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#1069073 - 12/16/14 01:17 PM So You Write Song-Poems?  
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DonnaMarilyn Offline
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I found this video informative and highly entertaining. If you can ignore the frequent ads that pop up, I think you'll find the documentary well worth watching (and listening to). (It's a few years old, so may be familiar to some of you.)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x25472p_off-the-charts-the-song-poem-story-2003_creation?start=12

Donna


Honour the Earth. Without it, we'd be nowhere.

Life is too important to take seriously.

http://www.reverbnation.com/donnamarilynrichblend




#1069084 - 12/16/14 02:29 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: DonnaMarilyn]  
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Thanks for sharing this, but I could only handle it for a few minutes. Aside from the ads that blasted over the top of the doc, both audio and visual, it was just too sad to watch for too long.

The writers seem to have the assumption that their poems are songs without music and putting them to a "melody" will make them songs. Without a total re-write though, well, they get what they got. Not having seen the whole thing, I don't know what the point of it was but if they are happy with what they get back, I guess it's fine.

Ricki

#1069105 - 12/16/14 03:33 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Ricki E. Bellos]  
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I agree, Ricki, those ads were a darn nuisance. I gritted my teeth, though, and am glad I did. wink

It was sad in many respects, but it was also interesting to see how the songs were actually created. The musicians/bands were top-notch, though of course had to work with what we might call sub-standard lyrics. The musicians & vocalists really had to be on top of their game, because they had so little time to get through all the songs they were required to record during their hour or so in the studio.

The whole concept of selling a dream is of course quite sad. But I think for the most part, folks were thrilled to hear their songs on a record. Matter of fact, a couple of those songs were - to my mind - quite good (lyric-wise) (e.g. 'Night Whispers' and the rocking boogie song, though you might not have watched that far).

But definitely an intriguing look into the scam world.

Donna



Honour the Earth. Without it, we'd be nowhere.

Life is too important to take seriously.

http://www.reverbnation.com/donnamarilynrichblend




#1069183 - 12/17/14 03:38 AM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: DonnaMarilyn]  
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I received an actual contract from one of these unscrupulous companies when I was fresh out of high school. I think they were advertising in the music publications at the time.

So I submitted a three song demo onto one of those addresses
on the corner of Hollywood and Vine Los Angeles.

When I receieved it, I was all excited, calling people and telling them I got a contract.

it was a one song contract, and coincidently, they liked the FIRST song on the demo (I guess they figured i would believe it, since the first song you put on is usually the one you THINK is best.)

So im real happy for a few hours, until I started reading more details of the contract.

The letter said "We really liked your song, and we think it could be a big hit" "We will record the song in our facility and turn it into a great finished product, and the record will be released under our label, along with other artists that we have selected to be on the album'

"So, if everything sounds great to you, all we will need is $900 to produce and release the song."

If you would like to pay in installments, it can be paid, well you know the drill

So, im still kind of believing this, I was thinking, well yeah, the song needs to be recorded well blah blah blah

They appeal to your emotions.

After a few days of mulling it over, and my Dad wanting to go there and punch the guy in the mouth, I realized it was a scam.

I started reading some books and they warned about these things, saying that any company that wants you to pay for their album production, sees no value in you, they just want your money.

Never considered it again.

I dont think these companies are around any more, at least not in that kind of scam. People just get on the internet and bash the company left and right, so you wouldnt see that now probably.

The contract was on glossy blue paper too, lol.

They probably sent the same exact contract to thousands of people, hoping that a few might sign it.





#1069278 - 12/17/14 08:52 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Bugsey]  
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Kolstad Offline
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Yeah, I remember this film.

I don't write song-poems, but that doesn't mean there's not a poetics of songwriting. There is.

In this case it's a tragedy for the writers, but in fact also for the good musicians wasting their talents, and the business people setting all of this up. That's all they could amount to, with their lives?

When Bugsey tells the story of having been part of this tragedy, though, it becomes funny, but I guess that's exactly what tragedy was meant to be in the first place haha.

So there's a certain poetics to the whole deal, sort of like a parking lot for the wannabe's, still not a bad place despite the tragic fates.

#1069287 - 12/17/14 09:16 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Kolstad]  
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DonnaMarilyn Offline
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Yep, definitely a certain 'poetics', Magnus. wink

Bugsey's story reminded me that - to my embarrassment now blush - I got taken in by a similar scam about 18 years ago, but involving poetry: The International Library of Poetry. (Avoid it like the proverbial plague! grin )

Luckily, the money at that time involved - if I remember correctly - only $49.95.
I was so thrilled to have a poem of mine selected (and to get the printed 'award').

When the book - hard-cover, and admittedly quite attractive looking - arrived, I was shocked looking through it, and the revelation hit me that I'd been scammed. Most of the poems were so appallingly sub-standard, that I was embarrassed to have the book in my house alongside my Yeats, Eliot, and others. wink I binned it the same day.

Apropos that film: Given the high standard of the music and singers, especially compared to the cost of getting a demo nowadays - those folks might actually have got a reasonable deal for $99. wink (Though I guess $99 at that time was a hefty sum.)

Still, a scam is a scam. Bottom line: not nice.

Donna


Honour the Earth. Without it, we'd be nowhere.

Life is too important to take seriously.

http://www.reverbnation.com/donnamarilynrichblend




#1069291 - 12/17/14 09:38 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: DonnaMarilyn]  
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maccharles Offline
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I saw this a few years back, on fletnix I believe.....I found it highly engrossing, funny, sad and much like a car wreck. Some of those tunes are downright good, in a strange "so bad, they're good" way.........and just flat out comedic.

Honestly, if businesses like these "song sharks" could exist with the truth, and state that they are nothing but a vanity press, I wouldn't have an issue with it.....as long as the customer understood what was really happening, and was fine with that......but.....unfortunately, they don't represent themselves that way, always sugar coating the offers and preying on dreams.

Great documentary though.

Last edited by maccharles; 12/17/14 09:39 PM.
#1069301 - 12/17/14 11:15 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Kolstad]  
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Bugsey Offline
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Originally Posted by Kolstad


When Bugsey tells the story of having been part of this tragedy, though, it becomes funny, but I guess that's exactly what tragedy was meant to be in the first place haha.

So there's a certain poetics to the whole deal, sort of like a parking lot for the wannabe's, still not a bad place despite the tragic fates.


I was offered to be in the tragedy, I didn't.

I was actually a much better guitarist and musician then, but wasnt a good songwriter.(I know this now) I went more into writing when guys starting quitting bands I was in to get married and stuff.

Years later, I was offered a real contract for a song, from a real record company that I found in the songwriters market.

REAL in the sense he was trying to get his company off and running, and wasn't charging me anything, but useless in the sense that he wasnt anybody big, although he claimed to have a hand in a "Buck Owens" song. I went to music lawyer and he basicly told me that he didnt even have to research the guy, he knew he was a start-up and wasn't worth signing with

Even so, that demo sits on my shelf collecting dust and never did anything, so Im not sure that not signing was all that much better. 0 is 0

I don't see the story as funny at all though, I might get a kick out of it had you gotten the contract...and sent the money in.

That is the difference between humor and tragedy, humor is when I hit you over the head with a piece of wood, tragedy is when you hit me back.

These days, Im not looking for any contracts, I might release my own album, and im open to TV and Movie Markets.

#1069302 - 12/17/14 11:25 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: maccharles]  
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Bugsey Offline
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Originally Posted by maccharles
I saw this a few years back, on fletnix I believe.....I found it highly engrossing, funny, sad and much like a car wreck. Some of those tunes are downright good, in a strange "so bad, they're good" way.........and just flat out comedic.

Honestly, if businesses like these "song sharks" could exist with the truth, and state that they are nothing but a vanity press, I wouldn't have an issue with it.....as long as the customer understood what was really happening, and was fine with that......but.....unfortunately, they don't represent themselves that way, always sugar coating the offers and preying on dreams.

Great documentary though.


You're right. it's amazing what a company can get away with with the right wording, or wrong wording depending on what side you fall.


#1069304 - 12/17/14 11:49 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Bugsey]  
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My new favorite site: http://www.majesticrecords1.com/index.html

... and don't forget the double your money offer:

Originally Posted by http://www.majesticrecords1.com/index2mr.html
If we accept one of your songs or poems for recording it will AUTOMATICALLY BE ELIGIBLE to participate in our EXCLUSIVE DOUBLE EARNINGS BONUS PLAN sponsored by our parent company COUNTRYWINE PUBLISHING !!!!!!!!
If you have them as your publisher and the song hits it big anytime during the next 40 years you will earn $200,000.00 before Countrywine earns a penny !!! After that, performance royalties will be distributed 50 / 50 with ABSOLUTELY NO LIMIT to the amount you can earn if the song Hits !!!!!!!!


I saw this documentary a few years ago also. Yea, it was painful to watch a lot of it.


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#1069338 - 12/18/14 05:25 AM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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maccharles Offline
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ha hah!!.......all buzzy blinky busy, funny how many times they mention their BBB rating.

#1069651 - 12/22/14 02:35 AM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: maccharles]  
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Scott Campbell Offline
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I told myself I'd watch until the first ad. But there wasn't a single one! So I ended up watching the whole thing. I found it fascinating.

#1069660 - 12/22/14 10:18 AM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Scott Campbell]  
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DonnaMarilyn Offline
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I found it fascinating as well, Scott. Even with the ads, the whole thing had me rivetted.

Lucky you, though, not having ads pop up. wink

Donna


Honour the Earth. Without it, we'd be nowhere.

Life is too important to take seriously.

http://www.reverbnation.com/donnamarilynrichblend




#1069665 - 12/22/14 01:18 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: DonnaMarilyn]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Of COURSE these scams are still out there. They are 99% OF ALL WEB SITES AND SERVICES relating to songwriters and music. You all see them. All the time they start with the post title:

"HAS ANYONE EVER USED...."

The Internet has fostered the biggest, most universal lie there is that someone can just sit around in their living room, write up some words, send it to someone else they don't know, have never met, have no kind of understanding of anything, throw a few dollars at something and BOOM!!! They get songs cut, make tons of money, and are in the fast lane!!! Wow! Why didn't I think of that?

It's every contest you see. Every pitch service. Every film and television library. If there is not someone you can sit down, have a face to face meeting with, get to know them and have them know you, it is a WASTE OF MONEY.

End of story.

MAB

#1069667 - 12/22/14 02:28 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Bugsey Offline
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Probably still are, and there are scams still around, but it's easier to check them out online, when in the day, you knew nobody who ever dealt with them, and had no way of knowing.

If you google any questionable music company or offer, you will generally find somebody discussing them somewhere online.

All it would take it ONE person saying, ahh man that company ripped me off, and it would be enough to make you think twice.

The internet has the power to bring down those companies, but it's also unfair to legitimate companies who do business well, yet somebody is not happy, which will always be the case.

They say any publicity is good publicity, but im not sure that applies to reviews of products and services. Go on amazon and check any album or product or service, you will get a variety of good bad and indifferent responses. If the overwhelming response is negative, it's going to hurt sales.

#1069672 - 12/22/14 03:00 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Bugsey]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Bugsy,

Actually yes and no. Companies will change names or even claim that everyone is wrong,and then show you thousands of examples of people screaming their praises.

The thing is that the Internet is full of MILLIONS of dreamers. If they get even a small percentage of those,make a little money off of each of them,then people can talk about them terribly and there is never a difference at all.

Probably the worst is a company in Nashville. They are two doors down from my actual publishers on Music Row. I won't mention their name but everyone knows them. They are the same name as a very famous Hollywood movie and television company. How they get away with that, I will never know.

The name on their sign changes all the time as they change names on their company. But they are in prime real estate and always doing well. It is because there are always NEW people out there. There are always people that have never experienced any of this, don't go to web sites, have never heard their poems or songs put to music with decent players. To them, the horrible product most of us would throw up over, sounds like A SYMPHONY to them.

They follow through all the little scams and schemes, they get hooked for just a little more and just a little more... until, like Ray Strode, they go..."HUMMMM!!!!!"

By that time the company has not only gotten their money but probably their endorsement on their web site.

Put them out of business? Never.

PT Barnum said it over a hundred years ago.
"There's a sucker born every minute..."

In the Internet world, there are about 30 million of them.

A pretty rich target pool.

MAB

#1069673 - 12/22/14 03:06 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Bugsey Offline
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The thing is, somebody is interested in YOU. That blinds alot of people, regardless of what they hear, this company wrote your name and liked YOU.

it's a powerful drug so it's not going anywhere. But we also have become a nation of cynics. Nobody believes anything any more, because, basicly they shouldnt.

Some people are online all the time and attack anything they see, from news articles to songs, to artists and their families.

Cant read a news article without reading a thousand opinions from mostly people who are entertaining themselves and dont really care about the subject.

Today, everybody is a bad writer, everybody is a bad news reporter, everybody is a bad singer, everybody is a bad artist, everybody is a bad politician, everybody is a bad mailman.

If you start a company, you are in the hole right from the start, guilty until proven innocent.

Crazy world we live in now

#1069677 - 12/22/14 03:25 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Bugsey]  
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Heck,
Who cares about writing Song Poems. I am worried about getting money from Nigeria! Haven't heard from them in a month of Sundays! I'm getting worried. Yeah I know the Company in Nashville, on Music Row you are talking about Marc. I have heard that there are people waiting at the restrurants for newcomers with big offers in hand for the new recording artist ready and waiting! So what's the going rate these days.

Back in 63 I wrote a song in the Motel, In Nashville, walked in a little Hole in the Wall recording studio on Music Row and wanted to put it on tape. The proprieter told me I had to belong to the Musician's Union or I couldn't play that Guitar! He could have made an easy ten bucks. So I put My Guitar back in it's case, went back to Texas and had it recorded by a local band that I knew. Gosh, everbody's a critic! So, either Write a Hit or take Marc's tour of Music City!


Ray E. Strode
#1069691 - 12/22/14 05:26 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,389
Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
Top 50 Poster

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,389
Nashville, Tn.
Ray, who needs to wait in any resturant? There is a LINE to get to those people. Pretty much every time I pass by that particular office there are two or three people walking up with guitars on their backs.

That is really the deal. When people are consistantly coming to you,checkbooks in hand, you don't have to go anywhere. When you wake up every morning, turn on your computer and there are five hundred people wanting you to reply to them to do their songs and make them stars, when you have a dozen phone messages from people seeking you to listen to THEIR SONGS, to read THEIR POEMS, you have no reason to have to go anywhere.

They just sit around and wait for the flies to come to the spiders.

MAB

#1069703 - 12/22/14 07:31 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,412
Ray E. Strode Offline
Top 30 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,412
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Whazzat?,
There are people waiting in line to sign up these pontential recording Artists? Well blow me down. Old Lefty wasn't kidding. IF YOU'VE GOT THE MONEY, I'VE GOT THE TIME! I bet you show a lot of those around town, Eh? I see a few producers, etc, are looking for songs as listed on the Taxi Site. I know, I know. all those Artists write their own songs. Cuts out the middle man that way.


Ray E. Strode
#1070418 - 01/01/15 07:49 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,429
Rick Norton Offline
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Rick Norton  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,429
St. Augustine, FL
I found this very interesting. The people in the film seemed pleased with the results, but what about the thousands not in the film who weren't. I think the musicians were really trying to do right by the "poets". I got no ads during the video. A few years ago I wrote a song about this very subject. I wrote the music, but maybe I ought to send it in.


Your Words, My Music
©copyright 2001 Rick Norton

[v1]
Send me your lyrics
I'll make it a song
For a hundred bucks
How can you go wrong

[v2]
I'll write a melody
That stays in your head
If I used it before
God will strike me dead

[ch]
Your words, my music
Together we're a team
You'll go to number one
I know you have that dream

[v3]
We have a live band
For your demo CD's
You keep all the rights
Get all the royalties

[v4]
Read the success stories
They're on my web site
The glowing reviews
Will make it feel right

[ch]
Your words, my music
Together we're a team
You'll go to number one
I know you have that dream
[v5]
What are you waiting for
Its not very hard
So send me your words
Address and master card

[ch]
Your words, my music
Together we're a team
You'll go to number one
I know you have that dream

#1070420 - 01/01/15 08:34 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Rick Norton]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,259
Barry David Butler (D) Offline
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Barry David Butler (D)  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,259
Sebring, Florida USA
Love this poem you wrote here....where can I hear the song?

#1070422 - 01/01/15 08:46 PM Re: So You Write Song-Poems? [Re: Barry David Butler (D)]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,429
Rick Norton Offline
Top 200 Poster
Rick Norton  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,429
St. Augustine, FL
Barry,

I only did a one-take make it up as you go along version and it's here.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=9115375


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