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#765914 - 11/01/09 01:14 AM
Flag protection
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goodfolks
Serious Contributor
Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 499
Loc: california USA
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Flag protection
Should congress pass a amendment to the constitution to protect the American flag from being desecrated. They tried in 06 and it failed. 66 in favor 34 against they need two thirds majority to pass a amendment to the constitution. I believe part of the reason for the amendment was because of a Supreme Court decision 20 years ago. I posted a song lyrics I started working on when I heard the news That sums up how I feel on the lyric 3 board called American Flag. Heres a link with some information.
http://www.opencongress.org/wiki/Flag_burning_amendment
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#765921 - 11/01/09 01:51 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: goodfolks]
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cozmicslop
Serious Contributor
Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 555
Loc: San Antonio, TX USA
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Flag protection
Should congress pass a amendment to the constitution to protect the American flag from being desecrated.
No.
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#765922 - 11/01/09 01:58 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: cozmicslop]
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cozmicslop
Serious Contributor
Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 555
Loc: San Antonio, TX USA
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Protect first, humans and other earthlings (assorted animals and plants).
Then..... protect linen, cloths and other embroided/woven materials.
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#765955 - 11/01/09 08:23 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: cozmicslop]
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Ray E. Strode
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 05/22/01
Posts: 4540
Loc: Brunswick, Ga. USA
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Well,
Flag Burning, Not the best way to make a Statement, is supposedly protected as a form of free speech. So if it gets passed it would probably be struck down in the Supreme Court.
So the best way to show respect for the flag, is be as good a citizen as you can. Most people already do that and don't give much attention to a flag burning incident. We, as a Nation settled most issues a long time ago and a person can always write the Newspaper or their representive if they have an issue.
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Ray E. Strode
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#765957 - 11/01/09 08:28 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Ray E. Strode]
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Bill Robinson
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6190
Loc: Curmudgeonville, Tn
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No amendment needed I think.
The best way to deal with folks that desecrate the American Flag is to ignore them pretty much the same way you ignore any other scumbag.
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#765964 - 11/01/09 08:54 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Bill Robinson]
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John W. Selleck
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 3463
Loc: NJ
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You don't see much flag burning in the southern states. I wonder if that is because a lot of those states let you tote guns. Of course I probably wouldn't shoot 'em, just kick their arse. If I got sued I could claim either self defense or temporary insanity.
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#765966 - 11/01/09 09:13 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John W. Selleck]
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NaomiSue
Serious Contributor
Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 601
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I'd shoot em. . . not to kill, but I'd take a toe or finger off.
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#765967 - 11/01/09 09:18 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: NaomiSue]
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Doug Heard
Serious Contributor
Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 497
Loc: On the Road USA
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No.
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#765983 - 11/01/09 10:22 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Doug Heard]
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Kevin Emmrich
Top 20 Poster
Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 8632
Loc: Crozet, VA
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I don't see how flag burning falls under free speech or the press. To me it is an inciteful act of a violent mob. While the supreme court may have protected it in the past, supreme courts change and flag burning could be against the law in the future.
Kevin
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#766001 - 11/01/09 11:10 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Kevin Emmrich]
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John Lawrence Schick
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 4178
Loc: PA
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Personally, I’d like to see a day come when there would be an end to all flags. Where Earthlings would live a peaceful, yet diversified existence on this beautiful blue planet.
Sorry to broaden the scope of this thread. I was having a moment.
Peace, John 
_________________________
Stop analyzing; just compose the damn thing!
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#766003 - 11/01/09 11:16 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John Lawrence Schick]
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Ray E. Strode
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 05/22/01
Posts: 4540
Loc: Brunswick, Ga. USA
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Are you kidding John,
You want me to dump my family Crest? Do you really John? Waahhah!
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Ray E. Strode
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#766007 - 11/01/09 11:37 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Ray E. Strode]
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John Lawrence Schick
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 4178
Loc: PA
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Of course not Ray. I'm not heartless. Your family Crest collectables would be part of the peaceful diversified existence on this beautiful blue planet.
_________________________
Stop analyzing; just compose the damn thing!
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#766036 - 11/01/09 12:59 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John Lawrence Schick]
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Gary Gray X
Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 2461
Loc: TEXAS
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sometimes peace can only be instigated or obtained through violent measures, when peace is within the soul that's the greatest feeling in my opinion
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#766050 - 11/01/09 01:36 PM
Re: Flag protection *DELETED*
[Re: Gary Gray X]
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The Circle Is Small
Serious Contributor
Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 47
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Post deleted by The Circle Is Small
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#766062 - 11/01/09 03:00 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: The Circle Is Small]
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Bill Robinson
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6190
Loc: Curmudgeonville, Tn
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HA
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#766068 - 11/01/09 03:29 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Bill Robinson]
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Gary Gray X
Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 2461
Loc: TEXAS
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yepp! Scottish proud
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#766071 - 11/01/09 03:59 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Gary Gray X]
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Bob Cushing
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 4109
Loc: cincinnati oh usa
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The flag burners are free to express themselves as they wish.
Then I reserve the right to stomp a mud-hole in them if they do it in my presence. If I get arrested, I'll take my plight to the local conservative radio talk show hosts,who will elevate me to local folk hero/martyr, and you won't find a jury in Hamliton county that will convict me. Problem solved.
Edited by Bob Cushing (11/01/09 07:50 PM)
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bc
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#766088 - 11/01/09 05:00 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John Lawrence Schick]
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Ray E. Strode
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 05/22/01
Posts: 4540
Loc: Brunswick, Ga. USA
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All Right! I give up. you guys are coming up with all those Crests! I think my ancesters had more than one but who's counting! I love my country being as my recent ancesters on both sides were here before the Revolution, so there!
And this is the greatest place on earth to be so I don't understand people that burn the Flag. Geez is it closer to the Holidays already. Man buying Christmas Presents is always SO difficult. WRITE A HIT!
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Ray E. Strode
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#766089 - 11/01/09 05:12 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Ray E. Strode]
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John W. Selleck
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 3463
Loc: NJ
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Hey Bob,
If they put me on that jury we would convict... The flag burner for assault!!!
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#766110 - 11/01/09 06:49 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John W. Selleck]
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Duncan Wells
Serious Contributor
Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 509
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The notion is ridiculous. Burning the flag is an act which falls under our freedom of expression. Whether your're burning a flag, hanging or burning a person in effigy or carrying a sign that refers to your own president as being a terrorist. Whatta ya do?? Arrest everyone and anyone who gives you the finger? You may be insulted by the symbolic act but that's all it is; a symbolic act. It causes no personal injury. However, if you beat somebody with a baseball bat, or chop off one of their fingers for insulting you (or your flag), THEN you have a problem. A BIG problem. JMO
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#766121 - 11/01/09 07:48 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Duncan Wells]
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Bob Cushing
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 4109
Loc: cincinnati oh usa
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Not if they don't catch you! {LOL}
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bc
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#766125 - 11/01/09 07:55 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Bob Cushing]
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Duncan Wells
Serious Contributor
Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 509
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Not if they don't catch you! {LOL}
LOL...I stand corrected.
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#766131 - 11/01/09 08:03 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: goodfolks]
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goodfolks
Serious Contributor
Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 499
Loc: california USA
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For me the reason to protect the flag is simply out of respect for all the men and women who shed their blood to protect the values it stands for.
Purity innocence hardiness valor vigilance perseverance and justice.
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#766176 - 11/01/09 10:59 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: NaomiSue]
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John W. Selleck
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 3463
Loc: NJ
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I'm still a firm believer in "Love it or leave it". That doesn't mean you have to agree with the government, but burning the flag is showing your disrespect for everything this country stands for. Anyone that can't see that...
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#766249 - 11/02/09 09:04 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: goodfolks]
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Doug Heard
Serious Contributor
Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 497
Loc: On the Road USA
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For me the reason to protect the flag is simply out of respect for all the men and women who shed their blood to protect the values it stands for.
Purity innocence hardiness valor vigilance perseverance and justice.
Well I'm one of those who have shed blood where the idiots can burn the flag. And I consider making laws against flag burning the same thing as attacking the freedom I bled for.
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#766258 - 11/02/09 09:20 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Doug Heard]
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John Lawrence Schick
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 4178
Loc: PA
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All kidding aside…
America is the land of diversity. That’s what made America great - freedom of thought, freedom of ideas, freedom of speech, and not having fear to express those thoughts and ideas. And, yes, having men and women with courage to fight for those principles.
I think the true test for a person believing in those principles is his/her tolerance in an opinion/expression that goes against everything he/she believes in. If that person with contrary views of yours loses his/her freedom of speech/expression, your freedom of speech/expression could be next on the agenda to go.
John
_________________________
Stop analyzing; just compose the damn thing!
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#766305 - 11/02/09 11:13 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John Lawrence Schick]
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Doug Heard
Serious Contributor
Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 497
Loc: On the Road USA
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I don't know a single person who has bled who supports a flag burn ban.
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#766307 - 11/02/09 11:20 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John Lawrence Schick]
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John Lawrence Schick
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 4178
Loc: PA
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BTW, so I'm not misunderstood. Threatening physical harm to another, crosses the line of "freedom of speech". And worse yet, perpetrating physical harm to another, crosses the line of “freedom of expression”.
John
_________________________
Stop analyzing; just compose the damn thing!
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#766311 - 11/02/09 11:29 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Doug Heard]
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John Lawrence Schick
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 4178
Loc: PA
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I don't know a single person who has bled who supports a flag burn ban.
And I'm not a bit surprised Doug. It would be a contradiction in the nature of such men and women.
John
_________________________
Stop analyzing; just compose the damn thing!
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#766320 - 11/02/09 11:58 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John Lawrence Schick]
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John W. Selleck
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 3463
Loc: NJ
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Now you have met one...
At least on the net.
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#766325 - 11/02/09 12:25 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John W. Selleck]
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John Lawrence Schick
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 4178
Loc: PA
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See what I mean about the "Land of Diversity". Isn't America great! 
_________________________
Stop analyzing; just compose the damn thing!
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#766334 - 11/02/09 12:57 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John Lawrence Schick]
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John W. Selleck
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 3463
Loc: NJ
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I would be amazed to find there were many that served overseas who would put up with anyone who burned the flag.
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#766335 - 11/02/09 01:07 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: goodfolks]
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Joy Boy
Serious Contributor
Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 695
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China, Iran, N. Korea, Cuba and Nazi Germany -- all countries where it is/was illegal to "desecrate" the flag.
I imagine if you tried to exercise freedom of expression in any of those places, you'd be assaulted, stomped into a mud puddle and have your toe shot off. And not a jury would convict anyone of anything because of it. Heck, they might pass out a few Iron Crosses.
Desecrating what a symbol stands for in order to save the symbol. Lordy.
The other side of freedom of expression is that no one is required to listen to you. Let the idiots burn a flag. The republic will survive.
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#766378 - 11/02/09 03:43 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: ]
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goodfolks
Serious Contributor
Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 499
Loc: california USA
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I read a poll 80 plus percent of the american people support the amendment. I see it more as a act of terrorism, Then expression of free speech.
Edited by ordinaryguy (11/02/09 03:44 PM)
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#766379 - 11/02/09 03:54 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John W. Selleck]
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Doug Heard
Serious Contributor
Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 497
Loc: On the Road USA
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Now you have met one...
At least on the net.
Where, John. Monkey Mountain MACS-9 off and on 68 69 70 71 TDY a total of 18 mo. As far as I've heard I'm the longest time in country TDY of anybody I've met. USMC 67-71
Edited by Doug Heard (11/02/09 03:59 PM)
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#766382 - 11/02/09 04:10 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: goodfolks]
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John Lawrence Schick
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 4178
Loc: PA
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I read a poll 80 plus percent of the american people support the amendment. I see it more as a act of terrorism, Then expression of free speech.
Very deceiving. An unidentified poll, unidentified sample rate, unidentified source, etc, etc. So maybe out of 100 random/ or select subjects, 80% did support the amendment. Hardly 80% of the American people. Special interest groups are notorious for slanting polls in their favor to be used as propaganda. They’re meaningless.
"Act of Terrorism"
Terrorism; the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion. Terror: a state of intense fear, violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands
John
_________________________
Stop analyzing; just compose the damn thing!
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#766411 - 11/02/09 06:32 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John Lawrence Schick]
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Bob Cushing
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 4109
Loc: cincinnati oh usa
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Jail bait? lol You know I'm assuming you've been jailed for no reason (sorry for that) but look at the bright side. Play it up and roll with the bad boy image. - Naomi No, I assure you Naomi, my reference to "locked up" was pertaining to my avatar only. I'm a law abiding citizen. I obey even the stupid laws. Though this could give my music biz PR a little edgy buzz. Funny though, the subject of ridiculous laws and jail time have been on my mind lately. John
Edited by Bob Cushing (11/02/09 06:34 PM)
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bc
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#766428 - 11/02/09 07:10 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Bob Cushing]
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John Lawrence Schick
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 4178
Loc: PA
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Jail bait? lol You know I'm assuming you've been jailed for no reason (sorry for that) but look at the bright side. Play it up and roll with the bad boy image. - Naomi No, I assure you Naomi, my reference to "locked up" was pertaining to my avatar only. I'm a law abiding citizen. I obey even the stupid laws. Though this could give my music biz PR a little edgy buzz. Funny though, the subject of ridiculous laws and jail time have been on my mind lately. John You look like a guy I was in the drunk tank with back in 94'!
Dang it! There's always that one person that remembers you. I'm dried out now. I haven't had a drink since yesterday.
_________________________
Stop analyzing; just compose the damn thing!
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#766446 - 11/02/09 07:55 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John Lawrence Schick]
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NaomiSue
Serious Contributor
Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 601
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OMG! I outed you all! Criminals! 
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#766472 - 11/02/09 09:12 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Doug Heard]
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Bill Robinson
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6190
Loc: Curmudgeonville, Tn
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I don't know a single person who has bled who supports a flag burn ban.
Doug
My Dad, rest in Peace, served in WW2 and Korea. He earned two purple hearts. Rest assured, he was against anyone desecrating the American Flag. He held it in the highest respect.
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#766481 - 11/02/09 09:47 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Bill Robinson]
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John W. Selleck
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 3463
Loc: NJ
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Red Beach, China Beach, Hill 327; all around Da Nang in '68 before a rotten rung in a ladder in the top rung of a security tower left me with two broken vertabrae, five crushed discs and a few other goodies to remember it by. USMC. Hated the war, still love my country. Despise people who burn its flag. If they want to opt out, the door is always open.
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#766603 - 11/03/09 10:17 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John W. Selleck]
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Doug Heard
Serious Contributor
Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 497
Loc: On the Road USA
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Just cause I don't think there should be a law doesn't mean that I support flag burning. I might even take a poke at them. But I can't see that flag burning isn't political speech. I find it a lot less objectable than Congress voting to send troops to an undeclared war, no those people are criminals.
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#766615 - 11/03/09 11:02 AM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Doug Heard]
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John Lawrence Schick
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 4178
Loc: PA
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This is what often happens in the political arena, the “mixing of apples with oranges” modus operandi. I’m sure desecrating the American Flag is appalling to most Americans. It is to me.
But the issue at hand isn’t whether the majority considers it wrong or appalling; it is whether or not to have Congress pass an amendment to the Constitution to protect the American Flag.
Also keep in mind the wording in the amendment “desecrating”, which broadly means disrespecting. It could be interpreted and applied as unlawful to not salute an American flag, unlawful to wear an American flag on clothing, or many other uses could be tagged as disrespectful.
Whether we like it or not, desecrating the American Flag is a form of protest, misguided as it is, it’s often provoked by our government’s aggressive actions into controversial situations on foreign soils.
This is a dangerous Pandora’s Box to open. Freedom is taken away in increments, often disguised as noble and dignified justifications.
Pandora Box Scenario 2011; the manner in which Talk Radio desecrates the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces has been deemed anti-American? An amendment to the Constitution has been passed titled: “Talk Radio Desecration Act”. No longer will Talk Radio be allowed to lawfully use any disrespectful opinions, remarks, or comments solely directed at the Commander-in-Chief.
_________________________
Stop analyzing; just compose the damn thing!
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#766633 - 11/03/09 12:14 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John Lawrence Schick]
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Bill Robinson
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6190
Loc: Curmudgeonville, Tn
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Pandora Box Scenario 2011; the manner in which Talk Radio desecrates the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces has been deemed anti-American? An amendment to the Constitution has been passed titled: “Talk Radio Desecration Act”. No longer will Talk Radio be allowed to lawfully use any disrespectful opinions, remarks, or comments solely directed at the Commander-in-Chief.
Think it can't happen?
See the Sedition Act of 1798
or
The Espionage Act of 1917 and its amendment, the Sedition Act of 1918, led to several Supreme Court decisions that shaped the interpretation of the First Amendment (Stone 174). While First Amendment interpretations were first questioned as early as the Sedition Act of 1798, it wasn’t until World War I that America faced serious controversy regarding the First Amendment.
There was another one but I can't remember it.
Edited by Bill Robinson (11/03/09 12:21 PM)
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#766634 - 11/03/09 12:18 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: Bill Robinson]
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John Lawrence Schick
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 4178
Loc: PA
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Yes, but it needs to be updated and unleashed on Talk Radio. (Edit: sarcasm intended)
Good point Bill.
Edited by John Lawrence Schick (11/03/09 12:35 PM)
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Stop analyzing; just compose the damn thing!
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#766639 - 11/03/09 12:23 PM
Re: Flag protection
[Re: John Lawrence Schick]
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Bill Robinson
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6190
Loc: Curmudgeonville, Tn
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I think there was another one and it still stands I just can't remember it. It was an act of treason if done during war time. It had to do with leaflets I believe.
I think the last time someone was prosecuted under it was WW2
Darn CRS.
I'm gettin' old.
Edited by Bill Robinson (11/03/09 12:24 PM)
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