Just Plain Folks Music Organization Message Boards: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police"

#714446 - 04/25/09 09:45 PM Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police"
Brian Austin Whitney Brian Austin Whitney Bard of the Boards Registered: 04/20/01 Posts: 16289 Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA	Hi Folks, This week's pick by Harriet Schock for the Mentor Critique is Donna Devines's "The Memory Police." She will be posting her critique on Thursday night, so starting now we'd like to get all of your critiques on this. Remember, lyrics/mp3's are not chosen on what is best or worst, but rather what will make for an interesting educational discussion of what was done well, what can be improved and basic building blocks for writing strong lyrics and songs. Please jump in and then once Harriet posts, see if you noticed the same points. Thanks again to Harriet and everyone who has already participated. If you didn't get chosen (or didn't enter) and would still like a Professional Critique by Harriet Schock, or take a class in person or one of her on-line courses, please check her website at http://www.harrietschock.com. For now, let's hear your thoughts on Donna's entry! Remember that Donna should not post a response until AFTER Harriet posts her critique. ------------------- The Memory Police (v1) A third-floor room In a second-rate house Now it's his home And it's never been worse He's hunched at the table On the edge of his chair Staring at a paintbrush His hands in his hair Chorus Ten years divorced Still rigid with the shock He clutches Johnny Walker to his chest Maybe he hopes the bottle will block The memory police from making an arrest (v2) Creating beauty For a modest fee He's a freelance artist With an alcohol need Enough just to get him Through a dark winter night When the past creeps in And turns on the light Bridge He goes downstairs to sit by the phone Drinks from the bottle when he thinks he’s alone Sometimes he sings ...But the phone never rings (v3) The bottle or the breakup Not clear what came first Once he hungered for love Now he lives for his thirst The laughter of a child And the touch of a wife Are remnants of a dream At the edge of his life Chorus Ten years divorced Still rigid with the shock He clutches Johnny Walker to his chest Maybe he’s hoping the bottle will block The memory police from making an arrest © D.Devine 2008 _________________________ Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#714471 - 04/25/09 10:56 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
Frank N Furter Frank N Furter Serious Contributor Registered: 04/14/07 Posts: 185 Loc: USA	Hi Donna, Very nice lyric...well, sad, but well written. And I think the hook is great and very appropriate for the times we are now in. One thing that odes jump out right away is the fact that this lonely soul is living in such a huge place. I almost think you were working on "clever" with the opening 2 lines ("third floor-second rate"), without pondering whether it seems feasible that he'd be living there alone. Touching depiction of a sad man using the worst possible escape mechanism. fnf Edited by Frank N Furter (04/28/09 03:50 PM)
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#714472 - 04/25/09 10:59 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
Douglas Murphy Douglas Murphy Top 100 Poster Registered: 01/11/09 Posts: 4758 Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada	The Memory Police (v1) A third-floor room In a second-rate house Now it's his home And it's never been worse He's hunched at the table On the edge of his chair Staring at a paintbrush His hands in his hair Rhyming pattern, or lack of one, makes it hard to follow/read and does not generate a flow that the reader can ‘sing’ to. I can see the ‘character’ and see his situation but I cannot share in it because there is not a consistent pattern. (room/house/home // worse/table/chair // brush/hair…) Chorus Ten years divorced Still rigid with the shock He clutches Johnny Walker to his chest Maybe he hopes the bottle will block The memory police from making an arrest The chorus fails to create the focal point, to crystallize the whole point of the characters dilemma. Reads more like a shorter verse IMO. “The Memory Police” Interesting hook but not very powerful and not much of a hook that would describe the characters’ woes. (v2) Creating beauty For a modest fee He's a freelance artist With an alcohol need Enough just to get him Through a dark winter night When the past creeps in And turns on the light Strongest part of the song so far. Check out the pattern you have set up. Flows off the tongue making it easier to sing. Also the picture you create of your character brings him to life IMO. This is great! Bridge He goes downstairs to sit by the phone Drinks from the bottle when he thinks he’s alone Sometimes he sings ...But the phone never rings Interesting. You feel a little more for the character, and that is always good if you can get the reader/listener/ singer to ‘feel’ the pain as it were. (v3) The bottle or the breakup Not clear what came first Once he hungered for love Now he lives for his thirst The laughter of a child And the touch of a wife Are remnants of a dream At the edge of his life (Chorus) This also works so well. The pattern is continued and so is more of the character’s story. Very strong. All in all right now there are ‘gaps’ that hurt the overall feel of the lyric. IMO if you build on the stronger points, and develop the chorus so that it ties everything in, you are going to have something here. © D.Devine 2008 Edited by Doug Dude (04/25/09 11:01 PM) _________________________ "Is this a practice? They are all practices." John Denver http://www.soundclick.com/dougmurphy Skype Contact: douglas.murphy8
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#714502 - 04/26/09 03:36 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Douglas Murphy]
John Hoffman John Hoffman Top 100 Poster Registered: 02/02/06 Posts: 2922 Loc: St. Peters, Mo.	Donna, he main thing here for me is the hook. Who or what are/is the memory police? A drunk's relationship fell apart okay. Who is policing who's memory? I mean it's a sad story and all but what do the memory police have to do with anything? Are the memory police even tangible? Somehow I think something as ethereal as memory police requires a great deal of poetry or a story to make THEM tabgible rather than just a picture of a drunken artist. What memories are we talking about? What does being arrested signify? Sorry to be so harsh but I don't find this very cohesive. John _________________________ Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword never had an editor.
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#714551 - 04/26/09 08:58 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: John Hoffman]
Jody K Smith Jody K Smith Serious Contributor Registered: 01/19/06 Posts: 510 Loc: Magnolia, TX	Hi Donna, I struggle with what to say here. You are clearly are very good writer. I can see it in the structure of the lyric and the pictures you paint in the verses. I am having a little trouble with the chorus. The chorus holds vital info about the story (he's divorced and drinks to drown the pain), but I don't think your hook is getting tied in there enough. After 2 reads I had to scroll back to remember how you used "memory police" in the chorus. I think you need to really hit us harder with your title . . . maybe that would be in the way it is set up or . . . I don't know. The example that keeps popping in my mind is "The Dream Police" because after all these years (well, I'm not THAT old but I haven't heard that song in forever) I can still sing the chorus: "The dream police, they live inside of my head. The dream police, they come to me in my bed. The dream police, they're coming to arrest me, oh no." Now, I'm certainly not saying this is how you need to do it . . . heck, no (really not fabulous lyrics, but gets us to remember it for sure) . . . just trying to explain what I mean by your hook feeling a little "detached" from the rest of the lyric. Also (this is me being picky now . . . had I just "listened" I probably wouldn't think so hard) A third-floor room In a second-rate house Now it's his home Hmmm . . . where is he living? It sounds like he's been institutionalized or in a half way house or something. But I think, certainly not if it was just a divorce . . . but if that's not the case it wouldn't matter where he was living unless you are just trying to say he's dirt poor . . . I dunno (see, now I've just confused myself Donna . . truly I don't have a major problem with those lines) Very Nice Here: The bottle or the breakup Not clear what came first Once he hungered for love Now he lives for his thirst Anyway, to sum it up . . . I guess I'm sorta agreeing with the previous posters here concerning the use of the hook. Congrats for being selected and I'll await Harriet's review. You are a talented writer nonetheless. $\:D$ _________________________ J.K. Smith
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#714554 - 04/26/09 09:34 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Jody K Smith]
Heather N. Orwig Heather N. Orwig Serious Contributor Registered: 03/16/09 Posts: 288 Loc: Pennsylvania	Hi Donna, I think my biggest issue with this is that I don't feel that the chorus is strong enough. I, personally, want you to use that chorus to tell me more about the memory police and how they're affecting his life. I feel that as it stands now, the information that is in the chorus is information that could be used in the verses to help lead up to a more powerful chorus. Also, I almost feel like you talk more about the fact that he's a painter than you do about your hook. I read through this a few times and that's mainly what I take away from it.... he's a sad painter who drinks to drown the pain but I don't know what is causing the pain, etc.... I see some of the details there but I think they come a little too late in the song. There seems to be a bit of a conflict also - you talk somewhat about him missing his wife and child and it driving him to drink, but then in the last verse you say... The bottle or the breakup Not clear what came first Once he hungered for love Now he lives for his thirst So I want to think that he drinks because of the bad memories (which goes with your hook, I think) but this verse leads to wonder if the drinking caused the breakup and the bad memories... In my opinion, I need this to be more clear. I also see conflict between verse 3 and the bridge.... He goes downstairs to sit by the phone Drinks from the bottle when he thinks he’s alone Sometimes he sings ...But the phone never rings Here it seems that he's waiting for someone to call, he is hungering for company or conversation or something... but in verse 3 you imply that he no longer cares about love, he lives to drink. All in all, I'm just not getting a clear message from the song - even though I feel that you had some great lines here - the first two lines of verse 1 are very clever. The hook itself is a good one also, in my opinion. I think you could make this a stronger song by rearranging some of your lines, adding some detail, and taking the song in one direction. Just my opinion. Heather _________________________ "Only those who dare to fail miserably can achieve greatly." - Robert Kennedy "Be nice to people on your way up because you meet them on your way down." - Jimmy Durante
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#714556 - 04/26/09 09:57 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Jody K Smith]
Kevin Emmrich Kevin Emmrich Top 20 Poster Registered: 02/24/07 Posts: 8632 Loc: Crozet, VA	I think the "memory police" making an arrest is a great idea! So I think we have to look at the verses to see if they point to this great hook. If we read through we really have a competing main theme -- the "bottle". I think to maximize the hook, we will have to reduce the focus on the alcohol. When I read through it the first time, I locked into the two line rhythmic pattern Quote: A third-floor room In a second-rate house Now it's his home And it's never been worse He's hunched at the table On the edge of his chair So I didn't notice the lack of rhyming, as pointed out by Doug. Here's just a couple potential thoughts that stay on the "memory" train and also address the meter and rhyming (maybe, I don't often pay too close attention to that stuff myself). A third-floor room In a second-rate house No memories on the wall he sleeps on the couch freelance artist Creates beauty for a fee but his past is a shadow escape is his need Chorus Ten years divorced Still rigid with the shock He clutches Johnny Walker to his chest Maybe he hopes the bottle will block The memory police from making an arrest I could keep going, but it's too much work (ha, ha). I'll come back later if I get the chance. Good luck with this one. Kevin _________________________ *"Make Every Line Count"* Kevin at Soundclick and ... more Soundclick skype: Kevin.Emmrich
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#714557 - 04/26/09 10:05 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
the songcabinet the songcabinet Top 100 Poster Registered: 12/01/08 Posts: 3390 Loc: Denmark	Originally Posted By: Brian Austin Whitney Hi Folks, This week's pick by Harriet Schock for the Mentor Critique is Donna Devines's "The Memory Police." She will be posting her critique on Thursday night, so starting now we'd like to get all of your critiques on this. Remember, lyrics/mp3's are not chosen on what is best or worst, but rather what will make for an interesting educational discussion of what was done well, what can be improved and basic building blocks for writing strong lyrics and songs. Please jump in and then once Harriet posts, see if you noticed the same points. Thanks again to Harriet and everyone who has already participated. If you didn't get chosen (or didn't enter) and would still like a Professional Critique by Harriet Schock, or take a class in person or one of her on-line courses, please check her website at http://www.harrietschock.com. For now, let's hear your thoughts on Donna's entry! Remember that Donna should not post a response until AFTER Harriet posts her critique. ------------------- The Memory Police (v1) A third-floor room In a second-rate house Now it's his home And it's never been worse He's hunched at the table On the edge of his chair Staring at a paintbrush His hands in his hair Chorus Ten years divorced Still rigid with the shock He clutches Johnny Walker to his chest Maybe he hopes the bottle will block The memory police from making an arrest (v2) Creating beauty For a modest fee He's a freelance artist With an alcohol need Enough just to get him Through a dark winter night When the past creeps in And turns on the light Bridge He goes downstairs to sit by the phone Drinks from the bottle when he thinks he’s alone Sometimes he sings ...But the phone never rings (v3) The bottle or the breakup Not clear what came first Once he hungered for love Now he lives for his thirst The laughter of a child And the touch of a wife Are remnants of a dream At the edge of his life Chorus Ten years divorced Still rigid with the shock He clutches Johnny Walker to his chest Maybe he’s hoping the bottle will block The memory police from making an arrest © D.Devine 2008 Hi Donna, Gongrats on the opportunity to dig in deep on this wonderfully written lyric! The title really drew me in to this, "Memory police" there's no such thing, but what do you mean. I just had to read it! First thing I noticed while reading was the small hooks you have in there. I think the opening couplet in verse one "A third floor room in a second-rate house" is brilliant! And your take on 'the egg or the hen' in the opening of verse three "the bottle or the breakup" equally superb! The hook is great too, and your establishment of who, where, what, why and when in the lyric - it's all there! What I stumble on while reading is first in the chorus. Allthough the last four lines are a bit lengtier than the first two, the similarity of the length of the first two lines and the rhyme scheme in the chorus and the verses, makes me a little uneasy when it comes to making music to this. At least these are things the musicator should be aware of, so the chorus section can be made to stand out. Secondly I thought of your lines in the chorus: He clutches Johnny Walker to his chest Maybe he hopes the bottle will block What will happen if you interchanged the bottle and Johnny Walker in these two lines, to create a little surprise?: He clutches the bottle to his chest Maybe he hopes Johnny Walker will (help to) block Well, I don't know? Just a thought. Finally for the chorus I found the lead hook about memory police came a little sudden, like you did not really set it up. I know memory loss comes from alcohol abuse, and I think most people do know that about alcoholism, so I think you need to set the memory stuff up a little more to make it pay off properly. Perhaps extend the police metaphor in a couple of lines to make your point a little more explicit, without overplaying it. I felt a little bit the same about writing about winter in the second verse. "Winter" What has that to do with anything? Well, still just thinking aloud, it might not be important. But while at it, I felt the same about the closing couplet in the bridge - "singing" sounds to me like a little forced effort to rhyme with "ringing", but it might work better if you set the 'singing' up in the second line of the bridge, which you now use to say a commonality (that he drinks from the bottle).. But, I really enjoyed reading this lyric. Intriguing title hook, with lots of great lines in there, great openers. A great metaphor to treat serious subjects like alcohol abuse and divorce with, I think! _________________________ Wish you all the best Magne ------------ Connect on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Songcabinet/226575740734781 Official website: http://www.thesongcabinet.com
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#714589 - 04/26/09 12:26 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
everword everword Serious Contributor Registered: 10/12/08 Posts: 50	I'm guessing your "memory police" are those little devils...I mean, NO, not devils... quite the opposite, in fact... that sometimes appear at inopportune times. I wrote a short story a few years ago (in high school), wherein the nemesis of the principle was named Phaledon. I didn't realize it at the time, but I had lifted the idea from Poe's Telltale Heart, though the storylines were very different. They both relied on the conscience of the narrator to drive the tale. So he is trying to keep his conscience mollified with alcohol? Maybe it is the Poe thing, but I wish you had gone a little deeper into his tortured soul, though what you have is well written, for sure. A third-floor room In a second-rate house (Rather large dwelling for what I perceive as a starving artist; or is he in some sort of home. Probably is, since, in the bridge, you mention his drinking when he "thinks he's alone." Somehow, I find that a bit of a distraction. DEtraction, actually, for it diminishes the idea of the memory police, in that he (supposedly) drinks to keep them at bay.) Now it's his home (HIS home? So he IS living there alone?) And it's never been worse (you might consider saying "And it keeps getting worse" to had to the gloominess) He's hunched at the table (He's an artist...why not "hunched at the easel") On the edge of his chair Staring at a paintbrush His hands in his hair (Excellent visual, otherwise) Chorus Ten years divorced Still rigid with the shock (Not an effective line, IMO. Could even be interpreted naughtily! <G>) He clutches Johnny Walker to his chest Maybe he hopes the bottle will block (Maybe reverse these 2 lines to give JW a more personal touch) The memory police from making an arrest (v2) Creating beauty For a modest fee (I'm trying to picture his patrons...who would solicit an artist, living in a very large, probably creepily ancient house, likely on haunted hill ;) He's a freelance artist With an alcohol need Enough just to get him (Wish this were more desperate, though I'm sure you mean it ... that he ONLY needs a minimal amount ... from his perspective.) Through a dark winter night When the past creeps in And turns on the light (Nice image!) Bridge He goes downstairs to sit by the phone Drinks from the bottle when he thinks he’s alone Sometimes he sings ...But the phone never rings (I think most people in this situation (inebriated) would MAKE calls, rather than simply sit by the phone awaiting one that never comes, especially when it might be those guys! ;) Anyway, I'm way overthinking this...blame it on Poe...but..wouldn't customers call sometimes?) (v3) The bottle or the breakup Not clear what came first (Keen insight) Once he hungered for love Now he lives for his thirst (Yes!) The laughter of a child And the touch of a wife Are remnants of a dream At the edge of his life (I like this a bunch. Best verse of the 3.) I know Ms. Schock will have advice that can actually HELP, and I feel sure this will turn into something really strong. Has all the makings, I think. Ev Edited by everword (04/26/09 12:45 PM)
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#714616 - 04/26/09 02:54 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: everword]
Scott Campbell Scott Campbell Top 10 Poster Registered: 07/22/05 Posts: 10861 Loc: Lakeland, FL, USA	Hi Donna: I think it's an interesting hook and a good scenario. I think it probably needs a rewrite though. Fundamentally, I'm still having a hard time sorting out whether he is drinking to remember or drinking to forget. Until I can get a sense of that, I can't make it all hang together for me. Logically, it seems as if he is drinking to remember. If the memory police are making an arrest, it sounds like that means they are preventing a memory from getting through (arresting a memory). So if he wants to block the memory police, that must mean he wants to have the memories come through. Yet some of the verse material makes it sound like he wants to forget. So I'm confused....... $\:\)$ That's the main difficulty I'm having with the lyric. There are plenty of good and clever lines in it. A couple I'm not sure about are: "Still rigid with the shock" (this doesn't seem believable after ten years. Grief maybe but not shock) "He clutches Johnny Walker to his chest" (I don't see him doing this in the privacy of his own home. A desperate drunk maybe who is out on the street and afraid someone will take his bottle away but not a guy alone in his home.) "Drinks from the bottle when he thinks he’s alone" (I would think he'd know for sure either way). Also, I agree with another poster who said drunks usually pick up the phone and make the call - rather than sit and wait for one. In fact, I know this... $\:\)$ These are all detail-type things though. Fundamentally, I think you should decide what the main point of the song is and write with that in mind. (You probably know what it is and I just can't figure it out - If so, revise that statement to "make the point of the song clearer to the listener"). Is it: To remind us of the dangers of alcohol? To show how an addiction can slowly sneak up on you and claim your life? To present a portrait of someone who has lost everything and is living on his memories? Something else? Hey, this is all just one opinion, Donna. I know you're a very good writer and for all I know, this might just be a first draft. I'll be interested to read Harriet's critique and your responses. Regards, Scott _________________________ Scott's CD "Full Assembly Required" on CD Baby Scott's EP Some Assembly Required - Free download at Prosity Records
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#714628 - 04/26/09 03:48 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
Colin Ward Colin Ward Top 100 Poster Registered: 05/31/06 Posts: 4663 Loc: Saint Petersburg. FL	Hi Donna, The lyric does a good job of telling the story. Not much doubt about what has happened and what is currently happening. I like V1 as is. It draws you in and sets up the tale quickly. The chorus is pretty good too but I don't like the word divorced much - I don't think it sings well and it's too blunt. Maybe alone or something similar. Ten years is a long time to harbor these feelings - is it realistic? Dunno. V2 is good but I might leave out He's. Bridge - changes the pace a bit and adds to the story. I might substitute There's no sound of dialing, and the phone never rings. V3 Good, except At the edge of his life. Maybe From a phase of his life _________________________ Colin ColinWardMusic.com Have You a Taste on CD Baby Blue Island Beer Club
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#714636 - 04/26/09 04:22 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Colin Ward]
lucian lucian Serious Contributor Registered: 09/23/08 Posts: 326 Loc: Camden Town, London	Donna, I think this has a lot of good points and a few bad ones, too. Alcoholics are a difficult thing to write a song about and it's best left to people who have direct experience of having them in their lives, and the alcoholic of the song needs to be someone either worth feeling sympathy for or nasty enough that you to want to kill them. The inbetweens, like a bearded drunk man of Camden Town, who walks around the streets in cowboy hat, rambling to himself, but never hassling people, are too far gone and it's hard to have much of a feeling one way or the other about them. So it's a big plus you've given you drunk a talent such as being an artist. The verses are mostly well written, but the chorus doesn't work at all, with the whole memory police thing sounding like something that belongs in a sci-fi film. The biggest issue with this song is that it's written in the 3rd person as a kind of mini-novella, but what the actual relationship the singer has to the drunk is never established, therefore there is none. So how could a singer sing this song with any emotion when there is no relationship between him/herself and the subject of the song? So perhaps it might be an idea to change the chorus, and include lyrics that let the listener know what the relationship between the drunk and the singer is. Perhaps it could a son singing to his father, imploring him to give up the booze, or imploring others not to look unkindly at his father because before his wife died (personally that would be better song than a divorce being the cause of alcohol problems) he was a great man, a kind man, and a good dad. Just my opinions, no more valid than anyone else's. Lucian
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#714671 - 04/26/09 07:15 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: lucian]
Z. Mulls Z. Mulls Serious Contributor Registered: 01/11/07 Posts: 314	(Posting first, then reading the other responses): I think what this lyric needs most is focus, and a stripping down of excess information and words. “The Memory Police” is a metaphor you are only using at the end of the chorus – “arrested” (stopped cold) by the memory police. In other words, he thinks about moving forward with his life, but he’s detained (maybe for questioning?) by the memory police. Other than the end of the chorus this idea isn’t developed at all and it’s a weakness because we’re sitting wondering how the title fits into it, or ties it all together. You might want to work “memory police” into a verse early on, signaling it to us, so it clicks in better when the chorus rolls around. I think verse 2 is unnecessary. You’re not telling us anything new – we already got that he’s depressed and lonely and he drinks. The detail about him being a visual artist does not reflect on anything else in the song. Maybe he is always drawing pictures of her? Or them? But you could really take that out and bring up verse 3 and the whole thing would be tighter (or give you room to develop your title a bit more). You’d have to change “paintbrush” in the first verse but there are a thousand things you could put there. (And if he’s an artist, why does he sometimes sing?) I don’t know what rhythm you’re after, but a song like this would benefit from starker language. Look at the first verse. Just by taking out extraneous words you could have this: Third-floor room Second-rate house Now it's his home Never been worse Hunched at the table Edge of his chair Stares at a paintbrush Hands in his hair You need fewer words per line in a song. Our ear fills in the “the”s and other filler words. You’re creating a mood piece without much plot, and there’s no movement in the song. It would be more interesting if something happened, even if it were just in his mind. Some sort of change or decision. Best of luck to you. _________________________ ZMULLS.COM My Soundclick 2007 Grand Prize Winner International Songwriting Competition Avatar Photo by Diana (used with permission)
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#714678 - 04/26/09 08:13 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
"Tampa Stan" Good "Tampa Stan" Good Top 10 Poster Registered: 07/24/10 Posts: 26755 Loc: Tampa, Florida since 1973	Waal, I'll let the "house/worse" slant-rhyme slide...& overall I like the Description of the Alcoholic Artist's Struggles...BUT.."The Memory Police" NEVER get Described ONCE in this piece. So..in spite of some elegant Lines & Great Couplets like the Bottle Breakup...it still leaves this Ol' Listener scratchin' his head. BECAUSE I'd assume the Artist IS trying to "Arrest" some Bad Memories WITH his Booze. WHICH clashes with The Chorus's Conclusion. Opening Couplet also kinda-confuses, tho it's artsy...as-has-been-already-mentioned. "Staring at a paintbrush" felt vague...early-on...tho yep, we're later told he's "..a freelance artist." Perhaps it'd suck me in better-earlier if "paintbrush" was replaced by "Staring at HIS ARTWORK"... Chorus: It's not what I'd call a "Grabber"...lemmie see... Ten Years Divorced/ Still feelin' Attacked/ The Memory Police..They Keep Marchin' Back/ Linin' Up Her Face..so He Can't Forget/ The Mistakes that He Made, That Rap Sheet of Regrets/ No Where To Run..No Where to Hide/ From the Memory Police..Inside-- I'd Chorus-Again after V2... Bridge Sug: He SNEAKS downstairs to sit by the phone JOINS Johnny Walker WHEN HE FEELS ALONE He HATES TO THINK WHILE the phone never rings... Last Verse is a Dandy. &..New Chorus-Out. That's all I can think of...Keep-or-Sweepit. Some Overall Good Writing, that JMO needed a bit More. Good Luck with it, & Congrats on Bein' Picked this week, Mz DonnaM! Big Hugs, Stan _________________________ I try to write For The Ages, yet I'm aware about the only 200-year-old Pop Songs that have survived are Nursery Rhymes....
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#714714 - 04/26/09 10:13 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: ]
Samuel Harris Samuel Harris Top 100 Poster Registered: 03/06/05 Posts: 3618 Loc: Burleson, Texas	This lyric introduces us to a man who cannot get over the trauma of his divorce. He has a drinking problem and misses his wife and kids. We know he is a free lance artist and that he prefers Johnny Walker but that’s about all we know. I’m grappling for a reason to connect with him. Because the title hook (memory police) is never developed, it seems like a gimmick. I can’t think of a single successful song that does not develop the title hook. (Songs like "The Wait" are exceptions because they don't have a title hook-just a title). You have some pretty good hooks in the song –in fact almost all of verse 3 is composed of interesting hooks. But your title hook is just stuck out there without context. I can’t help comparing this song to another song about an artist and a lost relationship. Here are the lyrics to Paint me a Birmingham. I apologize for just referring you to another lyric but what better way do we have to learn how to write great lyrics than to study the great lyrics that are already written. Notice, that “Paint me a Birmingham” doesn’t tell us what the character is, or should be. It doesn’t tell us he is divorced, an alcoholic, sad or remorseful. All it does, pardon the pun, is paint the picture. Paint Me A Birmingham He was sittin' there, his brush in hand Paintin' waves as they danced, upon the sand With every stroke, he brought to life The deep blue of the ocean, against the mornin' sky I asked him if he only painted ocean scenes He said for twenty dollars, I’ll paint you anything Could you Paint Me A Birmingham Make it look just the way I planned A little house on the edge of town Porch goin’ all the way around Put her there in the front yard swing Cotton dress make it, early spring For a while she’ll be, mine again If you can Paint Me A Birmingham He looked at me, with knowing eyes Then took a canvas from a bag there by his side Picked up a brush, and said to me Son just where in this picture would you like to be I said if there’s any way you can Could you paint me back into her arms again. Could you Paint Me A Birmingham Make it look just the way I planned A little house on the edge of town Porch goin' all the way around Put her there in the front yard swing Cotton dress make it, early spring For a while she’ll be, mine again If you can Paint Me A Birmingham Oh Paint Me A Birmingham In my opinion, to make your lyric work, you have to decide what title hook you want to develop. I am sure that if you really thought about it, you will find that "memory police" is not what you want to work with. It is not that it would not take you anywhere if your developed it, it is just that you did not go with it, so I am guessing your heart was not in it. Take a look at your third verse. That is the only part of the lyric where I though you were saying something you believed in. If you are going to tell us that your character paints, then you should integrate that idea into the story. Metaphorically speaking, you can't have him just sitting in front of the canvas and not paint anything. Every thing in a good poem or lyric will have a reason for being there. The really good ones may have several reasons for being- that is the magic of this form of expression; that more than one idea can be conveyed in a few words. _________________________ "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
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#714788 - 04/27/09 05:05 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Samuel Harris]
Randy P. Gendron Randy P. Gendron Serious Contributor Registered: 05/24/08 Posts: 411	edit: No need to respond to this post (you've already answered my question) plus, I'm anxious to read your re-write Donna, I wasn't prepared to KOS (literally, this lyric has quite a few unexpected moments) so I'm only gonna ask a few questions $\:\)$ O and I apologize if they're "been there; done that" in any way. I decided to wait until I posted before reading other comments. But I have a sneaky suspicion we're all gonna bunch up in the same area, it's a short chorus - I hope there's room for all of us :wink: Anyhoo... First question: Who are The Memory Police, really ? Your lyric reveals very little about 'em except that they are important enough to appear in your title and hook . Granted, "memory" and "police" are pretty descriptive words so I could presume them to be: The cerebral agents empowered to establish and maintain actual awareness, perception and reasoning through the authorized use of thought.. But, in the end, it's only an assumption and everyone knows what happens to people who assume. So what's the "real" story here? Last question: Considering the impact a chorus has on the entire song, why did you use the word "Maybe" at a point where things should be clearly understood. It's an interesting choice to keep your chorus unresolved, and I'd like to know if this was planned for effect... or was this a case of, "for lack of a better word ?" ... $\:\)$ randy Edited by Randy P. Gendron (05/08/09 06:56 AM) _________________________
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#714799 - 04/27/09 07:21 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Randy P. Gendron]
Randy P. Gendron Randy P. Gendron Serious Contributor Registered: 05/24/08 Posts: 411	edit: Again, no need to respond to this one either... it's a compliment, enjoy $\:\)$ Hello again Donna , After reading all the comments :gulp: I finally realized the true value of your lyric. Sure, "Memory Police" may not be the best thing you've ever posted, 'cause you've posted sum real Beauties, but it's definitely the most generous Thank you for sharing, randy Edited by Randy P. Gendron (05/08/09 06:48 AM) _________________________
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#714918 - 04/27/09 02:11 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Randy P. Gendron]
Samuel Harris Samuel Harris Top 100 Poster Registered: 03/06/05 Posts: 3618 Loc: Burleson, Texas	I am persuaded that listeners recognize great songwriting craft instinctively, even if they can't pin point what is right about it. Conversely, they know when something isn't right. Reading back over the comments after I posted, I see that most readers recognized that your title hook (memory police) had no context to the rest of the lyric. That is the number one problem with the lyric. I think it would be interesting to write around that idea, but you would have a completely different lyric than you have now. If you want to stick to the main theme of what you have now, here are a couple of title hooks you might want to consider: "The bottle or the breakup" "He lives for his thirst" "The phone never rings" If you want to develop this lyric emphasizing the fact that the character is an artist, then certainly study "Paint me a Birmingham". You will, however, have to put something on your character's canvas. Every artist puts something of himself and his experiences in his work even if he is doing a commissioned work. Perhaps your character paints his sadness or his trauma. You then have an opportunity to show (not tell) us things about him. You can use what he puts on the canvas to tell us things you try to tell us too directly now. To me the weakest line in your lyric is "Ten years divorced". It is like you had inadvertently put one of your margin notes into the lyric. In your margin notes, you might say- "I am going to write about an alcoholic painter who has been divorced 10 years and is haunted by memories". But these are notes to yourself- not for your audience. You don't want to use the same kind of language you use in your notes. In a lyric like this, you want to convey something that pulls at the heart. To do that, you have to get honest. Lucian, in his post said, "Alcoholics are a difficult thing to write a song about and it's best left to people who have direct experience of having them in their lives...." That may be the problem here. Maybe you are writing too remotely. I think you can write about alcoholics successfully without being one, but probably not so well if you don't at least know one. If you are in fact acquainted with the disease, then you can draw from that well. Probably my favorite song about alcoholism is Whiskey Lullaby Here is the chorus. She put the bottle to her head and pulled the trigger And finally drank away his memory Life is short but this time it was bigger Than the strength she had to get up off her knees _________________________ "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
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#714985 - 04/27/09 06:23 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Samuel Harris]
Ricki E. Bellos Ricki E. Bellos Top 100 Poster Registered: 04/12/08 Posts: 3817 Loc: Wisconsin	Hi Donna, Lots of good ideas from folks. I only have a couple of nits myself, repeats of some of the above. Mainly, lines that just don't ring true: "Still rigid with the shock". I wouldn't think so after 10 years. Either shorten the time frame or find another way to say he's in emotional pain. "He goes downstairs to sit by the phone Drinks from the bottle when he thinks he’s alone Sometimes he sings ...But the phone never rings" I think if he drinks a lot, he's more apt to make a drunken call than to just sit there, but again, after 10 years, it isn't as plausible. A really dark story and overall, I think it's a well written one. I hear a slow, bluesy melody, a little wailing guitar, mournful sax, the usual suspects! Ricki _________________________ http://www.soundclick.com/rickib http://soundcloud.com/rickib http://www.stoneybeachmusic.com/index.html One door closes, another opens
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#715008 - 04/27/09 07:36 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
Michael Zaneski Michael Zaneski Top 100 Poster Registered: 07/30/06 Posts: 3101 Loc: California	Hi Donna, I had a real hard time with your hook, but after alot of thinking, okay, he's drinking in the hopes that he can bring them back in his memories, which explains why he "worries someone else is around" in the bridge, perhaps. It took me a long time to to arrive at this conclusion, and it was like being back in "Logic Class", trying to suss out the job that the memory police actually perform: blocking or enforcing his memories. They want to stop his memories, that's why they're antagonists. Took awhile to see this, cuz I, too, thought he was trying to "forget". In fact, you leave more clues that he is "drinking to forget, as in: When the past creeps in which doesn't exactly sound like the past is invited. In the bridge, I don't think this works: "Drinks from the bottle when he thinks he’s alone" isn't he usually alone? if it's meant to suggest that he entertains imaginary friends when he's drunk, it's too esoteric for a listener I think... Looks like you couldn't figure out what else to say, cuz V3 seems to retread the same ground with "Once he hungered for love Now he lives for his thirst" ...so maybe this song is a "still life" and not an action painting, he's "stuck" and trying to find a place to be where life can't hurt him......still...I think maybe a couple more nice details about his ex-wife, who he's still obsessed with...maybe he can't escape the memory police in his dreams, and his dreams can get a line in, in place of the "thirst" couplet, or even the top 4 lines, could be nixed with no significant info lost...? now and then in his dreams much more real than ghostly their familiar sounds bring him back, but mostly The laughter of a child And the sighs of a wife Are remnants of a dream At the edge of his life ...just meant to give an idea of getting "them" in there... That's all I got Donna, this has great possibilities! best wishes, Mike Edited by Michael Zaneski (04/28/09 11:11 PM) _________________________ Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice Fortune depends on the tone of your voice -The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon) from the song "Songs of Love" from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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#715040 - 04/27/09 08:47 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
Joy Boy Joy Boy Serious Contributor Registered: 06/17/10 Posts: 695	I think most of these lyrics are well crafted, and I'd agree with the points about "memory police" not being developed enough to be the hook. What came to my mind is the possibility that the real police -- and likely alcohol -- could have had something to do with why his marriage ended. If he blames himself for what happened, the "memory police" could be a symbol for holding on to that guilt. Anyway, it seems like a stretch. And I know that sometimes you have to suspend a little disbelief for a story, but the idea that a shellshocked alcoholic is going to make a living as a "freelance" artist just doesn't ring true. (Honestly, I'm not sure what you mean by a freelance artist.)OK, I'm sitting here drunk staring at my brushes, but now I'm going to get up and paint some client's beautiful rose garden or this little girl's portrait. Since he's in that big house, maybe he could be going from room to room painting what he remembers of her on the walls when he's not drinking to forget her. Hmmmm. That could make a good short story.
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#715321 - 04/28/09 03:30 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: ]
Lee Arten Lee Arten Serious Contributor Registered: 10/20/06 Posts: 678	I don't have any problem with the third floor room line. College towns are full of old houses that have been broken up into apartments. I've known several people who lived in third floor rooms with a communal phone in the hall. I also think folks could be overthinking the alcoholic artist bit. It's not that uncommon for alcoholics to be artists, writers, etc. Some go on for years drinking when they aren't working. _________________________ "No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money." Johnson.
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#715323 - 04/28/09 03:56 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Lee Arten]
Frank N Furter Frank N Furter Serious Contributor Registered: 04/14/07 Posts: 185 Loc: USA	You might be right Lee, but phones in those places sure don't not "never ring." Plus, this "communal phone" isn't even on the same floor. Ohhh, you were talking about the 1930s when that was common. I see. $\:\)$ Code: It's not that uncommon for alcoholics to be artists, writers, etc. Some go on for years drinking when they aren't working. OR, to go on for years drinking when they ARE working!
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#715847 - 04/30/09 02:22 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Frank N Furter]
harriet schock harriet schock JPF Mentor Registered: 12/01/01 Posts: 102 Loc: L.A., CA 90036	THE MEMORY POLICE (v1) A third-floor room In a second-rate house Now it's his home And it's never been worse He's hunched at the table On the edge of his chair Staring at a paintbrush His hands in his hair Chorus Ten years divorced Still rigid with the shock He clutches Johnny Walker to his chest Maybe he hopes the bottle will block The memory police from making an arrest (v2) Creating beauty For a modest fee He's a freelance artist With an alcohol need Enough just to get him Through a dark winter night When the past creeps in And turns on the light Bridge He goes downstairs to sit by the phone Drinks from the bottle when he thinks he’s alone Sometimes he sings ...But the phone never rings (v3) The bottle or the breakup Not clear what came first Once he hungered for love Now he lives for his thirst The laughter of a child And the touch of a wife Are remnants of a dream At the edge of his life Chorus Ten years divorced Still rigid with the shock He clutches Johnny Walker to his chest Maybe he’s hoping the bottle will block The memory police from making an arrest © D.Devine 2008 There are so many conflicting comments on this song, it's amazing. For me, it's never the same to read a lyric as to hear a song. However, I could tell by reading this lyric we would have a good discussion. I'm surprised by some of the critiques, quite honestly. I actually like the fact that "the memory police" does not have a lot of "furniture" as they call it in Nashville strewn throughout the lyric having to do with arrests, police, the law, etc. That would ruin it for me. I think the chorus needs work, as I'll explain, but not in the way many of you have suggested. I don't want any more reference to police. I think the last line is killer just as it is, but I think I am interpreting it differently from some of you. I think the memory police would imprison this guy in his memories of his family and he's drinking so they don't come and arrest him and put him in that prison. I didn't even SEE it the other way until some of you suggested the opposite. I like it the way I saw it and think that's what most people will get from it. Sometimes you have to put a gem in your lyric, leave it alone and not belabor it with all sorts of language to set it up, exploit it and "hammer it home." So much for the title, which I like and think works fine. The first two lines of the chorus, however, are another matter. First of all, the rhythm of the melody in the verses should vary from the rhythm of the chorus. The first two lines should be longer to create that variation. Luckily, these two lines should be rewritten anyway, because of the meaning, so you can just rewrite them, period. You don't want to say "ten years divorced" because that's exposition and you want to hide the fact that you're letting the audience know things, not telegraph it. Any exposition belongs in the verses anyway, so move or get rid of that. The second line has troubled many of us. Maybe he's now numb from the shock but he's not rigid. You can't really make the story about someone who's grieving a loss from her death and keep the phone reference and the "bottle or the breakup" line. So I suppose we should keep them divorced rather than his being a widower. I agree with Songcabinet (sorry I don't know the name) that he should be clutching the bottle and hoping Johnny Walker'll block the memory police. That works better for the conversationalism. Rather than "will" you should put "Johnny Walker'll block..." It's much easier to sing than "bottle'll block." Let's move back to the first verse for a minute. I love the first two lines but if I accept my meaning of them, the third line doesn't make sense to me ("Now it's his home"). I figured he was renting a room on the third floor of a second-rate house. I could buy that this room is now his home until he comes downstairs to sit by the phone. It sounds like the whole house is his which seems odd somehow. Maybe I've lived in California too long where it would be highly unlikely for someone eking out a living to live in a big house, even a third-rate one, but Donna, please let us know your intentions with that. I would not rhyme "house" and "worse," and I doubt that it's never been worse. I suspect it was worse when she first left. The next four lines work for me. It's odd that the last song I critiqued had someone's hand in his hair. This one works better for that picture. I'd like to know how he creates beauty for a modest fee. Does he paint pictures and sell them at flea markets? Does he paint people's pictures? Aren't all artists freelance artists? I suppose he could work for an advertising agency, but I 'd find another word for "freelance." Charles Bukowski wrote poetry and drank and worked for the post office nearly his entire life. So it's not unbelievable that he could be an artist and an alcoholic. "Alcohol need" is a problem for me, though, because you're telling us again rather than showing us. Say it a different way if you want to lead to the line "Enough to get him through a dark winter night." You can talk about the whisky, but don't say "alcohol need." It's too conceptual, expository and abstract. I love the last two lines of the second verse. Wonderful.("When the past creeps in And turns on the light.") You'd never know how much I really do like this lyric with all the faults I'm finding, but, Donna, I think this can all be fixed and you have something really nice here. Okay, the bridge bothers me because he's going downstairs to sit by the phone. I must know at this point if this is his house, if there are other people there or not. If he lives alone, then the line about drinking form the bottle when he thinks he's alone is a bit strange. I like the line but I think if he lives alone, you should say something more like "drinks from the bottle, why not? He's alone." "Sometime he sings" works but not the "but" in the next line. How are those connected by "but"? Did he expect the phone to ring because he sang? Is he waiting for the wife ten years gone to call? Is he hoping for a client? Is he waiting for anyone just because he's lonely and wants a distraction from the memories? What is he doing by the phone? And why is he doing it downstairs? The third verse starts well, in my opinion. We don't have to know which came first. I like that he's wondering, and if he's wondering it was probably the bottle that came first. Mike Zaneski suggested this for a 3rd verse: now and then in his dreams much more real than ghostly their familiar sounds bring him back, but mostly The laughter of a child And the sighs of a wife Are remnants of a dream At the edge of his life I liked this when I first read it, and it might be something for Donna to consider if for no other reason than it gives us more time with his memory, which is the central problem--he' s fighting the memories. But I still like "The bottle or the breakup, not clear what came first....and I think the next two lines can work too. I agree with most of the posters that the strongest lyric in the whole thing is: "The laughter of a child And the touch of a wife Are remnants of a dream At the edge of his life" That's really excellent. So I disagree that you have two songs going on or that the title should be developed more (although more about the lost family might be helpful unless you are trying to leave them out because he's trying not to think of them and this is sort of an inner monologue). I agree that "Whiskey Lullaby" is one of the best lyrics on the subject of alcohol ever written. And here's a radical suggestion: I think you have a strong story with or without the alcohol. I don't think this song is about drinking and I don't think you need to have an agenda and be clear about what it is. I think you're painting a story of an artist who lost his family and is trying to get through the night without being imprisoned in the regret that their memory brings. Alcohol is a natural to bring into the story, but I don't think you ever meant it to be about alcohol, nor do you need to have any first or second-hand information to write a story with alcohol in it. But I do think you need to give us a clearer idea of where he lives, what he does and why he's doing what he's doing--especially when he's by the phone. That would surely help me out. Maybe you could mention some of the things he doesn't dare do, like look at anything in the room, however bare, because it still reminds him of her/them, etc. Of course, you would be specific. I was just saying what it could say not how you could say it. One place you need to say something that pulls our heartstrings is in the first two lines of the chorus. That has to be an emotional cry. It can't be a documentary. Change a few of these things and see if you don't have people scrambling to write the melody. Edited by harriet schock (04/30/09 12:20 PM) _________________________ Harriet Schock On-line Songwriting Courses/Consultation harrietschock@earthlink.net http://www.harrietschock.com http://www.allmusic.com http://www.cdbaby.com http://www.myspace.com/harrietschock
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#716011 - 04/30/09 03:19 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: harriet schock]
Samuel Harris Samuel Harris Top 100 Poster Registered: 03/06/05 Posts: 3618 Loc: Burleson, Texas	If the title hook is going to work, I still think it needs foreshadowing, or hints or something to help the listener connect more naturally to it. Here is a possible way to fold the hook into the chorus. And I think this shows how the painter can be relevant to the lyric. (v1) On the 2nd floor of a 1st street dive Behind a blue door He paints a lost life Hunched at the table On the edge of his chair Staring at a paintbrush His hands in his hair Chorus 1 He paints her face with a slight pink blush He caresses her cheek with the stroke of his brush Paints her blue eyes bright, but they still look sad You can’t paint happy when love goes bad He holds a bottle to his chest and he sips release Awaiting the arrest of the memory police Imprisoned in the past He lives his still life Until Love creeps in And turn on the light He holds the brush ready Until his memory reveals All the good times lived That his pain conceals Chorus 2 He paints a little girl’s smile on a playground swing With ribbons in her hair like blossoms in Spring Paints her eyes the shade as his own in the mirror He cant paint his love for her any clearer So he puts the bottle to his lips and sips release Awaiting the arrest of the memory police Bridge: The laughter of a child And the touch of a wife Are remnants of a dream At the edge of his life Chorus 3: He paints his daughter and her mother at the lake in spring With the sun on the water and the trees so green He could almost cry, for he was almost there But his time is up so he says a prayer Let me stay a little longer or let me rest in peace Hide me away from the memory police _________________________ "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
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#716095 - 04/30/09 09:28 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Samuel Harris]
Frank N Furter Frank N Furter Serious Contributor Registered: 04/14/07 Posts: 185 Loc: USA	I see the light more easily now, thanks to Harriet. Thanks, Harriet. $\:\)$ SjHa, many hours have passed since your post. I don't know why, but I will say this...I think what you've come up with is great! Though it is worded very differently from the original, it covers the same turf in a clearer way, IMO. Looks like a superb co-write (bearing in mind that I haven't a clue regarding what's actually good. ;) ) In V1 you have "Behind a blue door" which is good, though I think that word (blue) is overused in lyrics, and one I hardly ever hear elsewhere. I think it would be cool to have an unpainted door, to show the roughness of the house and to play off the fact he is a painter. Just need a one syllable word for unpainted. Hope it's ok to comment like this. I realize it is still Donna's lyric that is on display for comment. fnf
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#716115 - 04/30/09 11:57 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Frank N Furter]
John Hoffman John Hoffman Top 100 Poster Registered: 02/02/06 Posts: 2922 Loc: St. Peters, Mo.	Well, I think Sammy Joe nailed it! The thing for me was/is the hook is not inherently intuitive. Joe's use of the paintings makes it perfectly clear. Again Sammy Joe nailed it! John _________________________ Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword never had an editor.
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#716117 - 05/01/09 12:13 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: John Hoffman]
harriet schock harriet schock JPF Mentor Registered: 12/01/01 Posts: 102 Loc: L.A., CA 90036	If I may poke my head in, I'd like to invite Donna to comment. However wonderful Joe's rewrite may be, and I know him to be an excellent writer, it is not the same song. I would like for Donna to answer my questions and comment on her lyric, which is quite a different lyric from the one Joe wrote. No disrespect to Joe who did a lovely job. But it's apples and oranges, really. _________________________ Harriet Schock On-line Songwriting Courses/Consultation harrietschock@earthlink.net http://www.harrietschock.com http://www.allmusic.com http://www.cdbaby.com http://www.myspace.com/harrietschock
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#716193 - 05/01/09 08:30 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: harriet schock]
Kevin Emmrich Kevin Emmrich Top 20 Poster Registered: 02/24/07 Posts: 8632 Loc: Crozet, VA	Donna hasn't posted in over a week -- maybe she doesn't even know her song was selected???? Kevin _________________________ *"Make Every Line Count"* Kevin at Soundclick and ... more Soundclick skype: Kevin.Emmrich
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#716217 - 05/01/09 09:40 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Kevin Emmrich]
Samuel Harris Samuel Harris Top 100 Poster Registered: 03/06/05 Posts: 3618 Loc: Burleson, Texas	And I want to point out that I mean no respect to Donna for posting this alternative lyric. It was just my way of making the point I had made in the previous post. I thought the artist had to have something on the canvas to tell the story. Harriet is right, this is apples and oranges. I too would like to hear what Donna has to say about Harriet's analysis. sjh edit-Friday I think one thing I learned about Donna's title hook by doing the exercise was to learn what she meant by "memory police"- which is the opposite of what I thought before I did the exercise. Before I did it, I thought the "memory police" arrested the 'man' for remembering and somehow punished him. Later I realized that she probably meant that his (happy) memories of the life he had with his family would end (be arrested). That means that the memory police really represent his present circumstance in life- lonely, regretful and alcoholic. Sitting in front of the canvas, his memories are the recollection of better days, and when they are "arrested", he is back to the sad reality of his life. Edited by Samuel (joe) Harris (05/01/09 12:04 PM) _________________________ "Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
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#716224 - 05/01/09 10:03 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Samuel Harris]
Ricki E. Bellos Ricki E. Bellos Top 100 Poster Registered: 04/12/08 Posts: 3817 Loc: Wisconsin	I think Donna is out of town for a while. Bad timing. _________________________ http://www.soundclick.com/rickib http://soundcloud.com/rickib http://www.stoneybeachmusic.com/index.html One door closes, another opens
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#716246 - 05/01/09 11:22 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Ricki E. Bellos]
Colin Ward Colin Ward Top 100 Poster Registered: 05/31/06 Posts: 4663 Loc: Saint Petersburg. FL	I would bet that she is thinking of a rooming house with one phone in the lobby to be shared by all the tenants. I know musicians who live in such places. _________________________ Colin ColinWardMusic.com Have You a Taste on CD Baby Blue Island Beer Club
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#716269 - 05/01/09 01:18 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Samuel Harris]
Michael Zaneski Michael Zaneski Top 100 Poster Registered: 07/30/06 Posts: 3101 Loc: California	I agree with most of Harriet's critique. I think all Donna needs to do is make it very clear in a listeners mind early on, whether our painter drinks, as Scott put it, to"remember or forget"...THEN we won't be spending all our energy on trying to figure this out, and can actually enjoy the lyric! Sam, I came to think the same thing about the "memory police", and it took me a while too...but for the LIFE of me, can't recall what my thought process was that led me there, though I say, "They want to stop his memories (make "arrests"), that's why they're antagonists." I don't see how "arrest" could be used to mean "enforce", since the two words are practically antonyms, in this context! I wish I had gone into more detail, cuz it's pretty evenly divided both ways, which should tell Donna to write something into V1 that immediately clears this up! Mike Edited by Michael Zaneski (05/01/09 01:42 PM) _________________________ Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice Fortune depends on the tone of your voice -The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon) from the song "Songs of Love" from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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#716438 - 05/02/09 01:52 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Michael Zaneski]
John Hoffman John Hoffman Top 100 Poster Registered: 02/02/06 Posts: 2922 Loc: St. Peters, Mo.	I must apologize for my exhuberance over Mr. Harris's post. He merely managed to illustrate very eloquently what I could not adequately express. No disrespect intended to Ms. Schock or Donna. I think it's a wonderful idea. John _________________________ Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword never had an editor.
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#716444 - 05/02/09 02:33 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: John Hoffman]
harriet schock harriet schock JPF Mentor Registered: 12/01/01 Posts: 102 Loc: L.A., CA 90036	And I meant no disrepect to Sam Joe! I think it was great that he put that much creative energy into and turned out something so good. Now, regarding "memory police"=: When the traffic police make an arrest, they don't stop (arrest)traffic. To me, it meant the memory police would put him in jail and he would be imprisoned by and with his memories. Isn't it funny how one line can mean so many things to so many people? If I had seen it the way you guys do, I'm not sure I would have liked it as much. I'd have to think real hard to come up with any other explanation than the one that occurred to me right away. _________________________ Harriet Schock On-line Songwriting Courses/Consultation harrietschock@earthlink.net http://www.harrietschock.com http://www.allmusic.com http://www.cdbaby.com http://www.myspace.com/harrietschock
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#716537 - 05/02/09 11:44 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: harriet schock]
"Tampa Stan" Good "Tampa Stan" Good Top 10 Poster Registered: 07/24/10 Posts: 26755 Loc: Tampa, Florida since 1973	HI Again... I re-read Donna's Lyric again...before I composed this "Mention"... &..somehow I STILL can't see how this links to Reality. Normally, when ya Overdo-The-Booze..The Police ARRIVE...not The Opposite. Thus, I hardheadedly STILL wanted More Narrative about just WHAT PARAMETERS these Cops Operate-Under. After-All, They ARE The Hook here... So..as Sgt Joe Friday used to say, "Just The Facts, Ma'am"...& this'd be a more enjoyable read/listen. JMO again, but of course. Big Hugs, Stan _________________________ I try to write For The Ages, yet I'm aware about the only 200-year-old Pop Songs that have survived are Nursery Rhymes....
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#716538 - 05/02/09 11:57 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: harriet schock]
Michael Zaneski Michael Zaneski Top 100 Poster Registered: 07/30/06 Posts: 3101 Loc: California	Originally Posted By: harriet schock And I meant no disrepect to Sam Joe! I think it was great that he put that much creative energy into and turned out something so good. Now, regarding "memory police"=: When the traffic police make an arrest, they don't stop (arrest)traffic. To me, it meant the memory police would put him in jail and he would be imprisoned by and with his memories. Isn't it funny how one line can mean so many things to so many people? If I had seen it the way you guys do, I'm not sure I would have liked it as much. I'd have to think real hard to come up with any other explanation than the one that occurred to me right away. Hi Harriet, Lol, yes, it is funny. I agreed with you until the issue narrowed down to "arrest vs. enforce", as it does for you, except we veer off with you seeing the memory police as "enforcers" of his memories. This is where I couldn't get past "arrest"s more general meaning, "to stop". I hope Donna doesn't like the idea that her line means different things to different people, lol, then we're all doomed! Mike Edited by Michael Zaneski (05/02/09 12:06 PM) _________________________ Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice Fortune depends on the tone of your voice -The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon) from the song "Songs of Love" from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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#716634 - 05/02/09 08:28 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Michael Zaneski]
everword everword Serious Contributor Registered: 10/12/08 Posts: 50	Seems we had a hoedown at the Big House and the honoree was whisked away by those dreaded memory police. $\:\)$ Quite an interesting array of responses. Sure hope Donna is well, and will soon be enlightening us on this puzzler!
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#716645 - 05/02/09 11:14 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: harriet schock]
Scott Campbell Scott Campbell Top 10 Poster Registered: 07/22/05 Posts: 10861 Loc: Lakeland, FL, USA	Originally Posted By: harriet schock When the traffic police make an arrest, they don't stop (arrest)traffic. To me, it meant the memory police would put him in jail and he would be imprisoned by and with his memories. Isn't it funny how one line can mean so many things to so many people? This is like that picture of the vase. Until someone says its really two people facing each other and then you see THAT! I can see that interpretation now and it makes sense within the context of the song. I wonder why it didn't occur to me the first time. Maybe it's because of the impersonal way the line is written. Had it been something like "the memory police from arresting him" it would have been obvious. $\:\)$ Scott _________________________ Scott's CD "Full Assembly Required" on CD Baby Scott's EP Some Assembly Required - Free download at Prosity Records
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#716692 - 05/03/09 03:33 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Scott Campbell]
John Hoffman John Hoffman Top 100 Poster Registered: 02/02/06 Posts: 2922 Loc: St. Peters, Mo.	If only Donna were here. Sooner or later probably. I can see both ideas now that they've been stated but I honestly had no interpretation. I was just looking for clarification from the lyric as what constituted memory police. Both Joe and Harriet provided clarification. I can't deny my admiration for Joe's artistic way of doing so. This would be a good time to hear Donna's thoughts about she intended...etc. John _________________________ Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword never had an editor.
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#717016 - 05/04/09 04:57 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: John Hoffman]
DonnaMarilyn DonnaMarilyn Top 100 Poster Registered: 08/16/08 Posts: 3635 Loc: Netherlands	WOW! I've been away for the past 10 days, and was amazed just now to learn my lyric had been selected! $\:\)$ I got in very late last night (midnight)after travelling all day and I have to rush out to the office just now (I'm already running late), but will get back to the thread as soon as I can. I'm thrilled that so many of you have responded, and I'll print out and read everything closely. I'll then get back with my own comments/thoughts, and so on. Thank you so much, Harriet and everyone. Please stay tuned. $\:\)$ Donna _________________________ Honour the Earth. Without it, we'd be nowhere. Life is too important to take seriously. http://www.reverbnation.com/donnamarilynrichblend Guild of International Songwriters and Composers
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#717050 - 05/04/09 08:14 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: harriet schock]
DonnaMarilyn DonnaMarilyn Top 100 Poster Registered: 08/16/08 Posts: 3635 Loc: Netherlands	First of all, thank you for your valuable critique, Harriet. It was an honour - and a surprise - to be selected. I apologize for failing to realize I’d be absent in the event my lyric was selected for critique. Thank you too for your kind comments and encouragement. The discussion has been amazing and edifying and I’ve enjoyed every word of it. (I’ll respond to individual posts a little later.) I’ll begin here though by responding to your own comments. There are so many conflicting comments on this song, it's amazing. For me, it's never the same to read a lyric as to hear a song. However, I could tell by reading this lyric we would have a good discussion. I'm surprised by some of the critiques, quite honestly. I actually like the fact that "the memory police" does not have a lot of "furniture" as they call it in Nashville strewn throughout the lyric having to do with arrests, police, the law, etc. That would ruin it for me. I think the chorus needs work, as I'll explain, but not in the way many of you have suggested. I don't want any more reference to police. I think the last line is killer just as it is, but I think I am interpreting it differently from some of you. I think the memory police would imprison this guy in his memories of his family and he's drinking so they don't come and arrest him and put him in that prison. In fact, the intention was the opposite, but I’ll consider the interpretation that you and several others had. It think it was Scott who first perceived that the man is drinking in order to keep the good memories. Because if he stops, this is when the “memory police” will “arrest” and force him to live with the reality of his desolation. I didn't even SEE it the other way until some of you suggested the opposite. I like it the way I saw it and think that's what most people will get from it. Sometimes you have to put a gem in your lyric, leave it alone and not belabor it with all sorts of language to set it up, exploit it and "hammer it home." So much for the title, which I like and think works fine. The first two lines of the chorus, however, are another matter. First of all, the rhythm of the melody in the verses should vary from the rhythm of the chorus. The first two lines should be longer to create that variation. I agree. I wrote the lyric some months ago, when I knew even less about lyric writing than I do now. (-: I’d have made sure there was more variation/distinction, and will do so in the revision. Luckily, these two lines should be rewritten anyway, because of the meaning, so you can just rewrite them, period. You don't want to say "ten years divorced" because that's exposition and you want to hide the fact that you're letting the audience know things, not telegraph it. I take that excellent point. Any exposition belongs in the verses anyway I agree, so move or get rid of that. The second line has troubled many of us. Maybe he's now numb from the shock but he's not rigid. You can't really make the story about someone who's grieving a loss from her death and keep the phone reference and the "bottle or the breakup" line. So I suppose we should keep them divorced rather than his being a widower. Yes, I want to keep him divorced, as that was the situation. I agree with Songcabinet (sorry I don't know the name) that he should be clutching the bottle and hoping Johnny Walker'll block the memory police. That works better for the conversationalism. I agree here. A couple of people mentioned using this inversion. I like the idea. Rather than "will" you should put "Johnny Walker'll block..." It's much easier to sing than "bottle'll block." Let's move back to the first verse for a minute. I love the first two lines but if I accept my meaning of them, the third line doesn't make sense to me ("Now it's his home"). I figured he was renting a room on the third floor of a second-rate house. Yes, this is the fact. I could buy that this room is now his home until he comes downstairs to sit by the phone. It sounds like the whole house is his which seems odd somehow. It was a large house, once a private residence (until the owner’s wife and son died) and then was turned into a boarding house. The phone was a communal one in the front hall. Maybe I've lived in California too long where it would be highly unlikely for someone eking out a living to live in a big house, even a third-rate one, but Donna, please let us know your intentions with that. I would not rhyme "house" and "worse," I take that point and I doubt that it's never been worse. I suspect it was worse when she first left. I take this point as well. What I had in mind though was that it was a gradual downhill slide for the man from the time of the divorce to the present. The next four lines work for me. It's odd that the last song I critiqued had someone's hand in his hair. This one works better for that picture. I'd like to know how he creates beauty for a modest fee. Does he paint pictures and sell them at flea markets? Does he paint people's pictures? Aren't all artists freelance artists? I suppose he could work for an advertising agency, but I 'd find another word for "freelance." Indeed, the man did work for one or two advertising agencies. He was a commercial artist and worked to commission. I think there was one agency in particular. Charles Bukowski wrote poetry and drank and worked for the post office nearly his entire life. So it's not unbelievable that he could be an artist and an alcoholic. "Alcohol need" is a problem for me, though, because you're telling us again rather than showing us. Say it a different way Yes, I see where this is necessary if you want to lead to the line "Enough to get him through a dark winter night." You can talk about the whisky, but don't say "alcohol need." It's too conceptual, expository and abstract. I agree. I love the last two lines of the second verse. Wonderful.("When the past creeps in And turns on the light.") You'd never know how much I really do like this lyric with all the faults I'm finding, but, Donna, I think this can all be fixed and you have something really nice here. Thank you. I’m taking every suggestion to heart. (-: Okay, the bridge bothers me because he's going downstairs to sit by the phone. I must know at this point if this is his house, if there are other people there or not. If he lives alone, then the line about drinking form the bottle when he thinks he's alone is a bit strange. There were other people in the house. Three on the ground floor (where the phone was), one on the second floor, four on the third floor, and one on the fourth. I like the line but I think if he lives alone, you should say something more like "drinks from the bottle, why not? He's alone." "Sometime he sings" works but not the "but" in the next line. How are those connected by "but"? Did he expect the phone to ring because he sang? When he was drunk he would sing to himself. Perhaps these were songs he’d sung to his child (a daughter). Is he waiting for the wife ten years gone to call? Is he hoping for a client? Is he waiting for anyone just because he's lonely and wants a distraction from the memories? What is he doing by the phone? Perhaps waiting, or wanting to phone but lacking the courage. And why is he doing it downstairs? The third verse starts well, in my opinion. We don't have to know which came first. I like that he's wondering, and if he's wondering it was probably the bottle that came first. Mike Zaneski suggested this for a 3rd verse: now and then in his dreams much more real than ghostly their familiar sounds bring him back, but mostly The laughter of a child And the sighs of a wife Are remnants of a dream At the edge of his life I liked this when I first read it, and it might be something for Donna to consider I agree, Mike’s suggestion is good if for no other reason than it gives us more time with his memory, which is the central problem--he' s fighting the memories. But I still like "The bottle or the breakup, not clear what came first....and I think the next two lines can work too. I agree with most of the posters that the strongest lyric in the whole thing is: "The laughter of a child And the touch of a wife Are remnants of a dream At the edge of his life" That's really excellent. So I disagree that you have two songs going on or that the title should be developed more (although more about the lost family might be helpful unless you are trying to leave them out because he's trying not to think of them and this is sort of an inner monologue). I agree that "Whiskey Lullaby" is one of the best lyrics on the subject of alcohol ever written. And here's a radical suggestion: I think you have a strong story with or without the alcohol. I don't think this song is about drinking and I don't think you need to have an agenda and be clear about what it is. I think you're painting a story of an artist who lost his family and is trying to get through the night without being imprisoned in the regret that their memory brings. Alcohol is a natural to bring into the story, but I don't think you ever meant it to be about alcohol, True, it’s not about the alcohol as such – because he’s harming no one else, in fact he lives like a recluse – but it’s about the man and his pain. nor do you need to have any first or second-hand information to write a story with alcohol in it. But I do think you need to give us a clearer idea of where he lives, what he does and why he's doing what he's doing--especially when he's by the phone. That would surely help me out. Yes, I take this point. Maybe you could mention some of the things he doesn't dare do, like look at anything in the room, however bare, because it still reminds him of her/them, etc. Of course, you would be specific. I was just saying what it could say not how you could say it. One place you need to say something that pulls our heartstrings is in the first two lines of the chorus. That has to be an emotional cry. It can't be a documentary. I agree completely. I’d already had uncertainties about the lyric (hence I posted it), and all the tremendous input has confirmed that a lot of revision is necessary. I now have a much clearer idea about what works and what needs restructuring. Change a few of these things and see if you don't have people scrambling to write the melody. I'll do the former and hope for the latter. $\:\)$ Again, thank you for your comprehensive critique. I'll prepare and post the "story" behind the lyric shortly. UPDATE: The lyric is a true story. I knew the person. He was a sweet man, kind of a sad case. More years ago than I care to remember, I was living in a boarding house in Toronto while working a summer job before my last year of high school (my home was about 500 miles north, "in the bush"). This guy, whose name I forget (think he was about 45 or so, but of course that age seemed "old" to someone who was 17), had a room next to mine. Mainly I only ever heard him staggering up the stairs, but now and again our paths would cross in the kitchen, and he would tell me a little about himself. I'll never forget one day him saying, with tears in his eyes, that his daughter was getting married that weekend, and he hadn't been invited to the wedding. Funny how some things stay with you, eh? Over the years, I often wondered what became of him... I suppose my being the "observer" of events has contributed to creating the distance that many of you commented upon. Sometimes I'd be in the living room area of the ground floor, which was separated from the hallway by two curtains. Thus I was able to see him through the space between the curtains, and I'd hear him sing. He probably never realised he was being observed. He was a commercial artist and always did his work at the table in his small room. He often forgot to close the door to his room when he left the house (probably he was drunk) to deliver his work, and when I'd come up the stairs I could see the table with the sketch pads, pencils, paints and brushes on it. Someone asked whether he slept on a couch. Yes, he did. All the rooms only had couches. In fact, the old house had once been quite beautiful, something of a rambling mansion, but the owner I think lost heart after his wife was killed in an accident and a year or so later his only son (in his 20s) died after an allergic reaction to penicillin. The house was indeed dark and gloomy, though on a lovely, old tree-lined street. Looking back, I can see that all the people living there at the time were odd in one way or another. (Including myself. (-: ) Donna Edited by DonnaMarilyn (05/04/09 09:05 AM) _________________________ Honour the Earth. Without it, we'd be nowhere. Life is too important to take seriously. http://www.reverbnation.com/donnamarilynrichblend Guild of International Songwriters and Composers
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#717069 - 05/04/09 09:42 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: DonnaMarilyn]
Z. Mulls Z. Mulls Serious Contributor Registered: 01/11/07 Posts: 314	>>Someone asked whether he slept on a couch. Yes, he did. All the >>rooms only had couches. Talk about furniture ;-) _________________________ ZMULLS.COM My Soundclick 2007 Grand Prize Winner International Songwriting Competition Avatar Photo by Diana (used with permission)
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#717072 - 05/04/09 10:06 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: lucian]
DonnaMarilyn DonnaMarilyn Top 100 Poster Registered: 08/16/08 Posts: 3635 Loc: Netherlands	Lucian wrote: The biggest issue with this song is that it's written in the 3rd person as a kind of mini-novella, but what the actual relationship the singer has to the drunk is never established, therefore there is none. So how could a singer sing this song with any emotion when there is no relationship between him/herself and the subject of the song? I take your point here, Lucian. Thank you for highlighting this aspect for me. As you now know (if you've read my update), I was the "observer" of the scenario, so there was no "relationship" as such. Perhaps the singer should be seen to play more an active role in the lyric. I'll need to get back to the drawing board on this. Donna _________________________ Honour the Earth. Without it, we'd be nowhere. Life is too important to take seriously. http://www.reverbnation.com/donnamarilynrichblend Guild of International Songwriters and Composers
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#717109 - 05/04/09 12:58 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: DonnaMarilyn]
Heidi Thompson Heidi Thompson Serious Contributor Registered: 04/23/07 Posts: 1867 Loc: NV	Hey guys, WOW! What a wonderfully informative and interesting thread. I know I'm chiming in late, but this is just too good to pass up. First, I want to comment on the "third person" idea. A few songs come to my mind that were written in the third person such as "Eleanor Rigby" and "Nature Boy." Both of them told a story about a person(s) and their life without seeming to play an active role. However, the lyrics painted very clear pictures of the message being conveyed, so the singer could feel the emotion well when performing them. Also, I totally got the concept of "memory police" to be that entity which would trap a person in his memories and that he was escaping from them by drinking. However for me, this concept could have been supported a teenie bit in order to make it clearer. But, just a teenie bit. I thought the writing had some extremely vivid and strong imagery. It just needs a bit of tweaking in the rhyme scheme so as to make it easier to sing. But, there were so many great critiques that I'd just be repeating them were I to continue. Great thread sewn with multiple viewpoints and insights. It's a gem. Heidi _________________________ "And, in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." Paul McCartney
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#717159 - 05/04/09 04:39 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: lucian]
Michael Zaneski Michael Zaneski Top 100 Poster Registered: 07/30/06 Posts: 3101 Loc: California	Originally Posted By: lucian Donna, The biggest issue with this song is that it's written in the 3rd person as a kind of mini-novella, but what the actual relationship the singer has to the drunk is never established, therefore there is none. So how could a singer sing this song with any emotion when there is no relationship between him/herself and the subject of the song? Hi Donna and Lucian, I totally disagree with this. There are lots of examples of "third person omniscient yet compassionate POV" songs out there, weaving intricate portraits, with no connection whatsoever between the narrator and the subject. Many are in the domain of singer-songwriters. John Prine immediately comes to mind. One need not know the relationship of the narrator/singer to the subject, imo. In fact, I think the "omniscience" is lost that way, and the singer becomes "just another person with baggage" that a listener must figure out and filter, to finally understand the song. The way Donna writes it, we get past the narrator swiftly, and look at the subject trustingly through the narrator's omniscient, compassionate eyes. At least that's how it hits me. $\:\)$ Also "singing a song with emotion" is a non-issue for me. Rather, conveying something that a listener can connect with, and possibly find of value, be it emotional or otherwise. Many songs get to this place sung rather...unemotionally, because the emotion there in the simple telling of the story, in conveying the information as transparently as possible... Best wishes, Mike Edited by Michael Zaneski (05/04/09 04:52 PM) _________________________ Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice Fortune depends on the tone of your voice -The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon) from the song "Songs of Love" from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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#717166 - 05/04/09 04:54 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Michael Zaneski]
DonnaMarilyn DonnaMarilyn Top 100 Poster Registered: 08/16/08 Posts: 3635 Loc: Netherlands	I appreciate this perception, Mike. $\:\)$ I'd worried about whether there was too much distance, but I felt that to insert myself actively into the story wouldn't have been a natural thing to do, since it didn't happen in reality. I was simply an observer of the man's pain, and it stayed with me all these years. I must say, there's so much informative and valuable feedback in this thread that it's going to take me days to assimilate it all and to determine what to KOS. $\:D$ Donna _________________________ Honour the Earth. Without it, we'd be nowhere. Life is too important to take seriously. http://www.reverbnation.com/donnamarilynrichblend Guild of International Songwriters and Composers
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#717169 - 05/04/09 05:05 PM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Heidi Thompson]
DonnaMarilyn DonnaMarilyn Top 100 Poster Registered: 08/16/08 Posts: 3635 Loc: Netherlands	Heidi, thank you for dropping in to comment. I'll definitely be looking at some of the rhymes, which were mentioned by others as well. I'm pleased you enjoyed some of the imagery. (-: I think the jury is still out on whether the memory police should be keeping the memories out or in. My intention was originally that he drank because he could then better enjoy the memories. He didn't want to forget. But I entirely get that the listener shouldn't need to have to stop and wonder what I meant... Especially since it's perhaps more usual for a person to drink to escape memories... I'll need to give this aspect more thought. Donna _________________________ Honour the Earth. Without it, we'd be nowhere. Life is too important to take seriously. http://www.reverbnation.com/donnamarilynrichblend Guild of International Songwriters and Composers
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#717400 - 05/05/09 07:34 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Frank N Furter]
DonnaMarilyn DonnaMarilyn Top 100 Poster Registered: 08/16/08 Posts: 3635 Loc: Netherlands	Thank you for being the first, Frank. (-: I'm glad you like the hook, and I appreciate your observation about whether he's alone in the house. He wasn't. There were other lodgers. He lived on the third floor, and the house - which had once been lovely - was beginning to get run down. Donna _________________________ Honour the Earth. Without it, we'd be nowhere. Life is too important to take seriously. http://www.reverbnation.com/donnamarilynrichblend Guild of International Songwriters and Composers
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#717401 - 05/05/09 07:39 AM Re: Week 51 MP3/Lyric Pick: "The Memory Police" [Re: Douglas Murphy]
DonnaMarilyn DonnaMarilyn Top 100 Poster Registered: 08/16/08 Posts: 3635 Loc: Netherlands	Thanks for this useful feedback, Doug. (-: I'll look again at the rhyming pattern and at how I can structure a more compelling focus in the chorus. Thank you for the kind comments about verse 2, the bridge, and verse 3. Donna Rhyming pattern, or lack of one, makes it hard to follow/read and does not generate a flow that the reader can ‘sing’ to. I can see the ‘character’ and see his situation but I cannot share in it because there is not a consistent pattern. (room/house/home // worse/table/chair // brush/hair…) Chorus Ten years divorced Still rigid with the shock He clutches Johnny Walker to his chest Maybe he hopes the bottle will block The memory police from making an arrest The chorus fails to create the focal point, to crystallize the whole point of the characters dilemma. Reads more like a shorter verse IMO. “The Memory Police” Interesting hook but not very powerful and not much of a hook that would describe the characters’ woes. (v2) Creating beauty For a modest fee He's a freelance artist With an alcohol need Enough just to get him Through a dark winter night When the past creeps in And turns on the light Strongest part of the song so far. Check out the pattern you have set up. Flows off the tongue making it easier to sing. Also the picture you create of your character brings him to life IMO. This is great! Bridge He goes downstairs to sit by the phone Drinks from the bottle when he thinks he’s alone Sometimes he sings ...But the phone never rings Interesting. You feel a little more for the character, and that is always good if you can get the reader/listener/ singer to ‘feel’ the pain as it were. (v3) The bottle or the breakup Not clear what came first Once he hungered for love Now he lives for his thirst The laughter of a child And the touch of a wife Are remnants of a dream At the edge of his life (Chorus) This also works so well. The pattern is continued and so is more of the character’s story. Very strong. All in all right now there are ‘gaps’ that hurt the overall feel of the lyric. IMO if you build on the stronger points, and develop the chorus so that it ties everything in, you are going to have something here. © D.Devine 2008 [/quote] _________________________ Honour the Earth. Without it, we'd be nowhere. Life is too important to take seriously. http://www.reverbnation.com/donnamarilynrichblend Guild of International Songwriters and Composers
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