|
|
#388810 - 08/18/02 12:33 PM
Chord names
|
Mike Dunbar
JPF Mentor
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 8201
Loc: Nashville Tennessee
|
Dont' know the name of that chord in your new song? Post it here. Let us know the notes, bottom to top, in the chord. Also, let us know three other things: the name of the chord before it, the name of the chord after it, and the key of the song.
Many chords have more than one name, so we can have a good debate here about the best name for your chord.
_________________________
Anybody who’s made it will tell you, you can make it. Anyone who hasn’t made it will tell you, you can’t -John Mayer Success is simply a matter of luck. Ask any failure. -Earl Wilson It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388811 - 08/22/02 05:49 PM
Re: Chord names
|
TrumanCoyote
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 2096
|
I always just called it the "Purple Haze" chord. It is (lowest note first):
E
E
G#
D
G
Is it E7 sharp 9? But there is no B in it.
And, of course, in the key of D, it is the famous "Taxman" chord.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388812 - 08/22/02 10:50 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Mike Dunbar
JPF Mentor
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 8201
Loc: Nashville Tennessee
|
Truman,
The old "Purple Haze" chord is an E seven augmented nine. Your name is fairly correct.
As far as the missing B goes, lot of larger chords leave out notes (especially on the guitar), If you're going to leave one out, the fifth is a decent choice. The root is fairly important, the third makes it major or minor, the seventh helps define it as being in the key of the root, and the sharp nine is the "money" note.
Just for fun, try playing it in a different inversion...like put the sharp nine lower and put the third up above the seventh. The whole character of the chord changes, same notes, different order.
I've heard the brain can only track five things at one time, tops, so we tend to group larger numbers of things. We hear extended chords as two different chords played at the same time. We hear this chord kind of like an E major chord on the bottom with a G drone chord on the top. (notice both the E and G chords normally have B's in them, the note we can leave out...it's implied from two directions.)
Great chord, the E7+9 (E seven augmented nine) Try it with the B, it sounds nice and thick.
_________________________
Anybody who’s made it will tell you, you can make it. Anyone who hasn’t made it will tell you, you can’t -John Mayer Success is simply a matter of luck. Ask any failure. -Earl Wilson It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388813 - 08/24/02 11:32 AM
Re: Chord names
|
Larry Williams
Serious Contributor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1822
Loc: Santa Clarita, CA USA
|
Yeah, the ol' 7#9 chord...great "color" chord. It's also used a lot in blues for the turnaround (V chord).
------------------
Larry
http://www.audibleresponse.com
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388814 - 08/24/02 12:03 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Mike Dunbar
JPF Mentor
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 8201
Loc: Nashville Tennessee
|
Yeah, it has a cool discordant yet "static" sound, like some sort of a perverted, mutant six/nine chord LOL.
I haven't heard the song lately, but wasn't the 7aug9 used on the intro and turn around in the Atlanta Rhythm Section's remake of their own hit (under the name of the Classics IV) "Spooky"?
_________________________
Anybody who’s made it will tell you, you can make it. Anyone who hasn’t made it will tell you, you can’t -John Mayer Success is simply a matter of luck. Ask any failure. -Earl Wilson It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388815 - 08/25/02 11:23 AM
Re: Chord names
|
Larry Williams
Serious Contributor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1822
Loc: Santa Clarita, CA USA
|
I can't think of the melody for Spooky off-hand. Can you hum a few bars?  , but wasn't the Atlanta Rhythm Section the one who did "So Into You"?
The syncopated hook/turnaround used a 7#9 chord ("So into you, so into me...") and the rest of the song was a minor blues progression if memory serves me right.
------------------
Larry
http://www.audibleresponse.com
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388816 - 08/25/02 11:51 AM
Re: Chord names
|
Mike Dunbar
JPF Mentor
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 8201
Loc: Nashville Tennessee
|
Larry,
I'll hum it into my Duntools program that converts sound to numbers...here goes:
65656612b3b321216
Sound right? Spooky. The Atlanta Rhythm section used the 7#9 for So Into You, and I think, for their version of Spooky too.
_________________________
Anybody who’s made it will tell you, you can make it. Anyone who hasn’t made it will tell you, you can’t -John Mayer Success is simply a matter of luck. Ask any failure. -Earl Wilson It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#388817 - 08/25/02 04:53 PM
Re: Chord names
|
3daveyO3
Serious Contributor
Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 704
Loc: Buffalo, NY USA
|
Hey Guys,
Sitting here with guitar in hand and thinking that the spelling of the chord is wrong. Shouldn't the aug 9 be spelled out as an F## ? Because 2 in E Maj is F# an octave higher is a 9th and aug would be a half step higher which is G, but in chord spelling is really F##. Just a wunderin'
davey O.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388818 - 08/25/02 05:56 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Mike Dunbar
JPF Mentor
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 8201
Loc: Nashville Tennessee
|
Davey,
Exactly! In the key of E, the G would be a flatted third...the sharped nine (nine is the same as a two, the two being F#) would be F##, also notated as Fx. Welcome to the world of music theory, We can hold a Riverdance of angels on a pin.
Practically speaking, we wouldn't call it an Emajor/minor seventh...nor would we call it an E7addb10...these names are too redundant for music theory (and that's saying a LOT!) So, when we're told EEG#DG, we bow to the sound, rather than the spelling of the chord and: voila (which is the larger instrument in the voilin family) E7aug9.
BTW, Two names of the same note are called "enharmonic equivalents", according to traditional western theory.
P.S.
A nine isn't a two an octave higher, it's what you call a two when a three is present. If you have, for example, C D E G, That would be a Cadd9; if you have C D G, That would be a Csuspended2. The two suspends you from knowing whether it is a major or minor chord, with the nine you know it's major or minor, it just sounds thicker.
[This message has been edited by Mike Dunbar (edited 08-25-2002).]
_________________________
Anybody who’s made it will tell you, you can make it. Anyone who hasn’t made it will tell you, you can’t -John Mayer Success is simply a matter of luck. Ask any failure. -Earl Wilson It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388819 - 08/25/02 08:26 PM
Re: Chord names
|
3daveyO3
Serious Contributor
Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 704
Loc: Buffalo, NY USA
|
Mike,
Actually,I have a 2 year degree in music, so theory isn't all that new to me. So I know about enharmonic equivalency and such. I still struggle with things like chords subs and other things, but overall I have a pretty good grasp. I have to not necessarily disagree but rather differ with you in what I was taught about intervals. I was taught that for things like 9ths and 11ths, you take the degree of the scale, ie the 2nd, and add seven = a 9th. Hence the root note being an octave etc. Obviously you don't have to voice them an octave higher, but in some situations like the chord that Truman used as an example, having a G next to an F##(G#) is a tight and very dissonant interval of a minor 2nd. So by playing one of them an octave higher, it gives the interval a bit of breathing room so to speak. Some things work better on the piano than guitar because of the ability to spread out the voicing. BTW, I love to use sus chords. Something I picked up from being a Pete Townshend fan. This is great. I love to talk theory because it makes you think about how you're playing and how the notes you use work together. Whoever started this board deserves a pat on the back.
davey O.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388820 - 08/25/02 08:44 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Mike Dunbar
JPF Mentor
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 8201
Loc: Nashville Tennessee
|
Kaboom,
I don't think we're differing at all. A two is a nine, a four is an eleven, a six is a thirteen.
Yes, this is fun. I haven't thought about this stuff since nineteen fifty nine. Of course right now it's twenty two forty six.
BTW
Kudos to Brian who came up with this board.
[This message has been edited by Mike Dunbar (edited 08-25-2002).]
_________________________
Anybody who’s made it will tell you, you can make it. Anyone who hasn’t made it will tell you, you can’t -John Mayer Success is simply a matter of luck. Ask any failure. -Earl Wilson It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388821 - 08/25/02 11:43 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Larry Williams
Serious Contributor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1822
Loc: Santa Clarita, CA USA
|
Interesting perspectives. I have my own which is probably no better or worse than anyone elses - just maybe a bit different.
I was taught that the upper chordal tones came into use beginning in the later Romantic period (1860+) and were used extensively during the Impressionistic period (Debussy, Ravel) until approximately 1910. I've analyzed a number of the Impressionist works in great detail and there were definitely quite a few of what we might call jazz chords today. These guys were the first ones to use a LOT of 9ths, 11ths and 13ths and chords we today might call G/A or a 9sus4; I even found a few add9 chords in Debussy's "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun". The first use of these "terribly dissonant" chord tones in Romantic period music was in the upper registers above the triadic tones played by other orchestral instruments. For that reason, they were called 9ths in traditional analysis instead of 2nds (for instance). At least, that's how I remember the original theory from my history courses.
Later on, these more complex chord tones developed into common usage by swing era jazz players and even more so during the bebop and cool jazz periods.
I don't think anyone asked these original composers what THEY called those chords, so I can just imagine some graduate student Musicologist at the time probably having a conversation with his professor: "I dunno, whadda you wanna call it? Hey, I know...let's just call it a 9th chord since it's up high, OK?" Except this was probably done in either a very formal British accent, or some French dialect.
And someone agreed with him and wrote it in a book...and here we are...
------------------
Larry
http://www.audibleresponse.com
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388822 - 09/04/02 02:38 PM
Re: Chord names
|
songman
Serious Contributor
Registered: 09/27/01
Posts: 236
Loc: Sunland, Ca
|
Dennis Yost and the Claaaics Four, Yeah, that was a 7#9 even got your diminished chord somewhere in that tune, Great Band of Dudes! The 7#9 chord is a great dominant sound as is the 7flat 9, Who was that guitar player? Barry Beckett? I know I'm wrong, Beckett, Bailey, he's a fine, fine player! Tj
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388823 - 09/04/02 05:46 PM
Re: Chord names
|
TrumanCoyote
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 2096
|
Bailey. And J. R. Cobb, I think.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388824 - 09/04/02 06:57 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Bob Young
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 4372
Loc: chicago il usa
|
OK..time for a bob young old guy guitar player story that has a finish !
In 1961 and '62 I was living in Hollywood.
My mom had a secretarial service and thru a series of happenstances I met Steve Allen..
He was doing the Steve Allen show from the little theatre on Vine Street right next to the old Hollywood Ranch Market.
I was just a kid guitar player playing surf music and Steve introduced me to Herb Ellis who was playing guitar in the TV show band.
Also in the band was Ray Brown (rest his soul) Frank Rosselini..Mousie Alexander(also both dead..jeeez I'm old)..lotsa great players.
Anyway..Herb and Jack Marshall (a famous Hollywood session guitarist) were trying to put together a lesson book for rock and roll guitar players who wanted to make the jump into Jazz.
I became the "guinea pig" for the stuff they were trying to work out..in exchange Herb gave me lessons in fingerboard harmony and lots of practical little be-bop tricks many of which I still use today.
It was also then that I developed an affinity for the ES-175 which had been Herbs guitar of choice for many years.
I got to meet great guitarists like Jimmy Raney, Barney Kessel and Tal Farlow..all of whom were good friends of Herbs.
Imagine me..a white-faced kid sitting there playing "Oh Lady B. Goode" with Herb Ellis, Ray Brown and Mousie Alexander as my rhythm section...wow..what I wouldn't give to relive some of that !
Any way...Herb taught me a cool little trick that won him drinks from other guitar players for years !
It's a six string diminished chord that uses 4 fingers and not a barre chord.
He called it "the spider" and I'll describe it as best I can.
You start (I'll do this in G diminished) with the standard 4 finger diminished form on the top 4 strings..You old guys will know which one I mean..
Strike the first string..then the second..then as you're striking the third and fourth strings you lift your fourth finger which was on the third fret 1st string and move it to the 4th fret of the 5th string..at the same time moving the second finger which was on the second fret of the 2d string to the third fret of the 6th
string...if you do this as you are striking the 3d and 4th strings then just hit 5th and six strings and BINGO a six string diminished
when you get smooth at this it really does look like a spider..hence the name !
Hope this makes sense..it's cool to be on stage and watch folks as you do this..it's an eye-popper I promise !
Bob
[This message has been edited by bob young (edited 09-04-2002).]
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388825 - 09/04/02 07:23 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Mike Dunbar
JPF Mentor
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 8201
Loc: Nashville Tennessee
|
Bob,
That's a marvelous story. What a great experience for you.
I've always had a deep respect and admiration for Steve Allen (a very underappreciated musician himself). His Aunt Rose and Uncle Charlie were friends of my grandmother. We never got to meet him, but my family all loved him.
I'm "playing" the spider on my arm right now, a great chord with a great story!
_________________________
Anybody who’s made it will tell you, you can make it. Anyone who hasn’t made it will tell you, you can’t -John Mayer Success is simply a matter of luck. Ask any failure. -Earl Wilson It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388826 - 09/04/02 09:17 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Bob Young
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 4372
Loc: chicago il usa
|
You know Mike..the real finish to that story is what a small world it is..
Many years later..about 1982 or '83 my jobbing band had begun to do very well in Chicago society circles.
I needed a solo violin for a gig and got the name of an older guy..John Frigo.
It turned out that John got his start in show business with Paul Whiteman as a bass player..then moved on to Jimmy Dorseys band where he played bass thru the early and mid 40's.
Later he formed a group "The Softwinds" a trio..the members were John..Ray Brown and Herb Ellis !(almost forgot Lou Carter..piano player who did alot of dates when Ray was doing something else..when Lou was there John played bass..when Ray was there John played violin..Billie Holliday and many others recorded several of the songs written by the Softwinds.."Detour Ahead"..Billie did it..Stan Kenton..lots of folks..also " I told You I Love You, Now
get Out!"..done by everybody from Woody Herman to Cybil Shepherd !)
They gigged all over the Midwest and West thru the late 40's and early 50's.
Then John came off the road to become the "fiddle" player on the National Barn Dance..a radio show out of Chicago that actually pre-dated the Grand Old Opry.
When Herb and Barney Kessel and Charlie Byrd went on the road in the 80's as "Guitars Galore" John and I went to Jazz Showcase in Chicago and I was reintroduced to Herb who remembered me and signed the ES 175 that I had at the time.
About a year later Ray came thru town with I think Wynton Kelly (piano player) and signed the same guitar.
Herb is very sick these days..he's been fighting alcohol abuse for many years..Barney Kessell is also very ill and uninsured and recently had to sell off several of his old guitars.
John Frigo is 88 and in great health and will be playing at my daughters wedding on Oct. 27th.
He tours all over the world and was the replacement for Jon-Luc-Ponty at the North Sea Jazz festival last year or the year before when Jon got ill.(maybe 3 years ago..my memory is not so good sometimes)
I was so fortunate to get to meet all those guys when I was just a green kid..it really taught me alot about integrity in music..and many of the lessons I learned back then I still use today !
There was another guy hanging around Herb in those days..he had just come to Hollywood and was making a real name for himself as a session guy..years later I had the pleasure of sharing stages with him in Phoenix..kid named Glenn Campbell !
Sonny Bono was doing session work then too..actually Barney Kessell did alot of Rock sessions too..Tommy Tedesco was just starting out...jeeez...so many talented guys !
Bob (strolling down memory lane) Young
[This message has been edited by bob young (edited 09-04-2002).]
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388827 - 09/05/02 06:19 AM
Re: Chord names
|
Jean Bullock
Top 10 Poster
Registered: 09/18/01
Posts: 10244
Loc: Anaheim, CA, USA
|
Have I said that I love this post and forum? I am learning so much and enjoying the stories.
JeanB
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388828 - 09/05/02 06:33 AM
Re: Chord names
|
TrumanCoyote
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 2096
|
Great stories, Bob. Was Gus Bivona in the Allen band at that time? Steve used to tease Gus on the air a lot. I think Steve thought Gus' name was comical (it was!). And didn't Frank Devol hang out with that crowd, too?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388829 - 09/05/02 07:16 AM
Re: Chord names
|
Mike Dunbar
JPF Mentor
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 8201
Loc: Nashville Tennessee
|
Bob,
Wonderful memories! You should write a book.
Small world department:
My friend who owned the Gibson Howard Roberts model I mentioned in the Arch Top post at the Guitar forum, was a man named Ray Tate. In the 70's, Ray and I jammed with John Frigo.
_________________________
Anybody who’s made it will tell you, you can make it. Anyone who hasn’t made it will tell you, you can’t -John Mayer Success is simply a matter of luck. Ask any failure. -Earl Wilson It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388830 - 09/06/02 12:55 PM
Re: Chord names
|
songman
Serious Contributor
Registered: 09/27/01
Posts: 236
Loc: Sunland, Ca
|
Spider In Friggin' DEED! Too Much! Bob, you're the KING!
As a student of Bop, n' Blues n' Big Band Chord techniques, that's just too cool! Was there an Augmented 5th called the Cockaroache? Just kidding!! Thanks for Sharing !! TJ
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388831 - 09/18/02 07:15 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Mike Dunbar
JPF Mentor
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 8201
Loc: Nashville Tennessee
|
Wow, Two chords and twenty posts. By the time we get through the chord dictionary, we'll beat the lyric board lol.
Here's another favorite of mine, the min7b5, also known as the half-diminished seventh. It's the third chord in Bluesette. You hear it a lot as a passing chord moving down from a one to a three major in songs like Georgia on My Mind ( Gmaj7 F#m7b5 B7), or Western Auto...I mean Desperado (F#m7b5 B7 Em [sounds suspiciously like Rachmaninoff]). I used it in a song called Moon Full of Blues. Anyone else use it?
------------------
Mike Dunbar Music
_________________________
Anybody who’s made it will tell you, you can make it. Anyone who hasn’t made it will tell you, you can’t -John Mayer Success is simply a matter of luck. Ask any failure. -Earl Wilson It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388832 - 09/18/02 08:05 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Bob Young
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 4372
Loc: chicago il usa
|
Ahhh Mike...Great minds...
I use it in a turnaround in my "Moon" song..
The Same Old Moon in the key of G..
Bm7flat5..E7flat5/Bflat..Am7flat5..Aflat7flat5..resolving to Gmaj7...
I know I could call that E7flat5 over Bflat a Bflat7flat5 but Keyboard guys give me a cooler voicing when I call it an E7..
Sometimes the Bass will play a D against that Aflat finisher..it sounds cool !
Bob
Jeez Mike...we sound like we know what the Hell we're talking about....they're gonna take away all our guitar club privileges !
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388833 - 09/18/02 08:30 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Mike Dunbar
JPF Mentor
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 8201
Loc: Nashville Tennessee
|
Bob,
Turn in your capo.
You've brought up another twist. Voicings. I've always loved to play, for example, an Fm/Bb in the key of C. As an inside joke to my friend, steel player, Mike Daly (Hank Jr, Hayseed Dixie, Gibson Miller Band), whenever we'd read a four minor I'd always play a flat seven on the bass. We'd laugh like crazy and whatever bandleader would think we were musical morons.
Here's one for someone other than Bob (I know you'll get it in a heartbeat lol):
What do you call the Fm/Bb with Bb as the root? With F as the root?
------------------
Mike Dunbar Music
[This message has been edited by Mike Dunbar (edited 09-18-2002).]
_________________________
Anybody who’s made it will tell you, you can make it. Anyone who hasn’t made it will tell you, you can’t -John Mayer Success is simply a matter of luck. Ask any failure. -Earl Wilson It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388834 - 09/18/02 10:52 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Bob Young
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 4372
Loc: chicago il usa
|
Well...
If I've got your Nashville numbers deciphered correctly..I think we do the same thing....
If we're in..let's say key of C..and an F minor shows up we'll probably go ahead and play the F minor first time around...second time thru it's liable to turn into a Bb9....izzat the same thing ?
(if its one bar of 4/4 we'll split it..2 beats F minor, 2 beats Bb9)
Bob (I'm so cornfuzed) Young
link to "Same Old Moon" below
http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3U.m3u?ID=39794&q=Lo (lo-fi)
http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3U.m3u?ID=39794&q=Hi (hi-fi or dwnload)
[This message has been edited by bob young (edited 09-19-2002).]
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388835 - 09/19/02 06:07 AM
Re: Chord names
|
Mike Dunbar
JPF Mentor
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 8201
Loc: Nashville Tennessee
|
Hey Bob,
Well, here's the rub: if you look at your garden variety Fminor with a Bb in the bass, it looks like an Fminor with an add 11 with the 11 in the bass.
However, if you analyze it (I've always thought it was funny that only the anal analyze) with the Bb in the root, then there is no third. Bb F Ab C...no D or Db which could make it an incomplete Bb9 or a Bb7sus2.
But, I go back to your original statement. If I write it as an Fminor with the Bb in the bass, I'm more likely to get the voicing right.
------------------
Mike Dunbar Music
_________________________
Anybody who’s made it will tell you, you can make it. Anyone who hasn’t made it will tell you, you can’t -John Mayer Success is simply a matter of luck. Ask any failure. -Earl Wilson It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388836 - 09/19/02 07:24 AM
Re: Chord names
|
Bob Young
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 4372
Loc: chicago il usa
|
Mike...
I wasn't trying to name your chord...
I was referring to that deal about the 4minor chord...
I got a name for your chord...I'm just hodin' onto it for a bit to see if anybody agrees..
Bob
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388837 - 09/19/02 03:29 PM
Re: Chord names
|
songman
Serious Contributor
Registered: 09/27/01
Posts: 236
Loc: Sunland, Ca
|
OK, You two guys are driving me nuts!! I realize the existence of Chord Synonyms to where one chord fingering can be called two (maybe three I dunno) different chords. I can do the math, but does'nt it all relate to the particular chart and orirginal Key signature as to which chord we will call it? Then again I might be missing the point. At any rate, good fodder for thought, Mr. Dunbar's quite right, Bob you should consider writing a book. You're stories here on this board are quite well written in a very personal vein and just touch the heart bubba! I mean if that hack Willie Moseley from the pages of Vintage Guitar Magazine (nothing personal Willie!) has three, maybe four books published of so much dribble, I dunno. I'd find out who his publisher is..... In the meantime I like using the minor 7b5's as a descending a passing chord in Blues turnarounds. All The Best , TJ Sullivan
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388838 - 09/19/02 04:21 PM
Re: Chord names
|
TrumanCoyote
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 2096
|
Originally posted by Mike Dunbar:
Bob,
What do you call the Fm/Bb with Bb as the root?
I'd call it Ab/Bb (or b7/1).
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388839 - 09/19/02 04:46 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Bob Young
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 4372
Loc: chicago il usa
|
You're absolutely right Songman..but..in the real world where ya gotta drop a chart in front of keyboard players or guitar players that may not be familiar with what you're looking for in voicings or inversions sometimes you make choices along those lines.
I've got travelling charts for rhythm players that refer to a chord as F#m7b5 for the keys and Am/f# for the guitar player..
That's cos' experience has taught me that even tho the notes are the same..the guys will voice it differently and it'll come out more along the lines of what I'm looking for.
sounds dopey and illogical...but HEY..I'm an illogical dope !
Wish I was in sunny California !
bob
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388840 - 09/19/02 06:47 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Graham Henderson
Top 10 Poster
Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 13618
Loc: Esperance. West Australia
|
Couple of chords for ytou guys please.
second fret as fingered.
G C E A# B G.
next one Fouth fret as fingered.
A D F# C B A.
Regards.
Graham
------------------
http://www.songramp.com/homepage.ez?Who=grahamhenderson
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388841 - 09/20/02 03:19 AM
Re: Chord names
|
Bob Young
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 4372
Loc: chicago il usa
|
Graham..
Hey Cobber !....
How many fingers have you got on that left hand ?
Bob
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388842 - 09/20/02 04:46 AM
Re: Chord names
|
Graham Henderson
Top 10 Poster
Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 13618
Loc: Esperance. West Australia
|
Six like any normal person of course Bob.
Fingering for the first is forefinger bridging strings six and five on third fret, middle finger second fret fourth string, Ring finger third fret third string, second string open, first string third fret.
It is a first fret B7th shape moved up one fret and including the sixth string.
I include the sixth string in a B7th most times too to give me a B7th/F#.
I play both of them in the instrumental break on Nondoonya Blues on Soundclick.
Also use the same shape in that on the sixth fret to give me higher E7th. Do the same on the out.
G0 from a first fret E to the sixth fret one then back again.
I like how it sounds. When played well of course.
Take care Cobber.
Graham (real hand full)H
PS . forgot to mention. That six is not counting the thumb of course.
Got another ask to while I'm here. Is a biad a chord that includes on a gay note from time to time? Thanks again. G
------------------
http://www.songramp.com/homepage.ez?Who=grahamhenderson
[This message has been edited by Graham (edited 09-20-2002).]
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388843 - 09/20/02 08:36 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Mike Dunbar
JPF Mentor
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 8201
Loc: Nashville Tennessee
|
Graham,
I'm looking at them as tone clusters. A tone cluster is a group of notes that don't all belong in one key (the most famous tone cluster is the common diminished chord, the fully diminished seventh.)
In the first one, I'd call that a Bb instead of an A#. They sound beautifully twisted to me.
You could perhaps call them a dominant/major seven.
G fifth, C root, E third, Bb dominant seven, B major seven, C fifth...same pattern for the next.
Or perhaps you could call them a Cgraham and a Dgraham.
_________________________
Anybody who’s made it will tell you, you can make it. Anyone who hasn’t made it will tell you, you can’t -John Mayer Success is simply a matter of luck. Ask any failure. -Earl Wilson It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388844 - 09/21/02 04:28 AM
Re: Chord names
|
Graham Henderson
Top 10 Poster
Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 13618
Loc: Esperance. West Australia
|
Thanks Mike. can't claim any originality to them chords.
I got the first one from gery Silverman and Skip James. Skip calls it a c7+7. Or is that a c7-7? I forget. I found the other one by sliding the shape up and down the fret board.
Skip also calles it the lifeblood of blues and I find it a great bridge twix B7 and E. Use it in E minor too.
Use it a lot as my fence post fingers and work dammaged hands don't contribute to barre chords, but i can hold a B7th shape, and use the fore finger on the two top stings to give me the slash bass thing. fat fingers also foul the B string enough that it doesn't clunk in the posisions it doesn't work. Well good enough for my purposes anyway.
When i was using the G-VOX guitar midi bridge, i used to edit them either out or slide them to a compatable note.
Thank Mike. I asked because no musoes I know have ever used them until they saw me using them and liked them.
Regards.
Graham
------------------
http://www.songramp.com/homepage.ez?Who=grahamhenderson
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388845 - 09/21/02 06:53 AM
Re: Chord names
|
Mike Dunbar
JPF Mentor
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 8201
Loc: Nashville Tennessee
|
Graham,
Yeah, most of the blues cats began using it out of convenience. They'd run the B7 chord up one fret, leaving the open B note ring, then they'd run it back down. usually at the end of a turn-around. It would go something like:
E E7 A Am E Cgraham B7
------------------
Mike Dunbar Music
_________________________
Anybody who’s made it will tell you, you can make it. Anyone who hasn’t made it will tell you, you can’t -John Mayer Success is simply a matter of luck. Ask any failure. -Earl Wilson It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388846 - 09/21/02 10:52 AM
Re: Chord names
|
Graham Henderson
Top 10 Poster
Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 13618
Loc: Esperance. West Australia
|
never tried it with an A minor Mike. Will give it a go.
I sometimes go C7-7 B7 E fro a non final cadance.
Now I can tell the local blokes they just don't cut it as blues cats yet.
Regards.
Graham
------------------
http://www.songramp.com/homepage.ez?Who=grahamhenderson
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388847 - 09/22/02 09:09 AM
Re: Chord names
|
TrumanCoyote
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 2096
|
How about this one. From low to high (on guitar) it is:
C
F#
G
B
E
The F# pushing against the G is lovely.
I use it as a 4 chord in "Moon River" in G.
Gmaj7 Em7 C(?) Gmaj7
C(?) Gmaj7 Adim D7 etc.....
What is its name?
[This message has been edited by TrumanCoyote (edited 09-22-2002).]
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388848 - 09/22/02 06:35 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Mike Dunbar
JPF Mentor
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 8201
Loc: Nashville Tennessee
|
Truman,
Pretty chord, I'm whistling it now. Since you already call it a 4 in G, I'll tackle it with the C in the root.
If you play all the notes at once, I'd call it a Cmaj7add#11. C...root; F#...sharp eleven; G five; B seven (major seven); and E third.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if you play it as an arpeggio, slowly strumming it from bass to treble on the guitar. Then, I'd call it a C major seven with the F# being a passing tone moving to the fifth. The F# is in the key of G and it moves elegantly to the G, the fifth of the Cmaj7 chord.
Any other ideas on this?
------------------
Mike Dunbar Music
_________________________
Anybody who’s made it will tell you, you can make it. Anyone who hasn’t made it will tell you, you can’t -John Mayer Success is simply a matter of luck. Ask any failure. -Earl Wilson It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388849 - 09/22/02 09:19 PM
Re: Chord names
|
Graham Henderson
Top 10 Poster
Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 13618
Loc: Esperance. West Australia
|
This one makes the CGrahamth look a piece of cake Don't it Mike.
I fiddled with it and decided it was played in appegio as I couldn't get a sound I liked out of it in a stum.
Didn't come up with a name though.
Regards.
Graham
------------------
http://www.songramp.com/homepage.ez?Who=grahamhenderson
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388850 - 09/23/02 02:23 PM
Re: Chord names
|
kruzty
Casual Observer
Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 28
Loc: Westfield, IN
|
I use it in "Crazy." I also use a MinMaj7, which has a nice quality to it.
Andy
Originally posted by Mike Dunbar:
Here's another favorite of mine, the min7b5, also known as the half-diminished seventh.
...
Anyone else use it?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#388851 - 09/24/02 09:50 AM
Re: Chord names
|
TrumanCoyote
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 2096
|
Originally posted by Mike Dunbar:
Truman,
However, I wouldn't be surprised if you play it as an arpeggio, slowly strumming it from bass to treble on the guitar.
Precisely, Mike. Good call.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#576915 - 01/18/08 11:34 PM
Re: Chord names
[Re: TrumanCoyote]
|
Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
|
I thought I'd bring back some golden oldies! = )
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#577309 - 01/20/08 01:17 PM
Re: Chord names
[Re: Brian Austin Whitney]
|
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
|
What a fun read! That spider chord...tres cool!
I like to use the "Hendrix chord" when playing "Sittin' On the Dock of the Bay", just after the line "...watchin' the tide roll away". Sounds very nice there.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#579002 - 01/25/08 10:01 AM
Re: Chord names
[Re: Mark Kaufman]
|
Derek Hines
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 4809
Loc: United States Oregon
|
You know what's interesting is that hendix chord still lives on even in popular music. Listen to "Under the Bridge" By Red Hot Chili Peppers it's the chord at the end of the verse right before the chorus. What a sweet ring it has.
Derek
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#579071 - 01/25/08 02:06 PM
Re: Chord names
[Re: Derek Hines]
|
Mark Kaufman
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 5927
Loc: Minneapolis
|
You know what's interesting is that hendix chord still lives on even in popular music. Listen to "Under the Bridge" By Red Hot Chili Peppers it's the chord at the end of the verse right before the chorus. What a sweet ring it has.
Derek
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#579230 - 01/26/08 03:35 AM
Re: Chord names
[Re: Mark Kaufman]
|
mattbanx
Serious Contributor
Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 1384
Loc: Northern Minnesota
|
I recall metal musicians I grew up with doing a lot of power chords and appregrios.
Can't finger like that on my beat up sixties guiar. I like to dig into the strings and if I ever consider being a performing musician, I can fly on these modern guitars from building up limber in my fingers, cause' I'm not too coordinated otherwise.
But I notice that a lot of these weird, classic rock songs have a lot of diads and triads, fretted slightly off the major scale.
I used to like transposing metal songs to my synth and making songs based on that. Kind of made it dark and gothy. Almost strangely harmonious.
I did an old gospel folk inspired recording that I came up with from practicing Pink Floyd's Hey You (off their album The Wall).
I don't have a 12 string and had to open tune to get the sound that more closely approximated what I was looking for.
Not for a professional setting, but I have come up with a lot of weird sounding chords that way.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#579231 - 01/26/08 04:44 AM
Re: Chord names
[Re: mattbanx]
|
Calvin
Top 10 Poster
Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 13419
Loc: Okeechobee, Florida U.S.A.
|
Hello !
Just wanted to jump in here and say I'm enjoying the stories & the knowledge from this thread.
Very informative.
Calvin
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/calvinstewart
_________________________
Calvin
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#579243 - 01/26/08 07:08 AM
Re: Chord names
[Re: Mark Kaufman]
|
Derek Hines
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 4809
Loc: United States Oregon
|
You know Mark
I think your right it's in a different position for sure. And it definitly sounds prettier. It almost reminds me of surf music when they'd hit that one chord then use the whammy to drop it down a little. I am not sure what chord it is but Dick Dale seemed to use it quite a bit.
Derek
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#579259 - 01/26/08 09:14 AM
Re: Chord names
[Re: Derek Hines]
|
Mike Dunbar
JPF Mentor
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 8201
Loc: Nashville Tennessee
|
One of the Dick Dale "whammy" chords was a minor add nine, sometimes in the second inversion, often played as an arpeggio, then "whammied."
_________________________
Anybody who’s made it will tell you, you can make it. Anyone who hasn’t made it will tell you, you can’t -John Mayer Success is simply a matter of luck. Ask any failure. -Earl Wilson It's only music. -niteshift Mike Dunbar Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: Brian Austin Whitney, Mike Dunbar, Kevin Emmrich
|
|
We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.
|
|
19784 Members
120 Forums
101401 Topics
942710 Posts
Max Online: 1456 @ 04/10/08 05:00 PM
|
|
|
