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#660653 - 10/18/08 01:56 AM Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing"
Brian Austin Whitney Administrator
Bard of the Boards


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
Hi Folks,

This week's pick by Harriet Schock for the Mentor Critique is Mark Kaufman's "One True Thing." She will be posting her critique on Tuesday, so starting now we'd like to get all of your critiques on this. Remember, lyrics/mp3's are not chosen on what is best or worst, but rather what will make for an interesting educational discussion of what was done well, what can be improved and basic building blocks for writing strong lyrics and songs. Please jump in and then once Harriet posts, see if you noticed the same points.

Thanks again to Harriet and everyone who has already participated. If you didn't get chosen (or didn't enter) and would still like a Professional Critique by Harriet Schock, or take a class in person or one of her on-line courses, please check her website at http://www.harrietschock.com.

For now, let's hear your thoughts on Mark's entry! Remember that Mark should not post a response until AFTER Harriet posts her critique.
--------------------------------------
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6959884

One True Thing

Salesman came on my TV
With a new brand of justice
He said everything’s changed, nothing’s the same
You’ll just have to trust us
If you think with your heart they tear you apart
It’s a dangerous war
Every man that we find will be guilty
We can’t let them speak anymore

Is there one true thing in all the tales you tell me?
One true thing, could be anything, in all that you say?
One true thing in all the words you've spoken
Is there a promise unbroken?
One true thing that you can tell me today
Before we take you away?

One thing I know
Every man has a story
We can cover our fears
In a blanket of glory
There is always a love to be found
Still you say it isn’t so
Will you answer one question before you go?

Is there one true thing in all the tales you tell me?
One true thing, anything, in all that you say?
One true thing in all the words you've spoken
One promise unbroken?
One true thing you can tell me today
Before we take you away?

So I wandered for years
On a carpet of lies
Through the walls of the prisons
Hear the screams and the cries
Listen to me, listen to me
Won’t you listen to me
If we lock our own souls into cages
How can we be free?

Is there one true thing in all the tales you tell me?
One true thing, anything, in all that you say?
One true thing in all the words you've spoken
One promise unbroken?
One true thing you can tell me today
Before we take you away?

(Copyright 2008 by Mark Kaufman)
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney



Top
#660695 - 10/18/08 08:02 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
Mark Schuessler
Serious Contributor


Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 672
Loc: Lockport, NY, USA
Mark:

I think this is a fantastic song. Here's my breakdown:

Title
-----
It's a good title. Would it stand out in a list of 100 song titles? I think it might because it immediately makes you wonder what it means. It's intriguing. It was used as the title of a movie some years back, so they obviously thought it was a pretty good title, too. Also, it is the hub that ties together everything in the song. So far, so good.

Music
-----
Top notch. Love it. Great reggae groove, great bass, great percussion, great effects, great guitar with the vibrato and all. Every part fits beautifully and seamlessly. Even as an instrumental this song works. Best of all, with everything going on musically it still fades nicely into the background to let the vocals take over.

Verse Melody
------------
Simple, catchy, interesting...but it doesn't distract the listener from the storytelling. Perfect.

Chorus Melody
-------------
Excellent hook. I love the way the first line has some longer notes while the second line has a series of shorter, choppier notes to break things up. The melody of the chorus is catchy throughout and starts and ends definitively to set the chorus apart from the verse. The hook has stuck in my head, too. (I listened to this at work earlier in the week and it has stayed with me.)

Verse Lyrics
------------
The verse lyrics are excellent throughout. They tell the story and there are some fantastic lines...like:

If you think with your heart they tear you apart
It's a dangerous war

We can cover our fears
In a blanket of glory

...and especially:

If we lock our own souls into cages
How can we be free?

Also, these lines absolutely jump to life when you sing them:

Listen to me, listen to me
Won't you listen to me

My only nits here are the first line and the format of the second verse. I think the first line grabs you into the song, but I wonder if the word "salesman" might throw people, at least initially. The end of the second verse seems a little different than the end of the other verses. On the page there is one less line in the lyrics. It still works, but that might be an area to look at again.

Chorus Lyrics
-------------
Everything is good here. It does what the chorus should do: it gives the meaning of the song in a way that stays with you. I even like the way the last line, "Before we take you away", signals the end of the chorus.

Story Arc
---------
Verse 1 starts at the beginning of the "story", when the lies started and the justification for them was made. Even though no names are mentioned, it is obvious by the end of the first verse who the song is about.

Verse 2 questions the sales pitch given in verse 1.

Verse 3 gives an example of the lies: torture.

The "Nut"
---------
What message does the listener take from this song? The Bush administration has done nothing but lie to the people. I think the song gets this message across very effectively without ever mentioning names or places.

Bottom Line
-----------
Songs with a political message are risky but such songs can also be very effective at presenting a message, since songs can touch people emotionally in a way that a political essay never could. This song works, partly because it is so beautifully crafted and produced, but also because it is heartfelt and sincere. Bottom line: Excellent song!

Mark


Edited by Mark Schuessler (10/18/08 08:14 AM)
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#660839 - 10/18/08 04:58 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Mark Schuessler]
Kristi McKeever
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 05/02/07
Posts: 3190
Loc: USA
Mark,

Well, okay, I’ll admit that I don’t know if this is a political song or not. If it is, I’m in trouble cuz I don’t do well with those things! But in the interest of critiquing/offering a response, here goes. I like the mix of statements and questions asked by the narrator, they balance each other nicely. The listener is going to take whatever he/she relates to from it and I think this would appeal to many people since it comes from the thoughts of one man and his questions about honesty and integrity, which reach to the heart of most people. “One True Thing” is universal and a solid hook, imo.

I know I am missing some of the nuances of the lyric because the point of view is not what I expected at certain points in the story (mind you, I’m not thinking politics first time through). Specifically, the POV in the last two lines of V1 and the last line in the chorus: “before we take you away.” I like the salesman angle, but since he’s on TV and not there in person, I’m not sure how that relates to him being taken away.

The structure and repetition of the hook is set up well to bring the message across. And the music is very cool sounding and appealing also…I like it a lot.

I’ll be curious to see what Harriet has to say…good luck with it!

Kristi
_________________________
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#661108 - 10/19/08 04:09 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Kristi McKeever]
Jean Bullock
Top 10 Poster


Registered: 09/18/01
Posts: 10244
Loc: Anaheim, CA, USA
Only time for a quick one, this time. Mark S has summed up pretty much what I thought about the music. Very well done, although the grace note on the word say wasn't working for me.

The lyrics are ambiguous enough to fit a lot of situations, which is cool, but I did have a problem with knowing who was speaking. Is it the "salesman" or is it the singer? Perhaps a change of case in the chorus would help.

Nicely, done, Mark. I enjoyed listening to it.
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#661136 - 10/19/08 06:20 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Jean Bullock]
Ricki E. Bellos
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 3817
Loc: Wisconsin
Hi Mark,

Well, excuse me all over the place. I did not put this song into the context of current events. I must not have much of an imagination. What I do know is that someone is trying to sell a cowfull of lies in V1 and the chorus is questioning those lies. V2 is the singer's plea for tolerance and love where there is none, and V3 is the singer's cry for freedom. Generally speaking, this can be an indictment of any administration, in any country. The use of reggae is a stroke of genius, as we all know how powerful the music of Bob Marley was/is.
Musically, it sounded great to me, instrumentally, the harmonies, everything worked very well together.
Over on the mp3 forum, I commented that this was very confusing lyrically. After listening more, I don't know if you should dumb it down for the unaware listener, such as myself, or raise the listener's consciousness to think a little deeper. Personally I think it's just fine the way it is.

Ricki

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#661199 - 10/19/08 11:28 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Ricki E. Bellos]
Samuel Harris
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 3618
Loc: Burleson, Texas
This song has the same title as the Novel by Anna Quindlan and the Meryl Streep,Renee Zellweger movie "One True Thing" but I don't think it inspired this song. When I responded to this song on the Lyric 3 forum, I told Mark I didn't have a clue as to what he was talking about but when I look at it more carefully, it seems to be about or current administration. I think this song was inspired by politics, and informed by the Rolling Stone's song "Satisfaction" (lyrics), and Pink Floyd's "Money" (music)

Rolling Stones:
"When I'm watchin' my TV
and a man comes on to tell me
how white my shirts can be.
Well he can't be a man 'cause he doesn't smoke
the same cigarrettes as me."
(Stones are singing about advertisement lies)

Mark:
Salesman came on my TV
With a new brand of justice
He said everything’s changed, nothing’s the same
You’ll just have to trust us (Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld?)
If you think with your heart they tear you apart
It’s a dangerous war (don't bother to think at all- we will handle this)
Every man that we find will be guilty
We can’t let them speak anymore (Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib?)
(Mark upped the stakes-the lies are dangerous political ones and the salesmen are the men in power)


Is there one true thing in all the tales you tell me? (complete loss of confidence in national leadership)
One true thing, could be anything, in all that you say?
One true thing in all the words you've spoken
Is there a promise unbroken? ( a little forced I think)
One true thing that you can tell me today
Before we take you away? (Are you talking about impeachment?- otherwise this doesn't make any sense to me)

It is in the chorus that my attention wanders. You need some kind of hook working here. That "Justice- trust us" rhyme for instance. This is where you need to kick us in the gut with your point.

One thing I know
Every man has a story (even our enemies)
We can cover our fears
In a blanket of glory (I think "flag" is the blanket)
There is always a love to be found (No "enemy" is ever completely evil)
Still you say it isn’t so
Will you answer one question before you go?

So I wandered for years
On a carpet of lies ( I think he is saying he was duped)
Through the walls of the prisons
Hear the screams and the cries ( I interpret this as meaning he began to understand that our government was not innocent)
Listen to me, listen to me
Won’t you listen to me
If we lock our own souls into cages
How can we be free? (A rigid mindset is in fact a prison)


I know Mark is familiar with the classic rock tunes so is it art when he "borrows" from that genre? Yes, I think it is. That is part of the creative process. He is saying something contemporary using the familiar.
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#661200 - 10/19/08 11:32 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Ricki E. Bellos]
Scott Campbell
Top 10 Poster


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 10861
Loc: Lakeland, FL, USA
Hey Mark:

Love the music and delivery of this!

Chorus really worked for me too - very powerful.

When I heard the first verse, I thought this was a farewell to President Bush. It might be I guess - but I seem to be interpreting everything in a political context lately, so I can't be sure. \:\)

I thought verse 1 set the tone very well - then I kind of lost it after that. I seem to be the kind of listener who either needs strong imagery or a concrete chain of events.

I think of a song like American Pie - every line in it can be given an interpretation related to the history of rock and roll. But before I even knew that, it worked for me just because of the imagery and story lines.

If this song IS what I think it's about, I can go through it line by line and give it an interpretation that makes sense - but I kinda have to really work at it. Unlike American Pie though, I can't make this one work for me without an interpretation.

As it is, I think this would work really well in a documentary where the viewer has a story on the screen to follow - this would probably really resonate with me in that situation. As a stand-along song though I'm not getting that punch to the gut....

I dunno - just one opinion here. See what others have to say. Even if it isn't about President Bush, if it was mine, I'd be tempted to take it in that direction with some more concrete imagery or stories.

Musically, as I indicated above, it was a real treat for me. \:\)

Scott



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#661432 - 10/20/08 05:13 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
Kevin Emmrich Moderator
Top 20 Poster


Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 8632
Loc: Crozet, VA
First listen impression: (OK, I have heard this over in the mp3 section, but it's been a week or so). Classic Bob Marley type start with a little heavier guitar feel. Chorus stands out pretty well. It is just a cool little reggae song. However, it doesn't really do anything that separates itself from any of the other fine reggae songs out there. Therefore we have to look towards the lyrics for more inspiration.

OK, I just went back and read the comments above about the lyrics and I don't think I am going to add anything useful, so I just look forward towards Harriet's review.

Kevin
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#661546 - 10/21/08 03:40 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Kevin Emmrich]
Brian Austin Whitney Administrator
Bard of the Boards


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
Hey Folks,

Participation is way down this week. Before Harriet posts her response, I'd like to see more folks get involved.

Brian
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#661622 - 10/21/08 10:35 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
Samuel Harris
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 3618
Loc: Burleson, Texas
I don't know where everybody is this week. I know the economy is in the tank but did Sam's Club repo your computer?

I read through the comments and I don't get the reference to Bob Marley. I don't listen to a lot of reggae but it seems more obvious to me that this song was inspired (musically) by Pink Floyd. There are some vocal and rhythm similarities with Marley but Marley had that brass section sound and that muted, scratchy rhythm guitar driving the beat. We'll ask Mark but, but if he wasn't thinking Pink Floyd, I'm a monkeys uncle.

Have a listen to Money: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hkjkTe5kZE
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#661632 - 10/21/08 11:09 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Samuel Harris]
Brenda152
Serious Contributor


Registered: 10/26/06
Posts: 840
Loc: San Antonio,TX USA
Hello, Mark!! Hard for me to critique your songs, I'm such a fan. Anyway, love the feel and the rockin' reggae mon! ;\) Very interesting lyric and some terrific lines (my favorites were already mentioned). Excellent chorus!! That line about "before we take you away", scares me a little. If you are singing to me...are you fixin' to lock me up? Ha! Verse one sounds that it is about government or the justice system, though why a salesman? (maybe salesmen are liars) he he. Now, verse two and three seem more about an untruthful lover. As always, a very interesting song to listen to!
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#661683 - 10/21/08 01:18 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Brenda152]
Caroline
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3262
Loc: Texas
Well, I think everyone is just having a hard time, like Brenda and myself.
I've listened, and listened, and I can't nit anything.

There may be a line or two that I would have written differently, but that wouldn't change anything about this song. It's well written, great sound, very nicely done, imo.
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#661777 - 10/21/08 08:33 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Caroline]
harriet schock Moderator
JPF Mentor


Registered: 12/01/01
Posts: 102
Loc: L.A., CA 90036


http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6959884

One True Thing

Salesman came on my TV
With a new brand of justice
He said everything's changed, nothing's the same
You'll just have to trust us
If you think with your heart they tear you apart
It's a dangerous war
Every man that we find will be guilty
We can't let them speak anymore

Is there one true thing in all the tales you tell me?
One true thing, could be anything, in all that you say?
One true thing in all the words you've spoken
Is there a promise unbroken?
One true thing that you can tell me today
Before we take you away?

One thing I know
Every man has a story
We can cover our fears
In a blanket of glory
There is always a love to be found
Still you say it isn't so
Will you answer one question before you go?

Is there one true thing in all the tales you tell me?
One true thing, anything, in all that you say?
One true thing in all the words you've spoken
One promise unbroken?
One true thing you can tell me today
Before we take you away?

So I wandered for years
On a carpet of lies
Through the walls of the prisons
Hear the screams and the cries
Listen to me, listen to me
Won’t you listen to me
If we lock our own souls into cages
How can we be free?

Is there one true thing in all the tales you tell me?
One true thing, anything, in all that you say?
One true thing in all the words you've spoken
One promise unbroken?
One true thing you can tell me today
Before we take you away?

(Copyright 2008 by Mark Kaufman)


Mark Kaufman is obviously a very good songwriter. He's written lots of songs, had success, has a fan base, etc. This is a good thing. It's also somewhat dangerous in one respect. The danger of becoming successful in any art form is that a person can become convinced everything he says is communicating. This is true of filmmakers, songwriters, painters...everyone. There are so many people who love one's work, the creator stops surveying. It's to Mark's credit that he still posts on JPF to get feedback, because even though this song is excellent and could stand as it is, I think there are some clarity issues that, should they be addressed, the song could be that much stronger. The music works very well and serves the lyric perfectly as a Reggae tune.

The second possible problem is that this song is on a subject that so many people feel vehemently about, it could be even more unclear than it is, and people would embrace it simply because it agrees with something they feel passionate about. Assuming we're not all wrong and it is about the current president, it could have a pretty broad appeal. Bush is more unpopular, according to some polls I've heard, than Nixon was when he was impeached. So let's take a look at what I think is unclear. Let's imagine this is really happening.


The way I see it, the singer is watching TV and telling me, the listener, that someone comes on the TV selling something-- a new brand of justice. I love the rhyme with "trust us." So he's also selling the idea that no one can talk to this particular enemy, they're too dangerous and it's better to keep them quiet and assume they're all guilty. I think that's what he's saying. I could live with it even if I am wrong here. What I have trouble with is the next verse.

Suddenly the singer is either talking to the salesman now, with no preparation for us in that regard, or the salesman is still speaking, which I doubt. But the listener should be "you." No? Suddenly, even though in the first verse, the singer was telling me, the listener, ABOUT the salesman, he's now using "you." But he's not talking to me. He's talking to the person he was telling me about. This is really troublesome, unless we just get into the groove of Marley meets Sting and figure these little details don't matter since we get the general gist of what he's saying. I think it would be much stronger if it didn't have these illogical places. Here come some more: The last line of the chorus. Where are we taking the salesman? When Mark says "Before we take you away" it sounds like someone's being committed to an institution of some sort--either for the insane or for criminal behavior. There are many who would agree that this is warranted, but it hasn't happened so it's more than a bit confusing.

The second verse seems to be about the people our army is fighting. I can't make sense of it otherwise. Whether we agree with this hopeful if naive viewpoint, we still need to know for sure what it's about. Someone suggested the "blanket of glory" was a flag. Not sure how you cover your fears with a flag. Maybe metaphorically. It's all just too vague in this part for my taste. Others were also confused about who was speaking at different points, so that should definitely be cleared up, I think. I agree with Ricki that it shouldn't be dumbed down, but I also agree with Scott that more concrete imagery that doesn't depend upon our understanding the metaphor would be welcome.

The last verse doesn't work literally for me. Starting with "so" indicates that it happened after the rest of the song so the song now doesn't take place in one moment looking forward and back, but it travels in time. This is very dangerous for a song to do. It breaks the verisimilitude of the listener watching the singer tell us a story that is happening now. What's happening now is the singer is watching the "salesman" on TV. If the last verse started with "I had wandered for years" instead of "So I wandered for years," the whole problem would go away. So I suggest Mark do that. He would have to change "hear" to "heard." Not sure what the prisons represent, since the singer seems to have wandered them for years. I'm sure I'll hit my head like in the V-8 commercials when Mark finally tells us what's going on, but are the prisoners screaming "listen to me"? Maybe we're all--including the singer--prisoners and the prisoners are screaming to be heard. Yep, I guess it does feel a bit like that when you have a government that doesn't seem to be listening. But we do have an election coming up. Some folks are still uninformed enough to be hopeful. I like to think I'm one of them. I purposely am resisting reading "Rule by Secrecy," although I know all about it. Once you know who's really playing the game, it's not fun anymore.

But writing songs still is. And this is a good one. I hope Mark will let us know how he feels about all this now.
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#661782 - 10/21/08 09:11 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: harriet schock]
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
Thank you Harriet and everyone else! I have to run right now and will come back later with some 'splainin' to do. But meanwhile I'll let you ponder this version I wrote last week in an attempt to be just a wee bit clearer. But I promise to cover all bases, and maybe we can all write this one together! \:\)

-Mark

One True Thing

Salesman came on my TV
With a new brand of justice
He said "Everything's changed, nothing's the same
You'll just have to trust us
If you think with your heart they tear you apart
It's a dangerous war"
He said "All that we find will be guilty
We can't let them speak anymore"

Is there one true thing in all the tales you tell me?
One true thing, could be anything, in all that you say?
One true thing in all the words you've spoken
Is there a promise unbroken?
One true thing that you can tell me today
Before we send you away?

One thing I know
Every man has a story
But that Salesman he spins all our fear
Into star-spangled glory
There is always a love to be found
Still he swears it isn't so
Let me ask him one question before he goes

Is there one true thing in all the tales you tell me?
One true thing, could be anything, in all that you say?
One true thing in all the words you've spoken
Is there a promise unbroken?
One true thing that you can tell me today
Before we send you away?

Salesman he broadcast for years
Selling torture and lies
Through the walls of the prisons
Hear the screams and the cries
We have canceled his show
And with nowhere to go
He has swallowed the key
But if we lock our own souls into cages
How can we be free?

Is there one true thing in all the tales you tell me?
One true thing, could be anything, in all that you say?
One true thing in all the words you've spoken
Is there a promise unbroken?
One true thing that you can tell me today
Before we send you away?

(Copyright 2008 by Mark Kaufman)
_________________________
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman

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#661791 - 10/21/08 09:50 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Mark Kaufman]
harriet schock Moderator
JPF Mentor


Registered: 12/01/01
Posts: 102
Loc: L.A., CA 90036
Wow! You solved the problems I had with it before you even saw my critique. You're either psychic or I'm unnecessary. Either way, I like this version much better! But get to 'splainin' 'cause we're bound to discover even more that way.
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#661802 - 10/22/08 01:31 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: harriet schock]
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
Okay, it's Splainin' Time. \:\)



Let me start here and work my way back:

Quote:
Mark Kaufman is obviously a very good songwriter. He's written lots of songs, had success, has a fan base, etc. This is a good thing. It's also somewhat dangerous in one respect. The danger of becoming successful in any art form is that a person can become convinced everything he says is communicating. This is true of filmmakers, songwriters, painters...everyone. There are so many people who love one's work, the creator stops surveying. It's to Mark's credit that he still posts on JPF to get feedback, because even though this song is excellent and could stand as it is, I think there are some clarity issues that, should they be addressed, the song could be that much stronger.


Well I just about fell out of my chair there. First it was so gratifying to hear you think I'm a good songwriter. Hey, no apologies for loving to hear that...that just feels really good. Thank you! Then I started cracking up about the part about the success and the fan base. I was thinking, what success? What fan base? But then I realized, well, okay, she's right...I have a few songs that have been signed, and that's success. And there really are some people who tell me they're fans. So, come to think of it...that IS success.

It just doesn't happen to involve any money. \:o

Anyway, I absolutely agree about the danger of being convinced you are communicating...in my case, it really doesn't have to do with any success. I started learning this because of NO success...in fact, I started learning it here at JPF last year. See, just about ALL of my older songs were pretty much incomprehensible. They sounded good, but even I didn't know what they meant, line by line. I was raised in the vague style of 60's and 70's rock, skipping the light fandango and all that jazz. Lyrics were just another instrument there to make songs sound cool and set the mind free to dream.

For the last year I've been striving for clarity in lyrics. But while recording this one, I was in a hurry and wrote these lyrics as quickly as I could because I wanted to hear something sung. This sort of impatience has always gnawed at me when it comes to recording...I'm VERY patient anywhere else, but when I have the opportunity to record something, I rush. I knew as soon as I wrote it that it would need to be clarified, because my intentions aren't really vague. It's about America and torture.

Now, this song came about after watching a documentary of Joe Strummer of the Clash, when his song "Get Down Moses" ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weH4H85MQpE ) got stuck in my head and reminded me how much I really wanted to try a reggae song. And I immediately realized that a reggae song is a great vehicle for protest and politics. I've been deeply troubled about Abu Graib, Guantanamo Bay, the whole idea of suspending habeas corpus and holding people indefinitely without charge and without end...and worst of all, realizing that we torture people now.

Here's my intention with that first set of lyrics:

The salesman is the politician--in this case Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld--who really does sell the public on any particular agenda. They come on TV and make their case and they convince us. The new brand of justice they were selling was all the strong steps we needed to deal with terrorists...the old American justice was too weak and ineffective...we need to embrace the idea that they are guilty before proven innocent, otherwise they will endanger us all.

The chorus is me, or Everyman, asking if ANY of it was true. Yes, I'm just blasting away at the Bush Administration. I'm angry and outraged, and that's the point. Before we "take" you away...that was originally "send", as in getting voted out of office. But I ended up singing "take" because it sounded like an incarceration, or a judgment after trial...and because it was kind of ominous and spooky at that point in the music. Clarity fell away there in favor of a cool sound...old habit.

Verses 2 and 3 just suck...they still do. They SOUND cool, and even give an impression of expressing deeper truths...but they don't.

2nd verse means that people aren't good or evil...they have stories, backstories, reasons, motivations. It's easy to call someone else evil, but we are all the heroes of our own personal stories, and we are all motivated by something we think is good. When Americans think of terrorists, they think of one dimensional evil beings

that no longer can be regarded as human...they are simply dangerous and must be destroyed like vermin. This sort of talk is often regarded as bleedingheart liberalism...but I'm not saying we should all hold hands and sing. What I'm saying is that the politicians play on our natural fear and wrap it up in stars and stripes and patriotism and glory in order to achieve political goals with the public's endorsement. And I say there IS a love to be found, and a dialog to be had...and the politicians vehemently disagree. I'm saying that this is basically an abandonment of our own humanity, the same humanity that brought about habeas corpus and the Geneva conventions.

Verse 3 is me saying the past eight years has been filled with lies, and now we have prisons in which we are torturing people...in order to protect ourselves. And I'm trying to grab SOME sort of lapels with those "listen to mes", whether it's my voice or a prisoner's, saying that if we lock away our humanity in the cause of freedom...well, you get it.

Whew. See, that's a lot of ground to cover in three verses and a chorus. Vagueness sometimes creeps in when I'm shooting for a sort of universality. But Harriet, you're right about communication and its importance. I sort of WISH you were right about so many people loving my work that my mind gets clouded by it...but the truth is that I usually listen to my own nagging inner voice, the one that tells me it sucks. It's not there. I gave up too soon, and this song might fool some folks, but it doesn't fool me: it's lame. I think we all have that voice...only these days I kind of like it. It keeps me trying harder.

Anyway. THANK YOU for a great critique, and for reading this overlong post. The second version is clearer...but it still sucks.

-Mark

I'll come back and answer these posts in a bit. \:\)
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#661808 - 10/22/08 02:05 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Mark Schuessler]
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
Originally Posted By: Mark Schuessler
Mark:

I think this is a fantastic song. Here's my breakdown:

Title
-----
It's a good title. Would it stand out in a list of 100 song titles? I think it might because it immediately makes you wonder what it means. It's intriguing. It was used as the title of a movie some years back, so they obviously thought it was a pretty good title, too. Also, it is the hub that ties together everything in the song. So far, so good.

Music
-----
Top notch. Love it. Great reggae groove, great bass, great percussion, great effects, great guitar with the vibrato and all. Every part fits beautifully and seamlessly. Even as an instrumental this song works. Best of all, with everything going on musically it still fades nicely into the background to let the vocals take over.

Verse Melody
------------
Simple, catchy, interesting...but it doesn't distract the listener from the storytelling. Perfect.

Chorus Melody
-------------
Excellent hook. I love the way the first line has some longer notes while the second line has a series of shorter, choppier notes to break things up. The melody of the chorus is catchy throughout and starts and ends definitively to set the chorus apart from the verse. The hook has stuck in my head, too. (I listened to this at work earlier in the week and it has stayed with me.)

Verse Lyrics
------------
The verse lyrics are excellent throughout. They tell the story and there are some fantastic lines...like:

If you think with your heart they tear you apart
It's a dangerous war

We can cover our fears
In a blanket of glory

...and especially:

If we lock our own souls into cages
How can we be free?

Also, these lines absolutely jump to life when you sing them:

Listen to me, listen to me
Won't you listen to me

My only nits here are the first line and the format of the second verse. I think the first line grabs you into the song, but I wonder if the word "salesman" might throw people, at least initially. The end of the second verse seems a little different than the end of the other verses. On the page there is one less line in the lyrics. It still works, but that might be an area to look at again.

Chorus Lyrics
-------------
Everything is good here. It does what the chorus should do: it gives the meaning of the song in a way that stays with you. I even like the way the last line, "Before we take you away", signals the end of the chorus.

Story Arc
---------
Verse 1 starts at the beginning of the "story", when the lies started and the justification for them was made. Even though no names are mentioned, it is obvious by the end of the first verse who the song is about.

Verse 2 questions the sales pitch given in verse 1.

Verse 3 gives an example of the lies: torture.

The "Nut"
---------
What message does the listener take from this song? The Bush administration has done nothing but lie to the people. I think the song gets this message across very effectively without ever mentioning names or places.

Bottom Line
-----------
Songs with a political message are risky but such songs can also be very effective at presenting a message, since songs can touch people emotionally in a way that a political essay never could. This song works, partly because it is so beautifully crafted and produced, but also because it is heartfelt and sincere. Bottom line: Excellent song!

Mark

Yes, that danged title...



You like to think these things don't stick in your head...but after I wrote the lyrics, I googled the title. I do this a lot lately, especially if I think up a good hook, it's a quick way to find out if you were just forgetting something you already heard. I almost scrapped it when I saw this. But then I thought, well, we're not really after the same thing here, so what the heck.

Doesn't look like a very good movie. It looks like one of those All Star Cast Tries Really Hard With A Lousy Script movies.

Mark, thanks for giving voice to those compositional elements. Things like this
Quote:
the first line has some longer notes while the second line has a series of shorter, choppier notes
are what I compose in a very nonverbal environment. When I write melodies, chord patterns, basslines, I really don't think in terms of words or conversation. It's more like visualizing shapes and then drawing them. It's like sculpting or painting. It's not so much like "writing".

I think this is why we focus on lyrics in our critiques, because this composing thing is really difficult to describe using words. Listening to two guitar players work on a tune can be a funnylooking thing.

I really appreciate your critique because you tell me what things you just plain enjoyed, which is nice, but you also spend time analyzing a bit of WHY it works for you, and HOW, and then you also gave your interpretation of it all. And you got it...almost almost ALMOST made me think, hmm, maybe I'll just keep it as it is.

But the truth is, it's too confusing to most people, and if a song needs 'SPLAININ'....well, then that's something to consider.

Thanks Mark!
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#661809 - 10/22/08 02:18 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Kristi McKeever]
Mark Kaufman
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Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
Originally Posted By: Kristi McKeever
Mark,

Well, okay, I’ll admit that I don’t know if this is a political song or not. If it is, I’m in trouble cuz I don’t do well with those things! But in the interest of critiquing/offering a response, here goes. I like the mix of statements and questions asked by the narrator, they balance each other nicely. The listener is going to take whatever he/she relates to from it and I think this would appeal to many people since it comes from the thoughts of one man and his questions about honesty and integrity, which reach to the heart of most people. “One True Thing” is universal and a solid hook, imo.

I know I am missing some of the nuances of the lyric because the point of view is not what I expected at certain points in the story (mind you, I’m not thinking politics first time through). Specifically, the POV in the last two lines of V1 and the last line in the chorus: “before we take you away.” I like the salesman angle, but since he’s on TV and not there in person, I’m not sure how that relates to him being taken away.

The structure and repetition of the hook is set up well to bring the message across. And the music is very cool sounding and appealing also…I like it a lot.

I’ll be curious to see what Harriet has to say…good luck with it!

Kristi


Kristi always makes me think in a different way, so I sometimes call her "Coach". I find her viewpoint refreshing and very clear, which is a great alternative to what it's like inside my own head. Kristi, it was good for me to hear that you weren't even sure if I was being political or not. I knew before I posted this that it's vagueness would be it's biggest problem, but your post helped me see why, helped me see how this must sound to a new listener. I kept waffling between shooting for either clarity or a very well done series of universal statements to make a broader point. But I think being specific will work well for this one.

Although it's political, I think I'll keep names out of it.

Thanks again Kristi! \:\)

-Mark
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#661883 - 10/22/08 11:59 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Mark Kaufman]
Scott Campbell
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Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 10861
Loc: Lakeland, FL, USA
I really like your rewrite, Mark. Pretty clear to me now. In my opinion it's pretty close. One thing I wonder about - your suggested second verse is this:

One thing I know
Every man has a story
But that Salesman he spins all our fear
Into star-spangled glory
There is always a love to be found
Still he swears it isn't so
Let me ask him one question before he goes


I wonder if it would be better as:

Salesman he spins all our fear
Into star-spangled glory
But one thing I know
Every man has a story
There is always a love to be found
Still he swears it isn't so
Let me ask him one question before he goes

Seems to me to flow (in the ideas) a little better and has some more consistency with the other two verses. Whether it flows as nicely musically, I don't know. Just thinkin' out loud here - always dangerous \:\)

Scott

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#661897 - 10/22/08 01:02 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Scott Campbell]
Mark Kaufman
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Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
I owe you a beer! That works MUCH better.

I'll be back later, have to work right now.

Thanks Scott!
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#661975 - 10/22/08 07:47 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Jean Bullock]
Mark Kaufman
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Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
Originally Posted By: Jean Bullock
Only time for a quick one, this time. Mark S has summed up pretty much what I thought about the music. Very well done, although the grace note on the word say wasn't working for me.

The lyrics are ambiguous enough to fit a lot of situations, which is cool, but I did have a problem with knowing who was speaking. Is it the "salesman" or is it the singer? Perhaps a change of case in the chorus would help.

Nicely, done, Mark. I enjoyed listening to it.


Thanks Jean! I wonder if that second version works for you?
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#661977 - 10/22/08 07:53 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Ricki E. Bellos]
Mark Kaufman
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Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
Originally Posted By: Ricki E. Bellos
Hi Mark,

Well, excuse me all over the place. I did not put this song into the context of current events. I must not have much of an imagination. What I do know is that someone is trying to sell a cowfull of lies in V1 and the chorus is questioning those lies. V2 is the singer's plea for tolerance and love where there is none, and V3 is the singer's cry for freedom. Generally speaking, this can be an indictment of any administration, in any country. The use of reggae is a stroke of genius, as we all know how powerful the music of Bob Marley was/is.
Musically, it sounded great to me, instrumentally, the harmonies, everything worked very well together.
Over on the mp3 forum, I commented that this was very confusing lyrically. After listening more, I don't know if you should dumb it down for the unaware listener, such as myself, or raise the listener's consciousness to think a little deeper. Personally I think it's just fine the way it is.

Ricki


Yeah Ricki, you got what I meant. But I also get that it was hard to get what I had gotten...get it?

The more I think of it, I wouldn't be dumbing it down...I'd be smartening the lyrics so that the listener doesn't have to do research to figure them out. \:D

Thanks Ricki!

-mk
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#661979 - 10/22/08 08:02 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Samuel Harris]
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
Originally Posted By: Samuel (joe) Harris
This song has the same title as the Novel by Anna Quindlan and the Meryl Streep,Renee Zellweger movie "One True Thing" but I don't think it inspired this song. When I responded to this song on the Lyric 3 forum, I told Mark I didn't have a clue as to what he was talking about but when I look at it more carefully, it seems to be about or current administration. I think this song was inspired by politics, and informed by the Rolling Stone's song "Satisfaction" (lyrics), and Pink Floyd's "Money" (music)

Rolling Stones:
"When I'm watchin' my TV
and a man comes on to tell me
how white my shirts can be.
Well he can't be a man 'cause he doesn't smoke
the same cigarrettes as me."
(Stones are singing about advertisement lies)

Mark:
Salesman came on my TV
With a new brand of justice
He said everything’s changed, nothing’s the same
You’ll just have to trust us (Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld?)
If you think with your heart they tear you apart
It’s a dangerous war (don't bother to think at all- we will handle this)
Every man that we find will be guilty
We can’t let them speak anymore (Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib?)
(Mark upped the stakes-the lies are dangerous political ones and the salesmen are the men in power)


Is there one true thing in all the tales you tell me? (complete loss of confidence in national leadership)
One true thing, could be anything, in all that you say?
One true thing in all the words you've spoken
Is there a promise unbroken? ( a little forced I think)
One true thing that you can tell me today
Before we take you away? (Are you talking about impeachment?- otherwise this doesn't make any sense to me)

It is in the chorus that my attention wanders. You need some kind of hook working here. That "Justice- trust us" rhyme for instance. This is where you need to kick us in the gut with your point.

One thing I know
Every man has a story (even our enemies)
We can cover our fears
In a blanket of glory (I think "flag" is the blanket)
There is always a love to be found (No "enemy" is ever completely evil)
Still you say it isn’t so
Will you answer one question before you go?

So I wandered for years
On a carpet of lies ( I think he is saying he was duped)
Through the walls of the prisons
Hear the screams and the cries ( I interpret this as meaning he began to understand that our government was not innocent)
Listen to me, listen to me
Won’t you listen to me
If we lock our own souls into cages
How can we be free? (A rigid mindset is in fact a prison)


I know Mark is familiar with the classic rock tunes so is it art when he "borrows" from that genre? Yes, I think it is. That is part of the creative process. He is saying something contemporary using the familiar.


Joe,

That "Satisfaction" reference floored me...I've sung it many times, but didn't realize I was writing a similar beginning. Now, this one will probably floor you, or at least make you care more for a monkey, but Pink Floyd's "Money" never once crossed my mind while writing this. Yes, I definitely hear the strong similarity now, but I wasn't there in my head even once, not until it was mentioned on one of these boards. I was indeed thinking about Bob Marley, circa 1973 or so...listen to songs like "Rebel Music" or "Is This Love" and you'll hear a lot of what I did, and also what influenced Pink Floyd. I was also thinking about Dub Reggae and about Joe Strummer.

Well, again, you "got" the lyrics. But I shouldn't make it hard for people.

Thanks for the great critique. -Mark
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#661981 - 10/22/08 08:04 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Scott Campbell]
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
Originally Posted By: Scott Campbell
Hey Mark:

Love the music and delivery of this!

Chorus really worked for me too - very powerful.

When I heard the first verse, I thought this was a farewell to President Bush. It might be I guess - but I seem to be interpreting everything in a political context lately, so I can't be sure. \:\)

I thought verse 1 set the tone very well - then I kind of lost it after that. I seem to be the kind of listener who either needs strong imagery or a concrete chain of events.

I think of a song like American Pie - every line in it can be given an interpretation related to the history of rock and roll. But before I even knew that, it worked for me just because of the imagery and story lines.

If this song IS what I think it's about, I can go through it line by line and give it an interpretation that makes sense - but I kinda have to really work at it. Unlike American Pie though, I can't make this one work for me without an interpretation.

As it is, I think this would work really well in a documentary where the viewer has a story on the screen to follow - this would probably really resonate with me in that situation. As a stand-along song though I'm not getting that punch to the gut....

I dunno - just one opinion here. See what others have to say. Even if it isn't about President Bush, if it was mine, I'd be tempted to take it in that direction with some more concrete imagery or stories.

Musically, as I indicated above, it was a real treat for me. \:\)

Scott




Hey Scott,

Not much for me to add to the above other than that I agree with you. \:D And thanks for the inversion to that new verse...works much better.

Thanks!

-Mark
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#661983 - 10/22/08 08:06 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Kevin Emmrich]
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
Originally Posted By: Kevin Emmrich
First listen impression: (OK, I have heard this over in the mp3 section, but it's been a week or so). Classic Bob Marley type start with a little heavier guitar feel. Chorus stands out pretty well. It is just a cool little reggae song. However, it doesn't really do anything that separates itself from any of the other fine reggae songs out there. Therefore we have to look towards the lyrics for more inspiration.

OK, I just went back and read the comments above about the lyrics and I don't think I am going to add anything useful, so I just look forward towards Harriet's review.

Kevin


Yes, the lyrics need to make a song like this stand out. And I'm guessing when you first looked at them you wondered what half of it meant. \:D Hope the new version works...I should have it overdubbed this week.

Thanks Kevin!
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#661984 - 10/22/08 08:09 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Samuel Harris]
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
Originally Posted By: Samuel (joe) Harris
I don't know where everybody is this week. I know the economy is in the tank but did Sam's Club repo your computer?

I read through the comments and I don't get the reference to Bob Marley. I don't listen to a lot of reggae but it seems more obvious to me that this song was inspired (musically) by Pink Floyd. There are some vocal and rhythm similarities with Marley but Marley had that brass section sound and that muted, scratchy rhythm guitar driving the beat. We'll ask Mark but, but if he wasn't thinking Pink Floyd, I'm a monkeys uncle.

Have a listen to Money: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hkjkTe5kZE


You're a monkey's uncle. \:D

But I love "Money". It's a 7/4 rhythm...so is Frank Zappa's "Yellow Snow". ;\)
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#661985 - 10/22/08 08:10 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Brenda152]
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
Originally Posted By: Brenda152
Hello, Mark!! Hard for me to critique your songs, I'm such a fan. Anyway, love the feel and the rockin' reggae mon! ;\) Very interesting lyric and some terrific lines (my favorites were already mentioned). Excellent chorus!! That line about "before we take you away", scares me a little. If you are singing to me...are you fixin' to lock me up? Ha! Verse one sounds that it is about government or the justice system, though why a salesman? (maybe salesmen are liars) he he. Now, verse two and three seem more about an untruthful lover. As always, a very interesting song to listen to!

Hi Brenda!

Hope I answered your questions in that novel I wrote earlier on the thread...and mostly I hope the rewrite works for you. Thanks for the lovely words! -Mark
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#661988 - 10/22/08 08:24 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Caroline]
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
Originally Posted By: Caroline
Well, I think everyone is just having a hard time, like Brenda and myself.
I've listened, and listened, and I can't nit anything.

There may be a line or two that I would have written differently, but that wouldn't change anything about this song. It's well written, great sound, very nicely done, imo.


Hi Caroline,

Hmmm...you know, I bet you COULD have nit a few things. It's interesting to me how you heard this song and thought it was so good, while I thought it was fun but ultimately kinda lame.

Harriet PM'd me to tell me my rewrite did NOT suck...and then she added this gem of a quote: "The only thing worse than having no inner critic is having one that doesn't know when to be quiet." \:D I absolutely love that.

Thank you!

TO ALL: Thank you very much for your insights. I want to say that I'm both pleased and a little uneasy that so many of you expressed that you think well of my songwriting. If I can try to point out one interesting thing about that... I personally never wish to think too well of my own songwriting. I do like it, and I have plenty of confidence, so it's not a matter of self-deception or some personality disorder. It's just that what drives me to keep improving my songs is my own inner sense of dissatisfaction. It's never enough, and it could always be better. When I lose that sensibility, watch my writing start to circle the drain...

You are all heroes to me...because you Create.

Thanks!

-Mark
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#662060 - 10/23/08 05:05 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Mark Kaufman]
Lamorna
Serious Contributor


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 82
Loc: Ontario, Canada.
Hi Mark

I think the chorus (Not Marked) stands still it does not advance it's repetition to the hilt.

One True Thing Et -cetera Too much

The verse about prisons is much too deep for the average punter

I found it too complicated to sort out why not write in language we can understand, yes some will say clever writing, but It's too complicated , to know who is saying what?

It's also too preachy unless you are aiming it at some new
evangalist.
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Getting those songs to the right ears is the hardest part.

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#662119 - 10/23/08 11:19 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Lamorna]
Caroline
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3262
Loc: Texas
Well Mark,
The thing is, I probably could find something to nit pick about. The problem with that, imo, I'm not writing this song. It has music, it has a message that I understood the first time i read it, the first time I heard it. I happen to like this sound, style and feel. To me, I should only nit something if I feel I could help you to say it better or actually help in the progression of the story. So, knowing I have nothing here, I feel I could have said or written in a better way, I have no nits.

I do have my own inner critic, but I also have my own cheering section. The cheering section says, "not everyone will like everything I write, not everyone will want to listen. But, at least I wrote what I felt and heard instead of trying to conform to one structure, pattern, or genre." Personally, I feel when we get crits form other writers, we are always going to have so many say "you should have done this or that" why?? because they are writers too, they will have another way to say it. That's why listening, once there is mucic, and not following a lyric, is what I prefer to do, I listened to this, just as I would if it were on my radio. Not if I were going ot be the one to write it. IF I had heard something so out of place, I would have said so. But as is, without going back over the lyric, I would listen to it if it WERE on my radio.
I rewrite, and rewrite sometimes until I forgot the emotions that started the words being written to begin with.

OK, now I'm rambling, sorry...
_________________________
Caroline


http://www.myspace.com/carolineholder
http://www.soundclick.com/carolinewroteit

Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them! (Dove Dark Chocolate)

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#662139 - 10/23/08 12:27 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Caroline]
Brian Austin Whitney Administrator
Bard of the Boards


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
I've had some tell me off site that they didn't participate this week because the song was a political one. I guess that might explain it. But it misses the point of working on song craft. Who cares what the subject is.

Brian
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#662160 - 10/23/08 02:09 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
Caroline
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3262
Loc: Texas
Oh, so if you post a song with a content someone doesn't agree with, they won't give a crit on structure, melody and music?

If we all loved the same songs, and felt the same way, none of us would have any reason to be here, much less trying to write something, umm, different.
_________________________
Caroline


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http://www.soundclick.com/carolinewroteit

Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them! (Dove Dark Chocolate)

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#662166 - 10/23/08 02:43 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Caroline]
Mark Kaufman
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Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
They were protesting my protest... \:D
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#662178 - 10/23/08 03:29 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Mark Kaufman]
Brian Austin Whitney Administrator
Bard of the Boards


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
Apparently... I hadn't made the connection but I guess it makes some sense.. people are really edgy right now and almost everything turns to politics and when it does, people are polarized.

Ah well... hopefully by the next cycle after the election, we can get back on track.

Brian
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Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney



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#662225 - 10/23/08 06:01 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
I wasn't personally disappointed by the turnout, but I'm getting more and more disappointed to imagine that the opinion I expressed was enough to keep someone away. I'm with Caroline there...this forum is about critiquing songs, period. It would be so easy to do so without even having to mention where there is agreement or disagreement on the politics of the song. If your opinion was the complete opposite of mine, and you wrote your song, wouldn't you wonder if the method worked or not? And how does one write a protest song without expressing a conflicting opinion? Are protest songs off limits?

So I'm going to rattle my saber, just this once: If the politics expressed in my song was the only thing that kept any of you away, then you are either being so stubbornly partisan that you will not even discuss another opinion without having to argue or fight...or you're just plain chicken.

There. I feel better. On a thread like this, I would never engage in a political argument. I certainly outlined my political thoughts in my explanation of the lyric...but I would never get into heated debate about my rightness or wrongness, not on this thread.

Would you?
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#662231 - 10/23/08 06:16 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Mark Kaufman]
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
Rant over. ;\)

Next week's pick: "The Abortion Song".



\:D
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#662236 - 10/23/08 06:37 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Mark Kaufman]
Caroline
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3262
Loc: Texas
you ain't right! LOL
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Caroline


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#662258 - 10/23/08 07:53 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Caroline]
harriet schock Moderator
JPF Mentor


Registered: 12/01/01
Posts: 102
Loc: L.A., CA 90036
When I critiqued "How'd You Like To Eat That Confederate Flag," in an earlier critique, I mentioned how hard it is to write a song that could have the chance of changing someone's mind. I guess it's true that protest songs mostly preach to the choir. If you already agree with it, you are more likely to like it. But as professional or pre-professional songwriters, it's our duty to know the difference between a well written song on a subject we disagree with and a badly written song on a subject we agree with. I'd like to hear from some of the people who disagreed with the viewoint, just from the craft viewpoint, but I guess there aren't too many of them anyway.
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#662305 - 10/23/08 10:42 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: harriet schock]
Brian Austin Whitney Administrator
Bard of the Boards


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
Well.. we've had tussles over religious songs on here as well. I think people are so weary of this us-versus-them thing that perhaps they just felt like this was a good week to rake the leaves instead. It's not the entire reason for less participation. We've been having less and less the last few cycles. Hopefully we'll see it pick up as the air chills and people are inside even more than normal. I think this is the best educational program we have and I hope everyone involved will not only step back up but also recruit some friends to get involved. You're doing them a big favor.

Brian
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#662376 - 10/24/08 05:53 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
Caroline
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3262
Loc: Texas
Hey Brian,
I think you should require all newbies to post for 4 rounds. That way, they can really get good feedback, if their work is chosen, and they can get involved and get to know others. Of course, others will get to know them as well. Hmmm. Probably would be tough, to actually reuire it, but they should at least know it's here. I had no idea about it the first two months, then it took my thick skull another month or so to figure out what to do. LOL
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Caroline


http://www.myspace.com/carolineholder
http://www.soundclick.com/carolinewroteit

Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them! (Dove Dark Chocolate)

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#662407 - 10/24/08 09:46 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Caroline]
Brenda152
Serious Contributor


Registered: 10/26/06
Posts: 840
Loc: San Antonio,TX USA
Wow, I can't believe a political view point or bashing ;\) would detour writers from critiquing a song. If anything, I would think that writers (especially creative writers) would value our freedom to express our views on all subjects. Even when we don't agree. hmmm...I just find that odd. But then, I'm not all that political. I vote both Dem and Rep, depending on who I feel at the time will do the best job. Or at least focus on the issues that concern me.

Anyway, Mark, I do like your rewrite! I do like keeping lyrics at a point that they can fit different situations and interpretations too, though. ;\)

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#662408 - 10/24/08 09:51 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Brenda152]
Brenda152
Serious Contributor


Registered: 10/26/06
Posts: 840
Loc: San Antonio,TX USA
You know, I went back to the last mentor critique when my song was up and the same writers participated then as did this round with Mark's song. Maybe we just have a few regulars who participate?
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#662423 - 10/24/08 10:52 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Brenda152]
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
That's probably closer to the truth, unfortunately.

Maybe most of us are less interested in learning how to critique well than we are in getting one. Deep down, I guess that's true of me too. But this Mentor Forum is too valuable to ignore, and I learn more from participating here than I do anywhere else on the site. When I critique something here, I try to bring my best game...just saying "Great tune" doesn't fly. The better we get at critiquing someone else's song, the better our own judgment becomes regarding our own writing.
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http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman

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#662615 - 10/24/08 07:18 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Mark Kaufman]
Samuel Harris
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 3618
Loc: Burleson, Texas
Mark, when you revise you song, be sure to let us know. Maybe even put them side by side. I think Harriet analyzed it perfectly, articulating what I felt but couldn't put my finger on.
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"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein

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#662662 - 10/24/08 09:13 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Samuel Harris]
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
I hope to re-do the vocal this Wednesday.
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#662674 - 10/24/08 09:53 PM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Samuel Harris]
Beth G. Williams
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 6894
Loc: Massachusetts
Hey Mark, Brian, Harriet et. al.,

Thought I'd toss my two cents in on this...

First of all, I totally get the importance of this forum. I'm extremely remiss in not having taken full advantage of it thus far, and do appreciate all the time the participants put into it.

Having said that, the last couple of times when I did venture further than the chosen names, I found the songs to be fairly political in nature. The conversations became political as well.

So, with more than enough on my plate already, I opted for a raincheck.

Please know (Mark especially), a given political viewpoint would not deter me from getting involved with a song...what stopped me was the mere fact that they WERE political songs. To be honest, I am simply sick of hearing about politics...in songs, on the news, at the bus-stop, everywhere I turn.

Obviously, we are at a unique and worrisome point in our history (both at home and abroad ), and there is "just cause" for all of the political discussion. But at the same time, one of the many reasons I like to come to JPF is for some relative PEACE. I'm not opposed to contraversy, and I don't mind sharing jabs about this or that, but at this particular moment in time, I'm not going to go out of my way to look for it either. If I did, I would mosey over to the political forum Brian was good enough to establish.

Surely, some will think this approach is immature and/or irresponsible ....but I prefer to see it as just one of the several opinions posted here.

So anyhow Mark, I just wanted to be clear that it wasn't your particular political stance which steered me elsewhere this time...it was the content itself -- in the context of "where else do I need to direct my energies (musical and otherwise)?". Did I shortchange you...myself...by not looking past that and engaging in the critique discussion? Perhaps.

But like everybody else, I'm just doing the best I can....one day at a time.

Thanks for "listening"....and for the record, as time and circumstance allow, I do hope to get more involved in this particular arena.

Beth
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#662706 - 10/25/08 02:37 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Beth G. Williams]
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
You're such a good person, Beth. I think we're all sick of politics about now, aren't we? After reading this, I believe I will just go and kiss my daughters goodnight, hold my wife, and go to sleep.

Peace. \:\)
_________________________
http://www.soundclick.com/MarkKaufman

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#663387 - 10/28/08 08:12 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
Mike Caro Substudio
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 7782
Loc: NY
Hi

I'm way late too the party sorry, life has me basically freaking out \:\)

I think everything that needs to be said has been said on specific points. Harriet again keeps nailing things and continues to show her diverse insight and open mind.
Mark is such a talented guy everything he does is good. PS -Mark it's easier to speak when I'm not talking directly to you lol)
So it's often a question of tastes and if a song is doing something for you personally musically or lyrically. He's also a very "musical" person so it's easy to get caught up in certain aspects of his talents and not catch the other aspects.

I wanted to just say more about Mark's work in general than focusing on this particular song. But quickly for this song I thought it was well crafted & executed.
I didn't think it was too political really, the lyric had a universal way about it that was open ended enough. ANYONE can lie and mislead you.

For the music it was catchy and solid. I am not a reggae fan at all. Maybe for about
5 minutes and then I'm done \:\) I really should try to dig into it more.
But I'm that way with straight blues and anything that's in a traditional direct style.

Anyhow I think Mark you have just improved on everything you do in the time since you joined up here. Love your vocal and always tell you you would have been great in a band situation with me and my buddies.
I enjoy so much of your work, the only thing I would push on you a bit would be to
find a place where it all comes together. That don't make sense lol.. We all have different influences and incorporate all we have heard and felt musically in our work.

Not all the time but you will sometimes get into a certain style of song that comes from an influence then add to it and start to add the the things you would except from it. I do this same thing also & you are so diverse it's hard to pinpoint.
I try to mix them all together best I can within one song. It's like putting my own spin on something that's been done. It's so hard!!! For example I was always a Led Zeppelin freak but I have no songs that sound like Led Zeppelin. There influence sneaks in all over the place but in ways that are subtle. No "Lonely Is The Night" type of Billy Squire Song \:\) I love EWF but have no songs that sound like them, I'm actually disappointed by that \:\) But there influence is in me and it comes out in little places.

It's like to try to put all your influences and stuff into your own feel & groove.
And seem current! That's a biggie if your pitching as well.

It's so hard to explain, it's like I wanna say that riff or part or something reminded me of "this" but not that "song reminded me of this" ya know" \:\)

My song Orphanology is a direct take of the Paperback Writer riff, then I do stuff in it that really gets away from the Beatles. Then I sneak a little back in. But I have played that song for so many people Totally expecting them to say dude my God that's so Beatles.. I hold my breathe and ya know what? Nobody ever says it. 19 out of 20.. I even tell them and then there like oh yeah!

Anyway this is just you & me talking shop \:\) I'm so glad you're here with us.
Your a great guy and you have my TOTAL respect musically. You make into my imaginary band anytime in a heart beat!!! \:\)

We have to do a phone chat someday, we will laugh bro!
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Thanks!
Peace Mike
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#663388 - 10/28/08 08:21 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Mike Caro Substudio]
Jean Bullock
Top 10 Poster


Registered: 09/18/01
Posts: 10244
Loc: Anaheim, CA, USA
Yes, Mark. The second version takes care of my nit. \:\)
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#663391 - 10/28/08 08:39 AM Re: Week 41 MP3/Lyric Pick: "One True Thing" [Re: Mark Kaufman]
Beth G. Williams
Top 100 Poster


Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 6894
Loc: Massachusetts
Hi Mark,

Just wanted to thank you for hearing me out and not taking offense. And then to call me a good person, to boot! Well, that was just swell.

I'm glad I gave an extra reason to snuggle with your family. \:\)

Peace,
Beth
_________________________
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