Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
There was a conversation in another thread about how "friendships hurt honest critiquing" and I think this is nonsense.

Anybody who has real honest to goodness friends (and most of us do) know that to get to that plateau some form of honesty and candor was reached. I have friends here, and when they say something negative about a song, I take it far more seriously than from someone I have had little contact with or someone who is wrapped up in a cocoon of anonymity, which to me kills any potential trust, the key factor in friendship..

Certainly a non-friend can give an honest critique, but they are also far more likely to be motivated by something other than how they really feel about the song. If you get a negative comment from a known troll, how can you ever trust that it's coming from an honest place, especially if that dissent stands alone from what others say? And even then, they could simply be jumping on a bandwagon without any real consideration of the song.

I strive for friendship with my JPF compats and one of the main reasons is that I want to be able to take in everything they say with complete trust. Being here is like being in a cross between a think tank and a party, but we're all blindfolded and so what we say takes on much more significance than if we saw body language and facial expressions. It takes work to communicate well here (and in social media in general) cuz it is more demanding than when we have sight.

Deej, Maybe I missed a post you deleted, but I agree with what I did read. When I listen to songs, I hear good and bad, for sure..I may be more prone to mention good to a newbie for the very reasons you mention. Does that make my comments BS? Of course not, and it only would to someone lacking in basic communication skills. Maybe the offspring of The Great Santini or some other archetypal "tough love" dad might be acted out or channeled through when they give tough love reviews, here. The thing that kills me is..they no doubt hear the good in the song they are saying only negative things about..yet something prevents them from balancing their review so that the receiver can actually not come away feeling like crap. It makes you wonder if the intent was to make the receiver feel like crap, especially if it is a review coming from a non-friend. Or if they are lacking in empathy? Perhaps slouching towards sociapathology?

I think the definition of "friend" has changed a lot with the coming of social media. I have maybe a few hundred Facebook friends, I don't know cuz I barely use the site. I'd say maybe 30-40 of those people I really would trust enough to call real friends. That doesn't mean I wouldn't trust a negative comment by one of the other 90%, only I would more likely reach for a consensus then, needing a stricter standard for believing that comment. And when I see that the comment is framed as an opinion, I am far more likely to mull it over. When someone cannot take the time to add "I think" or "I believe" or "I feel" or IMO..anywhere in their critique or comments, I feel this terror rise up in my gut, cuz it's like the voice of God is talking to me! They have access to truth and so I better believe what they say..and then I become aware of these sensations some ten seconds later and put them in check..but the damage was done, and I will find it hard to trust those comments. God is probably the only truly omniscient voice, and so if you choose to remind me you are just little you with your comment, I am FAR more likely to listen and take it seriously. People who pose as God when they review are probably archetypal Oz figures, feeling like fakes inside and putting on masks..jmo..LOL....

Yes, I believe in the opposite of those comments in that thread that said, "friendship kills honest critiquing." I believe in striving for friendship so as to be able to trust the comments from that person. I think anyone who would honestly think that way might truly consider re-assing those faux friendships that lack honesty. Honesty just comes with the territory of real friendship, I believe.

If you are in a friendship, on JPF or otherwise, and feel shy about being honest with your friend cuz you think they're gonna be defensive of something, than maybe look at that..it might still be a friendship, but perhaps lacking 3 dimensions..?

And in order for friendships to grow and not stagnate..when you come to that crossroads. of......should I say what I feel cuz it might hurt..or should I not..what would you imagine the choice leading to potential growth would be? And be creative and gentle in the process..and watch your friendship grow.

It is far easier to have friends here if you have a name and a face, and much easier to understand friendships if you have them. here or otherwise..and I feel awful for those that are lonely in that sense, cuz all the breezy talk they can muster here is just lost on most folks, since the potential for friendship is not there, and as a result, that trust can never be there either...

Mike


Mike, I THINK you live in a fantasy world. I dont care if two people are married for 50 years, if one of them posts a song, and the spouse goes in and says, this is weak, the melody is bland, the chord progression wrong, that will still cause a fight. As Martin had hinted, never answer your wife if she asks if she looks fat in her dress.

Random critiques are the best, I dont care what anyone says. When I say friendships, I dont mean people who hang out and go to the bar together, I mean people who have formed alliances, like yourself and Travis have, because you worked on his songs. But with alliances comes allegence. And I THINK it shouldn't be viewed as "trolling" when somebody says something is lacking in a song. That is what the whole buddy system creates, a sense of "you're being a troll if you dont say nice things about my work"

And, how do you tell somebody their work is weak, when you talk to them on a daily basis?

Perhaps a private screening room where only people who want in go in and be honest... is something to think about.

Nobody likes getting critiqued. Its very personal, and I have gotten pissed of at some folks for critiquing me in the past. But whether I like it or not, it's still good. In two ways, it could enlighten me, or it could strengthen my own belief in my music, realizing that the person commenting may not know much. Even the greatest songs of all time are not liked by many people. and thought of as crap by others. Why nothing here is considered the same, I can only surmise its because people dont want to ruffle feathers here...never chit where you sleep as Dad used to say. But is it fruitful?

If the songs were great, written great, performed great, sung great, you wouldnt get that kind of response no matter what you said to anybody.

99% of the songs posted here are of the mediocre variety. There is stuff that is better than others HERE, but not good in reality. Nobody is going to rush out to buy the albums. Did anybody buy the albums of artists here? Was it cause they are too cheap to buy it, or because you feel like, "why should I buy theres, somebody should by mine" or that nobody buys any music at all, but the bottom line is it's not great music.

I bought several tracks from people on this site, not because I thought it was the greatest piece of music I ever heard, or even something I would listen to, but because I was supporting them. I bought many singles from people who didnt even like me, and didnt even thank me. Most of the time they didnt even know i bought it

The ONLY other time I bought music of of cdbaby, which was something for myself to listen to, Was a guy by the name of Willie NIle. I had never heard of him before but stumbled on him by accident, through the "sounds like" category. I was absolutely floored. I couldn't believe he wasn't a big star, although he was bigger than I had thought.

But i bought that right off cd baby thinking it was some indie, it wasnt really. But thats how good something needs to be for somebody to open their wallet to buy your product.

Coming up with a decent tune, a decent lyric, and a decent recording, is so commonplace, I could get my niece to write a song, and she is only a journalism major, she dont write songs, but I could get her to write a song, have you record it, and people here would still say it was great.

I believe in the whole "music is just an expression of yourself" that is very true. I dont believe music is a competition and everybody has a unique view just as they all have unique faces and unique fingerprints.

But isnt there a need to see if the stuff your making is good?

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 03/30/19 04:14 PM.