Wow! I never even saw this thread. My name was only mentioned twice. I'm like "BEETLEJUICE" you have to mention me THREE times for me to show up. LOL!

WRITING SIMPLE is the absolutely HARDEST thing to do. Because we have to be SIMPLE, yet NOT SIMPLISTIC. Finding as DIFFERENT A WAY to say a line or lines is the most important thing to get people to pay attention. A couple of interesting notes:


One of the problems of today's modern writing, particularly new and amateur or up coming writers is the rapid fire nature of everything in our lives. I think a ot of that
is due to the INFORMATION OVERLOAD of our lives. Right now, I am viewing financial news programs on television, have my phone with messages, and looking at this and other threads to make sure I've answered everything I was involved in over the past few days. This is in addition to re-visitng a few of my own songs, and doing some fine tuning on them. So there is a LOT going on.

This is reflected in a lot of our culture. Fast cuts in television commercials, movies, fast paced action in movies, and rapid fire lyrics in rap, rock and even country songs. I think this is because of those reflections in culture and are part of the natural evolution of songwriting. And in many cases I DONT THINK THAT IS A GOOD THING. But now the listeners are involved in it and in many ways, expect it.

Matt, Having taken classes from Pat Pattison, AND WRITTEN A SONG WITH HIM, I can say that sometimes Pat needs to FOLLOW HIS OWN ADVICE. He can be a bit wordy as well. LOL! Very nice guy though and has actually referred some clients to me, so I would and did say the same thing to him. He aggreed. LOL!

Chyanne, I tell you what I see from most all the new comers. Those new younger, middle and older people who are making the trek to Nashville, as well as those I've seen around the country and Canada, and this has been building for at least the past 10-15 years. They come into every writers night, trying to get publisher, ASCAP, BMi appointments, play the songwriters festivals (on the open mics, rarely the real shows) and they suffer from two distinct maladies:


Their songs are long winded, play too many musical changes, (changing guitar or piano chord on just about every beat) have no discernable followable melodies, no eveident hooks, not even really defined choruses, and really don't even make a point. They seem to think "MORE IS MORE" and usually the songs are so immentatly forgettable, you can't remember what they are even talking about WHILE THEY ARE SINGING THEM.

It is sort of reinforced by nearly everyone else doing the SAME THING. It doesn't help when AMERICAN SONGWRITER magazine and other similar publications give their "SONG OF THE MONTH " award, to some....well lets just say, questionable entrants. When is the last time you heard a seven verse, four different chorus and three bridge song on the radio. You know the writer is in trouble when it takes two full pages to get the entire lyric on.

When it really becomes HUGELY evident, is when you see those people over and over and then see A HIT WRITER, get up on the same stage. I just got back from Florida, with the FRANK BROWN SONGWRITERS FESTIVAL, where about 250 writers from all over were there. A lot of amateur writers and quite a few MONSTER HIT WRITERS. These people will play these five and six minute songs (preceeded by a six minute STORY about the writing of the song) and go on and on and on, losing most of the audience and your's truley.
THEN, you see a hit writer get up, lay some monster hit song, or something new they are working on and the difference is NIGHT AND DAY. They are direct, to the point, amazingly singable (you usually can hum or sing the chorus by the second one) tons of VISUAL FURNITURE in the entire song that you can SEE IN YOUR MIND'S EYE, and say more in two verses, choruses and maybe a bridge (and many of them don't even have those) and wrap the entire thing up in 3:00-3:30. It's astounding the differnces between those.

Another BIG THING is SUBJECT MATTER. You are correct that Dianne Warren writes about LOVE. The vast majority of hit songs in history were about that. Most new and amatuer writers write about NO LOVE. Their songs are ANGRY, BITTER, ACCUSITORY, AND GENERALLY SOME OF THE MOST DEPRESSING THINGS YOU HAVE EVER HEARD. Girls sing ACSS, (ANGRY CHICK SINGER SYNDROME,) and guys sing DDSS (DEPRESSED DUDE SINGER SYNDROME) and are more like self therapy sessions. As one person sitting next to me said after hearing a round of four female writers "I didn't pay to attend their therapy sessions"

So that is what the state of far too many newer writers go through. It reflects a lot of what goes on in culture with the angry world we live in. Art reflects culture and the other way around. But I wish they would learn to KEEP IT INTERESTING, AND SHORT! LESS IS MORE. (Yeah, I wrote that one too)


So; yes, you can learn more from the BAD songs, than you can from the GOOD OR GREAT SONGS. And anoth