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#388563 - 07/01/06 05:17 AM
Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Hi Folks,
It took me all night to tabulate the totals, but we have the Top 50 Lyrics from Round 1 that are moving to round 2 of this year's Lyric Award process. I have already created a post listing all 50, and will list them by title and writer here below as well for quicker reference.
475 of 505 Lyrics received votes this year. Competition was fierce (some of my personal favorites didn't even make it to round 2). I will be posting instructions on how to vote in Round 2 to help get the Top 50 down to the 20 final nominees who will be competing for the 2006 Best Lyric Award in Hollywood at the 2006 JPF Music Awards show on November 4th, 2006. Watch the message board for info on how to vote.
Obviously those who moved forward to Round 2 are no longer eligible to vote in that category, but everyone else who participated is welcome and encouraged to help us get it down to the final 20. (We have 72 other categories you're welcome to vote in in the final round.. watch the newsletter for more info on that).
Congrats to those who moved on to Round 2 and thanks to all of you who participated and especially those of you who took the time to vote. Many of you waited til the last minute to vote, but we had a good overall response in the end.
Here's the Lyric Titles and Writers that are moving on to round 2. The entire lyrics are also posted on the site and I will link the page once it's posted here.
-----------------------------------------
In Alphabetical Lyric Title Order:
A Little Flour Sack Dress Lori J. Stillwell
A Thousand Miles Away Alan D. David
Anita's Cookie Jar Emily Sanders
Ballerina Beautiful Patricia Baker
Blood on the Sword V. Pellerano
Bonnie & Clyde Michael Massimo
Breathe Kathy Nelson
Friday Night at the Ice Cream Stand Charlie Cheney
Grandma Held the Bible (Grandpa Held the Snakes) Mike Murray
How I'll Say Good-bye Tony Gunter
I Remember Clay County Susan Nikas
I Wish You Didn't Trust Me So Much Marvin Adcock & John Bizzack
If I Had the Copyright Carla Ulbrich
Just A Guitar Dan Hazlett
Just One More Marty Helly
KA-BLAM Cindy Lucas
Kickin' Stones Rik Yerzik
Kiss Kiss Andrea Louise
Little Brown Bear Kaley Willow
Lone Starry Night Ande Rasmussen & John Arthur Martinez
Love Lines J. Bevington
Lulu's Lament Zak Morgan
Me Shelley Raymond
Midnight Café Phillip A. Pearson
Mistakes Like Me Melody Guy & Tom Kimmel
Nobody's Fool Amanda Graves
Only One Race (The Human Race) Francis Juma
Orange Tabby (It’s the Same Old Pain) Bobbie Gallup
Praying for Rain Mark Houghtaling
Six Foot Two Mem’ry Judy Hollier
So Many Young Men Matthew Temple
The Ballad of Bob Dylan Norman Lamont
The Crowd Doug Barnett
The Invasion Of Chelsea Shandy Lawson
The Margarita Song Dennis J. DeRenzo
The Power of Calling Your Name Harriet Ames
The Same Mary Kathy Hussey
The Southern Cross John Thomson
This Kind Of Love Never Ends Tammy Edwards
Two Pairs of Feet Annie Tennisco & Mike Amason
Wanderlust Scott W. Campbell
When Vikki Flawith
When You Remember Me Renee Safier
Where All Kids Make the Team Jules J. Dobrowolski
Where Did I Go Right Chuck Crowe
Whiskey Wild Bayou Child Michael Thomas Ellis
Will You Give Me Time? Laura Sandage
Within the Giant's Eye? Deb Cavanaugh
You Can't Leave It Behind Gregory Becker
Younger by Moonlight Charles Ronald Wyvill
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney 
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#388564 - 07/01/06 05:18 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Here's the link to the complete lyrics in Round 2: http://www.justplainfolks.org/ubb/Forum59/HTML/000025.html
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#388565 - 07/01/06 11:20 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Bill Robinson
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6190
Loc: Curmudgeonville, Tn
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Thanks for the hard work you put into this. I can't even imagine finding the time or energy.
Just out of curiosity will you be posting the entire list with their totals. I would like to know how my own song did but also am curious how some of the others did. I had several that I thought were really great and they did not make it.
Given the number of really good songs I am not surprised tho.
One thing that was a problem for me was some of the pages had a LOT of really good songs while other pages I had trouble finding 5 that I liked. I can see this could really skew the voting, I would have liked to be able to vote on the entire list. But I know that would have been difficult given time constraints.
Either way Thanks a bunch.
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http://www.soundclick.com/billrobinson
http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Bill
Live with a song in your heart
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#388566 - 07/01/06 02:51 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Bill,
Each year we discuss posting the list of vote totals and decide not to because it would mean embarrassing those at the bottom of the list which would be a very bad idea. It's also difficult to post vote totals because every page had a different number of voters so the point totals don't evenly match from one page to another.
The first year we did this we actually had everyone vote on every page. It didn't work very well. Few people had time to vote on all pages and often we'd get votes all from 1 page instead of spread across all 11... we had people who felt reading and voting on 50 was far too much work this year, let alone 505.
I did read through all 50 of the lyrics that made it to round 2. There were some I was a bit puzzled over, but many of them I could understand why they'd move forward. I also felt there were a few pages with a really large number of very strong lyrics. But since we only give awards to the top 6 in the end, we had a couple pages that went 7 deep meaning we should have given a fair shot even if the entire top 6 was on the same page. I had really wished there would have been room for 60 in the second round.. but I am sure had we gone 60 deep, then we'd be wishing we could go 70 and so on. You have to have a cut off at some point.
We have an interesting mix of lyric board regulars, music awards veterans and people who have never before appeared in either place. There seemed no advantage to being early or late on a page. It was interesting to see that our first JPF lyric award winner as well as a Grammy winner and Emmy winner and someone else with major lael cuts and even our current overall JPF Songwriter of The Year didn't make it to round two, yet some folks with no cuts or successes of any kind previously did.
That's what I love most about our awards. It's not just for the famous or successful.. everyone gets a fair shot. Your previous history or success or lack thereof makes no difference. We have the same dynamic in our other categories. Even Rock Hall of Famers and world famous artists have been eliminated in favor of folks just getting started. In my opinion, no one is more fair than we are. And when you compete against the top notch talent that enters our awards, I feel it means a lot when you rise to the top, or in this case, at least to the second round.
Congrats again to those who are still in the running. I am looking forward to seeing what happens next!
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#388568 - 07/01/06 06:20 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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jimmybearpearson
Casual Observer
Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 3
Loc: Raleigh, NC USA
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Brian (and the folks at JPF),
Thank you so much for all your hard work on this! It is a great labor of love, and benefits so many.
Thank you for the opportunity to participate both as a reviewer and a submitter. I'm looking forward to next year!
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- [ur]>http://
ursabear.com[/url] My
Music - http://
littleblackstang.com
My number one "GUITAR" :-)
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#388569 - 07/01/06 06:46 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Hoagie
Casual Observer
Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 10
Loc: Malibu
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Bill wrote: "I would like to know how my own song did but also am curious how some of the others did."
Maybe a good way to enable people to explore the results would be to append the first-round numbers (lyric no. and page) to the Top 50 list, in parentheses. Maybe even make an alternate version of the list reordered by original page number.
That way a voter could see which lyrics won from the page she voted on, and, as a writer, she could see which lyrics on her own page made the cut.
Anyway, some way to see how the original pages shook out could provide transparency to the process, and would likely encourage increased voter participation in the final round, by increasing one's sense of participation in the outcome.
Cheers,
Hoagie
[This message has been edited by Hoagie (edited 07-01-2006).]
_________________________
seamonstersounds [dot] com
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#388570 - 07/01/06 07:17 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Hoagie,
If we listed how individual songs did in the original round, people would have an unavoidable bias based on that. If you knew what songs finished first and which ones barely got in at the bottom, it's impossible to ignore that knowledge in the next round. It also opens up things for people to argue "hey.. my lyric was better than that lyric" and frankly, there's no time and energy to have those arguments with people.
In the second Round, all lyrics are back to square one. We don't want to add undue influence on any of them good or bad for the next round of voting. Even though I personally would have picked some different lyrics to move forward, the entire point of this is that my opinion, nor any other individuals, doesn't matter. The group collectively moved those specific lyrics forward.
Even the lyric which received 2 times more vote points than any other lyric on any other page had 13 judges not even vote for it in their top 5. There's no good way to explain or even discuss the merit of how people voted because there's no qualitative right or wrong vote. We had lyrics that received only a single vote, but they were 1st place votes. Only 30 of 505 lyrics received zero votes. That's pretty amazing. I we had a different set of judges, it's possible that we'd have a very different Top 50. So no one should get depressed or feel they failed because they didn't make the Top 50. On the other hand, those who did, should be happy that among their peers, they finished high enough to move on. There's a particular lyric that received zero votes that I thought was very well written. Who knows why no one else liked it.. but to expose that info might be a big downer for the writer and it serves no real purpose.
To me, the best part of this process is the learning potential. What made YOU choose the lyrics you chose to move forward? Do your own lyrics possess those qualities? Was it the first line? The title? The length? Often as creators we spend very little time assessing the work of others. Often our choices here teach us more about our own work and what we need to do to improve than it does about stuff we picked or didn't pick.
So don't be upset if you didn't make it to the next round. Instead, study what made those lyrics move forward and learn. Next time, perhaps you'd submit a different lyric (that's another observation I have.. some amazingly talented writers here submitted what I thought was some of their very worst work.. why is it that people do that? It's a mystery that repeats often, but if you can learn NOT to put your worst stuff forward, you'll likely have more success in other opportunities).
I am happy to discuss these concepts as I think we might all learn from the exchange.
Thanks again to those to participated!
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#388571 - 07/01/06 08:03 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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TaoJones
Casual Observer
Registered: 11/11/05
Posts: 4
Loc: Mississauga, Ont. Canada
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I know what works (not in a personal sense) and I know what doesn't. I don't believe this is a fair judgement of songwriting. Just Anyone who thinks they are a songwriter does not in the end determine the success of my song. Sour Grapes?.. yeah, I suppose. I suppose I expected better judgement. I have read every one of the winners some are good, whoo hoo for you!
It was fun though Thanks for the effort!
_________________________
"Change is the only constant" Lao Tsu
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#388572 - 07/01/06 08:32 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Hoagie
Casual Observer
Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 10
Loc: Malibu
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Hi Brian,
Hmmm, I'm not suggesting that you list how individual songs did; just that you might append the original song numbers to the current winners so that we can see which ones made it from which page. Maybe re-read my message.
BTW, I have nothing to be upset about -- I'm quite pleased by the outcome so far!
Cheers,
Hoagie
_________________________
seamonstersounds [dot] com
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#388573 - 07/01/06 10:12 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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I understood what you indicated. I just don't think pointing that page X got 3 entries and page Y got 7 and page Z got 5. Not sure how that will improve the process? If someone really feels the need to know what the original pages were, the original list is still there. I just don't want someone to think songs from one page must be better or worse than another page because more were selected from one than the other. That's my point.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#388574 - 07/01/06 10:14 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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I've gotten over a dozen requests already to know where someone finished on a page. If you really really must know, email me at jpnotes@aol.com and give me your lyric # and page and I will tell you. But please don't post that info or ask where others finished.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#388575 - 07/01/06 10:17 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Douglas Murphy
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 01/11/09
Posts: 4758
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Congrads. to those making it to round #2. Good Luck to you all.
Douglas
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#388576 - 07/01/06 11:14 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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HauserJustin
Serious Contributor
Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 137
Loc: OHIO
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Congratulation to all of you moving on to round 2! Thanks for all the effort Brian. Good luck to everyone.
Regards,
Justin.
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#388577 - 07/01/06 11:52 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Eyesofapoet
Casual Observer
Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 30
Loc: Nashville, TN, USA
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Wow!! This is overwhelming. I read all of the lyrics that were on the page with mine and I didn’t really think I would make it to round 2. Thank you all so much. This is the first time I have ever entered a lyric contest. Is it ok to post a link to the mp3 so folks can hear the song?
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"the meek shall inherit the Earth because the adventurous will have left" ©2002 matthew temple...
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#388578 - 07/02/06 04:39 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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You can post a link to an mp3 file any time you want on the mp3 feedback forum. Since this is the Lyric only category (and the only non audio category in our awards) we don't want the demos involved with judges etc.. We just want folks to focus on the written words.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#388579 - 07/03/06 05:01 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Samuel Harris
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 3618
Loc: Burleson, Texas
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I was very suprised that some lyrics didn't make the list; and equally suprised to see some lyrics on the list that I felt didn't stand a chance. At least my favorite made it. Just for fun, here are a few that I thought should have passed:
Yardsale 057 (too simple?)
Are you ready 064 (too religeous?)
Deadmans's bay 088 (too controversial?)
Forgive 223 (too many metaphors?)
That's why I never get
the blues 225 (too in your face?)
Like everybody else 227 (too ordinary?)
[This message has been edited by nashvillecat (edited 07-06-2006).]
_________________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
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#388580 - 07/05/06 09:35 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Marty Helly
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 06/07/01
Posts: 2008
Loc: Florence, MA, USA
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Two out of my five picks advanced.
One of the great things about this is seeing where you agree and disagree with the choices. What moves you in a lyric is entirely based on your perspective, preferences and prejudices. At times there are very well crafted lyrics where the subject just says nothing to me. In others a strong story is obscured by poor writing. It always seems easy to pick the top 20 or so out of 50, but then narrowing it down to just a handful is the difficult part.
My personal preference - given this is a lyric only competition - would be for folks not to post mp3's until after the contest is over. I took the song I posted in the contest off my homepage and myspace page when the contest started.
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Marty my home
Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you
recognize a mistake when you make it again!
_________________________
Marty my home Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again!
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#388581 - 07/05/06 01:48 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Congrats to the whole lot ! Some for entering , some for winning , so far and for those who voted.
Thanks to Brian for putting it on and all the hard work put in by him and volunteers.
To those unhappy, did you vote? 6 pts would have made a world of difference...
Pete
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#388582 - 07/05/06 02:47 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Bill Robinson
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6190
Loc: Curmudgeonville, Tn
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This has been interesting to say the least. I was surprised at a few songs that did not make the cut. But there are a lot of really good songs in the competition.
Pete wrote; To those unhappy, did you vote? 6 pts would have made a world of difference...
Do you really think so. I don't. I did a little math, and here's my thought.
If your song is on a page with 10 or so really top notch songs it is likely that the number one picks on that page would be spread out among those songs fairly evenly. So, 10 great songs, 50 voters. 5 number one votes per song would be 25 votes for each.
Add 6 points for voting 31 points
If your song was on a page that had only two great songs and the rest just so so, those two great songs would receive most of the number one votes. 50 voters 2 songs, 25 votes at 5 points each=125 votes for each.
Add 6 points for voting 131 points.
This might be an extreme case but that's how I see it. Or maybe I am just looking at it wrong. I think what page you were on made more difference than anything.
But, The songs that made it deserved it. They are all pretty darn good. No sour grapes here. I enjoyed the whole experience. I read some songs that I thought were great and they did not make the cut.
Just my thoughts on it.
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http://www.soundclick.com/billrobinson
http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Bill
Live with a song in your heart
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#388583 - 07/06/06 10:03 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Marty Helly
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 06/07/01
Posts: 2008
Loc: Florence, MA, USA
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Bill -
Using your analysis - I'd think taking the time to vote could make a difference. If 10 songs each got 25 points from the voters on the page and those who's authors also voted got an extra 6, which ones have a chance of moving on?
And for those who haven't moved on - I hope you stay involved in the process. You still get to help decide the eventual winners.
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Marty my home
Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you
recognize a mistake when you make it again!
_________________________
Marty my home Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again!
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#388584 - 07/06/06 11:24 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Emily Sanders
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 4612
Loc: Santa Monica, CA
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Voting always involves some level of subjectivity. That's why many people don't see eye to eye on the results.
Many of the other music awards programs don't have this type of judging; JPF involves many more people in the process - from so many different segments of the music population... That's why there are so MANY more different artistic interpretations of what is "great."
One of the things I've learned from reading and critiquing lyics on these boards - is that lyrics can be great in many ways. Sometimes I fall in love with a lyric because it expresses something I couldn't quite do myself. Other times, I am drawn to a lyric because of it's well crafted structure....or the humor in it...or the story.... And...many times I love a lyric because it is simply so unique...so many reasons that a lyric can be considered a "winner." Whether or not a lyric places in the awards, I think the talent on these boards, and the comraderie between writers - is the true "winner' here 
Emily
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http://emilysanders.net
[This message has been edited by Emily Sanders (edited 07-06-2006).]
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#388586 - 07/06/06 06:17 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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FYI:
There would have been app. 5-6 lyrics that would have made it to round 2 if they have only voted.
Also, there were 4 lyrics, out of 50 that didn't vote and still made it to the next round. One barely made it and almost lost it's chance to advance because of it. The other 3 were comfortably in regardless.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#388587 - 07/06/06 11:08 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Linda Anthony
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 10/25/03
Posts: 1589
Loc: Maine
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I'm a little late for the party but congrats anyway everyone! I was very pleased to see my absolute favorite lyric that I voted number one has made it to round 2....awesome and good luck the rest of the way through! Linda A.
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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=429263
you think you can, or you think you can't; you are right!"
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#388588 - 07/08/06 12:43 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Gypsy Picker
Casual Observer
Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 32
Loc: Amherst, NY
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Congrats to all Round 2'ers. I'm a bit puzzled, and amused, that a particular lyric advanced. No disrespect to the author, but the lyric itself is vulgar and pedestrian. I may well have finished dead last, but I feel better knowing that those who voted the page my lyric was on don't collectively share my sensibilities of what makes a good song. Good luck to all.
(edited to remove the lyric title so as not to interfere with the contest)
[This message has been edited by Gypsy Picker (edited 07-08-2006).]
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#388589 - 07/08/06 01:19 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Gypsy,
I am guessing the lyric you're describing is the novelty lyric that made it through. That writer is actually pretty successful in her genre with a lot of airplay including regular appearances on Dr. Demento. I was actually happy to see more than just "country" lyrics forwarded, even though the majority of lyrics did fall into that realm that moved forward. We have the most diverse music awards in the world (currently well over 70 genres) and in my opinion, I think it's important to get beyond the predictable country/pop/contemp ballad format that probably 90% of the entries fell under. We had no rap lyrics (even though it was the second largest genre in the general awards this year) which was unfortunate. There's great work in all genres and the fact that a novelty lyric and a childrens lyric (by another entrant) made it to round 2 in my opinion is a good thing. It shows the voters were open to something out of the comforts of the typical.
That said, I found several lyrics that moved on to be puzzling myself. Simply because there were similar lyrics that were better written in my opinion. But when something out of the norm makes it, to me, there's less to question. When we choose nominees in the music categories, we intentionally make room for diversity and orginality in a given genre. Sometimes those songs do poorly in the final voting, but they also sometimes win big simply because they aren't generic and typical. The fact that all the "offensive" words in that lyric were blanked out means that only the reader can insert the offensive material themselves. Something to keep in mind if you were offended. It was in your own head.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#388590 - 07/08/06 01:53 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Gypsy Picker
Casual Observer
Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 32
Loc: Amherst, NY
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I think the diversity in lyrics here is wonderful, and I wasn't so much offended as surprised. As this was my first contest of this sort, I purposefully submitted a lyric that I felt was not my best, and also a bit esoteric - perhaps with the notion of protecting myself in the event my best work didn't advance. Funny, but it worked - it would have felt good to advance, but I think the experience of not advancing has been helpful to me in that there certainly is some disappointment, but no resentment or sour grapes. I'll give it a go again next year (with a more accessible lyric) comfortable with the foreknowledge that if I don't advance, it won't crush me. Thanks for all your hard work, Brian.
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#388591 - 07/08/06 03:00 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Doug/Liszt Laughing
Serious Contributor
Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 981
Loc: Indiana
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I loved that lyric...it is very funny and well written - and it stood out. Guess if it wins it'll have to have the JPF "Explicit Material" warning on it...hehe
You know, I don't follow my own advice unfortunately, but I guess in entering a lyric contest to me the entry should be something out of the norm. I have a hard time voting for something that has a boring, same o same o topic. Now, that messed me up in first round voting, because I voted for a few things that had a cool topic, but in hindsight they actually are not very well written, so a few of my first round votes I would change. I am very happy about my second round voting.
Now, the lyric I entered I think is cool, and I had the song running in my head, that is why I entered it, but it's probably not the best thing I could have entered. Which is stupid of me. But, I don't think I'm the only person who did that. There is one person who is an outstanding songwriter with a long track record, who has a publishing deal and who is an amazing artist, but this person in my opinion didn't enter their best work. They entered something that makes an excellent song, especially with this person's talented delivery, but it is not in my opinion anywhere close to this person's best lyric - just on the face of reading a lyric. And there is another person whom I really respect, who has tons of indie cuts, and works with lots of indie songwriter's and artists, but in my opinion they did not enter their best lyric either. They entered something that made a great song I bet, but as a lyric to win a lyric contest, to me it doesn't cut it. And then, on the other side, there is another person who I generally think has weak lyrics a lot of the times, who entered a beautiful lyric that to me really painted a picture and an emotion, and I voted for that lyric in the 2nd round.
It's interesting....
[This message has been edited by Liszt Laughing (edited 07-08-2006).]
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Boo...my name is Doug
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#388592 - 07/09/06 12:03 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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The real benefit to the smartest entrants is what you learn regardless if you advance or not. It should teach you a lot on how you view things versus the majority. You can kick and scream about how the majority got it wrong, but if your goals are commerical rather than simply artistic, then the majority is really all that counts. I think when you're judging you realize what first catches YOUR attention when going through a lot of material and you should try to implement those things in your own lyrics the next time. You almost always learn more by viewing others work and how it does (or doesn't do) to apply to your own work than all the time you spend studying your own work directly. It's too hard to see it when you're so close. But you'll recognized strengths and weakenesses in others work that applies to yours and that's when the lightbulb often goes off.
As for people not entering their best work.. welcome to my world. You only got a little taste here. We originally considered letting people tell us which songs off their CD's to submit as their best songs for the awards to save us a lot of screening time. But the truth was that the artists themselves RARELY ever chose the songs we were actually interested in when we screened. Artists are the worst judges of what they do themselves. They may be excellent at critiquing others, but when it comes to their work, forget it. It's important for people to understand that. You CAN develop that skill, but usually it's long after you're writing hit songs because in my opinion that's an easier skill to develop than a clear headed accurate assessment of your own work.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#388593 - 07/09/06 08:54 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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"Tampa Stan" Good
Top 10 Poster
Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 26754
Loc: Tampa, Florida since 1973
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I've just finished readin' All 50 of the Winnin' Lyrics, & CONGRATS All of yas on an AWESOME Job!~
I find solace at not bein' among these Fine Folks this year by noting I've gotten to know 17 of the Current Winners over the last 3-4 years here at JPF..(& only knew 2 of this number before joining JPF.)
My Advice to all you Winners this year is Head Out to L.A. for the Awards Show & Get to Know Each Other..in-Person!!! (It's even More Fun than This Competiton..Trust me on that!)
"KUDOS" to Y'All and to Brian & Staff--
Big Chanpaigne-Hoistin' Hugs,
Stan
_________________________
I try to write For The Ages, yet I'm aware about the only 200-year-old Pop Songs that have survived are Nursery Rhymes....
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#388594 - 07/09/06 10:32 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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frahmes
Serious Contributor
Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 780
Loc: Nakuru, Kenya
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Thanks everyone for the votes. I am delighted that my lyric proceeded to round two..immediately after the death of my father. I think this was an answer from God to me that He has not left me..He has great plans. Thanks so much Brian for encouraging me to vote at my lowest moment..I had given up on the competition since I was mourning but Brian acted like my big brother! And I see the difference it has made. Thanks for the inspiration Brian. Jp is one of the greatest musical sites that I have ever been.
I pray for the best results as we move on. All I wanna sayto Folks is "Believe in Yourselves and od..and Work hard..nothing is impossible" My dad always used to tell me..No river can be too wide to cross, no mountain too high if you believe" . I have now realised that it is not what you are that matters..it is the legacy you leave behind that is really you!
Goodluck to all the folks who made it to round two..those who didn't there is always a second chance..in songwriting you never give up..all you do is learn to be better everyday in every situation. Keep writing.
I feel proud that I was the only lyricist from Kenya, probably Africa who made it through. that means there is talent here in Africa. Brian..think about an African or Kenyan Chapter in the times to come! I started songwriting only with a pen and inspiration..I learnt along the way. I have never set my eyes on a songwriting book! Believe me!!!!!!!
[This message has been edited by frahmes (edited 07-09-2006).]
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frankie
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#388595 - 07/09/06 01:45 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Doug/Liszt Laughing
Serious Contributor
Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 981
Loc: Indiana
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There IS talent in Africa. Absolutetly. I got to judge the African genre last contest and I really enjoyed it. Production-wise, I couldn't tell any difference from anything else I judged in other genres. The only drawback was I couldn't understand the lyrics, but it didn't matter, as my wife and I listened to that CD (with all the final entries) many, many times, just for enjoyment. To be honest, you can drop down in any part of the world and find talent on par with any other part, and these contests prove it.
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Boo...my name is Doug
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#388596 - 07/10/06 12:29 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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lark
Casual Observer
Registered: 06/02/01
Posts: 13
Loc: Albany, NY, USA
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Thanks to everyone who entered and voted in this process. I was surprised and pleased to have made it to Round 2. This is my first entry of any kind. I'm honored and satisfied. Many of the other entries were incredible.
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#388597 - 07/10/06 12:44 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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frahmes
Serious Contributor
Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 780
Loc: Nakuru, Kenya
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Hey thanks a lot for sharing your experience.
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frankie
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frankie
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#388598 - 07/11/06 07:35 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Softkrome
Serious Contributor
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 417
Loc: Lancaster, NY, U.S.A.
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Liszt, I have a bit of difficulty understasnding your logic regarding lyrics. This is supposed to be a SONG lyric contest. A lyric which would make a great song is exactly what we should be looking for. This is not a poetry or prose contest. You need to attempt to sound out the lyrics to estimate their worth to be made into a song. During my review of the fifty lyrics I had been assigned, I had difficulty finding even five worthy of becoming a song. I was forced into picking five of them in order to receive my six points. I must have been thinking along the same lines as others reviewing them because at least two of my picks made it to the second round. That doen't mean that I considered them excellent SONG lyrics. I guess I'll have to alter my thinking when I submit my next SONG lyric to the contest. I won't even consider that it needs to have meter, rhyme, or song structure.
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Softkrome
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#388599 - 07/11/06 08:31 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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frahmes
Serious Contributor
Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 780
Loc: Nakuru, Kenya
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Hello
I beg to differ slightly. You did something wrong voting for lyrics you considered unworthy. It looks like you just wanted your six bonus points! I guess it would have helped not voting so that only the lyrics that deserve entered round two.
I guess there are very good songwriters who entered their lyrics..plus those who were just starting - I can tell from the fact that Brian said that there were Grammy Award Winners and Nominees, Emmy Award Winners and those who have written songs cut by major labels! These guys surely do not just write prose and poetry..
The way you saw it does not necessarilly mean the gospel truth. Many things are considered in songwriting besides metre and rhyme..perhaps that's what made some guys go through to round two.
Please accept the people's verdict..I wouldn't mind if I were eliminated by the people in round two. After all some of the greatest songs were just written in a hurry to finish an album..some great musicians say this in interviews!
Everybody starts from somewhere..and may just end up that great songwriter who people initially overlooked!
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frankie
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frankie
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#388600 - 07/11/06 09:28 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Doug/Liszt Laughing
Serious Contributor
Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 981
Loc: Indiana
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Soft,
What I was trying to say is, there are lots of reasons a great song is a great song. The lyrics within the song are only a part of it. When the lyrics are taken out of the context of the song and just read on the face of them, they may not be as strong as the song as a whole (strong meaning something that makes complete sense and/or something that can win a lyric contest). That doesn't mean the lyric writer is a failure, on the contrary, they did something right, they networked, pitched, conjuled, whatever it took to get their vision of the world into a great song. And that is the important thing anyway, right? It just means I think some people choose the lyric they enter based on the fact it is in a great or successful song (which again can include many factors besides the lyrics), rather than truly considering the strength of the lyrics by themselves. And thus maybe enter something else (a deep cut on the album?) that maybe has stronger lyrics on the face of just the lyrics.
And many times a lyric that fits to a song isn't necessarily going to read strongly, and that is just the way it is. I love the CD "American Idiot" by Green Day, and I get the jist of what is going on, but if I sit down and read the lyrics, they often don't make complete sense. And that is the way it is a lot in rock. Are those guys unsuccessful lyric writers....well of course not...but they may not win a lyric contest...
So, I was not suggesting meter or rhyme or the fact it could possibly be a song lyric should be ignored. I look for that too, and I agree that in reading through in round one, you often think this couldn't possibly be a song.
[This message has been edited by Liszt Laughing (edited 07-11-2006).]
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Boo...my name is Doug
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#388601 - 07/11/06 10:01 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Marty Helly
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 06/07/01
Posts: 2008
Loc: Florence, MA, USA
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Soft -
If, in your opinion, you picked the "best 5" of the 50 you were assigned, you did it correctly. Even if you feel none of those made great songs, you still picked the ones that were the best of the page. It is numerically possible (although highly unlikely and statistically almost impossible) that the worst 50 songs could all be on one page and thus the 450th to 455th best songs in the contest have made it through to round two. But even if it occurred, they now have to go against the top from the other 10 pages, there is minimal chance they'll advance to becoming award nominees. Participating in the Round 2 voting is the best way to ensure its a valid contest.
Based on the results from the last two contests, I think it shakes out pretty well. check out these and see what you think:
2004: http://www.jpfolks.com/MusicAwards/2004/LyricWinners.htm
The lyrics for the 2004 round 2 are here: http://www.justplainfolks.org/ubb/Forum59/HTML/000015.html
2002: http://www.jpfolks.com/MusicAwards/LyricsWinner.htm
There are links on the list for the 2002 winners.
And if a lyric is submitted without meter, rhyme, or song structure, its not very likely that I'll have voted for it and I think a lot of the other folks participating will feel the same way.
[This message has been edited by Marty Helly (edited 07-11-2006).]
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Marty my home Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again!
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#388602 - 07/11/06 12:51 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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cuebald
Serious Contributor
Registered: 01/19/06
Posts: 399
Loc: Columbia, SC, USA
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Brian, how is the voting coming along, BTW? Are any coming in? Is there a frontrunner again? Deadline is Sunday.
Thanks, cue
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#388603 - 07/11/06 07:51 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Cue,
The voting is still pretty limited. We ended up with over 400 in round 1, but in round 2, only a dozen people have voted. Guess for many, if their lyric isn't in the running, they don't want to be bothered. Kind of sad really. We'll supplement the votes with our industry and some JPF staff members to cover for the lack of involvement from the participants who didn't make it to round 2. Last year we had about the same percentage vote in round 1 and 2 both. Not sure what is up with folks so far this year. Hopefully they are just procrastinating. I will send everyone a reminder and hopefully get some more of them to vote.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#388604 - 07/12/06 12:28 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Bill Robinson
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6190
Loc: Curmudgeonville, Tn
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Don't know about the rest of the folks but, I been tryin'. Mostly I just been getting a headache trying to read through them all and picking 5.
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http://www.soundclick.com/billrobinson
http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Bill
Live with a song in your heart
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#388605 - 07/12/06 03:14 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Herbie Gaines
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 2809
Loc: Chicago,IL, USA
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Sorry, I know this isn't going to be popular, but I totally agree with Soft. No sense repeating it, he said it so well. I struggled to even find 5 lyrics on my page that "sang to me". I remember this happened to me last time also. The lyric that "sang right off the page to me last year, didn't make it to round 2". I dunno, I guess I'm out of step with this thing. My eyes just glaze over trying to figure out how they would "sound" in music form. I just cannot think any other way. It is a "lyric" contest, not poems. This means to me that they need to be turned into songs. Alot of what made it threw me for such a loop, that I have lost interest in the contest. I'm sorry, but that's MY truth, take it as you will. I know you'll probably blast me Brian, go ahead. Most people just think stuff and don't bother to post it....then they don't have to deal with any repercussions. I think in order to understand and improve anything, you have to know what people are thinking.
I am not trying to undermine anything, I am not bitter that I didn't make it. I JUST DON'T GET IT. Sometimes this is just how life is. I still love JPF.
Herbie
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#388606 - 07/12/06 05:10 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Bill Robinson
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6190
Loc: Curmudgeonville, Tn
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While I understand you having a problem with lyrics that read like a poem or prose, I cannot see how you can presume to put "your" music to any lyric.
I too had a real problem with many of the lyrics. They were poems or prose, not songs. Many had poor structure, meter and rhyme schemes. Some I had no idea what the song was about. It made no sense.
But, I didn't try to put my own "music" to a song. I would not have any idea how the writer heard the song. What genre, tempo, rythm, etc.
I have read hundreds of lyrics on JPF and many times was completely surprised when I heard the lyric put to music. Lyrics that I often thought were not so good sang beautifully when put to music.
However, if a song lyric has no meter, Rhyme scheme, structure, or reads like a poem it is likely it won't sing well.
One thing that will stop me reading a lyric is Yoda Speak. I see that and I will stop reading. The other no go for me are cliches and songs not written in conversational language.
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http://www.soundclick.com/billrobinson
http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Bill
Live with a song in your heart
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#388607 - 07/12/06 10:21 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Herbie,
Not sure what your fear of being blasted is. Everyone has an opinion. I've said I personally didn't agree with all the lyrics that made it or all the lyrics that didn't. It's extremely rare, even with over 4000 judges last year, for someone to even get the top 5 Songs in a category correctly, let alone in order. The same thing can be said about the Lyric contest.
I just went back and looked. Out of 405 first round votes:
Zero had all of the top 5 lyrics in their top five.
1 had the top 4 lyrics on their page in their top 5
6 more had the top 3 lyrics in their top 5.
That's diversity. The same thing happens in our song categories. 2 awards ago, we had 1 single judge get all 5 songs in order that they voted for in a single category. You know who it was? A little kid voting as a fan in the Childrens category. He nailed 1 through 5 in order. In 5 years, that's the only time it has ever happened in any category. Last year's Song of the Year Pictures, by Steve Seskin, only got votes from roughly 60% (I think, I didn't look it up, sorry if my number is slightly off) of the votes in his Singer Songwriter category. That means 40% didn't even think he was in the top 5 out of the 20 nominated songs, let alone the best overall song of the year in all categories.
The fact that you had a page where you didn't like the lyrics isn't hard to believe. There were pages where I personally didn't care for the lyrics either. There's a lyric that finished first on a page that I never would have put in round 2. These facts are why I don't choose the nominees and winners alone. It would often be a completely different list. Everyone has different tastes. I think you should all think about that when a song on the radio plays next and you complain. The fact is those folks found a way to appeal to the widest number of fans. That's no small task. There is RARELY a song, in any genre, written by any human that can't be criticized effectively by someone. It's finding a way to reach the top of mass opinion that is intriguing. I think our awards offer some of both. During our screening process, we use a smaller and diverse collection of screener that we respect. We grab, each round, a huge number of songs and album in a huge array of diversity and then continue to filter them through more and more people. By the end, for a song or album to get a nomination, they have to survive 5 rounds of screening. To make it as a winner or top 6 finalist, they have to be approved by a gigantic collective of people, from fans, industry and peer groups. These judges rarely agree on anything. (I don't recall EVER seeing 2 judges vote on the same 5 songs in the same order ever, and that's even when we've had small genres with only a dozen songs nominated).
So Herbie, if you didn't like those lyrics, that's fine. I can take 50 terrible songs and still identify the 5 least terrible. (I've been a judge in MANY other well known song "contests" where there wasn't a single worthwhile song to vote on, but vote I must and I found things to separate those in the running and vote). Our awards are hardly in that category. If you tell me their honestly aren't 5 lyrics that "sing" for you in the top 50, then I must suggest that you might want to evaluate your own concepts. That's not an insult, it's just that I've actually heard more than 5 of the remaining lyrics in their song form and they can, in fact, be "sung." I didn't love all the top 50, but I am guessing in the right hands, ALL of them could be sung well.
But.. and this is important, that doesn't make your votes wrong. People like what they like. We tell folks to vote on what moves them. It IS rare that nothing moves someone, but we had 3 people with that complaint in the lyric category this year. I am curious if those same people, yourself included, would think that about the top 50 as well. If you do, then I'd also be curious as to what lyrics you would have expected to be in the Top 50 instead? Or if you felt that none of the 505 lyrics deserved it.
Interesting discussion. I would never believe the vote results if I didn't see the votes come in one at a time.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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#388608 - 07/13/06 01:55 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Herbie Gaines
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 2809
Loc: Chicago,IL, USA
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Ok, you're right, I'm sure I can find 5 in the top 50 I like---I just feel out of sync with the contest-- I guess in the same way that in a NCAA basketball pool, maybe most of my picks got knocked out early---or or the song I chose to perform at some function completely bombed--I'll take a fresh look
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#388609 - 07/13/06 06:17 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Joe Wrabek
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 11/28/03
Posts: 6178
Loc: Garibaldi, OR USA
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Bill, I think it would be fun to do a song that was *entirely* in Yodaspeak. Alien band for backup, of course. I suppose it'd have to be a love song (*another* love song?).
Some time ago on another site, where they were talking about the difficulty of writing songs about mundane things--like hamsters, say--I had suggested somebody try "Space Hamsters in Love." As far as I know, nobody ever did, and the idea's still up for grabs. Yodaspeak would work well for the lyrics...
Joe
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/7/joewrabek_music.htm
P.S. I should note--not to stray too far from the subject--that one of my 5 picks did make it to Round Two, so I feel my judgmental ability is at least partially vindicated. Best of luck to everybody. There's some good stuff here.
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#388610 - 07/13/06 06:51 PM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Herbie Gaines
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 2809
Loc: Chicago,IL, USA
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I have to say, after going back and reading the 50 lyrics, they really are very good as a whole. I think maybe I WAS being a little bratty cause mine didn't make it. Sometimes you need a paradigm shift. I am big enough to admit it. You all did all a great job, the 2nd round actually is tough to pick 5, there's many, many more good ones than that.
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#388611 - 07/14/06 07:43 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Linda Anthony
Top 100 Poster
Registered: 10/25/03
Posts: 1589
Loc: Maine
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Here's hoping the votes in round 2 are happening! My votes this time around were a little delayed since we had a decent deadline of the 16th and time was certainly needed to go through the rest of the songs that I was not familiar with.
I liked the experience of voting in round 2 better than round 1 because we had more of a range that could be voted on in a more sincere(if you will) manner...a "true" vote and not one that felt forced because we were limited to one page of songs. But It appears this voting process has been tried and true and there had to be a process that is unbiased and not open to favors.
Looking forward to seeing the results! Good Day, Linda A.
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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=429263
you think you can, or you think you can't; you are right!"
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#388612 - 07/14/06 09:08 AM
Re: Here's the Lyrics That Made It To Round 2
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Brian Austin Whitney
Bard of the Boards
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 16289
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
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Just an FYI:
We've tripled the initial votes to app. 36. My goal was to get over 50.. so there's still a chance to do so. With 50 votes, plus our mentor/industry judges, we should be able to choose the nominees. After a very slow start, the lyric that had the most votes in the first round now also has the most votes in the 2nd round. (Only 1 person in the first 12 voted for it.. but that has since turned around). With 36 votes in, there's only 4 lyrics without any votes. In fact, even last place (i.e. zero votes) has a shot to make it in the top 20 still with just a few voters choosing it. There's about a dozen lyrics with a lot of votes and then all the rest have a smaller number of votes. We likely won't know who makes it until the last vote is counted and then we go into tie breaking mode. (There's 10 lyrics tied for 17th right now..)
Brian
_________________________
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@aol.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney "Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney
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