Originally Posted by Fdemetrio

Mike, I THINK you live in a fantasy world. I don't care if two people are married for 50 years, if one of them posts a song, and the spouse goes in and says, this is weak, the melody is bland, the chord progression wrong, that will still cause a fight. As Martin had hinted, never answer your wife if she asks if she looks fat in her dress.

Is "JPF relationships are a kind of marriage" a good analogy? I don't think so. I think they're apples and oranges. Yes, the intimacy involved in marriage means that sometimes compromise is the best solution to a problem since you are committed to be with that person, up close and personal on a daily basis. There is no such intimacy between folks here..or very little.

Am I living in a fantasy world? It's the same world as you. I am maybe not as cynical as you. Do note, I say I "strive" for honesty in friendships and critiques. Sometimes it is not easy, but I think it IS something to strive for, and if that means I live in a fantasy world, I'm okay with that.

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Random critiques are the best, I don't care what anyone says.

Maybe if you pay an expert for a critique, and you don't know them from Adam. But from a guy who joins JPF and has five posts, and rips into a song? No way. No one knows who that guy is. let him/her establish themselves and prove they are at least not a troll come back in another guise, or someone who just doesn't like the guy/gal they're critiquing.

"I don't care what anyone says" --very telling statement on your part.

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I mean people who have formed alliances, like yourself and Travis have, because you worked on his songs.

You assume to know that I am a "yes man" with Travis because we have formed an "alliance" ..?

There's a lot to chew there. First off, when John shows me a possible lyric for a song demo, I am extremely tough on that lyric. John himself can tell you I have no problem telling him when I think a lyric he has presented me needs work.. Are we still friends? I believe so. Is it hard to take? Nah..I don't think so..we're old guys who have come to trust each other enough to know we're coming from a good place..and that means we've shared some OT talk and feel a bit of a kinship towards one another. And we have fought, too, and that's all part of the process of being friends and becoming better friends.

I do believe there is a strong connection between friendship and trust that can play an important part in how much value we choose to place in a critique.

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
But with alliances comes allegence. And I THINK it shouldn't be viewed as "trolling" when somebody says something is lacking in a song. That is what the whole buddy system creates, a sense of "you're being a troll if you dont say nice things about my work

This is tantamount to saying "JPFers are in competition with one another." And certainly if you believe that then you are probably acting on that and helping to make that a reality. But there are those of us here to whom JPF is LESS about alliances and allegiances and the competitive attitude that comes with that, but more like a place to listen to and critique some songs, talk with folks, get opinions on our stuff, and make friends. Like I said, I think I'm a bit less cynical than you.

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
99% of the songs posted here are of the mediocre variety.

"Random critiques are the best," "99%..mediocre.."

I think we should all be vary wary of anyone that wants to reduce complex things to Twitter-like soundbytes. It's a problem endemic to our times, for sure. Honesty in friendship is a complex thing. Critiquing folks that are somewhere between acquaintances and real friends--is a complex thing. Should we risk it, or stay in this safe place and go on like always..sooner or later--if not dealt with--these kinds of situations can fester into a bigger problem, or the friendship or potential friendship fizzles..or remains static..and then decades can pass in this way, and it all seems kinda sad, you know? Risks not taken.

Friendship is an important part of JPF for me. For several years, this place was my lifeline when I was taking care of my bedridden mother. I can understand how, for others, this aspect may be less important. And so the problem of having and making friends while being honest in critiques and other things has been something I've thought about a lot, over the years.

You talk about strangers. You are still a kind of stranger. What do we know about you? Not much..no name, no face, very little personal history..What we do know about you is that you would not remain banned and came back more than a dozen times under various guises, no doubt raising the blood pressure of a man who would have at least one rather serious stroke. You might be a total saint, now, and everything you say might be coming from an honest place, but very few who saw all this go down can trust a person who STILL chooses to remain faceless and nameless in the wake of all that. Maybe if we actually knew more about who you are, it could help balance things out. I don't know.

Yes, I get it: you really, really need this place. Something that you probably won't even admit. But you DO need it, and that's fine. Who am I to deprive you of something you need. But I and many others who remember back a few years will always have a hard time taking ANYTHING you have to say with anything other than a extremely big grain of salt. Others like Robert Gustafson just leave, and I can totally get that..


Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 03/31/19 03:56 AM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)