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#659014 - 10/11/08 05:30 AM
Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Hi Folks,
Due to delays at CD Baby, we're just now able to get started on Round 2 of the JPF Music Awards. We have the music now and our tech partners (the guys behind Virgin Digital and Radio Free Virgin as well as AOL Radio, CBS Radio and Yahoo Radio among other things) are finishing the judging interface to handle all this music the rest of the way. I have no ETA on when we'll get to Round 3 and 4 let alone when nominations will be ready, but all we can do is tackle this full speed ahead and go from there.
As always we use a mix of judges during the process including Industry Professionals, Musician and Songwriter Peers and Music Fans. In these early rounds, we do require a level of competence among our judges (i.e. those who are fans) simply due to the work load involved. If you'd like to participate in the screening process, our only criteria is:
Does it move you?
That can be based on anything that you require in music to move you. It could be slick production, great vocals, fantastic melody, story that makes you cry or laugh, or all of the above or something completely different. All we ask is that you judge honestly and pick your favorites based on your perspective. What more can a person do right?
If you want to get involved, we'll be starting new folks into the process next week so please send me a Private Message with your interest, what genres of music you like most (sorry, we have to choose the genres for you so we can avoid any conflicts or voter bias as much as possible) and how much time you could dedicate to the process (as we are doing this all online this year). (For those of you who have screened in the past via CD's, we won't be able to ship them to you this time around. We might be able to burn CD's of the nominated songs, but that's not confirmed at this time).
I'll follow up with those interested next week once I have tested and certified the interface is ready. (We may have need for some beta testers as well).
Thanks in advance! Remember, this is OUR music awards, it's part of the entire community. So get involved and help us recognize the best music in over 100 different genres from over 160 different countries!
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney 
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#666846 - 11/10/08 09:24 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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Fritzafraniac
Casual Observer
Registered: 11/06/06
Posts: 30
Loc: Verona, NY
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Great job for moving things along, Brian! I can only imagine the hours, days, weeks, months, etc., it takes for you and the reviewers to go through the entries. It's nice belonging to a group of such talented people!! Best of luck to all!!
_________________________
Fritz Fritz's Polka Band "Sponsored by Jagermeister!" "Only polka band to perform at a Woodstock Festival!" http://www.fritzspolkaband.com
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#666857 - 11/10/08 10:56 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Fritzafraniac]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Fritz,
You could always jump in and help out! = )
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#667800 - 11/14/08 04:10 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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MidniteBob
Top 200 Poster
Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 1079
Loc: Raleigh, ya'll
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Brian,
I sent you an e-mail...Maybe ya missed it...Some of the CDs say "No tracks available"...But on the ones that have tracks, I can't get the tracks to play...I click, nothing happens...And it doesn't say anything about needing a certain type of "plug-in" or whatever. They simply don't play.
He'p me, somebody, please!!!
Midnite
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#667814 - 11/14/08 07:41 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: MidniteBob]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Bob,
Check your browser. If you're using Explorer, it has to be 7.0 If safari or some other, make sure that you have FLASH installed. Without it, it won't play.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#667962 - 11/14/08 06:14 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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MidniteBob
Top 200 Poster
Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 1079
Loc: Raleigh, ya'll
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Brian,
I was missing Flash...Got it now...Thanks!
Midnite
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#667967 - 11/14/08 06:30 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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ben willis
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 4842
Loc: Ft. Myers, FL. USA
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I get some "no tracks available", but I just move on. I don't want to leave anybody out at all. Everyone involved deserves a chance. Hopefully it will all come out in the wash(so to speak).
I am very proud of my picks so far and hope that they continue on for an award.
We must be very careful and point out ANY glitch or flaw in the system that we find.
I haven't found anyone yet unqualified for these awards, which is a reflection of the Indie music community and the quality of music submitted.
In other words, I ain't heard much junk yet. Ben
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#667977 - 11/14/08 07:32 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: ben willis]
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MidniteBob
Top 200 Poster
Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 1079
Loc: Raleigh, ya'll
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I agree...The talent is inspiring....I have a few with "no playable tracks{ but I've marked them too and will get back to them.
Seriously, I started listening because I figured I owed it to Brian...I didn't realize that Brian was doing me a favor by asking me to help.
Too Kewl!!
Midnite
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#668021 - 11/14/08 09:31 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: MidniteBob]
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ben willis
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 4842
Loc: Ft. Myers, FL. USA
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Mid, Do what you can. Don't dwell on what you can't control.
You have the same fear that I have, that someone who deserves to win will be left out. It won't happen.
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#668024 - 11/14/08 09:49 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: ben willis]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Guys.. this is VERY important: If you get No Playable Tracks, you need to POSTPONE that album and put a note in. Eventually we'll have a solution for those tracks and they can be judged. Do NOT just hit complete. That means you'll never see that album again.
And to Midnites point: I get that same comment every year folks folks. It's a positive experience to participate in for many reasons, not the least of which you hear great music and you're directly involved in promoting deserving music in the biggest awards in the world. That's why we only ask what you love.. we don't care about what you hate... we leave that crap for American Idol.. we focus on the stuff that moves us.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#668033 - 11/14/08 10:14 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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ben willis
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 4842
Loc: Ft. Myers, FL. USA
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So how do we go back to the "no playable tracks"? if we continued without them, How can we find them later? My worst fear is to leave someome out.
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#668055 - 11/15/08 12:24 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: ben willis]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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If you postpone them, they simply go to the end of your list. That's how they are protected. If you hit complete, they are considered finished. If you did that already (i.e. hit complete) you can page backwards using the back button and change from completed to postpone I think. Going forward just use the postpone for any album that has tech problems and notate the problem in the notes section. Once you get through ALL the albums that have tracks, all you'll have left are the problems and then someone can look into it. They are working as we speak to find some of those. In a few cases, we got actual CD's sent to us (about 150 albums) from CD Baby for ones that aren't loading. But there's additional that are still missing. So they are working on getting them.
Thanks,
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#668056 - 11/15/08 01:00 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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ben willis
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 4842
Loc: Ft. Myers, FL. USA
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I guess we can only do as much as we can do. I will trust the software to do the rest.
Whoever gets passed as "no playable tracks" has to go somewhere. it is beyond what a judge can do, and not their fault if they are unable to hear it.
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#668092 - 11/15/08 08:57 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: ben willis]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Ben,
Again.. please click "postpone" and we'll make sure that those missing tracks get heard. No one is getting passed up. As long as you follow directions. If you don't follow directions, then someone could get skipped. It's up to you really.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#668123 - 11/15/08 11:49 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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ben willis
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 4842
Loc: Ft. Myers, FL. USA
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I'll have to use the back button and review what I've already done and make corrections.
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#668154 - 11/15/08 02:56 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: ben willis]
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ben willis
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 4842
Loc: Ft. Myers, FL. USA
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OK Brian, It's done. I backtracked everything, found several "no playable tracks" and hit postpone. They moved up to the top of the list, so they are still there.
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#668325 - 11/16/08 09:23 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: ben willis]
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pRISCILLA
Serious Contributor
Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 510
Loc: Barcelona, Spain
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Just wanted to thank the big effort everyone is making
and luck to everyone too!
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#668685 - 11/18/08 01:59 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: pRISCILLA]
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SLO Town Tommy
Casual Observer
Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 2
Loc: Sam Luis Obispo, CA
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Just went and took a listen to you at your myspace page...what an awesome voice you have....you sing like an angel!
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#669946 - 11/23/08 01:27 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: SLO Town Tommy]
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Dave Rice
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 3414
Loc: Glen Rose, TX , USA
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Hey Brian:
I received an E-mail from you stating that there would be a "topic" or listing for this year's awards screeners and I did not find one yet... so I thought I'd bring it up here and hope you see it. (It's a suggestion for next year's awards format.)
May I respectfully suggest that you limit the number of albums for each participant to only one. It takes so long to listen to each album... and I know I've heard albums from the same people at least three times... no, not each participant, just certain ones. I believe each participant should pick only three or four songs from each album... they know the good ones (at least in their minds) and we could concentrate on that instead of trying to separate the "wheat from the chaff."
I hope you get this and it will be of some benefit to you and other screeners. Man, this is a task... and I'm only about 75% finished screening one genre with two or three more to go. I hope you have lots of troops in the trenches and that some of them are double covering the same genres.
Best,
Dave
_________________________
Fame is fleeting... money will last a little longer... but a good song is forever! Showcase Your Music
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#670051 - 11/24/08 03:30 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Dave Rice]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Dave,
We've never had a limit before this. It's not uncommon for some artists to get multiple album nominations in any given year for different projects. We decided the best way to do the awards was to keep limits as few as possible. If something isn't moving you, simply move on and don't spend a lot of time on it. If it IS moving you, then why would we want less of that? Either way we don't see it as a problem. Either it's not great and you move on past it, or it IS great and therefore the more the better.
As for having entrants pick the songs, that's a terrible idea which has been clearly demonstrated every year we've done this. The reason is that artists are the worst judges of their own work. I bet 2 out of 3 songs nominations are songs not suggested by the artist. There's many reasons. One is that they pick the ones they think we're SUPPOSED to like based on some bogus crap they learned in some bad seminar or because their family said it was best etc. I think it's best to let a wide range of unbiased listeners who aren't worried about what sells or what rules there's supposed to be pick what they love based on that single criteria.. does it move you? No one else allows the entrants or the judges to make decisions based on something so honest and straght forward and I think by doing it we see a lot of great material and more importantly, a lot of great writers and artists getting attention that a predictable and stale "industry" would never shine the light on.
As for screeners, we used over 8000 judges last time.. we have a lot of redundancy. So just flag what you love and we'll take it from there. No worries.
As for where this will be, as I said in the email, we're going to set up a message board at the BOTTOM of this page in the staff area. It's actually already there, but it's a pain in the button to add people to a special "group" so they can access the board privately. I am trying to figure out a faster way to do it. Right now it's takes over a minute to add 1 name and we have hundreds already and soon thousands. It won't be viewable to the general public. I thought I'd answer these questions here as they aren't a secret.. we just want a private area where judges can be open about things without worrying what people may say or think that aren't involved in the process and don't know the entire picture.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#670130 - 11/24/08 11:22 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Sorry about all the crazy typos and lexicon errors in my post above. I was quite sleep deprived when I wrote it. Just like I am now.. better get to bed! = )
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#670253 - 11/24/08 06:50 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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Dave Rice
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 3414
Loc: Glen Rose, TX , USA
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Brian:
I completely understand... you spend way too much time keeping this ship away from the "icebergs." (LOL!)
Now that you have explained that you have plenty of troops in the trenches, I feel much better. It's just that there are so many songs on many of these albums and I really do want to listen to each song enough to at least make a reasonable judgement about "liking" what I am hearing. Many songs in the "blues" genre are anywhere from 6 to 12 minutes long... and I just don't listen to much more than a minute unless it is a "water walker" of a number.
I'll keep on plugging and try to get onto one of the jazz genres ASAP. (Not too sure about Klezmer!)
Dave
_________________________
Fame is fleeting... money will last a little longer... but a good song is forever! Showcase Your Music
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#670254 - 11/24/08 06:55 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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Jack Swain
Top 200 Poster
Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 1545
Loc: Berwyn, IL, US
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I noticed that 0ne cd I am listening to was released in 2001. I would think we want newer entries, but based on your answer to Dave I am guessing it is okay. It does not bother me, one way or the other, but I guess they can enter the same cd year after year if they want.
Edited by Jack Swain (11/24/08 06:58 PM)
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#670304 - 11/24/08 10:30 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Jack Swain]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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There's no time limits on when something was recorded. Music doesn't have an expiration date. Our goal is to find music that moves us from any source. Also don't freak out if you see a famous name. They're members just like everyone else and should get the same shot as everyone else as well. (Some people give them more benefit, some less.. but it should be neutral). We allow folks to know who they are listening to because we're a networking org. and I think know who the great artists are out there is a good thing for everyone. And if someone wanted to cheat and look up who someone was, they could, so instead of "criminalizing" that curiousity, we just let folks know who is involved. We don't, however, tell people who judged what, so I'd prefer if you guys kept the genres you judge to yourselves if possible. It's best not to open anyone up to influence or pressure from an entrant.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#670574 - 11/25/08 04:49 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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Ethan
Serious Contributor
Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 183
Loc: Washington State, USA
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On my work machine, Windows XP with first Flash v9 and then Flash v10 (latest), I get an error that "Flash Crashed" in all browsers: IE 7.0, FF3, Chrome
Works at home on my mac w/ Safari.
** EDIT: I tried Postponing the album I was loading and the next one works. Looks like another version of the Songs Not Found error? **
Cheers,
Ethan
Edited by Ethan (11/25/08 04:51 PM)
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#670608 - 11/25/08 06:32 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Ethan]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Ethan,
There are 150 missing albums out of the 17K that are still in the running. We have most of them here on CD now. So just use Postpone on anything that won't load after you notate in the My Notes box what the problem is. We'll try to fix it or make sure we have a copy here.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#671214 - 11/27/08 11:52 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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Dave Rice
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 3414
Loc: Glen Rose, TX , USA
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Well Brian... and fellow pre-screeners:
I've completed screening approx. 275 albums. Man, what an ordeal. A couple of albums had more than 18 songs and, near the end of the "pile" I had to endure one album with 30 songs. What are these people thinking? Oh well, now it's on the the next genre. Brian, at this rate, I'm almost certain that I will not be able to complete my assigned genres by the end of the year. I will pick the next as the next "set" and try to get it done, then run up the warning flag again.
Happy Turkey Day,
Dave
Edited by Brian Austin Whitney (11/28/08 03:51 AM)
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#671234 - 11/28/08 03:50 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Dave Rice]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Everyone: Please keep the genres you're working on confidential. We really don't want people to start emailing asking what you thought of their album etc. It opens too many doors for people to try and manipulate things or for others to FEAR that it is happening even when it's not.
I gave all the judges extra genres. That way if you started one and felt like it wasn't what you loved, you could switch to another without having to come back to me and wait for me to change it. So pick one you like best and work on it until it is done. If you finish, start another.
As for finishing by the end of the year, our goal for this round is to finish Round 2 by the end of January. But we will take however long it takes to get it all right. There's still several more rounds to complete and we'll work and work until we get to the nominations. So take the time you need to do it right. Do a genre at a time. And if you finish and have time to keep doing more, just ask and we'll set you up with another genre. There can't be too many judges in this round. The goal is to search for all the songs that move our collective judges the most. After this round, then we'll be comparative judgings, measuring all the flagged songs to each other. It's a different kind of screening at that time. This is the time where it's just fun and pressure free. So enjoy it, and give a nudge forward to all those songs that blow you away.
Thanks!
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#671254 - 11/28/08 08:50 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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Dave Rice
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 3414
Loc: Glen Rose, TX , USA
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OOPS! Sorry, Brian:
Do you ever sleep? I'm gettin' ready to get back "on the job again" after a day of football games and turkey. Hope you had time to enjoy yours. (No, it's not 3:51 AM here... LOL!)
Dave
_________________________
Fame is fleeting... money will last a little longer... but a good song is forever! Showcase Your Music
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#671829 - 11/30/08 09:06 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Dave Rice]
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Lynn Orloff
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 5161
Loc: PA of the great USA
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Boy I'm glad I read this. I didn't know about keeping the genre we are listening to hush hush. I hadn't told anyone yet but now I for certain won't. Thanks for that statement in red above Brian. 
This has been an eye opening and good experience for me in one way for sure Brian, I am now getting a true appreciation and respect for what publishers have to listen to on their way to finding that one golden nugget. They must pull their hair out on one hand and yet when they come across that "gem" it hopefully makes their hours/days of listening all worth it. I have a new found respect for publishers. God Bless them!!!
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#671830 - 11/30/08 09:11 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Lynn Orloff]
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Lynn Orloff
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 5161
Loc: PA of the great USA
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Hey Dave I like your term "water walker" for a good song.
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#671843 - 11/30/08 09:55 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Lynn Orloff]
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Kevin Emmrich
Top 20 Poster
Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 8632
Loc: Crozet, VA
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I really haven't heard any "bad" songs in my 1st genre, **********. Pretty much the singing quality is better than anything I have ever done and is better than most of the songs I hear here (sorry, but at the same time we are more about songwriting than performing here). Of course it is still hard to find those "picks" that are worthy of further consideration, but it is a worthwhile task to listen to all this stuff.
Kevin
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#671887 - 12/01/08 04:58 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Kevin Emmrich]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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There's about a half dozen (out of 100) weak genres this year. The rest are very strong. We've already cut out the bottom 60% of the largest genres, but in the really small ones we may not have cut anything. It's possible to find something on those that's weak. But I doubt you'll find a lot of weak material in the larger genres. Or, perhaps I should better say that if you think any of that is weak, you really wouldn't have liked what we eliminated.
= )
Brian
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#671987 - 12/01/08 12:48 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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Larry Williams
Serious Contributor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1822
Loc: Santa Clarita, CA USA
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In several of my genres I probably have a third of the CDs released prior to 2007. I would suggest that only CDs released in the past 18 months be eligible. That would reduce the effort considerably. Some of these CDs were released in 1998 or 2002 or whatever and have probably been entered every year.
Is there a reason we couldn't use a release date (like the Grammys) as a cutoff period for submission?
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#672052 - 12/01/08 06:47 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Larry Williams]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Larry,
We've covered this multiple times. We don't have a time frame limit. Music isn't milk. It doesn't spoil with age.
Someone may not even know about JPF until today. If they didn't, how could they have entered their music from 2006? We want to encourage more people to get involved. And we want to find and recognize outstanding music. That's our goal. So how does a time frame enter into it?
I wouldn't be against having a time cut off if we had the budget that other entities have and could let the entire music community know about us so they could enter. But since we're still a volunteer run entity without a marketing budget and media ties, it takes a long time for people to hear about us. And if you think about reality, many times people write songs years before they actually record them and release them. So why have an arbitrary time frame based on commercial release to limit finding great music?
If the problem is too many entries, well, I don't think we can have too many entries as long as we can get through it all. If the very best song or album we find happened to have come from 2006, I sure don't want to miss it. If this grows beyond what we can do, then we'll have to start limiting it. But it wouldn't be because we wanted to.. only that we had no other option.
If it bugs you that music has a date on it earlier than you like, I suppose that's an issue that "moves" you. Use your own judgement. But to be clear, we welcomed anyone to enter anything they wanted. Many of these folks (about 7K) are new to JPF and thus could not have entered anything the last time. Also remember that we haven't even DONE an awards since 2006 and the last entry deadline was the end of 2005. So technically, you couldn't have entered any music newer than 2005 into our awards until now.
The Grammy's specifically serve commerce. They often shy away from (as the Oscars also do) releases even at the start of a year. They want the freshest possible releases, preferably in the few months before the deadline. That's because they want sales. That's their purpose. Our goal is to recognize music that moves us. For most people, that has little to do with release dates. We do restrict people from entering anything more than 1 time. But we're willing to give all music 1 shot at it. We do have an internal guideline for really old material which can be considered in our historical category. But beyond that, we just take what comes in. If something that was recorded years ago has the production values, songwriting quality and ability to connect with us as much as something recorded this year, bring it out.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#672060 - 12/01/08 07:07 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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Tom Tracy
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 2558
Loc: Lumberport,WV, USA
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I'm listening to songs in a specific category, and after a while, they all start to sound exactly the same. Mind if I jump back and forth between a few categories so I can keep a clear head? I know we're supposed to stick with one until it's finished. What's your take?
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#672063 - 12/01/08 07:26 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Tom Tracy]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Tom,
As long as you can FINISH them, I don't care how many you work on. But if you only have time to finish 1, then please work on one until it is finished. This is a new way of doing all of this and each time we have to reinvent the entire screening process. My fear is that we'll have lots of screening for the first half of each genre.. then it will tail off and by the end of the alphabet, we'll have very little screening and it will be difficult to make good decisions based on incomplete data. We could have dynamically assigned albums (i.e. have them come up in order between all judges) but then we wouldn't have had a consistent viewpoint of 1 person across an entire category. That's been a strength of our judging/screening system in that for votes to count, someone has to listen to all music still in the running across the board in a category. In all past years that is how we've done it. This is different from something like Ourstage where they just serve up the next in order and no one really screens all the possible combinations most of the time. I understand why they do that and when you're dealing with millions of judges who might only judge 1 head to head match up, it makes sense. But we try to find committed judges that can go through an entire category or more.
So.. if you, Tom Tracy the Superbad Judge, know you'll have time to finish multiple genres, then feel free to move back and forth. (I am doing that myself since I know I'll be finishing the categories I am working on). But if you think you'll only have time for 1, then only do 1.
Fair enough?
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#672067 - 12/01/08 07:37 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Tom Tracy]
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ben willis
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 4842
Loc: Ft. Myers, FL. USA
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I'm listening to songs in a specific category, and after a while, they all start to sound exactly the same.
Hi Tom, this is when I usually find something exceptional. After a while everything sounds the same, but that one song or album that moves you will stick out like a sore thumb. Ben
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#672079 - 12/01/08 08:22 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: ben willis]
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BIG JIM MERRILEES
Top 20 Poster
Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 8077
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland. UK
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I am judging Blues. Tom I can sympathise after a while they do start sounding the same. One or two jump out but the rest are just same ole. 22% gone only another 78% to go. Then I move on to Funk that should be interesting. I must say that I am impressed so far with the standards It is making me judge harsher.
Re Larry's point about old stuff. Whilst I agree with Brian's sentiment I think that if people have only just heard of us why don't they put up their current album instead of the one ten years or more ago. I am also finding multiple albums by the same bands. Again perhaps they should only be encouraged to enter one current or latest album.
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#672115 - 12/01/08 10:54 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]
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Larry Williams
Serious Contributor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1822
Loc: Santa Clarita, CA USA
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Brian,
I see your point about new people, but I'm simply wondering how many of these entries are repeat entries every year. Since it costs nothing to submit, maybe there are people submitting everything they have every year. If it didn't win last year, is it really likely to win this year?
On some of the other comments above, I agree that after listening to the 183rd song in the same style, they can start to sound similar. I agree with Ben in that if they don't stick out as better than the rest, then they are simply another run-of-the-mill song and shouldn't be flagged as special. I've done exactly that where I'll only flag one song on 2 or 3 CDs as worthy of more attention since it was the only one that made me sit up and take notice - it moved me. The rest of the songs were simply decent, but not spectacular. The "special" songs WILL move you.
Overall, I do see a pretty high bar for overall production quality in most of my genres...very few really bad cds.
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#672120 - 12/01/08 11:22 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Larry Williams]
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ben willis
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 4842
Loc: Ft. Myers, FL. USA
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Thanks Larry, I rarely flag anything as "special", but I found one particular artist as amazing. I would put this person next to any Grammy nominated artist. I hope that this person wins an award, then I would know for myself that my judgement and intuition are worthwhile.
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#672157 - 12/02/08 06:15 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: ben willis]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Larry,
Actually nothing is a repeat entry. We don't allow it. And we have a system to check and make sure that something entered this year wasn't last year. Occassionally a handful of albums still slip in, but we always catch them and remove them eventually. It's a clear rule and that eliminates most of it and our technical ability eliminates the rest. I'd never allow the same music to be considered more than once. But the flip side is that I think that any music made by a member should have a chance as well. As for multiple albums, as I have said before, it is quite common for people to get nominations from more than one album and in more than one genre. We've had a few artists get 4-5 album nominations in one year. One is actually so prolific that she's released 14 albums in the 3 years since the last deadline. And I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't get multiple nominations from them. I am not going to penalize someone for having too much talent. If the music isn't great, it gets cut in the first round anyway. And cutting bad entries is actually pretty easy. Just about anyone off the street could accurately cut the bad stuff out. Especially when you have so much good stuff to compare it too.
As for stuff sounding alike, when you have a LOT of good music, it becomes hard to tell whether everything is really good or really great. Once we get to the third round, it will be VERY difficult to determine what the best stuff really is because what you all are flagging will be going head to head and there's so very few spots available in each category for albums and songs. (Typically 8 albums and 20 songs get nominated in each genre). We could EASILY go 100 albums deep in both Male and Female Singer-Songwriter and we could go 200 albums deep in Rock. I think the folks next round will really start to understand how tough the music industry really is. For the most part, with only a few exception, these albums and artists are completely unknown and probably have gotten little attention for their work so far. It's a tough road out there. I am glad our awards can bring some deserved positive attention to some of this music.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#672158 - 12/02/08 06:17 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Ben,
Some of these folks have already won Grammy's and Oscars for their music. Our Experimental winner last year had won both and when he accept his award on stage at our last music awards, he said that his JPF Awards (he won two that night) meant far more to him than the Oscar or Grammys. That was about as high of praise as we could get. I hope one day that everyone feels that way. We give everyone the same fair chance, whether they are famous and unknown. We've had grammy and oscar winners not even get nominated as well. Those awards aren't the end all for what is good or bad. I think we can hold our head high alongside any of them for all the music we've uncovered over the years.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#672186 - 12/02/08 08:55 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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BIG JIM MERRILEES
Top 20 Poster
Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 8077
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland. UK
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Brian I am glad you made that last post. One thing that has opened my eyes is the wealth of talent out there (most of it relatively unknown or undiscovered)
The fact that so many have entered speaks volumes for JPF and its prestige within the industry.
"I think we can hold our head high alongside any of them for all the music we've uncovered over the years."
That is the understatement of the century.
PS Just a recap about covers. I am reviewing Blues and there are a number of covers mixed in with originals on some albums. That is the nature of Blues it is dominated by covers and slightly different takes on a main theme. Do some of these songs move me?... you bet. But can they be compared to other original material side by side?
I am finding it difficult to get my head round that concept.
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#672190 - 12/02/08 09:02 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Jim,
The "Cover" category is only for really interesting/inventive versions of well known songs. If someone has simply done a very nice version of a cover song, that's not rising to the level to flag. We don't have a "traditional" blues category. It might be something to consider if time allows later in the process but for now, you're really searching for 2 things: Great original songs that move you, and great albums with any types of songs (covers or originals) that move you. Flag those and we're good to go. And if you come across a cover that is so awesome or interesting or funny or bizarre, the flag it as a "cover" and we'll check that out as well. But those should be rare especially in a big category like Blues.
We do have a "Traditional" category in Holiday music and we do treat all A Cappella songs, original or cover, the same as that is a performance category where we recognize the performance and the arrangement. If an A Cappella original song is outstanding, we'd consider double nominating it in the appropriate secondary category (like Pop or whatever). We've done that twice before.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#672514 - 12/03/08 12:42 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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Ray E. Strode
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 05/22/01
Posts: 4540
Loc: Brunswick, Ga. USA
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Hey Brian,
Yes I have been able to reveiw the Music. There are 477 Classical Albums to review. I have done 90 so far. Have found some "Gems" and some Special Picks. Don't know how many are in the Classical Vocal Catagory or the Rock Catagory.
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Ray E. Strode
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#672533 - 12/03/08 01:38 PM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Ray E. Strode]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Ray,
Classical Vocal is much smaller. But Rock is the largest overall with over 1000 albums. Do the Classical Vocal first. = )
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#672906 - 12/05/08 09:39 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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Dave Rice
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 3414
Loc: Glen Rose, TX , USA
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Has anyone noticed how many of these albums have songs that are covers... some even considered old standards... and the artist or his/her minions have conveniently forgotten to list the songwriter... or even claim to have written the song themselves?
When I run across this condition... I simply skip to the next song. As a songwriter (some would argue) I get pretty disappointed when this happens. If it happens more than once on an album... I move on to the next album. I'm not gonna reward poor manners.
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Fame is fleeting... money will last a little longer... but a good song is forever! Showcase Your Music
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#672918 - 12/05/08 10:57 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Dave Rice]
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Dave,
That's just a tech issue with CD Baby. Don't hold the artists accountable for something they might not even be the cause of. We got that info via the CD Baby database. It's possible, for example, that some of that music isn't for sale digitally. Therefore there would have been no reason for them to update that info which is only really needed for digital sales.
We included that info as a support tool to better determine if songs are covers are originals. It's not complete but it sure does make it easier. Though some may mistakenly not be listed as covers, at least we know that when it IS listed as a cover or traditional that we can move on to the next song. It's a big time saver. We'll still verify the writers before announcing nominees.
That's not to say that artists NEVER falsely claim writer status. They do. We've had cases where people out and out lied about it. But that's a tiny number of people overall. Don't fault any of the entrants for anything OTHER than their actual music. If you love it, flag it. If you don't, move on. Don't use things like "wrong genre" or "mistaken writer credits" or "age of album" to skip something that moves you. Most of those issues may not be the fault of the artists at all.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#672927 - 12/05/08 11:33 AM
Re: Music Awards 2nd Round Screening to Begin!
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
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Larry Williams
Serious Contributor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1822
Loc: Santa Clarita, CA USA
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A good percentage of the Classical vocal genre are "covers": Verdi, Saint-Saens, Bizet, Gluck, etc. Since these are all in the public domain, there's no real harm in using the music.
However, I'm much more inclined to be moved by original classical music (performed by the composer) than someone performing well-known arias, for instance. Some of the original compositions are quite exceptional.
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