow are more akin to Athletes, than the long standing rock pop and country stars of yesterday. Takes about 8-10 years to get significant attention have a 1-2 year run at success, then are the answer to a triva question. "WHO?" I just don't think there will be people with staying power. The attention spans of the general public get expotentially shorter and shorter. So I go back and forth over what the future of music business is.

I will always say:
"VISIBILITY IS VIABILITY."
If you have something that is seen and heard EVERYWHERE, on radio, television, commericals, social media, viral sensations, etc. you will do well. If you don't, you won't.
MAB

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Certain words come to mind when considering the journey to success… talent, determination, creativity, unique (well at least a little different from the norm), relentlessness, contacts, and most of all – LUCK! It’s best not to have a fixation on MONEY. If money is your main goal, find a different vocation. There are easier ways to make money.

John smile

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The industry is considered THE BANK that has the investment capital, as well as political and industry contacts to push something past the smaller labels.And they lose the same amount of money on 9 things for every one that works out. Far more failures, development hell casulties, and "good ideas at the time" that simply didn't pan out than huge sure fire hits. They release a LOT of product and pay a LOT of money to do it. Most things just don't reasonate with the public or create a niche. No one knows what will be a hit.

Someone like Carrie Underwood stil pays a large part of her income to American Idol, which was her launching pad. That adds up to miilions of dollars. The question is always asked, why give up that much money? The other side of the coin is that they were the platform that launched her and she probably would not have reached that audience to begin with if it weren't for them.

Hard to figure any of this out. Don't try.

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There ya Go... Reasonability.... Where ya been JLS?


Marc, Beyonce is a remarkable talent... she sings like an angel, she looks like an angel, she writes, she dances and has legs that wont quit.

Anytime you fill an area and charge 500 a seat, you are doing something right.... I dont care what it is, you can play two chords with three broken strings, but people are showing up for a reason.

I wish I had an ounce of her talent, but shes not my style, I could care a less about her music

I prefer my boy James Maddock...unable to break through but hes still somebody whos career and talent i admire.
He just puts out great record after great record, every bit as good as Ed Sheeran and anybody popular today.

When I heard this one, i said this is exactly how I feel, I wanted to cover the song, still might
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAN9dfBKG5s

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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
The industry is considered THE BANK that has the investment capital, as well as political and industry contacts to push something past the smaller labels.And they lose the same amount of money on 9 things for every one that works out. Far more failures, development hell casulties, and "good ideas at the time" that simply didn't pan out than huge sure fire hits. They release a LOT of product and pay a LOT of money to do it. Most things just don't reasonate with the public or create a niche. No one knows what will be a hit.

Someone like Carrie Underwood stil pays a large part of her income to American Idol, which was her launching pad. That adds up to miilions of dollars. The question is always asked, why give up that much money? The other side of the coin is that they were the platform that launched her and she probably would not have reached that audience to begin with if it weren't for them.

Hard to figure any of this out. Don't try.


BINGO! smile

So, what's hard to "figure" when all you have to do is follow "THE BANK"?

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He means its hard to figure out which path to choose, no matter what you do there is risk and downside, as well as reward and upside.

Id say Carrie Underwood has hit the upside of that deal by now. Funny thing Simon Cowell, was usually wrong about most things, when she auditioned, the first thing he said to her, "you are going to win American Idol" and will go on to make more money than anybody on Idol has.

Dayum dude nailed it... even if he's a bonehead promoting music as a competition.


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Because the "BANK" loses on more acts than succeed. They are hoping for the major artist finds, to fund all the losses. Which is why you find all the conglomerates having mergers, because even the "BANK" needs more money. It's why they will have mass communication divisions, motion picture division, television division, product development divisions, and why they are conglomerates. Because the LOSSES that it takes for the SUCCESSES take a ton of money. And the "bank" is in many directions at once. So you don't really "FOLLOW THE BANK." You partner up with "THE BANK."

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How often do you get to see on TV a star being born? Its rare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOlrEFQ24SM

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There ya Go... Reasonability.... Where ya been JLS? - Fde

Keeping a low profile these days Fde. It creates a safer environment.

Best, John smile

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If anybody gives you a hard time just let me know, ill handle it....

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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
If anybody gives you a hard time just let me know, ill handle it....



Thanks Fde! If anyone gives me trouble I'll yell "sic 'em Fido", or Fde

John smile

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Originally Posted by Marc Barnette
Because the "BANK" loses on more acts than succeed. They are hoping for the major artist finds, to fund all the losses. Which is why you find all the conglomerates having mergers, because even the "BANK" needs more money. It's why they will have mass communication divisions, motion picture division, television division, product development divisions, and why they are conglomerates. Because the LOSSES that it takes for the SUCCESSES take a ton of money. And the "bank" is in many directions at once. So you don't really "FOLLOW THE BANK." You partner up with "THE BANK."


Well then, doesn't that make the "music industry" a microcosm of the entire world economic system today? If the music industry was truly taking so many chances with its money, wouldn't it have bankrupted long ago?

Look, I realize that you and I have been batting this one back and forth more than 15yrs now. It's the reason I nick-named you "Company Man" lol. It's hardly worth the argument anymore. You know that I see "THE BANK" as being the problem with EVERYTHING today, not just music. So, when you say something like "partner up with the bank", what I hear is "choose your side"; Do you want to "have or have not"? Sorry, but I just don't see the music industry, in conjunction with the rest of the media industry, as being so benevolent. It's ALL headed in the same direction...

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Tony

The "bank" , "financier" , "backer" , "money" "money-man" , "money people" has always been there.
For someone in a specific business to say, that they are partnering with "the bank" is only saying that they have secured a source of financing for their business.

It is not a political statement. It does not suggest conspiracy or taking sides in an ideological war.

Those are dots that you are connecting. Put down the bong and step away from it. wink

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Fine...lol. I'll go re-tune my tinfoil hat...

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Tony, I find you always funny. I'm as far away from "Company Man" as you can get. I don't ever say I agree with it, I'm just telling you the way it is. Companies in all forms of businesses, banks, credit unions, television networks, Internet sites, resturants, any business, always have more losses than gains. This is just another one. The music business is a BUSINESS. Nobody has to be involved. I actually have outlined tons of things and people who don't do that and go their own way. One is on the other forum here, "That's my Niche and I'm sticking to it." Which is about my friend Scott Southworth who does just that.

My only point that you miss this time is that in the music business, the major labels are the bank because they have the resources. Not benevolent at all. has nothing to do with it .And if you drove the streets of Music Row and saw the "FOR SALE, FOR LEASE, FOR RENT" signs that are publishing companies, record labels, production companies, etc. that HAVE gone out of business because of poor business decisions, bad outcomes, changes in the industry, or just bad economics, you'd see that most of the DO go out of business. The majors stay in simply because they are levaraged in other areas like different divisions.

Every once in a while I do wish you would get the point but I don't think you ever will, so you have the right to miss every point there is. Hope you didn;t have any storm damage from last night. Got rough down there./
MAB

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