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Email: info@songwritersuk.com
Website: http://www.songwritersuk.com

A UK-based songwriter has criticised some of Nashville's producers and A&R's, because they are all expecting to hear Nashville-produced 'radio-ready demos, of songs being pitched.

A former producer himself, Ross Hemsworth says that when he is given demos, he likes to hear them in the most basic form so that he can then add that production magic to make a good song 'great'. Speaking in the UK today he said "what is left for them to produce id it's already done for them"

Ross has been in the music industry for over 40 years, during which time he has co-written with the likes of Suzi Quatro, produced at Gary Numan's former Rock City recording studios, managed a band to three top ten's with Sony Records and been a radio plugger in London.

A voting member of the US Songwriters Hall of Fame and Sesac affiliate, Ross is also concerned at the 'songwriting teams' that are seemingly closing the door on outside writers in Nashville and how many artists, A & R's and producers, are using the same teams. Ross added "I love Nashville, and am a big fan of the music from bands like Little Big Town, Lady Antabellum and The Band Perry, but many artists are starting to sound too much the same because of not being open to new different songwriting styles".

Ross, who has his own studio in the UK, has received excellent reviews for many of his songs and has cuts in the UK, but is frustrated at not getting heard in Nashville. "I use a well-known songplugger, but the feedback is usually the same, that they are looking for Nashville-made radio ready demos, and as they will be recording them again from scratch, I just don't get it!"

Ross can be contacted via www.songwritersuk.com

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Well, that just about says what all the Nashville folks have been saying for quite awhile.

Any comments from Nashville ?

cheers, niteshift

Wow. I'm surprised he didn't also say that "Nashville producers and labels expect there to be songs with both MUSIC AND LYRICS on them. Thank you Captain Obvious. Of COURSE they are going to be expecting things with a certain "radio ready' format. Is he just finding out this? Only 15 years behind the times huh?

I can assure you that if we were trying to pitch to HIS artists, there is a certain level he is looking for songs and recording also. And if you could get pitches (talk about a protectionist country, try UK, Australia and Canada, they have "Local Content issues in all of them.) they would go through the exact same things. They are just wanting to be able to produce them the way THEY want to hear them and expect US to do what THEY want to do.

This non-sensical argument was going on in the 70's and has never let up. Now, everyone is PRODUCING PROJECTS. They are no longer DOING DEMOS. And outside pitches have been all but dead for 15 years. Catch up folks.

When the money started dissapearing from songs themselves starting in the late 90's, everyone starting shifting the way they approached the business. Now everyone is developing artists themselves. Where do they think the WRITERS TEAMS come from?

This is just another example of someone who should spend some time in the arena he wants to work in and build some relationships OUTSIDE A SONG PLUGGER ONLY (the next biggest DEAD trait out there) instead of just criticizing the way things are. Maybe if he would find a few artists, show them some ways to come to England, make some money and build fan base, instead of just looking for ways HE can get INSIDE, he might have a little better record.

Everyone OUT THERE seem to be wanting to COME HERE. That is fine. We pretty much welcome anyone and try to build bridges when we can. But this is OUR TOWN, OUR RELATIONSHIPS, OUR LIVELYHOOD.We build them a little at a time and over a long period of time. No one is just going to go around and tell us what we should be doing and how we should approach something. If they think it should sound "different" then produce something and create that is undeniable, and if the rest of the world doesn't embrace it, find the niche where they WILL embrace it, and have people come to HIM. If you know how to do it, put your product out there on the playing field and compete. Don't worry about what WE are doing in Nashville or anywhere. Build it yourself and they will come.

But no one seems to want to do that. They just want to complain about what they don't seem to adjust to. That's their choice. But if you want to get INTO a society, it's kind of a dumb thing to go to worldwide avenues of communication and complain about the way business is done where you want to be. Complainers are pretty common. Innovators are not.

MAB

Marc, do you owe the Nashville chamber of commerce your firstborn or something? You shamelessly kiss its ass at every opportunity. I personally have nothing against Nashville...I've been treated better there than I ever thought I would. However, that guy has a point....expecting thousand dollar demos puts songwriters like myself at a very big disadvantage. If you truly have an ear for melody and lyric you shouldn't need a fully produced radio ready demo. I have heard top studio cats say the same thing(even though demo sessions make up much of their livelihood) and I'm hardly a regular denizen of the Row. And the fact that a lot of Nashville country sounds the same is an old criticism which must contain some truth. I'm reading a book from the early 80s and within 20 pages there's a description of country as being corny, cliched crap. Whenever I tell people I write country I get more pity from them than when I used to tell them I worked at Burger King. And this is Arizona! So the criticism of Music Row writing cliques has some merit. It doesn't affect me, it's not my nature to be a part of any clique...furthermore, I don't think innovation is born of such groups....GroupThink is.

And to address what you said about the Blurred Lines lawsuit...we're not all writing the same stuff. Speak for yourself in that arena.

So for Hank's sake, have some friggin' dignity and don't defend Nashville on every issue. You just come off like some low level Hollywood hack defending Transformers 10.

Marc:

I also wonder why Nashville Producers and Executives with related organizations appear to want "full blown" demos. Hell, if they pick the song up, their artist is going to do the song the way their producers works it up. Are you confirming my suspicion that folks in Nashville lack imagination or don't have the ears to recognize the potential of a one instrument work-tape, CD or Memory Stick?

If I were booked up with artists doing my songs (and I were swimming in royalty money)... I would not mind paying for a top notch demo... but I still contend it is usually good money spent on bad odds. You've already heard about a songwriting acquaintance of mine who has spent about $20,000 for 27 country song demos... (and they sound pretty good) yet he still has nothing to show for this investment.

I accept your exposure to the way things are done up there on Music Row... but isn't there some wiggle room? No disrespect intended, my friend. Tell it like it is!

Regards,

Dave Rice

"Ross has been in the music industry for over 40 years, during which time he has co-written with the likes of Suzi Quatro..."

That says it all. He is a bit behind in time and never really moved on. It's not only Nashville that is looking for fully produced "demos". It's also London, Berlin, Tokyo, you name it!

if you want to be a professional country songwriter you move to the hub - which is Nashville and you play by their rules. This is the only way to make it as a successful songwriter unless you're in the 1% like Saskin (Seskin)? I think, who travels there from way out of town.

You're a very good writer Robert. You really do have a special way with words but lets be honest, expensive demos don't put you at a disadvantage. Your style of writing puts you at a disadvantage. You don't write music row type songs. This is not an attack on your style of writing. It's just not marketable or catchy enough for the mainstream crowd which is who Music Row works for. You can infer it all as cliche crap and that might be a little true (not all of the songs are crap) but that's the name of the game. If you don't wanna play by their rules you can't blame them for not succeeeding. Mark knows what he's talking about. He lives and breathes Nashville. Show some respect.

Have you ever been to a casino? Have you ever met anyone that won money off of a slot machine? How did they do that? Did they just walk in and take a jackpot with them? No. they had to have a coin, put it in a slot, after parking in the Casino. They had to sit at the table or machine.

The produced songs (might as well drop the demo, because what you are hearing on the radio are pretty much what is being pitched) are the coin that it takes to get into the game in the first place. If you don't want to play, don't. But don't complain about how the casino is set up.

Couchgrouch, I am not defending Nashville as much as trying to explain what people are talking about. But it is fairly offensive to hear people denigrate your town all the time and then wonder why they are "shut out" of the process.

But what EVERY SINGLE WRITER OUT THERE MISSES IS THE SAME THING, AND IT IS LIKE WATCHING PEOPLE WALK INTO WALLS.You are all looking at things as SONGS, and you are missing the RELATIONSHIPS.

You complain about everything "sounding the same' and a lot of it does. A lot of ALL music is the same stuff. Same grooves, same lyrics, same titles. A lot of movies are the same. Yes, Transformers ten. Entertainment has mostly people that copy other people. Is it right? Nope. Is it good? Nope. Are you going to change it? Nope.

You can do whatever you want to do. No one forces you to do anything. Write what you want. Record what you want the way you want. You can do that.

But if you want to play on a certain ballfield with the people that play on that, you are going to have to play by the rules set by the people who run that ballgame.

But you miss the relationships becauase you are writing songs while the people who are succeeding are meeting the artists,living with the artists, producing songs on them years before the artists are known in the public arena,and find out what the artist want to sing and are a part of. Once someone is signed, they are gone. Period. You are not going to get a cut on them. Find the next artist.

This is all like watching slow motion train wrecks. Everyone talks about no money in music because of streaming and no one is selling records. DUH. No joke. Where you been 15 and 20 years? Branding has been where it has been for decades. You've been sitting here watching the Internet put billions of songs and millions of writers into the pipeline and wonder why the value of songs has disspeared.

Myself, Brian, Mike Dunbar,and person after person have tried to tell you find people in your area, try to help local and regional artists achieve their goals using you and your songs, and people complain they don't want to do that. They want to go to the pitch services, the libraries, the contests, whatever fly by night, wave of the second service to pitch and promote songs, and find nothing. None of them work. The only thing works is building relationships and that doesn't always work.

Dave, do this.
Go to a site where UNSIGNED writers are all day long. Where thousands upon thousands of songs are. People you don't know. Now sit there for an hour and listen to as many verses and choruses as you can. Do it for another hour. Then another hour. Now tell me how much unproduced, mediocre song presntations stand out to you. Burn your ears out, then do that every day. All day. Then tell me how many of those songs you would get to an artist. OVER YOUR OWN.

You may not like what is on the radio, you may not like what artists are doing. Hey, let me be honest with you couch grouch, I DON'T EITHER. I don't sit around worrying about what other people are doing. I spent sixteen hours with an artist in the studio over the past two days helping her GET those good sounding recordings. Because it is going on her upcoming CD. And she is going to be playing all over the country and maybe one day in front of labels.
But that is not to get a record deal. It is to help her get who she is in front of an audience. That is all I care about. I don't care what the industry is going to say, although I am pretty sure what they are going to say because I am already getting emails asking about her from people inside the industry.

How many "outside songs' is she going to listen to? NOT ONE. She is going to write her own. Same with the 16 year old Artist I worked with on Friday and Saturday, the same with the artist coming up this week who is doing his own session.
If you read these pages, and I think some of you do, you just heard Everett complaining because some singer won't record his songs. Well, welcome to the new world folks. ALL ARTISTS ARE WRITING THEIR OWN SONGS. And just because YOU don't think THEY are recording what YOU think is up to snuff, really don't even factor in to the dicussion. They could care LESS what you think. And if they are not going to make money, actually even cost them money to record outside songs, that just isn't going to happen. They are going to write and record what THEY like. Not just what words or music YOU want to put into their mouths. And if it all sounds alike and they sound like a lot of other people, that is THEIR CHOICE. Not yours.

OUTSIDE SONGS without an artist or insider involved, are gone. Done. Get over it. It doesn't matter the demo, it doesn't matter how good YOU THINK it is. It is an inside game and has been for decades. If you don't like it, fine, don't do it. But don't sit around and complain all the time about not being able to get anything heard or how the game is played. Either play the game as it's played or invent your own.

The one constant in the music business that has been going on from the beginning of time, is the WHINING ABOUT THE UNFAIRNESS OF THE MUSIC BUSINESS.

Sorry and you can shoot at the messenger all you want to. You don't hit anything. But at the end of the day, you are going to find that there is nothing that a bunch of complaining is ever going to acheive.

MAB

Hey Marc,

So tell us what you really think !

All good points.

Coming from Oz, and a diffuse industry, I'd never heard of pitching songs to an artist before joining JPF.

It was write, write some more, write with band mates, write with vocalists/artists, write ( of late ) with internet collaborators , and record and hopefully release music if it turns out Ok.

The only thing I ever pitched for were commercials, and that's worth it, as it brings in a few dollars once in awhile.

In regard to demo's , I think they went out a long while ago. The recording costs have become exponentially low, to a point where if it's not a great sounding recording, then why poison someones ears with tape hiss and cars passing in the background ? It just shows a lack of respect for your own work, rather than anything else.

There is a bar, and that bar has risen, the more cheaper recording has become.

Good discussion !

cheers, niteshift

I think the point is that in order to "make it" or be reasonably successful, you have to be able to do everything and have everything yourself.....be able to perform (sing, play, dance, whatever), write your own songs, look the part, act the part, have the right voice, promote yourself on social media, etc. etc. If you don't, someone else does. There are 10,000 people trying to make it for everyone who succeeds and since there are so many to choose from, those who have it all and do it all are the only ones who have a chance.

Pitching songs is a complete waste of time and money. The only place we have a chance of success is placing songs in the plethora of TV shows and films that need music. And the only thing most of them want is something that sounds like what is on the radio without the costs associated with using a well-known artist. So if your music does not sound current and high quality, that too is a waste of time and effort.

Thanks Marc. Can I just put another big ditto on everything you said?

I always have to chuckle when people complain how other people make money and find success. If you have superior product, then work your ass off and prove it. But you say it is too expensive and too much work? Well, do you really think all those Nashville people just "phoned it in" to find success? It is a long hard slog. Few are talented enough to succeed and even fewer have the work ethic and persistence to get it done. Whine all you want. Either play by the rules of the people you wish to use to make your dreams come true, OR build a better mousetrap and prove your way works better. People have been doing that since Day 1 and plenty of them have come from nowhere, busted their ass, sold out in every way with maximum effort and all the talent they can muster, but none of them have EVER succeeded by bitching, whining, blaming or writing hot air articles like the one above.

The guy knows less about any of it than 80% of our message board regulars. (And that is thanks to some people who know better constantly trying to help people understand the reality). Kick and scream, bitch and moan and blame all you want. Plenty of people have the talent and drive to succeed, most don't. That's the way it is in EVERY field of work in the world.

Brian

Um, Yes,
I have been told the same thing, by Nashville Producers. That they want a Raw Demo, not a Polished Demo with no gist of the song left. But Nashville Publishers do want a Polished Demo perferably done in Nashville. So do it your way!

You know how it is Brian - It's easier to complain and blame others.

"fewer have the work ethic and persistence to get it done."

I remember when I was still involved in managing artists rather than producing music, how many singers and bands thought they will just get a "management" behind them and all of a sudden they storm the charts.
After having told them that they shouldn't expect ANY money for at least 3-5 years but a lot of hard work, lots of free gigs, lots of studio and songwriting time and living like they live in a poor house they normally decided to keep looking for a manager who promises fame & fortune because they are so talented. Big lol for me. Especially in Ireland, you can't spit without hitting a talented musician and yet, they have to be on the streets playing after their regular 9-5 job to make some money with their music.
And the hard work doesn't stop after success, it gets even harder. One band we managed to get into the top 10 of the Irish charts with their first two singles thought they are "made" now and went with the first US management that contacted them to break them into the US market and become big (for a big fee upfront of course + the usual 20%). I wanted them to go with another Irish management who made one of Ireland's biggest acts after I decided to drop management and concentrate on music production, but the promise of big money without having to work was too tempting for them. A year and a half later now - don't think anyone of you guys have heard of them. It took them 3 years of hard work to get where they were in their own country. How can they believe that they can get to an even higher level in the US with less work and time and effort?
But, in the end, they can blame someone other than themselves. The only issue is, the person they can blame has their money and doesn't really care. Enough dreamers out there anyways.

Sorry if I am emphatic, it just gets to a point of WILL YOU GET INTO THE 21ST century?

Ray, Umm, (I always like when you do that, LOL!) the actual thing is that there still are producers and artists that like a simple stripped down demo, guitar or piano only. But almost EVERYBODY does those FIRST. That is what you have to play up against the other 200 songs you have written for a publisher, to see which 8 or ten get full demo budget. Again, we are back to the 'Wow, they won't BOTH MUSIC AND LYRICS on songs!" DUH!!!

But no matter who you play something for, THEY are going to have to play it for OTHER PEOPLE. Those people MAY NOT (PROBABLY WON'T) be able to hear "through" a simple guitar vocal. Also, producers in this town (just like all around the world) are producing THEIR SONGS ON THEIR ARTISTS. Those are where those full production songs are coming from. They are doing it on their OWN songs. YOU HAVE TO PRESENT SOMETHING THAT OUTDOES THEIR OWN SONGS. Do you think that you can just sluff by and not do what THEY are having to do themselves.

Some of you who have listened to country for a while might remember an artist named RANDY TRAVIS. Randy was/is a GREAT SINGER, and pretty good writer himself. His last number one was called THREE WOODEN CROSSES. Came out about 10 years ago, but this is just for the discussion. The writer of that song was Kim Williams, who had written many songs for Garth Brooks and is one of the most sought after writers "from the old school" around. He is one of my co-writers.
The other writer on that song was DOUG JOHNSON. The demo of that song was fully produced and sounded like the record. BECAUSE IT WAS THE RECORD. The producer of Randy Travis and that song was DOUG JOHNSON.
And that was an amazingly well written song. It hit all the buttons. (See the other thread about "what makes an artist want to record your song) But it ALSO had a great sounding demo. There was not much changed in the final product. So if you were pitching songs to Randy Travis for that project, you would have to have a BETTER WRITTEN SONG, and AS GOOD A DEMO.

If it wasn't AS GOOD A DEMO it WOULD NOT MAKE IT THROUGH the probably 2000 songs that were pitched to Randy at that time.

And this is more so now. The "Writing teams" that this producer mentioned, have been around for years. In the early days of Randy Travis, it was Don Schlitz, and Paul Overstreet. They had dozens of huge Randy cuts. Fast forward over the years to now and you get Josh Kear, and a few dozen other writers who are getting the cuts. They had some success and success breeds success.

And they are ARTISTS themselves.They are working with OTHER ARTISTS. Those artists do full production songs that they may cut in the next two or three years when they get their own record deals.

That is how this works. It is not personal, it is business. An ego filled business, where the best doesn't always win, life ain't fair, and songs and artists that NONE OF US feel are worthy to be "up there", are. And songs and artists NONE OF US feel are getting their just desserts (or ourselves) are not.

But everyone can NOT PLAY. Everyone who doesn't like it DOES NOT HAVE TO PARTICIPATE. No one forces anyone to do any of this. Complaining about the way it is, just doesn't make any sense to me. But what do I know?

MAB

Dave,

I want to address something you asked about "Nashville producers" and executives" all doing their own "full blown" productions. Don't you realize that everyone, every writer, every executive, every producer, are ALL TRYING TO PRODUCE ACTS TOO. So the "demos" they are producing (I don't even like that term anymore), are more "vehicles" for artists of their own.

Writers are doing the same things. EVERY SINGLE HIT WRITER IN THIS TOWN, is walking around with their own 'future" artists of tomorrow. These artists are also writers. So they are all producing the full up productions because it pitches not only the song but their artist as well. It is about 'UPPING THE LEVEL OF YOUR ODDS."

Say you are a "Nashville writer", (and I am not just talking about people who live here, but people making trips, people who are donig things in their own communities, but building and keeping relationships with Nashville as their primary focus)and you are writing songs with young artists, older artists, younger writers, older writers.
With one or more of those artists, you write songs that you or your publishing contacts find very commerical. (out of dozens of songs that ARE NOT COMMERICAL.) Now you could record one of those songs just to pitch and that would be it.

Or you could write something with one of those artist/writers. That artist/writer is out performing the song, playing it all over, it is on their web site. They do a YOU TUBE video on it. At the same time, that song is being PITCHED by the writer as well. The singer is the vehicle and just one of the avenues. Sometimes multiple artists are involved and that multiplies the process. It is all about getting songs out there in various avenues.

If they come under the conrol of larger companies, there might be more control on the artist and the song, but until someone steps up with money and political contacts, you pitch it all over.

One of the artists I have worked with Megan Linsey, is on the Voice right now. Her main supporter, co-writer and best friend is Julie Moriva. Julie lives in Green Bay, but they have been working together for ten years. Julie has been in LA with Megan and when the Voice airs, on screen pops up.... Julie Moriva.

Now if Megan gets high on that show or wins, she will have a lot more attention. She already had one deal with STEEL MAGNOLIA, her duo from a few years ago. That will bring Julie and her songs into play on any future deals, not just from Megan,but also in people she knows as a writer. Hillary,from Lady Antibellum, has been getting cuts as a writer on other artists, recently.

So all of this is finding ways to up the level of your odds.Write great songs. Write with and interact with great artists. Get quality recordings. Support the artists and they support you. Builds viablity. Continue contacts. write more songs with more artists...

Wash,rinse, repeat. Cycle continues.

MAB

Well,
If you expect me to get off my *** and work Marc I will remind you of a story Archie Campbell once told. A guy was applying for a job. He asked the employer how much he would pay. The employer said, I'll pay you what you are worth. The guy thought for a moment and then said, no, won't work for that. Well, back to the Salt Mines!

Brian, it's unfair to describe anyone who brings up the expense of a $1000 demo as whining or bitching. Or unwilling to work hard. I know a lot of hard workers who think the price of cable or satellite tv is outrageous. In an early 70s interview with Rolling Stone Paul Simon complained about studio costs. A person with a good ear shouldn't need a radio ready demo. But, hey, that's the biz. At least let people vent a little. Are you gonna say I'm not a hard working writer? Hell, when I first posted on JPF I didn't even know about demo studios.

Marc, your posts are too long and too purple. Take a Valium and tone it down a few notches. I'm glad you finally got your big break of producing a teen age girl after being in Nashville since 1947. Good for you. But that girl may not be able to write songs. If Brian Jones, Garth Hudson, Roger Daltrey and friggin' Elvis never learned to do it in spite of being surrounded by great song writers, don't think you're gonna turn her into Carole King. Especially when you're not Gerry Goffin yourself.

At any rate, complaining about the music business over and over is a waste of time. It's always been unfair and more than slightly corrupt. You might as well complain that that guy you voted for who was gonna bring change turned out to be a total dud. What did you think was gonna happen? Just write your songs, show some vision and with a little luck and a lot of perseverance, you'll at least have some great songs.

And remember...the future belongs to those who get there.

Don't read em Couch. Hows that for short?

You've convinced me! I think I'll take up farming... much better odds... LOL!

Have a great week.

Dave

Funny thing..when I get together with my bluegrass friends, this type of topic never comes up. We just play music.

I have a friend who lives in The Everglades who throws three "pick-in" party's a year. I went to the last one a couple of weeks ago. It's a weekend thing where people bring campers, motor homes, and tents. The host provides food, showers, and toilets. There were maybe 75 musicians there.

I've been to three of these, and everyone I've been to was just a weekend of music and picking your fingers raw. No one talks about Nashville, though several songwriters go there. We just play the old songs and teach each other songs they may not know. Commercial music is out of the realm. A few bands show up but no one has a showcase. If you want to play and sing around the fire or on the porch, anyone can join in.

The point is that the music itself and the mutual camaraderie is what's important. Not someone's quest for recognition.

I stayed up Saturday night till 2:00AM with another songwriter just playing our own music back and forth. No talk about how fair or unfair the music industry is, we just played music.

Haha, this is the Internet allright. A songwriter complains online. The guy have two songs up on the site nite liked to. If that's what he believes will fly in Nashville, he's nothing but delusional.

It's still about the song, everything else is just BS.

I can understand folks want in on the Nashville circuit, but to be honest, most people don't even remotely understand what it takes to write a real song, about something. If Suzy Quattro was able to have a hit in Nashville, I would jump on the cromudge.. cramidg.. crome.. complaining wagon too.. but she hasn't.

I think y'all should stop whinging and write songs.

Vic

Hey Kolstad,

Well, I put that link up as attribution, and never looked at it.... perhaps I should have ?

It looks a little thin on substance ..... hmmmmm....... "sorry, you can't hear more because of copyright" ..... sounds like a cop out clause.

Oh well, it isn't the first time a complainer has been an empty barrel of wind. *shrugs*

All good for a bit of verbage though.

cheers, niteshift

I think some of you believe that Nashville USA is the be all and
only place where a Country Writer can find success

The Australian Scene has many interesting vocalist's both Mail and female and many Girl Band Trio's

Marc has often given us information about the many publishers
and Studios who have closed down in the last five years

If the only genre you can write in is Country then at one time Nashville was the place to go and try your luck, but Nashville Country is so diverse these days, and most singers are writing there own stuff.

My advice to any wanna be writer is to write in every genre
you can and that way you open up a bigger market place for your work and you should come a better writer

As someone else here states every one wants radio finished
demos gone are the days when a publisher would pay for a demo cost for outside writers

Ben Willis....Amen to that...your point is exactly what was going through my mind reading this. I think people are far too caught up in the end result and don't focus enough on the "journey of the continuous present".

A while back I had the pleasure of flying with a very successful European cover band, Hermes House Band who live for their music, are passionate about performing, and had some breaks along the way they were smart enough to capitalize on. ...point being "it's all about the music"

And the reason why everything sounds the same is because the theory is, if they liked this, they will like that...but in reality, no one knows what makes a hit and no one knows what will capture the mindshare of the audience tomorrow\6 months from now...which is when the music written today MAY hit the public.

The reason I buy into what Marc says is because I buy into Brian's theory of the successful regional artist, (build a local base as a springboard for growth...which, if growth does not happen, will at least feed you) and Marc's advice to build relationships and relating it to branding.

It's like that in every business...it is all about who knows you (and likes you and wants to do business with you) when the time comes to make a decision.

Cheyenne,

You actually bring up something ELSE about what has been going on and what is happening with artists in regard to Nashville. Actually,one of the questions record companies, publishers, management companies are asking now is "What kind of fan base do you have and how many people are coming to your current shows?"

Record companies no longer build from the ground up. They are going to add to what you have already done, but unless there is a pretty significant start, they are not going to get involved.

Publishing companies have moved into the role of "artist development' that record companies used to do. That is why now ARTISTS are the key, not SONGS. Record companies are now DISTRIBUTORS. If an artist does not have a pretty hefty viral presence, if they do not have a really good live componant and "home town" contingent, it is going to be a pretty uphill battle.
Because the competition for funding, for backing, for attention, is very fierce.

That is why in everything you do when it comes to writing, recording, video, fan base, networking, publicity, etc. they all play in together. So you can't just concentrate on one thing anymore.

MAB

Marc, you are 100% dead on.

Here's my story. In 2008, I joined a website, can't remember the name, but for $8 a month you can submit songs to labels, festivals, etc. I'm sure they're still around. I remember Bob Cushing saying that he got lots of gigs from this website.

They were asking for submissions for Rounder Records out of Boston, so I sent in a few songs just for the hell of it.

After a few months I started reading on their forums that the Rounder Records request was a scam to keep bringing in the money from submissions. I can see that.

A little later I got an e-mail from an A&R guy from Rounder. He named the songs that I submitted and said that he was impressed. He asked me if I played live in the northeast and if so, where. I had to tell him no I don't play live in the northeast. I hardly play live at all. Wrong place at the wrong time I guess.

He wanted to go catch my act, but I had no act to catch. So I chalked it up.

It's still nice to know that I was recognized for a brief time and can play with the big boys.

Ben,

That is a good story, and very familiar. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there willing and able to separate people from their money. Look, everyone wants to "discover the next big thing.'
really believes that they might find that one "diamond in the rough", that no one ever found. But there is just NO WAY to go spend a lot of money, time political capital over something that just might not work out. And for everything that works out, there are dozens and hundreds that don't.

They are all trying to "hedge their bets." Find a good song, or even great song, but a songwriter with no track record, no inside contacts, no ability to do anythnig but deliever that song, you still have to find an artist. Still have to get recordings. Still have to get political contacts. You also have to go up against the people you need, the higher level people, producers, publishers, record people, and THEIR own "discoveries."

Now, if they have someone who has a strong presence in Iowa, Illinois, Michigan, Florida, Georgia, etc. that is middle America, and is a place they can immediately move to sell product.

So they wanted to see where you were playing. Another thing people forget. Radio is only there to advertise live gigs for artists. Record labels focus on the regions artists will be playing in. That is where they spend money, buy advertising, billboards, ads on television, local radio, tie ins to the beer advertisers, car dealerships, local businesses.

No, touring artist, no airplay. There is no reason to. Songs are not mindless, faceless entities. They have to have artists to represent them.

I am getting a TON of information, emails, industry information all about the streaming issues. Some like Jody are all for it. Most, are not. There were meetings in Congress last week. It is a very hot topic, and not just here but worldwide.

But if you break it down, to ANY ONE who is doing this it comes back to the PERFORMING ARTISTS, who are going to stay in this business. All the rest are peeling away. I don't think the "pure songwriter" without a personal involvement with an artist is even going to exist in five years. I think they will be totally gone. And I think the money that is being paid now is going to be gone too.

The performing artist will exist. I don't know exactly how, but I believe that is what is going to be left. The best thing is to prepare for that now.

MAB

I think people can work hard doing the wrong tasks while something simpler and easier would likely cut their workload and save them lots of money. The following is a general example and I am not saying it does or doesn't apply to you as I don't know that I have heard your music.

I know people who spend money on songs that simply aren't good enough. Sometimes they aren't finished, sometimes there's glaring weaknesses which the writer is incapable of hearing/reading/seeing. Same can be said for the "hard work" that is happening. Often people say they are working hard when all they are doing is working hard at their day job and then throwing money at their music in hopes of that working out for them. It rarely does.

If you are the writer, odds are you are the very last person who should be picking which songs to spend money on and whether a song with potential is truly finished and ready. It is typically the last great skill a successful writer perfects if they ever do. Find decision makers who buy talent (i.e. active booking agents for high profile venues for artists or PRO's/Publishers with CURRENT hits in their catalog for writers as examples. Get THEIR opinion of whether your work is ready. And NOT as a service or as a referral for recording work but simply a real opinion that said person would attach their name to as giving THEIR stamp of approval. If you get that, perhaps it is time to spend 500-1000 dollars on a demo. And make sure the people doing the demo are active in the business doing demos for signed writers with hits in current catalogs getting airplay. (Again, this is simply 1 single suggestion... there's plenty more work that needs to be done before spending money and moving forward.

Money will never solve your problems or achieve your goals for you. You'll get scammed and sweet talked and abused by the people you're paying more often than not.

I could go on, but you don't like long articles. Respond with a link to your very best, unquestionably ready for success song, recorded with as simple a recording as you please. Get me, Marc and SongCat to all agree it is ready to spend money on. If we ALL agree (3 people with nothing to gain by telling you to spend a dime) then you probably have something truly worthy of doing it. If you can't get past all three of us, you're wasting your time with the actual industry. If you don't want our opinions, that's fine with me. But you need to find people to give you honest blunt feedback who aren't looking to make a buck off you and who have a clue about the brutal reality and competition of the business. (Again, I have no idea if those other two would be up for it, but if they are, we'll all simply offer a thumbs up or down, with no editorializing. One of us might make a mistake, but not all 3 combined.

If Ray isn't interested, I will open it up to someone else. The point will be to give someone a reality check and do them a favor by saving them perhaps a $1000 bucks and lots of wasted time and additional money and frustration. I would do it for everyone but I don't have the time with music awards screening starting up. We might even add one comment IF the songs is worth editing/rewriting/developing further or if it's a non starter.

Any takers? (Marc, SongCat?)

Brian

Brian,

I would always be more than happy to help anyone on these pages. The reason I am here is to offer help. You have developed something here that is truely valuable and if people will take advantage of it, instead of cursing the darkness or things they don't or refuse to accept or understand, they would really increase their odds of achieving something tangible.

Let me ditto something you said, and see if I can add. One of the biggest problems we all have in songwriting is bringing in "what the industry already has too much of." It is very difficult to work unceasingly on songs, smoothing out lyrics, melody, getting it just right, spending money and endless hours on getting it ready for a very well crafted demo, only to have some publisher, ASCAP, BMI, or other person, turn it off two lines into the first verse and say "nope...what else you got?"

A huge part of that problem is BRINGING IN THE SAME THINGS the industry already has. Writers will hear something on the radio,and rush to get THEIR version of that recorded and ready to pitch. What they don't seem to understand is that THAT IS ALREADY ON THE RADIO. And due to the way trends develop and are maintained, over generally a three year period, they don't realize they are already behind the curve.

About six years ago, when I noticed these two guys around town, playing writers shows, seemingly being everywhere, I didn't think a lot of it. The fact that they were hanging out with hit songwriter Craig Wiseman, just seemed like a million other people hanging out with a hit writer, trying to be the next big thing. We see it every day here.

When that duo became FLA/GA. LINE, and those songs they were working on with Craig, became EVERYWHERE, then we started paying attention.And when CRUISE kicked off this entire rash of "TAILGATE, DRINKING BEER, DOWN BY THE RIVER WITH MY GIRL NAMED GURL DANCING IN HER SHORT SHORTS IN THE MOONLIGHT,BRO-COUNTRY", suddenly EVERYBODY had those songs, those grooves, those sounds on their records. Hell, I even had my share.

But I am savyy enough and have been around enough to know that I missed that little wave and needed to move on to the next one. Most don't realize that and still bring in the same thing. So many writers will be paying those $1000-$2500 to those studios, to get THEIR version of THAT song, done and in the pipeline, without realizing that pipeline is closed and they are looking for the next trend coming on the next Fla. Ga line who will be popping out in the next two years.

That is how this business is played. Most people don't see that, and are only frustrated when they hear "next." Then they hear the denigration of the radio and podcasting and denigrate that. Frustration builds on frustration and they spill to the rant sections.

And of course the other side of it, where I scream and yell about dovetaling into your own suggestions, FORGET ABOUT TRYING TO GET TO THOSE ARTISTS. THEY ARE GONE. DONE. CLOSED OFF TO YOU. FIND THE NEXT ARTISTS. FIND SOMEONE IN YOUR OWN AREA. Don't get mad when people are not going to record your songs. Find someone who WILL record your songs and write songs with them.

It is sitting right in front of you. All you have to do is understand it and deal with it. Nothing is easy or assured. But no one forced you to do any of this.

I am always at the service of anyone here that needs me. And you sir Brian. Thanks for the opportunities you create for people here.

MAB

Hey all,

Feeling quite humbled about my original post, but please let the discussion continue.

To get REAL opinion is something JPF strives for, and I hope that will continue !

cheers, niteshift

Just sharing information. No need to be "humbled at all," You're not the one making inane comments.

It's all good and especially the wonderful Fellowship here. We are like a Support Group for Songwriters Anonymous...lol I love coming here and shooting the breeze. ALL the opinions above are right on the Mark and MOST of us Won't ever be able to get success in the Business. BUT Songwriting is A Gift From God and we are his Messengers. We can longer stop than stop breathing. I say write from the Heart and Post on your Youtube page or someplace else for anybody than may come along. I just picked up a book written in 1930 or something like that. I LOVED It and couldn't stop thinking about the Book for weeks. SO Some guy like me goes to a Library and Finds an OLD book and Loves it. Our recordings will be around for a long time and you never know who will stumble across one that had meaning to them. IF that is all we do in life it's more than most. We are leaving a Footprint on the Planet and for that we are to be commended.
B

Vic and Ben said it, just get busy on that next song. Write and play because you love to, are driven to.....don't worry about what's going on in a hub you don't operate in. Turn off the tube and write another song for the pile. Because you WANT to.

I started reading the topic and couldn't help but to grow curious, it might seem strange for a lot of people that someone from Mexico as myself is interested in the Nashville country scene, and now that I read comments from a Nashville producer I would like to ask a couple of questions since I don't know if I am understanding correctly:
1.- If a songwriter wants to give a song to an artist, it has to be fully produced? you can't send a song done in a home studio? I ask this because I have developed through the years and invested in getting a home studio and computer software to record my songs, I play acoustic and electric guitar, bass, keyboards and I use drum loops or program drums since I am not a drummer, if I wanted to send a recording of a song of mine done like this, it wouldn't be considered at all?

2.- Now, supposing artists would accept songs like this, it would have to be written focusing on his style?

3.- Aren't artists that are not songwriters looking for new talent? I believe that music has to evolve, you can't have always the same writers having their songs cut, and I do believe there is a lot of talent out there, just as an example here we have a lot of good writers, so why doesn't the music industry opens it ears a little bit more? I think that it would be benefitial to keep the evolution of music going.

4.- If I understood correctly, now songwriters don't get listened to by big artists out there if you don't have connections? I think that everybody started without connections, and somebody listened to a song and got a hold of the writer, so it doesn't work that way anymore?

I know my questions may sound obvious but I would like information about this, I am a songwriter and guitarist myself, I have even been offering online sessions here in the forum and I was lucky enough to be hired by Mr. Dave Rice to do an arrangement for one of his songs, so any information on how does it work would be great. I would like to know also if by any chance Mr. Barnette is willing to listen to a songwriter like me, if so, here is a link to my soundcloud page, just to know if I am on the right track or not
https://soundcloud.com/antonioelcompositor75

Hello Tony,

A lot of questions you ask, and I will try to but a lot will be difficult to understand because just like I am not in your town, know what you have to go through to do what you do, what your job is, what your contacts are, etc. I couldn't tell you what you should do. If you are wanting to have a relationship with my town and the business I am, I can give you some observations.

#1. You are not going to "give artists", particularly signed recording artists, anything. No one takes anything from anyone they don't know. There are many reasons, not least from one of the things we have all been talking about, lawsuits.
If you have been reading along on the Blurred Lines lawsuit, you will find what happens when two people cop enough on someone else's melody or even hint at the melody. Lawyers line up and lawsuits fly left and right, so no one is going to take a chance on anything.

And you have not EARNED that place yet.You don't know anyone. If you are talking about sending anything to anyone, there is already a problem. The only people who you can send anything to without knowing them are the sharks that are going to take what you have done, RECUT it with THEIR STUDIOS CHARGE YOU, and then keep coming back to you for more money.

Let me see if I can put it in a way you can understand. Think of what it has taken you to get where you are. the years it took you to learn to play those instruments. The thousands of dollars you spent on lessons, equipment, hours and hours you spent learning to use it, the equipment you had to replace, the updates you had to do, the people you had to deal with,the jerks who didn't pay you, spending money on advertising, trips, etc. Time away from family,home, working OTHER jobs to keep income coming in so you can invest in your career.

Now, imagine someone YOU DON'T KNOW drives you crazy trying to get you to promote THEIR product over yours. They are not even as good as you are, but they DEMAND that you pass their stuff on and work on getting their stuff out there instead of theirs.

How would you handle that?

You wouldn't if you have any sense.

You haven't built any contacts here. You haven't interacted with anyone. They have. They have moved into this area or spent substatial time learning the rules.

I have listened to your song. I'm an Outlaw is okay.Fairly stilted language, much like was done here several years ago.
The drums sound like loops,because they are. The guitar sounds are decent but not overwhelming. All in all, not a bad song but also nothing that would break down anyone's door.
And it sounds like LOT OF THINGS that are here. Almost everyone has their own studios, their own recording equipment. So it is very similar. Nothing wrong with it, but there is a big difference in what a lot of writers in this town, particularly the big dogs that get the cuts,do.

They actually use the same musicians that play on the major records. They use live musicians who are current on the sounds, the styles, who are actually often ahead of the curve of what is coming next. And they spend a LOT MORE MONEY than you do. Higher returns, require higher investment.

Most would not realize this unless they listened to thousands upon thousands of songs every day,week, month. It is very hard to explain unless you do it, which is what I suggest people do. Go to a web site that has thousands of songs. Listen for thirty minutes, an hour, two hours, and see which songs stand out. What productions stand out? Until you do that you don't have background to go from.

#2. Yes you would need to focus on what style, keys, TYPES of songs an artist wants. You have to know what they have recorded before, what subjects they are over. A few years back Kenny Chesney, one of the top country artists, went through a mid life crisis. He married and divorced a Hollywood actress and went to the islands for about a year.
He came out with an album, NO SHOES, NO SHIRT,NO PROBLEM, and for the next three years did nothing but beach songs. Sand, sun, tequila, flip flops, island women, tiki bars, etc.

It was a calculated thing, to get him the "Jimmy Buffett Perinial summer audience." You know, those people that spend a billion dollars a year on concerts, trips, t-shirts, hats, beer coozies, etc. and party all summer? The two-three billion dollar summer concert audience. Those guys.

Well he got em, and everybody else followed suit with a ton of summer songs.

Then Chesneym went through another phase, and there were quiet memos among the Nashville insiders to "NO MORE BEACH SONGS, NO MORE SAND, NO MORE TEQUILA. Kenny is done with this subject.

And he went on to songs about family, putting down roots, looking back on your life as you get older, etc.
The people on the outside kept bringing in the beach and summer songs and were all promptly weeded out of everything.

That is what insiders do. They know where the trends are, where they peak, where they decline. And they know it before most other people even see it coming. they are writing, recording, pitching and grooming THE NEXT TREND. And they have dozens and dozens of artists and people they work with.

#3. For the past 15 years there have not been any artists who are NOT SIGNED as writers first. Everyone writes even though they might not get songs even on their own records at first. If you notice people like Carrie Underwood, Miranda Lambert, Martina McBride and others who are now writing more and more of their own songs. They actually have been writing all alone, just the labels have had them recording other songs by other writers. They still write and have to compete for THEIR OWN records.

So you are going to have to be involved with them,their writer's circles,producers, inner contacts to even be considered in the first place. So your best bet is to be looking for the NEXT PEOPLE who are going to be coming through the pipelines.

One thing I constantly harp on is finding people in your own area who might be trying to make that run at Nashville, New York, LA.The ones who will be trying out for American Idol or the Voice.the local Karaoke singers. Always looking for dozens of new people. Young,excited energized people. That is what you are looking for.

#4. Connections start one at a time. As an artist or a writer you work for years with people who are unknown. Most fail and never see the light of day. Then you try to work your way to the inside.
In this business it has nothing to do with WHO YOU KNOW.
It is WHO KNOWS YOU AND HOW THEY KNOW YOU.

And your personality has to be known before anyone will ever listen to what you are doing. Everyone has songs, everyone has artists, everyone has dreams. Everyone is looking for ALLIES. And those are built a little at a time. If you are a jerk or don't do the same thing everyone else does, you are not even considered to begin with. Takes a LONG time.

Your reputation has to preceed you. They have to hear ABOUT you first, before they HEAR YOU.

MAB

i'm still waiting for the anti country country wave. Church on sunday? Screw that.
Dog died? No he's drooling all over bedroom. Got dumped? Hell no. I dumped her ass. Tail gating at the local walmart? I'm at the strip club cause i am single baby!

Aaron,

Write those songs. If you think you have a fresh approach, or a retro approach that hasn't been around in a while, go ahead and write them, find the ones that neutral people say HELL YES and make your case to those with the power to do something. Or better, develop the perfect artist that fits your idea and get him or her ready to take the industry by storm. You certainly shouldn't wait for a wave, as Marc correctly stated, by the time you see the wave coming in towards you, it's already too late. You need to create a new wave and hope it crashes the beach head.

That's the way you need to do it these days. Don't wait for it, do it yourself!

Brian

Never have truer words been spoken. And you know what? ALL THOSE ARTISTS you hear out there right now? At some point, they were doing the exact same thing. SOMEONE was inventing a niche around their music.

If anyone remembers a record label called ARISTA, in the 80's/90's, that had artists like ALAN JACKSON, BROOKS AND DUNN,PAM TILLIS, and dozens of other really big stars, that was started by a man named TIM DUBOIS. Tim was a songwriter who had morphed into a producer, and then started his own record label. The label was created to promote a group named RESTLESS HEART.

That was simply a band Tim put together to do all of HIS songs. So an entire label and hundreds of hits, came together because one guy wanted HIS songs out here. That was 1989. That is the same thing that is going on today,whether it is Taylor Swift (same deal) to whoever will be ruling the airwaves five years from now.

Most of this business is MAKING IT UP AS YOU GO,DO IT YOURSELF. Dont' wait for trends.Don't try to "please" an industry that most of the time doesn't even KNOW what it wants.

Build your own playbook. But in my experience, and what Brian is telling you,you are never going to find that trying to fit in with other people. You have to take YOUR VISION the way YOU want it. If it doesn't fit into an already established, narrowly defined niche, create your own. That is what the "Big Dogs" do.

MAB

Very true Brian. I think Kacey Musgraves has started on that wave although she is still singing country hers is a different kind of country than what has been put out there. I am a big fan of hers. I'm not much into writing anymore although I have plenty of hooks and ideas. Like a song about an alarm clock going off and nobody is home and it drives the singer who is next door crazy so he finally kicks the door in and he walks into the room and sees two deaf people having sex.
Yep that's messed up.

I understand the fact about making connections, it is important, BUT, following the trend of today's country that's another story, a lot of the music we hear today is NOT country, it's a fusion, but it's NOT country, even if they label it as such, I have been listening and only a few artists have that country feel to their songs, so if not following the trend makes us outlaws, so be it, sooner or later the industry will realize their wrong doing in trying to experiment with music, I am not against evolution, but the things that make country music have to remain, you may use current topics, maybe new chord progressions, but the country feel and essence must never be lost, I do hope the industry changes for the better and not for the worst.

I think the disconnect that people make is saying what is on the radio is the country music that every one is playing or wants to play. No, the music on the radio is what is selling to the younger audience that wants to party and dance -- and is willing to buy music, go to concerts and buy T-shirts, hats ... etc. There are tons of artists still doing the more "truer" country sound -- but they might be labelled amerciana. Or they might be doing what is called "traditional country". I was around country music growing up (traditional), but never really was into it -- it was old people's music (ha, ha). It must have been terrible for those 30-40 year old country artists who were just hitting theie prime in the 90's when suddenly country went "young"!

Tony,

The main problem is that country is probably not going to change the way YOU think it is better. It is not for you to say. You are not the target audience for today's country music and music doesn't go backwards.

This is the longest arguments there are. And they have always gone on. People complained when Jimmie Rodgers and the Carter Family came on the scene claiming they were "blues or folk", people complained when they were replaced by "Texas Swing" music which they complained was just "Big Band Music" desquised, people complained when "Hank Williams Senior' brought that "Alabama hillbilly music in, when Buck Owens brought drums to the Grand Ole Opry, When jimmy Dean, Tennessee Ernie Ford, Patsy Cline and jim Reeves added strings to "countrypoliton", when Hank Jr. did that "rock and roll" when Alabama did that pop music, Garth Brooks did huge light shows, Shania Twain showed her belly button, Rascal Flatts and Taylor Swift, brought "Kiddie Music In" and now that the current rock and pop sounding music.

There have always been a contengent that will proclaim it is "not country. I will tell you what Tony Brown, president of MCA records once told me. "If country writers write it,country record companies release it, country radio plays it, country critics accept it, country audiences pay for it, it is country."

One of the things we all have to do is accept that we don't always get the music WE WANT. Sometimes our time moves on.

MAB

I think that is the main problem, that the industry just thinks about the money, and it's ok, money is an important factor, but where is the artistry of music then? I admit, it's great hearing a "modern country" dance tune, but people still want the country styles of George Strait, Alan Jackson, etc. Profound lyrics, songs that say something and mean something, not just
"plastic songs" In Mexico there is the same problem, people get used to hearing meaningless songs and forget about good music, and the ones to blame unfortunately are the music industry, I know the industry wants to sell, but I feel in my opinion they are sacrificing quality and integrity in the music, I know I may offend the industry, but it's not just my opinion, it's a lot of peoples opinion that music has decayed and the problem is they don't want to listen to music with a positive message, with lyrics that get to your heart, I am a songwriter like so many in this world, and I say again, trends are not always right, even if the industry says, the thing here is that the music industry needs to open its ears and eyes, there is a lot of talent out there, writers, musicians, etc. But it seems to me that they want just to have a "select circle" when they should open and embrace more talents. I don't mean to offend anyone out there, it is just my opinion, and well, it is sometimes wise to hear what the people say, I am not against the evolution, I am against "plastic music" that is created just to sell. Sell music with heart and quality, and you'll see what happens.

I think I'll follow Vic's instructions and get busy writing another song. With that in mind, I'm planning to "steal" Tony's idea of "Plastic Music." (Don't worry, Tony... if I come up with something worthwhile, I'll list you as a Co-Writer!)

Gotta get back to NCAA basketball for at least an hour. We've sure been getting some badly needed rain here.

All the best,

Dave

The songs that bug me the most are the I'm so country songs. I hate those so much.

Hey Marc....I have to give you a lot of credit....I don't know HOW you have the patience to write all you do. Kudos to YOU...I'm not sending any songs....lol
I gave up trying to make it years ago anyway and I'm OK with it.

Hey....PLASTIC MUSIC....sounds like a good title....lol
It is what it is and will be till it won't be....lol

Hey look at me everybody, I wear overalls and a John Deere hat. Hey look, I am running barefoot in the marshes. Oh look, it's time for a bonfire!

I live in a farming town. I am surrounded by farms and although I know people that are depicted in those songs most of them are not that way. City people aren't so different than small town people. It's insulting to me that country music and its writers want to depict small town people as rednecks and hicks. Everyone has a song like that. I told myself I'll never write one of those and I haven't. These seem to be the types of songs that country radio and record labels like to push. Maybe they make money. I don't know. I just don't like it so I don't listen to them.

Same with rappers and their bling.

Tony,

I realize that you would love it to go back to the "good old days" and would love to think "everybody "loves" George Straight and Alan Jackson..." actually... no, they don't. There is a new audience demographic, just like when those guys came through and replaced people before them, everyone has their run. It is no accident they have backed off touring and George has stopped completely, becauase they are at the ends of their careers in that incarnation. Their records have peaked and they don't sell as much as they did. Just a fact of life in all music.

And it is very easy to hear 18 songs on the radio and think "that is all there is.' There is a LOT of music out there, a lot of artists out there. You hear some trends and think everything is like that and it is not even close. There are many more things going on.

When I moved to Nashville in the 80's we would have 'radio hits' and "record hits." there were songs that charted very well and sold next to nothing. And songs that never got close to the top of the charts and sold a ton. just a part of what the business is.

And yes, Tony, when you are putting out MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in promotion money, failing on nine artists out of ten that you put out, they do care about the money. If you sit around waiting for this to be fair, better get into another line of work because it never will be.

Trends are what they are. Whether they are "The era of the "Angel songs" (after 9-11 where every song had an "Angel' in it), the era of the "Bar fight video. (every song was about being in bars, getting drunk in bars, fighting in bars, (had one of my own in that one, David Ball did my "TOO MUCH BLOOD IN MY ALCOHOL LEVEL") the "Angry Chick Singer Syndrome",(Next time he cheats, Gunpowder and Lead), or the "In my truck, down by the river, dancing with my girl named GURL, in the moonlight on our tailgates" they are TRENDS because they make momey. For a little while,then there will be new trends.

Right now, they are about family, home and putting down roots. Those will run out too. A lot are about younger people, partying and mixing in rap. And Tony, Country has ALWAYS been a mix of blues, folk, gospel, country, bluegrass, etc. Country is ALWAYS a mix of musical styles.

The point of this is that you have to be true to YOU. you can't chase trends. And you should be creating your own, instead of worrying about other people, and complaining about things you can't change. Like the Father of one of my playing buddies, Gunner Nelson said:

"Can't Please everyone, got to please yourself."
Ricky Nelson said that and never have truer words been spoken.

MAB