i just noticed that alot of musicians HATE karaoke and was just wanting to take a poll.
have fun
jt

p.s. personally i love karaoke. and if nothing else it keeps your game up to par.

Bad. Really Bad.

Kareokee is a cheap way of replacing real musicians who can actually sing, play, and perform. Kareokee is like bad reality TV - replacing real talent with cheap laughs. It's Jerry Springer as opposed to A&E. It's the downfall of civilization as we know it.

BB

Jeez..BB...how do you really feel about it ?
(chuckling)

I don't think it's so bad...

I don't honestly see it putting good musicians out of work..it might be putting some bad musicians out of work...
That's not a bad thing..

Bob

I am personally not interested in karaoke, but I have nothing against it. If you like it--have fun!

I was in New Orleans on business a few years back. It was early in the week, maybe a Monday or Tuesday, and Bourbon Street was dead. I walked along looking into bar after bar, seeing tired-looking jazz bands going thru the motions in front of a few disinterested drunks. As I walked, I heard a commotion coming from one club. I walked in and it was a jam-packed, loud karaoke club, with three very drunk young women on stage committing murder to a Supreme's song while scores of men in the audience screamed for the "singers" to remove their shirts. They didn't. I left. But that was the only joint in the Quarter that had anything going at all that night. Go figure.

If the people at the place don't mind, and people want to get up and sing their beer off, and don't mind, and if the bar onwer is making his buck and doesn;t mind, then why should I mind? I don't have to go where they are. It would be better to have bands in clubs, for sure, (to get real players in every place), but the owners don't want to pay them like they used to, (or rather "to have bands",,,,,while not liking paying them!) So, it's a part of the bar scene these days. Everything changes. Maybe it will wear itself out and more bands will be allowed to play again. ????

If your arm hurts when you move it a certain way, don't move it that way.

John Daubert

Remember the first time you got to hold a microphone and perform? It was cool. How about those soap on the rope microphones for the shower singers?

When I was a teen, I used to sing while I vacuumed the carpet and I would hold onto the cord like I had seen singers do on TV.

They didn't have Karaoke when I was young. I would have loved it.

Singing in a mic kind of lost its glory for me sometime after the 300th time, but I still remember how cool it was in the beginning. So, I think Karaoke is fun and doesn't hurt anyone except maybe the sober people in the audience, LOL.

I rarely go out, but I wouldn't mind going to a Karaoke place.

JeanB

I really don't think the cost of bands has that much to do with it. I think most young people simply prefer DJs, and the clubs give them what they want. My teenage daughter truly prefers a DJ to a live band (I forgive her because I love her). She is almost 17 and I'll bet she has heard fewer than 5 or 6 bands in her whole life. And she thought most of them were lousy.

How do I really feel about Kareokee? Bad. Really bad. But then again, I feel the same way about the public school system, the justice system, and Justin Timberlake's buzzcut. It's just the way the world is turning.

BB

Karaoke doesn't replace music. It actually lets people who don't get to have the enjoyment of participating with the creation of music have a chance to perform as well. I think that's actually a very good thing.

Music and the performance of it is not inherantly commercial. It's art. Just as I think it's great for people to be able to paint, sculpt, write and engage in other art forms, I think it is great any time something allows more people to participate in singing and performing in some way. I wish we had a society where people were encourage to do a lot more of it.. to have some fun without staring at a TV, playing a plastic disc or killing computer aliens. Just as health clubs and softball leagues and flag football don't put pro athletes out of business, Karaoke doesn't put pro musicians out of business. In some cases it makes those participating in the former appreciate the later all the more.

Brian

I've only ONCE been inside a Karaioke Bar...at the Invite of a Chum, who was a "Regular"...& he'd invited me to Sing a Few there. And I hadn't been Onstage in 40 Years..& that was for a School Play..NOT a Singin' Gig.

Anyways, while Re-Discoverin' the Thrill of bein' Up There with a Microphone after 3 beers, I also was Treated to a LOT of pretty TALENTED Day-to-Day Real Folks.
(In the Middle of the Ohio Farm Belt.)

Karaioke takes "Audience Participation" to New Heights. Dunno how much the Studio Musicians got Paid for the Karioke Discs, but I'm sure SOME Musicians (& Writers) made a few Bucks from the Evening.

I'm also sure the Bar's Owners weighed the cost of a Decent Band vs the Karaioke Machinery & decided what was best for the Bar's Survival... (Here in Tampa, there's "Kariaoke NIGHT"...but don't recall one that's EVERY Night..) Think a
GOOD Band'll STILL pull a Better Crowd than Karaioke...but I haven't been Closely Followin' the Bar Scene for quite a while!

Anyhew, Kariaoke's come in Handy as I slowly make the Transition to Human Juke Box..heh-heh...& Hope someday Soon to be Worthy of a few of ya Live Musicians soon's I got alla My Lyrics well-Memorized 'n' Rehearsed.

Party On, Amigos!
Big Guy-Hug,
Stan
www.TampaStan.com

I'm a member of a veterans' organization that will sometimes have karaoke nights in their tiny canteen. (A band would be too big and loud for this venue, plus, the people providing the karaoke do it for free as a means of sharing something nice with the membership there.)

It's a ball and gives a lot of "non-performers" a chance to experience the thrill of a receptive audience that professional performers get to have. Even when the singers suck, most people have a good time anyway because the singer is--you know, that whole "supportive community" vibe...

I treat it as a "practice night" that gives me a chance to sing songs that my band doesn't usually play (or songs that wouldn't carry well in a solo act).

So bring it ON...but please also patronize clubs that hire bands.

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www.mp3.com/crisisrocks
www.dianatyler.com

Iam a songwriter and entertainer,and I think Karaoke gives the entertainment business a mixture.They use Karaoke all over to find recording artist's.I myself have a trackshow which is different than Karaoke.Karaoke is for fun and you can mess up and nobody cares.When you play tracks and play guitar and sing to them ,you have to be on.Its not like a band that, if they make mistakes they can keep going and cover it up.like any talent you have to practice to be good.Karaoke isnt really as easy as you think.My experience in being in many different bands and having your own band with players that just want to party, cant give their 100%.One thing about Karaoke or backing tracks their proffesionally done and it depends on the singer to screw it up.Remember its a band that makes the tracks.The reason bars want more Karaoke is because alot of bands dont perform to what their getting paid because they get trashed.I know people who make alot more money with KARAOKE than bands.So you cant say they play cheaper.I have a friend that dont play less than 300.00 a night one man thats good.I dont even want to tell you what he makes for weddings.I think Karaoke is here to stay like rockn roll.Record company's arn't looking for bands,they want singers.Nashville has many fantastic musicians.Thats why they use Karaoke to find artist's.Look at any kind of music,the bands are just the backup no difference than Karaoke or Backing Tracks.I myself like what works.If a band wants to play together without conflict and be a family thats the best.If they want to make a singer sound bad its time to go with tracks that dont argue back.Another thing you dont have to worry about finding players that get up and leave.My biggest opinion is I love entertaining and anything band ,karaoke,etc.anything with music Iam game.

The title of this thread is "karaoke good or bad". I am always a bit bemused by people's keeness to judge things as "Good" or "Bad". Shakespeare's Hamlet said it best: "Nothing is good or bad, 'tis only thinking makes it so".

Perhaps the question would have been better put, "Karaoke - do you like it or not?"

Just a thought

I like karaoke alright. It gives a large part of the population a way to express themselves musically and deserves a place in our society. Personally, I favor live music with talented musicians and good songwriting. A talented singer/songwriter with musical talent will win my attention.

I only have two problems with Karaoke.

One, I have personally lost jobs to it. Not lately, but when Karaoke first got popular, several venues substituted it for live music. Even in Las Vegas, I remember getting booked with an artist at the Four Queens for four nights a week, I asked why it wasn't the usual five nights and the manager said they had put in Karaoke one night.

My second problem with it is one I experienced just today. I was doing pre-production work with a young singer. She is very experienced as an actress and has played in major Hollywood films. Now she is branching out into music and I am helping produce the project. She was so used to singing "Karaoke style", that she had difficulty leading me when I was accompanying her.

She is not the only one. I work often with an artist who is on several European charts, having been #1 in many areas. This artist has sung to tracks so long, they have difficulty with a real band. If the intro is a little different, they don't know when to start singing. If they make a mistake somewhere in the song, they get even more flustered when the band covers for them...they're used to Karaoke that actually leads the singer. These are not isolated examples. Years of hosting writer's nights and jams have brought several singers who have difficulty singing with a live band.

I think it's fine entertainment for the amateur singer. It's great employment for up and coming singers to dj a Karaoke night. It's a terrific way for a singer to learn how to play to an audience without having to learn an instrument.

I don't particularly like or dislike it. At it's best, its entertainment for the amateuer, at its worst, it's like training wheels: it makes it easy, but it's hard to quit using.



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Mike Dunbar Music

Mike,

But what do you do about the reality that there's simply not enough live musicians who can afford to do gigs for next to nothing so that a singer can actually afford to hire them? Not to mention trying to keep them together and showing up for gigs and rehearsals on time.. and not quitting the band every other week or fighting over the female vocalist. I used to beg for bassists and drummers to play in our band and it was, at best, a revolving door with one unprofessional jerk after another. We finally started doing all the bass parts on the keyboards and often had to use sequenced drums because we simply couldn't find a qualified and reliable drummer to do the gigs for what we could pay.. or for nothing like the rest of us if needed. Lead and Rhythm guitar players were readily available.. but the bass and drum chase was always a nightmare. And horns? Yeah right.. find a reasonably qualified horn section that will do a free gig everyweek..

I think Karaoke is simply another type of entertainment that Live Bands are competiting with.. DJ's... Wet T-Shirt contests.. Movies.. Video Games.. The Internet... Bowling.. it's all stuff for people to spend their money on or spend time doing.. Karaoke isn't any more inherantly evil than the others. Do you really think, as a whole, there are many live bands that will attract the same crowd that want to come and sing badly to Karaoke? DJ's are much more of an issue than Karaoke in my opinion... both deal with passive music listening... Karaoke is as different as bowling to a live band.

Brian

i kinda like karyoke - gives me a chance to sing songs that just don't sound the same acoustic. and i think it's a fun change from playing gigs and going to open mikes. i can dance around and the music doesn't stop - amazing really plus when else would i be caught dead singing britney spears? oooo one more side note. i went to drag queen karyoke the other night and it was the best group of karyoke-ers ever! ciao, flo

Oh man, do I ever empathise with THAT!!

I'll just add that here in Seattle a local band took up Karaoke and performs from a song list. Anyone can then get up and sing from that list. Karaoke with a live band.

Just one band that decided to embrace rather than hate.

I personally have seen many of the places I've performed go Karaoke but I try not worry about it, I just go find new venues to play.

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Chris Eric
chriseric@chriseric.com
www.chriseric.com

There's a band in our area that does that, too...it's made them some good money!

Personally, I think Karaoke is a lot of fun, and can be quite amusing (and rewarding, if you do the contest thing)...so long as it's remembered that Karaoke is NOT a "professional" form of entertainment, in the true sense of the word. When it's taken in the spirit in which it was intended, Karaoke is a good thing!


Jaden

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http://www.geocities.com/kitty_caliente :PLEASE VISIT MY WEBPAGE!

ATTENTION TO THOSE IN THE GREATER KANSAS CITY AREA: Please contact me if you are interested in a local chapter. Thanks!!

I just think Kareokee is another way of "dumbing down" the entertainment industry. It's like reality TV - cheap to produce using people with no talent as entertainment for people with no taste in "quality". I realize quality is a subjective term but let's get real here. Any audience fed a steady diet of "The Bachelor" will start to think that is quality programing if they have never seen an A&E Biography or Citizen Kane.

You need the good stuff to keep the bad stuff in perspective.

I realise there are a lot of bad bands out there, too... but at least the good bands can sing original material. Can't do that with Kareokee. Imagine if there was a way that any idiot who thought he was smart could give heart surgery a shot. Would you want him or her operating on you? No, because Doctors are professionals with years of specialized training. Well, so too are professional entertainers.

I wasn't joking completely when I said that Kareokee is the end of the civilized world as we know it. It's just another step back down the ladder of evolution.

BB

Not necessarily so BB,
I have seen Karaoke venues that allow you to bring in your own backing track. (if you saw the movie Duets... that's what Huey Lewis does in one of the bars) Could be any song.......even your own.
I actually enjoy karaoke now and then. (well only a couple times, but would have done it a little more.......never a lot) Like Diana said, it gives me a chance to sing songs I don't nornally perform. (In my case songs I can't play) Usually there is a full mix of singers. some dreadfully bad, and some bordering on pretty darn good.
Mike, you bring up a point that never occured to me. hmmmmmm. Actually one of the things that would frustrate me with singing very much karaoke, would be that idea of always being locked into that arrangement. the same reason I wouldn't want to perform very often with backing tracks.
And the bars that have the karaoke nights I've been to, use that on otherwise slow nights, when the places might be empty if it weren't for the singers and their friends.


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Harriet
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/harrietamesmusic.htm

[This message has been edited by Harriet Ames (edited 05-27-2003).]

Not entirely true, check this thread.
http://www.justplainfolks.org/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000223.html

Of course now we have amateur entertainers performing amateur songs, this could be even a greater leap backwards .

Walt

JT,
Musicians compose and create the sounds that Karaoke uses. Those musicians don't hate the art form [of Karaoke] for it's outstanding commercial success. Therefore, I suppose it depends on what kind of musicians we're talking about and what "level" they're at!

Personally, I like music & success. If I can find a way to have both of them in one package, what's not to like?

By the way, personally I've never had the opportunity to sing along with Karaoke, but I think the concept is cool and probably brings a lot of fun and joy to many of it's participants, especially all the great "crooners" around. How else would they do it?

Best regards,
Michael


[This message has been edited by Michael Borges (edited 05-27-2003).]

I think folks need to learn a few things about who gets paid what in the music biz and what musicians are competing with.

1. Karaoke recordings make money for musicians. Those that play get paid. Also, the writers of the songs get paid.

2. Clubs that play Karaoke music pay royalties to the PRO's meaning even MORE money goes to writers as a hole. The fact is that ASCAP and BMI are far more likely to collect from a club playing Karaoke Music than they are a club with an acoustic guitarist/singer-songwriter playing.

3. Karaoke is an active activity. It has far more in common with Bowling & miniature golf than it does with anything involving a live band. If people are attracted to Karaoke.. it's because they, or their friends, are participating.. not listening passively. Movies are more competition to a live band than Karaoke is. A DJ is also a replacement for a band.. but then they have a right to earn a living too right? Just as people who run Karaoke nights. In fact, I know a lot of singers who help supplement their living with doing Karaoke nights. Karaoke might be a competitor for an Open mic. If I were near a club doing Karaoke that DIDN'T have an open mic.. I would find which nights were open and run the open mics on those nights to keep take advantage of the situation.

I also have to say again.. anything that gets people actively involved in performing and doing something active should be encoraged. I think everyone has the right of that great feeling you get when you perform for folks.. and most of the time audiences in Karaoke clubs are pretty supportive... to suggest that musicians who want to do a gig in place of Karaoke in a club have some sort of birthright to do so is absurd. If anything, I think 30 people getting to perform as a group have more rights to do so than the 1 to 5 people in a band who thinks they are losing out.

There are SO many places to perform live in every city in the US that when I hear that artists complain there is no place to perform, I know they aren't looking very hard. Mike Dunbar and Terri Lynn put on a very well done Chart Band and have moved it quite often around Nashville because clubs close and change formats etc.. sometimes the gigs pay nearly or literally nothing.. but I haven't really heard them complaining.. they just go out and find a new place to jam... if your goal is to play live and you don't suck heinously.. there are places to play.. everywhere..

shows are schools.. libraries.. coffee shops.. shopping centers.. any type of retail store... restraunts of any type.. the clubhouse at a local golf course.. book stores.. playgrounds.. picnic areas... parks.. subways.. bus stops.. street corners.. house parties... it never ends.. there's never a limit for a talented performer who wants to perform.. and if you are any good and anyone actually likes you.. the money will follow once enough people know you exist and like you..

Being mad at Karaoke is like being mad at anything else that really isn't really taking away your opportunities, but makes for an easy scapegoat.

Even for a club that used to book live acts that switches to Karaoke.. if the club thought they could make more money from you, they wouldn't switch.. so you either need to prove they'll make more.. OR... learn how to bring in a bigger crowd.

Brian

Brian,

I know about that revolving door of musicians who act like unprofessional jerks. The problem often (though not necessarily in your case) is that they ARE unprofessional to begin with...amateurs. Professionals are paid to rehearse and perform.

I've also seen that revolving door of artists who act like unprofessional jerks to the musicians; rehearsing them for months with no pay, then after two gigs somewhere for the door they go off to sing all season on a cruise ship with the house band.

I'd recommend to anyone who wants to have a band of professional, loyal, talented musicians, to act accordingly:

Pay them (if you can't, you're not ready for them, so develop at the Karaoke and learn all you can about the music business).

Treat them well. Don't fire them right before Christmas. Introduce them when you play the Opry.

And, learn your craft. Learn to sing on time, and in tune. Write songs that people like. Develop a repertoire that sells.

In the meantime, if you can't afford a band, or simply don't want to have a band play with you, Karaoke is fine.

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Mike Dunbar Music

P.S.

Brian,I agree with you that Karaoke competes with live music no more than bowling, tv, or the neighborhood brothel. I don't feel like I lose work to Karaoke now, but when it first started, it was the live music venues that replaced bands with Karaoke. I did, then, lose regular accounts.

[This message has been edited by Mike Dunbar (edited 05-27-2003).]

I have never been in a karaoke
but i want to say that for a family fun can be sharing, and doesn't mean it has to sound briliant, but nothing wrong of people enjoying singing, even if they're the worst in the world. I honestly sometimes get mp3 from internet of songs i enjoy, just for the fact to be able to do it, me alone, in my hause (i'm even more terrible like that, i like japaneses karaokes, i mean singing in japanese ) it's funny and dunno lol
but YOU'RE NOT MAKING REAL MUSIC, when making a karaoke, just having fun
never have been on a karaoke pub, but guess wouldn't like to see tons of people trying to show off cos of covering other's artists, i like songwritting, and i like people to create their own music, their own vision and if it'snot your own vision you cannot show that part of yourself you show when you share your music with the world

Pris

http://mp3.com/priscilla_hernandez
http://www.yidneth.com

Mike,

There's another factor, and that is that in a lot of towns there really aren't any pro musicians to hire. You live in the live player capital of the world (along with Austin and cities like Chicago, LA, NYC and Boston...), but the "pickins is much slimmer" in most areas of the country.

I don't think it is fair to say that an artist not earning enough to pay a band full of pro session players isn't a professional. I know a lot of great pro level artists who end up paying their band and making zero themselves just because gigs simple aren't paying enough. The average $'s that gigs are paying today haven't really gone up in 20 years (or more in most areas of the country.) In our member survey of those playing live gigs, 70% made less than 100 bucks per gig these days. I am not sure it's fair to say that someone isn't a pro because they can't pay 4 band members 50 bucks each off a 100 dollar gig payout.

Brian

Brian,

I didn't mean to say people who can't afford to hire back up musicians aren't professional. That would include me! That's why I played all the parts on my cd.

What I meant was, musicians who rehearse and play for free are either beginners who are looking for experience or are playing at the amateur level or they are band members or somehow partners in the band...by definition.

And I agree that most towns don't have a lot of good professional musicians. There are few of us.

That's why I included some ideas how to get and keep good, loyal, professional musicians. They are very hard to find.
And, you think that's hard? Try to find a good manager...or soundman!!!!!

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Mike Dunbar Music

[This message has been edited by Mike Dunbar (edited 05-28-2003).]

Ha ha ha!!!! I enjoyed reading this thread!

IMO - Karaoke is harmless... I absolutely refuse to grab the Karaoke mic with all my sober heart (key word in this sentence is SOBER).,., However, there have been occasional incidents when I've had many drinks in my belly and the friends I am with push my ass up there.. I'll belt out something and feel rediculous about it when I stumble back to the bar knowing that singing is what I do for a living and Karaoke is REALLY for those wanting to have fun and sing Paradise By The Dashboard Light until they are hoarse and completely out of breath

Anyway - MUSIC IS MEANT TO BE FUN no matter how good or bad.. Enjoy it - enjoy life.. Don't take it so serious....

Cheers!

russ
www.russonline.com

I agree Russ. If music weren't so much fun, I wouldn't put myself through so much misery to play it.

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Mike Dunbar Music

Russ,

You're exactly right. Fun first. Commerce has corrupted people to the point that some think it's wrong for amateurs to have as much funs as the Pro's.

And even among those who consider themselves pro's, it's clear they aren't making a lot more than the amateurs these days anyway. Here's some stats to back that idea up. When we polled our members last year (and nearly 2000 replied) here's what they said they made on their gigs on average:

On average, how much do you make on each gig you play?
22.8% 51-100
21.5% 0 (All our gigs are free)
13% 101-150
8.6% 26-50
7.8% 1-25
7.3% 151-200
6.9% 301-500
6.8% 201-300
1.9% 501-750
1.4% 751-1000
0.9% 1001-1500
0.5% 2001-3000
0.3% 1501-2000
0.1% 3001-5000
0.1% 5001 or more

This was from those who say they pursue music professionally on either a part time or full time basis and NOT simply as a hobby.

I've seen so many great pro artists do great shows and make 30 bucks in tips and sell a handful of CD's that it can be sort of depressing.

One project I have long contemplated is a circuit of venues that will book and pay artists consistantly as they tour across the country. If there were 1 or more venues in the top 200 cities where qualified artists could get booked for a couple hundred bucks plus CD sales as a solo artist or more as a full band (assuming corresponding turn outs of course), I think that by working together, both the venues and artists could create a mutually profitable system. (I am not doing any justice to the idea here.. it's a little more complicated). We've tried to get info from members on the best venues in each community to start this project, but haven't had a great deal of luck so far on the Venues message board. But I am hoping we can keep moving forward on the idea. Venues could pool their resources to run more advertising, each artist on the tour could promote both the venues and the other artists in rotation at the time so that all the artists start to share all the others fan bases when they come through town. It would take a lot of work and cooperation, but it seems that once it was up and running, it could be self sustaining and could spread to more cities and more venues as it did in a methodical sort of way. Like a big coop. And since all the artists and venues would rarely be "head to head" and the venues would mostly be in different cities or geographic areas (like North Chicago, South Chicago etc..) they could all co-exist and support each other for mutual gain.

Food for thought,

Brian

Karaoke is not something I do often, but it's really fun! It gives me the chance to sing oddball songs that I'd never perform in a normal performance setting, like "Out Here On My Own" from Fame, or "Hopelessly Devoted to You."

In Fort Lee, NJ, there's a huge Asian population, and they have "karaoke boxes" - living rooms that you can rent out with a your friends, and bring in a cooler of booze, and spend the night karaoking amongst yourselves. There's a book with hundreds of songs, you punch in the code with a remote control, then grab the mike when your songs comes on. BIG FUN!

It's also great to get non-singers to loosen up, and surprise you AND themselves.

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Marian Mastrorilli
mastrose@aol.com
http://www.projectmercury.net

That is exactly what I have been trying to say.

Just thought I'd bring this up. Karaoke can be dangerous:

http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2003/jun/24/top_stories/20030624top6.html

This was from WorldNetDaily.com

Mike

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Mike Dunbar Music

I guess I disagree strongly, Brian. The bars are now paying karaoke guys $100 a night or whatever because they're too cheap to pay a band a decent wage. Bands make now what they made 20 years ago. Whereas 20-30 years ago one could make a living, a meager living at that, playing out, now it's impossible unless you have a Top 40 band playing the same Top 40 songs as everyone else, with high-dollar weddings or corporate gigs.

Karaoke most definitely puts musicians out of business. Sure, musicians create the backing CDs but there's the answer right there. Musicians don't dupe the repeat performance.

I actually think it's sad when kids would rather listen to karaoke or DJ's instead of a live band. Many have no idea where real music comes from. Karaoke does have some good points but it darn sure displaces musicians IMHO.

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My sig: Good luck, songwriter! (OPINIONS: Producer regarding The Beatles... "Guitar music is out of style; I'll pass." George Jones: "Yeah, I've recorded a tune called 'He Stopped Loving Her Today' but it's too sad; it won't go anywhere.) And you want MY opinion?

[This message has been edited by DukeWill (edited 06-25-2003).]