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Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here

Posted By: Roy Cooper

Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 03/14/20 08:17 AM

In reply to Johns shoutout...
Surprising that no one started a coronavirus thread yet. (John's shoutout)

I think I have it John. The NEW big 'C'. Why do these things mostly have the letter 'C' at the front.

I went to the dentist 2 weeks ago and he put me on antibiotics for a week, prior to having a root canal job.

Then I went back on Wednesday last.

He did the root canal job, and cut off the top of a bad tooth and removed another. All it one session.

When the injections stopped working, the pain was worse than before I had the tooth done. So paracetamol is helping.

Anyway, 2 days after the dentist, I got a fever and became weak as hell. Then the coughing.

I decided to self isolate, and luckily my friends brought my essentials around, (leaving them on the doorstep).

Yesterday my temp was through the roof, and I went to bed and sweated like I was in a sauna.

I feel a lot better today, so hopefully if I had it, it was a mild version.

I have had colds and flu before, so know that this was different.

I think my sense of humor has kept me going.

God Bless to all

Roy

I know that it may not be needed, but I do think everyone should have a pre-arranged contact who will bring essentials should the need arise.

NOTE TO ALL: My Apologies To Roy for this Edit. I think it is important for people to be able to express their thoughts and feelings on this Pandemic somewhere and this seems to be where it has settled. Please do not post about it anywhere else. That way for those wishing to avoid the topic (not easy to do anywhere) they can simply NOT read this single post. Meanwhile all those wanting to engage have a place to do so.

There's a lot of misinformation on the Internet, not just from conspiracy theorists. It comes from "legitimate" sources as well. The WHO incorrectly stated that Human to Human transfer was not possible. The CDC incorrectly stated that Wearing a Mask would not help. (Now it is mandated, which is another issue entirely). Plenty of Governors, Senators, Representatives, Health Experts, President and Staff and others have also been wrong time and again. Lots of theories. Lots of opinions. Lots of Censorship. All I ask is no personal attacks. Argue your point, don't attack the individual. Thanks and stay safe. And sorry again to Roy for editing his post.

Brian
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/14/20 12:12 PM

Roy, sorry to hear about the ordeal you suffered. Sounds nasty. So far, here in Newfoundland there has been no reported cases but that will not last. So many people, especially in winter, will take vacations down south or in some warm country, so surely someone is going to bring it back with them. People are still going, even though they've been warned not to go by government and friends. But you know, it can't happen to me attitude prevails, and they go, but they are told they must go into isolation for 14 days after they return. Cruise ships with over 500 people are banned from landing here until after June. They will likely be banned from many ports, so what kind of vacation is that, just seeing ocean water for two weeks with land off in a distance, then having to go into quarantine for two more weeks. I heard on an open line type radio show last night where this couple had just returned from vacation and had to go into quarantine because her husband had the symptoms of the virus, and she was thinking she might have to cancel their family vacation planned for spring break. People have too much money and too much time on their hands. They are on vacation much of the year, So much for preventing carbon pollution of the air to prevent global climate change. They say almost any hour there are a million people in the air going somewhere. Off seeing the world before they destroy it.
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/14/20 05:35 PM

Here in Fiji, we are lucky that we are in an isolated place. No coronavirus.

Having said that, Fiji relies on tourism, and the cancellation rate has been 80% with hotel occupancy down to 20%. Cruise ships are being cancelled.

I just signed a lease for my restaurant/bar/jazz club. Great huh ? A new club with no guests. LOL

That's Ok. As a musician, I have played to empty rooms before, ( once with a little old lady and her dog ) I expect to take a hit for the next 4-6 months. It will pass, and hopefully we will resume normal programming in the near future. smile

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/14/20 10:31 PM

Hi, Roy. I'm glad you're feeling better. It sounds like you're one of the tens of millions who catch a seasonal ailment every year.

As for the world being destroyed by CLIMATE CHANGE, Spring is definitely in the air here in SE Az. We've had some rain, now it's time to get out and mow. We had a cold winter, but now birds are singin', buds are sprouting and it's getting to where we can sit out at night on the deck I built, drink coffee and watch the moon rise from the playa.

Life is good and one perc to come from Wuhan Flu hysteria? Hollywood is shutting down production on its endless crap sequels and reboots.

Praise be to GRETA!!! wink
Posted By: Roy Cooper

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/15/20 08:38 AM

Thanks for the comments folks,

I have slipped backwards a bit now, and am still in self isolation. So won't be answering individual comments.

A couple of thoughts that have passed through my mind as I have laid in my bed over the last week.

Even if this turns out NOT to be the pandemic as predicted by many, it is a wake up call to the world, because at some time a virus will come that will be frighteningly dangerous,
and then an orchestrated world plan will be needed.

Also in the past I have seen people with flu on buses or trains or even in the casualty of hospitals or doctors surgery's coughing the germs everywhere without even a tissue.

I used to hate taking my Helen (God Bless Her) for even an x-ray because she was more likely to end up with something else by the time it was done.

That seems to have changed now, peoples mindsets have changed, and not a moment too soon.

I have to say that I still have my sense of humor, so when I saw this clip, I did smile, although its more ironic than funny, but It is so true.

Its from a comedy spoof sitcom in the UK in the 1980s called 'Yes Prime Minister.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNjFIwRYEIo

God Bless to All

Roy
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/15/20 03:32 PM

Short video with everything you need to know about the coronavirus pandemic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hks6Nq7g6P4 Rated R

Best, John smile
Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/15/20 04:40 PM

Roy, I hope you feel better soon. Thank you for posting about your experience.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/15/20 05:38 PM

Here's what I know. An infinitesimally small percentage of people will contract it. Among those, a very small percent will die, mostly those who already have health problems. Same as other seasonal ailments.

Common sense preventives can curb it, same as other respiratory illnesses.

It originated in China.

The rest is media induced hysteria.
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/16/20 11:24 AM

Sometimes you have to use a sledge hammer where a tack hammer would do because people have no fear of tack hammers but they do respect sledge hammers.
Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/16/20 07:46 PM

I'm more interested in how Roy is doing than anything else.
Posted By: Mark Kaufman

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/17/20 03:53 PM

I hope you're doing well, Roy!

This is the worst time in our shared history of the world to say stupid things about this particular pandemic. Not with everyone's lives at stake. It isn't like the seasonal flu at all. Common sense in the face of a new killer in town is not to feel knowledgeable and smug in your decision to disbelieve it through force of opinion. Here is just one of many pieces of better information, this one sent out from Shelby Health Department in Ohio, one of hundreds you can find as all municipalities scramble to change this kind of thinking:

WHAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, PLEASE READ:

Feeling confused as to why Coronavirus is a bigger deal than Seasonal flu? Here it is in a nutshell. I hope this helps. Feel free to share this to others who don’t understand...

It has to do with RNA sequencing.... I.e. genetics.

Seasonal flu is an “all human virus”. The DNA/RNA chains that make up the virus are recognized by the human immune system. This means that your body has some immunity to it before it comes around each year... you get immunity two ways...through exposure to a virus, or by getting a flu shot.

Novel viruses, come from animals.... the WHO tracks novel viruses in animals, (sometimes for years watching for mutations). Usually these viruses only transfer from animal to animal (pigs in the case of H1N1) (birds in the case of the Spanish flu). But once, one of these animal viruses mutates, and starts to transfer from animals to humans... then it’s a problem, Why? Because we have no natural or acquired immunity.. the RNA sequencing of the genes inside the virus isn’t human, and the human immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we can’t fight it off.

Now.... sometimes, the mutation only allows transfer from animal to human, for years it’s only transmission is from an infected animal to a human before it finally mutates so that it can now transfer human to human... once that happens..we have a new contagion phase. And depending on the fashion of this new mutation, thats what decides how contagious, or how deadly it’s gonna be..

H1N1 was deadly....but it did not mutate in a way that was as deadly as the Spanish flu. It’s RNA was slower to mutate and it attacked its host differently, too.

Fast forward.

Now, here comes this Coronavirus... it existed in animals only, for nobody knows how long...but one day, at an animal market, in Wuhan China, in December 2019, it mutated and made the jump from animal to people. At first, only animals could give it to a person... But here is the scary part.... in just TWO WEEKS it mutated again and gained the ability to jump from human to human. Scientists call this quick ability, “slippery”

This Coronavirus, not being in any form a “human” virus (whereas we would all have some natural or acquired immunity). Took off like a rocket. And this was because, Humans have no known immunity...doctors have no known medicines for it.

And it just so happens that this particular mutated animal virus, changed itself in such a way the way that it causes great damage to human lungs..

That’s why Coronavirus is different from seasonal flu, or H1N1 or any other type of influenza.... this one is slippery. And it’s a lung eater...And, it’s already mutated AGAIN, so that we now have two strains to deal with, strain s, and strain L....which makes it twice as hard to develop a vaccine.

We really have no tools in our shed, with this. History has shown that fast and immediate closings of public places has helped in the past pandemics. Philadelphia and Baltimore were reluctant to close events in 1918 and they were the hardest hit in the US during the Spanish Flu.

Factoid: Henry VIII stayed in his room and allowed no one near him, till the Black Plague passed...(honestly...I understand him so much better now). Just like us, he had no tools in his shed, except social isolation...

And let me end by saying....right now it’s hitting older folks harder... but this genome is so slippery...if it mutates again (and it will). Who is to say, what it will do next.

Be smart folks...

#flattenthecurve. Stay home folks.
Posted By: DonnaMarilyn

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/17/20 04:26 PM

Interesting information, Mark. Thanks for sharing that.

Roy, I too hope you're doing OK.

Donna
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/17/20 04:43 PM

Thanks Mark! Finally someone answered my ongoing question. Where did you find this info Mark?

Best, John smile
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/17/20 04:44 PM

Hi Donna! Hope things are better in the Lowlands Donna.

Hope you're feeling better Roy. Take care.

John smile
Posted By: DonnaMarilyn

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/17/20 04:49 PM

Hi John. smile Stay safe & well. We're in total lockdown over here.
Posted By: JaneK

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/17/20 05:50 PM

Get better soon Roy.

My prayers are for you making a full and speedy recovery.

No lockdown yet where I am located but hear this virus could hang around a while.
Posted By: Brian Austin Whitney

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/18/20 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
I hope you're doing well, Roy!

This is the worst time in our shared history of the world to say stupid things about this particular pandemic. Not with everyone's lives at stake. It isn't like the seasonal flu at all. Common sense in the face of a new killer in town is not to feel knowledgeable and smug in your decision to disbelieve it through force of opinion. Here is just one of many pieces of better information, this one sent out from Shelby Health Department in Ohio, one of hundreds you can find as all municipalities scramble to change this kind of thinking:

WHAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, PLEASE READ:

Feeling confused as to why Coronavirus is a bigger deal than Seasonal flu? Here it is in a nutshell. I hope this helps. Feel free to share this to others who don’t understand...

It has to do with RNA sequencing.... I.e. genetics.

Seasonal flu is an “all human virus”. The DNA/RNA chains that make up the virus are recognized by the human immune system. This means that your body has some immunity to it before it comes around each year... you get immunity two ways...through exposure to a virus, or by getting a flu shot.

Novel viruses, come from animals.... the WHO tracks novel viruses in animals, (sometimes for years watching for mutations). Usually these viruses only transfer from animal to animal (pigs in the case of H1N1) (birds in the case of the Spanish flu). But once, one of these animal viruses mutates, and starts to transfer from animals to humans... then it’s a problem, Why? Because we have no natural or acquired immunity.. the RNA sequencing of the genes inside the virus isn’t human, and the human immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we can’t fight it off.

Now.... sometimes, the mutation only allows transfer from animal to human, for years it’s only transmission is from an infected animal to a human before it finally mutates so that it can now transfer human to human... once that happens..we have a new contagion phase. And depending on the fashion of this new mutation, thats what decides how contagious, or how deadly it’s gonna be..

H1N1 was deadly....but it did not mutate in a way that was as deadly as the Spanish flu. It’s RNA was slower to mutate and it attacked its host differently, too.

Fast forward.

Now, here comes this Coronavirus... it existed in animals only, for nobody knows how long...but one day, at an animal market, in Wuhan China, in December 2019, it mutated and made the jump from animal to people. At first, only animals could give it to a person... But here is the scary part.... in just TWO WEEKS it mutated again and gained the ability to jump from human to human. Scientists call this quick ability, “slippery”

This Coronavirus, not being in any form a “human” virus (whereas we would all have some natural or acquired immunity). Took off like a rocket. And this was because, Humans have no known immunity...doctors have no known medicines for it.

And it just so happens that this particular mutated animal virus, changed itself in such a way the way that it causes great damage to human lungs..

That’s why Coronavirus is different from seasonal flu, or H1N1 or any other type of influenza.... this one is slippery. And it’s a lung eater...And, it’s already mutated AGAIN, so that we now have two strains to deal with, strain s, and strain L....which makes it twice as hard to develop a vaccine.

We really have no tools in our shed, with this. History has shown that fast and immediate closings of public places has helped in the past pandemics. Philadelphia and Baltimore were reluctant to close events in 1918 and they were the hardest hit in the US during the Spanish Flu.

Factoid: Henry VIII stayed in his room and allowed no one near him, till the Black Plague passed...(honestly...I understand him so much better now). Just like us, he had no tools in hi
s shed, except social isolation...

And let me end by saying....right now it’s hitting older folks harder... but this genome is so slippery...if it mutates again (and it will). Who is to say, what it will do next.

Be smart folks...

#flattenthecurve. Stay home folks.


Interesting read.

I see the points being made, with one unsubstantiated assumption: That this was 100% positively a case animal to human from an animal market place. That leap of "guess" is problematic for me. I could make a leap of "guess" that this is a weaponized virus from a weapons grade biology lab in the same city, released intentionally during the Chinese New Year EXACTLY when Chinese return from nearly every country in the world for the holiday and then head back out to all those places with a nasty bio weapon attached to each of them. And by hitting the airports firsts it multiplied how many directions it would go once those infected planes landed.

I put nothing past the red china communists. They welded people into their homes (and worse) to shut it down in their country. They have those powers. They also know the entire west, which get's their life saving medicine mostly (90% of some key drugs for the USA) from China are doubly hosed by this. Terrifyingly genius economic warfare on the rest of the world minus their buddies to the North in Russia who closed their borders almost day one and have very little exposure in their country. That leaves two villainous countries (plus N. Korea) to rise up faster than ever before against the west who will be fighting this for years if not permanently.

They are saying this is now a yearly illness just like Flu which is worse, more dangerous and should set back the entire West decades compared to China and Russia.

We shall see.

Meanwhile, the economic damage is already done. Massive job loss among the working poor and irrational behavior and suspension of Western beliefs like free travel, free mobility, free right to association, freedom on private property to gather and so on. And it could get much much worse than that. And we've learned once Govt.s grab a power, they never let go of it (see The Patriot Act signed by BOTH parties).

Illness aside, we're screwed and life will never quite be the same in the best of scenarios. In the worst, there could be more dead from social unrest than the virus.

Brian
Posted By: Moosesong

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/18/20 06:50 AM

I hope you get feeling better Roy. One thing I learned from a fever episode months before the Covid19 outbreak is that if you are no longer in your twenties, a fever of 103.5 is a serious thing and you should seek medical health. I got scolded by our doctor for waiting till urgent care opened in the morning rather than going to the emergenys room at 2am.

Of course now, just going to the emergency room or urgent care can mean increased risk of catching the covid19 virus, so its a tougher decision. But please Roy call your doctor or medical advisor if the fever persists to see what they suggest.

This will be the year of trying to make good decisions between horrible choices.

Couch, please take it seriously. no need to be scared but plenty of reasons to be very cautious. this is real, especially for people our age. One hundred dead (up to 104 just s few minutes ago) is not a lot on the national scale, but it is doubling every week. check this post again on 3/24 and I predict it will be close to 200. check again 3/31 and it will probably be close to 400. 1000 by mid April. I hope i'm wrong, I really do.


It takes getting used to. I have literaly washed my hands more this month than in any 5 year span of my life.

and they closed Disneyland. There were signs that Disney Land might close. In the week before it closed, there were subtle changes to the rides that hinted of trouble ahead.
Little animatronic robot children in clothing from variolus countries, all singing "It's like small pox after all"

They moved the skeleton head of the pirates of the caribean, the one that says "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here". He is now over the arrival gate of the international portion of LAX.

The hippos and crocadiles on the jungle cruise were all wearing surgical masks. The river guide still was still yelling "look out" but he had a squirt bottle of purell instead of a gun. strange days indeed.
Posted By: Roy Cooper

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/18/20 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
I'm more interested in how Roy is doing than anything else.

Thanks Gavin and I am improving, then slipping then improving and it gores on...


Originally Posted by Moosesong
I hope you get feeling better Roy. One thing I learned from a fever episode months before the Covid19 outbreak is that if you are no longer in your twenties, a fever of 103.5 is a serious thing and you should seek medical health. I got scolded by our doctor for waiting till urgent care opened in the morning rather than going to the emergenys room at 2am.
Thanks Moose.. appreciated

From my experience with this in the UK, the Doctors was a waste of time and refused to even speak to me with a call back.
The doctors receptionist just insisted that I call NHS 111and said that none of the doctors would take the time to call me.

When I called111, I waited 6 hours for them to answer then after listening to 20 recorded messages was told by a recording that I should just stay at home, and call 999 if I was to become seriously ill, and in fear of my life.

Luckily I have got through it. I tried to get food delivered from asda (Walmart) and was told that it was 3 weeks for home deliveries.

When I said that I needed some food and would have to come to the store, they said that I would be arrested if I did.
So much for the stores helping out.

Luckily my wonderful neighbor brought me some food around, and my local councilor arrived with a large bag of food, and a hot meal and also brought my other pills from the chemist. There are good people out there.

Testing doesn't exist any more in the UK. Even front line doctors can get tested when getting symptoms. There isn't enough testing kits.

My thanks to every one who has wished me well and I will keep this updated. I am so tired a lot of the time.

Please for all of your friends and families sake err on the side of caution in everything you do. There is no second chances.

Can anyone tell me 'how many times can I watch the same films before loosing my mind'?...lol

Speak later

God Bless to all

Roy



Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/18/20 10:31 AM

Wow Roy! Thank goodness you made it through. Now you'll never know if you had the "C" or not. Take care...

Best, John smile
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/18/20 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Brian
I see the points being made, with one unsubstantiated assumption: That this was 100% positively a case animal to human from an animal market place. That leap of "guess" is problematic for me. I could make a leap of "guess" that this is a weaponized virus from a weapons grade biology lab in the same city, released intentionally during the Chinese New Year EXACTLY when Chinese return from nearly every country in the world for the holiday and then head back out to all those places with a nasty bio weapon attached to each of them. And by hitting the airports firsts it multiplied how many directions it would go once those infected planes landed.


So what you are saying is that there is an equal chance that this is:
a) a novel virus -- mutates so it can jump from animal to human and then mutates again so it can jump human to human; or
b) a weaponized virus from the Chinese

While you always could be correct in your guesses, it mostly sounds like a whack-a-doo conspiracy theory that Alex Jones and his ilk are normally selling.
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/18/20 12:29 PM

Folks, don't take this virus lightly. If it is man made, and it could be, it could be the fulfillment of what Revelations chapter 6 verse 8 calls for when a fourth part of the earth (population) will be killed. Also Luke chapter 21 and Matthew chapter 24 describes what will happen in the last days. Are we in the last days, all the signs are there that Jesus said to watch for. No man can name the day or hour of Jesus' return to earth but we can know the signs. We can't know the signs if we don't read the bible where those signs are written. Right now, even the churches are closed, is this a fulfillment of the word that says " in the last days there will come a famine, not a famine for food, but a famine for the word". We will have a famine for food too, the locusts in Africa are destroying crops even now. War is an ongoing thing, the climate change that is talked about, the floods, the fires, the drouths, the earthquakes, the volcanoes, the storms, etc. I know, we've had all those things up through history, but as they get closer and closer together, like the birth pains of a woman, you know the time is nigh.

Just be ready. I know some of you think I am too religious, a prophet of doom, but I am only pointing you to the bible and what it says, some don't believe the bible is the word of God, don't even believe there is a God, that I can't do much about, you are free to believe or not believe, I am required to warn those marching toward destruction or else I can be held accountable. I've come to know many of you as friends ( internet friends) and I don't want you to be lost, especially if I didn't tell you the truth.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/18/20 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Everett
If it is man made, and it could be, it could be the fulfillment of what Revelations chapter 6 verse 8 ...

Uh, the "plague" doesn't have to be man-made, does it?

Everett: I think most bible readers stick the gospels, acts and the letters from Paul. The book of revelations is too mysterious to be understood by most/all folks.

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. "
End time prophets and book of revelation experts have been around for 2,000 years and they come and go. One day they will be right, but no one has been yet.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/18/20 03:28 PM

It's not RevelationS, It's Revelation. The only "sign" given in Matt. 24 is the sign of the Son of Man. Luke 21:8 says to avoid those saying "the time is at hand".

Deut 18:20-22 says false prophets should be put to death.

All those using the Bible to predict doom have been wrong.

I'm not a Bible thumper but I know what it says.

Roy, it sounds like you had the creeping crud and nothing more.

Everett, if the world is being destroyed where you're at, post a photo.

It's early Spring as usual where I am.
Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/18/20 03:28 PM

Glad you made it through, Roy. I hope you find some new films to watch!
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/18/20 03:49 PM

My bro sends his regards and wishes you well Roy.

Best, John smile
Posted By: Roy Cooper

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/18/20 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by couchgrouch
Roy, it sounds like you had the creeping crud and nothing more


I feel much better now that you have put my mind at ease Robert.

Unfortunately, at this time, if its a cold, or flu or corona you get tarred with the same brush. And if you don't self isolate, and get it wrong, you can cause others to become ill.

So whilst to some being laid up for 7 days with a fever and cough is just a creeping crud, I did err on the side of caution, and as there are no tests available to us commoners, I will never know if it was 1 or the other.

I did think it was worse than flu which in my 70 years, I have had a few times before.

God Bless to all

Roy
Posted By: Roy Cooper

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/18/20 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Glad you made it through, Roy. I hope you find some new films to watch!


Thanks Gavin and I will keep watching lol

God Bless

Roy
Posted By: Roy Cooper

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/18/20 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
My bro sends his regards and wishes you well Roy.

Best, John smile


Thanks John, give him my regards as well.

God Bless

Roy
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/19/20 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Originally Posted by Everett
If it is man made, and it could be, it could be the fulfillment of what Revelations chapter 6 verse 8 ...

Uh, the "plague" doesn't have to be man-made, does it?

Everett: I think most bible readers stick the gospels, acts and the letters from Paul. The book of revelations is too mysterious to be understood by most/all folks.

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. "
End time prophets and book of revelation experts have been around for 2,000 years and they come and go. One day they will be right, but no one has been yet.


Most of man's troubles comes through the acts of man, no doubt urged on by the enemy, as will be in the end time, but also God's wrath will be poured out on those that oppose Him. If we were not suppose to read the book of Revelation, why does verse 3 say, blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. Sounds to me like we are suppose to read it, no doubt it is not an easy book to understand but it is there for us to read. Maybe as we see it coming about, we will understand it more clearly. God does not waste words and He is not the author of confusion, I doubt if John understood all he was given to write, nor did Daniel when he wrote what he was given to write, the book was to be sealed until the end time when we would understand it. There were many prophecies in the old testament about Jesus coming and dying for the sins of the world, but the Jews did not recognize Jesus as their Messiah when He came (many still don't), but when we read the old testament now, we can see it plainly. The first time I read the bible, I got very little out of it, because I read it mostly to be able to say I read the bible. The bible has to be studied, and the more you read it the more will be revealed to you. Seek and you shall find, knock and it will be opened unto you. The second coming of Jesus is promised in the bible, exactly when it will happen, no one knows, but the final count down couldn't start until the Jews returned to Israel, as they did in 1948, but they didn't gain Jerusalem until 1967, Jesus said that this generation shall not pass away until my return. People have been using this to try and figure out when He will return. It won't work, first, what is a generation, where do you start counting down from, 1948 or 1967. Was it the generation born then that live and average 70 years, Or is it the generation that see the final signs that He said to watch for. We don't know, but we who believe know that He is coming, and hopefully He will find us working and ready and looking for His coming.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/19/20 01:57 PM

Quote
… Sounds to me like we are suppose to read it, no doubt it is not an easy book to understand but it is there for us to read. ...


Sorry, I did not mean DON'T read, of course it should be read. I've read it a few times, even went through the Left Behind series which takes everything literally (I think, it has been a while).
But for day to day living … it is not my go to book!
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/19/20 02:31 PM

On Mark's explanation... Sent it to my bro - his reply: "Thanks. i'd have to read the rest (200+ pages?)...so far i partially agree w/this person except these things have mutated before (Ebola for ex) from animal to human from my understanding. What he hasn't brought up, which is critical (maybe the entire article does?) which would make his thoughts for me incomplete, is that there appears to be an HIV viral gene component inserted into this particular strain. If that turns out to be true, which i suspect is, then it was genetically engineered by humans.

Who penned this?""

John smile


Posted By: DonnaMarilyn

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/19/20 02:56 PM

According to the Scripps Research Institute, the coronavirus was not engineered by humans.

https://www.siasat.com/coronavirus-not-man-made-has-natural-origin-scientists-1861368/
Posted By: Mark Kaufman

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/19/20 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
On Mark's explanation... Sent it to my bro - his reply: "Thanks. i'd have to read the rest (200+ pages?)...so far i partially agree w/this person except these things have mutated before (Ebola for ex) from animal to human from my understanding. What he hasn't brought up, which is critical (maybe the entire article does?) which would make his thoughts for me incomplete, is that there appears to be an HIV viral gene component inserted into this particular strain. If that turns out to be true, which i suspect is, then it was genetically engineered by humans.

Who penned this?""

John smile




Hi John! It was a Facebook post from an Ohio city health department: https://shelbycityhealth.org/

Listen, no matter how or why Covid-19 originated, we are now in exactly the same position we were in in 1918, when the Spanish Flu swept through the planet. No matter how much technology we gain, plagues work the same way they've worked for centuries, and the response strategies are no different throughout the ages: sheltering in place is eventually the best way to reduce the death toll.

Roy just outlined his UK experience of how quickly we can get boxed out of all the help we always expect from our locality. In Italy, the hospitals are now overwhelmed, and the choices are made not to treat those over 80...who lives and who dies when you don't have enough equipment? It's a choice that must be made when the numbers blossom into catastrophic flower, as it is now doing in America. Two weeks from now look very grim.

Here's a message from Italy: https://www.newsweek.com/young-unaf...QKH0bCoYPMRuyTqfl5jM5TDujTMYJUih1feLCUt0

So listen to the chuckling deniers at your own peril...they're bluffing a weak hand when the cards are already on the table.
Posted By: Mark Kaufman

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/19/20 03:14 PM

Some people change their behavior to avoid getting infected, some people change their behavior to avoid getting people infected, and some people won't change.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/19/20 11:32 PM

The Wuhan Virus is the same as the Spanish Flu, except for the mortality rate. All Roy's experience taught me is that he probably didn't have it and he's doing fine.

How are Tom and Rita doing? Aside from their idiot son, they're fine. If you get the virus, and are under 70, you might be in for a rough two weeks, same as a bad bout of the flu, or other ailments.

If you're susceptible to media hysteria, you might be prone to run to an er for common symptoms, adding to overcrowding.

One lesson, indiscriminate immigration from certain nations might not be a great idea. Do they eat bat soup? Think about it.

Everette, Revelation primarily applied to Christians in the late first and early second centuries. Some of its symbols are fairly obvious. The seven hills are probably Rome. Much of it can be looked at in different ways.

The events of 1948 etc are nowhere mentioned therein and seeing it in the symbols requires some serious mental gymnastics. And the "generation" scriptures aren't found in Revelation. Most of those obviously applied to the first century.

Care must be exercised to avoid becoming those described in 2 Peter 3:16, twisting the scriprures to our own destruction.

Wash your hands, practice good hygiene and ignore 99% of the media. Except for Debra Messing...she's completely lucid.
Posted By: R&M

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/19/20 11:38 PM

There seems to be more at play than taking preventions or if there is the right shot. I have always been a germaphobe and will wash my hands after touching money and door handles. All there looks to be so far from the goverment is social isolation and so many people in one place. That is pretty grim.
There may be a shot that is given to people with what was used originally when they travel in the works for now. But what could happen with the pandemic seems pretty unavoidable. The thought of having to live without certain products (like toilet paper) like our ancestors. Perhaps there is an upside to that.
A lot of personal income will also be saved.
Posted By: Mark Kaufman

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/20/20 04:25 PM

Here's my prediction: within one month, US hospitals are going to be overwhelmed in a way you've never seen in your lifetime, by patients in real need, leading us to make hard choices about who gets life-saving treatment and who does not get life-saving treatment.

If I'm wrong, I'll come back and admit it, and I'll say I was hysterical. And if I'm right, I will wish I was not.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/20/20 06:43 PM

Newly available data suggests it's ALREADY much, much worse. Bono has released a song about it...
Posted By: DonnaMarilyn

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/20/20 06:45 PM

Mark, this article from the NYT makes for interesting reading.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/...k&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/21/20 11:21 AM

Interesting but scary read. A US blessing could become a curse. You are blessed with warm weather down South which draws many people from Northern climates to vacation on the beaches, to escape the winter for a few weeks or months. Especially the young college students when they get their March break. They head South to party on the beaches, they think they are invincible and are not afraid of the virus. Even being young with good immune systems, they can bring back the virus to their older love ones at home. Canada has imposed a 14 day isolation period on anyone entering Canada, even from the States. If this is not the big virus of end times ( I hope not) it may be just bad enough to wake us out of our slumber to be more prepared for the next pandemic.

I have not heard much from Russia or North Korea. Either they don't have much virus there or they are keeping it quiet.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/21/20 01:48 PM

It was reasonable to dismiss this as another flu, a minor threat, media hyped, say, two weeks ago. Trump himself downplayed it early, and has since taken it very seriously. I suspected media hype as well.

Now? A national emergency has been called, and Trump has a trillion dollar plan in order. Which, who spends a trillion dollars for a simple flu? I'm in nj, right near the epicenter, New york.

Would you explain now, how all business are being shutdown, they are ordering hundreds of thousands of respirators, and tests, and opening testing centers in parking lots state wide.

One family in NJ lost 4 family members,in back to back days cause of corona virus.

Trump is planning on mailing checks to people for lost wages and work and to stimulate the economy.

True,not a big amount of people die, but that doesn't mean you want it, or want to test how deadly it can be. It can permanently damage the lungs. And who needs the flu AND, this at the same time.

I don't have as grim of an outlook as Mark does, but I wouldnt announce non belief in this virus

And why all this movement in society for something that is an overblown media show? We don't know what this virus can do yet. No sports, no concerts, no live tv, no movies, no eating out, no shopping. The Dow is down, unemployment is way up.

Be smart, and educate when you need to. We're dealing with an unknown.

Either way, believe it or not, we have a massive problem. Financially, socially and emotionally.
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/21/20 08:06 PM

No one knows which way this virus will jump. It might fizzle out or become one like the black plague. We are so mobile these day which takes the virus to all the world in a short time. It is better to be over cautious than careless. We can recover from the economic hit but if we lose millions of people in the mean time, it will make the economic hit even longer and harder to recover from, plus those we lose are gone forever. The young people have to wise up because they may be the ones to spread it to their love one. So far they don't seem to take it seriously, but younger people are now starting to die from it. It might mutate in the young and become its main target.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/22/20 06:43 PM

Millions of people?? This is hysterical nonsense.

In related news, Idris Elba just posted a video of himself rapping about having the virus.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/22/20 07:34 PM

Couchgrouch, millions no, massive cost, massive toll in hospitals, the economy?


The number doesn't matter. We dont have enough money or space to treat everybody who gets it. It affects people giving birth, people having heart attacks, strokes, regular flu.

Layoffs,lockdowns. Why is this so funny to you? If you have any issues,you might not get treatment.

Maybe you aren't in a hot spot, but we're tallying 500 new cases everyday. We're do they all go? They are turning the Jacob javitz center into a make shift hospital.

But how do you know more than Trump and the cdc? I thought you loved Trump? Why are you laughing at him spending trillions seriously?

National debt? Good luck with that, draining the swamp?

I can't even bet a ballgame cause there are none.

It's bad, this just in.

Ps, when you get your assistance check far it to me
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/22/20 10:46 PM

This is no joke. It is a global pandemic. Yes, it will pass, but only if folks are sensible.

It's kill rate is over 4%, and rising. We do not have the medical resources to treat large numbers of critical patients.

Bunker down and be kind to your neighbours.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 12:55 AM

Roy, how are you doing?
Posted By: Roy Cooper

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Roy, how are you doing?

Thanks Gavin. I am OK.

Originally Posted by niteshift
This is no joke. It is a global pandemic. Yes, it will pass, but only if folks are sensible.niteshift


My sentiments exactly. Having fully recovered from whatever I had, I then had the job of finding everyday essentials.

The stores are almost empty of stock due to stockpiling, although my local Asda (Walmart) thankfully allowed us over 70s to have the first hour of opening times to ourselves, and I am sorted for the next week. Albeit just essentials.

I could have over stocked on some essentials, but resisted it, as I think we are all in this together.

I saw the video of a front line nurse in the news and it turned me to tears. My daughter is a front line doctor who tells me that It is worse than we know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmSPOSGpAYs

It doesn't take much to imagine the virus mutating or another coming along where the survival rate and mortality rate are reversed and age will not be a consideration.

This may be a test run on how we as a human race react to such a thing, and while so many are making sacrifices, too may are IMO acting totally selfish.
I am OK now, but who knows the future.

God Bless to all

Roy

Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 01:05 AM

Idris Elba DID post a video of himself rapping. Rita Wilson just did, too. My post above was no joke. Bono is a joke.

The overwhelming majority of those who have died already had extreme health issues. Italy's average age is 80s and 90s.

I was in line outside a supermarket and people were baffled at the hysterical response. The damage to the economy is real so I'll cash my check and be grateful for it.

I've never said I loved Trump. At any time. I have grown to despise the media.

And I still think bat soup is a bad idea.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 02:27 AM

CG, dying isn't the whole story. How bout being incapacitated for 14 days, how bout recovering but needing rescue inhalers and oxygen for rest of your life. This can be an overpowering illness for some, we don't know who it will be.

Anybody on arthritis meds, lupus meds, organ transplant meds can easily get and pass it on.

Why is so deadly to some and a nuisance to others we don't know. They think blood type makes some more prone

I agree people buying the entire grocery aisle is over reacting, and I think shows like walking dead influence some.

It's not that dismal, but it's one of the most depressing times for me I can think of. I've never seen society like this before.

To all stop over reacting, but also stop listening to rush limbaugh

Posted By: Brian Austin Whitney

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
Here's my prediction: within one month, US hospitals are going to be overwhelmed in a way you've never seen in your lifetime, by patients in real need, leading us to make hard choices about who gets life-saving treatment and who does not get life-saving treatment.

If I'm wrong, I'll come back and admit it, and I'll say I was hysterical. And if I'm right, I will wish I was not.



In our history that has ALWAYS meant that you take the sickest, most needy people first. They've ALWAYS done that with organ transplants for example. People sickest jump the line daily.

IF we see this shift to "you're already sick and you're over X years old and your TAX VALUE isn't what this healthier 34 year old's is, so you must die" then our society has lost it's way forever and I fear will never be put back in that bottle. And folks, I think we're an inch away from being there.

Anyone outside the current tax base will be the first to be cut off. Anyone younger who is chronically ill, or fighting a major illness (incl. any type of cancer, diabetes Type 1 & 2, Asthma, etc. will be next regardless of age. Then Children come next if they are under manual labor ages. Finally people of whatever ruling class then in charge will pick the slaves they wish to save.

Anyone here agree with this process? I don't but what if the entire population was at risk of total collapse? It WILL happen. Only the "elites" will be protected, as they ALREADY ARE!

Guess who were the first tested? Pro Athletes. Movies Stars. Politicians. RICH PEOPLE.

Want to hear the most depressing news item?

They wasted a precious test on HARVEY WEINSTEIN! Someone in jail for life, gets a test? Why? Because in the end, the ELITE protect their own.
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 11:37 AM

Sad to say Brian but you are right. In the animal kingdom it is the survival of the fittest, but with us it is the survival of the richest. In the near future, one quarter to one half of the earth's population will die from pestilence, famine and war. This could be the start now, only time will tell. People are not taking it seriously enough, I've seen on the news crowded beaches, mostly young people, crowded stores, crowded streets, etc. I don't know if they don't know how serious it is or don't care. The young think they are invincible but their parents and grand parents are not. People in grocery stores show how greedy they can be, much of the fresh fruit and vegetables will spoil before they can eat it, they have enough toilet tissue to last a year, hopefully this pandemic won't last a year. Even if it does, I'm sure the stores will replenish their stock many time in that year. I live on an Island with a population of about 500,000, 90% of the food we use comes in by truck and ship. They say at any one time there is only about 7 to 10 days food supply on this Island. Thank God the people here didn't rush out and buy a months supply of food, because that would mean many people would have nothing. We have some people that did that but most bought what they need from week to week. It takes something like this to show the true colours of people, most times it shows their bad traits, sometimes it shows their good traits. Very thin line between love and hate, greed and generosity. Stay well.
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 12:04 PM

I am very proud of the young folks from Europe here in Fiji.

One group of young Germans have said they will self isolate and not visit their parents when they get home. Another group of 10 young Spanish people have decided to stay here for a month and get a house together and sit it out.

I get annoyed when I see media reports where "young" people are not doing the right thing ( because essentially they are immune ) but they are very caring of the elders of whom they could infect.

Go young folks ! You are probably more responsible and better informed than your elders.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 02:37 PM

Being rich is part of being the fittest. Rich people have more resources to offer, that is still why some women go for rich men, they offer security.

Who else? Healthier youth, needed to continue the population, passing on healthy genes to the future generations.

I took ethics class. A doomsday situation was outlined, we were asked to rank the importance of remaining people and who we would recruif.

We all got schooled on the reality of life. Everybody said not to take along a hooker. Teacher said, "sounds like a survivor to me".

Emotions have no role, grandma and grandpa are of little value to the future of mankind. Unhealthy people neither. Healthy, good looking, wealthy people will always be picked first. That is, if the elite can enforce the law.

It's sad and sobering, but evolution was sad and cruel too.

That said, I bet all pro athletes who need elective surgery, will get them without restriction.

Your best strategy is to keep immune system strong. Get good sleep, exercise, wash hands and laugh.

Well be ok.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 05:00 PM

So I am actually surrounded by doctors. My wife, my sister, my brother in law, my daughter in law....

The key for them is the expected spread...its especially virulent...and the various mortality rates. As people here point out, it hits older people and those with certain medical conditions much much harder than anyone else.

For those who pooh pooh this, look at the evidence. There is a very steep transmission curve and although it cannot be yet determined what the actual "scientific" mortality rate is due to various factors (undiagnosed mild cases for example), anecdotal evidence does suggest it hovers around 3 to 4 percent of the general population with much higher rates for "clusters" in, for example nursing homes.

So as the numbers rise...although it is good to know that generally speaking 96% survive, what is really going on is that as people age, the death rate is much higher and survivor rates plummet from 96% downwards

But the "general" number appears to be as follows

cases 100,000 ....expected mortality 4,000
cases 1,000,000.....expected mortality 40,000
cases 10,000,000.....expected mortality 400,000
cases 100,000,000.....expected mortality 4,000,000

PRIMARILY OLDER PEOPLE & THOSE WITH CERTAIN CHRONIC CONDITIONS

The world's population is around 7.8 billion. Something called "herd immunity" develops as more and more people catch a virus or disease the body can fight with antibodies. Absent drugs that can fight the infection, the "herd" gets "culled" and the remaining population gains immunity, at least for a period of time. Now that happens by people going through the disease, or with vaccinations. The key is to gain immunity for a sufficient number of people so that the remainder of the population is less prone to its transmission.

But left unchecked, at maximum we lose 4% of almost 8 billion people which is 320 MILLION people...primarily seniors. (the Spanish flu killed 50 million) We can quible about the numbers but based on TODAYs evidence, that is close. Quibling would involve factoring in when exactly her immunity is achieved. the number appears to be about 70%, so lets say its not 320 Million but 70% of that (not good math but it illustrates the point). Still almost 225 MILLION.

Now that is WITHOUT intervention which is happening. Governments are ramping up production of medical supplies and equipment, researching vaccines etc and mandating people stop interacting in larger groups.

Social distancing does a few things
1) slows down the rate of viral infection which is good in itself, but is key to not overwhelming a medical system, giving countries time to scale up production of medical equipment and supplies...and moving patients trhough the system, researching vaccines etc

2) keeps vulnerable people safer. It's not foolproof, as nothing really is..but limiting the opportunity for exposure is key

3) it actually gives us a "psychic boost" in terms of taking some control back.


Given all this, there is no real need to panic. We are being asked to think of the elderly because that is what a caring society does. And social distancing works. The virus burns out if it cannot spread so using strategies based on "limiting physical proximity" make sense. It's why medical staff needs personal protection equipment to ensure there is a physical, impermeable barrier between themselves and their patients.

Now I am not trying to say the sky is falling. All I am saying is treat this episode of our lives with the necessary "respect" it deserves.



Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 07:49 PM

According to Idris Elba's interview with Oprah, he has virtually no symptoms (how and why was he even tested?), and yet wants us to know the virus is "real".

The media inspired panic is what's harming the US.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 07:58 PM

It's a bit like Russian roulette.

I think the unknown is the biggest factor. We assume this is like the flu, we don't know. We assume it will find its course, we don't know. We assume !lockdown will stop it... New Jersey reported 900 new cases today. Maybe 50 get critically ill, and maybe 2 die?

We don't know if this will be back stronger. It's a new viruses, never seen a mutation like this.
The celebrities who have gotten total maybe 10? Not a great cross section.

This is Not the flu. That's why they are tracking it so closely
Posted By: DonnaMarilyn

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 08:27 PM

Professor Hugh Montgomery explains one dramatic difference between the flu and the coronavirus.

https://www.facebook.com/Channel4/videos/205350940692388/?v=205350940692388
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 08:37 PM

Couch, get with the program here. Just because Idris did not feel anything, or escaped relatively unscathed just means he is lucky given his age, health, and access to health care.

And it is NOT a media inspired panic at all. The real problem is that no one trusts Trump or his government except his loyal sycophants. Fox News was in lockstep with Trump in denying there was a problem...,.all this elapsed time allowed the virus to spread. But let's not throw blame. Lots of time for looking back later.

For now, we know there is a large outbreak in the US. Where it goes we will know only after the fact given the incubation period. People think they are well, but are infectious as hell and just keep passing it on.

So do as the health professionals tell you. Keep your distance from people and practice personal and proximal hygiene. Full stop
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 08:50 PM

Again John that's the protocol for flu, it's still experimental here.

And I'm not a big Trump supporter, but I don't think trust in Trump has anything to do with it. I'm actually surprised trump is doing all he's doing, he wants to give Americans money, when others don't want him to. And this is a global pandemic, don't make it about trump.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 09:08 PM

Yeah Donna, the contagiousness is the big difference. And it may take millions of cases to produce significant death and illness, and it's still possible cause of how it spreads.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 09:20 PM

Not sure I understand your reference to "protocol for the flu, it's still experimental"

Quarantine has ALWAYS been a go to solution for highly contagious deseases. If the virus has no place to go, it burns out. It absolutely needs a host. And it is, be definition, influenza because it attacks the respiratory system and comes from a virus. So "social distancing" and quarantine helps prevent its spread.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 09:32 PM

I'm saying it's anew virus, not much is known, maybe quarantines don't work. Maybe the more people it comes in contact with, the weaker it gets. Maybe not.

The assumption. Is the other way. But it's not the flu.
It's not slowing down here despite lockdown. I think if subways aren't closed, it's not effective, they are not yet.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 09:41 PM

Happy to call it an infectious disease Fd.....and I agree it is new

But indicators are that isolation works. The lockdown in China serves as a good example.

And if it is still spreading despite the lockdown only means folks had it before they went into "personal quarantine" The illness only gets 'real" after several days...so folks who are now ill despite isolating themselves like had it before taking action.

But quis sais. I expect we will learn a lot more about it over the next months.

Stay safe
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 09:48 PM

We've had lockdown basicly since a week ago and we did t have many cases at all. Since the lockdown 500 to 1000 new cases every day. No evidence it would have been worse now. I'm just saying not all illnesses are the same
We have to do it, it's all we have but we don't know for sure
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 09:57 PM

I never mentioned Fox News or Trump. I do know Trump put a travel ban on China quite a while ago, and was rewarded by being called a "racist".

None of which is relevant to what I said. Elba's fine. He doesn't need special access to healthcare. Tom and Rita are fine, as are all the other high profile people who've contracted it.

Speaking of which, Daniel Dae Kim was treated with Tamiflu, an inhaler, some other stuff and the malaria med Trump held out hope for. Kim's fine.

There is a difference between the Wuhan Virus and the flu...the flu is much worse.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 10:02 PM

Worse but maybe not as contagious....
Posted By: Mark Kaufman

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 11:48 PM

Exponents matter.

“There were many, many opportunities not to end up where we are...basically, they took this as business as usual. ... And that’s because the messaging from the White House was ‘this is not a big deal, this is no worse than the flu.’ So that message basically created no sense of urgency within the FDA or the CDC to fix it.”

https://apnews.com/c335958b1f8f6a37b19b421bc7759722
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 11:55 PM

I have watched an hour of today's coronavirus task force meeting and trump is doing very well. He is coachable after all, I guess. I will never like the guy, but I can give credit where credit is due. I don't fully blame trump for the market meltdown, but I never gave him full credit for the rise either.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/23/20 11:56 PM

It's always easy to look intelligent with the benefit of hindsight.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/24/20 12:50 AM


Mark it probably isn't worse than the flu, it's just more contagious.

Even if we knew it was coming, How could you stop it?

Even now with all the coverage, people are not cooperating. Yeah, they'll buy 24 cans of tuna fish and 19 cans of peanut butter, but they'll be darned if they have to stay inside.

And anytime a Republican is willing to hand out 2 trillion, you have to at least credit them for temporary decency and humanity.

Hell, it wouldnt have surprised me if he had stepped down during this crisis, not want t anything to do with it. He surprised me.

I think if anyone thought this would hurt him, it might actually help him.

It still remains to be seen if all the plans are followed through....
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/24/20 12:56 AM

Couch and FD....here is info you can use....FD...it takes far less than "millions" to result in significant deaths...Couch, here is Johns Hopkins' straight goods


https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

Note the average mortality rate IS 4% which is higher than the flu. Note too Couch, that just because there's not a lot in Arizona does not mean the USA is escaping this

What we are facing is a highly contagious pandemic with a 4% death rate....primarily concentrated in older, chronically ill people. Younger people get off relatively unscathed. But there are definite exceptions as there are deaths in all but the youngest age groups.

So again, just because you can mention a few of the 96% who got through it does not mean 4 out of a hundred people will NOT die
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/24/20 01:16 AM

John in New Jersey there are 2900 cases with 21 deaths, that's not 4%, it's not even 1%. New York has 22,000 with 145 deaths

Not even 1% in either of the two worst states in us.

That said, your painting me and couch with the same brush. If you don't think I take this seriously and I'm not concerned you haven't been reading my posts
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/24/20 01:07 PM

Sorry FD, bad reading, mixed messages smile

WRT stats for NJ and NY, it MAY be a bit premature to determine the mortality rate because it is not yet over. Do hope you are right, that it is a higher proportion of the "sage groups" that are hit.
Posted By: Mark Kaufman

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/24/20 02:40 PM

Time to pay more attention to what's really happening than to our preferred opinions and say-sos, because these silent skies are staying for a long season, and this economic slowdown is going to grind on beyond our pocketbooks' capacity to keep living the normal life. Global depression looks unstoppable to me, so adjust your plans accordingly if you see the same.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/24/20 03:39 PM

A financial advisor said on TV last night, that you should set aside enough savings to last 6-12 months. This is a cushion everyone should've had. Though it's a little late now to be saving. Nice advice, but you're a day late and a dollar short.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/24/20 04:40 PM

A good friend of mine is a financial advisor, he's written two books. I'll ask him

Last time I talked to him he was simply asking if everything was ok

Being that vast majority of people live check to check,, that does sound feasible.

Thats why the lockdown will end before the virus doez
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 11:12 AM

Here in Canada we have a Liberal government trying to pass a bill that will give them powers to spend unlimited amounts of money for the next two years without having to get permission of the house to do so. At least that is the way it looks to me. If the opposition gives in, the Liberals can spend trillions of dollars without having to give explanation of where those dollars go. This could bankrupt the country. They have a minority government and if it goes to a vote of confidence, the government will fall, forcing an election. An election in a time of crisis will not only be ridiculous but will most likely put the Liberals back in power with a majority government to do what ever they like. A no win situation, we could end up like Cuba or Venezuela. God help us. I hope I am reading this wrong, I am no specialist on how governments work.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 04:13 PM

In line at Safeway this AM before it opened. No one was talking about the Wuhan Virus, solar panels or CLIMATE EXTINCTION. They're concerned about providing for their families.

CNN claiming a guy drank fish tank cleaner because it contained the same chemical as a malaria med is a despicable lie. The chemicals are different. The man tested positive for "stupid".

I stand by what I said, the media inspired madness will end up being worse than the virus, which so far, has been less of a threat to life than seasonal flu.

A local news station breathlessly reported an Arizona man died of the Wuhan Virus. Fortunately, I watched another channel that said the man was elderly with pre-existing conditions.

Many of those in the media are liars.

Heed Job 12:11 and let your "ear test out words".
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 04:26 PM

Well, we can't say happily that it only kills elderly and people with pre existing conditions, so screw them.
They have to try and prevent mass people from getting it to protect those who can die from it.

The governor's of ny and nj can't be lying saying they need 30,000 respirators when they received 400. I mean many thousands are being treated in icu.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 04:33 PM

No. Quarantine those at high risk and let the country get back to work before it's ruined beyond repair.

As for NY, next time its health bureaucrats shouldn't encourage people to ignore the Wuhan Virus and come on down to the Chinese Lunar New Year's parade. Woke idiocy.

Same with Italy. They have a large Chinese immigrant population and some moron told citizens to "hug a Chinese person" to combat "racism". That worked out well.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 04:52 PM

So you lose high risk people from the work force. Millions have asthma, diabetes and heart disease, all huge risks. Obese people too.

And it wasn't just Ny who didn't take it seriusly. The leader of the free world denied it too.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 05:53 PM

Yup Couch, we must all bow down to the Almighty Dollar first and foremost, and let the devil take the hindmost.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 05:54 PM

If you mean Trump, he banned travel from China early on. And he didn't actively encourage people to attend a friggin Chinese parade.

It's hard for people to accuse Trump of ignoring the Wuhan Virus and at the same time accuse him of racism and xenophobia for not ignoring it.

The fact is, in my experience, people are far more concerned with losing their homes and livelihoods than being ill with flu-like symptoms for 10 days.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 06:05 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tr...es-common-flu-kills-thousands-every-year

That was March 9, since then an emergency has been called and he signed a 2 trillion deal for help. Why? Apparently he was wrong or else likes spending 2 trillion.

I don't blame trump, but his China ban was after it was here already.

You may not realize it, but you like Trump alot.
Posted By: Mark Kaufman

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 09:37 PM

People in line at the grocery store are not in Intensive Care Units, which is really lucky for them. We have 235 ICU beds in Minnesota, and we're hoping to slow the progress of Covid-19 infections well enough and in time to prevent the need for 1000+ within weeks. Atlanta is at peak capacity.

The thing about flu deaths in the US is that we're not deciding them based on available ICU space. But that reality is inescapable for the US, and very shortly.

I hope the best for all of you. I know more and more people directly affected and it is a bastard, and if it kills you, be prepared to die alone...no visitors.
Posted By: ckiphen

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 09:43 PM

Couldn't resist:

The sky is falling

Verse
Logic goes out the window
When panic takes control.
People act like they’re crazy.
As if they’ve lost their souls.
Pre chorus
Hysteria, hysteria.
A snowball rolling downhill.
A snowball rolling downhill.
Chorus
The sky is falling, the sky is falling.
It’s the end of the world.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling.
It’s the end of the world.
Verse
Markets tumble in freefall.
The store shelves all go bare.
People rush to horde their goods.
Nobody thinks to share.
Pre chorus
Hysteria, hysteria.
A snowball rolling downhill.
A snowball rolling downhill.
Chorus
The sky is falling, the sky is falling.
It’s the end of the world.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling.
It’s the end of the world.
Bridge
It spreads as if it’s a wildfire
Blown to a rage by the wind.
Could this be a warning from god?
A punishment for our sins.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 09:54 PM

Ck, that's very poorly written.

John, it's been a fact of human existence for thousands of years, it runs on commerce. Without jobs, there is no pay. Without pay there is no food or housing. Without that, people
WILL die. Infrastructure will disintegrate. When society does reintegrate, what will be among the first to start up? Solar panels!!! No, the barter system, then currency.

In order to keep our society intact and healthy, the economy must be stabilized. That's common sense.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 10:38 PM

All I know is New York and New Jersey are getting thousands of cases every day 5 k from yesterday.

They say we are three weeks away from peaking.
Getting back to work is important and vital but there is no way Easter this lockdown ends
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 10:48 PM

No issue with that argument Couch....except for a big but....

First off, MAYBE we are making too much of a big deal about it, but there is no question this pandemic is virulant and affects the elderly and chronically ill the most.

So let's say we set people back to work. Because isolation is the ONLY way to let this virus burn out, it WILL run its course through the population that is interacting closely. The virulence means that lots and lots of people will be infected. Now, many people WILL get past it. No doubt. But many will also die. In a population of 300 million, the EXPECTED rate of mortality is 12 million.

Now lets say we take your suggestion and isolate the elderly and chronically ill to try and minimize that percentage...it in fact sounds like a reasonable plan. But tell us where exactly will this be done? How will they be fed? Who will look after them? Under your scenario, the rest of the population will be infected and building up immunity. The isolated population will be at risk during and AFTER their isolation...having no immunity. They will be interacting with the non isolated.

So you have to be prepared that under your scenario, people who could have been saved will die. The medical system WILL be overwhelmed because many young people will also present themselves in ERs across the country.

That is why I was perhaps a bit too sarcastic with you.

And I expect you yourself will be fine. Not a big presence currently in Arizona, you are I think in your mid fiftees if I remember correctly, and I expect you can easily stay away from the infected.

But not everyone has that luxury.

WRT to people and money. Governments are bailing out the population. I do hope lots of money makes it into the hands of consumers vs business, because consumers will spend their government cheques and provide businesses with the cash flow they need.

We need the money to trickle UP because we absolutely know it does not trickle down.The big Trump tax cut to businesses was almost all used for share buybacks and dividends to business owners...while it was announced it should be great for employment and wages.




Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 11:02 PM

The most vulnerable are people with Diabetes...millions, heart diseae...millions, asthma and copd...millions...people who received organ transplants, people on immune suppressive drugs, and cancer patients. You could not quarantine all of them, there would be no workers. Quarantining the elderly might work for them.

One thing it teaches us is how helpless we really are against viral and bacterial breakouts, we may actually be lucky this one wasn't as lethal as some can be.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 11:20 PM

A big factor in this is that it's regional.
And the negative effects and whether resources are overwhelmed for a prolonged period of time will have a lot to do with where you are.
Half of this is on New York-30,811,
then NJ-4402 (which together could be considered a region.
Distant 3rd and 4th are WA and CA.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

I dont know how this plays all the way out, but here in Texas-1105 , I am hoping that the crest wont be that bad and that the supplies and some effective drugs wont lag behind the outbreaks by too long.

I hope that everyone reading this is symptom free.

Martin
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/25/20 11:29 PM

Here in NJ I cant buy a box of pasta. No sooner do they fill the shelf and they are gone in 20 minutes. People haven't gotten the memo yet, food will still be available.

But we have it the worst here in NY, NJ area than anywhere else in the world to date, at least per population density.

Italy has the most people dying and they think that's cause a lot of Italy's young live with their parents and grand parents

It's weird so many report mild symptoms, others describe horror stories.
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/26/20 10:33 AM

We have 67 here with the virus, which doubled since the day before. Ages from 8 to 78. A 20 year old just died and a 12 year old is fighting for her life. If it mutates again it could be much worst for the young. The unknown is what makes this virus so scary. It might fizzle out or go crazy. So we fight it the best way we know how. We try to limit its host, which are us, to its exposure. No doubt the media are playing it up to the hilt, and no doubt this will soften the world up to accept world government. Tough times ahead. But we do what we must to survive.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/26/20 01:25 PM

Martin, it is only regional for now but as a pandemic, by definition it spreads. So what is regional could very well be national next month. The numbers do not lie. Look at Europe right now. What started in Italy is all over Europe now as folks mixed and mingled during the incubation period of several days...a period when everyone still feels well

You have to look at the trend, not point in time data. And "hope" is not a strategy here. In order to prevent the spread doctors are simply urging you to do two things

1) stay home as much as you can
2) keep your distance from others

If the virus cannot spread, it burns out..

And your LT Gov is an idiot, saying old people are quite willing to die to save the economy for their grand children....essentially urging them to go back to work and accept the risk of dying. There are so many things to unpack here I'm not even going to bother.

Modern society should not be looking at acceptable levels of death to retain some economic status quo due to an outbreak like this.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/26/20 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Martin, it is only regional for now but as a pandemic, by definition it spreads. So what is regional could very well be national next month. The numbers do not lie. Look at Europe right now. What started in Italy is all over Europe now as folks mixed and mingled during the incubation period of several days...a period when everyone still feels well

You have to look at the trend, not point in time data. And "hope" is not a strategy here. In order to prevent the spread doctors are simply urging you to do two things

1) stay home as much as you can
2) keep your distance from others

If the virus cannot spread, it burns out..

And your LT Gov is an idiot, saying old people are quite willing to die to save the economy for their grand children....essentially urging them to go back to work and accept the risk of dying. There are so many things to unpack here I'm not even going to bother.

Modern society should not be looking at acceptable levels of death to retain some economic status quo due to an outbreak like this.





John

I am not diminishing the severity of the disease. I have washed my hands more times in the last two weeks than in the prior 67 years of my life. And will continue to do so until the graphs indicate flattening and descending occurrence rates. I dont get take-out. I dont want anyone touching anything that I eat other than my wife who appears symptom free. I go out twice a day and stay 6 feet and beyond from others.

But mitigation has started across the country, and the pandemic is not just running its natural course unimpeded. The ongoing infection rate is not what it would have been without that.
So I am hopeful that within the next 7-10 days, in Houston, it will plateau. I am hoping, for that reason, that it wont overwhelm staff and supplies in town here. The Houston mayor has done a good job of keeping rumor and hysteria in check..

In NY, they are looking at a massively larger infected population and a much bigger problem to deal with.

As for Patrick, always saw him as a vanity boy who saw an opportunity here to have his "Gipper" moment and his vanity would not let him pass on it. That's just to be ignored as aberrant noise.. If he wants to proceed without due caution and take one for the kiddies.. all I ask is that he stay away from me.


Thanks for your concern.
Stay safe. Listen to your relatives. I get good advice through medical friends and acquaintances. And I pay close attention to what they say.


Martin





Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/26/20 02:13 PM

It's unreal here. They opened a drive through testing site at a college, and every day it has to shutdown due to cars backed up to test.I

They are now taking down basketball hoops cause kids are still doing pickup games. That's a lot of hoop downing. Basketball is a rite of passage for the youth. New York is the basketball mecca

I think it's regional only in relation to the amount of people in an area. NYC most people are so sardined the way we live. Has to be the hardest city to enforce social distancing. in my we got newark which some areas are not even allowed outside without emergency.

Yeah the concern is mutation and a second wave. If China gets a second wave well know our fate.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/26/20 02:19 PM

Hey Martin et al...Here's a good list of practical things we can do ourselves.



1) Avoid crowds. Consider wearing light gloves in public ..especially when shopping

2) Stay away 2 to 3 steps away from people and avoid those who are sneezing or coughing

3) Avoid close contact with the elderly and people with weakened immune systems.

4) Avoid shaking hands and physical contact

5) Wash your hands frequently and thoroughly with soap or alcohol rub

6) Sneeze into a tissue or your elbow

7) Use paper tissues to handle public objects and dispose of them as needed

8) Avoid touching your face with your hands, which may have picked up the virus

9) If you have a cold, a cough, sore throat or a fever stay home. Avoid contact with others. Only call your doctor if your symptoms get worse.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/26/20 02:24 PM

And one big step being advocated by health experts

[Linked Image]


Before you take offence...it is meant to be funny.
Posted By: Mark Kaufman

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/26/20 04:18 PM

There really are no "safe zones", just "slower to see the virus zones".

Understand the concept of exponential growth...double a number, then double that, etc. That's demonstrably happening with infections. Count the daily number of infections in your state and grasp how quickly it keeps doubling. Every three days or so? Do the math. Then think about the timing of AMERICA'S GRAND REOPENING SALE—THIS EASTER! Be the first one to beat the crowd!

Hunker down, prepare for some self-sacrifice and inconvenience and desire for simple things you can't seem to find anymore. This is the life we always knew was coming someday, the harder one.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/26/20 04:43 PM

The predictions (that I have seen) of death outcomes from this virus span scenarios from one that turns the corner in the next couple of weeks in most locations...to a prediction of 80,000 will die from it by the time its over.

My suggestion is to click this link to Johns Hopkins compilations.

Learn what it is telling you
Check it often
Believe it first and your favorite human being second..
conduct your personal life with caution.

The data is imperfect but less so than a politician or a media talking head.

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Posted By: Mark Kaufman

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/26/20 06:01 PM

https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...new-yorks-coronavirus-outbreak-is-just-a

The death toll depends on our current response. This is a terrible time to push for social activity in the name of economic health..But as far as I'm concerned, the ones who insist on that are free to go right ahead without those of us who won't. Darwin made some very good points.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/26/20 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...new-yorks-coronavirus-outbreak-is-just-a

The death toll depends on our current response. This is a terrible time to push for social activity in the name of economic health..But as far as I'm concerned, the ones who insist on that are free to go right ahead without those of us who won't. Darwin made some very good points.


"The Hill?"

When I said in my prior post to believe stats from JHU before you put credence in "your favorite human" I had sources like The Hill in mind.
Sean Hannity is pushing some party-line crap that I consider callous and immoral. Basically trying to figure ways to persuade people to abandon mitigation prematurely. As if he had any idea of the actual realities involved. I'm sure that you agree.
I just watched a CNN interviewer grand stand and sensationalize an interview with over the top doomsday assumptions. Clearly trying to scare people as much as she can and bring the world to her.

Why? Because it's click bait.
If you want to be deceived then put credence in crap coming from political fire starters like "The Hill."

If you want some idea of reality look at the stats put out by Johns Hopkins.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/26/20 07:26 PM

Absolutely agree Martin. If you want medical information, you go to trusted scientific\academic sources. Any news source is inferior to a highly ranked university or clinic.

The absolute biggest problem IMO is that WWW is absolutely full of web sites putting out bad information.

I have a good friend who is otherwise very very smart....who pooh poohs this pandemic, calls it a big scam by big pharma, and says COVID deaths are insignificant in comparison to opiod deaths, car accidents etc. He also claims says there is a cure for cancer, but it is being witheld because it is cheap and would wreak havoc with the cancer industry, that hyperbaric chambers are a health panacea as are REIKI waves...it goes on and on. Every now and again I just have to tell him to STFU .

I've told him many a time now that well googled but not well read.

But people still believe the nonsense
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/26/20 11:26 PM

Wow we are seeing thousands of cases per day, ny has 37000, we got over 6 thousand, just the other day I typed 2900.

Hoboken medical center released a statement today that they have 6 days to get ventilators or they'll force doctors to decide who gets them.

All this talk about splitting respirators that sounds weird sharing a ventilator with another patient.

Trump did sign an emergency package for newjersey so well see how fast it helps.

Strange times, I walked passed a woman who had a carriage, I cut across the street to protect them and ease her possible fears.

I was rewarded with one of the dirtiest looks I've ever gotten. I did it for her not me.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 02:24 AM

Expected rate of mortality is twelve million?? Preposterous fear mongering.
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 11:15 AM

Wrong. The death rate per million is 3.8%, do the figures.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by niteshift
Wrong. The death rate per million is 3.8%, do the figures.

cheers, niteshift


Correct for World stats. USA is around 1.4%. My home state is less than 1%. Of course, this is just from the available data. No way of knowing the real stats..

John smile
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 11:55 AM

Hey John, quite correct.

My quote was from Johns Hopkins who are only collecting verified data. The real rate is probably somewhat higher.

Stats here..... https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Italy and Spain seem to have an exceptionally high kill rate. Mainly elder men. Not so good for me. I am somewhat older and have a small amount of Spanish blood. Bugger !

Stay safe guys , and please just be sensible.

cheers,, niteshift
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Originally Posted by niteshift
Wrong. The death rate per million is 3.8%, do the figures.

cheers, niteshift


Correct for World stats. USA is around 1.4%. My home state is less than 1%. Of course, this is just from the available data. No way of knowing the real stats..

John smile


Good point. And that will be true throughout this.
However as someone said to me...Trust figures from Johns Hopkins. You cant rely on them to be completely accurate or completely consistent...but you can rely on their information gathering and methodologies to be consistent. And their public statements will be more of a narration than an attempt to snare attention.
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 12:58 PM

Well said John. They just gather information the best they can and put out their available facts without comment.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 02:45 PM

You can't say the mortality rate is just 1% when it is clear that the expected rate is 4-5% from the aggregate numbers

That you have 1% now means that people are still waiting to die....your rate is a "spot rate"...where it is today. But you have to wait for this to run its course through the infected population before you can start putting any faith in your numbers.

Look at the numbers in 10 days or so...
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 03:12 PM

My theory is, and everybody has a theory, is they are focusing on deaths and inflating it because they want to make sure they stop the spread so that the cost to hospitals doesn't explode.

The death rate is bad, even if the % is not because if there was no corona, none of the deaths would have happened.

But the death rate is not as significant as the cost and strain on the hospitals.

Just cause people aren't dying they are still suffering and still being treated, which could actually cause deaths to other people who bring have document other things.

The death rate has been a steady 1 to 1.5 % for while now. That's probably the rate. Even still nobody wants to be in that group, and nobody wants to be lying in icu sharing a ventilator with someone else.

Also nobody wants to be in a hospital if they don't need to. Both my parents went into the hospital in bad but not dire situations, and neither of them made it out. Pneumonia in the hospital kills probably as many people as it does having before you go in.

Plus super bugs that lurk in hospitals a rare form killed my dad, his immune system didnt even form antibodies to it, which means the bug can hide from the immune system.

Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 03:17 PM

I think that region matters a lot in terms of projecting curves. In the city limits of Houston, Texas;

(fact) There are currently 69 confirmed cases.
(fact) There are 2.3 million people in the city limits.

That is not a disaster.

(presumption) In talking to health care professionals that I know personally there are many more wards filled with PRESUMPTIVE but UNTESTED cases.
(presumption) There are people walking around right now who feel fine but carry the virus.
(presumption) those people and others who dont observe mitigation will infect more.

For me...the focus becomes what I think of the PRESUMPTIVE numbers.
Before this virus runs its' course in my city...will the confirmed cases swell from 69 to several hundred? several thousand? several tens of thousands? several hundreds of thousands?


I don't know. The reported and reliable stats don't seem to be extended enough to conclude anything.
As testing kits become more available, hopefully good information will also. So I wait and watch.


For NYC or Omaha or NOLA...waiting and watching likely looks different.

My 2 cents. Worth what you paid for it.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 04:37 PM

I thought Trump was acting responsibly and was doing a good job, but this is not going to help him. His home state nonetheless

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-coronavirus-ventilators-new-york-state-030627060.html
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 04:53 PM

Hey Fd,

I've been a pathologist for over 35 years. Trust Johns Hopkins and their figures.They are underestimated because they only rely on verified fact.

The course of this disease is on on exponentially upward trend.

Just do the right thing, and stay home. Wash your hands and practice social isolation.

cheers, niteshift.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 05:02 PM

That's your occupation?

I usually get the Hopkins reports, which says it's about 1 to 1.5 %. Problem is
The Hopkins results are associated with politically slanted news reporting. One article citing Hopkins was from news max

I believe their numbers. I'm right here where it's happening, can't bs me. A lot of hospitals can't function.

I'm sure we shall overcome but it's amazing how nowadays no media left or right can be trusted.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 05:15 PM

Fd here is the map they keep updated https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

Currently 566,269 cases worldwide with 25,423 deaths...that is a rate of about 4.4% and 127,768 people have recovered....meaning there are still 400k + people working their way through it.

This 4+ percent is the rate the experts keep telling us about. Why would the US experience be any different?
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I thought Trump was acting responsibly and was doing a good job, but this is not going to help him. His home state nonetheless

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-coronavirus-ventilators-new-york-state-030627060.html



Huffington Post is a far left propaganda rag set up to inflame the passions of a targeted group. Newsmax is a counterpart. Propaganda rags are the first tier of things to be ignored.
Maybe there is some truth to what they say, maybe not. But the propagandists on both sides have not called a truce in their turd tossing wars even though people are actually dying.
They are in it for themselves and advertising money.

As Rahm Emanuel said..."Never waste a good crisis."
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 05:25 PM

Nobody has it worse than ny and it's just not 4%, it's not

I think its partly cause we also have the greatest medical resources I mean people come from all over the world to do surgery and see specialists.

So, other countries might have higher death rates than us.

Again, I'm not sure why the death rate is the be all and end all, high or low.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 05:31 PM

I know Marty I don't trust huff po or newsmax, but he did say what he said. He doesn't believe new York needs it.

something like that doesn't need a source. He said it on Hannitys show. Hannity is another great honest American too...
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I know Marty I don't trust huff po or newsmax, but he did say what he said. He doesn't believe new York needs it.

something like that doesn't need a source. He said it on Hannitys show. Hannity is another great honest American too...


Hannity is Trump's defacto press secretary. He is a propagandist and still screaming foul about this and that as if the game was still full on but merely changed stadiums.
I'm 67 and in good health, but if I were to find myself in a hospital bed with fluid on my lungs and increasing difficulty breathing, I wouldn't care about any of the politics. I would just want to survive.
I wish that all the fire starters would realize that fully.

I think Trump's admin is doing a good job at this. I think that Cuomo is doing a good job for his state. I hope that they both do even better jobs.
Posted By: Mark Kaufman

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 08:19 PM

According to Johns Hopkins, the US is now the hotspot of the world, and climbing rapidly. But we'll save big money at the mall this Easter.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 09:22 PM

I don't know if the admin is doing a good job or not. They were dealt a bad hand and seem to be getting their act together -- better late than never. Of course, what didn't help was the massive denial from trump and fox news during the early part of the virus outbreak. It does bother me that he continues to blame past administrations and the "fake news" for all his problems -- he has been in command for three years. But let's go back to the remarks that are on record (at least some of them).

Trump on coronavirus
January 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
February 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”
February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”
February 25: “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”
February 25: “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”
February 26: “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”
February 26: “We're going very substantially down, not up.”
February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”
February 28: “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”
March 2: “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”
March 2: “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”
March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”
March 5: “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”
March 5: “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”
March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”
March 6: “Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”
March 6: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”
March 6: “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”
March 8: “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”
March 9: “This blindsided the world.”
March 13: "I am officially declaring a national emergency - two very big words."
March 13: ‘I Don’t Take Responsibility at All’
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 10:48 PM

He had and still has a golden opportunity to virtually seal his next term. I mean Biden doesn't look coherent.

My guess is when it hits the next state like they think New Orleans could be the next epicenter, but they might not get the same support. I mean are they gonna sign billion dollar rescue plans for every state?

But I think he still has the chance to be a hero, or a zero. Time will tell
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 11:34 PM

Yeah yeah Kevin...

Trump responded initially very poorly, but when the virus made clear that it was a massive threat...he got mobilized and is doing pretty well at it.
Someone(s) else thinks so because his approval rating rose to a new high.

COV-FEFE
The meaning of that famous and nonsensical phrase is now revealing itself.. wink


But I tell you what...If slamming Trump makes your world feel better, have at it.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/27/20 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
He hhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covfefe

But I think he still has the chance to be a hero, or a zero. Time will tell


For real.
The virus has to wind down and the economy has to wind up.

However, Biden is shaping up to be such a poor candidate, he could be Trump's wild card no matter what the circumstance.
Cuomo's star is rising in this. He is doing a good job for New York. The dems might try to talk Joe into stepping down for him. But that is per BS speculation.

Have a good weekend and mitigate. wink
Posted By: 90 dB

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/28/20 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
I don't know if the admin is doing a good job or not. They were dealt a bad hand and seem to be getting their act together -- better late than never. Of course, what didn't help was the massive denial from trump and fox news during the early part of the virus outbreak. It does bother me that he continues to blame past administrations and the "fake news" for all his problems -- he has been in command for three years. But let's go back to the remarks that are on record (at least some of them).

Trump on coronavirus
January 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
February 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”
February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”
February 25: “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”
February 25: “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”
February 26: “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”
February 26: “We're going very substantially down, not up.”
February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”
February 28: “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”
March 2: “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”
March 2: “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”
March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”
March 5: “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”
March 5: “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”
March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”
March 6: “Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”
March 6: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”
March 6: “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”
March 8: “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”
March 9: “This blindsided the world.”
March 13: "I am officially declaring a national emergency - two very big words."
March 13: ‘I Don’t Take Responsibility at All’





Curious that you didn't cite the source for your Copy/Paste, Kevin.


https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213091481


Curious, indeed. Democratic Underground?


How very subversive of you , comrade. smirk
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/28/20 08:41 AM

Please stop the politics. This is a medical issue...... and it is VERY serious.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/28/20 11:33 AM

db90: I have never heard of the democraticunderground. Many sites are showing that same timeline of quotes. In the end, I don't care what the site is as long as the information is accurate. If the info was accurate and came from fox (which I check everyday) or rush, then I am not opposed to it. There is no doubt that all of those quotes are accurate and not taken out of context. Are you questioning the accuracy of any of those statements?
Here are his own words: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvE9hCZ-jaU

niteshift: you are 100% correct, I will do my best to avoid falling into the "political trap" game.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/28/20 02:33 PM

The minute somebody says "this is media hyped, I don't believe it" it becomes political. The solution to the problem is very political, because the government is writing the check. When businesses are closed and people are laid off, it's very political.

Politics are inescapable, I'm surprised it did t happen sooner. I agree with Nite shift that it's not the time for bickering just because you !ean one way.

I'm in the middle on politics and this is no different. Trump has acted both responsibly and irresponsibly during this, so that's my thoughts on him.

But the political bullying guys cmon, at least argue about the politics of this situation, not politics in general.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/28/20 03:25 PM

I came across some information this morning that I thought (possibly) helpful in understanding the pandemic.

Texas has a population of 29.9 million people and 1,950 total COVID cases.
New York (state) has a population of 19.54 million and 46,262 COVID cases

I'm not suggesting any conclusions to draw from that. I am certainly not saying Texas-good, NY-bad.

I am just putting it out there to consider as the pandemic progresses. The Federal govt has delegated a lot of authority to the states and your local decisions may be very different than somewhere else.. The threat to you may be very different and the road out of this may look very different.

The new case growth "rate" in the USA did appear to decelerate slightly, though one day is not a trend...and it is still a lot of new cases...but one can hope for a trend..
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/28/20 03:51 PM

This just in from CNN...Kathy Griffin blames Trump for death
of Game of Thrones direwolf...
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/28/20 03:56 PM

There's possibly a lot of reasons for that difference.

The state of New York contains the city of New York. The city that never sleeps, it's the world city. The travel back and forth, the international connections, the hustle and bustle lifestyle. And much of life is sandwiched in
It's not unusual for one main drag to have hundreds of not thousand of people all walk in passed one another. Hundreds could be in the same corner waiting for a walk sign. Not unusual for hundreds of people to walk out of a skyscraper for lunch.

Hundreds and thousands riding busses, trains, cabs. I mean there is never a time when a large crowd is not present everywhere barring a snow storm. And flights every minute of the day.

And other cities in New York are similar.

In Texas you have many country areas and areas with not as much clustering. I'm sure Dallas and Houston are similar to new York city. But those other areas might skews the numbers verse reality

It's just not that surprising to me that the most relevant and travelled city In the world would have the biggest problem with a communicable disease.

I wouldn't expect other states to have this big of aproblem, but it's going there regardless.

And under normal curcumstances, there's no better hospital system to be In. If you need one...just not right now
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/28/20 04:47 PM

FD

All true. NYC is an international city,

major port of entry with people passing through terminals to transfer on as well as enter the city.
Very heavy reliance on mass transit, subways and taxis and buses
Densely packed sidewalks
Every entertainment venue possible, stadiums and theaters.

All places where the virus can transmit through the air and deposit itself on handles, handrails , door knobs, chair seats and on and on.

Yet, the discrepancy between the number of cases in Houston and NYC is still staggering. More than I would have expected.

The bad news for NYC? It is built around that lifestyle. And as long as the virus lingers or worse, re-infects...the contagion could fire back up in the subways and sidewalks.
The bad news for all of us? The USA needs NYC to prosper.



Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/28/20 05:36 PM

Even with the current lockdown in New Jersey the two most obvious places are still open. Grocery stores which is hilarious if they thought they wouldn't get hundreds of people in the store at once.

But also subways and trains are still open, atm machines with all those fingers on them, all that is still contributing to it. Good thing we don't have payphones any more.

And perhaps the biggest tragedy of all is I needed a hair cut two months ago, last get together people were getting on me about it, now I'll have to wait another month at least.

I'm starting to look like bono in that where the streets have no name video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GzZWSrr5wFI

Don't forget every grocery you buy could have been touched or sneezed on by somebody else.

Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/29/20 03:23 AM

From Joy Reid on MSNBC...NOLA mayor blames Trump for not warning him of Wuhan threat before Mardi Gras. So, in addition to traditional Mardi Gras transmissions of Herpes, Syphilis and Hepatitis, plus alcohol poisoning, heroin ODs and run of the mill homicides, NOLA must now deal with Mardi Gras revelers with flu-like symptoms...
Posted By: Moosesong

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/29/20 06:21 AM

When I think of Trumps wasted weeks of inaction in February, and Fox News calling it all a Democratic Hoax, I recall a rather embarrassing story about myself.

it was one or two months after I had started living on my own, One evening I noticed a few ants in and around the sugar bowl. There were no more than 15. Less than 0.00001 percent of the kitchen was ant infested. I was tired and decided it could wait till morning and went to sleep. As you might imagine, the next morning, there were a few thousand ants all over the kitchen. Was my decision dumb and lazy? yes it was. Just like Trumps early decisions on this crisis. All I can say in my defense is that unlike trump, I did not have any experts trying to convince me otherwise. and unlike trump, I did not claim to have no responsibility for the bad result of my slow reaction.

The tool in the shed that ignores the very smartest tools in the shed, is a truly dull tool indeed.

The above is what I am sure of. The below is merely my theory.

The descrepency between 1% and 4% mortality rate might be due to the care given to the most critical cases.

80% of the infected people will have no/mild/moderate symtoms. For those people covid19 will be no worse and often less severe than the ordinary flu. But the other 20 percent will need medical help.

Maybe the breakdown of that 20 percent is 16-3-1.
16% recover with doctor and possibly some hospital care.
3 percent can recover with ICU intensive care and ventilators.
1% had no chance at all.

It will in interesting/infuriating to see how many of the 3% survive with ventilators, or will some die for lack of ventilators and ICU units. Whose hands will their blood be on? Trump? Fox News? or just people that didn't take social distance seriously?
Posted By: Brian Austin Whitney

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/29/20 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Couch, get with the program here. Just because Idris did not feel anything, or escaped relatively unscathed just means he is lucky given his age, health, and access to health care.

And it is NOT a media inspired panic at all. The real problem is that no one trusts Trump or his government except his loyal sycophants. Fox News was in lockstep with Trump in denying there was a problem...,.all this elapsed time allowed the virus to spread. But let's not throw blame. Lots of time for looking back later.

For now, we know there is a large outbreak in the US. Where it goes we will know only after the fact given the incubation period. People think they are well, but are infectious as hell and just keep passing it on.

So do as the health professionals tell you. Keep your distance from people and practice personal and proximal hygiene. Full stop




ALL the networks downplayed it well after grim reports were readily available on YouTube smuggled out of China. ALL OF THEM! Why is it people's opinions about this devolved into MORONIC Left/Right political paradigms? Either we start working TOGETHER and ignore the media war drums of division, or we all DIE TOGETHER.
Posted By: Roy Cooper

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/29/20 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney

So do as the health professionals tell you. Keep your distance from people and practice personal and proximal hygiene. Full stop

Either we start working TOGETHER and ignore the media war drums of division, or we all DIE TOGETHER.


Well said Brian.

I am still in isolation as is most of London at this time. But have no symptoms.

There are still those who have no sense. I saw some 20 year olds in a group last night keeping their distance from each other, but 1 idiot with them was weaving close to them all and making contact with them.

At the supermarket yesterday, who are allowing the front line health health workers and us pensioners the first hour to shop on our own, some were trying to pretend they were health workers to jump the line....didn't work though.

I think keeping busy helps being alone at home. Personally I have a 3d printer and have been making masks for friends and family, and anyone else who needs one..

The original design was free on the net, and I modified and improved it.. I am also putting it on the web for others to download if they have a 3d printer.

2 versions shown below.

[Linked Image]

files for making are here

I hope that you all keep safe and look after each other...

God Bless to all

Roy
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/29/20 10:41 AM

Well said Brian,

Let the MORONS debate the issue, whilst sensible people do the right thing.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/29/20 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Couch, get with the program here. Just because Idris did not feel anything, or escaped relatively unscathed just means he is lucky given his age, health, and access to health care.

And it is NOT a media inspired panic at all. The real problem is that no one trusts Trump or his government except his loyal sycophants. Fox News was in lockstep with Trump in denying there was a problem...,.all this elapsed time allowed the virus to spread. But let's not throw blame. Lots of time for looking back later.

For now, we know there is a large outbreak in the US. Where it goes we will know only after the fact given the incubation period. People think they are well, but are infectious as hell and just keep passing it on.

So do as the health professionals tell you. Keep your distance from people and practice personal and proximal hygiene. Full stop




ALL the networks downplayed it well after grim reports were readily available on YouTube smuggled out of China. ALL OF THEM! Why is it people's opinions about this devolved into MORONIC Left/Right political paradigms? Either we start working TOGETHER and ignore the media war drums of division, or we all DIE TOGETHER.



Well that was obviously directed at me. My apologies for responding. I will take my moronic ass out of this conversation
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/29/20 03:07 PM

No John he's not telling you to get lost.

The biggest denier of all was Trump, but he turned it around and dealt with it.

If you don't believe this is a problem send your assistance check back.

Also, don't blow it up so high just to expose our political system, cause you don't like it in the first place.

Deal with the problem, if you don't feel it's a danger to people, at least consider the cost and the shortage of medical resources.

They don't sign historic 2 trillion dollar relief packages for the flu, they obviously figured out it's not the flu, but an unknown threat.

Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/29/20 03:23 PM

Like them or not, we have the cast of politicians in place that we have in place.
I can't remember a time in my entire life that made governors more important than this one
In more casual times, they made the news for gerrymandering.

50 governors and Pence and Trump are running the effort to keep people from dying.
We need them to cooperate fully and all do a good job.
I did not vote for my current mayor, but he is doing a very good job of keeping the fear down and constructive efforts moving. I wish him the best at this time.. I eagerly listen to what he has to say.

Beyond the virus is the economy and the ongoing (or not) livelihoods of millions of people. Trump was right when he said that bad economies cause suicides.

I hope that they all do the best job possible.


Ps. Wife just returned from grocery store. She wore a mask and gloves. Police met her going in and out. She was required to use sanitizer before touching a cart and required to use it when leaving the store.
Comforting to know.

We have a rental unit where we live. Our renter is a Pediatrics MD and her family. She is going on 2 week shifts at the med center hospital where she works. I think that she has to remain there for the entire fortnight. That is strident and hopefully overkill for Harris County but comforting to know that the people in charge are all-in.

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/29/20 04:11 PM

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/0...pd-officer-to-die-from-covid-19-illness/

New York police are getting hit. This guy had asthma, but he was young. Can't quarantine everybody with a disease.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/29/20 10:08 PM

Joe Diffie Country singer dies of covid19. I wasn't familiar with him but R.I.P.
https://news.yahoo.com/country-singer-joe-diffie-61-211142802.html
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 12:05 PM

If you go to JHU chart and look in the lower right at the "Daily Increase" graph.....you will see that the number of new cases for the last 4 days is between 18,100 and 19,400 new cases.
Four days does not insure a trend, but it does appear (to me) to be the first 4 day flattening of new cases on the chart.

Mitigation appears (to me) to be taking hold. I hope..
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 12:37 PM

Martin: That seems like a piece of good news to me: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html (Click on US and then in the lower right -- Daily Increase). That seems like a new option, I hadn't seen that before.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 01:02 PM

Kevin

it looks like a possible firewall. Hopefully it holds. Even if it does not, at least the acceleration rate appears to have stuttered.

Many people have now been fearful and backing away (mitigating) from each other for about 2 weeks which is the upper length of the asymptomatic period for a carrier. One can hope that makes data collection at this time regarding the number of new cases reliable. There is a time lag to what we are seeing.

One other bit of potentially good news is that the FDA approved the use of the malaria drugs without clinical trials. If someone is laying in a bed, dying of pneumonia and only being kept alive by a ventilator ...that gives them another shot to take. If the malaria drug is effective, it could slow the death rate a lot.

Hopeful in Houston smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 02:19 PM

In New Jersey and New York It's not slowing down in fact it's getting worse, worse in the amount of people diagnosed. Alot of that is due to the mass testing, but every day were getting two thousand people Diagnosed.

We also have to factor in that many are not abiding by the rules. NJ police have broken up several corona parties, some of which were catered and had djs, them people should be put in jail. Only they are letting low level offenders out of jail to control this. A nice 1000 fine might stop it, instead of breaking it up.

It appears the experts and scientists are getting preference and Trump is listening to them, which is a good tbing.

I mean some people won't even admit they were wrong about the epidemic.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 02:40 PM

If you go to JHU and focus on the new cases graph and click on the various countries, the new cases appears to flattening or descending around the world.
I dont know what is happening in NYNJ but I have been watching MSNBC this morning and hysteria and polticizing of the disease seems over the top.

Numbers to keep in mind.

2017 - per the CDC - FLU SEASON estimates in the USA
45 million cases
810,000 hospitalizations
61,000 flu associated deaths

Corona Virus so far
144,000 cases
2600 deaths

And the occurrence of new cases appears to have decelerated.
I get the concern with transmission. COVID 19 spreads quickly. The death RATE appears slightly higher. I get mitigation.
I don't get the level of hysteria going on.
We should have been more hysterical in 2017, but I don't remember much being made of 61,000 estimated deaths.
And with mitigation, and IF there is a firewall at 20000 new cases a day....I dont see this getting anywhere near 61,000 deaths.
Yet, Fauci is predicting 100,000 or so they say..

I can't connect the dots.
Other than that the high level of transmission is making the cases hit at once, thereby maybe overwhelming the system in places like NY
The gov of Tx stated yesterday that there are 16000 beds set up for Covid 19 and 2 percent of them were in use.
Harris County with 4.6 million people records less than 500 cases.


Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 02:50 PM

Well I can only go by the updated local numbers. I wrote in this thread that we had 2900 cases on March 23, we now have over 13000, so it spiked 10,000 in a few days, I also reported NY had 22000 we now have 59000

It's possible that other areas are not doing as much testing, and they still have many positive but do know it yet.

They did note a slight decease in hospitalization due to corona, which may mean that the early diagnoses improves the outcome.

The one thing they fear is but when travel opens back up, carriers can shuffle it back in.

Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Well I can only go by the updated local numbers. I wrote in this thread that we had 2900 cases on March 23, we now have over 13000, so it spiked 10,000 in a few days, I also reported by had 22000 we now have 59000

It's possible that other areas are not doing as much testing, and they still have many positive e but do know it yet.

They did note a slight we cease in hospitalization due to xorona, which may mean that the early diagnoses improves the outcome.

The one thing they fear is but when travel.old s up, carriers do t e enable they be e it will shuffle it back in.



keep an eye on the new local cases per day going forward. That will tell you if the curve is flattening. A lot of concern is given to whether the curve flattens or ascends.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 03:02 PM

New cases are by the thousands, when last week it was by the hundreds.

It's not flattening get which is why Fauci is not having the Easter opening.

Trump wanted an enforced two week quarantine for ny and nj, which if u want to be thorough is not a bad idea, but they decided not to.

my guess is the new April 30 reopening will be pushed back again

Not that it's that important, but this can really hurt baseball and other sports. How do you maintain your skill level if you can't play games

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 05:28 PM

Here's an example. If you look at Hopkins numbers for my it will say 59000, Cuomo just updated and now it's 66000. Up 7 k from yesterday.

So tomorrows numbers or later today it will read 66 k. Then tomorrow he will give briefing with new numbers. He's ahead of the Hopkins numbers
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Here's an example. If you look at Hopkins numbers for my it will say 59000, Cuomo just updated and now it's 66000. Up 7 k from yesterday.

So tomorrows numbers or later today it will read 66 k. Then tomorrow he will give briefing with new numbers. He's ahead of the Hopkins numbers



If the death rate is 1.5 percent of the total number of cases, that means that 97,000 more CONFIRMED deaths will require (97000/.015) = 6.466 million additional CONFIRMED cases.
Right now, in the USA they are confirming about 20000 new cases a day. (over the last 4 days) If that rate remains flat, that is a lot of days to get to 6.466 million. Unless the new cases rates skyrockets notwithstanding mitigation.

I'm not a statistician. I'm just a guy trying to get his mind around the risk to an architect and his wife in Harris County Texas.
But I can't get things to make basic sense.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 06:12 PM

And Murphy just spoke for nj up 3500 from yesterday. He said social distancing has helped hospitals and supplies but the cases are coming in in droves. Most don't need help but enough do to require more demands. Amazingly we still don't have enough beds

We're testing more people. Detroit and nolo are getting hit hard in droves

Most of the wh experts are predicting mi!lions of cases and 100-200 kdeaths.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 06:19 PM

Here's a bit of good news, it appears it's like measles in that once you get it you are immune.

Maybe that's why so many want to be tested to feel they will be immune.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Here's a bit of good news, it appears it's like measles in that once you get it you are immune.

Maybe that's why so many want to be tested to feel they will be immune.


That is one of the unsubstantiated rumors about this virus. Reinfection in China.

Ordinarily a host is infected. Immune system produces antibodies and that host cannot be infected again by that same virus. The more hosts that cannot be infected,, the more the virus wanes.
There are stories about Wuhan that some hosts who tested positive, tested negative and now positive again. Scary.

In 1918, the Spanish Flu which I believe began in Kansas, mutated and came around again with disastrous infections. Also scary.

Hopefully the Wuhan thing is hysteria and the press reporting rumor as fact , like they often do.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 06:41 PM

Yeah the regular flu is an ever morphing virus that's why we need a different vaccine every year.

Hopefully we can develop immunity
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 08:08 PM

Actually nj experienced the single worst day of cases and deaths overnight 3500 cases over night

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020...announce-over-3k-new-positive-tests.html
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Actually nj experienced the single worst day of cases and deaths overnight 3500 cases over night

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020...announce-over-3k-new-positive-tests.html


This site seems to also post reliable stats.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Click on USA and then you can look at it by state.
The totals are at the bottom.

For today there are about 16,200 new cases in the USA.

5800 in NY
3250 in NJ

9250 out of 16200 new USA cases are NYNJ

And unfortunately, the day is far from over, so it looks like it will blow through 20000 and start the curve ascending again.
IMO...this virus has two theaters...NYNJ and the remainder of the USA.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/30/20 10:21 PM

Cuomo spoke today about people believing this is a New York problem and how wrong they are.

What remains to be seen is whether or not when other states catch up with testing that they start elevating.

Carriers can cause as much problems as people who have symptoms.

I don't believe the next big epicenter will get the same support.
Posted By: Roy Cooper

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/31/20 08:15 AM

Following this post which I started, and still being in isolation, and after watching the same film 30 times, I wanted to thank those who
are not safe at home. As I am in London, I guess the lyrics come from my thoughts and observations in London.

you can see the post in lyrics 3 forum

- The Dedicated Few -

http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthr...ew-in-this-time-of-need.html#Post1162593

God Bless to all...

Roy
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/31/20 12:58 PM

Can someone here tell what I am doing wrong when I look at this?

We are being told that deaths in the USA can go upwards from 100,000 to 200,000.
Last night on tv they said that the death rate amongst infected cases was 1.85%.
ASSUMING a final number of 150,000 deaths....

150,000 deaths divided by .0185 = a total infected population of 8.101 million cases in the USA.
Currently there are 164,610 infeccted cases per JHU.
That requires an increase of infected cases of 7.936 million over the next 60 days.
(if I understand correctly that the disease will be beaten or close to subdued by June 01,2020
That means that the average DAILY INCREASE in cases will be 132, 273 per day over the 60 days. That is Average.
Over the last five days, the daily increase has been 18.1k, 17.8k,19.8k, 19.4k, 20.9k.
So, my figures indicate a massive acceleration in new cases coming up.

With mitigation in place and data collection beginning to congeal, how do the numbers jump from a daily increase of appx 20,0000 to 132,000?
I'm sincerely asking anyone who may know. What have I assumed incorrectly?
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/31/20 01:24 PM

Martin: It could be that the current count of infected people is way, way under-counted. So if there 165K known cases, that number could already be 1.65 million. But, like you, the only numbers we have are the CDC and John Hopkins #'s, so we are running a bit blind here. We know that numerous folks who have symptoms are told to stay home if they don't have breathing issues. I don't think those folks are getting tested. Plus all the asymptomatic people. If 100K people are really going to die and the real death rate is 1%, that's 10 million infected!!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/31/20 01:35 PM

It's all dependent on how many people have the virus. The massive growth of positive tests means more will die.

It's flawed in many ways, one main way, is the disease is different for everybody, even the symptoms are different. It's akin to trying to predict how many people will A. Hear a song, and B. how many will like the song. C. How many will hate it.

It's worst case scenario, probably based on the explosion of positive tests.

I mean, a coin flip while mathematically a 50/50 proposition, still has huge fluctuations. You could flip a coin 10 times and it wouldn't be impossible for all ten to come up heads, even it's a 50/50 shot.

The next thousand people to get covid19 could all die, or none could.

Still a huge amount of randomness in any prediction.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/31/20 02:38 PM

Kevin

What you are saying makes sense. The number of infected asymptomatic people walking around out there must be 10's of thousands more than confirmed.

Anecdotally...

Houston/Harris County has a population of 4.6 million and only 5 confirmed deaths.
2 days ago, a doctor called and said that the DIY tests are available to my wife and I. The fact that I can go pick up a test indicates that they must be coming more and more available.
Neither my wife, nor I...personally....know or know of anyone who has tested positive.

One would think that would not be the case in a pandemic where the death toll could reach 100-200k.

Thanks for your opinion, It's makes sense.

sgned,

Old bewildered guy in Houston. .
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/31/20 03:04 PM



[img]https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pj1Oi-iA_e-PRqKp_y_bIZkU5EGYq18r[/img]
Posted By: Roy Cooper

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/31/20 03:08 PM



the link dosn't seem to work Martin.. it wants me to log in to a google drive account...

Roy
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/31/20 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Roy Cooper


the link dosn't seem to work Martin.. it wants me to log in to a google drive account...

Roy


Sorry Roy. I didnt realize that google required that anymore.
It s just a funny post. It is a Chick Filet advertisement spoof. A picture of a bat with a sign on it that says...."Eat More Chikin"


Try this one...
[img]https://www.instagram.com/p/B-aHdqmhZBv/[/img]


Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/31/20 06:04 PM

Ny 75000 up 9 k from yesterday

Nj 18600 up 2 k

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/31/20 10:52 PM

It seems Texas has spring breakers who wouldn't cooperate too. The Florida ones are just now expressing regret....

https://news.yahoo.com/28-texas-spring-breakers-just-205700744.html
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 03/31/20 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
It seems Texas has spring breakers who wouldn't cooperate too. The Florida ones are just now expressing regret....

https://news.yahoo.com/28-texas-spring-breakers-just-205700744.html



No doubt

Cabo was a bad choice for a couple of reasons.
Posted By: Pat Hardy

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/01/20 02:04 AM

Quote



Curious that you didn't cite the source for your Copy/Paste, Kevin.


https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213091481


Curious, indeed. Democratic Underground?


How very subversive of you , comrade. smirk



If those quotes were accurate, it wouldn't matter where they came from.

Are they accurate, or are they not?

That is the question that should be asked.
Posted By: R&M

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/01/20 09:59 AM

Concerts, major sporting events, and car shows have been terminated where I live. Including the annual Grandma's Marathon, which is one of Duluth's biggest attractions. It is better to err on the side of caution. But I have never seen anything like this and with past viruses.
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/01/20 10:45 AM

A 12 year old and a 13 year old just died with the virus, so the young can get it and die, not just the old. Maybe those invincible young people will take it more seriously now.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/01/20 12:38 PM

There was another spike in the rate of new cases in the USA yesterday.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/01/20 04:29 PM

Just on the news… a person coughed in a parking lot. Another man fired a threatening shot. They were both fined for reckless endangerment. Significance of the story - coughing is now equal to firing a gun in public. And just when I thought it couldn't get worse. Trigger happy idiot!

John smile
Posted By: Moosesong

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/02/20 05:48 AM

It is hard to nail down the exact numbers for a reasonable guess of what the ultimate death toll would be. The number of cases is highly unreliable, and depends on which area a person is in.

Some areas have drive thru testing, so any one who suspects they have it can be tested if they are willing to wait a few hours. in their car in line. where lots of people can get tests, the case count will rise rapidly, but ultimate death rate from those tests will be a low percentage.

in other areas people that are only very ill get tests. there the number of known cases might be less but the death rate would be higher. not because the virus is any more deadly there, but because the deaths would be divided by fewer cases.

Deaths are the only reliable counts, and they are doubling every week or less it seems. So the higher guestimate from cdc of 240,000 (up from 200,000 a few days ago) is very reachable. In fact it might only be 7 weeks away.

its not the numbers, its the progression of the numbers. 1 2 4 8 16. the average is only about 6.1, but the next number in the sequence is 32.

a non math way to measure it is we are 2 to 3 weeks behind Italy, but that might not be as reliable since they are in full lockdown, and parts of US were still having spring break, so we may pass them or catch up. if 240K were an over/under bet, I'm afraid I would have to bet over.

The only bright spot so far is that UK has developed an antibody test that can tell if a person has had the virus and survived. Not sure how soon it will be widely available, but that will help people know if they are safe to venture out again. Keeping fingers crossed.

Be Safe.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/07/20 02:31 PM

Time for a perspective moment...Last year 80,000 deaths in the USA was reported by the CDC from the flu. This year the USA death toll is at 10,980 so far. This is all starting to look like a political hoax. Thousands die of the flu every year. Ironic that so many people refused flu shots in the past – and are now desperate for a coronavirus vaccine. Go figure…

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/07/20 03:07 PM

Well the deaths from corona are being publicized because of the daily counts, so when somebody famous dies its a wake up call.

People are familiar with flu, doctors know when it rises and falls, how many will die, we have a vaccine, and have drugs like tamiflu to cut it in half.

For corona we have nothing. And no predictive pattern.

With trump touting the anti malaria drug, and possibly has stock in it, that would be the same worst political hoax of all time, if it turns out to be true.

But assuming nothing like that, for Anybody on either political team to start this hoax and how it has destroyed the health care system, the economy, that would be the personification of evil

It's way to late into it to be calling it a hoax any more. It's costing trillions of dollars and too people are dying. Young healthy ones too.

Last year's flu was an annomaly, one of the worst of all time. And when there's a vaccine, drugs to treat it and predictability, it's not going to cause the same panic.


Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/07/20 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
... This is all starting to look like a political hoax. …


I think "political hoax" is a bit on the incorrect side. I think "operational failure" is a better term to use. All pandemic strategic plans count on one thing. The ability to create a test for the current virus/bug and the ability to roll it out to help track/locate clusters and contain them. No one expected the CDC to have their first test fail so spectacularly. … and then the ramp up of industry manufacture/test/get results was another spectacular failure. Then there was also the inability to produce and distribute masks and other PPE. It was a perfect storm for a disaster.

Therefore the US government was driving blind. When this is over, folks will probably say, a) if we had proper testing and b) we had masks and mitigation items in the beginning maybe we could have had the high risk people be quarantined at home and the mostly healthy could have some level of economic activity with everyone wearing masks and such.

If you agree with the 2018 numbers then 80,000 died and 16 million got it, then the mortality rate is 0.5%! By the way, because of mutating/rotating flu virus strains, flu shots are only about 50% effective!

As of today, we still don't have the testing capability or the mask/ppe equipment to turn us loose again.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/07/20 05:26 PM

Careful Kevin. When I said the same thing, I was called a moron...so better to say Trump has dealt with this perfectly...because he knows better than any scientist, economist. doctor...in fact he is simply the best at absolutely everything

And this political hoax too is so much reality...in fact, when you look at what is going on around the world...you see EVERY country is experiencing the exact same political hoax. Absolutely uncanny, but hey, Trump has called it a hoax (in fairness he changed that tune..but this is meant to be satirical sooh) and his supporters believe that it's a hoax so it must be true, and the Deep State, Fake Media, The "Human Scum" and such are all out to ruin everybody's day.





Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/07/20 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Careful Kevin. When I said the same thing, I was called a moron...so better to say Trump has dealt with this perfectly...because he knows better than any scientist, economist. doctor...in fact he is simply the best at absolutely everything.


Ha, ha -- Notice that I didn't blame trump. In fact I don't blame trump for the outbreak of the coronavirus. I do have a lot to say on that subject, though -- but I will keep my thoughts to myself. I was chastised by niteshift ,rightfully so, for adding a political flavor to this thread once before.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/07/20 05:55 PM

No of course you can't blame Trump for the outbreak...anyone who does is out of touch with reality.....but we can definitely follow what he said and did about it and form a pretty concrete picture of those facts....and judge his leadership on that basis

But as I said in the post that got me called a moron. Lots of time later to look back. For now there are more important things to do

WRT to the mortality rate

There is a theorem used in statistics and economics called The Law of Large Numbers. It basically says that as the number of incidents measured increases, the measured value converges towards the average.

So right now, Johns Hopkins reports just under 1.4 million cases worldwide with a mortality rate of 79,000+....coming in at 5.6%

Now that does not mean that a single city, county or state will experience this...but with 330million people, the US will come closer to this number...AND it does say that this is extremely infectious and it has a significantly higher mortality rate than the flu. Note too that there are still folks going through it, and new cases are popping up...so the true number will not be known for awhile.

The ONLY way you can dispute these facts is if you discredit Johns Hopkins as fake, the perpetrator of a hoax, bad collector of stats, or bad at basic math. Pick one if you must

Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/07/20 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Time for a perspective moment...Last year 80,000 deaths in the USA was reported by the CDC from the flu. This year the USA death toll is at 10,980 so far. This is all starting to look like a political hoax. Thousands die of the flu every year. Ironic that so many people refused flu shots in the past – and are now desperate for a coronavirus vaccine. Go figure…

John smile


I understand your POV. Even though I dont think that the final toll in the USA will be anywhere near the 100-250K that they were projecting just a few days ago....I dont consider it a hoax because of the ease of transmission and the fact that it would saturate cruise ships and cause a number of deaths that seasonal flu would not ...has made it a real threat to me.. The death rate versus the seasonal flu seems much higher.

Though, in the last two weeks, just using basic algebra on the numbers....the projections looked outlandishly stretched. My personal theory? We were "high-balled."

The CDC pumped the numbers to scare people into mitigation.
The media and dim-ocrats did it to stir up ratings and Trump-hate which for them have become one in the same thing.
And then Trump did a rope-a-dope. Go along with the dems and media's inflated hyperbole and later claim to have saved the world from it. Coming to a theater near you soon.

People are dying and it is a disease that infected and killed a lot of people quickly so I take it seriously and personally believe that it could have killed 200k plus left unabated...but the Bullsht has been a factor.
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/07/20 09:50 PM

This virus is much more severe then seasonal flu. It has a known kill rate of over 5% and these figures are most probably under reported.

It is highly contagious and may have the ability to mutate and therefore avoid a vaccine.

It is not something to be taken lightly. As seen in Italy, it has decimated communities and has no fear or favour whether you are rich or poor.

This is not a time for politic's. It is a time for good hygiene, social distancing and a sensible medical approach to a very serious issue.

Stay safe folks. Stay home, practice social distancing and wash your hands regularly.

Write some songs until it pass's because it eventually will smile

cheer, niteshift
Posted By: Scott Campbell

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Time for a perspective moment...Last year 80,000 deaths in the USA was reported by the CDC from the flu. This year the USA death toll is at 10,980 so far. This is all starting to look like a political hoax. Thousands die of the flu every year. Ironic that so many people refused flu shots in the past – and are now desperate for a coronavirus vaccine. Go figure…

John smile


A difficult comparison to make, John, because you are comparing an annual number of flu deaths to the deaths from covid19 so far - but covid19 is still in exponential growth.

I hope the total number of deaths is lower than expected. But here is a different perspective:

On the average day, about 7400 people die in the US - from all causes (heart attacks, cancer, stroke, car accidents, suicide, shootings, you name it). 7400 people die each in this country each day.

Yesterday, in this country, 1906 people died from covid19 alone.

Political hoax? Hardly.

Scott
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Scott Campbell
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Time for a perspective moment...Last year 80,000 deaths in the USA was reported by the CDC from the flu. This year the USA death toll is at 10,980 so far. This is all starting to look like a political hoax. Thousands die of the flu every year. Ironic that so many people refused flu shots in the past – and are now desperate for a coronavirus vaccine. Go figure…

John smile


A difficult comparison to make, John, because you are comparing an annual number of flu deaths to the deaths from covid19 so far - but covid19 is still in exponential growth.

I hope the total number of deaths is lower than expected. But here is a different perspective:

On the average day, about 7400 people die in the US - from all causes (heart attacks, cancer, stroke, car accidents, suicide, shootings, you name it). 7400 people die each in this country each day.

Yesterday, in this country, 1906 people died from covid19 alone.

Political hoax? Hardly.

Scott



I don't believe that the cases are still in exponential growth. The new cases have hit a plateau over the last 3 or 4 days.
Correct me if I am wrong.
If they remain on the plateau for a while at the rate of 30k +/- cases a day and 2000 deaths, that will yield 60K deaths a month The USA is at 13k deaths now.
It is not unreasonable to assume that the new cases and deaths will decline as time progresses.
Supposedly, Hospital admissions and ICU admissions and deaths are all down.
Right now...I believe that they are projecting that new case decline to start on the 15th.

If any of these assumptions are incorrect...please correct me. Thanks
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 01:33 PM

Wuhan isn't a hoax but the media keeps getting caught promoting fraudulant stories, politicians use it to promote their pet projects( funding for the Kennedy Center?!), dire apocalyptic predictions keep failing to come true, all of which leads to well-earned skepticism.

Patients already critically ill who die are listed as dying from the virus when they died with it.

Local news has had a reporter stationed outside a major hospital for weeks. Look behind her and it's obvious all is quiet.

It's fast becoming a Doomsday Cult.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 01:37 PM

"Political hoax? Hardly" Political hoax, definitely.


No, the virus isn’t a hoax. It’s real. Although, I’m still thinking this could be genetically engineered by man. The hoax is how the media and political corruptors are manipulating this for less than noble reasons. Joe Biden sickens me with his political ads stating how he would have handled this pandemic differently. Yeah Joe, you’re the man….

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 02:07 PM

Couch, what about Trump saying it was no threat to America?

What about Trump having stock in the malaria drug, and te!ling people they should take it, not a doctor, just an investor.

Even if he doesn't have money interests, how does somebody with no medical experience say that, let alone the pousa.

"Take it if you want" what do you have to lose? your life??????

What do the people on the Safeway line now tell you? Are they wearing masks and gloves?

Stop reading Glenn beck, rush limbaugh, they are no better than cooper and maddow.

We know it's big money for both sides in the news, but facts are facts, trillions spent, hospitals over stuffed, many have died.

Personally I believe the hype of death rate was a move to ensure compliance of quarantine, I said that in this thread much earlier. The couldn't get kids off the beach or the basketball courts, seems it worked.

It could have also been over stated so that trump can then brag "well they said it would kill 100-200k, but we kept it down to this.look how great we did


Posted By: Scott Campbell

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide



I don't believe that the cases are still in exponential growth. The new cases have hit a plateau over the last 3 or 4 days.
Correct me if I am wrong.
If they remain on the plateau for a while at the rate of 30k +/- cases a day and 2000 deaths, that will yield 60K deaths a month The USA is at 13k deaths now.
It is not unreasonable to assume that the new cases and deaths will decline as time progresses.
Supposedly, Hospital admissions and ICU admissions and deaths are all down.
Right now...I believe that they are projecting that new case decline to start on the 15th.

If any of these assumptions are incorrect...please correct me. Thanks


You might be right. An uptick yesterday but cases do appear to be increasing about 30,000 a day. So maybe we've moved into a flat rate for awhile. Hopefully the rate will decrease soon.

Scott
Posted By: Scott Campbell

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
"Political hoax? Hardly" Political hoax, definitely.


No, the virus isn’t a hoax. It’s real. Although, I’m still thinking this could be genetically engineered by man. The hoax is how the media and political corruptors are manipulating this for less than noble reasons. Joe Biden sickens me with his political ads stating how he would have handled this pandemic differently. Yeah Joe, you’re the man….

John smile


We don't know how Joe would have done. We only know what this President has done.

Do I think the democrats are doing some political manipulation here? Of course I do. Do I think this president was asleep at the switch for two months? Yes.

Scott
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Couch, what about Trump saying it was no threat to America?

What about Trump having stock in the malaria drug, and te!ling people they should take it, not a doctor, just an investor.

Even if he doesn't have money interests, how does somebody with no medical experience say that, let alone the pousa.

"Take it if you want" what do you have to lose? your life??????

What do the people on the Safeway line now tell you? Are they wearing masks and gloves?

Stop reading Glenn beck, rush limbaugh, they are no better than cooper and maddow.

We know it's big money for both sides in the news, but facts are facts, trillions spent, hospitals over stuffed, many have died.

Personally I believe the hype of death rate was a move to ensure compliance of quarantine, I said that in this thread much earlier. The couldn't get kids off the beach or the basketball courts, seems it worked.

It could have also been over stated so that trump can then brag "well they said it would kill 100-200k, but we kept it down to this.look how great we did





All American presidents have a parade of people come at them announcing that life is about to end as we know it...unless that president does what that person says.
You can bet that was Vendman and Ukraine.

Trump was looking at a choice between shutting down the USA or taking a chance that a virus that had not arrived yet...had been massively overblown. Both choices had catastrophic consequences.
At the outset there is proof that Fauci minimized the concern and that the WHO distorted the concern at the behest of the Chinese truth ministry. Trump would have weighed their input at the time.

Trump placed a bet against the virus arriving with any magnitude and lost the bet.
Obama or Clinton likely would have not reacted any better. Polticians worry about "optics." Let's say that Trump shut the country down and avoided the virus almost altogether. People would have looked around and saw no sick people and Trump's detractors would have labelled Trump a paranoid schizophrenic who caused a recession for nothing. If Clinton was president, same thing.

Trump's biggest mistake was shooting his mouth off like he always does. Obama likely would have made the same choices but shown concern for the possible contagion.

When it was clear that the pandemic was actual in the USA, Trump made adjustments, stopped travel from the source and worst infected countries and marshalled his forces in coordination with the governors pretty well.
My guess is that the final death toll in the USA will be 25-50k. that is comparable to a typical flu season. Could have been much much worse.




Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 02:36 PM



Quote
We don't know how Joe would have done. Scott


I do, he'd be in a daze, like always. laugh

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 03:12 PM

Marty, if I bet your money, I better win right?

I don't blame trump for the oitbreqk, I think he has listened and did what had to be done, even if his I n fellow right wingers want the country up.

But you can spin it hundreds of ways, he has said some of the dumbest things during this thing that a janitor wouldn't make the mistake of saying.

He'll will probably still beat sleepy joe. Unless the stock in drug things comes to fruition.

Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Marty, if I bet your money, I better win right?

I don't blame trump for the oitbreqk, I think he has listened and did what had to be done, even if his I n fellow right wingers want the country up.

But you can spin it hundreds of ways, he has said some of the dumbest things during this thing that a janitor wouldn't make the mistake of saying.

He'll will probably still beat sleepy joe. Unless the stock in drug things comes to fruition.



I voted for him and if the only other choice is Biden...will do so again.
But early on in this thing, his big mouth has nailed the fact that he made the wrong choice....to a billboard.
So that is Trump's to own.

Now the Biden campaign can plaster the TV with Trump's wrong statements juxtaposed against funerals.
I don't know if he will win next time or not. The wild cards are the economy and how bad of an opponent Biden will be.

Gonna be interesting
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 04:33 PM

I've never listened to a single word of either Beck.or Limbaugh. Please provide the date and complete, unedited transcript of Trump saying the Wuhan Virus is no threat to America. He issued a travel ban on China in late January. DeBlasio was encouraging New Yorkers to go to the movies weeks after that, and his health commissioner was telling people to go to a Chinese parade. NYC is the US flashpoint for Wuhan.

Whether Trump owns stock in the malaria drug is irrelevant. He's an international businessman with a diversified portfolio. What matters, is whether it's effective, which it appears ro be.

Many base their point of view on what Trump does or says. This is irrelevant to my post above.

The media is pushing fraudulent stories. The apocalyptic predictions aren't coming true, meaning shutting down the economy is a harmful
waste. Wuhan is becoming a Doomsday Cult.

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 04:51 PM

He consistently downplayed it just look at his Twitter account

His telling Americans to take a malaria drug with no studies showing it does anything, and that having money interest in the drug he's telling Americans to take is irrelevant?

Ask the Safeway line ,I need to know what they think.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by couchgrouch
I've never listened to a single word of either Beck.or Limbaugh. Please provide the date and complete, unedited transcript of Trump saying the Wuhan Virus is no threat to America. He issued a travel ban on China in late January. DeBlasio was encouraging New Yorkers to go to the movies weeks after that, and his health commissioner was telling people to go to a Chinese parade. NYC is the US flashpoint for Wuhan.

Whether Trump owns stock in the malaria drug is irrelevant. He's an international businessman with a diversified portfolio. What matters, is whether it's effective, which it appears ro be.

Many base their point of view on what Trump does or says. This is irrelevant to my post above.

The media is pushing fraudulent stories. The apocalyptic predictions aren't coming true, meaning shutting down the economy is a harmful
waste. Wuhan is becoming a Doomsday Cult.



Finding onset examples of Trump dismissing the virus threat is easy. Go on youtube and search it.
If you don't want to do that, then wait for the upcoming political ads.

The media is constantly twisting what Trump says casting it in the worst light that they can. At the outset of the outbreak of the disease in this country, he gave them some stuff that they wont even have to distort.
Like I said above, I will be voting for Trump again...but there are days when I wish he would stfu.

Posted By: Mark Kaufman

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 06:26 PM

“It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.”

I'm grateful to live in a state that shut down quickly in response to its first known cases. As a result, we really flattened the hell out of the potential growth curve. New York waited a loong, long time to finally shut down. I don't blame them—imagine the balls it takes to champion that losing mission. The Trump administration also resisted such an awful prospect...until he finally understood you cannot wish or strongarm your way out of contagion. The way I see it, those who don't lock down while others are locking down are just peeing in the swimming pool, and peeing sections don't work in swimming pools.

We underreacted, and still are.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 07:31 PM

Mark, your quote doesn't say much or mean much. The virus may or may not vanish ot it may be seasonal. But I asked for an unedited, contextual quote, with a date. I'll settle for an unedited, contextual transcript. You gave me a soundbite, with no date. The others have nothing.

I'm still waiting for the place in the Ukraine transcript where Trump quid pro quo'd the guy to investigate Hunter Biden (an obvious con man). It doesn't exist.


Trump organized a Wuhan Virus task force in late January.
There is plenty of anecdotal evidence the malaria meds work, including a Dem congresswoman and her physician who were happy to credit Trump.

Trump's financial stake only becomes relevant IF it's a substantial stake AND if the drug is inneffective. Otherwise, it's just more people obsessed with Trump minutiae.

Mark, your prediction isn't coming true.

Chris Cuomo/CNN just got caught ( yet again) deceptively editing a Trump quote.

It's a Doomsday Cult.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 07:46 PM

An hour and a half long, but well worth a listen:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IID...la2Yq5NR4E6fQTAImAW&index=2&t=0s

Best, John smile
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 08:39 PM

Here you go Robert...enjoy.
As I said, I plan to vote for Trump but there are times that I wish he would give it a rest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWupoHcoLT4
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 08:53 PM

Cg. It doesn't matter if he has even a few grand invested in it, he has alterior motives for telling Americans to take the drug when he has nono clue if it works, the leading doctors in the world say there's no proof it does anythung.

Bad enough if he doesn't have stake, unforgivable if he does

And u keep saying you don't support trump, u refuse to once admit he has said or done something so stupid it makes us all look smart

Just say it, he can do no wrong by you, that is the only way to describe it
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Cg. It doesn't matter if he has even a few grand invested in it, he has alterior motives for telling Americans to take the drug when he has nono clue if it works, the leading doctors in the world say there's no proof it does anythung.

Bad enough if he doesn't have stake, unforgivable if he does

And u keep saying you don't support trump, u refuse to once admit he has said or done something so stupid it makes us all look smart

Just say it, he can do no wrong by you, that is the only way to describe it


From what I've read, a reasonable person can conclude from anecdotal evidence and limited studies that the drug does have some beneficial effect against this virus.
Gov Cuomo approved it for doctor discretion in NY and Gov Abbot approved it in Texas.
One can reasonably infer that Cuomo saw something to it or he would have stayed within the tribal directive which is to bash Trump as reckless for suggesting it.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 09:41 PM

I know nobody's going to watch this. Too much of the Media's propaganda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IID...la2Yq5NR4E6fQTAImAW&index=2&t=0s


[Linked Image]
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 09:58 PM

Marty, now your doing the same thing. Trump is not a doctor, nor researcher nor scientist, If doctors thought it was reasonable to try it, they would say yes try it. It's not a harmless drug it can cause arrhythmias and death

Now, if I was on deaths door, maybe I'd try it too, and since my President thinks it's reasonable I would feel better about trying it.

I know hospitalw are trying it, mainly because trump promoted it.

If he has stock interest in the drug it puts the whole use in question.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 10:02 PM

The drug still has to be administered by a doctor. Trump is not personally handing it out.
My own hunch is that it works.
I read that doctors are hoarding it for themselves.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
I know nobody's going to watch this. Too much of the Media's propaganda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IID...la2Yq5NR4E6fQTAImAW&index=2&t=0s


[Linked Image]



I dunno John. I started listening but the dude on the left conducting the interview doesnt look the guy that is going to give you the straight dope.
That is based on nothing but 2 minutes of watching but I'm going with my gut this time. wink
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 10:07 PM

Lol, it works, who has it saved?
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 10:19 PM

Quote
I dunno John. I started listening but the dude on the left conducting the interview doesnt look the guy that is going to give you the straight dope.
That is based on nothing but 2 minutes of watching but I'm going with my gut this time. wink


Yes, it's more important how a person looks, than what they're saying.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 10:54 PM

We have it under control.Couchgrouch....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr6lnPVc4tg
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 11:20 PM

The videos provided were short, edited soundbites. I want the context. CNN was just caught editing what Trump said to give it a negative slant, with the context, it was fine. He banned travel to China in January. Travel to Europe followed shortly. The CV task force was set up weeks before DeBlasio 's idiot advice. I don't need to repeat that again.

FD, you've offered no evidence about Trump's motives, or your ability to mind read.

Trump has a big mouth and like all such people do, he sticks his foot in it from time to time. But if what he says was that bad, the media wouldn't need to selectively edit it. They could quote it verbatim.

Furthermore, Trump speaks and tweets without rehearsal or focus groups, something unthinkable for Hillary or Obama. This is refreshing for many people. Even so, he's nowhere near the senile gaffe engine Biden is. You don't have to edit what Biden says. He's a boob who can't recall how many grandkids he has.

I'm not a Trump supporter. I despise the media. Sometimes those things overlap.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 11:30 PM

I don't need to offer proof of his motives. He could have the most honest belief in the drug but he's making money on it, that's an established motive.

I think everybody should get siriuss radio, because that's where The best news is, did I mention I have stock in Sirius... I now use my power and persuasion as a public servant, to further endorse sirirus....

The videos are edited, but he said we have it under control, every time he was asked about it, from when there was 5 cases even till now.

They never had it under control and still dont. Like him or not he's been wrong so many times.


Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Quote
I dunno John. I started listening but the dude on the left conducting the interview doesnt look the guy that is going to give you the straight dope.
That is based on nothing but 2 minutes of watching but I'm going with my gut this time. wink


Yes, it's more important how a person looks, than what they're saying.


Not to me. But I think that the corona virus is pretty much as presented. Came from China. Unexpected and underestimated. Probably overreacted to. Highly transmissive and left many corpses.
If this guy is selling a 1.5 hour long conspiracy theory that says otherwise..not interested.

Proverb...if the deal takes a long time to explain, it's probably a bad deal.

Sorry
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by couchgrouch
The videos provided were short, edited soundbites. I want the context. CNN was just caught editing what Trump said to give it a negative slant, with the context, it was fine. He banned travel to China in January. Travel to Europe followed shortly. The CV task force was set up weeks before DeBlasio 's idiot advice. I don't need to repeat that again.

FD, you've offered no evidence about Trump's motives, or your ability to mind read.

Trump has a big mouth and like all such people do, he sticks his foot in it from time to time. But if what he says was that bad, the media wouldn't need to selectively edit it. They could quote it verbatim.

Furthermore, Trump speaks and tweets without rehearsal or focus groups, something unthinkable for Hillary or Obama. This is refreshing for many people. Even so, he's nowhere near the senile gaffe engine Biden is. You don't have to edit what Biden says. He's a boob who can't recall how many grandkids he has.

I'm not a Trump supporter. I despise the media. Sometimes those things overlap.


I'm not going to do all of your homework for you. If interested go back and watch the convention where he talked about their new hoax. That will give you context and display the biggest single public relations mistake that he made in regard to the virus. Being wrong and obnoxiously reckless about it.

Keep in mind. I vote for Trump because of his overall policies and judges. And will again in November, but at a personal level the guy is a petty, obnoxious, vindictive, bloviating azzho. Sometimes effective leaders are...I suppose.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Quote
I dunno John. I started listening but the dude on the left conducting the interview doesnt look the guy that is going to give you the straight dope.
That is based on nothing but 2 minutes of watching but I'm going with my gut this time. wink


Yes, it's more important how a person looks, than what they're saying.


Not to me. But I think that the corona virus is pretty much as presented. Came from China. Unexpected and underestimated. Highly transmissive and left many corpses.
If this guy is selling a conspiracy theory that says otherwise..not interested.

Sorry


Yes, we shouldn't be open to new ideas. We should be good little boys & girls, and do what we're told.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Quote
I dunno John. I started listening but the dude on the left conducting the interview doesnt look the guy that is going to give you the straight dope.
That is based on nothing but 2 minutes of watching but I'm going with my gut this time. wink


Yes, it's more important how a person looks, than what they're saying.


Not to me. But I think that the corona virus is pretty much as presented. Came from China. Unexpected and underestimated. Highly transmissive and left many corpses.
If this guy is selling a conspiracy theory that says otherwise..not interested.

Sorry


Yes, we shouldn't be open to new ideas. We should be good little boys & girls, and do what we're told.


If that is the way that you want to take it John, I can't stop you.
As for your truth-sayer, I will wait until his proclamations are so undeniable that they become mainstream...and watch the documentary on Netflix. wink I admit to being lazy
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/08/20 11:58 PM

I would like a precis here John. To sit though one and a half hours this is not time I will get back. Now if the precis is interesting, I might deem this worth my while


Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
I know nobody's going to watch this. Too much of the Media's propaganda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IID...la2Yq5NR4E6fQTAImAW&index=2&t=0s


[Linked Image]
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 12:22 AM

Watch the first 10 minutes John, that should be enough to interest you or not.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 12:38 AM

The problem with this, and everything else, is there are too many conspiracy theories. Everybody's got one.

And the real tragedy is nobody seems to be able to get news without questioning the source.

It's become a national and global pastime to immediately dismiss anybody who thinks differently that u, or reports news we don't want to hear.

Franklly? I'm fahking sick of it. The term fake news is probably the most repeated and known phrase ever used in history.

I'll tell you one thing, being divided is entertaining to most, but at some point it's going to blow out of control. Imagine being in a real doomsday situation, turning on the radio or tv, and having to decide if you want to believe what you are expected to do.

Civil war is also a real possibility.

The internet as made every fahkingg body an expert on everything, while everybody else is a moron

Sad.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 02:35 AM

Ok John. I went for the first several minutes, then skipped ahead

So Dr Kaufman says every scientist who has looked at this screwed up...that COVID is a naturally occurring exosome

And that the people dying all had pre existing conditions...which was their COD, it was not COVID19

BUT BUT BUT

Tell that to all the families of patients who drowned in the fluid in their lungs that they could not expel ....tell that to all the doctors asking for ventilators to help their patients breathe. Tell that to John Prine's widow. No it was the cancer Mrs Prine...but we cannot explain why his body is not emaciated like all other cancer victims...and we will have to get back to you on why we put him on a ventilator...

The Virus has been genetically analysed and it is definitely a virus AND AND AND perfectly healthy people are also dying

AND AND AND try to find out anything about Dr Kaufman via Google and all you get is two recent Youtube videos...one that seems to be hosted by him and one with an interviewer who can in no way be called mainstream

Now, that does not automatically mean he's wrong. But what do other scientists say? If he wants recognition for his work, why is he going for a Youtube audience? Why is he not sending his research out to be independently verified by his colleagues? What is a better use of his time? Why hasn't Trump seized on this? What a coup. He would absolutely love to loudly claim the "Chinese Virus" was a hoax by the Chinese to ruin the world's economy....and that he knew all along they were evil.

I have a very intelligent friend who is far too well Googled. He believes there is a cure for cancer.... but it is being suppressed. Researchers are being paid off by Big Pharma and Big Cancer because the cure (he can't tell me what it is) is all natural and cheap. When I asked him "do you think any researcher is going to want to hide such a momentous achievement by being paid off, or would they want recognition for finding a cure for this awful disease? Do they want to take a chance on being called the greatest mass murderer in history by witholding something like this cure for money?", he simply doubled down.

Real scientists do not go on youtube to win over adherents because we do not matter a wit in this arena. Only fellow scientists matter. ESPECIALLY WHEN TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE

I could be wrong, he could be right...but I expect the scientists who actually worked on the genetic sequencing of this virus have the right answer. I also expect the doctors and nurses who have to watch their patients drown in their own fluids are closer to what is happening on the ground.



Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 03:24 AM

FD ...wrt "fake news"

Trump is definitely right in that there's lots of fake news, but he has unfortunately latched onto the wrong targets...being anyone who disagrees with him.

I believe that polarization in the USA is driven largely by your mainstream media.

As a Canadian, I have the luxury of all kinds of news sources on my TV, via the internet etc. During the impeachment proceedings of a few months back, I actually compared the reporting from FOX, CNN, and CNBC, and I swear you would think they were reporting on entirely different things. It was amazing how each side slanted towards their story...mostly by disparaging the other side.

Another thing I see more and more of is "news as entertainment" and "opinion as news" . That is why the Rush Limbaughs and that screamer conspiracy wackjob Alex Jones can exist. They can gain an audience with their outrageous claims which they then sell to...either directly or indirectly through advertising. Nothing more or less than what Lord beaverbrook claimed "this business is all about"

If you do not know that reference, Lord Beaverbrook, a Canadian media baron in the early 20th century, moved to England where he becamee quite influential. He said of a newspaper that "news simply fills the space between advertising". That model drives all websites with content. So the most outlandish things are written...simply to gain eyeballs. It's like the National Enquirer on steroids. He should be singling out all those kinds of sites that peddle lies, conspiracies etc...who hide behind "free speech" to peddle their BS...and whose lies can be extremely damaging.

The internet wants eyeballs and puts out "click bait" ....the more outrageous the better to capture an audience. That also adds to the fake news confusion out there

Coming full circle to this pandemic...web sites want eyeballs to sell to and they care little for the truth, only an audience
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 05:05 AM

"Ok John. I went for the first several minutes, then skipped ahead" - John Voorpostel

The problem of skimming is so much is lost. Kind of why people use sound-bites to explain things. It wraps things up quickly in a neat package. Yes, Dr. Kaufman stated that the so called COVID 19 looks identical under a microscope to the exosome (rejuvenating packets of stuff outside of cells). This was quickly labeled the coronavirus by "the powers that be". And that was that – the Powers-to-Be have spoken. Rather than look for the real cause of what’s going on, now there’s a sound-bite to explain it to the scared, little people. The point is, there could be something else going here. But there was an abrupt halt in looking for other causes.

Another misleading observation – everyone that dies of respiratory failure in hospitals now is diagnosed with COVID 19. Thus, raising the death toll inaccurately. Other causes of respiratory failure are COPD, pneumonia, cystic fibrosis, heart problems, ALS, smoking, drug & alcohol use, one-and-on… People die of respiratory failure all the time in hospitals. But today, you’ll get added to the coronavirus victims.

There’s so much more in this interview that's missed by using the skimming technique…

John
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 12:08 PM

I think there is a lot of mind control at work here, for what purpose I don't know, world government maybe. I'm not saying all governments are in on it, or even if governments are behind it, but someone is. Some people have been pushing for world government for years, for what purpose?, power, control, money, etc. You name it and you could be right. No denying there is a virus happening, man made or natural, who knows, but through fear we are being mass hypnotized, controlled, maybe experimenting for something bigger to come. No doubt doing what we are doing is slowing down the spread of the virus, just as it would slow down the spread of any flu, so keep doing it now to save lives. Many of us don't take the flu vaccine each year so a lot of the vaccine that these companies have made ahead of time never sells, so much profit goes down the drain. If they come up with a vaccine right now for this virus or for future viruses related to this COVID-19.you can be sure it will sell out every year. It might be as simple as profit but I think there are bigger things than that happening. only time will tell.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 12:23 PM

For anyone interested...

This link goes to a chart that I think is reliable. The nice thing about this chart is that you can click on any state and see what is projected for the crest and decay of the virus in that state..
Some of the graphs have variables that can be clicked on displaying different kinds of information.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/new-york
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Everett Adams
I think there is a lot of mind control at work here, for what purpose I don't know, world government maybe. I'm not saying all governments are in on it, or even if governments are behind it, but someone is. Some people have been pushing for world government for years, for what purpose?, power, control, money, etc. You name it and you could be right. No denying there is a virus happening, man made or natural, who knows, but through fear we are being mass hypnotized, controlled, maybe experimenting for something bigger to come. No doubt doing what we are doing is slowing down the spread of the virus, just as it would slow down the spread of any flu, so keep doing it now to save lives. Many of us don't take the flu vaccine each year so a lot of the vaccine that these companies have made ahead of time never sells, so much profit goes down the drain. If they come up with a vaccine right now for this virus or for future viruses related to this COVID-19.you can be sure it will sell out every year. It might be as simple as profit but I think there are bigger things than that happening. only time will tell.


Everett...imho....

IF...?
WW1 (1914-1918) , then the Spanish Flu, then the Great Depression, then the rise of Stalin, then the rise of Hitler and the 3rd Reich then WW2 (1945).....
was not the end times....then there are no end times. There is just the day that a massive asteroid smacks the earth and disturbs it's orbit. Until then, it's the same old crap, different day. Globalization has been on a continuum since, at least, the Phoenicians.

The biggest single disruption to globalization and the centralization of power in my lifetime is Donald Trump. He is part of a nationalist backlash around the world. I assume that you are a supporter?

Try to relax about it.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 02:11 PM

Thank you for the better precis John. That would (I hope) have changed my attitude towards watching this in depth.

An error in analysis and the "misleading observations" are distinct possibilities. It would not be the first time. And I probably would not have responded in quite the way I did wrt fluid in the lungs as the primary COD vs the chronic underlying conditions. I would have been more thoughtful (I hope)

The rest of my response, why a youtube audience and why not mainstream medicine still troubles me

If I do free up some time, I will look at this more closely. may even come back to talk about it

Cheers


Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
"Ok John. I went for the first several minutes, then skipped ahead" - John Voorpostel

The problem of skimming is so much is lost. Kind of why people use sound-bites to explain things. It wraps things up quickly in a neat package. Yes, Dr. Kaufman stated that the so called COVID 19 looks identical under a microscope to the exosome (rejuvenating packets of stuff outside of cells). This was quickly labeled the coronavirus by "the powers that be". And that was that – the Powers-to-Be have spoken. Rather than look for the real cause of what’s going on, now there’s a sound-bite to explain it to the scared, little people. The point is, there could be something else going here. But there was an abrupt halt in looking for other causes.

Another misleading observation – everyone that dies of respiratory failure in hospitals now is diagnosed with COVID 19. Thus, raising the death toll inaccurately. Other causes of respiratory failure are COPD, pneumonia, cystic fibrosis, heart problems, ALS, smoking, drug & alcohol use, one-and-on… People die of respiratory failure all the time in hospitals. But today, you’ll get added to the coronavirus victims.

There’s so much more in this interview that's missed by using the skimming technique…

John


Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 02:14 PM

Well if any pathologist would sign his name to an autopsy that says somebody died from covid 19, when they died from respiratory failure, they would be in danger of losing their license and possible jail time

Having a virus is not incidental your not supposed to have covid 19 in your body. And you wouldn't go to the hospital if you aren't already sick. So what caused you to be sick. Well if you had covid 19, that would be a trigger.

My mother had copd. The last two years she had two really bad flares, first time she made it home, the second time she didnt.

She caught pneumonia in the hospital, and that with the already weak lungs from copd, it was an over burden.

She didn't die from copd, per se, and she didn't die from the pneumonia per se, she died of complications of both.

Most illness kill people because of complications more than the disease itself Cancer, stroke, aids, but the complications they create kill most of the time

So, John Prine went to hospital because he had flu like symptoms, got tested for covid, and had it,and complications of the virus in his already weakened lungs killed him.

Hey, what if I punch somebody lightly in the nose, but that person has hemophillia, and they bleed to death. While that punch caused death in HIM, because of his condition, but I'm guessing I'd be in big trouble.

Cause of death wouldn't be a punch to the nose, but complications of.

Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel

The rest of my response, why a youtube audience and why not mainstream medicine still troubles me

Cheers


They're working on getting this info out in the mainstream John. Though there are road blocks around every corner.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 03:07 PM

The same could be said for musicians, why are they on YouTube but not the radio or doing concerts in big arenas, because the competition is overwhelming and YouTube is the only place you can start.

And just because Rachel Maddow has a show on a major network, it doesn't mean her opinion is any more valid than somebody on youtube.

In fact most people in the media are not there for their content but their ability to entertain and hold an audience.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 03:26 PM

I cannot agree with you John because that is not how things work in medicine. This kind of research is a small world with identifiable players. All Dr Kaufman has to do is contact them with his research and hypothesis and ask them to reproduce his work to validate it.

I cannot imagine why he feels he has to first go to people who have absolutely no power to change what is happening out there...and don't say that this will have people asking questions of their medical providers and politicians...because that, at this time, is an entirely unproductive waste of time.

And FD...no pathologist signing their name to such a report would be fined or jailed unless they were acting in bad faith. A wise man once said you cannot attribute malice if it can be explained by an honest mistake. And sorry about your mom...it is not a nice way to pass. Myu own father in law went the same way last summer, and he was bed ridden for some two three years before that.

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 03:33 PM

Lying to the public, saying somebody died of covid 19 complications, but died of something else, would cost them their license, and be criminal

Do you know how many murderers would like a pathologist to tell a jury their victims died of something else?

Or else they're just so incompetent, they'd be out anyway
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 04:25 PM

Yes...agreed...because like I said, they would be acting in bad faith....intentionally lying would definitely be subject to professional discipline punishable by whatever their governing body deems fit. The legal ramifications are another nut altogether.... not sure if it would result in criminal or civil procedures...or any at all really.

BUT IMO this is a blind alley in our discussion
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 05:07 PM

Well I'm addessing the people saying that people are dying but not cause of covid 19, and that Hopkins and other medical information is being falsely attributed to covid.

Nobody is saying that covid itself is killing all these people, but its complications

When it's covid related, it means covid was involved in it.doctors are smart they know things.

No covid, these people wouldn't have died right now, maybe sometime down the road, which is why people were trying to stop it from hitting the vulnerable.
Posted By: Mark Kaufman

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by couchgrouch


Mark, your prediction isn't coming true.



We're in worse shape than when I made the prediction, but if you want to throw an It's Just The Flu party, have at it.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 06:12 PM

This is what I've been trying to articulate. Good timing
https://news.yahoo.com/fauci-dismis...he-coronavirus-death-toll-132059427.html

Like each of its predecessors, Fox’s latest pandemic talking point — that the coronavirus death toll could be exaggerated because it includes individuals who had other health issues in addition to COVID-19 — doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

“We’ve made it very clear, every time I’ve been up here, about the comorbidities,” Dr. Deborah Birx, the U.S. coronavirus response coordinator, said Wednesday during the White House coronavirus task force press briefing. “This has been known from the beginning. So those individuals will have an underlying condition, but that underlying condition did not cause their acute death when it’s related to a COVID infection.”

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease expert, also made a point to weigh in, cautioning against such “conspiracy theories.”

“They are nothing but distractions,” Fauci said. “Let somebody write a book about it later on. But not now.”
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 06:43 PM

"Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease expert, also made a point to weigh in, cautioning against such “conspiracy theories.” - Fde

I'm starting to wonder if there is anyone in any field that isn't the top expert in their field. I reckon that's just added to give them more credibility. Don't argue with him, he's the top expert. Let me bow down to him - bow wow. laugh No other opinions count.

John
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 06:49 PM

CBS caught falsifying hospital footage for second time in two weeks. Why the need to falsify reports? Because reality isn't as bad as the media wishes it was.

It's a religious cult.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by couchgrouch
CBS caught falsifying hospital footage for second time in two weeks. Why the need to falsify reports? Because reality isn't as bad as the media wishes it was.

It's a religious cult.


If it's not sensational news, the audience will change the station. Why do you thing people read the National Enquirer? The audience wants to be entertained.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 07:09 PM

John, even being the top doctor on your street makes him more qualified than us.I

Couchgrouch, can you provide the docs showing CBS did this, I don't care about cbs, but I have not heard this.

And also, what proof do you have that reality isn't as bad as the media says it is, anything you provide will be from the media remember.

If u like conspiracy, make it meaningful.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 07:25 PM

Yes it is the exact point I was making above about fake news John

It is all about monetizing eyeballs hence "news as entertainment" and "opinion as news"

The corrosive aspect is that:

Sensationalism and invoking outrage has become the norm. The louder the better to cut through all the noise

No one can trust any one source of news and must check and double check to hunt down the truth

Opinions are everywhere and often clash

Mainstream news has totally divided the USA into two main camps who have lost the ability to talk to eachother in any civil manner
...that goes for all the major news networks....
....and I will not blame Trump for that. It was there before he was. He recognized it, harnessed it, and rode its coat tails into power.

And not being able to talk to eachother to resolve differences and come to compromises is perhaps the worst result. People don't care about ideas, good or bad...only about who came up with it. "Dimocrats" and "Repugnicans" both de humanize the other with labels thrown freely and easily so as to discredit the messenger...far easier than discussing the merits.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 08:04 PM

It's dim-ocrats, not dimocrats.
The reason being is the that you don't want to run the risk of it being dismissed as merely a typo. That would dilute the pejorative.

I agreed with most of your post John.

We part in two places. One is "compromise". In the 80''s Reagan traded for amnesty for appx 3 million illegal aliens.. Now there are 11-40 million illegals. That long ago left no room for further compromise. In the 90's we would compromise over how to appropriate funds. Now we are 23 trillion in debt and "compromising" over how to spend money that China (and Russia) lend us from profits made by destroying and usurping a big piece of our manufacturing base. That has been compromised away too.. Compromise seems to actually mean..."doing things MY way."

#2 Dim-ocrat was clearly aimed at me. Concern with a silly label and something so petty is thin-skinned and not a realistic view of the world we live in. I suggest taking such things in stride and trying to laugh at them. DE-HUMANIZE is hyperbolic.

Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 08:24 PM

Not meant for you at all Martin...just stuff I have seen on line...and part of the division labeling I was talking about.

This post was not personal at all, not directed at one person in particular...just an observation of the currect state of the union
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/09/20 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Not meant for you at all Martin...just stuff I have seen on line...and part of the division labeling I was talking about.

This post was not personal at all, not directed at one person in particular...just an observation of the currect state of the union



Thanks John.

I'm conservative but fell away from the republicans back during W. I have a perverse enjoyment of the snarky pejoratives that I see on the internet. Dim-ocrat tickles me and it's counterpart Repugnant-con tickles me just as much.

I'm on the same page with most of what you write. Your posts have clarity.
Though conservative, I spend most of my time listening to liberal outlets and the contrast between typical coverage of the virus on FOX versus MSNBC makes one wonder if they are talking about the same things...and makes one wonder...what in the world that the truth must be?

Kindest regards,

Martin
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 12:36 AM

Personally a bit more over the map, but overall probably more liberal than conservative, especially when it comes to personal choices. Fiscally I am probably more conservative, but along the lines of Edmund Burke if that means anything. I don't mind taxation and government spending...but do it responsibly and fairly and within the confines of peace, public safety & order, and prosperity for all citizens...while remaining open to other programs....where I am very utilitarian in that I value a practical plan based on its merits over one based on some grand ideal.

I've been ridiculed for this Martin, but I actually find Al Jazeera a good source of info. Not the end all be all...but good nonetheless. They tend to report the facts without a lot of colour...while their opinion pieces are probably more "left of center". Definitely not my primary source of news, but one I do look at regularly if I am trying to get a handle on a news story. They also have interesting documentaries and feature pieces.

Have a look if you are interested https://www.aljazeera.com/

And a funny anecdote, which if you were a Torontonian, you would know has a kernel of truth in it.....

Toronto has three major newspapers. Years ago an editor explained the difference between them in terms of how they might have reported the sinking of the Titanic

Our Globe and Mail (Canada's business paper) would have a headline saying "Cargo Arrives Late From Europe"

Our Toronto Star (a "broadsheet) would have one saying "Thousands Watch As Sailor Saves Drowning Puppy"

Our Toronto Sun (a tabloid) would have one saying "Crew Demands Sex Before Survivors Lowered In Lifeboats"

Cheers and stay safe



Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 12:56 AM

The term is libtards for liberals, and the idea that liberalism is a mental disease.. People feel so clever when they say these recycled lines

I wouldn't want to be on either side, too much hatred on the left and right.

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 12:58 AM

The death toll may be even higher than reported...

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-death-toll-us-likely-worse-numbers-142700231.html
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Personally a bit more over the map, but overall probably more liberal than conservative, especially when it comes to personal choices. Fiscally I am probably more conservative, but along the lines of Edmund Burke if that means anything. I don't mind taxation and government spending...but do it responsibly and fairly and within the confines of peace, public safety & order, and prosperity for all citizens...while remaining open to other programs....where I am very utilitarian in that I value a practical plan based on its merits over one based on some grand ideal.

I've been ridiculed for this Martin, but I actually find Al Jazeera a good source of info. Not the end all be all...but good nonetheless. They tend to report the facts without a lot of colour...while their opinion pieces are probably more "left of center". Definitely not my primary source of news, but one I do look at regularly if I am trying to get a handle on a news story. They also have interesting documentaries and feature pieces.

Have a look if you are interested https://www.aljazeera.com/

And a funny anecdote, which if you were a Torontonian, you would know has a kernel of truth in it.....

Toronto has three major newspapers. Years ago an editor explained the difference between them in terms of how they might have reported the sinking of the Titanic

Our Globe and Mail (Canada's business paper) would have a headline saying "Cargo Arrives Late From Europe"

Our Toronto Star (a "broadsheet) would have one saying "Thousands Watch As Sailor Saves Drowning Puppy"

Our Toronto Sun (a tabloid) would have one saying "Crew Demands Sex Before Survivors Lowered In Lifeboats"

Cheers and stay safe






LOL wink Cheers
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
The term is libtards for liberals, and the idea that liberalism is a mental disease.. People feel so clever when they say these recycled lines

I wouldn't want to be on either side, too much hatred on the left and right.



Well Fd...
You just continue on being Mr Perfect as you always have. wink
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 01:25 AM

Perfect no...but doesn't the term perfect suggest that either side is not?

And kick the fahking Astros out of baseball, they cheated which is why altuve
was on Chapman's fastball.

Kick Houston the hell out!
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by Everett Adams
I think there is a lot of mind control at work here, for what purpose I don't know, world government maybe. I'm not saying all governments are in on it, or even if governments are behind it, but someone is. Some people have been pushing for world government for years, for what purpose?, power, control, money, etc. You name it and you could be right. No denying there is a virus happening, man made or natural, who knows, but through fear we are being mass hypnotized, controlled, maybe experimenting for something bigger to come. No doubt doing what we are doing is slowing down the spread of the virus, just as it would slow down the spread of any flu, so keep doing it now to save lives. Many of us don't take the flu vaccine each year so a lot of the vaccine that these companies have made ahead of time never sells, so much profit goes down the drain. If they come up with a vaccine right now for this virus or for future viruses related to this COVID-19.you can be sure it will sell out every year. It might be as simple as profit but I think there are bigger things than that happening. only time will tell.


Everett...imho....

IF...?
WW1 (1914-1918) , then the Spanish Flu, then the Great Depression, then the rise of Stalin, then the rise of Hitler and the 3rd Reich then WW2 (1945).....
was not the end times....then there are no end times. There is just the day that a massive asteroid smacks the earth and disturbs it's orbit. Until then, it's the same old crap, different day. Globalization has been on a continuum since, at least, the Phoenicians.

The biggest single disruption to globalization and the centralization of power in my lifetime is Donald Trump. He is part of a nationalist backlash around the world. I assume that you are a supporter?

Try to relax about it.


Where in my statement did I say it was the end of the world? I can not vote for Trump, I'm Canadian. I did mention world government, the Pope was calling for a meeting this year with world leaders to discuss that very subject. This virus may cancel that meeting.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Everett Adams
Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by Everett Adams
I think there is a lot of mind control at work here, for what purpose I don't know, world government maybe. I'm not saying all governments are in on it, or even if governments are behind it, but someone is. Some people have been pushing for world government for years, for what purpose?, power, control, money, etc. You name it and you could be right. No denying there is a virus happening, man made or natural, who knows, but through fear we are being mass hypnotized, controlled, maybe experimenting for something bigger to come. No doubt doing what we are doing is slowing down the spread of the virus, just as it would slow down the spread of any flu, so keep doing it now to save lives. Many of us don't take the flu vaccine each year so a lot of the vaccine that these companies have made ahead of time never sells, so much profit goes down the drain. If they come up with a vaccine right now for this virus or for future viruses related to this COVID-19.you can be sure it will sell out every year. It might be as simple as profit but I think there are bigger things than that happening. only time will tell.


Everett...imho....

IF...?
WW1 (1914-1918) , then the Spanish Flu, then the Great Depression, then the rise of Stalin, then the rise of Hitler and the 3rd Reich then WW2 (1945).....
was not the end times....then there are no end times. There is just the day that a massive asteroid smacks the earth and disturbs it's orbit. Until then, it's the same old crap, different day. Globalization has been on a continuum since, at least, the Phoenicians.

The biggest single disruption to globalization and the centralization of power in my lifetime is Donald Trump. He is part of a nationalist backlash around the world. I assume that you are a supporter?

Try to relax about it.


Where in my statement did I say it was the end of the world? I can not vote for Trump, I'm Canadian. I did mention world government, the Pope was calling for a meeting this year with world leaders to discuss that very subject. This virus may cancel that meeting.



My apologies Everett. Whenever I see someone talking about the world government with trepidation...my mind connects some dots....

(one) world governent
(one) world govt leader
anti-Christ
Jesus Christ
end times
Armaggeddon
1000 years of peace.

Those are not my beliefs but they often come in a package with a (one) world government lead-off..
I apologize for assuming that to be you.







Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 02:04 PM

John LS..I watched the video further to give this guy the benefit of the doubt and perhaps learn something ...but stopped when he supported a theory that viruses could not actually spread from person to person, and the Spanish Flu was caused by a nascent, growing electrical grid.

Sorry man...I just could not go on....

He is now officially a quack in my books

Oh and the Youtube channel itself does not claim to be a serious news site either..that was an easy google of the name itself.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
.....I watched the video further to give this guy the benefit of the doubt and perhaps learn something ...but stopped when he supported a theory that viruses could not actually spread from person to person, and the Spanish Flu was caused by a nascent, growing electrical grid. ...


Ha, ha -- that is great! Thank you from saving me from watching a quackified conspiracy nutcase video.

Mr. Schick: is this true? Are you really promoting a video that says virus are not spread by human to human contact?
But I have ask, is there any evidence that the Spanish flu wasn't caused by the electrical grids showing up.


Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 03:30 PM

Mr. Schick: is this true? Are you really promoting a video that says virus are not spread by human to human contact?- Kevin

No Kevin, the video stated that it may not be a virus at all. Dr. Kaufman stated that the alleged COVID 19 looks identical under a microscope to the exosome (rejuvenating packets of stuff outside of cells). Which, btw, was automatically labeled a virus without further study.

John
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 03:43 PM

Yes John, I grant you he asserts that...along with what i said...

FYI, here is the channel's Youtube playlist....scan it and see who it is that is giving the good doctor his forum

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLg8_Df7lKXNR9Yv1HEnzCFGXI-JfgIV2q

And for his discussion about the spanish flu, cut right to the chase beginning at about 11:30 mark


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IID...EnzCFGXI-JfgIV2q&index=28&t=727s

Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 03:48 PM

So, I reckon the new norm is to close the USA down every flu season for 3-4 months from now on. Odd, we’re being told social distancing is working, even though everyone still goes to grocery stores and department stores like Walmart and Target that have grocery departments. Add Lowes, Home Depot, and restaurant pick-ups to the list. Not to mention clusters upon clusters of the unemployed congregated in lines to sign-up for benefits. I guess this alleged virus is just waiting to pounce on the first person to step into a shoe store. What a sham… Even Sunday drives are off limits now – ridiculous. I’m through posting on this never-ending, never changing thread. It’s mind-numbing.

John
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 04:22 PM

Now why would you reach that conclusion John? If you believe at least partially in mainstream medicine, then you understand the normal flu is something we can deal with.

This is a new virus, a NOVEL virus as they call it, because our bodyies have no immunity against it.

Until we get a vaccine, or develop "herd immunity"...when most of the population has immunity...which btw can happen if the virus runs its natural course and in the process "culls the herd" ...then we will have to take measures to physically distance ourselves from it.

Quarantines have always been our first line of defence and when we devloped vaccines, we were able to fight it. Wonder what the good doctor would say about polio vaccines, smallpox vaccines, etc....are these useless?

Now I don't for a minute believe you are "pushing this video" for anything other than look what others are saying. I took you at your face value word when you expressed that.

So I listened and deem the guy a quack. Full stop.

You don't have to agree...and you don't have to leave the discussion
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 04:31 PM

I feel John's pain. It's toigh, no doubt about it. I haven't been able to get a haircut, won't be easter without brother and niece and nephew. No sports which for some means nothing, to others it's a calmng, normalizing thing, and I haven't been able to bet games. Sportsbookss suffering, bookies taking up knitting... People can't go out to eat or to the mall. Lines in grocery and nothing there anyway.

And John is absolutely right, grocery stores, subways, buses, parks, beaches should have been the first thing they looked at.

But, we can't look to conspiracy theories for a justification to not do this. The science says this is what we have to do. Sucks.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 05:00 PM

A danger worse than Covid 19!!!

Mika Brzezinski said on Friday's Morning Joe that she would no longer take Estroven because Donald Trump owns stock in the company...
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
So, I reckon the new norm is to close the USA down every flu season for 3-4 months from now on. Odd, we’re being told social distancing is working, even though everyone still goes to grocery stores and department stores like Walmart and Target that have grocery departments. Add Lowes, Home Depot, and restaurant pick-ups to the list. Not to mention clusters upon clusters of the unemployed congregated in lines to sign-up for benefits. I guess this alleged virus is just waiting to pounce on the first person to step into a shoe store. What a sham… Even Sunday drives are off limits now – ridiculous. I’m through posting on this never-ending, never changing thread. It’s mind-numbing.

John


John Schick

The virus transmits easily and the death toll is significant. Anyone who says that this is just another flu season is to be ignored. The Cruise Ships and Italy prove what the virus can do.
If the mitigation steps dont happen by government mandate...they will happen anyway as the paranoia deepens.

I suggest looking at it this way...
In 1989 Bush #1 was president. That was 31 years ago. We've lived through some societal events since then.
If you were alive and survived the 31 years from 1914 to 1945...you would have lived through WW1, Depression, Stalin, Hitler, 3rd Reich, WW2.

Life presents problems without real good answers to them every so often. If we get through this corona virus without a catastrophic economic retraction...it's just an inconvenience that is a lot less disruptive than many that have come before it.

Ps...Don't grant that youtuber paranoic access to your mind.


Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 05:06 PM

All Italy proves is that cheap foreign labor isn't worth it, socialized medicine doesn't work and that Italy has a large, enfeebled elderly population. It had exceedingly large deaths
among the elderly during flu season before the Wuhan Virus.

It's a Doomsday Cult.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by couchgrouch
All Italy proves is that cheap foreign labor isn't worth it, socialized medicine doesn't work and that Italy has a large, enfeebled elderly population. It had exceedingly large deaths
among the elderly during flu season before the Wuhan Virus.

It's a Doomsday Cult.


Robert

Believe whatever you want.
The dead body count in NY alone is enough for me to be fearful of the disease and exercise caution.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 06:15 PM

This has to be one of your most inappropriate statements Couch, for at least two important reasons

1) Italy just lost its 100 doctor to COVId...a large number of them were actually foreigners

and 2

in a number of rankings, Italy has a top notch medical system, FAR above that of the US.... which ranks in the middle high 30s by WHO and World health. In fact, by most measures, countries with socialized or partly socialized medical system rank significantly higher than that of the US. No question the USA has a well developed system, but access is not cheap.



Originally Posted by couchgrouch
All Italy proves is that cheap foreign labor isn't worth it, socialized medicine doesn't work and that Italy has a large, enfeebled elderly population. It had exceedingly large deaths
among the elderly during flu season before the Wuhan Virus.

It's a Doomsday Cult.
Posted By: Mark Kaufman

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 06:20 PM

Here's an interesting and informative contrast, a timeframe-based listing of actions taken by two nations in response to Covid 19, and the reasons why they took different actions. The outcomes are in the daily news.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...est-people-for-coronavirus-idUSKBN2153BW
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 06:39 PM

Finally, some REAL progress...after scoring Lady Gaga in the war against Covid 19, WHO is now in negotiations with RuPaul. Tweets may be tweeted and videos may be released.

The above makes me think that Covid 19 is lacking something, somewhere. Sure, it's got the media lying left and right, politicians claiming infants died of Covid that didn't and crazy celeb conspiracy theories.

But if the Covid Cult wants to remain on the scene, it needs a
dour, pasty faced teen mascot like Greta or David Hogg.

I don't know much about modern youth culture. Can anyone make a suggestion? Chris Cuomo's too old, although he's got the martyr angle covered, having chipped a tooth suffering through the "rigors" of Covid.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 06:44 PM

If it's a doomsday cult, the entire world is in on it, and the head, CEO is trump.

Cause trump believes this is a very real and serious pandemic. That's why he sent you a check.

But couch, comedy is not your thing.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 06:53 PM

He y I think I spoke of this earlier in the thread. Why wasn't he able to get somebody to diagnose her wth covid 19

https://www.newser.com/story/289394...;utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_top
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 06:54 PM

John, your post didn't address what I said at all. Italy has a large Chinese population because of cheap foreign labor. I don't know about its "ranking" but it IS socilaized medicine, it is having severe problems and it does have a large elderly population who suffered comparably during recent flu seasons.

Italy also is blessed with idiot officials who told their citizenry to hug a Chinese person so as not to appear "racist". This was not a practical response.



My car is a lemon. It overheats whenever I drive uphill.

It can't be a lemon. It has a high ranking.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 06:59 PM

Trump didn't send out checks because of the virus, he sent them out to compensate for the extreme REACTION to the virus, a reaction many are saying was unwarranted. I, on the other hand, felt strongly that the Kennedy Center needed those millions. I felt so much safer knowing the KC was well funded. Thanks Nancy.

If such a reaction was warranted, the media wouldn't be constantly caught lying about it.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 07:04 PM

So he's an idiot for telling them to hug people, but since there's no pandemic why is he an idiot?

In Italy kids live with parents, sometimes forever. They go out to work and out and about, and bring it Home.

I'm willing to believe your insights if you have documentation of it.

And our problem here is much worse half a million cases, Italy had hundred thousand or so.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 07:13 PM

So couchgrouch, when trump tells us we will suffer greatly and there will be much death, and he's never seen anything like this pandemic, he's lying?

No matter what trump does or says he's covered by you.

You are as big a trump supporter as anybody I know of.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/10/20 07:39 PM

Ah Couch, you did not mention the Chinese in your first post as being the foreigners....but I will simply let that slide and focus in on your socialized medical system comment....except to say it is a human reaction to look at foreigners as a problem in this pandemic. In China right now all foreigners are also under scrutiny, so you are as human as anyone

You are right in that Italy has a lot of elderly people in the bunch that died. It is acyually pretty well in line with the rest of the world where the elderly and vulnerable (due to underlying conditions) are the hardest hit....and yup, a lot of elderly people do die of the flu every year.....but what is your point? That the elderly and vulnerable would die of the common flu instead, so what? That the number is wrong because they also die of the flu?? The hard point is that all those who died actually presented at intake with COVID and a large percentage of elderly people did notsurvive

To socialized medical care. You are asserting that there is a correlation between socialized medicine and COVID's impact on a population...so it follows that the USA should be fine because it does NOT have socialized medical system.

By the numbers, the UK, Italy are definitely hit hard as are France. All three have essentially socialized medical care systems. That covers off your assertion nicely. Italy just topped 18k deaths after a number of weeks, followed by Spain (largely socialized) France (where all doctors and facilities are paid for by the state) and the UK (socialized) so yeah, it must be...

But then the next place hardest hit is NYC...and the US death toll is second in the world...just behind Italy.....how do you explain the USA with privatized care and its number of deaths over fewer weeks? There should not be any issue...or far less an issue in the USA if your hypothesis is right.

Maybe you can explain why this is seemingly at odds with what you are saying?

EDIT
The US has now experienced the largest number of deaths attributed to COVID 19 virus. It is eerie to see the Law of Large Numbers at work. It says about 4% of those diagnosed with the virus will die...a disproportionate number will be elderly and those with chronic conditions...but it will hit all age groups. This can now be said with close to certainty as our "sample size" is so large

Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/11/20 03:01 PM

Did you see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4P...VOQo8eS76Ezx6KyusdQ2WpvMdEqIpClGRoiEcOlg
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/12/20 02:59 PM

One of my high school classmates passed from corona, he was a year ahead of me, only 52
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/12/20 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
One of my high school classmates passed from corona, he was a year ahead of me, only 52


Ouch. Sorry to hear. RIP
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/12/20 04:16 PM

Yeah I was talking to somebody else and they said btw, remember...

I wouldn't have known otherwise but he was a good "kid" then.

I just had a strange thought. Can you imagine the torture somebody with ocd who is always washing their hands are going through?

They could be bleaching their hands every half hour. And I wonder how many people will be diagnosed with ocd during and after all this.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/12/20 04:22 PM

Sorry to hear that FD. I have doctors in my family (married to one as well) ....their view is that as soon as people you know start passing away, then you know it is spreading from within your community and it is no longer an "import"

So stay safe, stay protected...for your sake and for the sake of others.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/12/20 04:35 PM

I'm hearing little by little of different people I've known. Thankfully nobody very close yet fingers crossed. But it does but home more when you know somebody. I've heard of 5 people who have died.

Unfortunately I'm in the worst place to be, aside from NYC itself.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/13/20 02:29 PM

This is all we need, ever hear the expression, "big as a New York City rat". Well if they start attacking humans for food....ughh

https://news.yahoo.com/starving-angry-cannibalistic-americas-rats-083044613.html
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/13/20 03:18 PM

I'd say they will make a movie about this, but it has already been done...Willard & Ben...so I expect Willard II may come to a streaming service near you wink


On another note, the "this is not a virus, this is caused by the growing 5G Network" conspiracy theory is taking hold. In England and The Netherlands 5G network towers are being vandalized. If you don't believe it, (the conspiracy theorists say) you are simply "sheeple" ....

My question now is "how many anti vaccers" will be standing in line for a COVID19 vaccine when it appears?? Right now they can still rail against vaccines...but when a vaccine becomes widely available and their alternative is having no defence against the virus other than their own immune systems, will they actually stand by their beliefs and tempt fate???

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/13/20 04:22 PM

The problem with vaccines is they sometimes give you the disease! People are afraid of getting the vaccine and getting sick when they wouldn't have without it. And even if it does protect, if the virus mutates, the vaccine we make will only work for it now. By the time it's ready the virus will have changed. With the flu they predict the mutations based on history, we have none for corona virus.

I think antibodies from people who had it already will be the best option.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/13/20 05:21 PM

A vaccine ALWAYS gives you the disease...except the virus is killed or weakened so it becomes a mild case and your body can build immunity without the accompanying full blown disease.

A vaccine also often has discomfort and can present mild symptoms of what it is fighting. In rare cases it does not take, and people get it anyway. But large scale studies do not support your theory that the vaccine itself can cause a full blown incidence of what it is meant to combat.

Back to anti vaxers...I expect they would never want to travel because of the various innoculations you need ...yellow fever, hepatitis, ...in fact you actually need proof of vaccinations in some cases to travel

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/13/20 05:42 PM

But some folks feel why should I get sick at all, I don't even want half a flu so I won't take it.

For example the elderly, they might do better in quarantine and washing their hands and not getting it, as opposed to taking the shot and getting a milder form of it. Some dont even like getting the common cold.

Some people are germaphobes even before this.

As I said I feel for people with ocd. I wonder how Howie Mandel is making out
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/13/20 08:40 PM

Oh yes...there will always be bozos who decide that the outrageous explanation is the truth...or who make excuses for their bad behaviour.

Thankfully the larger segment is smarter.
Posted By: E Swartz

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 12:11 AM

Regulations on vaccine developments are tightly controlled and for good reason. Developing the vaccine is one thing, making consistent is another. In the early 50's the long awaited Polio vaccine was approved for use with much success initially, but then a "bad" batch reached the public where many deaths ensued. Once the source of the bad vaccine was confirmed, thorough federal regulations over the development and mfr of the vaccine corrected the problem and we're Polio free today.

There may always be some remote risks with any vaccine, but given the consequences as a senior citizen, I'd stand in line for a vaccine against Covid 19. Just as I realize I can still in a freak car accident be better off without my safety belt, I'll continue to wear them knowing the odds are in my favor of surviving a bad car accident.

Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 10:38 AM

I had a smallpox vaccination when I was young so I could work a summer job with the railway. If that was just a taste of smallpox, I would not want to get smallpox. It was not nice. A girl in my school who was going into nursing had the same needle for smallpox and she nearly died. They said the germ was not weakened enough and gave her a case of smallpox. I am one that don't like taking vaccines, not that I'm scared of needles but I don't like what they put in it to preserve it, Mercury. Your body can't get rid of Mercury so it builds up and over a lifetime, who knows what it will bring on.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 01:42 PM

Everett, you are quoting a misconception about mercury in vaccines. Simply Google "is there mercury in vaccines", and you will see ....but look at several sites, and make sure they are "good" web sites. There is so much misinformation out there.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 01:53 PM

Well, there has been controversy over vaccines for a long time. Im Just giving a reason why some don't get it.

But I think most would take a corona vaccine because of the scare.

Vaccines stop epidemics for sure, polio is nearly non existent.

The key will be if it mutates.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 02:18 PM

All I have is hunches on vaccines.
Like a lot of things, my hunch is that the results are not completely in on vaccines and other information may come forward as technology advances. Some of it may be bad.
These covid projection models that never made any sense to me prove again that there is a lot of art to science. And sometimes "science" misses.

However, I am personally convinced that uncountable numbers of people did not die premature deaths or suffer terrible afflictions because of vaccines.

Read the warning label, but the choice may be taking the drug or something much worse.

This opinion is worth what you paid.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 04:01 PM

Well, I said I wouldn't join in this any longer - I lied. Had to post this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86VJlhw0DQQ&feature=youtu.be

John
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 04:02 PM

Cuomo doing his briefing addressing the trump tweets. Trump is flexing saying he has total control of when economy opens, Cuomo says he doesnt.

It's actually childish in both sides.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Cuomo doing his briefing addressing the trump tweets. Trump is flexing saying he has total control of when economy opens, Cuomo says he doesnt.

It's actually childish in both sides.


It is not a childish argument.
Re-starting the economy is a massive and scary undertaking. If it fails, all of our lives are going down the drain with it. One master plan needs to be devised and executed in a coordinated and cooperative fashion.
Cuomo and Trump are both trying to stake a position. Both positions have merit.

Most of what you see is the media creating, fanning and exploiting a divide for their ratings and personal agendas..
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 04:36 PM

No the issue is very serious, arguing " I have the power" is childish
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
No the issue is very serious, arguing " I have the power" is childish


Cuomo stated that he and some governors were going to devise a restart plan.
Trump very arguably stated that he as president is the one with that power. That is a very arguable position given that the Fed govt has clearly stated constitutional authority over interstate commerce.

What you are responding to is all the crap in the media that is framing it as unfounded and childish...in order to fan flames and drive ratings.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 05:18 PM

Tell the Democrat Governors that “Mutiny On The Bounty” was one of my all time favorite movies. A good old fashioned mutiny every now and then is an exciting and invigorating thing to watch, especially when the mutineers need so much from the Captain. Too easy!
10:57 AM · Apr 14, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

From his phone, nothing else to do= childish with people dying
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 06:14 PM

Before I respond John L....what is your opinion of this Dr Shiva Ayyadurai and what he is saying?

Have you done any research into who he is, what he claims to have done, and what his possible motivation for this might be?
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Well, I said I wouldn't join in this any longer - I lied. Had to post this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86VJlhw0DQQ&feature=youtu.be

John


John

Have you considered that you might have an inner craving that searches for conspiracies to uncover?
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Well, I said I wouldn't join in this any longer - I lied. Had to post this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86VJlhw0DQQ&feature=youtu.be

John


John

Have you considered that you might have an inner craving that searches for conspiracies to uncover?


Better than playing the ostrich and burying my head in sand. Cowardly Lion: I do believe in spooks, I do believe in spooks. I do, I do, I do, I do believe in spooks,

John
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 10:26 PM

So John...you believe this guy. OK...free country and all

I don't. From what I can see he is promoting himself because he wants people to write him in as a 2020 senate candidate from Massachussets.

He is attacking Fauci as "deep state" and the entire pandemic as a ploy by big pharma to vaccinate the world for the profit it will generate. He also claims to have invented email at age 14 while in high school and that he has a cure for pancreatic cancer. He also is part of his own company's science advisory board...the point of an advisory board is to have outsiders there to advise you...so wtf is that all about??

So much is being written about the massive amount of disinformation that is being spewed on social media. It has to stop because people are doing stupid things like vandalising 5g cell towers as being the cause of this pandemic. Just a current twist on your last best friend who promoted the idiotic idea that the Spanish Flu was caused by a growing electrical grid
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 10:34 PM

"So much is being written about the massive amount of disinformation that is being spewed on social media" -John W

Like CNN - And the good little sheep are buying it.

John smile
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
So John...you believe this guy. OK...free country and all

I don't. From what I can see he is promoting himself because he wants people to write him in as a 2020 senate candidate from Massachussets.





Right off the the top. Agreed.

The people who say that they have the conspiracy all figured out down to the details, but are not privy to the insider information...never have it right..
To the extent that they actually believe what they are saying correlates to whatever extent that they are actually crazy....or simply lying.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 11:29 PM

Yup...take a sentence and re direct the thrust of my post. And by all means, don't debate the issue, support your position, or tell us why you believe...just call people names.

....which is pretty rich .....calling people who trust in medical experts sheep while promoting fringe websites and fringe conspiracy theorists.

Just to be clear OK...

The earth IS round, not flat. Men DID land on the moon, it did not take place in some obscure warehouse, 9\11 was NOT perpetrated by the Americans, Lots of kids DID die in Sandy Hook, Jews do NOT control the world or drink the blood of children, FEMA is NOT building concentration camps, the FDA is NOT suppressing a natural cure for cancer on behalf of Big Pharma, Fluoride does NOT contain industrial waste NOR is it a communist plot to weaken America, ......I could go on....
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Yup...take a sentence and re direct the thrust of my post. And by all means, don't debate the issue, support your position, or tell us why you believe...just call people names.

....which is pretty rich .....calling people who trust in medical experts sheep while promoting fringe websites and fringe conspiracy theorists.

Just to be clear OK...

The earth IS round, not flat. Men DID land on the moon, it did not take place in some obscure warehouse, 9\11 was NOT perpetrated by the Americans, Lots of kids DID die in Sandy Hook, Jews do NOT control the world or drink the blood of children, FEMA is NOT building concentration camps, the FDA is NOT suppressing a natural cure for cancer on behalf of Big Pharma, Fluoride does NOT contain industrial waste NOR is it a communist plot to weaken America, ......I could go on....




You did not mention the 100 mpg carburetor or the cannibis extract that not only cures pancreatic cancer but all forms of cancer.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 11:44 PM

But I don't understand what the conspiracies are suppose to do for us?

Is it suddenly gonna make everybody start gathering again, because these guys are so smart.

Even if they were 100% right, it wont change anything.

And I don't know who in their right mind would ignore all the evidence and science we have, most of those people aren't sick and won't believe it until somebody they know dies from it.

Even those who have the most faith look both ways before they cross the street.

The pastor who ignored the warnings died in Virginia.

Just stay home and do what you can to decrease your odds. Why is it so important to try to debunk this?
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/14/20 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio


The pastor who ignored the warnings died in Virginia.




Fact.

If someone wants to believe that a pit bull is a pony...I suppose that is fine..until they try to ride it.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 12:12 AM

Quote
You did not mention the 100 mpg carburetor


That is because that one is a real feel good story Martin. After Big Oil paid the inventor off with millions to suppress it, they got burned when fuel injection was invented wink

Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Quote
You did not mention the 100 mpg carburetor


That is because that one is a real feel good story Martin. After Big Oil paid the inventor off with millions to suppress it, they got burned when fuel injection was invented wink



LOL
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 02:43 AM

John L...please double check your sources of information because they simply defy what smart, dedicated professionals are saying.

This guy says a shot of Vitamin C is all we need. Ask yourself some hard questions about these kinds of assertions, where they are published, and who is making the stament and why.

I originally posted a what I thought was a clever conspiracy theory of my pown, but realize that this is not the way to counter conspiracy theories. So I took it down

I totally respect your musical talent and business savy but I simply cannot see why you would support the things said in your links




Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 10:30 AM

It seems polio is making a comeback in India.
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 10:55 AM

It seems polio is making a comeback in India.
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Well, I said I wouldn't join in this any longer - I lied. Had to post this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86VJlhw0DQQ&feature=youtu.be

John

Thanks for that John. It sort of confirms some of my suspicions of what is going on behind the scenes. There is more to this than what meets the eye. Like waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 04:00 PM

The headline to that video cracks me up, he exposes all democrats, nothing about trump. This video is bulll shyitt

He is speaking of how the fda only approves drugs that big money can be made on, and won't approve vitamins and alternatives.

This has been going on for years, many claim people are suppressing cancer cures, cause they aren't high cost.

Yes, based on history I've read the immune system over reacts to the virus, and the bodys attempt to heal you, ends up killing you sometimes.

Does Fauci have a way to stop this? Do hospitals? If they did they wouldn't have so many dead people to take up for. They have experimental treatments to stop this immune attack, but nothing that is considered standard treatment.

That is why they need vaccines and ways of preventing it.

Tell you what, let this doctor be in charge at ny langone howpital in New york, and let him cure the people who come in. If he fails, the next video will be calling him a quack.

Prevention is always the best cure... An ounce of prevention .

Btw, it was Trumps idea to open the country on easter, it was fauci and others who told him not a good idea, so how is it this guy's says trump is getting bad advice?

Without knowing the source of the video, I can surmise it is a right wing video.

Hate take media on both sides...It's so easy to make somebody look foolish standing on the sidelines.

I don't known if fauci is great or not, but he doesn't have a cute or a known treatment...hey maybe intravenous vitamin c works, but you can't grab at straws in the middle of it.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Everett Adams
It seems polio is making a comeback in India.
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Well, I said I wouldn't join in this any longer - I lied. Had to post this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86VJlhw0DQQ&feature=youtu.be

John

Thanks for that John. It sort of confirms some of my suspicions of what is going on behind the scenes. There is more to this than what meets the eye. Like waiting for the other shoe to drop.


Yes, and so amazing how easy people can be conned and controlled Everett.

Best, John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 04:05 PM

Ironic comment John...
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 04:09 PM

Yup, REPUBLICAN Senate hopeful. Con apparently is a two way street.

https://www.straight.com/news/repub...or-firing-of-us-pandemic-control-czar-dr
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 05:29 PM

Fd...to let this guy be in charge of the NY public health system would be a travesty...letting him kill people to prove he is a quack is unlikely your true postion and I expect more borne from frustration then a serious suggestion.

Better to post links to appropriate information as a contribution.

Then if John wants to take a chance on using shots of Vitamin C to cure himself if God forbid he contracts the virus instead of placing himself in the hands of real experts, then at least we gave him access to what we believe to be true.

But as we both have discovered...the more likely reason for Shiva Ayyadurai's diatribe against Fauci and the current system is to focus a spotlight on him. Did you find the website where he is soliciting write in votes to get on the ballot?
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 05:39 PM

John v, as a songwriter you should be familiar with sarcasm, he would never do anything he wasn't told to do.

I believe the immune system is a big part of the disease,but do we know what the hell were doing with it?
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 07:45 PM

"Then if John wants to take a chance on using shots of Vitamin C to cure himself if God forbid he contracts the virus instead of placing himself in the hands of real experts, then at least we gave him access to what we believe to be true" - John V

I don't know John, they seem to be dropping like flies with your experts in hospitals.

John
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 08:00 PM

I'd agree about the immune system. As we get older our immune system tails off. This may explain the high kill rate for those who are 70+.

Nothing wrong with vitamin C. It has been known to help with regular flu. It also does no harm even in high doses.

The most important thing at this point is social isolation and regular hand washing.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 09:22 PM

This is what Harvard Medical School has to say about Vitamin C and COVID as of April 9 2020

Some critically ill patients with COVID-19 have been treated with high doses of intravenous (IV) vitamin C in the hope that it will hasten recovery. However, there is no clear or convincing scientific evidence that it works for COVID-19 infections, and it is not a standard part of treatment for this new infection. A study is underway in China to determine if this treatment is useful for patients with severe COVID-19; results are expected in the fall.

(EDIT--it seems there are other trials underway, but there is no conclusive evidence yet that it works for the coronavirus)

The idea that high-dose IV vitamin C might help in overwhelming infections is not new. A 2017 study found that high-dose IV vitamin C treatment (along with thiamine and corticosteroids) appeared to prevent deaths among people with sepsis, a form of overwhelming infection causing dangerously low blood pressure and organ failure. Another study published last year assessed the effect of high-dose vitamin C infusions among patients with severe infections who had sepsis and acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), in which the lungs fill with fluid. While the study's main measures of improvement did not improve within the first four days of vitamin C therapy, there was a lower death rate at 28 days among treated patients. Though neither of these studies looked at vitamin C use in patients with COVID-19, the vitamin therapy was specifically given for sepsis and ARDS, and these are the most common conditions leading to intensive care unit admission, ventilator support, or death among those with severe COVID-19 infections.

Regarding prevention, there is no evidence that taking vitamin C will help prevent infection with the coronavirus that causes COVID-19. While standard doses of vitamin C are generally harmless, high doses can cause a number of side effects, including nausea, cramps, and an increased risk of kidney stones.


So wrt to this claim, I think it is fair to say it is a possibility Vitamin C in high doses might alleviate symptoms..but the jury is still out. So I definitely walk back some of what I said earlier
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 09:58 PM

Vitamin c has stood the test of time. It's not a miracle drug, but knowing some hospitals are using it, I would ask for it, the good thing about natural treatments is they usually have few side effects.

So yeah, give me an iv with vitamin c and zinc, but let's not blame the medcal profession for wanting a vaccine and testing.

Conspiracy won't save anybody right now.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 10:11 PM

Nothing wrong with taking vitamin C John. Mega doses of C are senseless, since it’s a water-soluble vitamin. You’ll pee out what your body doesn’t use. And if people think they're going to build their immune system up overnight using vitamin C, they're way off base. I've been taking mega vitamins for many years. But proper diet, restful sleep, and exercise is just as important. And a healthy state-of-mind and life style (no drinking or smoking). I've been reading how doldrums & depression can wreak havoc on the immune system.

John
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 10:33 PM

finally, we all agree! A good night's sleep is one of the greatest things you can do for your body. All your systems reset during sleep. Stress is a killer and probably caused more deaths than anything else.

Vitamin d is immune friendly too and sunshine.

Exercise for sure. laughter, as Robert Plant said "does anybody remember laughter"



Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/15/20 11:18 PM

Got to take it easy with Vitamin D supplements though. It's a fat-soluble vitamin. You won’t overdose with the D from sunlight or in the food you eat though.

John
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
finally, we all agree! A good night's sleep is one of the greatest things you can do for your body. All your systems reset during sleep. Stress is a killer and probably caused more deaths than anything else.

Vitamin d is immune friendly too and sunshine.

Exercise for sure. laughter, as Robert Plant said "does anybody remember laughter"





That was the creepiest thing that Robert Plant ever did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5DPFcI9yfQ
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 02:08 AM

It's probably one of the most famous lines from a live concert.

Right up there with. She said, lola, l.o.l.a. kinks

Or , I want YOU to Want ME. Cheap trick

Or , nobody wins unless everybody wins....... Bruuuuceeee

Or, this is our first concert were scared chytless..... CSN
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 10:38 AM

I think we are too quick to write off natural cures. I had heart palpations all my life, or so it seemed, my heart would miss a beat at number nine count, it concerned me but the Doctors said it was nothing to worry about. Then it started missing on every third or fourth beat, so I was concerned. I had started going to a naturopathic Doctor a few year before and she told me things that were going on in my body that I was not told before. Anyway I went to see her for a check up and she put me on a machine and the machine gave a print out of what was going on in my body. Now I had not told her about the missing beats of my heart. So she said to me that I was low on magnesium, so I said to her, would that cause heart palpations, she said yes, magnesium was very important to conduct the signal from my brain that tells the heart to beat. She told me to start taking Natural Calm, which is pure magnesium. She said to not take too much because it can effect your bowels. So I started taking it, after I found what was the right amount for me, and after that, I can go a year and not have one missed heart beat. All the year I was going to the Doctors having annual checkups and not once did they tell me I was low on magnesium.

Our food supplies are so low in minerals and vitamins and trace elements , due to poor farming practice, that we are not getting what we need in the food we consume. So we need to take supplements to give the body what it needs. Half our ailments can be traced back to our poor eating habits, lack of exercise and sleep, over consumption of alcohol, drugs and smoking. We keep putting poisons in our body until the body can't handle it any more, we get sick and wonder why.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 03:26 PM

Maybe some light at the end of the tunnel. Thousands are starting protests against the stay-at-home orders. I guess all Americans aren't sheep. About time this Country is taken back from the controlling, power hungry bas-turds.

John smile
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Maybe some light at the end of the tunnel. Thousands are starting protests against the stay-at-home orders. I guess all Americans aren't sheep. About time this Country is taken back from the controlling, power hungry bas-turds.

John smile



Right John....Those people in NOLA were not sheeple at all. They went right on with their Mardi Gras. Damn the torpedoes.
Yet the overlord Houston mayor called off the Rodeo which is the largest rodeo event in the world with major concerts every night for two weeks. They hold it in an NFL stadium, And the sheeple here obeyed their overlord..


The City of Houston/Harris County has a population of 4.6 million people.
The State of Louisiana has a population of 4.6 million people
Houston/Harris County currently has 4097 cases and 46 deaths.
NOLA has 22,532 cases and 1,156 deaths.

My conclusion:
We desperately need to re-start the country's economy...but those people in MIchigan are idiots for congregating at this time. Not role models..

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 05:28 PM

we had had 4300 new cases last night.

If they wanna protest to head
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 05:41 PM

"We desperately need to re-start the country's economy...but those people in MIchigan are idiots for congregating at this time. Not role models.." - Fde

Hmm... idiots? I'd call them freedom fighters! Enough of this crap. Get the economy back full blast. If the sheep still want to hide in their safe little cubicles, fine. It should be left up to the individual - not the power-hungry controlling bas-turds.

John smile
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 05:59 PM

Hey John, I do not agree.

The infection rate has doubled in a week.

What is an economy when people are dying ?

Stay home. Practice social distancing and we will get through this thing much faster.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
"We desperately need to re-start the country's economy...but those people in MIchigan are idiots for congregating at this time. Not role models.." - Fde

Hmm... idiots? I'd call them freedom fighters! Enough of this crap. Get the economy back full blast. If the sheep still want to hide in their safe little cubicles, fine. It should be left up to the individual - not the power-hungry controlling bas-turds.

John smile


People who are too obstinate to do what is in the best interest of their own survival are idiots.
People who play the odds assuming that their survival is more than likely, yet their behavior and rhetoric will result in the death of someone(s) else are....(fill in the blank)
a
Post script...Civilization has always had leaders. The dimocrat lady who runs Michigan is benign as any. Your rhetoric is hyperbolic.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 06:53 PM

The economy won't run with sick and dead people. of course we have to reopen, the question is when.

John, I don't believe Marty supports your idea. He said he's washed his hands more recently than ever before.

I respect Marty for putting politics aside and doing and saying what makes sense.

I feel the same way about trump. He has been an idiot, and smart during this. He helped his people more than I thought he would have...yeah he's put his name on checks, but he did sign the bill.

And he has listened to his advisors so far which surprised me.

I give him a c could a been an A could have been an F

This ain't about politics. I know people who are dead, do you?

Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 07:20 PM

Seems everyone wants guarantees these days. Hint… there ain’t no guarantees in life. I may die of a heart attack tonight. And I bet they’d add my death to the corona death count.
“their behavior and rhetoric will result in the death of someone else” – Martin That someone else you're talking about has the right to stay in their safe prison.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 07:33 PM

No they wouldn't John. Besides heading of 5 people who died of covid , I know two who didnt, in fact, I got a call last night that somebody died of cancer. Mother of two, no covid.

There are never gurantees. But if somebody wants to go licking a subway wall, they can do it. But stay the fuack away from me!
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Seems everyone wants guarantees these days. Hint… there ain’t no guarantees in life. I may die of a heart attack tonight. And I bet they’d add my death to the corona death count.
“their behavior and rhetoric will result in the death of someone else” – Martin That someone else you're talking about has the right to stay in their safe prison.


John
You are using hyperbole to accuse people of hyperbole.
I don't live in a prison, real or virtual. I do my own thinking and am not always loved for it. But I can recognize a threat when I see one. As I said, my county has 4.6 million people and there have been only 46 deaths. I rate the chances of me getting infected as extremely low. But the chances of death for the 46 people who got it are 100 percent. Add to that the anecdotal observance that my wife and i are seeing New York Plates when we ride our bikes.

Before I start storming OUT of the Bastille, I'm going to give all of this a couple of weeks to reveal itself more conclusively as non-threatening to me and my wife.

Until then,

Herd member..

Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 07:35 PM

Food for thought

.
Which deaths counts towards covid-19 differs by states

.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 08:10 PM

Yes no guarantees in life John L

People die in car accidents all the time, but does that mean everyone should go out and play in traffic?

Now I do not wholly disagree...I expect that there can be staged releases of classes of individuals in the near future...ie those that have had it and are now immune come to mind, and perhaps others that medical professional can agree on.

But a wholesale release of the population back into society for the sake of starting the economy is not smart

Above I mentioned The Law of Large Numbers. It simply posits that as the sample size increases, individual cases and subsets tend towards the mean.

The latest Johns Hopkins epidemic map says that worldwide, there are 2,113,226 CONFIRMED cases with 140,371 deaths which is about 6.64%

In the US..... (at the time I first wrote it someone was touting the great results in the US that were at about 2%...I said then said it would move towards the then 4% average), .....there are currently 657,720 CONFIRMED cases and 33,460 deaths or about 5.1%

It is an iron clad law in statistics. Full stop.

If you let everybody loose, you can expect that in the US population of 330 million, you will lose between 4 and 8% of the population...that is 13 MILLION to 26 MILLION if everybody gets it.

I don't believe for an instant everone will, but lets say half does. Still 6 to 13 million. A quarter of the population? Still 3 to 6 million. 10% of the population? Still 1.3 to 2.6 million. 1%? This is what Trump is hoping for when he said 100k to 250K.

Now I know you doubt the numbers at various level...#of cases, # of deaths, #of unreported cases....that the virus even exists (something about exosomes) and that it is caused by something else entirely... For every scientific or medical opinion, you have some other explanation as to why these very smart experts are wrong and you are right...and that contrary what these experts are saying about social distancing, well, just go out and "play in the traffic" because the economy and the almighty dollar are far more important than human life.

Yup....no guarantees in life, so why not stack the odds even more against others? He&&, if a car doesn't get them, a heart attack will, and if a heart attack doesn't get them someone will shoot them, and if they do not die by gunshot they may get a stroke, kidney disease, dementia, old age

...so what is the problem introducing some other way like exposure to this very infectious organism with a proven death rate???

Have you considered that perhaps you are the sheep being led by those with ulterior motives? Anti vaxxers, an aspiring senator from Massachusetts, lobbyists for Big Business????

Just asking

I know I will not change your mind John because you are simply set in your thoughts and opinions and every "expert" you link to tickles your confirmation bias....just like everything I see from those I consider "experts" tickles mine. So it is very unlikely our twain shall meet.

But I do rest assured that it is most likely that medical opinion and science will prevail.

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 08:23 PM

Here's an announcement.

A high school classmates died, no pre existing conditions, 52.

Covid 19 positive test. Cough, fever, diarheaa.

10 day battle and died.

Anyway, we know having conditions makes you more prone, so that his why they are doing what they are doing.

Putting deaths aside, the fact that nj is having 3,4 thousand positive tests every day is very concerning to me.

Dying from Covud becomes more likely if you have it! I don't like the new test numbers its disturbing.

And just the number of elderly dying is sickening...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-je...p-makeshift-morgue-nursing-home-andover/

Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 08:29 PM

Oh, I didn't mean to come here. I thought I was on CNN news. Oh, I am... laugh
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 08:32 PM

I guess being right is more important than death.

And I never watch cnn, nor fox. I used to watch bill oreillyy and Dennis miller, but I realize all those stations are garbage.

But I think your trolling us now John
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 08:35 PM

No mention of covid 19 and he was elderly...

https://www.newser.com/story/289660...;utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_top
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Oh, I didn't mean to come here. I thought I was on CNN news. Oh, I am... laugh


Were you looking for Alex Jones and Info Wars? wink


A musical note...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbnrdCS57d0
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 09:08 PM

Late night tv has been awful, but I thought this was good, perfect song for the times.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GbZtFKgqXIs
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 10:09 PM

Listen to your scientists and medical staff. If you are not medically trained YOU do not have a valid opinion.

If you don't wish to practice social distancing and reduce the risk factor to our vulnerable population, that's Ok. Just stay the f@ck away from me..

Please use some common sense and realise the spread of this disease is in phase 2. i.e. person to person transmission.. Want to go see grandma and kill her ?

It is sheer stupidity to deny that this situation is not escalating.Let those fools transmit further infection between themselves. Just remember it's not about YOU.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 10:53 PM

I'm confused about trump plan to reopen. Now the gov will call shots after all the bickering about who has the power.

Three phases, bars will reopen in second phase, but just have social distancing, lol. Will make a dance out of the question, and hard to buy a girl a drink from 6 feet away.

I guess they already know social distancing WON'T be practiced anyway.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/16/20 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I'm confused about trump plan to reopen. Now the gov will call shots after all the bickering about who has the power.

Three phases, bars will reopen in second phase, but just have social distancing, lol. Will make a dance out of the question, and hard to buy a girl a drink from 6 feet away.

I guess they already know social distancing WON'T be practiced anyway.



If that is so, I dont know why Trump backed off but I'm glad he did. The governors are there and there are fifty of them. It makes good sense that they call the shots and Trump backs up any reasonable decision.

And there is politics. The dims go off on anything that Trump says. If.he says open up, they call him a psychotic murderer. This way, he and sympathetic governors in red states can get things moving along and Trump can blame the governors in socialist states if they dont come on line.

I think that NYC may have a problem. Between taxes, an out of reach cost of living and now the ease with which disease spreads...it may be hard to rent a U Haul up there.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 12:50 AM

So there is an acid test coming.

A large group of demonstrators decided that it was OK to congregate in Lansing to protest against their being forced to stay at home.

Seems Betty deVos and hubby spurred on a republican backlash against confinement and decided that the Michigan governor and her medical advisors have no clue and they know far better...and they claim that the order to stay home violates all kinds of right

Yup, they must have the state's best interests at heart because it could not possibly be an attempt to discredit someone who is seen as a possible democratic VP candidate
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
So there is an acid test coming.

A large group of demonstrators decided that it was OK to congregate in Lansing to protest against their being forced to stay at home.

Seems Betty deVos and hubby spurred on a republican backlash against confinement and decided that the Michigan governor and her medical advisors have no clue and they know far better...and they claim that the order to stay home violates all kinds of right

Yup, they must have the state's best interests at heart because it could not possibly be an attempt to discredit someone who is seen as a possible democratic VP candidate





I don't know but suspect that the Devos thing might not be true. I heard Unger claiming that people from Devos' family partially financed the effort. Nothing is impossible but that would be kind of pointless. Unger, Stephanie Miller et al do not have any ethical misgivings spreading unfounded allegations to smear republicans. I listen to them frequently..

Limbaugh and Hannity do their fair share of distorting points of view. Mostly they leave facts out that dont fit a narrative. I listen to Unger and Miller to see if any of the omissions turn up over there. They rarely do. Miller is just a clown who tosses turds. Unger tries to pretend that he is Mr Factual but he's not. He's just a propagandist like all the rest. But if you listen to all of them sometimes the truth falls out in the margins.

Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 02:20 AM

Probably should not have named names...took away from the gist of the post. My bad...especially if that part was planted by partisans in the article I read, or perhaps I read too much into it.

In any event, I retract that part about DeVos being part of this
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 03:12 AM

Mlb wants to play the baseball season, all games in Arizona, which means Arizona doesnt have a big problem which is probably why Couchgrouch doesn't see the whole scope in the us.

If you asked anybody in the Bronx if they think there would be baseball in ny, they'd say your nuts.

Won't be any crowd still.... https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/16/rob-manfred-mlb-2020-season/
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 01:07 PM

Arizona has 4,258 cases at last count which is more than New Mexico, Utah and Nevada. Other states with the least cases include Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, Nebraska....all states with "natural distancing"

IMO the reason for MLB picking Arizona is that is is one of two states where spring training occurs so it has lots of facilities. The other state, Florida, has 23,343 cases

Still a pipe dream ...I know various professional leagues have floated ideas, but no one is yet seriously working on implementing anu solution.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Arizona has 4,258 cases at last count which is more than New Mexico, Utah and Nevada. Other states with the least cases include Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, Nebraska....all states with "natural distancing"

IMO the reason for MLB picking Arizona is that is is one of two states where spring training occurs so it has lots of facilities. The other state, Florida, has 23,343 cases

Still a pipe dream ...I know various professional leagues have floated ideas, but no one is yet seriously working on implementing anu solution.



Seems right. Thanks for posting.
Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide


I don't know but suspect that the Devos thing might not be true. I heard Unger claiming that people from Devos' family partially financed the effort. Nothing is impossible but that would be kind of pointless. Unger, Stephanie Miller et al do not have any ethical misgivings spreading unfounded allegations to smear republicans. I listen to them frequently..

Limbaugh and Hannity do their fair share of distorting points of view. Mostly they leave facts out that dont fit a narrative. I listen to Unger and Miller to see if any of the omissions turn up over there. They rarely do. Miller is just a clown who tosses turds. Unger tries to pretend that he is Mr Factual but he's not. He's just a propagandist like all the rest. But if you listen to all of them sometimes the truth falls out in the margins.



Martin, why would you waste your time listening to any of these folks when there are credible sources, such as Reuters, NPR, BBC, WSJ, etc? At least you listen to both sides - I'm not familiar with Unger or Miller, but know exactly what Limbaugh and Hannity are - but surely it would be more efficient to ignore the sound of political gears being ground altogether and save yourself the trouble of filtering out the lies and propaganda that make up most of the output from these sources?
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 02:12 PM

It's because Arizona has the hotel accomodations, it's also because it has to be warmer weather, Florida also rains too much, in a shortened season you can't have many rainouts, especially when all teams are playing same venue.

But by nature, a baseball game already has more than the standard amount of people to be called a gathering.. 25 people per team, in addition to coaches, umps, camera people, security, stadium people, reporters.

All those people have homes away from there, everywhere they go they can spread the virus, bring it to the game, then bring it home.

It will tough unless they have instant testing.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 02:29 PM

A bit of good news. Bad news malaria drug don't work, but good news this seems to.... https://www.newser.com/story/289693...;utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_top
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 02:40 PM

Yeah Gavin. I wish all of the US would search the various mainstream US media outlets to get a better picture of what is happening....AND go beyond their borders for a more independent and objective look. See a good article here that talks about independent news sources

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/top-5-world-news-websites-guaranteed-free-censorship/

The same site also ranks unbiased news websites

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/trust-news-sites/

As an exercise, look at Reporters Without Borders annual rankings looking at freedom of the press.
https://rsf.org/en/united-states

Their intent is to "reflect the degree of freedom that journalists, news organisations, and netizens have in each country, and the efforts made by authorities to respect this freedom."

A pop up also shows the ranking from 2013 onward. It is definitely not something to be proud of in The Land Of The Free. 47 countries in the world rank higher and it has been about that level since 2014.

A summary is available here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index. Shows that in 2019, the US ranks just behind Romania and just before Senegal by its parameters.

Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
A bit of good news. Bad news malaria drug don't work, but good news this seems to.... https://www.newser.com/story/289693...;utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_top


I read about remdesivir about the same time that hydroxychloroquine was starting to be touted. However the Chicago test is still considered "anecdotal" since there was no control group. Although it seems that some actual clinical studies are underway (and for hydroxychloroquine and others as well). Of course, if remdesivir turns out to be highly effective, then it would have been a bummer to be in the control group and have gotten a placebo!

Here's to hoping that remdesivir, hydroxychloroquine and other drugs turn out to be good therapeutic drugs. That would definitely help in getting the country opened up again.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 03:07 PM

Well it's anti viral at least, the malaria drug was anti parasite.

I think other hospitals would use it without results as a last resort.

Here is more info, if your fat lose weight...fast! I've heard this before, the heavier you are the greater immune response so it creates too much inflammation. It may be the reason some people had "No known underlying ilnness" , might have been overweight.

This was already known about flu

https://news.yahoo.com/obesity-linked-severe-coronavirus-disease-190941212.html

https://news.yahoo.com/obesity-linked-severe-coronavirus-disease-190941212.html
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Originally Posted by Martin Lide


I don't know but suspect that the Devos thing might not be true. I heard Unger claiming that people from Devos' family partially financed the effort. Nothing is impossible but that would be kind of pointless. Unger, Stephanie Miller et al do not have any ethical misgivings spreading unfounded allegations to smear republicans. I listen to them frequently..

Limbaugh and Hannity do their fair share of distorting points of view. Mostly they leave facts out that dont fit a narrative. I listen to Unger and Miller to see if any of the omissions turn up over there. They rarely do. Miller is just a clown who tosses turds. Unger tries to pretend that he is Mr Factual but he's not. He's just a propagandist like all the rest. But if you listen to all of them sometimes the truth falls out in the margins.



Martin, why would you waste your time listening to any of these folks when there are credible sources, such as Reuters, NPR, BBC, WSJ, etc? At least you listen to both sides - I'm not familiar with Unger or Miller, but know exactly what Limbaugh and Hannity are - but surely it would be more efficient to ignore the sound of political gears being ground altogether and save yourself the trouble of filtering out the lies and propaganda that make up most of the output from these sources?



Gavin

Not to be argumentative but I have known a Bloomberg reporter through music reasonably well. Spent my birthday dinner with them one year. No reporter and no media outlet is bias free and it comes out in the way that they "present the facts" and which facts that they present.
Not anywhere. Not at all. Never existed. Sorry. I was reluctant to disillusion you..but its for your own good. wink
That's why I think that the best information comes from the turd tossers and flames throwers, because with no pangs of conscience, they launch the most damning stuff that they can find.Then you have to sort through piles of garbage for a little truth.

Always with affection,

Marty
Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 03:58 PM

Interesting point of view, Marty. Totally agree that no source is without bias and that's exactly how it comes out. The bias is often in omission. I think I'm reasonably good at spotting it. But it's all a matter of degree. What I call reputable sources are people who at least view their job as being to present the facts objectively but sometimes fall short, since they are only human. I don't waste my time with those who pretty much fall short of being human.

The folks you mention, and others that people often quote, set out to pander to those who only want to hear their view of the world confirmed, amplified, reinforced by fear, distortion and lies, whether it be in the name of ratings or through just being a waste of molecules. I don't have high enough boots to wade through their **** in the off chance of finding a nugget of truth buried in it smile.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 04:03 PM

Well I don't think you"'ll find more accurate or unbiased reporting than right here in JPF.

This is where I get the most crucial news.

Haha I'm spending too much time here. Been working on music but halted recording plans, and I REALLY need sports to return
Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 04:13 PM

Yes, I miss sports too. I might even be persuaded to watch baseball smile
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Interesting point of view, Marty. Totally agree that no source is without bias and that's exactly how it comes out. The bias is often in omission. I think I'm reasonably good at spotting it. But it's all a matter of degree. What I call reputable sources are people who at least view their job as being to present the facts objectively but sometimes fall short, since they are only human. I don't waste my time with those who pretty much fall short of being human.

The folks you mention, and others that people often quote, set out to pander to those who only want to hear their view of the world confirmed, amplified, reinforced by fear, distortion and lies, whether it be in the name of ratings or through just being a waste of molecules. I don't have high enough boots to wade through their **** in the off chance of finding a nugget of truth buried in it smile.


It works for me like this Gavin....
Rachel Maddow presents a damning synopsis of Trumps smoking gun which proves that he colluded directly with the Russians ....almost always according to the OPINIONS of her carefully screened guests.
I'll think....Damn, really, that'a bad. Real bad.
Then I'll go to Hannity and see what he says about that particular smoking gun. Is it true? If not, why not? Usually he wont address the smoking gun but will present irrefutable evidence of why Trump could not have colluded with the Russians. ...according to the opinions of his carefully screened guests.

So like when the detectives are stalking a wrong doer of SVU...you just let em talk and wait for the truth to slip out in the margins from somewhere.
Most of the time, like Trump, they never admit that they were wrong and the truth never makes a clear showing and the distortions never stop.
Once in a while it does.

I'll give you that NPR is more balanced now than it has been in the past. I think that new morality is the result of an American president and senate that might otherwise shut their funding off.
But the BBC? Unbiased reporting. Are you kidding me Gavin?

smile
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 05:51 PM

Martin and others...have a look at my post that links to an article that talks about the best sources of unbiased\uncensored news. BBC is definitely on it.

In order...news sources

Associated Press
Wall Street Journal
Reuters
BBC
with the following as also rans
C-Span
Financial Times
Bureau of Investigative Journalism
Christian Science Monitor
Pew Research
The Economist

Websites
Associated Press
BBC
C-Span
Bureau of Investigative Journalism
Christian Science Monitor
The Economist
NPR
Propublica
Reuters
USA Today
Wall Street Journal
FAIR

Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 05:56 PM

I can see how the BBC might not seem unbiased to a US audience because, looking in from the outside, they can present some uncomfortable truths with fewer inhibitions, but they have no ax to grind. For instance, in being honest about the current President, they can just tell it like it is without having to straddle a false middle ground. In general, their reporting is factual. I guess that is the difference I'm trying to describe. Perspective is one thing, and we should be on the look out for it. Lying is another, and that's what sets these organizations apart from the likes of Hannity. Interestingly, the BBC is accused of bias by both sides of the political divide, so they must be doing something right smile
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 06:04 PM

https://www.journalism.org/2020/01/24/u-s-media-polarization-and-the-2020-election-a-nation-divided/


Insightful article on US media and who trusts what...answers not surprising but stellar analysis

It is actually part of the PEW Research Center referenced above...accessed via its tabs...in this case the Media & News tab

https://www.pewresearch.org/
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Martin and others...have a look at my post that links to an article that talks about the best sources of unbiased\uncensored news. BBC is definitely on it.

In order...news sources

Associated Press
Wall Street Journal
Reuters
BBC
with the following as also rans
C-Span
Financial Times
Bureau of Investigative Journalism
Christian Science Monitor
Pew Research
The Economist

Websites
Associated Press
BBC
C-Span
Bureau of Investigative Journalism
Christian Science Monitor
The Economist
NPR
Propublica
Reuters
USA Today
Wall Street Journal
FAIR



I've lived too long John.
If you are conservative the news has always had a liberal slant,
Don't believe me? Google the breakdown of liberal to conservative journalists in the major outlets and see how they vote.

Until Limbaugh and Fox and the internet.came along the right had no major media advocate. Now it does and that is good but like their left counterparts, a reasonable person has to be skeptical of anything they say.

Most of the people on song sites lean left so they understandably like what they hear on NPR and BBC etc.
If you lean right and are honest you cant really debate that Trump tells a lot of petty lies and vagaries that may be factually represented on the news, but he also does many things that I consider good that get little consideration and sometimes no air time at all....except on Fox and AM.

So I wonder...Who all is it that decides what "sources" are unbiased and uncensored? Are THEY unbiased and uncensored?

Answer:
No. They are not.

USA TODAY? C'mon now.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 09:55 PM

Brian was right on the Prine topic...it's a fact that's how they're being listed. It is NOT a fact, that's how they should be listed. People are being listed as having died from Covid 19 ( or Covid 9, as Biden calls it) if they are PRESUMED as having it. This is unprecedented and misleading.

If topics were closed because nothing new was being added, JPF would be vacant.

The person who arbitrarily deleted my posts owes me an apology, as well as a specific explanation why he did it. It was predicted earlier in this very topic that US hospitals would be overrun. This was obviously fear-mongering BS. Surely none of my posts sunk to that level. Maybe the moderator wants to be a gopher for the governor of Michigan.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/17/20 11:46 PM

Couch, I expect that those posts were deleted because that discussion was in the wrong place. To debate the cause of John Prine's death at a thread meant to honour him was IMO disrespectful in the extreme. This is actually the thread for that debate.

Now we can debate the issue of a cause his death ad nauseum. The fact is his IMMEDIATE cause of death was due to COVID. The rest of it contributed lots to his susceptibility.It is what the medical community is talking about when they say that the elderly and those with chronic conditions are most at risk of dying

The fact that there may be fudging going on is another debate entirely.
Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/18/20 12:04 AM

If we're going to start demanding apologies, I know one piece of overstuffed living room furniture who should probably just include one in his signature.

I apologize for that.
Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/18/20 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Martin and others...have a look at my post that links to an article that talks about the best sources of unbiased\uncensored news. BBC is definitely on it.

In order...news sources

Associated Press
Wall Street Journal
Reuters
BBC
with the following as also rans
C-Span
Financial Times
Bureau of Investigative Journalism
Christian Science Monitor
Pew Research
The Economist

Websites
Associated Press
BBC
C-Span
Bureau of Investigative Journalism
Christian Science Monitor
The Economist
NPR
Propublica
Reuters
USA Today
Wall Street Journal
FAIR



I've lived too long John.
If you are conservative the news has always had a liberal slant,
Don't believe me? Google the breakdown of liberal to conservative journalists in the major outlets and see how they vote.

Until Limbaugh and Fox and the internet.came along the right had no major media advocate. Now it does and that is good but like their left counterparts, a reasonable person has to be skeptical of anything they say.

Most of the people on song sites lean left so they understandably like what they hear on NPR and BBC etc.
If you lean right and are honest you cant really debate that Trump tells a lot of petty lies and vagaries that may be factually represented on the news, but he also does many things that I consider good that get little consideration and sometimes no air time at all....except on Fox and AM.

So I wonder...Who all is it that decides what "sources" are unbiased and uncensored? Are THEY unbiased and uncensored?

Answer:
No. They are not.

USA TODAY? C'mon now.

You make some good points, Marty, even if I don't totally agree with all of them. I agree that nobody is totally unbiased. Some are more aware of their biases than others. The definition of what is left or right also changes over time. The US has moved a considerable distance to the right over the last decade and more, so the middle of the road has also moved right. It's complicated smile
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/18/20 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by couchgrouch
Brian was right on the Prine topic...it's a fact that's how they're being listed. It is NOT a fact, that's how they should be listed. People are being listed as having died from Covid 19 ( or Covid 9, as Biden calls it) if they are PRESUMED as having it. This is unprecedented and misleading.

If topics were closed because nothing new was being added, JPF would be vacant.

The person who arbitrarily deleted my posts owes me an apology, as well as a specific explanation why he did it. It was predicted earlier in this very topic that US hospitals would be overrun. This was obviously fear-mongering BS. Surely none of my posts sunk to that level. Maybe the moderator wants to be a gopher for the governor of Michigan.


Robert,

The projections of 100-250k deaths never made any sense. I applied a little algebra to the cases and deaths at the time, and given that mitigation was underway, it did not seem plausible to go from 20,000 deaths to 250,000. Because it never was likely WITH MITIGATION IN PLACE.. Nonetheless the virus is a killer. It aint the seasonal flu. It had a kill rate in Louisiana of 5%. If left to seek its' own level, imo, this country would have hit 250,000 deaths. When the mayor of Houston shut down the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo, he shut down a mix master. He saved a lot of lives. So did the NBA.

Don't be a corona-truther. It aint the facts.
I'm sorry that they deleted your posts. There's your apology. All good?
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/18/20 02:25 AM

martin, I'm just reporting to you smile

USA Today made in on the list. This is what was said about the choice by the curating site.

In 2016, USA Today shared the crown of widest circulation in the United States with the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times. It’s read all over the world and is a major source of news for millions of people every day. The op-eds in USA Today are clearly labeled and present a range of viewpoints (a refreshing change from the opinion pieces in some other publications).

AllSides gives the publication a center rating, although it notes that there’s been some disagreement. The fact that two blind surveys supported this rating adds weight, however. You might be used to seeing USA Today in front of your hotel room door, but if you’re looking for good news, do check their site regularly.

This site cureated the polls and presents news in an interesting way

https://www.allsides.com/unbiased-balanced-news


Make sure to scroll down. It shows news from the left, center and right, in collumns. So you can get various perspectives from one place
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/18/20 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
martin, I'm just reporting to you smile

USA Today made in on the list. This is what was said about the choice by the curating site.

In 2016, USA Today shared the crown of widest circulation in the United States with the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times. It’s read all over the world and is a major source of news for millions of people every day. The op-eds in USA Today are clearly labeled and present a range of viewpoints (a refreshing change from the opinion pieces in some other publications).

AllSides gives the publication a center rating, although it notes that there’s been some disagreement. The fact that two blind surveys supported this rating adds weight, however. You might be used to seeing USA Today in front of your hotel room door, but if you’re looking for good news, do check their site regularly.

This site cureated the polls and presents news in an interesting way

https://www.allsides.com/unbiased-balanced-news


Make sure to scroll down. It shows news from the left, center and right, in collumns. So you can get various perspectives from one place


Thanks John.

Next time Trump gets imbroiled in a he-said-they-said, I'll go to my usual flame throwers for cross-rebukes and also see what USA Today reports.
I am not involved in politics or anything societal other than a casual observer looking to be entertained, but that will add to the fun of it.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/18/20 12:48 PM

Left wing/right wing? What I said was pretty much Bill Maher's monologue last night.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/18/20 08:12 PM

I agree there should be a phased in approach to Trump's Get America Working Again program.

In phase one, all those who believe him that it is safe to go out and work and mingle, should be allowed to do so without restraint. So should all those who believe the virus is a hoax, and we can also add all the anti vaxxers who are not going to risk a vaccination.

In phase two the rest of us can evaluate the results.

Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/18/20 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
I think there should be a phased in approach to Trump's Get America Working Again program.

In phase one, all those who believe this virus is a hoax or harmless, and all those who believe Trump that it is safe to go out and work and mingle, should be allowed to do so without restraint.

In phase two the rest of us can evaluate the results before doing anything




Works. Subject to two considerations.

If you think that Trump's people are the only ones growing restless, they are not. Look around and take note of those that are ignoring social distancing. The people in Michigan are just the ones dumb enough to be lured out in public and stage a clusterfck. All they had to do was wait for others to pursue their cause.

And, the people eager to declare that they are unafraid to resume their normal life should have to declare that before they actually do.... and their insurance companies should have a right to charge them extra or deny them coverage if they get the covid. Only fair.

Agreed Robert?
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/18/20 09:38 PM

Was meant as a joke...but in Florida they are re opening the beaches...
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/18/20 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Was meant as a joke...but in Florida they are re opening the beaches...


Specifically Jacksonville as of today and it appears that people are heading out to the beach. If the other beaches in Florida follow along...then you will have your baseline laboratory. I will be watching closely myself.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/19/20 10:34 AM

Just a quick look at the date rates per country. I tried to remove all the super small countries and those with zero rates. I was interested because Trump stated that we were doing great compared to all other countries.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/19/20 01:11 PM

"Australia’s Morrison Wants Pensions to Fund Company Bailouts"... Morrison deserves a punch in the mouth just for suggesting this: https://www.bing.com/search?q=austr...mp;cvid=050a9cadd5174553d7a4a148496bb98b

John
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/19/20 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Just a quick look at the date rates per country. I tried to remove all the super small countries and those with zero rates. I was interested because Trump stated that we were doing great compared to all other countries.

[Linked Image]



Amongst the developed nations and countries with a lot of international commerce (G20) , we are doing reasonably well in the incidence rate of cases and deaths.
Comparisons to places like Singapore are invalid.

Questions:
1) What is one of the most prosperous international cities in the world. Answer: NYC
2) What would our stats look like if New York state was removed from the calculations? Dramatically less concerning.
3) What would our stats look like if NY and every state that immediately borders it was removed? Even more dramatically less concerning.

Conclusion: There are tolls to be paid (sometimes) for prosperity, density and freedom of movement.

Ps China is lying.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/19/20 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
I agree there should be a phased in approach to Trump's Get America Working Again program.

In phase one, all those who believe him that it is safe to go out and work and mingle, should be allowed to do so without restraint. So should all those who believe the virus is a hoax, and we can also add all the anti vaxxers who are not going to risk a vaccination.

In phase two the rest of us can evaluate the results.



John

It appears that Sweden is going to provide the advanced nations of the West with a baseline for going head-on and unshielded into the virus.
Descendants of Vikings are still crazy after all these years. I think that the idea is to take a big hit and be done with it. Then check the stats against other nations that mitigated.

We'll see.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/19/20 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide

Amongst the developed nations and countries with a lot of international commerce (G20) , we are doing reasonably well in the incidence rate of cases and deaths.
Comparisons to places like Singapore are invalid.

Questions:
1) What is one of the most prosperous international cities in the world. Answer: NYC
2) What would our stats look like if New York state was removed from the calculations? Dramatically less concerning.
3) What would our stats look like if NY and every state that immediately borders it was removed? Even more dramatically less concerning.

Conclusion: There are tolls to be paid (sometimes) for prosperity, density and freedom of movement.

Ps China is lying.


NYC has 242K infections and a population of 8.54 million -- an infection rate of a whopping 28,000 per million!!!!! Singapore has a population density of about 1/3 of NYC.
For china to have a rate close to the USA, they would have to have close to 1 million infections. Not an outlandish number, but they were able to quarantine and lockdown Wuhan (and other places) in a manner that would be near impossible in the USA.

But yeah, China is probably lying.
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/19/20 06:42 PM

Both the graphs for new infections and death rates are going vertical. We are not out of the woods yet, and will not be for some time.

To ease social isolation measures is at this time is premature.To the protesters : It's not about YOU..

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/19/20 08:12 PM

Here is some interesting information from PEW Research

What folks are thinking about opening iup the economy
[Linked Image]


What folks are sying about seeing false information about COVID
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/20/20 01:05 AM

Question:

1) Was Donald Trump quick or too slow to react to the onset of the virus?

Better question?

2) Given that there were only a handful of confirmed cases in a country of 330 million at the time, and that Trump was being fed misleading and incorrect information by the WHO and that the Chinese government was concealing the severity of the outbreak at it's point of origin....do you think that Donald Trump acted too slowly in shutting the United States of America down?

3) Do you think that you (the reader) would have done any better?
4) Do you think that Hillary Clinton would have done any better?
5) Do you think that Joe Biden would have done any better?
6) Do you think that a congresswoman who was encouraging people to come on down to China town at that exact time would have done any better?


Correct Answers..

1) in hindsight...possibly.
2) No, not truthfully
3) In my dreams.
4) hail no.
5) Sht no.
6) Fck no.

Polling is MADE TO ORDER. Pew is hopelessly caught up in politics.


Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/20/20 02:05 AM

Martin, I think you are asking the wrong questions.

The US intelligence/medical folks were getting reports/data in November that there was a potential "novel" virus in china. By December and early January, person to person transmission was suspected and/or confirmed. There was no need for trump to jump in and close things down (he never really did -- it was state and local authorities). The public health infrastructure should have been in full swing following the pandemic plans that were put in place. Someone should have been checking supplies and determining what was needed and how to get it.

The problem was that a lot of key positions were empty and the ball was dropped -- that is 100% directly attributable to the anti-deep state philosophy of trump and his minions. Trump's actions (or inactions) are just a gross dereliction of duty. But at least he got a few rounds of golf and a few rallies in during the month of February.

But I will do my best to answer the questions

1.) Yes
2.) False question -- he had the availability of mostly correct information from his intelligence/medical agencies. You know, if things were handled by the deep state better in December/January/February maybe a full shutdown would never have been necessary.
3.) probably -- couldn't do any worse. Well actually I am not that good at golf, so I could not have done what trump was doing.
4.) Absolutely!!!
5.) Absolutely!!!
6.) Absolutely!!!

At this point in time, I just can't understand why anyone would still supports him. It is clear by now that is a total pathological liar and a dangerous narcissist. It really is always me, me, me for him during these "coronavirus" press conferences. I just can't understand it. But maybe that is just my thinking.

This about sums it up, but Piers thinks Trump can still turn it around: Piers Morgan Interview
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/20/20 12:28 PM

If you want to see how your state is doing, go to John Hopkins Coronavirus Data

1.) Click on the United States (top left) and then
2.) at the bottom left click on admin1
3.) at the far right bottom click on daily cases.

For NY you get something like the chart below.

[Linked Image]

Here are the guidelines to start phase 1 re-opening. The main one seems to be a 14 day downward trajectory in infections or infection rate since with more testing comes more cases.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/20/20 12:50 PM

Ahhh right Kevin. The infallible INTEL and MEDICAL FOLKS regarding a "POTENTIAL" virus inside of China.
Trump should have started manufacturing ventilators then?
" SUSPECTED AND OR CONFIRMED"
"PANDEMIC PLANS THAT WERE IN PLACE"

INTEL- such as the intel that predicated an invasion based upon the certainty that IRAQ had lethal gases. Remember the govt ginning up gas masks and how we all waited for Sadam to unleash the gas counter offensive...but it never came because the intel was crap.
Or INTEL like what John McCain had which was actually Russian disinformation including tales of whores pissing on Obama's bed and became part and parcel to an investigation of a president.. I don't even know what Christopher Steele looks like, because he wont come out of the shadows and stand behind his INTEL.

And the MEDICAL FOLKS. You mean like the ones 2-3 weeks ago who told us that the MODELS were certain in their indication of deaths upwards to 250,000 people. Five days later OH NEVER MIND, it will be more like 25 percent of that. FIVE DAYS LATER?? Even I, with a little algebra could see that those numbers were without foundation. 3 weeks later in Texas we have 28,000 beds available for COVID and need 1300. And there is a mountain of ventilators still being produced that will never be used.

And I will admit that Trump gets an F for PR at the outset of this. It was the wrong time and subject to be belligerent and flippant, but when he did take solid action Biden characterized it as "FALLING BACK ON XENOPHOBIA." Why would someone who would have responded better than Trump dismiss one of the most effective and basic things that he ordered as racist??
And PELOSI, responded with COME ON DOWN TO CHINA TOWN. But if she had been running the response, she would have fixed it perfectly??

Not reality Kevin.

But but ....Orange Man BAD. Orange man, he so bad.

Was FDR? He let the Pacific fleet be used for stationary target practice.
Was JFK? He sent an invasion force to Cuba without air cover and they were hammered.
Was Bill Clinton? He let the WTC bombers et al go uncontested as they built up bases and trained in Afghanistan.
And then there is W. An oblivious legacy clown. He ignored intel regarding the WTC bombers and presided over the destruction of the economy. Makes me sad to think about.


There is no doubt that every week a president is presented with a doomsday scenario by someone whose life is dedicated to that particular version of doom.
Putting the USA on a war time footing because there was "INTEL" that a bad virus was loose in China is not a decision that a reasonable person would have likely made.
Sometimes life offers nothing but bad choices to make and you take a hit..


Ps...I have tried to keep my part in this discussion on the disease because it is so important and politics is so divisive.
Could you and John V try and keep your TDS in check here? If you do, I wont feel a need to correct the assertions that it produces.

Please.


















Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/20/20 02:44 PM

Woo-hoo, Texas is starting the reopening process today I do believe. Let's hope it all goes relatively smoothly. Although Sweden is still higher than the USA in the death rate from coronavirus, they have had a more relaxed approach. They still do social distancing, but more things have stayed open in Sweden. Texas Re-opening

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/20/20 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Woo-hoo, Texas is starting the reopening process today I do believe. Let's hope it all goes relatively smoothly. Although Sweden is still higher than the USA in the death rate from coronavirus, they have had a more relaxed approach. They still do social distancing, but more things have stayed open in Sweden. Texas Re-opening

[Linked Image]


Right now, I think that Sweden and Florida are both good places to watch, Sweden in particular..
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/20/20 06:13 PM

Not sure what you mean by TDS

And I have been trying to be as neutral as I can with no finger pointing. I said several pages ago that there would be enough time for finger pointing later and that what was more important now was to get through this situation....did stumble with the Michigan protest and pointed to DeVos involvement which I then retracted

What was posted above was independent research asking people's opinions. The fact that it was headlined by people's attitude towards the President was simply part of a poll...and one question out of 3 ...essentially, about 2\3 of the population thought he did not act fast enough, but they were more concerned about what would happen at the state level and thought the worst was yet to come.

All that was germane to our discussion about "getting back to work". That is why I added the second poll that dealt with misinformation out there that was confusing people



ABOUT PEW RESEARCH CENTER Pew Research Center is a nonpartisan fact tank that informs the public about the issues, attitudes and trends shaping the world. It conducts public opinion polling, demographic research, media content analysis and other empirical social science research. Pew Research Center does not take policy positions. It is a subsidiary of The Pew Charitable Trusts.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/20/20 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Not sure what you mean by TDS

That's Trump Derangement Syndrome. I really think he was talking about me. Since I believe that Trump is an amoral, narcissistic, corrupt sociopath -- I guess I am infected.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/20/20 06:52 PM

You both have TDS.
Clearly neither one of you can watch one of his daily briefings without getting so worked up that you have to go to the computer and post up something diminishing about Donny...in an attempt to make yourself feel better and get your blood pressure down.. That is a syndrome.
smile

I used to follow PEW some on the border issues. Do not have them for neutral.
The Bloomberg reporter than I used to know wasnt even right of Bernie Sanders yet she repeately called herself a "moderate."
Even the pope is somewhere on the Conservative------Commie continuum. wink
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/20/20 07:00 PM

I don't know how accurate this is, but this is why masks work (in theory).

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/20/20 07:02 PM

The top example is bothersome.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/20/20 07:10 PM

LOL...I have absolutely no time for his briefings...but I do watch the synopses on CNN so I can get that unbiased viewpoint I need wink

But a follow up question on that TDS ailment. Is it true that the cure is the antiviral VTTHO-2020 ??


Originally Posted by Martin Lide
You both have TDS.
Clearly neither one of you can watch one of his daily briefings without getting so worked up that you have to go to the computer and post up something diminishing about Donny...in an attempt to make yourself feel better and get your blood pressure down.. That is a syndrome.
smile

I used to follow PEW some on the border issues. Do not have them for neutral.
The Bloomberg reporter than I used to know wasnt even right of Bernie Sanders yet she repeately called herself a "moderate."
Even the pope is somewhere on the Conservative------Commie continuum. wink

Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/20/20 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
The top example is bothersome.


I agree -- I thought is was at least 50%. If you have a n95 mask it should filter out 95% of viral particles -- I don't know how that translates to absolute percentage protection, though.
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/20/20 07:24 PM

The virus is not only airborne. It survives on shiny surfaces and through hand contact and transmission to the mouth and face, it therefore spreads.

Please wash your hands. Baby wipes are cheap.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/20/20 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
LOL...I have absolutely no time for his briefings...but I do watch the synopses on CNN so I can get that unbiased viewpoint I need wink

But a follow up question on that TDS ailment. Is it true that the cure is the antiviral VTTHO-2020 ??


Originally Posted by Martin Lide
You both have TDS.
Clearly neither one of you can watch one of his daily briefings without getting so worked up that you have to go to the computer and post up something diminishing about Donny...in an attempt to make yourself feel better and get your blood pressure down.. That is a syndrome.
smile

I used to follow PEW some on the border issues. Do not have them for neutral.
The Bloomberg reporter than I used to know wasnt even right of Bernie Sanders yet she repeately called herself a "moderate."
Even the pope is somewhere on the Conservative------Commie continuum. wink




It is hard to say at this time. Nothing is predictable in the new Trump World Order. Good or bad, life in this era is mostly about Donny J Trump whether you like him or hate him. Under ordinary circumstances Trump would be dead man walking. In bad circumstances people, if nothing else, just want a new face to look at. But Trump is not toast and the primary reason imo is that his dimocrat opponents have been the Hildabeast, a communist sycophant and a guy who is so dense that he brags about being able to obtain the legislative cooperation of segregationists. It is the damndest convergence of events to try to wrap your head around.

Factor 2 is republicans like McConnell and W and Rubio and many more get in office and crap on what they promised to do and the repugnicon base starts disenfranchising. Trump does not do that.

Many things will occur before November it is hard to say what will happen But if Trump is in it, he is a threat to win.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 02:21 PM

Nothing like working hard to get what you wish for....maybe that "or" should be an "and" ??

[Linked Image]
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 02:28 PM

And another gem....gotta love the twist on an important theme.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 02:36 PM

And one more just for those who want to experience the pandemic first hand..a helpful map from Fox News. You rock Fox!

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 03:58 PM

A metaphor to consider....

A guy is paddling a canoe and being pushed along by a massive current.
All of a sudden a shallow boulder rips a significant hole in the bottom of the canoe.
Now he has to deal with the hole or he will end up sunk and thrashing helplessly in the current.
But all the while he is also....coming closer and closer to being pushed over a vast vertical waterfall.

Does he focus solely on fixing the tear?
Is it imperative to split his attention between the perils and make some compromises?

The answer is yes. Not to be reckless about it, but the suicides and illnesses and despair and devastation to lives and societal destabilization caused by a massive contraction of the economy will dwarf the effects of this virus.
A brutal fact to deal with or it will deal with us on it's terms.
Posted By: couchgrouch

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 04:36 PM

Last night I hit a wall and wept...

...because Chris Cuomo/CNN are being credibly accused of faking his having the virus. His chest x-ray was fine and he was seen strolling miles from his home, looking healthy while supposedly "suffering its rigors" and while New York was on lockdown. Does this mean he didn't really chip a tooth? Or maybe he Colonel Flagg'd himself and went all the way with his performance. Maybe his brother knows and maybe Jake Tapper will ask him.

Naah.

Then there's George Stephanopoulos, who also claims to have it, photographed strolling in the Hamptons without a mask, also looking healthy. Since little Georgy is Clinton's former fixer, maybe a reporter will ask Hillary about it.

Naah.

Then there's the guy with the swastika flag at the Michigan protest.
But wait!!
That photo was taken at a Bernie rally in February. And why was Bernie holding a rally in February? Didn't he know about the millions who were going to die?! There's blood on his hands!

Then there's the brave healthcare workers who stood in front
of vehicles to protest the evil protesters.
But wait!
The photog is famous for staging "events". Can we get the names of the courageous healthcare workers?

Naah.

So, so many frauds.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 07:36 PM

Well the politics of this site has got me more miffed than politicsss...

It wouldn't be shocking for people on the left to fake stuff, but as far as I know Cuomo had it and recovered, don't know when the video was taken.

George Stephanopoulos never claimed to have any symptoms, he tested positive but didn't know he had, he clearly stated that.

I'm at a point where I don't know what to think. Both sides lie, fidge, misrepresent.

Trump is not to blame for the virus coming here, he couldn't know it would blow up, and imagine spending trillions for a cold.

Where he went wrong for me was telling everybody he has it under control, bickering in Twitter like a child, promoting a drug that doesn't work, and encouraging protesters. I mean those protesters look like they were transported from a trump rally, right to demo line.

If anybody thinks they have an inside scoop to this whole thing they are deadly mistaken, nobody knows who is right for wrong.

Credit trump for listening to advisors, except the ones who tell him to stay off twitter, and for signing on to help americans

As bad as Trump looks right now, I can't imagine anyone voting for biden. Last time I didn't vote,and regret it, but it sure looks an option now.

And people closing threads after they make their point is also childish.

But I guess we get what we pay for.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 07:39 PM

I take no issue with a phased in approach based on the advice of doctors and experts Martin

But IMO those people who would force the issue ....they are exposing the rest of their circle to potential harm as well as themselves.

To address your metaphor and possible consequences....another mental exercise is the Trolley thought experiment. Who do you decide should die? Does your answer change if the one person (vs the group) is your child? ...btw 'you" is not you. I know we are essentially on the same page

Glad Texas is not on that map smile


Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio

Where he went wrong for me was telling everybody he has it under control, bickering in Twitter like a child, promoting a drug that doesn't work, and encouraging protesters. I mean those protesters look like they were transported from a trump rally, right to demo line. ...

As bad as Trump looks right now, I can't imagine anyone voting for biden. Last time I didn't vote,and regret it, but it sure looks an option now. ...


I am voting for Biden. I can't imagine anyone wanting another four years of trump. Trump's failed state
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 08:50 PM

Well then here is some light reading for you Kevin to preach to the converted

USA is Failed Experiment

Warning this is not a neutral article. Read at your own risk wink
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
I take no issue with a phased in approach based on the advice of doctors and experts Martin

But IMO those people who would force the issue ....they are exposing the rest of their circle to potential harm as well as themselves.

To address your metaphor and possible consequences....another mental exercise is the Trolley thought experiment. Who do you decide should die? Does your answer change if the one person (vs the group) is your child? ...btw 'you" is not you. I know we are essentially on the same page

Glad Texas is not on that map smile





No arguments with any of that John. And the Trolley thing is completely valid.
I'm not a fan of the protestors. They are just the tools set in motion by the people driving the re-open agenda. Those people have roused a grass-roots swell or the illusion of it so that...they can say that they did not solely make the decision. A borrowed tactic that belongs more to the liberals in modern history than conservatives. wink

In a way it comes down to choosing what you do or letting random cause and effect choose what happens to you.
There is going to be suffering either way. Seems we've got to decide/gamble which will be worse.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 09:18 PM

Kevin, seriously, how could he run the country when he can't remember names, common nouns, years. It's nothing against him personally, and if he were younger and sharper he would probably send trump packing.

I certainly understand not voting for trump, it's time for the media circus to end, it's just a big joke.

I may vote this time, but I'll probably write in a name. Couchgrouch, don't be surprised if you get a single vote, I may very well write in couchgrouch
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Kevin, seriously, how could he run the country when he can't remember names, common nouns, years. It's nothing against him personally, and if he were younger and sharper he would probably send trump packing.
I certainly understand not voting for trump, it's time for the media circus to end, it's just a big joke.
I may vote this time, but I'll probably write in a name. Couchgrouch, don't be surprised if you get a single vote, I may very well write in couchgrouch



It is easy choice -- the first step to healing America is to remove from office trump and his collection of incompetent, corrupt sycophants. Biden is flawed, but he is honest, empathetic and can cross across the aisle to get true bipartisan solutions.

Voting for anyone else is a de facto vote for trump.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 10:11 PM

Sort of a shame: No benefit to hydroxychloroquine

There are still some other studies in progress, so the jury is still undecided. Maybe remdesivir (or some other treatment) will work out, we need something!

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 10:17 PM

But he don't have stock in remdesivir....

Flawed is one thing senile is another.

And no politician is honest aside Abe and maybe Carter
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 10:19 PM

Co-morbidity is the #1 risk factor: A safer way to get america working again
Summary: Folks with obesity, diabetes, hypertension and others are the ones at the greatest risk. Let everyone else go back to work and try and protect the vulnerable as much as possible.
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 10:35 PM

Hey John,

Thanks for the photos. These idiots won''t learn that if this thing is slowed down NOW everyone will be back to work sooner.

Do the math. The infection rate is still in exponential incline. As is the death rate.

Freedom ? Yes, at the price of your family, friends and neighbours.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 10:36 PM

Yes but America most obese country in the world. I remember being a kid in school and watching kids going for seconds and thirds, and two or three desserts. If u could pay u got it.

1 in 3 obese, 1 in 3 high blood presure. High diabetes rates, heart attacks and asthma, who the hell else is left? And they better be prepared to pay high rates to the ones who are healthy. Might soon be a job requirement, like a college degree
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 11:37 PM


Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Yes but America most obese country in the world. I remember being a kid in school and watching kids going for seconds and thirds, and two or three desserts. If u could pay u got it.

1 in 3 obese, 1 in 3 high blood presure. High diabetes rates, heart attacks and asthma, who the hell else is left? And they better be prepared to pay high rates to the ones who are healthy. Might soon be a job requirement, like a college degree


Sad but true.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/21/20 11:44 PM

We live four blocks from a large city park in Houston.
Zoo, running trals, golf course, gardens etc.
There are a lot of people out and very very few are fearful enough to wear a mask. People are still maintaining space but the absence of masks compared with last week seems to be a personal vote that they dont feel a serious threat.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/22/20 02:42 AM

That's cause you don't have the same problem as New York and NJ

Every day for a month the totals of positive tests are part of morning breakfast.

I wouldn't say people are fearful here, but respectful of the threat. Most cooperate everybody wears a mask, and gloves in the stores, that's the law. Outside id say 75% wear masks,and the streets are quiet.

Nice days bring more people out. And it won't be able to be controlled once The weather gets warmer.

But most people in NJ know some body , who died from it. And it can't be made up when you know somebody.





Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/22/20 02:52 AM

This is why you have to respect it

https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...rgest-one-day-jump-in-coronavirus-deaths
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/22/20 12:09 PM

Reporting from Houston/Harris County Texas....
There was one new death yesterday in a geographical area that contains 4.65 million.
I wish it was zero, but it's close.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/22/20 12:23 PM

Silver lining on a dark cloud...
https://apnews.com/726ff63bb43bdca65e41625b1e223040
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/22/20 12:40 PM

Spike in coronavirus cases yesterday. However, I believe (but I am not sure) that the data is misleading. It looks like VA and military data was added in just now?

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/22/20 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Spike in coronavirus cases yesterday. However, I believe (but I am not sure) that the data is misleading. It looks like VA and military data was added in just now?

[Linked Image]


I believe that it was Birx who said the other day, that cases were going to be belatedly added into the count that would bump up the daily totals significantly.
With that going on, I think that the revealing stats are hospitalizations and deaths.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/22/20 01:47 PM

Another telling stat is case/death fatality rate. It is 2.6% for the state fo Texas and 7.39% for the state of New York.
Dont know why. One completely unqualified assumption is that where the virus is more active, it is also more deadly. Another that seems more likely is that Texas has a much lower incidence and a much better ratio of beds and medical personal available to the individual cases.

Just guesses.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/22/20 04:15 PM

Refreshing to see a country placing the responsibilities on the individual. And that's the way it should be. Like this: https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...mic-reporters-notebook/story?id=70286329

John smile
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/22/20 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Refreshing to see a country placing the responsibilities on the individual. And that's the way it should be. Like this: https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...mic-reporters-notebook/story?id=70286329

John smile



The Scandinavian countries have a level of cohesiveness and social consciousness that isnt available in the United States.
I wish that it was. Ultimately I think that our govt is going to have to let people decide for themselves here or the new abnormal will drag on forever.
But the govt doesnt seem to be letting go of the reins yet.

Beginning Monday the Harris County judge is ordering every one who goes outside to wear a mask of some sort. Overkill at this point I think, given 50 or so deaths in 4.65 million people but liberal politicians seem to have adapted an anti-open people first game plan for the sake of being adverse.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/22/20 05:55 PM


In any case, the government can only remove restrictions, they can't open up the economy, only people can: only you can reopen the economy
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/22/20 06:21 PM

Whether the death count is curved or miseleading, does not really matter. Bir x said that we have said all along that the people with pre existing conditions die from covid more than normals.

It's irrelevant really because your not supposed to have covid 19.

In John prines case he didn't go to the hospital because he had cwncer, he went cause he had cough fever and covid symptoms

Covid may not have killed him if he didn't have cancer.

Pneumonia may not have killed my mother if she didn't have copd, but nonetheless pneumonia killed her cause her lungs failed.

They didn't fail before the pneumonia

Eventually you will die from copd something will trigger it.

Eventually prin e would have died from lung cancer, but covid caused it to happen sooner than later

That's the rationale for covid related deaths

Did all the people in these nursing homes die in feburay? something caused it to hsppen, even if they were prone to it
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/22/20 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich

In any case, the government can only remove restrictions, they can't open up the economy, only people can: only you can reopen the economy


Fact. But my favorite bartender is ready to go. What do I tell him? wink
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/22/20 07:30 PM

farting is a good way to ensure social distancing

Funny thing, I was trying to access a debit card, coukdnt remember the password, the operator asked security question, I forgot my answer to "what is your favorite pastime" was farting...

You never think You will need it and a woman would be asking you. She chuckled, so I guess she likes me
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/22/20 11:50 PM

l here is someone with acute observations .. George Carlin At His Crudest Best....so so applicable to the conversation above

Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 01:16 PM

In Houston Harris County this morning, there have been 80 deaths out of a population of 4.65 million. Today is the third consecutive day that it has risen by 1 death per day.

It seems like they could do some random testing similar to the methodology that they set up political polls to get an idea of how many people are in the area with the disease, but I have seen nothing like that.
Hoping.

There was a twisted fascination with this invisible zombie apocalypse for a few days. Like living out a scify movie and all that, but that's over. I want my life back.

Signed

Restless in Houston
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 01:46 PM

What are the restrictions there in Houston? It seems to me that if everyone wore masks and stayed away from crowds, then it should be relatively safe to out and about. Not "normal" but better.

To do surveillance testing, it seems the number of test required would be at least 1% of the population. For the usa as a whole, that would be 3.5 million tests a week. While we might have the lab capacity to do that, the raw materials are just not there according to the folks on the ground (governors, mayors, hospitals, etc). Truthfully there are probably a few testing models out there that do the whole statistically valid number crunching that tell us the right number, but I haven't seen them yet. And, yes, political polling works on the same statistical modeling type stuff. … and no matter what anyone says, the polls from 2016 were accurate within the given margin of error. So while they were "wrong', their modeling accuracy would be good enough applied to our testing needs. Actually, nationally the polls were right (popular vote), but they were off in enough states to allow the electoral college advantage -- but that is a tangent that I should have even brought up (ha, ha).
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 01:55 PM

Trump disagrees with Martin. Opening too much too soon
https://www.newser.com/story/289941...;utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_top
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 02:06 PM

Several coroners from PA are starting to speak out: stating many of the COVID 19 deaths on death certificates aren't Covid-19 at all. Just as I thought all along. It's all about numbers. The more deaths, the bigger the pay-off for the hospitals.

John
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 02:24 PM

Death rate is not clear, but one thing is, you don't want covid 19, even if you are young and healthy. Nobody disputes that.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 02:41 PM

Thanks for that John because those coroners MUST know what they are talking about right???

but but wait....these are the requirements to become a coroner in Pennsylvania:

18 years or older
A resident of your county for at least one year
The most votes in the election
Complete a one-week certification course within six months of your election

That makes them eminently qualified to speak out against those who sign these certificates...primarily medical examiners, doctors, and other medical professionals don't you think? Or maybe it is about re election? Maybe it is about party lines?

And really JLS...this is an absolutely absurd conclusion "It's all about numbers. The more deaths, the bigger the pay-off for the hospitals."

What EXACTLY does this mean in context of COVID? I mean really, if it's all about numbers and related profitability, who the ^*&^* cares what the COD was? Why quibble? All you care about is that the statistics work out in your financial favour ....and does this not mean hospitals actually want more cases where the patient is likely to die? Are there policies in place to look the other way? ...cause if it is all about profits, then it means there is an actual incentive to kill people or let them die.

John I am not actively looking to debunk the things you are saying...but I really can't let some of your stuff go unchallenged.


Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 02:51 PM

Well a coroner SHOULD be able to know what some body died from. That's their job.

But all I could find is an article talking about how we may never be able to know the amount of deaths. But does anybody want it? Having to go to a hospital for it? People are afraid to go to hospital for other things.

This is all I could find about pa coroner's https://www.readingeagle.com/news/l...83ab106-83e0-11ea-b1ae-5735f233e6f6.html
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
What are the restrictions there in Houston? It seems to me that if everyone wore masks and stayed away from crowds, then it should be relatively safe to out and about. Not "normal" but better.

To do surveillance testing, it seems the number of test required would be at least 1% of the population. For the usa as a whole, that would be 3.5 million tests a week. While we might have the lab capacity to do that, the raw materials are just not there according to the folks on the ground (governors, mayors, hospitals, etc). Truthfully there are probably a few testing models out there that do the whole statistically valid number crunching that tell us the right number, but I haven't seen them yet. And, yes, political polling works on the same statistical modeling type stuff. … and no matter what anyone says, the polls from 2016 were accurate within the given margin of error. So while they were "wrong', their modeling accuracy would be good enough applied to our testing needs. Actually, nationally the polls were right (popular vote), but they were off in enough states to allow the electoral college advantage -- but that is a tangent that I should have even brought up (ha, ha).



The County judge is ratcheting up requirements on Monday. As of Monday you cant leave the house without your face covered for 30 days.
Aumming that I understand it correctly.

It is causing some debate. Some of the police say that crime is increasing and they dont have time to chase down people without masks.
We'll see Monday.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 02:59 PM

Only 14% agree with reopening

https://www.businessinsider.com/pol...avirus-social-distancing-measures-2020-4
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Thanks for that John because those coroners MUST know what they are talking about right???

but but wait....these are the requirements to become a coroner in Pennsylvania:

18 years or older
A resident of your county for at least one year
The most votes in the election
Complete a one-week certification course within six months of your election

That makes them eminently qualified to speak out against those who sign these certificates...primarily medical examiners, doctors, and other medical professionals don't you think? Or maybe it is about re election? Maybe it is about party lines?

And really JLS...this is an absolutely absurd conclusion "It's all about numbers. The more deaths, the bigger the pay-off for the hospitals."

What EXACTLY does this mean in context of COVID? I mean really, if it's all about numbers and related profitability, who the ^*&^* cares what the COD was? Why quibble? All you care about is that the statistics work out in your financial favour ....and does this not mean hospitals actually want more cases where the patient is likely to die? Are there policies in place to look the other way? ...cause if it is all about profits, then it means there is an actual incentive to kill people or let them die.

John I am not actively looking to debunk the things you are saying...but I really can't let some of your stuff go unchallenged.




Coroners have no hidden agenda, unlike the hospitals. I trust them more. You stay with your so called experts, I'm sure they're looking into our best interests - ha, ha. Sorry John, I couldn't let your stuff go unchallenged.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Trump disagrees with Martin. Opening too much too soon
https://www.newser.com/story/289941...;utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_top




No he doesn't.
Martin is not saying that anything should be opened up because Martin does not know what stats that the local officials are looking at.
And Martin does not think that he is smarter than Trump's task force.

But Martin knows three things....

1) 50% of this disease is concentrated in New York and the states that border it. That is a matter of concern and also a fact.
2) There will be no safe arrival point where everything goes back to normal on a Monday. If the US economy does not start opening up and goes into a full-on contraction, then the deaths from suicide and stress and dysfunctional behavior will dwarf what the virus would have done.
3 Regardless of what is open, I still have the ability to wear masks and exercise caution.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 03:07 PM

Martin says he wants his life back. America says not yet
https://www.businessinsider.com/pol...avirus-social-distancing-measures-2020-4

But you'll really be posting a lot here once it opens up hey????

Lollllll

Well, all I need is a haircut and one college or professional sport to operate.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Martin says he wants his life back. America says not yet
https://www.businessinsider.com/pol...avirus-social-distancing-measures-2020-4

But you'll really be posting a lot here once it opens up hey????

Lollllll

Well, all I need is a haircut and one college or professional sport to operate.




America has a tough decision to make, with no perfect outcomes.
I don't have a craving for sports but I do want a haircut. smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 04:04 PM

I don't think people realize how lucky we are to be in the technology age.

Imagine a quarantine, say as recently as 1995, we wouldn't have all this information. And really, technology, cell phones, internet, computers, allow for virtual quarantine anyway

Most Americans spend more time online or their phones than they do outside or "doing" anything.

We don't have much to complain about, we could be living through the Spanish flu pandemic, with nothing more than possibly a prototype radio
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 04:47 PM

Mcconnel says New York and New Jersey should file for bankruptcy

These are the leaders of our country

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/senate-majority-leader-suggests-ny-nj-file-for-bankruptcy

Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Mcconnel says New York and New Jersey should file for bankruptcy

These are the leaders of our country

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/senate-majority-leader-suggests-ny-nj-file-for-bankruptcy



Think about all of the people that states pay for goods and services. I have no way of knowing but I suspect that this is what the beginning of a catastrophic contraction looks like.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I don't think people realize how lucky we are to be in the technology age.

Imagine a quarantine, say as recently as 1995, we wouldn't have all this information. And really, technology, cell phones, internet, computers, allow for virtual quarantine anyway

Most Americans spend more time online or their phones than they do outside or "doing" anything.

We don't have much to complain about, we could be living through the Spanish flu pandemic, with nothing more than possibly a prototype radio


The amount of fear and hysteria that does not occur compared to pre-internet and the 1918 epidemic is immeasurable. We are very lucky.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 06:00 PM

But you won't hear a Republican disagree with McConnel even Though it's obvious they're wrong. Your first option is not to force states to declare bankruptcy. Kentucky would be different story

I don't know what bankruptcy would do to help us





Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
But you won't hear a Republican disagree with McConnel even Though it's obvious they're wrong. Your first option is not to force states to declare bankruptcy. Kentucky would be different story

I don't know what bankruptcy would do to help us



My suspicion is that it is a play for leverage. Open versus Not to open...that is the question.
That has become a partisan divide. Trump and McConnell are delivering a message that if the dems want to play contrarian politics with it and insist on keeping the country closed so that they can play the I told you so card WHEN people get the virus....then the dems are on their own to pay for their problems. Just my personal theory. And it's Trump I suspect, McConnell is too gutless to take that stand on his own. Always has been.

The bad news is that a "benefactor" that is 25 trillion in debt already ,makes for a lousy lender. If the US Treasury was a business they would have long since declared bankruptcy.
Most states are in better shape,

Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/23/20 10:31 PM

Somewhat disagree in that the internet is a double edged sword. Full of misinformation & BS & people out looking to make a quick buck out of the misery.

News was also not instantaneous like today & pseudonews and plain BSnews was not as easily disseminated either...AND and mainstream news was more respected.

Absolutely agree with all the good things it brings



Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I don't think people realize how lucky we are to be in the technology age.

Imagine a quarantine, say as recently as 1995, we wouldn't have all this information. And really, technology, cell phones, internet, computers, allow for virtual quarantine anyway

Most Americans spend more time online or their phones than they do outside or "doing" anything.

We don't have much to complain about, we could be living through the Spanish flu pandemic, with nothing more than possibly a prototype radio


The amount of fear and hysteria that does not occur compared to pre-internet and the 1918 epidemic is immeasurable. We are very lucky.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 12:17 AM

All im saying is most people are sitting typing on blogs, facebook, here, texting, conversing with anyone and everyine , video confrencing, playing video games, instant updates, and it appears most are not missing a beat.

Had they gone through the Spanish flu the boredom woulda killed them before the disease did. Of course,they didn't know they were missing anything.

We're a lucky people.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 12:44 AM

We are all safe now!

Having moved on from hydroxychloroquine (before clinical trials are completed), Trump now has two more treatments to do:

1.) Stick a light cable in people's lungs and zap the whole inside lungs with UV light/radiation.
2.) Inject disinfectant (bleach?) into the lungs since disinfectant kills the virus in minutes!

… and you guys talk about Biden being brain addled???????????????

Trump's Next Coronavirus Cure!!
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
We are all safe now!

Having moved on from hydroxychloroquine (before clinical trials are completed), Trump now has two more treatments to do:

1.) Stick a light cable in people's lungs and zap the whole inside lungs with UV light/radiation.
2.) Inject disinfectant (bleach?) into the lungs since disinfectant kills the virus in minutes!

… and you guys talk about Biden being brain addled???????????????

Trump's Next Coronavirus Cure!!


Fake News Kevin.
Trump said that there would be a doctor around somewhere while it was going on. That makes it official. smile
If not a doctor, maybe that pillow guy. Next best thiing.
You need to keep your open minded hat on. wink
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 02:15 AM

A second wave is not fake news though. If we get this AND the flu were fuackedd! And I don't know how we will be more prepared, when we ain't even done with this one and they want ny and nj to file bankruptcy

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xpwuMH8OlVM
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 03:15 AM

That is over reach Kevin...it is not what i heard in your video link

Someone was talking about what was effective against the virus, (humidity, UV light and disinfectants) and Trump was simply speculating how light and some kind of disinfectant (Isopropyl Alcohol was touted as more effective than bleach) might be applied to a body...but he definitely deferrred to science and doctors as to how it might happen.





Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 11:10 AM

Funny how thing change, once upon a time it was against the law to be out in public with a mask on, now it is required to have a mask on while out in public.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 12:39 PM

The only news outlets NOT talking about trump's UV light and disinfectant ideas are Fox news and One America news -- so I guess it didn't happen.

This is what trump always does. Spouts dangerous ideas and then gives himself an out by say might work/might not. Overreach???? He either said it or he didn't.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
The only news outlets NOT talking about trump's UV light and disinfectant ideas are Fox news and One America news -- so I guess it didn't happen.

This is what trump always does. Spouts dangerous ideas and then gives himself an out by say might work/might not. Overreach???? He either said it or he didn't.



I wish that he would not say things like this, but he is not going to stop. And tomorrow Darwin will strike and someone will add Clorox to their coffee.
I watched the video and his statement was odd and ambiguous and better unsaid. But fact is, he did not tell anyone to drink Clorox.

That's the runaway line on it, similar to when he said maybe the Russians have the emails into a hot mic in front of the world. The runaway line on that was that he was actually giving directions to the Russians concerning a felony into a hot mic in front of the world at that moment. People got up on CNN and seriously made that case. Watching Trump's off the cuff remarks catch fire is a fascination.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 01:30 PM

I suppose when news parses every word he says yu could make a mountain out of this...but I did not hear him say anything like "people should"...

"Is there a way we can bring it (disinfectant) inside the body? (he turns to doctor).."it would be interesting to check that"

Now I am not arguing this is not a dumb statement...but it falls far short of saying that this SHOULD be done...he clearly deferred to science
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
I suppose when news parses every word he says yu could make a mountain out of this...but I did not hear him say anything like "people should"...

"Is there a way we can bring it (disinfectant) inside the body? (he turns to doctor).."it would be interesting to check that"

Now I am not arguing this is not a dumb statement...but it falls far short of saying that this SHOULD be done...he clearly deferred to science


It was weird and somewhat inexplicable.
When I heard it, I assumed that it was based on some facet of a conversation that he had behind the scenes and something was lost in translation when he threw it out there off the cuff.

It's Trump. Every time that I think he's got public relations going his way...he starts shooting the horse out from under himself.
Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 07:41 PM

UV light severely burns cells. ( just think of severe sunburn ) Industrial bleach is highly toxic to the body and will kill you.

Both are surface cleaners and are not for human use.

DO NOT drink beach.

cheers,, niteshift
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 08:13 PM

Everything is OK now. Trump said he was talking directly to the "fake news" reporter and being sarcastic in his remarks. Once again he is asking us to not believe what we saw and heard. He is a 2 + 2 = 5 type of guy and is a clear and present danger to the United States,
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 09:45 PM

If that is his explanation, again, I saw something different. He was definitely NOT talking to a reporter...and kept on referring to the off camera people from Homeland Security and Dr Birx ..and even got validation, or at least no blowback

And being sarcastic??? Sheesh. At a serious news conference??Talking about the most serious thing facing the US??????

Not sure whether the statement or explanation is worse
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 09:46 PM

Kevin it doesn't matter who says what, it's your party that matters.

Repubs will acknowledge anything against Hillary or Obama, but not against Trump, likewise Dems will tolerate anything on the left.

Which is why the impeachment was a joke, you'll never get a vote against the party barring a murder video on tv.

So it's pointless, Trump supporters don't care what he says, they vote Republican

The only people that matter are myselfs, who don't vote the same all the time. But there's nothing Biden could do that would make you vote Trump....
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Everything is OK now. Trump said he was talking directly to the "fake news" reporter and being sarcastic in his remarks. Once again he is asking us to not believe what we saw and heard. He is a 2 + 2 = 5 type of guy and is a clear and present danger to the United States,



Trump is chaos and vitreol. But the Trump paradox is that we are not more likely to be in danger (wars) than other presidents but less likely. So I stay focused and appreciative of that fact.
As for the virus, Trump took the action that I would have. I would not have immediately shut down the USA or put the USA in a wartime posture or started cranking out ventilators and tests looking at what he was looking at.
Neither would most anyone else. What I am absolutely certain of is that Obama would not have either.

What I would have done differently than Trump is not acted flippant or belligerent, but it's what he does.


For the record...we have the same decision to make now. Do we keep everything shut down and risk a 25 year economic setback because the virus may kill X number of people?
Is that potential really there or are the "models" over reactive as they were when they predicted up to 250k deaths?
No way to know for sure, but you gotta choose or the situation chooses you.
Tough dilemma.

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 11:05 PM

But he's already downplaying the second wave, much the same response.

If nothing happens he gets off the hook, if it happens he's done
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
But he's already downplaying the second wave, much the same response.

If nothing happens he gets off the hook, if it happens he's done


Whether Trump wins are not is a negligible issue compared to what humanity will have to live through if the economy massively contracts.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 11:11 PM

What I'm saying is, you agree he was slow and a denier, if he does it again, are you going to say he is a moron?
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
What I'm saying is, you agree he was slow and a denier, if he does it again, are you going to say he is a moron?



No. Because he is not a moron. If anything, he is a sociopath.
And no, when it came time for the rubber to meet the road , I think Trump did as well as anyone would have..
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/24/20 11:38 PM

So the same epidemic would not phase you?
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 12:14 AM

How do you conclude that from what I wrote?
I don't dismiss this epidemic as a real threat or like having to live through it.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 12:37 AM

I conclude it because your being very generous with Trump, despite admitting he made a huge pr mistake by denying it, and since then look what happened to our country.

My feeling is if the same exact thing happens again, with second wave, and Trump downplaying and not wanting to shut down the country soon enough, and we end up with the same scenario, you still won't fault Trump?

Posted By: Moosesong

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by Everett Adams
Funny how thing change, once upon a time it was against the law to be out in public with a mask on, now it is required to have a mask on while out in public.


It is unusual indeed. I had to go to the bank 4 weeks ago and was already wearing a mask back then . I left the mask in the car,and was about to enter the bank. inside the window I saw that two people inside had masks. So I went back to the car and got mine.

I bet the tellers would still freak out if someone entered wearing a ski mask
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 01:28 AM

At the sportsbook and racetrack you had to take off your hat as you approach a window or machine, they have cameras on your face. I'm wondering how it will work when we come out of this. They employ people who do nothing but tell people to take off their hats and sunglasses.

Now, they might require you to wear a mask, and gloves to touch the machines.

I have a feeling that even once the restrictions are lifted, things won't be the same for a while. Who will get on a plane for at least a year?
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 10:40 AM

He who has never said or done something stupid in their life, cast the first stone.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I conclude it because your being very generous with Trump, despite admitting he made a huge pr mistake by denying it, and since then look what happened to our country.

My feeling is if the same exact thing happens again, with second wave, and Trump downplaying and not wanting to shut down the country soon enough, and we end up with the same scenario, you still won't fault Trump?



It is my belief based on 67 years of watching what politicians say versus what they actually do, that...the damage that was done by this disease to our country was going to happen to the country regardless of who was president. I doubt that any president would have looked at the information available to Trump from WHO and Fauci, and shut the economy down and started mass manufacturing ventilators. That includes;

"Falling back into xenophobia" Joe
"Come to China Town" Nancy.

Those partisan dismissals and ploys make it clear that they would not have chosen the perfect path for this. And the perverse reality is that, had Trump chosen the perfect path, in an alternate universe assuming the disease would have been largely avoided, he would have been labelled by the same partisans as a paranoid schizophrenic whose erratic phobias caused him to destroy the economy in order to avoid a threat that never existed.

When the peril clearly revealed itself Trump immediately sought to contain it with exactly what most people would have done.
And went into a marshal law mode.

His failing is PR. What he said is a frggin mess, not what he did.

Now the dilemma presents itself again. The onslaught of the disease has been blunted, but the onslaught of an economic depression is just getting in gear. That will kill people too. Whatever is chosen to do will be horribly imperfect because when a bomb drops on you, things get blown up.



Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 01:51 PM

I agree that other presidents wouldn't have done much different. But now we are in a position of knowing. If he ignores it AGAIN, like he seems to wants to, there would be no benefit of the doubt. You wouldn't be able to say" hey well nobody knows what to do in a once in a lifetime pandemic" because we will know what to do.

But my main point is, it's not going to matter to trump supporters. You already said you don't likevmany things he does or says, but your still gonna vote for him.

Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I agree that other presidents wouldn't have done much different. But now we are in a position of knowing. If he ignores it AGAIN, like he seems to wants to, there would be no benefit of the doubt. You wouldn't be able to say" hey well nobody knows what to do in a once in a lifetime pandemic" because we will know what to do.

But my main point is, it's not going to matter to trump supporters. You already said you don't likevmany things he does or says, but your still gonna vote for him.



At the outset this was an unimaginable world event. We are living out a SciFY movie and it sucks. WHO missed the opening cues and appears to have propagandized them. Fauci missed them (video). And Trump missed them. Now there is a new dilemma but everyone knows that the unimaginable actually happened so whatever occurs wont be a replay of January and February.

At this point if Trump ignores the past events, ignores his advisors, and unilaterally drills the country down into a bad outcome...it will be time for him to go. The problem is what the dems offer as a replacement.

But, with so much power rightfully delegated to 50 governors, I dont think that Trump can make a unilateral decision. His admin is in a support role to the governors who are calling the shots and most are doing a very good job.

I try to watch Cuomo's daily briefings. In my insignificant opinion, his briefing and the points that he hit on yesterday was excellent. He is the governor of the main state in a fairly small region that bears 50% of the disease and I don't think anyone could be doing a better job.
The point being, Trump is not calling all of the shots on this.










Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 02:16 PM

Lol, I know he's not calling the shots on this, but he will call the shots on the funding needing to control it if it happens again. I think even to deny a second wave alone is dangerous. After all we went through, you cant .

Anyway for most fixed party people, they will never vote the other way, they will convince themselves its right to vote the same way

Sometimes partisanship is a matter of voting simply by the label. Most people I talk to don't know what any candidate stands for.

Other times it's a Republican mindset or Dem mindset, where they just see things differently. Mostly though it's the former
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Lol, I know he's not calling the shots on this, but he will call the shots on the funding needing to control it if it happens again. I think even to deny a second wave alone is dangerous. After all we went through, you cant .

Anyway for most fixed party people, they will never vote the other way, they will convince themselves its right to vote the same way

Sometimes partisanship is a matter of voting simply by the label. Most people I talk to don't know what any candidate stands for.

Other times it's a Republican mindset or Dem mindset, where they just see things differently. Mostly though it's the former


The country has a hard divide. People sort out liberal versus conservative. It appears to me that underlying that is actually people-like-me versus people-not-like-me.
The virus has become the only issue. but the economy is coming into big play. As the shut-down lingers and people run out of money and become desperate in large numbers, then societal destabilization begins. So there are many other issues to consider when voting for president. And then there are the usual issues beyond the pandemic such as immigration and job growth that figure into casting a vote. I've no idea what November looks like.

As for Trump...there are too many voices in play now. 50 governors. medical professionals etc. Trump has proven that he will back down and defer to his advisors when his task force draws a line and tells him that they wont support him. e.g. Georgia. I don't think that he will be denying a second wave possibility. But New York and South Dakota will have two different experiences. The second wave will not occur everywhere.

Tough circumstance.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 02:58 PM

He already denied a second wave, does this sound like the response of a leader who is in the middle of the once in a century pandemic? No it sounds more like a guy who makes fun of the post office.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xpwuMH8OlVM

It's clear he's going to get a pass from you no matter what. I'm not judging it, I'm just saying this is how politics work. It's party, not person, it's party not ideas or results.

Btw, when I see and hear Cuomo I can't get past his arrogance, it appears he likes himself alot.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
He already denied a second wave, does this sound like the response of a leader who is in the middle of the once in a century pandemic? No it sounds more like a guy who makes fun of the post office.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xpwuMH8OlVM

It's clear he's going to get a pass from you no matter what. I'm not judging it, I'm just saying this is how politics work. It's party, not person, it's party not ideas of results.


How is it that you conclude that Trump gets a pass from me no matter what?
You are not reading my responses to you. You can't be.
The one of us locked into partisanship seems to be you.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 03:14 PM

Because you will fall back on "I don't think obama or hillary would have handled it diffently" forever. And you'll probably say the same thing , if a second wave hits.

You wrote "I don't think that he will be denying a second wave possibility"

Right after I showed the video of him denying it. He IS denying it and WILL
Deny it. He encouraged protestors.... The bleach talk....But he's still ok
?

I don't think obama or Hillary would do better, but that doesn't mean.trump is doing good. I didn't vote for either of them, I look at the individual, I didn't like either of them
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 03:34 PM

I am not going to drill down into an inane conversation.


I think that Cuomo is doing an excellent job. A dem.
He dismantled McConnell and I thought that he was right.
I think the governors are doing very good jobs. Many are dems
If I were to pick the worst two governors on this, it would be FLA and GA. repubs

You seem to want to box me into where I will say that I am not voting for Trump if he does X...as you deem X to be.
And because I wont say "absolutely yes" that proves your well-known point that people are partisan.

I have no idea what the USA and the world and Trump are going to look like on Nov 2.
So far the virus has been contained to 50K+ deaths instead of 100-250K projected only a couple of weeks ago.

There is a lot that has not happened yet. As I watch and wonder I am not focused on voting.
I am focused on what gets done or not done to prevent the spread of the virus and decimation of the economy and our lives.
TO ME the antics of Trump and the anti-Trump sideshow that follows him around like a starving puppy are both regrettable but not real important right now.

Tomorrow the County requires me to wear a mask if I leave my house. That is important.
There is some restaurant on the west side that is defying the governor and opening up for business declaring the constitution as justification. How that gets handled is important..

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 04:30 PM

When I say voting, I mean your support. You haven't wavered from trump. Your responses to kevin still show support for trump. And his show support for NOT trump.

When I see articles written, the staunch republicans will bring up Hillary and obama who have nothing to do with it, just to deflect trump.

Plenty of anti trumpeters too. But it makes me wonder if we all live on the same planet, and all hear and see the same things.

Whether your talking about Nov 2 or n ot, based on this entire thread I know who you're voting for. And what you think of trump

You probably don't like trump, but support republicans, you are from texas....
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
When I say voting, I mean your support. You haven't wavered from trump. Your responses to kevin still show support for trump. And his show support for NOT trump.

When I see articles written, the staunch republicans will bring up Hillary and obama who have nothing to do with it, just to deflect trump.

Plenty of anti trumpeters too. But it makes me wonder if we all live on the same planet, and all hear and see the same things.

Whether your talking about Nov 2 or n ot, based on this entire thread I know who you're voting for. And what you think of trump

You probably don't like trump, but support republicans, you are from texas....


I am more cynical and distrusting of political entities than that.

I don't like Trump the person. Never liked that show and when he first started running I said to my wife..."that obnoxious bstard whose trademark is "you fired" is running for president. I can't believe that sht."

But a big issue for me is border control and containment of the drug cartels and the hopeless narco state that Mexico has become... on the other side of the border. My second big issue is unending foreign wars in the middle east. I despise them. As pugnacious as Trump is personally...he hasn't figured out a reason to invade Iran since he got in.
So for me, Trump's pettiness and obnoxiousness are non-concerns COMPARED to those two issues alone.

There are limits to the chaos that a person can take from anyone, but when it comes time to vote, there are several issues to look at. Democrats have made it their platform policy to disregard the wants of people like me. So, given many issues and events yet to occur, I cannot say that I will ever vote for Biden because Trump has not ACTUALLY screwed up his response to a recurrence of the virus.

But I tell you what, get Biden replaced by Cuomo and get Cuomo to commit solidly to border enforcement with walls, avoidance of foreign wars, capitalism, support of law enforcement, lower taxes, conservative SCOTUS appointments ???
And I will vote for him. He deserves much respect for the job that he is doing on the pandemic and presents his POV very clearly.




Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 06:12 PM

"But I tell you what, get Biden replaced by Cuomo and get Cuomo to commit solidly to border enforcement with walls, avoidance of foreign wars, capitalism, support of law enforcement, lower taxes, conservative SCOTUS appointments ???
And I will vote for him. "

Trump isn't all those things either. Not even close, in fact one of the problems with the aid is, they won't be able to pay law enforcement and firemen. I'm pro law enforcement too.

But id say the majority of repubs, even if the Dem campaigned with everything you asked for, he wouldn't be believed and not supported, for the one reason, he's not Republican.

People have age old stereotypes of the parties, and I do wonder why we don't see conservative Dems and more liberal Repubs, I guess it's just you either think one way or anither.

But I also think the vote is meaningless because so few actually know what a candidate wants to do, and also most can't do what they wanted to do once in anyway.

But if you believe in the wall, do you think that will stop drug cartels who have weapons greater than the Mexican army? And have ships, better than their navy, and have militant soldiers more loyal than an army.

Kind of makes a wall look like a sling shot. And these same cartels will parlay the bus into getting immigrants here for a fee.

I agree with border security but a wall is sillly



Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 06:29 PM

I said all that I want to. I suggest this thread returns to the virus.
This is continuing in a circle.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 06:43 PM

You said a lot of conflicting things, once somebody calls you on it you come up with I've said want to say gag....

I suggest the virus thread should close, and we get back to music
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
You said a lot of conflicting things, once somebody calls you on it you come up with I've said want to say gag....

I suggest the virus thread should close, and we get back to music


I said no conflicting things.And I have a thought-out and valid viewpoint, though maybe not yours. You are not connecting the dots on it..
So there is no point in having a debate that comes back on itself over and over.
I've done that in the past for sport but it's lost its' appeal.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 07:32 PM

This thread has gone far enough, I feel like I'm going around in circles here, I think we should get back to music
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/25/20 08:09 PM

Well at least by seems to be getting better, nj not so much, although it seems to be moving down to do it jersey now away from my and towards philly
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/26/20 11:42 AM

From an outsider looking in, I didn't think much of Trump before the election, but since his term in office I've grown to appreciate him, not like him, but appreciate his efforts to fulfill his election promises, in spite of every effort of the Democrats to block his every move. If I could have voted in 2016, which I could not, I don't know if I would have voted for him or not, but seeing how he performed over the past four years and seeing how the Democrats have performed over the past four years, I would vote for him in 2020. To me, the Democrats are a bunch of spoiled brats who lost the election but won't accept that fact, they are doing their best to paralyze the country so nothing gets done just so they can get back in power. May God help you if they do.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/26/20 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by Everett Adams
From an outsider looking in, I didn't think much of Trump before the election, but since his term in office I've grown to appreciate him, not like him, but appreciate his efforts to fulfill his election promises, in spite of every effort of the Democrats to block his every move. If I could have voted in 2016, which I could not, I don't know if I would have voted for him or not, but seeing how he performed over the past four years and seeing how the Democrats have performed over the past four years, I would vote for him in 2020. To me, the Democrats are a bunch of spoiled brats who lost the election but won't accept that fact, they are doing their best to paralyze the country so nothing gets done just so they can get back in power. May God help you if they do.


LOL Everett, you aren't a student of recent US history. The republican party was known as the "Party of No" during the Obama admin. They cared only about fiscal restraint which led to "Budget sequestration" which meant across the board budget cuts. Which doesn't seem like a bad idea, until you realize that the funding for the national stockpile and national defense got cut, too.

Here are a couple of articles to read, if you are interested
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2018/08/16/christians-supporting-trump-arent-christians/
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2018/08/28/the-moral-confusion-of-trump-christians/
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/26/20 01:32 PM

Well at least Everette doesn't like to take shots at the U.S. Like other Canadians on these forums have. Some Canadians love to criticize America,, even though we don't charge them rent to live upstairs from us.

Dems at least used to be, are for the working man, although that has changed, they are more now for the poor and lower class, and get voted this way.

Republicans are for the rich and upper class, and that his why Trump won. He saw that if pandered to the middle class of working class he had a chance.

But spolied brats? The Donald has been rich and snobby since he was born. Never once knew what it was like to be middle class, and suddenly he is representing us. His younger son has his own floor at the Trump Tower

No Dem I know is that spoiled, https://www.famefocus.com/celebrity/the-lavish-life-of-barron-trump-hes-really-just-a-mini-donald/
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/26/20 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Originally Posted by Everett Adams
From an outsider looking in, I didn't think much of Trump before the election, but since his term in office I've grown to appreciate him, not like him, but appreciate his efforts to fulfill his election promises, in spite of every effort of the Democrats to block his every move. If I could have voted in 2016, which I could not, I don't know if I would have voted for him or not, but seeing how he performed over the past four years and seeing how the Democrats have performed over the past four years, I would vote for him in 2020. To me, the Democrats are a bunch of spoiled brats who lost the election but won't accept that fact, they are doing their best to paralyze the country so nothing gets done just so they can get back in power. May God help you if they do.


LOL Everett, you aren't a student of recent US history. The republican party was known as the "Party of No" during the Obama admin. They cared only about fiscal restraint which led to "Budget sequestration" which meant across the board budget cuts. Which doesn't seem like a bad idea, until you realize that the funding for the national stockpile and national defense got cut, too.

Here are a couple of articles to read, if you are interested
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2018/08/16/christians-supporting-trump-arent-christians/
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2018/08/28/the-moral-confusion-of-trump-christians/



Kevin

You lead with LOL and then google propagandaRus.com and cite that as proof of your position. As if that guy actually knows anything about life in ancient Rome.
You are going to cause me to laugh so hard that it weakens my immune system and gives me the covid19.

Hypocrisy is standard in humanity. Liberals are every bit as hypocritical as conservatives. Obama lovers are every bit as hypocritical as Trumpsters..

The real underlying agenda is not actually about staying perfectly aligned to the tenets of Christianity or any other religion. That is a secondary concern.
The overriding agenda is

people like me VERSUS people not like me

Beyond that any set of beliefs can be adapted or modified or selectively disregarded to fit "people-like-me."
That is true of all groups, not just hypocritical Trumpsters who thump bibles.

it's akin to a rule of behavior.
Forget what someone is saying. Focus on what they are feeling if you want to know why they are acting erratically.






Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/26/20 02:58 PM

I posted a similar video on Face Crook. They squashed it. Yes, this is all about control. And they're making fools out of us all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNnlSP7mWek&feature=youtu.be

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/26/20 03:51 PM

Laughing is good for immune system
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/26/20 04:04 PM

John S

What are you doing back over here with the negative people?


I can't understand why or how these guys arrive at their philosophy, but here is what I see...

There are 15,000 to 80,000 deaths in the USA from the flu every year and we mostly just go about our lives...maybe get a flu shot. I personally never have. If I get the flu I let my body fight it and drink gatorade. Usually does not last very long.

We are approaching 60k deaths from Covid19 with the country largely shut down and people sequestered.

Connecting the dots on what will happen if 330 million people go back to their usual schedules and concerns is easy and scary.
There will be a die off. A culling of the herd.

Is that acceptable? Natural?
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/26/20 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Laughing is good for immune system


Unless you laugh so hard that you have to go to the emergency room.
Then it depletes your immune system.
I can back that up with videos from the internet.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/26/20 04:35 PM

Probably hyperventilation

But you can die from drinking too much water too
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/26/20 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
John S

What are you doing back over here with the negative people?


I can't understand why or how these guys arrive at their philosophy, but here is what I see...

There are 15,000 to 80,000 deaths in the USA from the flu every year and we mostly just go about our lives...maybe get a flu shot. I personally never have. If I get the flu I let my body fight it and drink gatorade. Usually does not last very long.

We are approaching 60k deaths from Covid19 with the country largely shut down and people sequestered.

Connecting the dots on what will happen if 330 million people go back to their usual schedules and concerns is easy and scary.
There will be a die off. A culling of the herd.

Is that acceptable? Natural?


Yes, I came back to spread good news. Though people aren't as willing to accept good news.

"We are approaching 60k deaths from Covid19 with the country largely shut down and people sequestered" Martin And very well could be why there are more deaths. Quarantining is a health hazard in and of itself.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/26/20 05:47 PM

John S, I wonder how fiverr is faring, it's perfectly built for quarantine, I was pumped before this started. somehow I started paying all attention to the news, and putting the song touching on hold

I think this week, I'm gonna put more time to it
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/26/20 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
John S, I wonder how fiverr is faring, it's perfectly built for quarantine, I was pumped before this started. somehow I started paying all attention to the news, and putting the song touching on hold

I think this week, I'm gonna put more time to it


I'm redoing a song that I wrote 20 years ago after pulmonary clots threatened my wife's life. Has relevance for current events. Working it up with a recording house in Nashville over the internet. It is a nice distraction.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/26/20 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
John S, I wonder how fiverr is faring, it's perfectly built for quarantine, I was pumped before this started. somehow I started paying all attention to the news, and putting the song touching on hold

I think this week, I'm gonna put more time to it


I've done about a dozen tracks with Josh Zook (sax man). They're still jivin'.

John smile
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/26/20 10:24 PM

John Pavlovitz, so who does he vote for. You only have two choices, if both are evil, which choice do you choose. Evil one or evil 2.or I guess you don't vote at all, which is not good for democracy. You weigh the two and choose which is the lesser evil.

I never had much interest in American politics until Obama came along. I thought Obama showed promise for the little people in giving them Obama care to those that had no health insurance. I'm not sure how well that worked out. He looked good to me in his first term but on the last of his presidency I thought he lost a lot of his shine. He seemed to turn against Christianity in favour of Muslimism , much like our prime minister has done. Obama gave a lot of money to Iran to stop making the bomb, how did that go, did they stop or use the money to speed it up. America was formed with Christian principles, and no other country has been blessed greater than the USA. But as you turn away from God, as you have over the years, that blessing is being lifted, and God 's hedge of protection is being removed. You still have a chance to turn back to God and ask forgiveness, and He will hear from Heaven and heal your lands.

The bible says man's heart is evil, so governments formed by men are going to have the tendency to be evil, taking care of themselves and their friends while in power. The longer they are in power, the eviler they get until the people throw them out of power and give the other side a chance. At least that is how democracy works, dictatorships is a big step below democracy, they stay in power until a civil war overthrows them. I don't know how much longer we'll have democracy, there are powerful people pushing for world government and I believe that will be a dictatorship of the worst kind. Enjoy your liberties while you can
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/26/20 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Everett Adams
John Pavlovitz, so who does he vote for. You only have two choices, if both are evil, which choice do you choose. Evil one or evil 2.or I guess you don't vote at all, which is not good for democracy. You weigh the two and choose which is the lesser evil. ...

How about when only one of the choices is evil -- does that make it easier? Or when you know one is evil and you don't know about the other?

Originally Posted by Everett Adams
You still have a chance to turn back to God and ask forgiveness, and He will hear from Heaven and heal your lands.

What about when one candidate says he has nothing to ask forgiveness for? So he never apologies for anything.....
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/27/20 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Originally Posted by Everett Adams
John Pavlovitz, so who does he vote for. You only have two choices, if both are evil, which choice do you choose. Evil one or evil 2.or I guess you don't vote at all, which is not good for democracy. You weigh the two and choose which is the lesser evil. ...

How about when only one of the choices is evil -- does that make it easier? Or when you know one is evil and you don't know about the other?

Originally Posted by Everett Adams
You still have a chance to turn back to God and ask forgiveness, and He will hear from Heaven and heal your lands.

What about when one candidate says he has nothing to ask forgiveness for? So he never apologies for anything.....


Unfortunately, never apologizing is rational. it is what a business owner knows.
If you have ever been sued by an ambulance chaser then you know that one of the worst things that you can ever do is apologize or say that you are sorry either publicly or in writing.
Your enemies wont compliment your humanity, they will bludgeon you with your apology. Every single time.
Fact of life and business.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/27/20 12:12 AM

I didn't vote last time. I regret it, but I had family and friends on both sides of the fence. I didn't like Hillary's track record and I didn't think the host of apprentice would win, when his resume included this, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5NsrwH9I9vE

I was wrong for not voting, I believe because that's a sacred part of a
democracy. Not that I think I should pick one, but I should be counted for showing up and voting for some body. In new jersey it's gonna be Democrat most of the time anyway, so even if I wanted trump, he wouldn't win New Jersey

But I will vote this time, just probably not for either
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/27/20 02:00 AM

Just learned of another schoolmate who died from covid. I don't know him, apparently he was two years younger. 50 years old, same high school
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/27/20 01:09 PM

Good quote for today: "To find out who rules you, find out who you're not allowed to criticize." - Voltaire

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/27/20 01:36 PM

I feel bad for him and his family too John.
Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/27/20 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Good quote for today: "To find out who rules you, find out who you're not allowed to criticize." - Voltaire

John smile

That wasn't Voltaire, John. His one liners tend to be more cerebral than that. smile It appears to have originated with a white supremacist militia founder in 1993.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/27/20 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Good quote for today: "To find out who rules you, find out who you're not allowed to criticize." - Voltaire

John smile

That wasn't Voltaire, John. His one liners tend to be more cerebral than that. smile It appears to have originated with a white supremacist militia founder in 1993.


Then they stole it from Voltaire Gavin. Second Voltaire quote here: https://www.ranker.com/list/a-list-of-famous-voltaire-quotes/reference Even if it's questionable, I'm sure someone said it before 1993.

Best, John smile
Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/27/20 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Good quote for today: "To find out who rules you, find out who you're not allowed to criticize." - Voltaire

John smile

That wasn't Voltaire, John. His one liners tend to be more cerebral than that. smile It appears to have originated with a white supremacist militia founder in 1993.


Then they stole it from Voltaire Gavin. Second Voltaire quote here: https://www.ranker.com/list/a-list-of-famous-voltaire-quotes/reference Even if it's questionable, I'm sure someone said it before 1993.

Best, John smile


Someone posting it at a site like that doesn't make it real. It's not questionable - it's not Voltaire. I'm a bit of a fan of Voltaire and feel the need to stick up for my old pal LOL. People are always making up things and attributing them to him or misusing his sayings for purposes that would have appalled him.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/27/20 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Good quote for today: "To find out who rules you, find out who you're not allowed to criticize." - Voltaire

John smile

That wasn't Voltaire, John. His one liners tend to be more cerebral than that. smile It appears to have originated with a white supremacist militia founder in 1993.


Then they stole it from Voltaire Gavin. Second Voltaire quote here: https://www.ranker.com/list/a-list-of-famous-voltaire-quotes/reference Even if it's questionable, I'm sure someone said it before 1993.

Best, John smile


Someone posting it at a site like that doesn't make it real. It's not questionable - it's not Voltaire. I'm a bit of a fan of Voltaire and feel the need to stick up for my old pal LOL. People are always making up things and attributing them to him or misusing his sayings for purposes that would have appalled him.




I tend to agree with you on that Gavin. Though I find it hard to believe someone didn't come up with it till 1993.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/27/20 04:14 PM

It's a silly quite anyway. Who needs to find out who rules you? If you don't know, probably nobody does
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/27/20 04:54 PM

I'm seeing this big picture.

It is unlikely Voltaire because he knew exactly who it was that ruled France in his day.... His writings often got him into trouble.

Given the content of the phrase, whoever it was (not doubting it was the unnamed militia founder), lived in a time and place where those who wielded the real power was not as obvious

And Gavin, years ago I read Will and Ariel Durant's History of Civilization from cover to cover...One volume was entitled The Age of Voltaire. Nothing like speaking to your influence as having an "Age" named after you.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/27/20 05:08 PM

Voltaire and the Neo Nazi party aside...the quote has face value.

The problem with quotes like that is that they get adopted by miscellaneous tin foil hat societies for validation and legitimization. And then there is the fact that they are often incorrectly attributed.
Such is the University of the Internet and Meme Institute of Technology.

In related news, here is another curtain rolled back on a conspiracy.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipP6DBLPs3SFXWYscROhf-edBeSd9k3beA2iMD9d
Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/27/20 05:36 PM

Voltaire is like Shakespeare. Amongst all the genuine quotations are a bunch of other things that get attributed to him. In the case of Voltaire, it is often to add a feeling of learning, wisdom and humanity, sometimes to things that have none of those qualities.

The first bogus Voltairism I encountered was just for fun. When I was a kid, my dad gave me this puzzle to solve. It was supposedly a note sent by Frederick the Great of Prussia to Voltaire and Voltaire's reply.

--P -- à ci
venez 100


and the reply: G a

The answer to the puzzle was

Venez souper à Sans Soucis

J'ai grand appetit


In English - Come to supper at Sans Soucis (the name of Frederick's palace) All the French you need to know is that the word for under is sous, pronounced soo, like the first syllable of souper, that the French pronunciation of the letter P is pronounced pay, and that the word 100 is cent, pronounced the same as Sans.

I am hungry (I have a big appetite)

Big G, small a. G is pronounced like jay and a is pronounced ah.

I can't believe I just wrote all that. Having gone to the trouble, I'm going to post it anyway smile
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/27/20 05:59 PM

LOL Love the story Gavin

Visited Sans Souci maybe a dozen or so years ago. Stands in a very large park that was part of the imperial grounds in Potsdam, just to the south West of Berlin. There are also other palaces on the grounds. And they remember Voltaire visiting according to the pamphlets and memorial plaques. Also noted Frederick liked his hunting dogs better than his wife smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/27/20 07:40 PM

Not sure what the he'll it means, and how it supports any argument.

Yeah, you can criticize the lockdown?

AND get overruled by government, so it appears the phrase is meaningless
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/28/20 12:28 AM

The pandemic is not real, it's all a hoax...

I think all you have to do Is talk to people on the front lines.

https://www.newser.com/story/290144...;utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_top
Posted By: Moosesong

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/28/20 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Good quote for today: "To find out who rules you, find out who you're not allowed to criticize." - Voltaire

John smile

Thank you John, you have described Trump to a T. Just ask the dozens of former FBI agents, and white house staff members that are gone because they criticized Trump. Not to mention (i'm guessing hundreds) that bite their tongue.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/28/20 02:04 PM

Corona truthers...wow oh oh oh who oh oh
What are they good for...absolutely nothin, say it again.....

https://www.newser.com/story/290111/they-went-for-a-gorgeous-hike-the-next-day-singer-fell-ill.html

Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/28/20 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Corona truthers...wow oh oh oh who oh oh
What are they good for...absolutely nothin, say it again.....

https://www.newser.com/story/290111/they-went-for-a-gorgeous-hike-the-next-day-singer-fell-ill.html



Anyone who can look at the NY region and Northern Italy and come away thinking that this is no worse than the flu...baffles me.
Anyone who can look at 50K plus deaths and climbing nothwithstanding mitigation...baffles me.
But there is more and more of that coming on every day. And it is often a self-righteous beligerence. Regions are very different, the upper midwest is not involved in a pandemic...other than meat processing plants? Nonetheless, the disease can be transmit easily, hang in the air and be lethal....anywhere.

Underlying some people's opinion seems to be Darwin. The strong rightfully survive. The weak rightfully don't. Even if the weak might have lived another 20 years had the disease not struck them.
I don't want to be a Darwinian stat. I'm going to watch carefully and tread out into deeper water cautiously.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/28/20 02:56 PM

They think hospitals, doctors, families and the media are lying. A lot of it goes back to trump "fake news" comments.

People are gung ho to support the fake news theory, which is a problem, but in their zeal to believe the fake news theory, they dismiss anything that stand in its way, including life lost and suffering.

They'd rather attack anyone who claims to be affected by the disease than feel empathy for them.

It's also the internet has made everybody an expert on everything, too little information is dangerous, but too much is worse.

Posted By: Mark Kaufman

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/28/20 03:47 PM

Came back to see if I was hysterical or not about this Wuhan Flu seasonal ailment thing. So far, US Covid-19 deaths equal the amount of Americans killed in the Vietnam War.

Whatever.

But that said, even with all the mitigation, the deaths are still climbing like a hockey stick graph, and even Trump knows that his impulse to immediately allow people to spread or not spread the disease, free as patriots, is foolish. He'll do it soon enough anyway, but no one and nothing is holding him back right now but his own recognition of the severity of the problem.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/28/20 04:32 PM

A guy named Diller was on FACE THE DNC Sunday and he made a lot of sense.

Hopefully getting his gist right......he said that we need to begin opening the country back up and accept that it is going to be "messy."
That does not mean to be imprudent. It just means that there is no perfect way out of this horribly imperfect circumstance.
But we can't afford to sit in abeyance and do nothing.

My advice...govern yourself in whatever ways seems correct for you.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/28/20 04:56 PM

Total ripoff post..I think credit goes to Andy Borowitz of The New Yorker. I also believe this is in response to Mr Trump denying any responsibility for people thinking ingesting bleach might be the answer...and flooding poison control centers with calls, ...and by the hurried response from doctors, scientists and bleach and cleanser makers warning people...but it could be more general that that


Start of blatant ripoff

What follows is not news. It's SATIRE. Big difference. You will probably find it amusing. You may not. But remember: It's just SATIRE.

Trump Blames Plummeting Poll Numbers on People Paying Attention When He Talks

WASHINGTON, D.C. (The Borowitz Report)—Calling it a “disgraceful situation,” Donald J. Trump on Monday blamed his sinking poll numbers on people paying attention when he talks.

Noting that his approval rating has plummeted since he began holding coronavirus briefings, he said, “There are a lot of people out there who are listening to things I say and basing their opinions on them, and I think it’s very sad.”

In addition to people paying attention when he talks, Trump said that he was being “treated very unfairly by people who remember what I say.”

“People are listening to what I say one day and comparing it to something I said on a different day,” he said. “These are very sick and terrible people.”

Trump also lashed out at the pollsters themselves, who, he alleged, are “doing a hit job on me” by seeking the opinions of people who listened to things he said.

“The fact that they’re talking to people who have listened to me proves how crooked and rigged these polls are,” he said. “People who haven’t listened to me think I’m doing great.”

Trump said that, if people persist in listening to him, he may stop talking altogether. “I think that’s a really good plan,” Trump said. “Dr. Fauci suggested it to me.”



Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/28/20 05:53 PM

Marty, I concur with the idea of having to open up, once the weather gets warmer they won't get compliance anyway....but, it's great to say let people be responsible for themselves, but I just got back from grocery store and had people breathing down my back on line, no social distancing. They do have masks but they apparently don't do much.

Point is im dependent on everyone else. If I wear a mask and you dont, it helps you more than me, cause they don't stop you from getting it.

You also can't have a bar open and expect people to stay 6 feet away.

It's like smoking, you can't smoke in a public place because your decision affects everyone else, not just yourself.

I think I one way would be to get people to sign a waiver saying if they get sick, only they are responsible. Then they might realize what it actually means

It's very hard to fathom something when you don't see it or know anybody who has gotten it. I don't know many but I do know or heard of a few.

People don't realize they can catch it tommorow.

Remember when you were a kid you truly believed you would never die one day. You can't know about something until it happens or comes close.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/28/20 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Marty, I concur with the idea of having to open up, once the weather gets warmer they won't get compliance anyway....but, it's great to say let people be responsible for themselves, but I just got back from grocery store and had people breathing down my back on line, no social distancing. They do have masks but they apparently don't do much.

Point is im dependent on everyone else. If I wear a mask and you dont, it helps you more than me, cause they don't stop you from getting it.

You also can't have a bar open and expect people to stay 6 feet away.

It's like smoking, you can't smoke in a public place because your decision affects everyone else, not just yourself.

I think I one way would be to get people to sign a waiver saying if they get sick, only they are responsible. Then they might realize what it actually means

It's very hard to fathom something when you don't see it or know anybody who has gotten it. I don't know many but I do know or heard of a few.

People don't realize they can catch it tommorow.

Remember when you were a kid you truly believed you would never die one day. You can't know about something until it happens or comes close.



Same experience as me. Am trying to get back out more and open up my own life some.
The County judge has made it mandatory to leave the house wearing a mask. I have a respirator. I look like a doughboy in a trench or Bane (Batman) or Hannibal Lechter..

Filled up with gas this afternoon at a convenience store filling station.
Saw about 12 people while filling up.
2 or 3 had masks.
A Houston Police Dept vehicle pulled up and a cop got out of the vehicle and walked in to the convenience store with no mask. WTF?

Went to Home Depot.
They require masks.
Most people were compliant.
Except for one of the clerks that worked there. Old White dude. No mask. Am thinking WTF?
Stood in line to check out. Dude behind me no mask. Not 6 feet back.

Dont know what to make of anything.

ps...With regard to masks...The masks that most people have are only good for cutting down the spray field outward from their mouth. Even if it is N95, if there is flow around the mask, the virus can get into the inward flow of air and bypass the mask..

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/28/20 10:21 PM

The grocery store has had lines outside, but They still can't get the distance down when it comes to the registers.

You should have seen the hoards of people who went out to take videos of the blue angels and thunderbirds, showed them on tv, has to be hundreds, supposed to get $1000 ticket for gatherings.

This I find interesting: safe enough to open states, but not safe enough for the house? https://www.wilx.com/content/news/H...t-week-due-to-virus-risk--570010471.html
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/30/20 01:09 PM

04.30.2020

In Texas there are 749 deaths.
The daily death rate is descending, but the ultimate death number is projected to be 1288 deaths by June 06..
That is a 72 percent increase from where we are now...in a fairly unaffected state.

There are 61000 deaths this morning in the USA. If that number goes up at the same rate the result will be 104,859 by June 06..
Unless remdesivir short circuits that.

That hits within the range that Fauci gave of 100-250k deaths.
That is with full-on mitigation. This is not the seasonal flu. Don't buy in to that.

It is a good that the country is opening back up, but protect yourself.
Posted By: DonnaMarilyn

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/30/20 02:20 PM

And in Spain, a long stretch of beach was sprayed with - yes, bleach - to 'protect children'. Residents were outraged. The spray destroyed the ecosystem in that area. The local government is now apologising.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-bleach-children-andalusia-a9491641.html
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/30/20 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by DonnaMarilyn
And in Spain, a long stretch of beach was sprayed with - yes, bleach - to 'protect children'. Residents were outraged. The spray destroyed the ecosystem. Local government is now apologising.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-bleach-children-andalusia-a9491641.html


And the stupidity goes on & on Donna. Sad...

John smile
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/30/20 03:15 PM

I know you hero worshippers of Dr. Fauci won't believe this. Or think he does everything for the good of humanity.
https://robinwestenra.blogspot.com/2020/04/drfauci-or-modern-frankenstein.html

John smile
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/30/20 05:28 PM

Early on Fauci is on video tape saying that the virus was nothing for us to worry about. I have no hero worship for him. And to me, it looks like he's enjoying his celebrity a little too much. Ultimately, I only watch the numbers. The numbers tell me that there are vast areas of the country that are not really in a pandemic. They also tell me that my numerical chances of Contracting the Coronavirus and having a bad episode with it are not zero. So I continue to watch the numbers. I am very conservative but not a lemming. All the am radio people have fallen in behind the party line that this is overblown paranoia. They are the last people in the world that I'll take my lead from. And the numbers tell me not to.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 04/30/20 05:45 PM

Well Trump has been on video and Twitter telling us it was nothing to worry about, and is still saying. There can be no finger pointing, truth is nobody has any experience with a once in a century pandemic.

You can find an article somewhere to support any theory you have, and one to not support it. But you won't see that writer say Trump said the same thing Fauci said. And it was Trump who wanted the country open by Easter. He deferred to Fauci.

So you can't criticize one without criticizing the other....But that doesn't stop some from trying.



Posted By: niteshift

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 05/01/20 11:04 PM

The US rate of infection and the death toll is rising exponentially. In Australia , they shut down inter-state travel. In NZ they shut down the whole country. In Fiji they shut down areas which were hot spots of infection. This has proved to be very effective, with the daily rate of infection virtually zero.

To those who are protesting about their "civil rights" , all I can say is you are selfish. It's not about YOU. The economy WILL rebound in the end. Better to take tough measures now, rather than have this thing drag on for another 6 months.

Please be socially responsible, and through sensible and responsible action, we will get a better, faster outcome.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: In reply to John's shout out.. corona virus - 05/01/20 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by niteshift
The US rate of infection and the death toll is rising exponentially. In Australia ,



First off...I take this virus seriously. It aint the seasonal flu by another name. We are on the same page.

But "exponential growth" is used a lot to describe it and I only see linear growth unless the time duration is minutes or hours. Where does "exponential growth" come from?
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/01/20 11:42 PM

Exponential growth in this discussion can be just a doubling of cases every so often (every few days usually). The best way to see if something growing "exponentially" is to look at the logarithmic chart. Here is one from john Hopkins for the US: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/01/20 11:57 PM

The duration matters.

An exponent of just two?

Starting at 2000.
The next interval would be 4000.
Following that would be 16000.
Then 256,000.
Then 65,536,000
Then 4,294.967,296,000.

I dont see anything like that.
And over what interval of time. Growth requires time.
Is the exponent one and a fraction? If so, what exponent and what interval of time.
I dont see exponential growth in those charts that you cited.

I genuinely want to understand why the part of the curve you cited is "exponential growth."

Signed,

Baffled in Houston
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/02/20 12:06 AM

In the month of March, NYC was doubling every two - three days or so! I remember reading about it, but I don't have those numbers handy now. Actually the john Hopkins charts for NY state show that data.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/02/20 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
In the month of March, NYC was doubling every two - three days or so! I remember reading about it, but I don't have those numbers handy now. Actually the john Hopkins charts for NY state show that data.


Doubling is linear. Only the first 2 or 3 days was exponential assuming that it started at 2 something or less.
Is it not? 3 doubled would not be exponential.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/02/20 12:28 AM

From somebody right in the thick of it all, it's confusing to me too.

We do ok for a few days as far as positive cases, then we get an extra thousand, and over 300 deaths the next. New York seems to go the same way, so its odd why they are talking about opening, with so many positive cases. They must have some way of seeing the severity of it.

New Jersey opens state parks tommorow, supposed to be a nice day, I predict people will be having parties and bbqs in the state parks and not social distancing. Murphy says he'll close them on Sunday if they report abuse.

But I've seen how a warm nice sunny day brings many people out. Now that it's been cleared to go to state parks people might think it's all done

It will be impossible to stop people once the weather stays warms. Weather wise it's been strange here, mild winter, not many snow days, and March April unseasonably cool. Maybe that's one reason corona is so bad here, the sun hasn't gotten to it yet..

I'm hoping people behave, then they loosen more stuff. However, school has been closed for rest of year, but had to be obvious to all.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/02/20 01:10 PM

The R0 of the pathogen that cause covid-19 (SARS-CoV-2) is currently estimated to be 2.0 - 2.5 ( https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/world/europe/coronavirus-R0-explainer.html ) . That means in an unprotected society, you get exponential growth: 1 person infects 2 (2^1), those 2 infect 4 (2^2), those 4 infect 8 (2^3) and so on or 2^n over a given (shortening) time period. Or maybe it is 2.5^n or 3^n. That means the time to double cases is reduced. If it was a linear function, then the time to double would be the same time period.

Originally Posted by https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2020/03/27/what-does-exponential-growth-mean-context-covid-19/
According to U.N. Secretary General António Guterres, it took about three months to tally the first 100,000 cases of coronavirus. The next 100,000 occurred in 12 days. Then four days, and then a day and a half. Data from John Hopkins supports this, showing how difficult it is to slow down exponential growth once it is underway.


Yes it is confusing. But social distancing and everyone wearing masks should knock down the R0 number so it becomes linear or even less than 1. If we had full blown statistical sampling, the unprotected R0 might be way, way higher, but then there would be many more cases with no or little symptoms.

Edit: I don't know if I explained it well or not, I am also confused by the statistical modelling aspect.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/02/20 01:31 PM

Well, the fact that grocery stores have been full beyond capacity means that mitigation efforts were not full throttle. Stores like home depot, staples, subway for takeout, 7-11, quick check, gas stations, buses and trains even though ridership is down 92%, warehouses, cops and fireman add to that hospitals and testing centers

How much quarantine has their been? And with people standing 6 inches in front and behind me on lines, AND the fact things weren't shut down right away, you have to wonder if it would be gone completely if it was completely shut down even for a few weeks







Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/02/20 01:35 PM

Far as this drug, you better get in there fast and take it, if its taken later in it may help kill you. https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/05/01/FDA-approves-remdesivir-to-treat-COVID-19/6361588367429/

Another study published earlier this week by The Lancet found that COVID-19 patients treated with remdesivir were twice as likely to develop severe breathing problems, including acute respiratory distress syndrome, than those treated with placebo. "
"
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/02/20 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
The R0 of the pathogen that cause covid-19 (SARS-CoV-2) is currently estimated to be 2.0 - 2.5 ( https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/world/europe/coronavirus-R0-explainer.html ) . That means in an unprotected society, you get exponential growth: 1 person infects 2, those 2 infect 4, those 4 infect 8 and so on or 2^n over a given time period. Or maybe it is 2.5^n or 3^n. That means the time to double cases is reduced. If it was a linear function, then the time to double would be the same time period.

Originally Posted by https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2020/03/27/what-does-exponential-growth-mean-context-covid-19/
According to U.N. Secretary General António Guterres, it took about three months to tally the first 100,000 cases of coronavirus. The next 100,000 occurred in 12 days. Then four days, and then a day and a half. Data from John Hopkins supports this, showing how difficult it is to slow down exponential growth once it is underway.


Yes it is confusing. But social distancing and everyone wearing masks should knock down the R0 number so it becomes linear or even less than 1. If we had full blown statistical sampling, the unprotected R0 might be way, way higher, but then there would be many more cases with no or little symptoms.

Edit: 1.) Exponential growth has to have a changing time period factor!
2.) 2^n looks a whole lot different than n^2



I appreciate the explanation but stlll dont understand.
By my understanding 2 to and exponent of 2 would be 2 then 4 the 16 then 256. It would be a curve that quickly climbs to virtually vertical. Unless measured in very short intervals, I dont see anything that looks exponential in the graphs.
Personally I think that the notion of "exponential growth" ... like a lot of this.... is hype. And I am not arguing it with you just trying to understand. My wife and I do not discount the threat of this disease even in our relatively unaffected state, but I want to understand the threat for what it is, not what some reporter is hyping it to be.

You can't make a realistic decision about how to protect yourself and live your life based on hype.
The rate of deaths in my county has started a minimal linear climb again. The actual numbers are low but the rate has been increasing over the last week..

Hey Kevin...How do you post your pics here. I can't get my links to work. What do you use?

Thanks

Martin


Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/02/20 02:02 PM

Well if we lived our life and ignored hype, then we wouldn't be following mitigation steps. That's why we have rules. Even in a free country, we are not free. Anybody is free to murder somebody, it's only after they get caught doing it do they face charges.

So my freedom is compromised by yours. If you smoke you exercise your freedom to do so, but you affect my freedom cause of your second hand smoke, pollution

Protesters complaining about freedom don't understand that they are not free anyway.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/02/20 02:10 PM

Martin: I create the pics and then upload them to a web site. Then I link to that web location. There is no way to "upload" a pic to jpf. Once you have a link to an internet pic, go to the full editor mode and the "insert image link" is just to the right of the smiley face.

My mathematics don't seem right to me -- or in other words, I can't prove easily that there is an exponential growth .

I found a chart that compares linear growth to exponential growth. We are (or were) on the exponential path for sure! So if the increase is curving, then we are doing exponential growth.

EDIT: So if you look at the covid-19 cases, we were curving early, but now seem to be going linear (maybe, need to ask an expert!).

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/02/20 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Martin: I create the pics and then upload them to a web site. Then I link to that web location. There is no way to "upload" a pic to jpf. Once you have a link to an internet pic, go to the full editor mode and the "insert image link" is just to the right of the smiley face.

My mathematics don't seem right to me -- or in other words, I can't prove easily that there is an exponential growth .

I found a chart that compares linear growth to exponential growth. We are (or were) on the exponential path for sure! So if the increase is curving, then we are doing exponential growth.

EDIT: So if you look at the covid-19 cases, we were curving early, but now seem to be going linear (maybe, need to ask an expert!).

[Linked Image]


From the graph, it would appear that exponential can be defined as some increase/time formula greater than linear growth. Not sure what that is. My instincts tell me that exponential growth is being misapplied to Covid19. But I can't say exactly why because I dont know enough math.

There is a lot of hype to this. There is a lot of static in the airwaves..
There was a time when Fauci et al were telling us that if we had been around people with no symptoms we had little or nothing worry about. That went away and reversed itself without even an apology.

And I know that will trigger your mind immediately to "orange man bad." Trump is PT Barnum. His opinion about anything medical is best ignored as if it was never said. His opinion about how to please a WWF crowd is superb.

The problem is that Fauci and the Junior leaguer and many of the clown med professionals that CNN features regularly throw out all sorts of agenda based hype . And now the right wing talk show machine has gone into high gear denouncing the disease as baseless paranoia. As if Sean Hannity has a clue about anything scientific.

So...where can reliable truth be found? Other than JHU...no where that I can see. But even that becomes the basis for mischaracterization.



ps...the link on this site wont work with google photos. What pic host do you use?

Thanks again.

Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/02/20 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
… ps...the link on this site wont work with google photos. What pic host do you use?

Thanks again.


I have a web site that I use for business, so I just uploaded the pics to that. It seems that google pics should allow you to link to the image. What happens if you right click on the image? Does it give you a "copy link" option?
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/02/20 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Originally Posted by Martin Lide
… ps...the link on this site wont work with google photos. What pic host do you use?

Thanks again.


I have a web site that I use for business, so I just uploaded the pics to that. It seems that google pics should allow you to link to the image. What happens if you right click on the image? Does it give you a "copy link" option?



It does. everything looks good until the image does not actually show up on this site. Wife and I are headed to Galveston with bicycles now. I'll try the pics again tonight and pay close attention to what happens.

Thanks
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Musicians and Corona - 05/03/20 02:01 PM

Nobody is talking about musicians losing their livelihoods due to the pandemic.

Basicly, the ONLY way musicians can make money, playing live is gone. I believe the government has now included gig workers for assistance. But imagine some up and coming artist whose career is now on hold or may never take off, timing is everything right? if you already have a fan base you can just do virtual shows, but the majority play bars and clubs.

I like what somebody in New Jersey has done, something called Busking Down The House.
http://newjersey.news12.com/story/4...ving-attracting-artists-around-the-globe

https://m.facebook.com/groups/1494442920731779/
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/05/20 02:50 PM

Corona truthers, not even trump believes your rambles...

Yeah. That’s my question. Did you ever look back at that moment in the oval office and say, “Maybe we went too far?”

Donald Trump: (04:43)
No, we did the right thing. I do look back on it because my attitude was, “We’re not going to shut it down.” And look, we’re going to lose anywhere from 75, 80 to 100 thousand people. That’s a horrible thing, we shouldn’t lose one person over this. This should have been stopped in China. It should have been stopped. But if we didn’t do it, the minimum we would have lost is a million-two, a million-four, million-five that’s the minimum. We would have lost probably higher, it’s possible, higher than 2.2.

Donald Trump: (05:10)
You know the way you have to look at that? I’ve never seen death like this. I’ve never personally experienced anything like it. And they talk about the flu and all of that. Well, I’ve known people that had the flu all my life. I was lucky I never had the flu. Then I came here, they want to give a flu shot. And I say, “I don’t want a flu shot.” But they have to give it. But you know what? I’ve known people that had the flu all of my life, nobody ever died. I never had a friend, he had the flu and he died.

Donald Trump: (05:34)
I’ve lost three friends. One, a very good friend, a very successful man, New York guy, employed a lot of people that were all crying over his death. Stanley Chera. He went to the hospital, he calls me up. He goes, “I tested positive.” I said, “Well, what are you going to do?” He said, “I’m going to the hospital. I’ll call you tomorrow.” He didn’t call. I call the hospital, he’s in a coma. Now, I know a lot of people that had the flu, they were never in a coma.

Donald Trump: (05:59)
This is a very horrible thing we’re fighting. But with all of that said, we’ve learned a lot about it. It infects older people. If you have any problem, heart, diabetes, even a little weak heart, a little diabetes, this thing is vicious. It can take you out and it can take you out very strongly. But, children do very well. Young children do better than teens.

Bret Baier: (06:26)
So you think you’ve learned from this. How you’ve dealt with it now, if it comes up in the fall, you’ll do something different?

Donald Trump: (06:32)
Yeah. We’ll put out the embers, we’ll put out whatever it may be. We may have to put out a fire. I tell you one thing, we did the right thing and I really believe we could have saved a million and a half lives. And by the way, just to know what that means, we’ve seen death like Elmhurst Hospital in Queens. Right where I grew up, right near where I grew up. Know the building very well, know the hospital. They had body bags lined up in hallways. They had body bags sitting out on sidewalks. We’ve never seen that in this country. You saw the mass grave, it’s called Harts Island. They built a mass grave, I’ve never seen anything like that.

Donald Trump: (07:08)
And that’s with, let’s say it’s 100 thousand or 90, or 95. Now, multiply it out. Don’t go 2.2 or 2.5 million, say it’s half of that. So take the numbers that we looked at, that nobody in this country has ever witnessed, and now multiply it times 15 or 20. So, instead of having 10 or 12 body bags laying on a hallway, you’d have 15 times more than that?
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/05/20 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Doubling is linear. Only the first 2 or 3 days was exponential assuming that it started at 2 something or less.
Is it not? 3 doubled would not be exponential.


I found this graphic that shows exponential growth for March 1 to May 1 -- that is exponential growth!! The first month increased by a whopping 3 orders of magnitude, while the 2nd month only (only!) increased by a single order of magnitude. Luckily we are off the exponential growth kick. (… and yes, everywhere you look you get slightly different #'s, but they all agree within a few percent).

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/05/20 07:14 PM

Charted at monthly time intervals, that does appear to exceed exponential growth. I was following the daily published results which generated the graphs and they did not appear to be exponential. If you start with 25 and add one to it every day, at the end of 600 days you will have exponential growth to an exponent of 2...viewed at at end of 600 days..
However viewed, , lots of deaths and still climbing. And it does not look like it will peak and stop climbing in June as one group was predicting.

At this point, it appears that many American people and the Trump Administration have made a decision that virus deaths must be traded for the sake of the economy and the stability of our society and...avoiding ultimately a much higher death count if the economy collapses.

I agree with that thinking but don't want to be a sacrifice fly myself. Be your own governor and protect yourself.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/05/20 08:50 PM

We must accept death so we can go to the mall ...... At least according to former Governor Christie. yeah, Accept it as long as it's not one of your own

https://www.newser.com/story/comments/290497/2-make-the-case-we-must-accept-more-deaths.html
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/05/20 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
… At this point, it appears that many American people and the Trump Administration have made a decision that virus deaths must be traded for the sake of the economy and the stability of our society and...avoiding ultimately a much higher death count if the economy collapses.

I agree with that thinking but don't want to be a sacrifice fly myself. Be your own governor and protect yourself.


I agree that economic activity has to re-emerge, but I do hope that the public (and the protestors) at least wear masks in public. Although a lot of the country can open up, I don't see conferences, sporting events, concerts and full restaurants anywhere in the near future. I always wondered where SARs went off too and the article I am going to link says it was due to mitigation, testing and contact tracing -- but it has to be more than that. maybe it just wasn't that "infectious" (just saw an article that SARs had an R0 distribution in the interquartile range 0.19–1.08, with a median of 0.49. So sometimes it was over 1, but most of the time under 1). The interesting part is all the " "lab accidents" the article mentions.


Originally Posted by http://somatosphere.net/2016/where-has-sars-gone-the-strange-case-of-the-disappearing-coronavirus.html/
From another perspective, of course, SARS hasn’t gone since specimens still exist in research facilities. Potential security lapses keep alive the specter of the pathogen’s reemergence. After the WHO’s announcement that SARS had been contained, a number of outbreaks were linked to biosecurity breaches at research institutions in Asia. In September 2003, a researcher at the National University of Singapore contracted SARS through contaminated specimens. In December 2003, a researcher in Taiwan got infected through contaminated waste material. Poor security at the National Institute of Virology in Beijing led to a cluster of SARS infections in China in 2004. In a much publicized breach in 2014, the Institut Pasteur in Paris announced the disappearance of more than 2,000 vials containing fragments of the SARS virus.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/05/20 09:22 PM

Whose idea was it to make this a Martin John and Kevin thread?

Sounds gay to me.....
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/05/20 09:26 PM

I wish the corona truthers would come back around so I could smack them around.....

You weren't right, at least come back to the thread and admit it. Kevin and Martins graph is getting a little boring....
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/05/20 10:08 PM

LOL
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/05/20 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I wish the corona truthers would come back around so I could smack them around.....

You weren't right, at least come back to the thread and admit it. Kevin and Martins graph is getting a little boring....


Hello Boys, I'm Back...
[Linked Image]
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/05/20 11:22 PM

Me too...but I'm here to keep JLS in line

[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/05/20 11:48 PM

I wasn't considering JLS a true corona truther, but just a guy who is frustrated about being on lockdown.

He's too likable to smack around no matter how 360 wrong he was.....tee hee
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 01:20 AM

Ha, ha! Likeable? I'll have to work on that Fde. laugh

[Linked Image]

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 01:26 PM

Everything Trump does hurts his chances....

https://news.yahoo.com/live-let-die-blasts-president-013638094.html

Let's party llke it's 1999!. Can't imagine the reasoning, lol
Posted By: Ray E. Strode

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 01:52 PM

Well,
I thought the JP Site was dead, never to comeback until I was notified in my E-Mail that I had new messages at JP Folks. Everett sent the message inquiring if I was all right as I hadn't posted since Brian notified us the Web Site was no longer hosting JP Folks. I Googled JP Folks and found the boards again.

So it appears there are all kind of opinions out there about the Crona Virus. It is something we will just have to live thru, like it or not. So far everyone in my family are OK and we have a good bit of money saved if someone in the family needs help. Win a few, lose a few, I always say.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 02:23 PM

Wb Ray. The question is WILL we live through it. Not all of us will.

One Thing I've observed is depending what state people are from, there opinions reflect whoever is in charge.

Arizona= Republican= Couchgrouch
Texas= Republican = Marty
Virginia= Democrat = Kevin
Minnesota=Democrat = Mark Kaufmann
Tennesee=Republican= Marc Barnette
North Carolina= Democrat = Gavin

Ray=Georgia=Republican= he hasn't been arlund, but based on my data, I think I know what he thinks.

Are we all just products of our environment?
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 02:43 PM

RAY!!!!! Glad to see you safe & sound and practical advice from someone who has lived through pretty rough patches.

I keep saying my parents (RIP) lived through the Great Depression, and in The Netherlands during WWII, as poor immigrants to Canada, and ended up living pretty good lives ...going through a lot more than I did and will. So I do believe in better days coming at us as well.

And like you I consider myself fortunate to be at this stage in life. So many people have young kids, lack financial security, family support and all the things that solidly anchor us.

Anyway...primarily good to hear from you.
Posted By: Ray E. Strode

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 04:28 PM

Sorry FD,
As far as the Political side of it there is no doubt the Liberals, Progressives, Democrats, and Communists want to run the country but they want the Republicans and Conservatives to pay for it. Today all the Socalists are screaming, Cancel the Rent!
I read between 40 and 80 percent of the people, all Americans, I assume, are living Paycheck to Paycheck. Back during WW2 people raised Victory Gardens to survive. Today they run to a Food Bank, in their nearly new cars with their hand out for supplies.
What made this country great was people getting up and going to work, not Big Social Programs. So what do we have today? A never ending Glut of Social Programs most anyone can latch onto. The U.S. Taxpayer pays the Lions share of money to run the UN, And we were paying nearly all of NATO's operating funds. Europe, no where to be found, The U.S. Taxpayer gives nearly every country on the Planet Foreign Aid. Every Illegal in the country, bar none, is getting support from the US. Taxpayer.
In essiance the U.S. Taxpayer is paying the Welfare for the whole world.

Oh by the way. Trump is a whole lot smarter than a lot of people give him credit for. The WHO? Just another leech with their hand out to the U.S. Taxpayer for welfare funds. So, to make it short, if the U.S. goes under, so does the whole world. Savvy?
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 04:38 PM

Lollllll, your rallying call is always the same, dems want republicans to pay for it.

Way different here Ray, way different.

Trump signed the 2 Trillion stimulus, Dems didnt. He signed it regardless of how bad the national debt already is. He signed it, don't blame the Dems.

if you truly don't like the government helping in this situation, then you must blame Trumo, he signed it, didn't have to.

He is smart, but also the dumbest human I've ever seen. A five year old wouldn't have the bad sense to walk into a mask factory with no mask, playing live and let die as a rallying call.

Sorry Ray, you have no defense
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 04:50 PM

One has to wonder..When will Trump stop adding to the national debt?

Is he expecting the working people to pay for it?

Ahhh jeezzz
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
One has to wonder..When will Trump stop adding to the national debt?

Is he expecting the working people to pay for it?

Ahhh jeezzz



The national debt is out of reach.No one is ever go pay it off. At least not with dollars worth anywhere near the dollars borrowed.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 09:18 PM

When a Republican spends money, then the national debt will never be fixed, but it's always a major issue when trying to discredit a dim.

In fact, in this very thread, you mentioned the debt, the other way "
We part in two places. One is "compromise". In the 80''s Reagan traded for amnesty for appx 3 million illegal aliens.. Now there are 11-40 million illegals. That long ago left no room for further compromise. In the 90's we would compromise over how to appropriate funds. Now we are 23 trillion in debt and "compromising" over how to spend money that China (and Russia) lend us from profits made by destroying and usurping a big piece of our manufacturing base. That has been compromised away too.. Compromise seems to actually mean..."doing things MY way."

I don't fault Trump for signing the bill he HAD to do it, but the way he's handing out cash to states, if a Dem was doing this, they'd never hear the end of it from republicans. This coming from a non partisan observer.

Ahhh glass houses
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio

I don't fault Trump for signing the bill he HAD to do it, but the way he's handing out cash to states, if a Dem was doing this, they'd never hear the end of it from republicans. This coming from a non partisan observer.

Ahhh glass houses


For the record...I'm not a repulsive-con, just a conservative.

As for the quote above, agreed. Tea Party was proof of that. And at the time, the debt was somewhere around half of what it is now.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 11:07 PM

Lol but the reference to the national debt was made, but now we can't worry about it.......

Ray will never admit the repubs are spending the money, on top of it, they control the house, I was surprised that Trump signed it, but that was a rare moment when both sides came together.

It's funny Murphy and Cuomo talk smack about trump in the daily briefings but when they get what they want they say " I had a great conversation with the president". Then it's smack talk again, and he does the same thing

At least the one hopeful thing for me is that both sides can work together for something as serious as this.
Posted By: niteshift

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 11:19 PM

The latest Johns Hopkins numbers.

[Linked Image]

And some are saying it's not exponential ? Huh ?

If lockdown is eased too soon, the surge in new cases will get even higher.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Lol but the reference to the national debt was made, but now we can't worry about it.......

Ray will never admit the repubs are spending the money, on top of it, they control the house, I was surprised that Trump signed it, but that was a rare moment when both sides came together.

It's funny Murphy and Cuomo talk smack about trump in the daily briefings but when they get what they want they say " I had a great conversation with the president". Then it's smack talk again, and he does the same thing

At least the one hopeful thing for me is that both sides can work together for something as serious as this.


The dim-o-crats never saw a vote that they did not want to buy with a cash handout. And citizenship is not an issue for them.
The repusive-cons never saw a muslim country that they did not want ot invade.
Both take a lot of cash.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 11:28 PM

Nobody goes into politics for the correct reason, to be a public servant. Usually Iu can't even get on the bill as a public servant, people are so used to the way it is.. I think people went with Trump cause he was very different, I think the wave of the future in politics is non partisanship

How can we call it a democracy when people vote the same way regardless of what they do, say, or lie about



Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/06/20 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
, I think the wave of the future in politics is non partisanship







Maybe...but people will still sort left and right.
Posted By: Ray E. Strode

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/07/20 01:07 AM

Whew FD,
Are you short sided. I guess the 23 Trillion National Debt is just a joke to you. The reason Trump signed that 2.2 Trillion Giveaway was so Peons like you, who don't have 2 dimes to rub together would have enough money to buy a Bottle of Ripple. However you had better nurse that bottle for all it's worth because you may never get another. However I read where Madam Piss Ant is already trying to add another Trillion to the pile.

This comes under he Heading, THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH OUT THERE

During the late 20's people were feeling pretty good about themselves. So they started borrowing small amounts of money and Investing it in the Stock Market, expecting to make a killing. However the Market Crashed and they were the ones getting killed.

From out of the Stock Market Crash we began to get a slew of Social Programs, so it wouldn't happen again.

So a lot of people had money invested in Savings and Loan programs that were very safe. Well those people saw other people making good money, sound familiar, in more risky ventures so they complained and Ronald Reagan signed a bill allowing them to take more risks. The result was disaster. And the Tax Payers bailed them out.

You think people would learn anything? Guess again. Our Liberal friends in the Congress Relaxed the Banking Rules so many people who couldn't qualify before to get a Mortgage could now qualify. A fantastic Plan right? Well people charged the Lending Institutions like a Gaggle of Hogs charging t trough of slop to get a mortgage Well, you know how that worked out, don't you?

So now all the liberals were for once and all fix Health So so we got Obama Care. However the Employee Mandate was too much for many small employers couldn't afford so many people were let go.

Well, lessee now. A 2.2 Trillion bill and probably more because people are taking no responsibility for their Welfare. I read many states can't pay the un-employment insurance and are having to slash budgets.

I can't remember for sure but I believe the City-State of Rome lasted about 1500 years. Will we last that long? Not if we continue to Kill the Goose that Laid the Golden Egg.
Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/07/20 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Nobody goes into politics for the correct reason, to be a public servant. Usually Iu can't even get on the bill as a public servant, people are so used to the way it is.. I think people went with Trump cause he was very different, I think the wave of the future in politics is non partisanship

How can we call it a democracy when people vote the same way regardless of what they do, say, or lie about




I had a classmate at college back in Scotland who became a Member of Parliament. He had no money, but he did have a passion for doing good. I can say that despite the fact that I didn't agree with his politics, which were a little too left wing for me. This was possible because the law over there limited the amount you could spend on an election - not how much you could raise, but how much you could spend. This is far easier to manage and enforce. Over here, a pretty strange interpretation of the Constitution resulted in money being equated with free speech, so you can't do that. Until this is fixed nobody will be able to go into politics for the right reasons unless they happen to be both well intentioned and super rich.

That guy, by the way, turned out to be a really good MP. And before anyone starts in on me, no, I'm not whining about things being better over there, just this one thing does seem to be more sensible.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/07/20 03:22 AM

Yeah Gavin, it may be more of an influence thing more than money, but money and influence USUALLY, go hand and hand, not always though.
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/07/20 10:42 AM

Welcome back Ray.
Posted By: Ray E. Strode

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/07/20 02:58 PM

Thanks Everett,
In this morning's paper there was an article that Georgia would be a billion dollars short in tax collections. Not sure how that will pan out as my two grandsons so far appear to be doing OK. Our Grand daughter and her husband who were working on Sea Island both got laid off and I guess are drawing unemployment at least so far. Thank God and a lot of scraping and saving over the years we, their grandparents can help some if needed. My wife sometimes gives me you know what because I try to put a bit more away for our eventual demise and other such emergencies. I figured a long time ago I needed to look out for myself. I think I was right.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/07/20 03:13 PM

Whew FD, Are you short sided. I guess the 23 Trillion National Debt is just a joke to you. The reason Trump signed that 2.2 Trillion Giveaway was so Peons like you, who don't have 2 dimes to rub together would have enough money to buy a Bottle of Ripple - Ray

Jeez I missed you Ray! laugh Big welcome back!

Best, John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/07/20 05:00 PM

Hahaha Ray can't get over the fact that Republicans run the house and they are handing out money hand and fist.

I'm sure he sent his check back, which I didn't even qualify for one.

I'm sure he's sending back his social security check too. The one where his earnings don t add add up to, what a socialist!

"ahh duhhh I thought this site was closed....lollllllllllllllll

One visit to the site and im sure there were hundreds would tell u it didn't close

We know why you disappeared daddy warbucks!




Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/07/20 05:17 PM

Fd you are getting obnoxious in your zeal...which results in total loss of any point you are trying to make

Baiting and ranting, and not respecting the other side makes you irrelevant and part of the problem .



Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Hahaha Ray can't get over the fact that Republicans run the house and they are handing out money hand and fist.

I'm sure he sent his check back, which I didn't even qualify for one.

I'm sure he's sending back his social security check too. The one where his earnings don t add add up to, what a socialist!

"ahh duhhh I thought this site was closed....lollllllllllllllll

One visit to the site and im sure there were hundreds would tell u it didn't close

We know why you disappeared daddy wharbucks!
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/07/20 05:30 PM

Wrong, actually jls highlighted what ray came out of nowhere to discuss. As if he wasn't reading it for two months already

Jls may be the one bating here. I saw it yesterday and was going to let it go, but now he brought it back

We know why Ray disappeared he disappeared the same time a few others did, well its not too late Rayy lollolol

I never called Ray names or spoke of his personal affairs, he made a stupid comment to me that since it was brought out, needed to be addressed

You were going to leave early in this thread, don't let the door hit ya
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/07/20 05:48 PM

laugh You guys bust me up! I love the entertainment. Keep it coming.

Best, John smile
Posted By: Ray E. Strode

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/07/20 06:13 PM

Um sorry,
That was a Billion Dollars short. You know, A Billion here, a Billion there, pretty soon we are talking real money! Is this the end of the Republic????
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/07/20 06:20 PM

What's another billion to them bleeding heart republicans. Destroying our country's economy with these handouts
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/07/20 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Um sorry,
That was a Billion Dollars short. You know, A Billion here, a Billion there, pretty soon we are talking real money! Is this the end of the Republic????


The US made it through the civil war and came out the other side. (With 750,000 casualties). I've always thought that if the union could withstand that, it could withstand anything. At least, for a long time to come. But the disunity in the country has become so excessive...I've begun to wonder if the union can withstand the collapse of the debt. And since no one will ever actually repay the debt, a day of reckoning has got to be coming.

This lock down may bring it on sooner than later.

My 2 cents.


Ps
I'm conservative and the Bushes claimed to be but were not. Keep in mind that the debt problem we are facing today is still the same house of cards that W presided over the construction of for 8 effin years. Obama never stopped piling it up and Trump went from expressing concern over it to acting as if it did not exist.
Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/07/20 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Whew FD,
Are you short sided...

I notice you are avoiding the question, FD. Are you short sided? And if you are, which side is it? It's important to know as this could affect your political leanings.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/07/20 11:59 PM

Ha, I'm short sided, but I have great distance vision.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 01:25 PM

Persistent pandemic! Even as cases start to go down (when???) the death rate will stay persistently high for a couple more weeks (the deaths lag the cases).

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 01:49 PM

Various states have been loosening up for a few days and at least there is not an obvious commensurate spike.
One reason may be that the states where most of the problem is are not loosening up as fast.
The seven day moving average on deaths suggests a slight descent, but the daily totals are way up and down. Wonder why that is?
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
… The seven day moving average on deaths suggests a slight descent, but the daily totals are way up and down. Wonder why that is?


I think there are reporting issues. If you look at the behind the scenes data, some states have nothing one day and then a spike the next (I have even seen a few data points at John Hopkins were there are "negative" cases -- how can that be??). Plus when some states added in nursing home deaths (or the US added in VA deaths) it seems they plopped them into one day and didn't spread them out.

We never find out the approximate flu deaths until after the flu season, because the CDC goes back and reviews hospital/examiner records to come up with a final likely number. Same here, we probably won't know a closer to reality number until later. There are still a bunch of in-home deaths (at least in NYC) that are cause unknown because covid-19 tests weren't done. NY (and other states) are starting to add in those "probable" numbers which are probably accurate -- but we don't really know. The reason that they will be counted as probable covid-19 cases is because they have fairly accurate numbers of in-home deaths. And those numbers are much higher now during this pandemic.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 02:11 PM

Love this response Gavin...but what if he was leaning forward or backwards instead of left or right? Does forward equate to progressive thinking and backward to living in the past??

Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
[quote=Ray E. Strode]Whew FD,
Are you short sided...

I notice you are avoiding the question, FD. Are you short sided? And if you are, which side is it? It's important to know as this could affect your political leanings.

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 02:41 PM

I studied Ray at college, short sided means short sighted.

I still get a kick out of you Ray. I sometimes forget the age of folks here. I wouldn't throw a right cross at you....But I might tap you with a left, that way I could say you were hit by a leftie......
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 03:07 PM

Does anybody think Biden has any chance????

If this is how he will handle debates and questions. I mean how could he possibly even run, let alone do the job if he won

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv6e5hMyz5U
Posted By: Ray E. Strode

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 03:50 PM

Well FD,
I am sorry if I offended you, Uh, Hell, I meant ever word of it. Just kidding! Now on to your question if Biden has any chance? It appears to me that Biden as well as Pelosi are getting senile and are having a hard time keeping their minds straight. And then we have the female charging Biden with sexual assult or some such thing. Will that stop people from voting for Biden. NO. Those that are going to vote for him will still vote for him. Hillary and her minions pulled every crooked trick in the book to keep Trump from getting elected and when that didn't work they tried every dirty trick to remove him from office. I think as the Gambler said, I can see you are out of Aces. I don't know how this will all wash out but it appears some people need to go to jail for a long stretch. My guess? They will skate out of it.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 04:12 PM

Yes,. Biden has a chance no matter how inept.
The Trump haters would vote for King George III at this point and there is little doubt that many of them are tacitly cheering this pandemic because it damages Trump.
The demographics put Biden in play no matter how inept he appears.
.
But, I suspect that it is going to be a horse race to the wire..
The Bernie Bros are really angry that there guy was schemed out of the nomination by the party apparatus. They may stay home and smoke a bong on election day.
If Biden appeals to them too much with free everything, the voters in the center will grow dubious of that..

Also, Biden has said some colossal silly sht over the years that ended up on video....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwP...n1yXxPQcRLmrQzWSG-WYRcrg9uNaSpeyQXWV5lPU
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 04:36 PM

You did mean it Ray, problem is what you mean is not correct. You can't offend me but you can piss me off for trying!

Anyway, I agree dems will still vote for a man that could have a stroke or die during his administration, simply cause he's dem

Same thing with Trump, it won't matter one bit, what he's done, not done, helped, hurt, you will vote Republican

That's what makes me mad about voting, majority of votes are automatic, nobody cares about facts, they will twist it all to favor their ideas.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 04:38 PM

Marty see above, not typing that again
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 05:00 PM

I still believe this Coronacrap is all a hoax. No new virus, just new tests. It's the flu, thousands die from flu complications every year. 50- 80,000 deaths in 2018 alone. And they didn't even have reason to fudge the death results back then. We're all chumps in this.

Maybe my post will take some of the heat off the rest of you guys.

John smile
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
You did mean it Ray, problem is what you mean is not correct. You can't offend me but you can piss me off for trying!

Anyway, I agree dems will still vote for a man that could have a stroke or die during his administration, simply cause he's dem

Same thing with Trump, it won't matter one bit, what he's done, not done, helped, hurt, you will vote Republican

That's what makes me mad about voting, majority of votes are automatic, nobody cares about facts, they will twist it all to favor their ideas.


The swing voters decide close elections. Always have.
The paradox...to me...is that this world clearly sorts out ideologies left and right. More so in the last few years than my entire lifetime. If someone does not know whether they will vote for the democrat or republican in a presidential election, they are a dizzy individual. Probably one of these people who starts every sentence with "perhaps." It is perverse to think that they decide elections.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
I still believe this Coronacrap is all a hoax. No new virus, just new tests. It's the flu, thousands die from flu complications every year. 50- 80,000 deaths in 2018 alone. And they didn't even have reason to fudge the death results back then. We're all chumps in this.

Maybe my post will take some of the heat off the rest of you guys.

John smile


John.

The United States of America has been largely shut down for a period of weeks and notwithstanding that there are 76,000 deaths and climbing.
And where the disease has an opportunity to proliferate and fester, it is overwhelming morgues. I don't see any way to look at that and see this as "the flu."
I hope that you are just being argumentative for sport, because if you are serious...you may be kind of crazy.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
I still believe this Coronacrap is all a hoax. No new virus, just new tests. It's the flu, thousands die from flu complications every year. 50- 80,000 deaths in 2018 alone. And they didn't even have reason to fudge the death results back then. We're all chumps in this.

Maybe my post will take some of the heat off the rest of you guys.

John smile


John.

The United States of America has been largely shut down for a period of weeks and notwithstanding that there are 76,000 deaths and climbing.
And where the disease has an opportunity to proliferate and fester, it is overwhelming morgues. I don't see any way to look at that and see this as "the flu."
I hope that you are just being argumentative for sport, because if you are serious...you may be kind of crazy.


Oh really? It's a good thing that the crowded grocery stores, WalMart, Target, etc... didn't allow the normal spread of the flu. I reckon the worst of the virus was hiding out in shoe stores.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 07:08 PM

John, you couldn't have dreamed up the hoax without hearing about a hoax online. Rush Limbaugh led the way saying covid 19, was named so because there was 18 viruses before it and they were all the common cold. he didn't have a clue

It's definitely not the flu, similar in ways yes, but not the flu.

With all that's transpired in last three months or so, nobody really believes it's a hoax any more, just people not wanting to admit being wrong

Hey I thought it was a media driven illness early on to, I didn't think that for long. Media does hype it, but this is real, I live right in the heart of it, u can't convince me otherwise now
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 07:38 PM

You rock JLS...rile em up. I'm coiling it up for now

[Linked Image]
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
John, you couldn't have dreamed up the hoax without hearing about a hoax online. Rush Limbaugh led the way saying covid 19, was named so because there was 18 viruses before it and they were all the common cold. he didn't have a clue

It's definitely not the flu, similar in ways yes, but not the flu.

With all that's transpired in last three months or so, nobody really believes it's a hoax any more, just people not wanting to admit being wrong

Hey I thought it was a media driven illness early on to, I didn't think that for long. Media does hype it, but this is real, I live right in the heart of it, u can't convince me otherwise now


And you couldn’t have dreamed up this mass hysteria without being bombarded by the Media. laugh I like how so many people are repeating phrases they hear on the news, like "this is worse than the flu". BTW, I haven't watched Limbaugh in over a decade. laugh

laugh Sorry, for some reason I can't stop laughing. laugh Even in the present state-of-affairs. laugh

John smile
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
You rock JLS...rile em up. I'm coiling it up for now

[Linked Image]


laugh
Posted By: Ray E. Strode

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 07:49 PM

Eh, Well,
And there was the Flu Pandemic of 1957. I got to experience that one first hand. I was aboard the Roosevelt in the Med when I got sick with the Flu. There were plans to make three Midway Class Carriers during WW2. Actually I think they only made two. The Roosevelt was originally named the Midway but they changed the name, If I remember correctly to the FDR.

Anyway they took it out of retirement and Re-Commissioned it for duty. We took it out in 1957 for it's first mission to the Med.
I recently learned of that Flu Pandemic. I guess a lot of people succumbed during that time.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 08:01 PM

Jls, no, it's not people saying its not the flu, it's the naysayers saying this IS the flu or no worse than the flu

Its a free country, you can believe what you want, many wont believe anything until somebody they know dies. I know a few
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Jls, no, it's not people saying its not the flu, it's the naysayers saying this IS the flu or no worse than the flu

Its a free country, you can believe what you want, manning believe anything until somebody the dies. I know a few


People die all the time. 250,000 - 300,000 people die on Earth every day.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 08:17 PM

They do? I stand corrected
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
They do? I stand corrected



Well, I wasn't sure FD. ;laugh; Now it's out - people die, it's a part of life.
Posted By: Gavin Sinclair

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Love this response Gavin...but what if he was leaning forward or backwards instead of left or right? Does forward equate to progressive thinking and backward to living in the past??

Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair
[quote=Ray E. Strode]Whew FD,
Are you short sided...

I notice you are avoiding the question, FD. Are you short sided? And if you are, which side is it? It's important to know as this could affect your political leanings.


John, that would be a short back and sides, implying that FD has been sneaking out the barber. I doubt that. Apart from anything else, Ray, speaking from atop his chest stuffed with gold doubloons, has informed us that FD doesn't "have 2 dimes to rub together." How could he afford a haircut?
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 09:37 PM

Well, I'm certainly not rich, not poor, I'm middle class, that forgotten group that Trump appealed to so well.

I don't think I qualify for stimulus for a few reasons, I didnt get one yet anyway, I'm not a conventional case

But the idea that Trump sent a stimulus to people who don't have nickels to rub together is just absurd. He sent it cause he couldn't give businesses a bailout without greasing the dem wheel a bit.

He did it though, I credit him for helping New Jersey and New York despite being mocked by governors.

Sometimes u just have to do the right thing, even if it hurts.

Hey the progressive dems are looking for 2000 month for all americans, that will never pass the Republican senate. But....
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Jls, no, it's not people saying its not the flu, it's the naysayers saying this IS the flu or no worse than the flu

Its a free country, you can believe what you want, many wont believe anything until somebody they know dies. I know a few


Same thing, both are caused by a virus with the same symptoms.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 10:54 PM

Do you support Trump?

Here what he has to say

Yeah. That’s my question. Did you ever look back at that moment in the oval office and say, “Maybe we went too far?”

Donald Trump: (04:43)
No, we did the right thing. I do look back on it because my attitude was, “We’re not going to shut it down.” And look, we’re going to lose anywhere from 75, 80 to 100 thousand people. That’s a horrible thing, we shouldn’t lose one person over this. This should have been stopped in China. It should have been stopped. But if we didn’t do it, the minimum we would have lost is a million-two, a million-four, million-five that’s the minimum. We would have lost probably higher, it’s possible, higher than 2.2.

Donald Trump: (05:10)
You know the way you have to look at that? I’ve never seen death like this. I’ve never personally experienced anything like it. And they talk about the flu and all of that. Well, I’ve known people that had the flu all my life. I was lucky I never had the flu. Then I came here, they want to give a flu shot. And I say, “I don’t want a flu shot.” But they have to give it. But you know what? I’ve known people that had the flu all of my life, nobody ever died. I never had a friend, he had the flu and he died.

Donald Trump: (05:34)
I’ve lost three friends. One, a very good friend, a very successful man, New York guy, employed a lot of people that were all crying over his death. Stanley Chera. He went to the hospital, he calls me up. He goes, “I tested positive.” I said, “Well, what are you going to do?” He said, “I’m going to the hospital. I’ll call you tomorrow.” He didn’t call. I call the hospital, he’s in a coma. Now, I know a lot of people that had the flu, they were never in a coma.

Donald Trump: (05:59)
This is a very horrible thing we’re fighting. But with all of that said, we’ve learned a lot about it. It infects older people. If you have any problem, heart, diabetes, even a little weak heart, a little diabetes, this thing is vicious. It can take you out and it can take you out very strongly. But, children do very well. Young children do better than teens.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Jls, no, it's not people saying its not the flu, it's the naysayers saying this IS the flu or no worse than the flu

Its a free country, you can believe what you want, manning believe anything until somebody the dies. I know a few


People die all the time. 250,000 - 300,000 people die on Earth every day.

John smile


Please say that you are kidding.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/08/20 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
You rock JLS...rile em up. I'm coiling it up for now

[Linked Image]


yeah right. I'm the strange one?
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Jls, no, it's not people saying its not the flu, it's the naysayers saying this IS the flu or no worse than the flu

Its a free country, you can believe what you want, manning believe anything until somebody the dies. I know a few


People die all the time. 250,000 - 300,000 people die on Earth every day.

John smile


Please say that you are kidding.


Okay, the lowest daily death toll in the World I found was 150,000.

Which translates to two deaths every second. So 12 people just died while I was typing this.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 01:00 AM

Ok.

So premature deaths caused from a highly transmissive virus figure into this how?
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Ok.

So premature deaths caused from a highly transmissive virus figure into this how?


It doesn't, since the amount of deaths from the flu are already figured in. Doesn't vary enough to alter the numbers.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 01:45 AM

John but all death has a cause. In your flu example, that was a cause for those people, plane crashes account for others, cancer others, but covid is another cause, only it can't possibly catch up to other causes that have been around for decades and centuries.

But it probably surpasses any cause in last three months
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
John but all death has a cause. In your flu example, that was a cause for those people, plane crashes account for others, cancer others, but covid is another cause, only it can't possibly catch up to other causes that have been around for decades and centuries.

But it probably surpasses any cause in last three months


This is a one day death rate FD. An average 150,000 people died in the last 24 hours. I doubt COVID 19 is going to have much affect on that.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 04:21 AM

Lol Johnboy, that not a fair fight, thousands of different ways to die verses one way......

If I see any point in your argument it's that people are dying from all kinds of things but we're focusing on one?

Fair enough, but people can't catch cancer from somebody at the grocery store, they can't catch a plane crash, they can't catch Alzheimer's or getting hit by a train.

But they can catch a human to human disease from somebody else. That's the difference. Yes they can also catch a cold or flu, but we already know this is worse than those
Posted By: niteshift

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 10:41 AM

Crikey John !

This is an animal to human transmission. Through inter-species transmission it has the ability to mutate and any vaccine developed may not be effective in the future.

This is a very serious issue. Not pushing the panic button here, but folks need to be sensible.

cheers, niteshift .
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
John but all death has a cause. In your flu example, that was a cause for those people, plane crashes account for others, cancer others, but covid is another cause, only it can't possibly catch up to other causes that have been around for decades and centuries.

But it probably surpasses any cause in last three months


This is a one day death rate FD. An average 150,000 people died in the last 24 hours. I doubt COVID 19 is going to have much affect on that.

John smile


I doubt that too. But there are other things to consider.

Do you believe Alex Jones to be a credible source of information.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 01:34 PM

Who is Alex Jones? Who is John Galt? Who am I? Well, I think I'll rest this thread for a few days. It's been real guys.

Best, John smile
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 01:40 PM

John...before you go...another question?

My father lived to 97. My mother lived to 92.
If this virus had killed them in their early 80's?....how would you view their deaths?

As a statistic to disregard in the overall scheme of nature taking it's course?
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 02:11 PM

Impossible to answer since we wouldn't have known their life span at the time. Almost 8 billion people on this planet. And Mother Nature has built-in defense systems for her survival. Maybe this is Nature taking its course.

John smile
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Impossible to answer since we wouldn't have known their life span at the time. Almost 8 billion people on this planet. And Mother Nature has built-in defense systems for her survival. Maybe this is Nature taking its course.

John smile


Not impossible at all to answer.
There are thousands of people over 65 who are dead right now, who would not be if not for Covid19 and there is no reason to believe that they might not have lasted more years, except for the pandemic. People do not die in nursing homes in these levels and percentages when there is no contagion.
If I was advocating your poiint of view, I suppose that I would evade the question also..
But I would not be advocating a point of view so adverse to all facts...except for Darwinist philosophies.

Having said that, I agree that the planet is too populous and strained in many ways. Based upon your Darwinist philosophy someone might improve the overall situation by committing suicide and encouraging others to commit suicide thereby lessening the planet's burden.. Would you suggest that to them? Am genuinely curious.


There were plagues way before the Industrial Revolution when the population was a fraction of what it is now. Plagues are not necessarily and primarily population control events, but often just the result of ignorance and improper interactions with animals. e.g wet markets,
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 05:25 PM

Cancer is natures way of controlling the population, scientists have figured this and why it's so hard to cure. Still people eat right and exercise and have pre screenings to try and stop this from happening.

But let's nail down this conversation

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020...e-in-april-than-anything-else-in-nj.html
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Cancer is natures way of controlling the population, scientists have figured this and why it's so hard to cure. Still people eat right and exercise and have pre screenings to try and stop this from happening.

But let's nail down this conversation

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020...e-in-april-than-anything-else-in-nj.html


Minor disagreement Fd.

Plagues have a greater culling effect as the population density rises. Cancer could happen to a hermit in a cave who hasnt seen anyone in five years.
Stated another way...both cause death but cancer is presumably not contagious.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 10:01 PM

But plagues are happenstance, plagues are caused by bacteria and viruses that evolved like other living things

Cancer is part of the human machinery, so if looking for a built in controller of population that's it.

Plagues just bump into you, just like a tiger could kill you if you run into it

I agree the result of a plaque can wipe out a lot of people, but I'm saying that's randomness, cancer appears to be designed to slow human kind
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
But plagues are happenstance, plagues are caused by bacteria and viruses that evolved like other living things

Cancer is part of the human machinery, so if looking for a built in controller of population that's it.

Plagues just bump into you, just like a tiger could kill you if you run into it

I agree the result of a plaque can wipe out a lot of people, but I'm saying that's randomness, cancer appears to be designed to slow human kind


I dont really disagree with you. Many things cause death. And death trims the population from what it would be if everyone lived forever.
I, (personally) , dont view death by natural causes as a culling event in the same way that I view plagues. But I see why you do.
Minor difference of opinion.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/09/20 11:05 PM

Well plagues get a lot of credit, the Bible mentions them, and they do have the ability to wipe out millions much faster. Some think ancient aliens used plagues to trim their science experiment.... Us

So plagues do seem to come out of nowhere and have intent to kill

Cancer is the body's own cells going haywire, evolution May have built in this process to ensure we don't over populate. The question would be did it happen after the population started getting huge, or was it always there

But plagues have the power to do is in much quicker
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 02:18 AM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 11:28 AM

Lifestyle can cause disease, we are what we eat and too often we eat too much and the wrong foods, we drink poisons, like alcohol, sugary drinks, we don't get enough exercise or enough sleep, some people do drugs to get a high, even too many legal drugs prescribed by Doctors can cause sickness. If we poured dirty fuel and oil into the engine of our cars, how long would they last. Our bodies have filtering systems but when we overload them, something has to give. If we are uptight and worry too much, get too angry and frustrated, all this can make our bodies sick, not to mention what it does to our minds. The bible says even sin can cause sickness and death. The air we breath is polluted and still we smoke. We decorate our bodies with ink, pierce them with metals. We live in cities of millions of people breathing in all kinds of fumes, then we wonder why our immune systems are weak and can't fight off viruses. We often over work our bodies trying to earn enough money to buy things we don't need, just to keep up appearances, and worry if we can make all the payments.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 12:10 PM

Good point Everett! I think lifestyle is the number one killer.

John smile
Posted By: niteshift

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 01:54 PM

Hey Everett,

I quite agree with your points on general health.

However, in this situation, we are dealing with a virus. They're smart little pieces of RNA,, and like all living things, will do their best to survive.

They need a host to survive. And who is the host ? Us !

A second wave is emerging, as governments put the "economy" above the health of the general population.

It's all a case of too little too late, and too much ( lockdown release ) too soon.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 02:33 PM

Lifestyle no doubt is a factor.. NBA players who tested positive probably could go their whole lives with corona virus and never have a problem because of the incredible shape they are in, or at least until they retire and get fat

Obesity appears to be a big problem, no pun. And with obesity comes the heart disease, diabtees, breathing problems and weak immune systems.

That said,it seems to be highly variable, it can kill a 10 year old kid with no health problems, yet a 100 year old can get it, get hospitalized and then get discharged. In new jersey a 102 year old survived it

It has to involve genetics and they think blood type too. And let's face it luck plays a role.

Bottom line , you don't want it. "Feelin lucky punk?"
Posted By: Ray E. Strode

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 02:39 PM

Yee Gads!
Bob Luman recorded a song Entitled: LET'S THINK ABOUT LIVING. So get off of this dying kick! When your time to go comes you will go so start living! The dying will take care of it's self.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Yee Gads!
Bob Luman recorded a song Entitled: LET'S THINK ABOUT LIVING. So get off of this dying kick! When your time to go comes you will go so start living! The dying will take care of it's self.


Wear a mask and stay back from people Ray. If you are unlucky enough to encounter the virus, bravado and platitudes won't protect you from it.

Don't believe me? Look at the assistants to Trump, Pence and Ivanka.
Posted By: Ray E. Strode

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 03:02 PM

Yes,
I know about Masks Martin. My wife and my daughter made a bunch of them. As Spock said, LIVE LONG AND PROSPER.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 03:10 PM

Well Ray I got a song for you too. When I wear my mask people ask "is it me or just a brilliant disguise". Btw I'd wash my hands and wear a mask too ray, especially in ga where they are reopening

But enjoy the song
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4r5xqiBl-Vs
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Yes,
I know about Masks Martin. My wife and my daughter made a bunch of them. As Spock said, LIVE LONG AND PROSPER.


LOL

Well Ray...my guess is that they let you "carry on" as you will, but they are taking care of business.
You're lucky to have them.

wink
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Yee Gads!
Bob Luman recorded a song Entitled: LET'S THINK ABOUT LIVING. So get off of this dying kick! When your time to go comes you will go so start living! The dying will take care of it's self.


Wear a mask and stay back from people Ray. If you are unlucky enough to encounter the virus, bravado and platitudes won't protect you from it.

Don't believe me? Look at the assistants to Trump, Pence and Ivanka.


Seems their healthy immune system is protecting them.

John smile
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 05:10 PM

Ray my wife mobilized our church's sewing group and her circle of friends and they have to date delivered more than 500 of them...sounds like we both married caring souls.

So I think you are definitely not acting rashly or don't believe there is a big problem. I also believe you do value human life, but because you did serve and I think went to war, you lived through "acceptable losses"

Not a nice thing to have to think about for those not innured to that...and who only know about Spock's "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"....but that discussion has to be had...openly and transparently.....and re opening cannot be imposed by those with most to gain or least at risk (a point I was making at your automobile thread).



Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Yee Gads!
Bob Luman recorded a song Entitled: LET'S THINK ABOUT LIVING. So get off of this dying kick! When your time to go comes you will go so start living! The dying will take care of it's self.


Wear a mask and stay back from people Ray. If you are unlucky enough to encounter the virus, bravado and platitudes won't protect you from it.

Don't believe me? Look at the assistants to Trump, Pence and Ivanka.


Seems their healthy immune system is protecting them.

John smile


I'm trying to understand what the flip side of that statement is.

Question: If they are not young and/or don't have a healthy immune system for some reason? ...is their death an acceptable outcome?.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 05:57 PM

The only flip side is if your young and healthy you don't need to worry, for yourself that is.

But it can get young and healthy people too. All it takes is for your immune system to overreact to the virus, and you could be fighting for your life.

Genes probably more than lifestyle is the factor
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
The only flip side is if your young and healthy you don't need to worry, for yourself that is.

But it can get young and healthy people too. All it takes is for your immune system to overreact to the virus, and you could be fighting for your life.

Genes probably more than lifestyle is the factor


The overriding point is that these young healthy infected people work for and with a 73 year old President of the USA and a 60 year old Vice president.
A democrat fantasy scenario.
None of these arguments for "herd immunity" etc connect all of the dots that need to be connected.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 06:54 PM

Well, Trump himself doesn't seem to care, but it seems he will not sound the alarm cause he has one thing in mind, re opening

Why anybody thought the white house would be immune I don't know
Posted By: Ray E. Strode

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 06:57 PM

Eh, FD,
Thanks for the Link to the song. First I have heard it. Back in 1998 I wrote a song somewhat simular Entitled: YOUR BABY EYES OF BLUE. Not Posted anywhere.

There are a lot of people out there trying to Beat the System. Pelosi and her minions are trying to keep the country locked down as long as possible so Trump will sign off on another huge spending bill. Sound familiar? AOC and her minions want to establish Socalisim here. That was what they had in the Old Soviet Union. The people rebelled and there were shortages everywhere. Same thing now it Venesulia. Misspelled. So do you want to replace Free Enterprise with Socalisim?
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Well, Trump himself doesn't seem to care, but it seems he will not sound the alarm cause he has one thing in mind, re opening

Why anybody thought the white house would be immune I don't know


I like where Trump is on a lot of issues. His bombastic, never surrendering personality is effective in getting many things disrupted and re-made.
But he sucks as the presidential face of a pandemic. Paradoxically, he is getting resources into place reasonably well, but he can't trim the PR tree...yet thinks that everything he does is golden.

Damndest thing to watch all of this play out against a scify background..
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 07:25 PM

Question: If they are not young and/or don't have a healthy immune system for some reason? ...is their death an acceptable outcome? - Martin

More predictable.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 07:44 PM

Ray, no I'm not socialist and I am for capitalism, very much so.

But a pandemic is no time for debating political systems. It's not socialist to give money to states so they can buy ppe and ventilators, pay our police and fireman, and help out people who can't buy food to feed their famikies. People do live paycheck to paycheck, that's not a choice, it's just a fact.

If helping the people who elect you and pay taxes makes you a socialst, then maybe it won't that bad to be a socialist. As I said, social security is socialism.

In some instances it works. But I believe in capitalism and find nothing wrong with people getting filthy rich, it's just 99% won't be that lucky.

Don't worry about Pelosi, Trump will never sign anything she writes nor Kamala harris, he's vindicative and hates both of them.

But it's the wrong time to bring up the same ole


Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 07:49 PM

Marty Trump is an enigma, impossible to get a finger on.

Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 09:41 PM

Just on CNN... The demon-crats proposed a bill to give everyone $2,000 monthly payments. There kills the value of any hard earned money we have.

John
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Just on CNN... The demon-crats proposed a bill to give everyone $2,000 monthly payments. There kills the value of any hard earned money we have.

John


Pelosi knows that an upside down treasury on the brink off a massive contraction is at the breaking point.
She just wants Trump to turn it down so that they can say that they stand for the "common man" and he doesn't.

Beyond cynical.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/10/20 10:42 PM

2000 a month won't pass, but frankly Trump is open to more than other Repubs are, partly because he wants your vote

I've heard 50 dollars a day for every day in quarantine also proposed too

But let's be fair, a 3 trillion bill was signed, who got most of it? Business. The NY Knicks got 4 million, but sent it back. Workers deserve more than the 1200 from stimulus. Knicks shouldn't have gotten it in first plzce, although their team is a disaster....

Something new will be signed, but for some reason repubs dont complain when business gets help
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 11:44 AM

In Canada, those that lost their jobs get $2000.00 a month for a limited number of months. To encourage businesses not to lay off employees, government is paying 75% of the wages up to a certain wage, employers pay the 25%. Government is tossing money right, left and center, don't know how it will ever be paid off.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 01:56 PM

Is this the start of some good news! Now 750 deaths is not good news, but the trend might be.

[Linked Image]

Edit: Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 02:39 PM

A third of the people believe they are hiding a vaccine???? LMAO

No, a third of the imaginary group of people believe a vaccine is being withseld. What is this fascination with conspiracy? Conspiracy theories often cause more problems than the problem itself. Just knock it off!

https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-one-third-americans-believe-090024774.html
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Is this the start of some good news! Now 750 deaths is not good news, but the trend might be.

[Linked Image]


I looked at Houston Harris County this morning to see of there had been a spike in cases or deaths since reopening started and it seems not.
All of this is good news. As re-opening progresses hopefully deaths will stay low.
Wife and I exercised at the local park yesterday and it "seemed" to both of us that fewer people were wearing a mask. I take that as an indication that people are less worried.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 03:12 PM

I just saw South Carolina has 75% uptick in infections since reopening.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 03:33 PM

I've read about many inaccuracies in the COVID 19 tests. And this is what all those statistics are based on. Enough said...

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 03:36 PM

John what is your opinion based on? Intuition?
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I just saw South Carolina has 75% uptick in infections since reopening.


What is your source? I looked at charts for SC, but I didn't really see a "75%" uptick. If you make a claim, then you need to try and back it up with data from a reliable source. I don't expect the corona truthers to back up their claims, because they are always going to reference some conspiracy theory youTube videos!
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 03:52 PM

I just saw it on the news, I looked for it online too only found this

https://www.abccolumbia.com/2020/05/06/predicted-sc-covid-19-deaths-rise-as-more-reopening-debated/

It may not have hit the printed press yet, but I also saw Florida up 13% since reopening
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
I've read about many inaccuracies in the COVID 19 tests. And this is what all those statistics are based on. Enough said...John smile


You are right John. I try and cross reference data the best I can. I like https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ because it gives a good variety of charts and data. However, they said 41 died in NY state yesterday, while Cuomo just said 161 died. worldometers get their data county by county and maybe some counties didn't report as usual. It is hard to keep things accurate!
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I just saw it on the news, I looked for it online too only found this
https://www.abccolumbia.com/2020/05/06/predicted-sc-covid-19-deaths-rise-as-more-reopening-debated/
It may not have hit the printed press yet, but I also saw Florida up 13% since reopening


Thanks. Here is what SC is reporting: https://www.scdhec.gov/infectious-d...-19/sc-testing-data-projections-covid-19
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
John what is your opinion based on? Intuition?


You enjoy misrepresenting folks here. Where did you dig up this reply to my post "I've read about many inaccuracies in the COVID 19 tests. And this is what all those statistics are based on. Enough said...". Not my opinion or intuition, it's from many articles I've read about the inaccuracy of the coronavirus tests.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 04:24 PM

For Florida I found this

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/c...s-and-barber-shops-reopening/ar-BB13UnqC
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 04:34 PM

Yeah right John lol

You wrote. I've read about many inaccuracies in the COVID 19 tests. And this is what all those statistics are based on." Enough said..."

You have been denying everything said in this thread, and this scientific process of reading about inacuracies in testing confirms everything you said.... ."enough said"

I don't have to mis represent you you have made it clear what you think. You reading about inaccuracies about testing confirms none of your ideas
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 05:17 PM

A big question that I must answer lays out in front of me today.

Can Whataburger take-out be trusted with my life?
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 05:24 PM

I saw a massive line stretching blocks for a steakhouse yesterday. I did a double take and for a minute thought we had opened up, well they were all wearing masks. It was all takeout but could it be worth that line?

It's weird, I have gotten subs from subway but I haven't gone into a dinner or any other fast food place
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Yeah right John lol

You wrote. I've read about many inaccuracies in the COVID 19 tests. And this is what all those statistics are based on." Enough said..."

You have been denying everything said in this thread, and this scientific process of reading about inacuracies in testing confirms everything you said.... ."enough said"

I don't have to mis represent you you have made it clear what you think. You reading about inaccuracies about testing confirms none of your ideas


You lost me FD.

John confused
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 07:31 PM

And let that be a lesson to ya
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 08:09 PM

It must be your isolation that’s causing your malady FD. Can’t be mine… I went to church yesterday, a nice walk at the Panera complex, had dinner at Burger King (in the parking lot), and had a two hour visit from my younger son and girlfriend. Ahh, I can breathe again. You should really get out FD - for your mental health. Ha, ha.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 08:24 PM

It's all a hoax John, I knew it, but once I read an article saying that tests are inaccurate, well then could there be any doubt???

Lol, let me click on YouTube to see if I can find that the virus is actually a piece of music that is getting into the body.

Let me grab a glass of bleach....
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 08:33 PM

Oh no, you’re too far gone to save FD. Another quarantine victim. The quarantine curve hasn’t been flattened yet.

John cry
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 08:42 PM

LMAO
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 08:53 PM

Qurantine ? Absolutely not, I knew all along that quarantining makes the virus worse. I walk around sneezing in the grocery store, and nobody says a word cause they know that I know about this hoax.

People walk up to me and ask me all the questions about this virus, and I'm happy to tell them that this is just athletes foot, I tell them to buy tinactin and a few cups per day it will be all gone.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 09:13 PM

And here you have it: Truth... https://www.businessinsider.com/deb...0Ovys5QDj1gYKaxc8ws_VORKvMEviiZAkMu2Y_vk

John
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 09:21 PM

And Birx believes more than anyone that this is a hoax.

But I'm surprised she hasn't consulted with me, I know all about this crazy hoax
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 09:23 PM

Glad you finally see the light FD!

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 09:48 PM

I know this is Wash Poop, but this was on Fox news

She thinks Trump is undercounting, now what? She can't be right and wrong at same time

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...are-discord-trumps-coronavirus-response/
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I know this is Wash Poop, but this was on Fox news

She thinks Trump is undercounting, now what? She can't be right and wrong at same time

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...are-discord-trumps-coronavirus-response/


Fox News laugh
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 11:03 PM

Are you saying she didn't say it!
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/11/20 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Are you saying she didn't say it!


Again, Fox News. laugh
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/12/20 12:29 AM

Well at least tennis is back, hard to believe wimbleton was cancelled but they started the UTR Pro Match Series it was played with nobody there, just judges wearing masks. Tennis was never very loud anyway, but at least it's a start
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/12/20 01:26 AM

Virus takes down the Cartel

https://www.newser.com/story/290760...;utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_top
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/12/20 01:29 AM

Trump cracks me up....

https://www.newser.com/story/290764...;utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_top
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/13/20 12:40 PM

Prices jumped 2.6%. Oh really? What a mystery. You can't flood the economy with a couple trillion counterfeit dollars and expect the price of goods not to rise. Just wait a couple months when your favorite $3 loaf of bread is $5.

John mad
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/13/20 02:55 PM

Yeah John I've been thinking the same thing. I've witnessed price gauging at the store already. I've noticed deliberate upping of prices some within normal ranbe, like pasta, our store ALWAYS has pasta under a buck a box, now it's allways 1.90 or so, which is ok, they can't keep it in shelf.

But ive seen say cookies, normally 3.99 for a big carton, now you get half that and pay 5.65

The brand's do it too, giving less and charging more

Possibly more stimulus money going out, somehow this money and loss has to get covered.. And I bet a huge tax hike will happen some time after the election.

But I have noticed thinking I got nothing for the cost at store

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/13/20 03:53 PM

Preaching to the choir?
https://www.newser.com/story/290851...;utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_top
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/14/20 10:22 AM

A measure of wheat for a penny and three measures of barley for a penny, and see thou not hurt the oil and the wine. What would be your guess as to what that means.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/14/20 12:31 PM

The cases in Houston Harris County Texas are 1.85/10ths of one percent of the population. The deaths are barely fraction of that.

But...I called a roofer that I know yesterday to do a repair. His daughter's 52 year old father in law felt sick one day and went to a hospital emergency room where he died in the waiting room. Diagnosed with covid19. He was a homebuilder. 3 weeks later is right hand man died of the virus.

Take from that what you will.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/14/20 01:17 PM

All in all, it seems like Harris county/Houston is doing OK (I think).

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/14/20 02:09 PM

Kevin

I think that we are the "hottest spot" in Texas, but the incidence of cases and deaths per the population is really small. So Texas seems to be doing well. And just when I start to feel that I can relax about it a little bit, I hear a story like the roofer's. I get my stats from a local TV station that posts them every day.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ERSButabdpG9kFOL1gzbztI0LEB3l3BW

Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/14/20 03:42 PM

While the absolute numbers seem to match (8621), the daily numbers don't!! On May 12th, your records show an increase of 298 new cases while mine show 65. I guess they all come out in the wash, it is confusing to compare daily numbers from different sources. (maybe I am not reading it right).
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/14/20 04:52 PM

I think that you're right. I think you have to wait for the numbers to wash out. Not sure that any source is totally accurate.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/15/20 11:48 AM

NY state is trending OK, but still too high. But the rest of the USA is showing some problem spots. Illinois had the most new cases yesterday (NY 2nd) and NY has dropped to the 5th most deaths yesterday.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Ray E. Strode

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/15/20 02:28 PM

Now I remember,
It is funny of how many "Experts" out there who think they know how to fix this problem. I just listened to one of those "Experts" who was testifying before some government committee.
Now in the Military there is a command structure that is responsible for accomplishing the "Mission" SO, you would think they are in charge. Not so! It was the "Mess Cooks" that knew 10 times more than any Command Structure in existence !! Now all of them are "Experts" in fixing this Chrona-Virus thing. So, as Alford E. Neuman says, What, me worry?
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/15/20 02:53 PM

Kevin, you can't go by deaths as an indicator of if the virus is going away. Not everybody dies, most dont. The spread is a bigger problem to me. Cause if the virus is there it has potential to kill

So if deaths go down for a week, but cases stay same or go up, thats just just random. It's one week it may kill 1000 next 500
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/15/20 07:12 PM

Ray you are spot on about experts because it does depend on who you talk to or listen to and what agendas they have. And there are so many mixed messages out there, it is hard to really know the best way forward. For example, Manaford was just released along with many other prisoners due to COVID danger...yet kids are supposed to go back to school, workers back to work...It is really hard to undertstand.

And good story that showcases your point about cooks in the services. Every business\office needs a "Helen Clappison". Helen knows much of what is to know about every crucial position and is totally plugged in to the informal communication channels. Ask her anything and she is bound to be able to help. Except Helen is no executive. or a decision maker.."merely" a secretary who has been around forever...yet she is the most valuable member of "the team". I met Helen in my first job and tuned in to exactly how important she was...and have been on the lookout for every "Helen" ever since.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/15/20 08:54 PM

Whats up with Texas

https://www.newser.com/story/290940...m_medium=uolutm_campaign=rss_world_img_b
Few states are rebooting quicker than Texas, where stay-at-home orders expired May 1. With cases still rising, including single-day highs of 1,458 new cases and 58 deaths Thursday, Republican Gov. Greg Abbott has defended the pace by pointing out that Texas’ 1,200 deaths are still behind similarly big states, including California and Florida

Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/15/20 09:48 PM

So, my colonoscopy was cancelled because of the Coronacrap. Now they’ll reschedule this in the Fall. In the meantime, if I do have colon cancer, it may move to stage 3, a much less chance of survival. So, how many people will die because of the stay-at-home orders? Are they keeping statistics on the indirect victims?

Wow, that's very selfish of me, just thinking of that. Shame, shame, shame, ya'll know my name.

John smile
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/15/20 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Whats up with Texas

https://www.newser.com/story/290940...m_medium=uolutm_campaign=rss_world_img_b
Few states are rebooting quicker than Texas, where stay-at-home orders expired May 1. With cases still rising, including single-day highs of 1,458 new cases and 58 deaths Thursday, Republican Gov. Greg Abbott has defended the pace by pointing out that Texas’ 1,200 deaths are still behind similarly big states, including California and Florida



Gov Abbot is opening up incrementally which I agree with. We have got to get commerce going. There isnt enough of the disease in Texas to justify keeping businesses shut. But there is risk and the attitudes about the risk vary from one person to another. As governor, His rulings are supreme, and superior to county judges and mayors...but the county judges and mayors squawk depending on their personal beliefs and whether they are democrats.

Orange man bad, so republican bad. Whatever orange man or republican say...argue with it.
And many people are genuinely fearful. My doctor sent me for a test today, so I will be the supreme governor of one old man named Martin.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/15/20 10:56 PM

Wow good luck do you have symptoms or just general test?
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/15/20 11:07 PM

Stephen A lays into blake snell, and...he's 100% right

I won't play if I'm not paid full salary......yeah, let's diss the 33 million unemployed people in the country, and small businesses shutting down and secluded people who could use a diversion like baseball...no, instead let's complain about my mega million dollar deal and only get paid for half a mega million. They wonder why people grow tired of pro sports. In some sense college sports are superior

https://nesn.com/2020/05/stephen-a-...er-blake-snell-for-stance-on-mlb-return/
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/15/20 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Wow good luck do you have symptoms or just general test?




No symptoms, just routine FD. Funny, just on “Inside Edition”, they mentioned that doctor visits are down 90%, out of fear of patients getting infected at the doctor’s office or hospital. Even women with scheduled mammograms, are down 90%.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/16/20 12:10 AM

Yeah I hear ya John. I remember a time when doctors treated patients regardless of their own risk, and all hospital crew. None of this " call us first and we see you on skype" stuff. Some of it isbmandated, others are just plain scared. I always admired first responders and have a great deal of respect for them. If you've ever seen an emt, they walk with great dignity and I respect them and what they do for people.

In the end if you go into health, you sign up for this, and there are many who dove in head first and didn't hestitate, others are probably more in it for the money.

But for sure, people are letting things go cause they don't want to go to hospital. There's no doubt that this virus causes a lot of collateral damage.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/16/20 01:07 AM

My wife, Sandra had a scheduled visit last week. She's a diabetic, on the insulin pump. She attached her Dexcom G6 to computer port, so her doctor could check out the readings. The entire office visit was on the computer and phone. Safety first.

\John wink
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/16/20 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Wow good luck do you have symptoms or just general test?


Covid 19 Test

The last two mornings I have woken up so tired that I felt drugged. Odd for me. Sat working at a desk for a while this morning and sweat formed at my hairline. Took my temperature and it was bizarre low. 95.8 degrees. Checked it with a second thermometer. Called Doc and ask if I should worry. He said he doubted it but come on in to make sure. My med clinic set up a special wing for Covid. In and done in 20 minutes. 3-4 days for results..

Lungs sounded fine. BP fine. Blood oxygen fine.
99% sure that I dont have it, but wont mind verifying.

I dont know if that was asked of me or John but I answered it anyways.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/16/20 01:45 AM

I was responding to your post, I figured John's colonoscopy was preventitive, but I'm happy to ask about john too.....

John s I brought my brother to an old school doctor our family doctor cause way back when he had a dui accident...he couldn't see out of his eye he hit the steering wheel, he wasn't a drunk just made a mistake one night

This was ten minutes to 9, office closed at 9. He insisted this is serious and called a eye specialist and told him he needed to see my brother immmediately. I could hear him arguing over the phone....I'm not coming now ill see him first thing in the morning...my doc says no, your gonna see him now. everybody respected this guy, sure enough the doctor made a special trip to his office to see him, he had to turn everything on himself.

Looked at his eye through all these gizmos, said he had serious inflammation in his eye, and asked him if he was punched, to his knowledge he wasnt, but who knows the dui team? He gave him three different drops, and pills by mouth said he'd see him in three days, no improvement... he'd need surgery and maybe even lose his eye.

It cleared on its own, but that good old family doctor man, can't beat him, the guy charged 10 bucks for as long as I can remember. Great man.

Those are doctors.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/16/20 06:27 PM

A little bit of levity.

youTube: Covid-19
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 05:02 PM

For anyone interested

I don't know if it is a reporting anomoly or not, but the cases went up slightly in Houston Harris County yet deaths did not go up from the day before for the first time since I started keeping track on 3.31.20. One can hope.

And...my favorite bartender texted me and said that they were going to try and open my favorite bar this week downtown. That was a surprise. I thought that bars were weeks away.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 05:44 PM

I think the anomaly is that deaths are sporadic and unpredictable, cases seem to be more predictable.

I can't see how your bar is going to suddenly bounce back to normal anytime soon. Some may let others be the guinea pigs and see what happens to them first before they trust sitting in a bar themselves. And there's no way social distancing is going to work in a bar.

In New Jersey the shore is opening and for one reason, it brings in huge revenue. Seems odd because alot of the hotels down there and events already cancelled and returned money back, now it's opening?

If I were you I'd wait a few weeks before sitting down in the bar.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 06:16 PM

Here's one of many reports. This one is from a creditable source:

"May 14 at 3:18 PM ·
My friend Steve died a couple of weeks ago right in front of me of a massive heart attack. This week the death certificate came back as cause of death Covid-19! When his wife asked why this was on the certificate, she was told that they are told to put it on everyone's certificate! She refused this and threatened to take certain action. She talked with someone else after refusing and was told " oh, it must have been a mistake" . This is outrageous! So, what do you think of that people????? WAKE UP!!!!!!"


I figured this crap has been fudging the numbers. The higher the numbers, the bigger the pay-outs. BUULSHIT!!! How can anyone take these numbers seriously?

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 06:40 PM

It's very complex, it gets clouded cause we know people die every day, but we also know your not supposed to have the corona virus.

If this person died of massive heart attack, there had to be a related covid 19 reason, it can cause heart attack and stroke. But it had to be involved for them to say covid 19 caused it if it was so obviously a heart attack.

In the end it seems odd they'd be so caught up in the cause, I think I'd be more concerned about losing somebody than whether or not c ovid did it
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 06:53 PM

I don't think you read my post FD. I'm talking carrots and you're talking cabbage.

John laugh
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I think the anomaly is that deaths are sporadic and unpredictable, cases seem to be more predictable.

I can't see how your bar is going to suddenly bounce back to normal anytime soon. Some may let others be the guinea pigs and see what happens to them first before they trust sitting in a bar themselves. And there's no way social distancing is going to work in a bar.

In New Jersey the shore is opening and for one reason, it brings in huge revenue. Seems odd because alot of the hotels down there and events already cancelled and returned money back, now it's opening?

If I were you I'd wait a few weeks before sitting down in the bar.


Deaths have been running between 2 and 5 percent increase over the day before for a month and a half. In Houston Harris they have been steady.

Regarding going to bars...agreed.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Here's one of many reports. This one is from a creditable source:

"May 14 at 3:18 PM ·
My friend Steve died a couple of weeks ago right in front of me of a massive heart attack. This week the death certificate came back as cause of death Covid-19! When his wife asked why this was on the certificate, she was told that they are told to put it on everyone's certificate! She refused this and threatened to take certain action. She talked with someone else after refusing and was told " oh, it must have been a mistake" . This is outrageous! So, what do you think of that people????? WAKE UP!!!!!!"


I figured this crap has been fudging the numbers. The higher the numbers, the bigger the pay-outs. BUULSHIT!!! How can anyone take these numbers seriously?

John smile


Which? Credible source?
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 07:00 PM

John LS...hard to say from one incident whether or not it is widespread..although I have no doubt there are some such cases out there. We talked earlier about the training of coroners in the US and the bar is not high.You do not even have to be a medical expert. (Different from a true medical examiner) Add underpaid and subject to re election and there could very well be applied pressure.

BTW...not sure if this is ubiquitous in the US, but from what I know, generally the CoD can be disclosed by a chain of causality...which allows for an immediate cause of death that follows other causes

My Dad passed away in Florida some 20 years ago

Immediated cause was a heart attack ...caused by a deep vein thrombosis and closed head injury....caused by injuries received by his being hit by a delivery truck while riding his bicycle.

Each cause is listed, from the immediate cause downward.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 07:12 PM

I give up! You folks just keep believing the Politicians, the Media, and the hospital administrators, and you’ll be safe in your self-made prisons forever. I’m starting to believe that many people are enjoying this new lazy lifestyle imposed upon them.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 07:26 PM

I read your post John, what I can't understand is why this wife is not more concerned over her husband's death as opposed to fighting c ovid 19 dx on death certificate.. Also covid 19 is not a cause of death, it's a trigger of death.

Weak heart, lungs, immune system, obese, copd, age.

Are the death numbers over stated probably, but we may find out they were under diagnosed too.

Why does it matter so much, this much we I ow, you don't want covid 19, avoid at all reasonable costs.

I feel for the woman and I can understand being angry, we all want clarity and we also look to blame something to help us deal with grief.

But, I'd rather trust science, than a random woman I don't know.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 08:02 PM

" read your post John, what I can't understand is why this wife is not more concerned over her husband's death as opposed to fighting c ovid 19 dx on death certificate" - FD

My wife is what they call a brittle diabetic. Now, God forbid, if she died from a severe insulin reaction in her sleep, and they labeled it a Covid 19 death, I'd be pissed as hell. And it appears this crap is going on. So if you die in a car accident, it was probably COVID 19 effecting your mental judgement.

John
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
I give up! You folks just keep believing the Politicians, the Media, and the hospital administrators, and you’ll be safe in your self-made prisons forever. I’m starting to believe that many people are enjoying this new lazy lifestyle imposed upon them.

John smile


Which...credible source?
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 09:31 PM

Hope you understood I was saying one case does not a trend make..although definitely possible given coroner training and vulnerable pressure points

And I am all for re opening the economy..in a smart and staged way. We are in fact doing so right now in Ontario & our other provinces

But opening it up widely on the basis of alleged overstatement of the problem is not a smart course of action.

For one the "conspiracy to overstate" must then be worldwide, not only in the USA or your state.

But whatever debate surrounding the issue of numbers, whether it is based on overstated deaths or under reported cases, the key for me is that scientist and medical professionals all agree this is extremely infectious.

So in order to curb that spread, until we learn more, it is better to err on the side of prudence and remain vigilent and as much socially distant as possible

If we err on the side of returning things to normal too soon, science and medicine believe more people are going to die than is necessary.

In all this, the acid test is this...and you need not answer.

Are you willing to go out yourself, along with your wife, and bank on all of this being a hoax?

No need to answer publicly because whatever you say, it will just cause a big kafuffle

Just answer that question yourself, honestly and from your heart and mind.

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 10:00 PM

John, the only way that scenario would be labelled a covid 19 death is it she had covid 19 symptoms and then had the shock. Otherwise, how would they know she even had covid?

If this was just a case of a complete botched result much like a typo or mishand!ing, where the person didn't have covid, that's a whole different thing, and not related to this whole covid cause of death controversy.

Not saying it didn't happen, just saying that doesn't mean that the covid death numbers are completely innaccurate, because of this story.

Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 10:21 PM

"John, the only way that scenario would be labelled a covid 19 death is it she had covid 19 symptoms and then had the shock. Otherwise, how would they know she even had covid?" - FD

Exactly, they didn't know. They had orders to label everything a COVID 19 death. Now, you're getting the point FD. laugh

"Which...credible source?"

A personal contact. Not that it matters. Anything other than the Media crap, you guys dismiss. Doesn't that sound like brainwashing?

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 10:33 PM

She's lying, plain and simple. Nobody tells a hospital staff that no matter what a person dies from, mark down covid related death.

Nonsense. If true, take away all those licenses and shut down the hospital immediately.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
"John, the only way that scenario would be labelled a covid 19 death is it she had covid 19 symptoms and then had the shock. Otherwise, how would they know she even had covid?" - FD

Exactly, they didn't know. They had orders to label everything a COVID 19 death. Now, you're getting the point FD. laugh

"Which...credible source?"

A personal contact. Not that it matters. Anything other than the Media crap, you guys dismiss. Doesn't that sound like brainwashing?

John smile


Not true for me. The media is not trustworthy. They come on TV with their "OMG!" voice and try to scare and anger us into listening to whatever they have to say. Everything is politicized and agenda biased. Some things less than others. I have no doubt that JHU is agenda biased but probably much less than Rachet Madcow or Alex Jones.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/17/20 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
She's lying, plain and simple. Nobody tells a hospital staff that no matter what a person dies from, mark down covid related death.

Nonsense. If true, take away all those licenses and shut down the hospital immediately.

No, FD, 89,908 corona death total in USA is the lie. There's probably around 40 - 50 thousand deaths like any other flu year.

John
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/18/20 12:08 AM

I have a friend who is an anchor in Pennsylvania, he doesn't try to scare you nor the station trying to scare you. They do their job, read the news.

I agree the production is designed to draw you in, and they love snow storms and events like this cause it boasts ratings.

He doesn't work for republicans...fox, or dems, CNN, those are tv shows not news.

John so it's not 89,000, but 50, 000, and your reason for this number is?????

You want it to be that number????
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/18/20 12:16 AM

Donald Trump, it you don't agree vote Biden instead.:

Donald Trump: I’ve never seen death like this. I’ve never personally experienced anything like it. And they talk about the flu and all of that. Well, I’ve known people that had the flu all my life. I was lucky I never had the flu. Then I came here, they want to give a flu shot. And I say, “I don’t want a flu shot.” But they have to give it. But you know what? I’ve known people that had the flu all of my life, nobody ever died. I never had a friend, he had the flu and he died.

Donald Trump: (05:34)
I’ve lost three friends. One, a very good friend, a very successful man, New York guy, employed a lot of people that were all crying over his death. Stanley Chera. He went to the hospital, he calls me up. He goes, “I tested positive.” I said, “Well, what are you going to do?” He said, “I’m going to the hospital. I’ll call you tomorrow.” He didn’t call. I call the hospital, he’s in a coma. Now, I know a lot of people that had the flu, they were never in a coma.

Donald Trump: (05:59)
This is a very horrible thing we’re fighting. But with all of that said, we’ve learned a lot about it. It infects older people. If you have any problem, heart, diabetes, even a little weak heart, a little diabetes, this thing is vicious. It can take you out and it can take you out very strongly. But, children do very well. Young children do better than teens.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/18/20 01:09 AM

Well guys, I'm signing off on this thread. Not that's it's not fun, or good for quarantining, and all thaf. But I'm getting ready to download toontracks ezbass on Tuesday when it comes out, and I'm gonna spend time figuring out how the he'll to use it. I loved their drums, wasn't crazy about their piano because to get the feel you need for your song, you'd probably need every add on pack they make which are 39-59 bucks each probably 5 or six in every genre. Then you might still it have your feel

Hoping the bass will be easier to edit.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/18/20 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Well guys, I'm signing off on this thread.


I'll take that bet.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/20/20 03:50 PM

Was the lockdown longer and more severe than it really had to be -- probably, but at least there is one bright spot: reduced pollution due to cars and other things.

This is really "anecdotal" evidence so take it with a grain a salt. I have seen some pics where the visible air quality was the same before and after even though the # pollutants in air was reduced. But I have to ask, do we really have to go back completely to those levels of pollution?

Google: "pollution before and after covid lockdown" I believe the below is before and after in India.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/20/20 04:04 PM

They interviewed some woman on 60 Minutes the other night and showed New Delhi India before and after the shutdown. And the change was remarkable

Personally, my instincts are that they shut down was just about right.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 05/20/20 04:52 PM

They interviewed some woman on 60 Minutes the other night and showed New Delhi India before and after the shutdown. And the change was remarkable

Personally, my instincts are that the shut down was just about right.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/14/20 03:14 AM

Spiking... https://www.foxnews.com/health/us-c...any-areas-while-europes-decline-cdc-says,

ARIZONA, it's a cult!
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/16/20 03:52 PM

Funny how the media is not discussing the outbreaks of corona virus anynmore.

Texas Arizona Florida have record hospotalizations right now.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/16/20 04:08 PM

Can't believe the numbers anyway. They're all lyin' B's. Dr. Fauci recently came out and said that masks will help keep a person from catching the virus. In the beginning he said it wouldn't protect you much. Now he says, he only said that in the beginning to keep people from buying them all up, because the hospitals needed them. Caught in a lie once, you can never be trusted again. Liar, liar, face on fire! Dr. House says "everyone lies". And yet, the sheep still believe...

John
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/16/20 04:17 PM

Well they also thought it was transmitted on surfaces, not so much any more.

I know they used to say masks didn't work, now they do.

It's a novel virus we don't know all about it.

I think the numbers are real, especially when you don't see it on news any more.

What I do know is were doing well in ny and nj but we had a long fight to get to this point. Texas Arizona and Florida didn't take it as seriously

Just stay where you are don't come visiting, we don't want it back

coronavirus-record-2783-new-cases-of-virus-55-additional-deaths

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/16/20 04:29 PM

You know what happened the other day? I was in stop n shop, guy has his mask on but not covering his mouth he coughs and I felt two drops one on my forehead and one in my arm. I al most lost it. He was a black guy so I didn't want a racial incident, I wanted to lay into him. For some reason I didnt do anything, he wasn't intimidating, I coulda kicked his azz.

But I gave him a stare down and he actually bowed his head he knew what happened.

Grabbed the moist toiletries and rubbed my forehead and arm. But that's a surefire way to get it

Trump is making people sign waivers to go see him, he obviously knows it's a possibilty
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/16/20 04:44 PM

Yes Fde. Remember the days when someone sneezed and the response was "God bless you"? Now people want to kill you when you sneeze. Everything's distorted these days.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/16/20 05:05 PM

Well I certainly wasn't saying God bless you not when he has a mask on and doesn't have it on covering his mouth

I still say God bless you when people sneeze, but even if you don't care about yourself you have to think about people who don't want it

I don't want people smoking around me either there are laws for that one
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/16/20 05:22 PM

Seems conspiracy is a two way street

https://news.yahoo.com/fired-florida-data-scientist-creates-231707140.html
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/16/20 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio


PAY UP!

I won the bet.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/16/20 06:37 PM

My wife's best friend of 30 years thinks (thought) that the virus was a hoax. Sent out all the supporting memes etc.
This morning she texted my wife that she tested positive.
Her husband is also showing symptoms.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/16/20 07:02 PM

You made the bet I didn't lol. I think I did take a break from this thread, I did spend the first few days with ezbass, looks like a complete win for me....

You won't see the grand scale stuff I those states cause we'll end up giving them the help they need. God knows how many ventilators New York has, and would probably ship to Florida as well as man power

But it does mean a second wave could happen. I think we're all including the media a little too secure. But I suggest Texas Arizona and Florida lock down. While we have a great summer!

Posted By: niteshift

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/16/20 07:35 PM

If you are not a MEDIC, a SCIENTIST, or a FRONT LINE CARER, then please don't comment.

Just stay on your social media and construct your own misguided theories.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/16/20 08:04 PM

Looks like the media heard me. I've awoken the giant.

https://news.yahoo.com/second-wave-covid-19-u-083903052.html
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/16/20 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
You made the bet I didn't lol. I think I did take a break from this thread, I did spend the first few days with ezbass, looks like a complete win for me....

You won't see the grand scale stuff I those states cause we'll end up giving them the help they need. God knows how many ventilators New York has, and would probably ship to Florida as well as man power

But it does mean a second wave could happen. I think we're all including the media a little too secure. But I suggest Texas Arizona and Florida lock down. While we have a great summer!



You made an assertion/proclamation. I bet against it. I knew that you could not possibly help yourself and not post to this thread again.
You lost and owe me a bazillion dollars.
Pay up!
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/17/20 12:42 AM

Interesting, though people will always believe what they want to believe: https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on...AxJdBd8nlxqotB575vK1FaE0tjOW3mW11ClNUp9I

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/17/20 12:56 AM

Lol John, in fact people DO believe what they want. Some people worship the sun too, and somebody is there to support it

I know dead people from covid19 it kills. Not everybody, mostly nobody. But it does kill some and in an unpredictable and scary way.

Some won't believe it until somebody they know dies

Nobody's forced to believe but denying it does nobody good either. Im Not scared of it never have been, but I dont think it's unreasonable to respect the threat.

Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/17/20 01:09 AM

Gee, I can't figure out why Arizona is the new hot spot, I can't figure it ou...
Oops

https://news.yahoo.com/partygoers-packing-arizona-bars-now-222631009.html
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/17/20 10:58 AM

This is the most thorough, rational study (by experts in the field), I've seen. Placing this flu season in perspective.
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on...AxJdBd8nlxqotB575vK1FaE0tjOW3mW11ClNUp9I

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/17/20 02:20 PM

Not sure who the expert is in that video john. By the sound of the narrator's voice, it sounds like a real bogus report. Talking all quiet so to pretend it's secret information lol. he's a clown. But I still like you John.

Even if there was anything to that video, NY is not the problem any more, Ariz Texas and Florida are, three of the biggest denier states.

It's simple try to stop the spead, it will stop. Dont and it won't go away easy

https://www.newsweek.com/us-coronavirus-death-toll-projection-jumps-multiple-states-reopen-1511215



Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/17/20 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Not sure who the expert is in that video john. By the sound of the narrator's voice, it sounds like a real bogus report. Talking all quiet so to pretend it's secret information lol. he's a clown. But I still like you John.

Even if there was anything to that video, NY is not the problem any more, Ariz Texas and Florida are, three of the biggest denier states.

It's simple try to stop the spead, it will stop. Dont and it won't go away easy

https://www.newsweek.com/us-coronavirus-death-toll-projection-jumps-multiple-states-reopen-1511215





Oops, I posted the wrong link. Here's the correct link: https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on...AxJdBd8nlxqotB575vK1FaE0tjOW3mW11ClNUp9I
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/17/20 02:52 PM

I googled Erin Marie Olszewski a couple of weeks ago when the video first came out and one of the first links about her was from InfoWars. Whether or not what she reports is accurate or not, InfoWars is about the worst association you can have. Those were the guys (alex jones) that said the Sandy Hook elementary school shooting was staged and then countless "americans" harassed the poor parents for years. Even though these provocateurs can get it right sometimes, you are judged by the folks you associate with.

Edit: I guess you changed the link!!!


Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/17/20 03:25 PM

Seems to be the same breed of people who harassed the families of people who claimed to die from covid19
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/17/20 03:56 PM

Anecdotal...
My wife's 65 year old friend of 30 years was diagnosed with this yesterday. Her husband was diagnosed with it this morning

I am finishing up a house and the electrician needs to order a special breaker in order to get his final inspection. I called them this morning and asked him what the holdup was and his supply house is shut down because two employees tested positive.

This virus is no longer a television event for me.
Posted By: Dave Rice (D)

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/17/20 06:43 PM

Before I get started... I thought I'd better ask about Roy Cooper. I read the first page of this thread, was amazed at Mark Kaufman's informative post. So much water has gone over the dam since this thread began but I am amazed at how opinions, theories, scientists seem to vary all over the map. I don't know what to believe any more. I do wear a mask when we go to Wal-Mart to buy our groceries each week and pay attention to the social distancing recommended. Other than that, not many stores or restaurants are open... but people are so tired of not being able to go to church, have a sit-down meal at a favorite restaurant... or see our beloved elders in nursing homes or hospitals.

I am reminded of when the Twin Towers were brought down... everything changed involving airline travel and it has not been the same since. It was a good move but sure makes me glad I don't have to fly commercially anymore. Are we going to have the same experience with this Pandemic? Masks forever? Hopefully not!

Now that time has past and more information is available on a world-wide basis, it is possible for an ordinary citizen to gather and compare information on those countries that ignored the Corona Virus while we were stuck at home having to watch extremely bad television... or find ways to keep from going bonkers.

In this small county (second smallest in Texas) we have had only five cases and these are fairly recent... and at this time, no deaths. They are home-quarantined as far as has been reported to date.

I'm hoping all the Nation's impacted by this Virus will demand their Scientific and Medical Organizations will quickly come up with a preventative... if not a cure for this unseen enemy.

Best wishes and good luck to all of you. Stay safe if you can.

----Dave
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/17/20 06:52 PM

Dave
The woman who my wife knows uploaded pics to her instagram page showing her out to dinner with about 10 other women at a single table. About a week later she and her husband tested positive.

Cause and effect? Dunno.

Be careful about restaurants for a while.

Marty
Posted By: Dave Rice (D)

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/17/20 08:44 PM

Thanks, Marty:

Wanting and needing are two different topics... LOL! For the present, I'm following the rules 'cause I'm a geezer with at least one foot in the grave! Oh, to be young again!

All the best, ----Dave
Posted By: Dave Rice (D)

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/20/20 04:24 PM

It is interesting to see how other countries compare in the Covid 19 Pandemic statistics. A site called Covid 19 shows most of what we need to know. The list is long... and sadly, we are number one here in the "States." What we don't know is if we are not hearing accurate numbers from elsewhere, or if they are manipulating the facts. China (where it all began) is so far down the list... it is not believable. Brazil is number two at about half our number of deaths when I checked the list last.

I'm ready for this stuff to find another planet to inhabit!

Stay well, keep safe... and keep writing, everyone. ----Dave
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/20/20 05:05 PM

My wife's best friend was admitted to the hospital yesterday afternoon.
Blood oxygen was 89 at admission. Diagnosis was "covid lung."

This virus is not a hoax. It was, in fact, being contained and if it had been left to run its course from the outset, the deaths would have reached the millions. It is hard to understand why people are denying the obviousness of that.

And I am not all freaked out and hid out under my bed...but a threat is a threat.
The people who jambed the streets to riot and protest were reckless fools and the people who are going to pile into the Trump rally in Tulsa are inexplicable reckless fools. All of them are playing the odds and some will lose the bet. The stakes may be their life or the life of some innocent that they infect.


Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/20/20 05:41 PM

Yeah and blaming it on testing is akin to saying that weighing people makes more people get fat, or checking blood pressure makes more people have high blood pressure.

The rally is very scary and makes no sense.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/20/20 06:08 PM

4 k New cases in Floruda, 40 deaths, that's about the same numbers we had during the peak. https://www.winknews.com/2020/06/20...than-4000-new-cases-reported-in-florida/
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/20/20 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Yeah and blaming it on testing is akin to saying that weighing people makes more people get fat, or checking blood pressure makes more people have high blood pressure.

The rally is very scary and makes no sense.




Facts.

Hospitalizations, admissions to ICU and deaths are what I watch.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/20/20 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide

Hospitalizations, admissions to ICU and deaths are what I watch.


Martin, do you have a link that shows that for the US -- I can't seem to find that data easily -- only cases and death. I use worldometer and hopkins sites.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/20/20 09:37 PM

Kevin

This one seems reliable and can be filtered by individual states.
It shows deaths, testing, hospital and ICU beds used as well as current capacity.
it is very interactive, float your cursive over the various graphs and it will detail the information.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/new-york
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/20/20 11:28 PM

I still think positive tests is the most important, when 4k people test positive overnight, and zero are supposed to have it, that's pretty telling. Deaths and hospitalizations are just random.

Posted By: MidniteBob

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 12:33 AM

Hey All!

I signed back in for a moments to post just a coupla comments that are facts.

Fact 1: Fdemetrio & I have had one or two or 387(but who's counting) tussles over our years here...So it's obvious that we'll never be BFF's....But that doesn't mean that I won't stand in his corner when life & death are, literally, on the line!

Fact 2: What Niteshift said a few posts up!!! Heya Geoff:-), I managed to break a law in 37 of the 50 States before this virus thingie limited my travel....OK, that last part ain't completely true:-)

Fact 3: Here is a copy & paste of what I wrote on my FB page a little over a month ago:

What's on my mind? Regarding anyone who refuses to wear a mask:

Speaking strictly for myself, I really wouldn't mind getting and dying of Covid19...Lemme 'Splain...I've had an adventurous life, have a strong Faith in God, and am heavily insured, so I don't hafta worry about leaving any loved ones destitute....
And to be brutally honest, I wouldn't mind leaving this [naughty word removed]-hole world behind, because I don’t fear the next Adventure....

HOWEVER!!!!!! If I didn't wear a mask, and infected someone else through my carelessness, and THEY died because of me, then that would make me a murderer! Not only would my conscience nag at me for that, but that someone who I infected might not be as "ready to go" as I am!!!!

Over the years of my life, I have broken 9 of the 10 Commandments, so I am obviously not a saint…Duh! But the ONE Commandment that I will never break is number 6: Thou shalt not kill.
I will gladly leave my bucket list of breaking all of the 10 Commandments incomplete…9 out of 10 ain’t bad!.....And THAT is why I wear a mask…








Posted By: MidniteBob

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 12:47 AM

P.S....My "Home church" is 300 miles away, up in DC, while I've lived in NC for the last decade....I've driven up to that area, on long weekends, as often as I could...To play some musical gigs and gather at friends houses....My Home church is now doing Sunday Services via "Zoom".....It is really KEWL!!!!.....So don't no one try to pull the "We can't even go to church together card" outta their pocket!!!!
Posted By: MidniteBob

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 01:20 AM

P.S.....This is how myself and a few friends and more than a few JPR'ers have been entertaining our "Home-Quaran-Tuned" selves lately, on my FB Page, while keeping a sense of "We're all in this together"... It's a Youtube channel Thingie that we've created.... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPD4tZNUog1Ea9ZUyrS7PoQ/playlists
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
I still think positive tests is the most important, when 4k people test positive overnight, and zero are supposed to have it, that's pretty telling. Deaths and hospitalizations are just random.




Deaths are random?
Deaths are final and certain.
Tests are more random.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 03:33 AM

In case of corona yes deaths are random. A 103 year old can walk out of the hospital ok, whereas a 25 year old can die.

The next 1000 people that test positive can all survive, then the next batch of thousand 100 might die. That's what I mean by random, no way to know how many will die, but there is a way to know how many have it...test

To quote trump " I keep telling my people slow the testing down".
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 01:01 PM

When covid takes people, it appears to take them fairly quickly.
If someone dies testing positive for covid..then they died testing positive for covid.
If there are 120K dead people in the US who tested positive for covid, that is a certain statistic...regardless of whether they were 25 or 103.
If your point is that that 103 year old was going to die anyway and the 25 year old was not..the fact remains that they did die testing positive.

I don't smoke dope Fd, but if I did, I'd ask for some of yours. It must be potent. It has a profound effect on your ability to see the obvious when you light up. wink
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 01:42 PM

Maybe you should start smoking dope then.

You didn't even read I said the 103 did NOT die, why not?

Why some people die, and some dont, its not known, it's random .

So, let me get this straight.... 120k people are dead from corona.

But if a new 4 k people test positive AnD only 3 die that means that things are ok?

The next 4 k will kill the same amount? Or will it kill more next week?

Posted By: Dave Rice (D)

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 02:08 PM

Morning, Guys and Gals: (I hope the "Thought Police" don't accuse me of being Racist/Sexist, etc.?)

I looked at the Covid Stats again this morning. The element of testing makes me wonder how "warped" the table of statistics really may be? The U.S. has clearly done more testing than any other country and that seems to imply a possible result of such a large number of cases. (...and we have only tested less than 25% of our entire population.)

Another alarming statistic is the number of deaths in the UK. They are number 4 on the list in that statistic if my memory is correct. I tried to print out the entire table but the website would only let me print the big number stats on the first two pages... and not the "table/spreadsheet" itself. I wanted to be able to look at the whole thing and attempt to apply some degree of logical analysis. Additionally, I saw no information in the table depicting the entire population of each nation... or if the nation or region was enduring a state of war or other unusual influence on the population during this Pandemic.

We learned in "Critical Thinking" (which I found to be a total waste of time) that statistics can be used to present nearly any argument... and bent this way or that depending on the viewpoint of the "surveyor/presenter."

China had moved up several notches in the list to spot number 21 but there were no test numbers listed.

Then I thought about where I might find statistics on symptoms of those hospitalized, treatment methods performed, treatments which reduced or eliminated symptoms... or even better, caused recovery/discharge.

We clearly (as the general public) don't know enough about this "thing"... other than complete isolation, social distancing and wearing a mask in the presence of others, especially those away from our homes... are the best way to survive... we believe! Then there are those nations who have attempted to achieve "herd immunity." Some with apparent success!

So what is the best approach? I wish I had words of comfort... but most of us will probably be gone from natural causes, highway accidents, or murder by ANTIFA for crossing into the CHAZ district in Seattle... LOL!... before we have the final answer/cure or prevention of the "Wuhan Virus."

Be safe, be smart, keep writing and recording those songs... or writing down those creative ideas you need to explore for the next one. We've got to keep our minds out of panic mode... as the majority of the media would love to keep us trapped. Even Fox News appears to be wobbling on "fair and balanced."

----Dave
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Maybe you should start smoking dope then.

You didn't even read I said the 103 did NOT die, why not?

Why some people die, and some dont, its not known, it's random .

So, let me get this straight.... 120k people are dead from corona.

But if a new 4 k people test positive AnD only 3 die that means that things are ok?

The next 4 k will kill the same amount? Or will it kill more next week?



I did read that incorrectly. But it makes no difference.

We'll see if testing and contact tracing ever actually yields a usable result. I doubt that they will. IMO, In both cases, the task is a moving target and much too big to really get your head around. Whereas hospitalizations, ICU admittals and deaths give you something certain to build plans around.

Pot is not for me.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 03:18 PM

Over the years of my life, I have broken 9 of the 10 Commandments, so I am obviously not a saint…Duh! But the ONE Commandment that I will never break is number 6: Thou shalt not kill.
I will gladly leave my bucket list of breaking all of the 10 Commandments incomplete…9 out of 10 ain’t bad!.....And THAT is why I wear a mask… - Bob


You're killing me now Bob. laugh No worry Bob, the flu hasn't killed you in all these years. You're safe.

Best, John wink
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 03:18 PM

One undeniable fact...

If nobody has corona virus, nobody can die from it.

Containing the spread and keeping hospitals from overflowing are still the only controllable factors we have to work with.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 03:27 PM

Latest stats from: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

The high death period was when the hospitals from New York and New Jersey were being over swamped. Other than that, I don't have a reasonable explanation for the trends going in opposite directions.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 03:55 PM

Yeah, but they say a person goes on a ventilator for covid they only have a 50% chance of recovering, and from older case in pneumonia and copd like my mother died from, it's not even as high as 50%, it's very bad news having to go on a ventilator.

So beyond using a ventilator I'm not sure what else they do to stop people from.dying. They can certainly help with symptoms

But I agree shutting down the economy and having social distancing was all about keeping hospital visits down. Less contact with others, less spread, less visits to hospitals.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
One undeniable fact...

If nobody has corona virus, nobody can die from it.

Containing the spread and keeping hospitals from overflowing are still the only controllable factors we have to work with.


Okay then. We are in agreement.
And how do you ascertain that?
When the death rate drops to zero and stays there.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 04:24 PM

Kevin

I think that much easier availability of testing to symptomatic people and that testing leads to quicker admissions.
When those people are admitted, things are done to support their immune systems.

Disclaimer: Don't really know, but that seemed to be what happened in my wife's friends case. And I personally was worried that allergy symptoms might be covid a few weeks ago. I called the doc and was tested almost immediately.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 05:00 PM

From a friend on masks... - I know you'll only believe what you want to believe. But, I'm posting it anyway.

Copied from an OSHA certified friend:
I am OSHA 10&30 certified. I don’t really know why OSHA hasn’t come forward and stopped the nonsense BUT…
I want to cover 3 things
• N95 masks and masks with exhale ports
• surgical masks
• filter or cloth masks
Okay so upon further inspection OSHA says some masks are okay and not okay in certain situations.
If you’re working with fumes and aerosol chemicals and you give your employees the wrong masks and they get sick you can be sued.
• N95 masks: are designed for CONTAMINATED environments. That means when you exhale through N95 the design is that you are exhaling into contamination. The exhale from N95 masks are vented to breath straight out without filtration. They don’t filter the air on the way out. They don’t need to.
Conclusion: if you’re in Stewart’s and the guy with Covid has N95 mask his covid breath is unfiltered being exhaled into Stewart’s (because it was designed for already contaminated environments, it’s not filtering your air on the way out)
• Surgical Mask: these masks were designed and approved for STERILE environments. The amount of particles and contaminants in the outside and indoor environments where people are CLOGG these masks very Very quickly. The moisture from your breath combined with the clogged mask with render it “useless” IF you come in contact with Covid and your mask traps it You become a walking virus dispenser. Every time you put your mask on you are breathing the germs from EVERYWHERE you went. They should be changed or thrown out every “20-30 minutes in a non sterile environment”
Cloth masks: today three people pointed to their masks as they walked by me entering Lowe’s. They said “ya got to wear your mask BRO” I said very clearly “those masks don’t work bro; in fact, they MAKE you sicker” the “pshh’d” me.
By now hopefully you all know CLOTH masks do not filter anything. You mean the American flag one my aunt made? Yes. The one with sunflowers that looks so cute? Yes. The bandanna, the cut-up t-shirt, the scarf ALL of them offer NO FILTERING whatsoever. As you exhale you are ridding your lungs of contaminants and carbon dioxide. Cloth masks trap this carbon dioxide the best. It actually risks health. The moisture caught in these masks can become mildew ridden overnight. Dry coughing, enhanced allergies, sore throat are all symptoms of a micro-mold in your mask.
Ultimate Answer: N95 blows the virus into the air from a contaminated person.
The surgical mask is not designed for the outside world and will not filter the virus upon inhaling through it. Its filtration works on the exhale. (Like a vacuum bag it only works one way)
Cloth masks are WORSE than none.
The CDC wants us to keep wearing masks. The masks don’t work.
*Occupational Safety & Health Administration sited.
The top American organization for safety.
They regulate and educate asbestos workers, surgical rooms, you name it.
If your mask gives you security wear it, just know it is a false sense of security.
If stores stopped enforcing it no one would continue this nonsense.
==============================
If work requires you to wear a mask, OSHA requires that your employer verifies you are receiving the minimum of 19.5% oxygen level by law! Are your oxygen levels being monitored while at work? Are you experiencing dizziness and headaches? This is a written law NOT a recommendation! I guarantee if employees started citing law and demanding their employers follow the law then the masks would go away!
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 05:44 PM

John

Those are the micro arguments that the hoax crowd puts out to declare the whole thing ludicrous.

The bigger picture is airflow, travel and degeneration.

If you have covid and blast out the biggest cough that you can...you are maximizing the contaminated particles that you spew into the air.
If you talk loudly there are fewer.
If you talk softly, still fewer.
If you don't talk, fewer than that.
If there is no air flow where you are, the particles will hang in the air.
If you are outside and the wind is blowing, the sun is presumed to degenerate the particles and the wind will degenerate the particles like cigarette smoke.

If you are in a room where there is no air movement, with no mask where someone coughs 3 feet away...

and you inhale deeply you will maximize your exposure because of the particles in the air and the unimpeded air flow to your lungs.
a mask will impede the air flow through and around the perimeter of the mask
a good tight mask will impede it more.
a good tight mask, which you are breathing softly and measured underneath will impede the air flow more still.

The virus is real. The object is to keep contaminated particles from entering your lungs and body.
Anything that impedes them is something that impedes them.

The micro arguments put out by the hoax crowd are missing the forest because the trees block the view.








Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 05:53 PM

I disagree Martin. But I'll fight to my death defending your right to an opinion. Masks don't protect you, they just make you feel protected.
John smile
Posted By: Dave Rice (D)

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 06:04 PM

Thanks for posting those graphs, Kevin:

I suppose the only reason for the apparent opposite directions is the "lag time" from the initial contact with the virus until the arrival of the "grim reaper" a few days... or more... later.

John and Marty:

Two interesting "arguments" and by my very nature... I hesitate to "take sides"... but "back in the day"... when I was growing up, my Mom would always tell me to cover my nose and mouth when I sneezed. She further explained... if you can't get your handkerchief out fast enough... use both hands. It supposedly kept germs from passing via the sneeze to anyone close at hand. That would lead me to believe Martin's case comes closer to falling on the side of safety than the OSHA standards for masks. Having the mental capacity of a flea in a hailstorm, I could be wrong!

Be safe, stay happy... and occupy your spare time with creative thoughts.

----Dave
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
I disagree Martin. But I'll fight to my death defending your right to an opinion. Masks don't protect you, they just make you feel protected.
John smile


Anything that impedes a stream of air that might take the virus particles from the atmosphere around you and into your lungs...serves to offer you some degree of protection. Both to you and to others.

There is an obviousness to that which seems pointless to try to deny.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 06:09 PM

Yes, it is true that masks don't protect you from infection. They protect others from you. At least that is the theory. ... and yes I do see those n95 masks with one way valves that completely defeat the purpose of you wearing a mask.
Flu masks and surgical mask don't hold up thier effectiveness for long, but they still tamp down large dispersals of virus particles.

I have to admit, I can't vouch for the accuracy of the following chart, but here it is anyway. Tons of variables: closed room or outdoors, proximity, time in contact, etc......................

[Linked Image]
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 06:10 PM

Yes, you already said that Martin. And we could live in a plastic bubble.

Sorry for the sarcasm. I’m just tired of all the crap. And that’s what it is.

John
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Yes, you already said that Martin. And we could live in a plastic bubble.

Sorry for the sarcasm. I’m just tired of all the crap. And that’s what it is.

John


My wife just tried to call her 65 year old friend in the hospital with covid.
My wife was told that she was "not in good shape right now."

She was a hoaxer also John.
She went to a family birthday party at a popular restaurant on the 8th. Within a week, she was one of 4 birthday party attendees tested positive.
Her 72 year old husband is positive but doing fine at home.
She's the oldest of the party attendees at 65. The disease is a beast for her.
I probably wont pass on your "tired of all the crap."

The restaurant is closed for "deep cleaning" because staff was found to have the disease.

Consider this...A female kitchen worker barely making it with 2 or 3 kids and an out of work or absentee father... wakes up one morning and has a fever and cough.
What is the probability that she says to herself..."I can't go into work until I am tested because I might have covid, it would be immoral to infect unsuspecting others?"

Your denials are cult-ish.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 07:32 PM

Sorry about your wife's friend Martin. But, the flu attacks tens of thousands every year. Regardless if they’re wearing a mask or not. The only thing different this year is the media and political hype. And that’s what distorted the blown-out-of-proportion numbers from the previous years. So, I'm still tired of this crap.

I'll be getting a colonoscopy this week. So, on Wednesday I'll be tested for COVID 19. If I'm positive, you can have the last laugh. Though, I'm sure there are many false positives.

The Media, politicians, controllers can't be trusted.

John
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 08:10 PM

I don't want the last laugh.

I hope that your colonoscopy and covid test reveal good results.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
I don't want the last laugh.

I hope that your colonoscopy and covid test reveal good results.


Thanks Martin! A challenging week. I have a dentist appointment tomorrow morning. Just the six-month cleaning. Only one person at a time is allowed in the office. They’re keeping the door locked until they see my mug in the window..

John smile
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/21/20 11:36 PM

It's got nothing to do at all with COVID John LS. The dentist just thinks you're ugly smile
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/22/20 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
It's got nothing to do at all with COVID John LS. The dentist just thinks you're ugly smile



Well, I'm going to have a few words with her tomorrow John. laugh

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/22/20 02:26 AM

Well at least John's consistent .
Posted By: Dave Rice (D)

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/22/20 12:09 PM

Stop giving him credit for being consistent... LOL, FD:

He's a composer and they are finicky old codgers. Let me revise that... in his case, a talented, finicky old codger! Getting ready to have several medical and dental procedures can make anybody edgy... even John!

I hope all goes well for him. ----Dave
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/22/20 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Rice
Stop giving him credit for being consistent... LOL, FD:

He's a composer and they are finicky old codgers. Let me revise that... in his case, a talented, finicky old codger! Getting ready to have several medical and dental procedures can make anybody edgy... even John!

I hope all goes well for him. ----Dave


Ha, ha. Old codger - my wife, Sandra, calls me "old fart". Dental procedure over. Now COVID19 testing on Wednesday and colonoscopy on Friday.

Then I'll try not to ne so crabby after that.

Best, John smile
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/22/20 03:53 PM

Can't wait for you to converse on a post colonoscopy basis John.

And is it exploratory in your case?

Looking for the cause of your "Old Fartitis"?

I say embrace the label and live it proudly. Some time ago I was out for a nice drive when some idiot in a blue audi A4 wagon pulled an agressive move. Now I drive no slouch, an Acura RL, but the Audi is just nimble and fast and the driver just had to show me. After my not quite tirade but more than an outburst, I decided I should simply own the term curmudgeon. I am old enough and have had ample experience curmudgening around in the last few years. Not only when Audi A4 drivers do stupid things

Funny thing is that after I came home and proclaimed my curmudgeonship, no one has called me one since.

And when I claim I am being a curmudgeon, I now get arguments when my family decides I am worse or not quite there....and definitely when I try to use it as a excuse for my behaviour...so pretty well every time I try to make my claim of state.

But defending yourself, and being able to say "what do you expect? I am an old fart" is empowering, so I say live it proudly. Believe you are the Alpha and Omega of Old Fartship, and no one will be able to take it away from you.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/22/20 04:28 PM

"Alpha and Omega of Old Fartship" - wow, now I'll be proud to show the World this John.

Best, John smile
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/22/20 09:36 PM

Now if you really really want to take ownership John, you'd go to a trophy store near you, or go on line, and design and award yourself a trophy by that name.

The "Alpha and Omega of Old Fartship" Award.

Make sure to date it all official like.

I expect you'd place it on your mantlepiece (or wherever your other music stuff is) and can do so only a few days from now if you order today...

Two hands holding an orb would be cool symbolism. With this inscription on the base

John Lawrence Schick
insert date here
Alpha and Omega of Old Fartship

Henceforth this award will also provide clever and most other wits with an opening to address you as "Your Old Fartship" . You may also officially sign birthday and holiday cards and even business letters by writing "You Faithful Fartship" insert name here

Its got a lot going for it John.

Don't know why you're wasting your time by reading this when you could be searching on line for a trophy of two hands holding a globe
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/22/20 09:45 PM

Sounds good John! laugh

Bummer... moved my COVID testing up to tomorrow morning. Which means I'll have to self quarantine for 3 days instead of two.mad

John smile
Posted By: Dave Rice (D)

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/22/20 11:33 PM

Dang... and we were looking forward to a complete description of how things went! LOL! B-T-W... that trophy already has the place of honor on my mantlepiece.

Curmudgeon indeed! What this country needs is a good liar's contest!

Spend that quarantine time wisely, John of Punxatawny and write us a real symphony. "Aire on a Whoopie Cushion" would be nice!

----Dave a.k.a. "Windy McGillicuddy"
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/23/20 05:38 AM

Yeah Dave, I was kind of thinking that you should be "King of the Fartship". John was giving me too much credit.

On another note... There's always a bright side. If I test positive for COVID19, I'll be able to skip my colonoscopy this week (without my doctor giving me a lecture).

John smile
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/23/20 01:27 PM

Just had the COVID19 test. Don't know what all the hype's about. It wasn't bad at all.
[Linked Image]

John smile
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/23/20 01:36 PM

You look thinner in your avatar.
Posted By: Dave Rice (D)

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/23/20 02:49 PM

Morning, John:

Marty is correct... you do look thinner on your "avatar!" Makes me wanna rush right out and have both procedures. LOL! Maybe we could open up one of those websites where folks order CDs from us to cause them to visit the local Vomitorium and lose weight. Naturally, for a considerable fee! Money in the bank to help us pay for our expensive hobby!

I'm dreading that drive to Ft. Worth this afternoon but getting all these questions answered might keep me from scheduling a trip to the local Veterenarian and have him just go ahead and "put me down." I would not be a good prisoner of war... pain turns me into an absolute cry-baby and I'd give away all those secrets I know.

Keep up the good work, guys... we're gonna get through all this stuff eventually. Frankly I'm more worried about those dirty "Commie" statue destroyers than the Wuhan Virus.

----Dave the decrepit old geezer
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/23/20 03:30 PM

Well Dave since you also claim kinship and kingship, you and JLS can enter into a fartnership and share the distinction.

Suggest you have this fartnership agreement drafted by a real lawyer if you're gonna make it complicated like who gets custody of those two hands holding a globe

What you can also do Dave is start a club. You can have a whole ranking as you move through; starting as a Grumble Grouch you then become a Grump before moving on through Codger and Curmudgeon to Old Fart...which comes in junior and senior grade and emeritus status for those long enough in the tooth. The trick is to monetize it like scientology. You only move up in distinction by paying for it, and more for it as you move up in status. You will of course start as an emiritus and pay nothing, one of the perks of that status. You can choose how JLS fits in, but I suggest you be gracious and offer up emeritus status to him as well





Posted By: Dave Rice (D)

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/23/20 03:52 PM

Perks? John:

I love perks. I like your train of thought on this inspiring subject/topic! John L. would be "King" and I would serve gladly as his Subaltern. LOL! Gotta give you credit for originality, my friend. Let's not talk about "long in the tooth" because I fit that category so well. Have a great day and keep that mask in your back pocket (or other handy place) so when you enter the public places... they will be protected.

In our case... I wonder if anyone has come up with a decent design for an Arse Mask? To protect those around us from stray winds?

Later, ----Dave
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/23/20 09:36 PM

A Dave, now you are in the realm of diaper lite.

The Broderrierre is, as we speak, for sale in France for a mere two and a half Euroes each. It gives those French the confidence they need to chase women well into their fartship years
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/23/20 09:43 PM

Wow, gotta stop this old talk. I'm starting to feel like an old fart. I'm still looking through eyes of a teenager.

John smile
Posted By: Dave Rice (D)

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/23/20 11:00 PM

Hi John and John:

I wake up every morning thinking I am still 20 something until my feet touch the floor. Then reality "sets in" and I am immediately brought back to earth... and Curmudgeonville!

Sounds like a great title to a song.

Got great news at the Doc's Office today. I'm not going to die just yet and they are sending me down the road to another specialist. It appears a bone-spur in the socket area of my right hip is the immense pain culprit when I try to walk. Life is good.

Back to work.

----Dave
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/27/20 07:27 PM

Just when you think it can't get more insane, comes along a zipper mask for eating at a restaurant: https://www.pennlive.com/life/2020/...gx-5_84nHUFJltEKCOOwMtYpQfFIw9yHhl8gF9pE

Not only insane, but disgusting as well.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 06/27/20 08:27 PM

Or even more bizarre, Trump admitting defeat already?

https://www.newser.com/story/292841...;utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_top
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/08/20 01:57 AM

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-10000-new-coronavirus-cases-single-day
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/09/20 12:33 PM

Oh Well.

I always said that it was a regional disease as a practical matter.
And now I live in the epicenter of the region.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/09/20 01:19 PM

Sorry to hear that martin. Stay safe and remember to avoid the 3 C's: closed spaces, crowded places, and close-contact settings. This simple step helped in Japan because they were already familiar with the term 3 C's from quality teachings.

It looks like we have blown it as a country and really didn't want to sacrifice anything to stay healthy. I wonder what the people living through the great depression and WWII would think of us now.
The charts that show the US rate of infections vs. our allies (canada, japan, EU,..) is just astounding.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/09/20 02:30 PM

oh No not charts again!

Id like to be on the charts but not this kind of chart......
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/10/20 12:34 PM

Charts, you want charts?

[Linked Image]


Worrisome: The rise in hospitalizations.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/10/20 12:47 PM

The drop in deaths looks good. Trump is touting it. And Medical people seem to be developing some effective therapies with steroids and so forth.
But there is concern.
My wife's friend, for instance, was hit hard by Covid and hospitalized. Trouble breathing, cough, oxygen, never required a ventilator. She was released to home and told by her doctor that her system had made the antibodies, BUT he said that they will fade after about 4 months.
Additionally she has been out of the hospital for two weeks and still feels "way off."
There may be a residual resident of some kind to the disease.

It looks like herd immunity is a fading hope.
A vaccine (that works) looks like the only thing that will return life to normal.

Sidenote: The Republicans were insistent on holding their state convention in Houston at this time. The mayor fortunately and correctly blocked it.
Yet it was this mayor and his police chief who were pandering to thousands of demonstrators crammed together in the streets a few weeks ago.
And then allowed a giant celebrity laden funeral event to take place in a city where you cant even accompany a spouse into an emergency room.

Sanity left the planet in 2020

In other news...I'm doing my frst song with BIAB. The software is a marvel and lots of fun. So...life is not all bad thanks to a songwriting hobby.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/10/20 01:24 PM

Sanity and non-tribal thinking is in short supply these days!!

Feel free to check out my biab CD (it is free!): Kevin @ bandcamp

It shows the approach I took where I added as much as my own instrumentation as I could in order to make things sound "real". As always, the songs and performance are at my normal "OK" levels!
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/10/20 03:23 PM

Buying a new recording software is a good thing to do during a qurantine. You'll be forced to learn it faster and more in depth.

Good luck!
Posted By: Brian Austin Whitney

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Yeah, but they say a person goes on a ventilator for covid they only have a 50% chance of recovering, and from older case in pneumonia and copd like my mother died from, it's not even as high as 50%, it's very bad news having to go on a ventilator.

So beyond using a ventilator I'm not sure what else they do to stop people from.dying. They can certainly help with symptoms

But I agree shutting down the economy and having social distancing was all about keeping hospital visits down. Less contact with others, less spread, less visits to hospitals.



The ventilators are often the final straw killing these people, not the other way around. If you have a serious illness already, the vent is a death sentence more often than not. I don't know where you got 50% (not doubting, you just didn't mention it) I heard initially that 90% were dying with a vent directly from my Surgeon who puts them in. That's as first hand as you can get.

We're seeing a decrease in deaths in large part because they no longer are putting Covid Positive patients into nursing homes with the sickest most fragile people. (duh). Those 5 states accounted for 40% of the total deaths. I expect plenty of lawsuits and more explaining to be demanded. In one state the woman who made the decision to do it first removed her own mother from that facility and nearly the entire nursing home got covid and died. Her Mom was safe though in private care. I hope she is held accountable.

People also need to understand that unless they have a surgical grade mask, they aren't doing any good. Often the warnings right on the mask boxes say does not prevent transmission of Covid. Distancing is certainly a far better choice. If you are elderly, have one of the listed risks or are simply afraid, your best bet is to stay home, on your own property and have everything delivered. BUT.. make sure you are getting out and into the sun. Lay out in a lawn chair for 30 minutes a day with just a bathing suit and sun screen and get your natural vitamin D. Supplements aren't very helpful, but REAL sun is.

A lot of lying and misinformation and virtue signaling and "caren'ing" are going on. Control what YOU can control and you should be just fine. Who cares if someone is or isn't wearing a mask? It is YOUR job to keep your distance from them in the first place. But remember, while you're safe, a tremendous number of people must take ALL the risks for you to have food, electricity, water and all the other things you consume to exist. Most of them are underpaid, treated badly and now insane "customers" are making their lives even more difficult. Don't be one of them. They aren't your servants.
Posted By: Brian Austin Whitney

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
The drop in deaths looks good. Trump is touting it. And Medical people seem to be developing some effective therapies with steroids and so forth.
But there is concern.
My wife's friend, for instance, was hit hard by Covid and hospitalized. Trouble breathing, cough, oxygen, never required a ventilator. She was released to home and told by her doctor that her system had made the antibodies, BUT he said that they will fade after about 4 months.
Additionally she has been out of the hospital for two weeks and still feels "way off."
There may be a residual resident of some kind to the disease.

It looks like herd immunity is a fading hope.
A vaccine (that works) looks like the only thing that will return life to normal.

Sidenote: The Republicans were insistent on holding their state convention in Houston at this time. The mayor fortunately and correctly blocked it.
Yet it was this mayor and his police chief who were pandering to thousands of demonstrators crammed together in the streets a few weeks ago.
And then allowed a giant celebrity laden funeral event to take place in a city where you cant even accompany a spouse into an emergency room.

Sanity left the planet in 2020

In other news...I'm doing my frst song with BIAB. The software is a marvel and lots of fun. So...life is not all bad thanks to a songwriting hobby.


Vaccines become fools gold . This will come around every year like the flu changed so that the Vac will be useless, as most are. The only time I have EVER had the flu was shortly after I got my last Flu vaccine. Never again. I am not suggesting that Vacs are fake or bad. I AM suggesting they've become gigantic business and gigantic business is CORRUPT by nature. Each year they MUST increase profits no matter what. When it is health care, the motivations are too great to allow free market practices to rule the day. VACS should be non profit. Private companies can't be trusted with something so important
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 01:20 PM

I don't have any technical knowledge regarding vaccines. I know that the idea is to trigger the body to create immunities. I believe that vaccines were discovered serendipitously on the battlefield, during the American Civil War.

Regarding the Flu shots.
My wife does them every year and I dont. Years ago, I did some work for a plastic surgeon who said that she never gets flu shots. I think that the gist of her POV was that she doesnt want to be injected with disease every year. Sounded right (enough) to me. I don't like shots anyway. And the idea of getting them from some random med tech at a drugstore is an added layer of concern.

Yet, I have had some acquaintances get "shingles." They said that it was horribly painful and debilitating at times. My doctor told me that I should get the vaccine. I asked my usual questions about vaccines and he still suggested it. I thought about the pain and disruption that two people who I personally knew had suffered...and I got the vaccine. Am comfortable with that decision.

I don't know what the final verdict will be on vaccines and flu shots. But at this point, the Covid virus looks like it may be un-defeat-able without a vaccine. So when one comes out that is reasonably proven to be effective, I will likely take it in order to get my freedom back. Walking around with a mask on and feeling like an "extra" in a SciFy movie is mildly depressing to me.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 02:07 PM

As Brian said in so many words, “powers-to-be can’t be trusted”. You’d think the Sheeples would have figured that out by now.

My morning amazing, gullible, Sheeple’s alert:

Coronavirus testing is a sham. Only created for the controllers to scare the sheeples in line. And it’s working. Numbers, fraudulent numbers, a scare tactic. Four-mile lines and hours of wait time to have a meaningless test, only to be used as a weapon against the Sheeples. The only legitimate time for being tested, is if you’re experiencing symptoms. Then you should go to your doctor and have him diagnose you and treat you if necessary, often it’s just allergies. So, you get the test, and it appears negative, now you can breathe a sigh of relief. Until the next day of worry. Yes, fraudulent numbers are destroying our lives and dividing us. Whether you like President Trump or not, he was correct in stating there’s too much testing. There, that felt good. Now the Sheeples can get back to worrying…

Take control of your life. Don't let the nasty, evil Beast control it.

Best, John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 02:15 PM

I probably had the flu a couple of times, in my 20's. Wasn't official dxed but the cough was so bad that my head felt like it got hit in the head with a bat when I coughed, and chills, then put a sweatshirt on and sweat like a pig.

I got the flu shot before one of them, simply because I was in the doctors office and he asked if I wanted it.

The flu does change but researchers are able to track the changes and predict what strain will be active next season, most of the time they are right, but the vaccine isn't 100% anyway. The idea is to make it a less dangerous disease.

With corona, it's not the flu, similar but not the flu, so it's more of a crap shoot.

Vaccines deliberately let your immune system know there is something there to go out and get, so it causes a reaction but supposedly less than a full blown case. So the choices are, a pretty bad flu, even though I may not have gotten it, or a really bad one with a chance of not getting it at all.

To me the biggest problem may be when we are in the flu season, and corona is still hanging around, or even in a second wave, that could overwhelm us again, maybe worse. We were lucky the flu was nearly gone when this started. Both at same time could be a major problem.






Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 03:41 PM

Lol john, just saw your post. To say that testing causes corona virus, is the same as saying weighing people causes them to be overweight. Or taking people's blood pressure causes them to have high blood pressure. Or testing blood sugar causes people to have diabtetes

The only reason trump wants less testing is to conceal how many people have it.

I haven't been tested, didn't have any symptoms or any reason to, but the only thing not testing does is not tell us how many have it.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 04:52 PM

John

You are so polite and thoughtful and cordial and rational until you get on the illuminati stuff....and then you go full-on tin-foil-hat.

Do I think that there are people out there with big connections and big resources playing everything they can for personal profits and personal gain?
Do I think that they are generally unconcerned with the "general welfare?"

Yes I do. Look at the stock market. The perverts have figured out a way of betting against (shorting) the American economy...for just one instance of infamy.
There is a case to made that this ilk gamed the destruction of Lehman in 2008 for the purpose of making a fortune betting on Lehman's destruction. Might have happened anyway but there is a trail of people throwing kerosene on the fire and then betting on the burn. Funny how the feds let Lehman go but pumped money-from-thin-air into so many others that were just as insolvent.

Yet I can see no reason to believe that this virus is some kind of farce that could be just as easily ignored.
I don't see how you do.

And the point that FD made about taking people weights...to my mind...is solid as a rock.
If Biden and Pelosi and Oman and Bernie and AOC and their world view are the only alternative, I will be voting for Trump in November.
But I know who Trump is. He's a bast..d who plays everything for himself. Including the testing issue. There are "useful idiots" as well as "useful bastards."

This advisory has been presented by the "John is baffling Society?" wink
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 05:08 PM

I see the media is certainly doing their job. Got the sheeples brainwashed and under control.

So far, NO ONE has isolated THE COVID-19 VIRUS. All tests only test for what was originally in the exosome matter of a few 'infected' Chinese people which could, likely, include other RNA/corona-like matter, like colds and flu 'viruses'.

Carry-on with your nonsense. I'll follow my instincts and logic.

John smile
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
I see the media is certainly doing their job. Got the sheeples brainwashed and under control.

So far, NO ONE has isolated THE COVID-19 VIRUS. All tests only test for what was originally in the exosome matter of a few 'infected' Chinese people which could, likely, include other RNA/corona-like matter, like colds and flu 'viruses'.

Carry-on with your nonsense. I'll follow my instincts and logic.

John smile




Believe whatever you want, but wear a mask and breathe softly and evenly when you are around people.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 06:32 PM

I guess the only "good news" about the rising infections/hospitalizations/death rates is that the death rate going forward might only be 1/4 or less than what is was in NYC/NJ. Why? It seems they are doing what they can to keep it out of nursing homes and elderly population where most of the deaths seemed to have occurred in the early days of all this. Of course if it keeps increasing it will sneak in somehow.

Plus, you have to assume that care is better now that when all this started.

While we have to give NY/Cuomo et al an "A" grade on getting their curve back down, they probably deserve an "F" on the upside where they made tons of mistakes. But they really didn't know much about the virus and the feds were no help at all. The people of NY deserve an "A" for their sacrifices to get out of that terrible situation they were in. Of course, it is going to creep back into NY from the rest of the country. No city / state is really in a bubble.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 06:46 PM

People want to say that Trump did not get right with it soon enough?

If he had reacted real early and shut down the nation and no disease showed up (never was a real possibility) ...the same people criticizing him now would have signed petitions that he was a paranoid schizophrenic terrorfied of bats.

Cuomo, in retrospect, is accused of sending elderly to nursing homes where the disease slaughtered them. Which is where I would have sent them. One presumes that it is where the best trained people are who take care of the elderly. Not as it turns out.

No one alive was going to do this perfectly. Not Obama. Not nobody.

3 pandemics from now, the algorithms and computer models will be much more reliable because of lessons learned.

In the meantime leave bats and monkeys and something called pangolins alone.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 06:51 PM

From my bro's comprehensive research: Nobel Prize winner Kary Mullis who 'created' the PCR test for DNA in the 1990s, which is now used to test today for Covid-19, that Mullis had clearly stated should not be used to test for other things like 'viruses'.

John
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 07:45 PM

Lol im with Marty, Johns a great guy but where he gets these ideas from I don't know. How there is anybody still denying this thing I don't know. I kind of understood when since its regional it didn't affect everyone at same time, but now it has affected everyone. Sure some use it for political gain, but others deflect it to avoid political hurt.

Death rate is starting to go back up again, like In f!orida

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...fter-rising-hospitalizations/ar-BB16ypAM
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
People want to say that Trump did not get right with it soon enough? If he had reacted real early and shut down the nation and no disease showed up (never was a real possibility) ...the same people criticizing him now would have signed petitions that he was a paranoid schizophrenic terrorfied of bats.

Cuomo, in retrospect, is accused of sending elderly to nursing homes where the disease slaughtered them. Which is where I would have sent them. One presumes that it is where the best trained people are who take care of the elderly. Not as it turns out. ...


Good points Martin. If we had taken the steps in January/February and nothing happened then instead of praising the feds for their foresight, we would have screamed bloody murder! Human nature, I guess -- we have to see real pain and suffering before we sacrifice. The real problem is that we completely made this a left/right political battle instead of just dealing with the facts as best we could determine them to be.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 08:05 PM

I agree Kevin it never should have been political issue , in fairness for many it wasnt. But if the pain of NY and NJ wasn't enough for the rest of the country to play ball, nothing will be.

I mean I recall seeing the images of spring breakers in florida, and I knowing what I knew here in March and April, I was befuddled.


Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 08:31 PM

Brian, just saw your post buried in the rubble...

The 50% survival in ventilator has been pretty well-defined and standard, if you go on a vent, you're in a battle.

But here is one source.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-ventilators-some-doctors-try-reduce-use-new-york-death-rate-2020-4#:~:text=Experts%20have%20said%20that%20some%2040%25%20to%2050%25,issues%20die%20while%20on%20ventilators%2C%20the%20AP%20reported

Case in point my mother went to hospital twice in two years, first time vent, lived, second time vent, didnt. 50% and the pulmonary guy told me this much.

* I had a good stat article, now I can only find numbers related to corona. What I do know from people who have copd and other pulmonary problems, it's never good when you have to go on one, cause it means your lungs can't keep you alive by themselves. The corona vent numbers, every article shows a different rate.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 09:09 PM

The Patronize Patrol is picking on this old fart. Shame, shame, shame – everyone knows your name! You guys should consider independent research, instead of repeating all the mainstream rants.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 09:17 PM

Haha John, the main point is how does believing alternative views help you?

What do you have to gain by pooh poohing the whole thing?

Hysteria and worry doesn't help I understand, but how does not believing it help?
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 09:39 PM

"It turns out the seasonal cold we all got as a kids was really the Corona virus all along, but they just never tested us."

Truth - there's only one. Alternative views? There's no compromise between life & death.

John
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/11/20 09:42 PM

Okay, I'm leaving again. I'm up against a brainwashed mob.

John
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 11:43 AM

John is on the right path. There is more to this than meets the eye, this is just the first step in a plan that is slowly coming into focus. When or if they get a vaccine, everyone will be required to take it, if not, much of your freedom as you know it now will be taken away. The new normal that politicians are talking about are being slowly accepted by most of the population and if we stray from the new restrictions, we are punished, even frowned upon by our friends and neighbours, to the point that they will report us to the authorities. What does this sound like? Our new normal is the old normal in a number of countries around the world. It's all about control, and control has to be introduced slowly or else it won't be accepted. Fear is a great tool for control, so is pain, so is death.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 12:28 PM

I doubt that people will be required to take a vaccine in the US. No way the law backs that up.
IF...the govt tried to make it mandatory...that would be a new day in a brave new world.

In Canada, I don't know.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Everett Adams
John is on the right path. There is more to this than meets the eye, this is just the first step in a plan that is slowly coming into focus. When or if they get a vaccine, everyone will be required to take it, if not, much of your freedom as you know it now will be taken away. The new normal that politicians are talking about are being slowly accepted by most of the population and if we stray from the new restrictions, we are punished, even frowned upon by our friends and neighbours, to the point that they will report us to the authorities. What does this sound like? Our new normal is the old normal in a number of countries around the world. It's all about control, and control has to be introduced slowly or else it won't be accepted. Fear is a great tool for control, so is pain, so is death.


You're exactly right Everett! It’s difficult for me to believe that so many are buying into this. Our freedom of speech will soon come to an end.

YouTube has now stated that it completely disallows any alternative medical news, research, theories or therapies that don't conform with CDC and WHO accepted guidelines, procedures and methods, etc. on its site. Trying to quell the informed dissenters.

John
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 01:26 PM

YouTube offers a service to the public (for free largely) but it is not a "public service" or a government entity and does not have to guarantee freedom of speech on their platform. .
They have gained massive reach which makes them seem governmental but they aren't. It is a business entity which can elect to put up or screen whatever they want...within legal limits.

If the actual government starts telling YouTube that they are compelled to allow misc, random and unproven "crank" theories to be presented free to the public...that would be much more of an Orwellian state than leaving them alone to put up whatever they decide.

In reality the FCC leaves no one completely alone, but presumably operates within the bounds of the constitution. Most days? Some days?
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 01:55 PM

Yes, that’s their justification and their ran Martin. Internet property rights is a quandary. Needs to be addressed. In the brick & mortar world, there are laws pertaining to monopolies. The bottom-line is these mammoth websites are gaining too much brainwashing power.

John
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Okay, I'm leaving again. I'm up against a brainwashed mob. John


I feel for you John. I belong to a gold stock forum where 98% of the commenters are on your side and they beat me up all the time for being a sheeple (ha, ha).

The Role of Cognitive Dissonance in the Pandemic.
The bottom line: The more you have invested in your beliefs, the harder it is to change (both sides). Yes it is written from someone who believes that the pandemic is real and masks/physical distancing help.



Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 02:29 PM

The people can't even accept a temporary normal, let alone a new one. It was and is people who refused to social distance or make any sacrfice to slow this tbing, and complainers, and people calling for gov to resign.

Yet, they complain when hospitals are full.

So don't worry, nobody will be forced to get a vaccine, health care workers probably will be to work in hospitals which would be an employer choice.

I don't know what you guys are looking at, but it's mostly personal choices that have left us where we are. No leader could stop an entire nation from doing what they want to for a long period of time. And our own leader doesn't even want to do it himself!

a great treatment for Covid will probably relax this thing more than a vaccine will. No one will bother with vaccine if a treatment can cure it anyway.

Here's an idea....keep or sweep. Wear a mask in public,avoid big crowds and wash your hands. Is that so difficult? Can you do it for a few more months even?
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Yes, that’s their justification and their ran Martin. Internet property rights is a quandary. Needs to be addressed. In the brick & mortar world, there are laws pertaining to monopolies. The bottom-line is these mammoth websites are gaining too much brainwashing power.

John


Benjamin Franklin: “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

That can be interpreted and in support of many different perspectives. But viewed from a different direction...make sure that the cure is not worse than the disease.

I've no argument at all about the over-reach of the tech elites. They are globalists whose primary goal is the freedom of their movement across the planet and the minimal restraints on their profits and influence....and the spread of their vision for what civilization should be. e.g. Bill Gates and wife.

But how "the State" fixes that over-reach is also a concern due to the unintended consequences of the fix.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 03:26 PM

"I've no argument at all about the over-reach of the tech elites. They are globalists whose primary goal is the freedom of their movement across the planet and the minimal restraints on their profits and influence....and the spread of their vision for what civilization should be. e.g. Bill Gates and wife Martin

Agree 100% Martin. This is new ground pertaining to property rights. I'm still a registered Libertarian, though I have some disagreements pertaining to property rights.. Should a handful of people be allowed to own the Internet for their personal quests?

John
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 03:33 PM

But what about the rights of youtube? Shouldn't they have controll over something they created and own? Why should people tell YouTube how YouTube can be used?

The entire internet is a bit different, although somebody created the internet too.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
But what about the rights of youtube? Shouldn't they have controll over something they created and own? Why should people tell YouTube how YouTube can be used?

The entire internet is a bit different, although somebody created the internet too.


Then again, should something as powerful as the Internet be privately owned. If I invented and paid for the ultimate nuclear bomb, should I be told what I can and can't do with it. The Internet is just as dangerous.

John
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 03:55 PM

There's very few game changers in tech, so it's hard to relate. But if I was Bill Gates, I would think I'd have the same rights to do what I want to do with my creation, as a songwriter has for his creation.it's just Gates has a much bigger
Vision, and he has a right to think big.

I do see your point, a company that makes a fancy new gun, can't let people use it as they see fit. I'm just saying a game changing entrepreneur still should be in control of their product.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 04:10 PM

Bill Gates is an evil man. He wants to own and control the World. Yeah, a game-changer - changing the name "Earth" to Bill Gate's World. Dangerous man!
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 04:14 PM

I am astounded this is still a contentious issue

The US LEADS the world in Covid cases.... in sheer case numbers and in deaths.

While those in power and the elites and the population at large are bickering and trading blame, it is simply getting worse.

It has been turned into a political fight while it should always have been first and foremost a medical one.

It is also a fight to get the right information into the hands of people. John LS, love ya lots man but your ideas on this are nuts. You say you are a card carrying libertarian, so that tells me a lot, but even libertarians should be able to see that the freedom of choice they hold sacred has to be examined with Covid in mind. You are searching desperately for reasons NOT to act responsibly, reasons you can disbelieve what is before your eyes....and that you are reaching for conspiracy theories to prove your points baffles me

Believe what you want, but wear a face mask, socially distance, wash hands often, look after OTHERS and look after yourself. Be a RESPONSIBLE citizen. Don't look at this as a restraint on your rights. Look on it as a civil responsibility, a patriotic duty.

I have to think that Couch has changed his tune now that AZ has been smacked...but dunno. He's not been around as far as I can see




Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 04:14 PM

And if I posted that remark on Facebook, it would be removed.
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 04:17 PM

The genesis of these policies is to combat the disinformation spread by those with agendas other than combating this virus.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
"I've no argument at all about the over-reach of the tech elites. They are globalists whose primary goal is the freedom of their movement across the planet and the minimal restraints on their profits and influence....and the spread of their vision for what civilization should be. e.g. Bill Gates and wife Martin

Agree 100% Martin. This is new ground pertaining to property rights. I'm still a registered Libertarian, though I have some disagreements pertaining to property rights.. Should a handful of people be allowed to own the Internet for their personal quests?

John


If I understand you...the Libertarian POV is that an individual should be able to do or own whatever they are able and no one should be able to tell them what they can do with it? But... you don't fall completely in-line with that but think that there should be some limitations on the breath and reach of a single individual...yet libertarianism is obsessed with the rights of the individual? Is it not?

Also...the devil is in the details...
If you were to make monopoly of media (or anything else) a libertarian "exception" ("to provide for the general welfare")...would you not be fearful of the unintended consequences of that restraint?

What would such a law look like?
Would you still be a Libertarian?
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 04:22 PM

Still a game game changer.

It's easy to sit back and downplay the geniuses who invented .....microsoft,amazon, youtube, apple, but the world would not be where it is today without them.

We take for granted cause we don't see them when we use our computers, or upload and or download mp3s, and do home recordings, and write resumes and search for jobs, or soft through news.

But somebody made it all possible, then the fcc tells them what to do with it

Evil maybe, but he's still a creator who happened to hit mega big. Beyond our comprenhension. When he started, I'm sure he had alot of obstacles to overcome and nobody cares about that

Many think Trump is an evil man too.

Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Still a game game changer.

It's easy to sit back and downplay the geniuses who invented .....microsoft,amazon, youtube, apple, but the world would not be where it is today without them.

We take for granted cause we don't see them when we use our computers, or upload and or download mp3s, and do home recordings, and write resumes and search for jobs, or soft through news.

But somebody made it all possible, then the acc tells them what to do with it

Evil maybe, but he's still a creator who happened to hit mega big. Beyond our comprenhensiin. When he started, I'm sure he had alot of obstacles to overcome and nobody cares about that

Many think Trump is an evil man too.



My life, both personal and professional is Google. (Alphabet) My life is....

Google Mail
Google Drive
Google Sheets
Google Docs
Google Calender
Google Maps
Google Slides
YouTube
YouTubeTV

Wth the exception of YouTube TV....ALL ARE FREE

And any other apps usually interface with Google, such as Trello.

I think Google is magnificent and deeply appreciate and feel gratitude for the intelligence that created it....BUT...I don't think that intelligence and the money and influence that accompanies it, entitles them to decide what civilization (and my life) should look like.


Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 04:34 PM

They already did and do.

you wouldn't be typing this without them, life is now fundamentally different because of a few pioneering mavericks.

I don't think my point was that they should run the world, but rather they created game changing tech that the fcc shouldn't be able to tell them how they can use their own product.

I don't think elon musk should be able to tell me who to marry or where I should work, or what type of music I should listen to (radio does that job)

And I'm not in disagreement that they shouldn't run civilization, but their technology HAS done that, kids today have no idea of a life before Microsoft or the internet or cell phones and social media..
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
"I've no argument at all about the over-reach of the tech elites. They are globalists whose primary goal is the freedom of their movement across the planet and the minimal restraints on their profits and influence....and the spread of their vision for what civilization should be. e.g. Bill Gates and wife Martin

Agree 100% Martin. This is new ground pertaining to property rights. I'm still a registered Libertarian, though I have some disagreements pertaining to property rights.. Should a handful of people be allowed to own the Internet for their personal quests?

John


If I understand you...the Libertarian POV is that an individual should be able to do or own whatever they are able and no one should be able to tell them what they can do with it? But... you don't fall completely in-line with that but think that there should be some limitations on the breath and reach of a single individual...yet libertarianism is obsessed with the rights of the individual? Is it not?

Also...the devil is in the details...
If you were to make monopoly of media (or anything else) a libertarian "exception" ("to provide for the general welfare")...would you not be fearful of the unintended consequences of that restraint?

What would such a law look like?
Would you still be a Libertarian?


I'm not a pure Libertarian any longer Martin. I have some problems with their philosophy. But the Dems & Reps are even further away from where I am. I'm basically anti-political.

John
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 05:42 PM

Yes. Fd

They have the infrastructure, resources and influence...in place...that create civilization.

But the last few years, there is a movement across the western world offering resistance to the imposition of their personal globalist philosophies on our personal lives.

Notwithstanding all of Trump's warts and insanity...he is the only force in this country that has disrupted their grip on things.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 06:31 PM

In fairness to John S, I was just talking to somebody I haven't spoke to in a while, and he thinks the whole thing is a hoax. It's one thing when somebody types it in a forum, it seems like somebody is just reading to much, but to talk to somebody on the phone, it's diffetent.

I didn't fight too much, cause I don't want rumblings trickling down from others, but it ASTOUNDS me that some people still think this is political hoax, it's like huh? Maybe 4 months ago I might have considered it.

But it seems some don't want it to be true. John is not alone in his disbelief.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
... Notwithstanding all of Trump's warts and insanity...he is the only force in this country that has disrupted their grip on things.


Not interested in a trump bashing session, but how did you come to that conclusion? Social media is more omnipresent today (for better or worse) than 4 years ago.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Originally Posted by Martin Lide
... Notwithstanding all of Trump's warts and insanity...he is the only force in this country that has disrupted their grip on things.


Not interested in a trump bashing session, but how did you come to that conclusion? Social media is more omnipresent today (for better or worse) than 4 years ago.


"disrupted their grip on things"

I didn't say that he had beat them back or stopped them or reversed them. Fact is, he uses Twitter effectively to fight his enemies and maintain the resolve of his base. . Prior to Trump there was nothing in the way of the globalists and their various agendas regarding immigration, International Trade (China) or allowing "allies" to bleed us dry...and in particular, having a sense of American nationalism. You could wave the flag and talk in cliche platitudes sparingly on the 4th of July and express support for soldiers, but you werent really allowed to believe in America as a sovereign nation with borders. And you were not even suppose to actually like America and it's evil past. Nationalistic expressions and pride had become fascism. Evil thoughts in the minds of barbaric and uncultivated people.

Then Trump came down the escalator.
Britain voted Brexit.
etc
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 07:37 PM

Well, I can't say that I agree with your interpretation, but I believe you think things out very well for yourself. If we'd all have to agree all the time, it means we'd be living in a totalitarian society!
Posted By: John Voorpostel

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 07:56 PM

"But it seems some don't want it to be true. John is not alone in his disbelief."

Covid 19 is a factually established particularly virulent respiratory virus...full F^*&^ing stop

Worldwide scientists and researchers and other smart people (including many wealthy people like Bill Gates) are working on first stopping its spread, mitigating its effects on people, and on finding a cure

Covid is a fact that will "meet up" with an indivual through some circumstance, time and place. In essense it's "reality" meeting up with you. It may not be the virus itself, it could be a repercussion of its existence...like living through what should we be doing about it?

Maybe John will not get the virus which is great. Maybe it is somehow transmitted to him in which case God speed to a recovery

In the mean time the fact of Covid has not met up with John and he can speculate all he wants to. It actually means nothing to Covid.

As for the hoaxers and denyers, for whatever reason, they can not or don't want to deal with Covid the fact, the reality.

But like the truth to Mulder & Scully, Covid is out there
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 09:01 PM

I’m not the least worried about getting the flu John. Or dying. In case you haven’t heard, we’re all plaque by a terminal condition. None of us are going to get out of this alive. My childhood hero, Alfred E. Neuman, said it best …

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Well, I can't say that I agree with your interpretation, but I believe you think things out very well for yourself. If we'd all have to agree all the time, it means we'd be living in a totalitarian society!


I don't think that people in totalitarian societies agree all the time. They're just afraid to say otherwise. You're so right about about how fortunate we are to live in this country. Have a very good evening Kevin.

Marty
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 09:52 PM

Most of the deniers are republican. They believed from day one that it was a hoax to get rid of trump, and haven't let that idea go. How I think it's more a matter of not wanting to look foo!ish, so keep denying it.

I k ow it's established, but political lines have been drawn
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/12/20 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Most of the deniers are republican. They believed from day one that it was a hoax to get rid of trump, and haven't let that idea go. How I think it's more a matter of not wanting to look foo!ish, so keep denying it.

I k ow it's established, but political lines have been drawn


I agree with that. Most of the hoaxers are repubs. But the people who will not wear a friggin' mask cut across all political persuasions.
I see likely dems out the kazoo not wearing masks. I suppose they reserve the right to blame Trump for all of it, even though they dont.

2020 is the strangest year that I have ever lived through...without a close second.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/13/20 12:39 AM

Yeah,can you imagine come new years, the new years eve shows winding down the highlights of the year....there won't be many.

But they'll have plenty of deaths to list.

Strange indeed, imagine this happened as recently as say 1988, imagine how hard this quarantine would have been.

It's a freaking cakewalk now, and the only reason people are fed up is because they can't dine out and take a picture of their meal, and post it on Facebook .
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/13/20 12:53 AM

Truth
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/13/20 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Yeah,can you imagine come new years, the new years eve shows winding down the highlights of the year....there won't be many.

But they'll have plenty of deaths to list.

Strange indeed, imagine this happened as recently as say 1988, imagine how hard this quarantine would have been.

It's a freaking cakewalk now, and the only reason people are fed up is because they can't dine out and take a picture of their meal, and post it on Facebook .


No eating out!!!


[Linked Image]
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/13/20 01:29 AM

Well, least we may have something resembling a baseball season. Though 60 game season, I think your gonna see some surprise teams in the playoffs cause you don't need to stay not for long

Basketball, s really weird, the worst state to be in right now is a Florida and that's where they are planning the playoff bubble.

Football, there's too many people on sideline to make it worrk, college is pretty much done this year.

And no fans at any game, any league. I can't imagine football without a crowd, I mean the crowd causes all those false starts and turnovers.

2020 is all too surreal.
Posted By: niteshift

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/13/20 07:26 AM

2020 is the strangest year that I have ever lived through...without a close second.

I would have to agree Martin, it's all nuts.

I would have to say that this is not the time for politics and agendas. This is a very serious MEDICAL issue.

To those "deniers" who don't think it's happening, just walk into an ICU ward,and that may change your opinion.

cheers, niteshift
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/13/20 10:47 AM

I don't believe they will force you to take the vaccine but there are other ways to push you to take it. Bill Gates has been quoted as saying when they get the vaccine and those that take it will be given a certificate showing that they have taken it, so they can go back to work and have a normal life, but those that refuse to take it will not be allowed to return to work or a normal life. Maybe friends and neighbours will start to shun you to shame you into taking it. It is almost at that stage now if you don't wear a mask or social distance. You get some hard stares from people, some even mouth off to you. Fear and brainwashing go hand in hand, snitching on people is what keeps dictators in power. Taking away freedoms a little at a time give them power.

I know Covid 19 is not a hoax, where it came from and how it started is still a mystery. But who was it that said, never let a pandemic go to waste. This pandemic fell right in the lap of some people behind the scenes that are taking advantage of it, who, I have my suspicions , why, again I have my suspicions, time will tell if I am right.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/13/20 11:56 AM

I think many people think it's another flu, and since they survived the flu before think there's no concern.

If leprosy suddenly had a resurgance, NOBODY would object to qurantines. People would be homicidal if they saw a bunch of lepers on the beach.

So it must mean many don't think it's that deadly. Why they do t feels t the threat I don't know, but it's not the flu, so where are they getting their ideas from.

As far as liberties, what about the rights of smokers when they can't smoke in a public venue? Non smokers don't complain about this, they love it.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/13/20 01:48 PM

"If leprosy suddenly had a resurgance, NOBODY would object to qurantines. People would be homicidal if they saw a bunch of lepers on the beach" - Fdm

Apples & oranges Fdr! There's a definite test/diagnosis for leprosy. There is no reasonable test for COVID19 (only coronavirus). So far, NO ONE has isolated THE COVID-19 VIRUS. All tests only test for what was originally in the exosome matter of a few 'infected' Chinese people which could, likely, include other RNA/corona-like matter, like colds and flu 'viruses'. Nobel Prize winner Kary Mullis who 'created' the PCR test for DNA in the 1990s (which is now used to test today for Covid-19) had clearly stated should not be used to test for other things like 'viruses'. But that doesn't seem to matter. The number's game they're playing with these test results are doing their job - scaring people into submission.

John
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/13/20 02:04 PM

""But it seems some don't want it to be true. John is not alone in his disbelief." - John V

It's not as simple as disbelievers’ verses believers John. I believe this is one of many bad flu years. The hoax is the way the media and politicians are blowing this out of proportion. When institutions and cities are rewarded for larger “numbers”, when politicians see this as a chance to sway the vote, when people of power bathe in the limelight, etc.… the truth becomes distorted. If this hoax was perpetrated in the same manner last flu season, there would have been similar results. Under these circumstances, any rational man would distrust the numbers and the severity of the situation.

Peace, John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/13/20 02:13 PM

Well, it was supposed to be apples and oranges to make the point. People don't respect the threat I guess cause so many have no ptoblems. But nobody knows how they will react when they get it.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/13/20 04:13 PM

John

Our entire lives may be a "Matrix" movie dictated by an extra-terrestrial.
Yet, though an illusion, illness and pain seem very real.

Believe what you want, but put that mask on when you go out.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/13/20 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Martin Lide
John

Our entire lives may be a "Matrix" movie dictated by an extra-terrestrial.
Yet, though an illusion, illness and pain seem very real.

Believe what you want, but put that mask on when you go out.


That analogy is apples & fruitcake John. Ha, ha. Yeah, illness & pain has always been real. Don't know how it relates to apples & fruitcake though.

Wear a mask? Of course, I'm a law-abiding citizen.

John smile
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/13/20 11:06 PM

Fruitcake...meatloaf...whatever?

Just wear the mask.. smile
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/14/20 12:31 AM

Who was that masked man?

John smile
Posted By: Moosesong

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/14/20 04:22 AM

if America were a giant nudist colony, then maybe people would have a reason to complain about being forced to wear masks. but we are not nudists, and no one seems to complain much about having to wear clothes when out in public.

even though it does nothing whatsoever to slow any disiase, we must wear pants.

so now we are asked to wear a mask in addition to pants? what is the big deal?
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/14/20 10:39 AM

Is it true that you have to pay to be tested for the virus.?
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/14/20 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Everett Adams
Is it true that you have to pay to be tested for the virus.?



I only know what I see, here and there, on TV.
In Houston, it seems that most test providers have a fee of just under $200.
I've heard of free sites on tv but not sure how many of them that there are.

There was a local news story recently about someone who took the test through their insurance and was sent a bill by the insurance company for $6000.
There must be more to the story that explains that.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/14/20 01:05 PM

Most insurances and Medicare cover it. CVS & Walgreens offer it free. I sure it varies from state to state.

John smile
Posted By: Everett Adams

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/14/20 06:20 PM

I heard a story of a man that had all the symptoms of Covid 19 who went to the hospital to be tested but because he did have the fee he was turned away. How many more would he infect if he didn't self isolate. testing here is free.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/14/20 06:30 PM

In ny area they run the same commercial urging people to get tested, saying it's safe, easy and free....

I've read that there is some concern that the opening of sports leagues is going to take all the testing resources away from civilians.

Basicly if your area is a hot zone it will become free
Posted By: Brian Austin Whitney

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/15/20 06:54 AM

Actually the first batch of tests for it came from China and they found the tests themselves HAD Corona virus on them. They used them to demonstrated that fruits various animals etc. all tested positive for CV. That is a fact.

Testing doesn't need to CAUSE it, the truth is way more people have already had it so more testing results in more positives. They are not symptomatic. The WHO now tells us people who are not symptomatic pose almost no threat to others. So what are we doing? Masks should be worn for people with symptoms, whether it is covid or flu or a bad cold. The death rates have plummeted more and more as more people test positive. The deaths are decreasing both in actual numbers per day and vasts drops in %s to numbers lower than flu. AND don't forget, they openly state they count ANY death where someone had CV as a death FROM CV. This they admit. . So the numbers are nonsense.

I am concerned that they still haven't determined if this was intentional or accidental. I fear they'll have another "accident" of something FAR more deadly just before the election. Unlike some, I believe it is real. I also believe absence evidence it was an accident, we should proceed as if this was intentional. That means they are capable of doing much worse. Imagine if in October they release Covid 20 and it kills 1 in 2 people. Or 1 in 10 there will be no resistance to anything they want to do to the world. I recall that accidental open mic comment of the Fox News reporter who said after a press meeting in the white house that his cohort shouldn't worry, they've all been vaccinated already. No mainstream media on either side picked up on it of course. All media is propaganda for the masses and they work together.
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/15/20 04:21 PM

Yet, in nj and ny you weren't allowed to get tested unless you had symptoms and mainly a fever. You were turned away.

I think The death rate has gone down because New York and New Jersey showed the rest of the country how to deal with this. There was no precedent. Now they know what to do more than they did four months ago and it results in better outcomes.

it's very possible somebody engineered this, but the grimmer reality is mankind really has no defense against new diseases. We're great at treating and using what's already here, but helpless against drug resistant and totally new bugs. And if something new came along We 'd be in bad shape again.

Aids could have whiped us off the planet, but since it was an std only, we were lucky.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/15/20 04:39 PM

I’ve seen several posts stating the number of coronavirus deaths is the same number of all deaths for the last three-month period in the USA. It’s difficult to find a CDC comparison (probably for good reason). If true, there can only be two possibilities. One, they’re reporting every death, regardless of the cause, as a coronavirus death. Or, there has only been coronavirus deaths the last three months, and nobody died of anything else. Where do you go for answers when the people in charge are liars?

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/15/20 04:51 PM

The one reliable indicator is looking at how full the hospitals are. I have a lady friend who is a nurse here in nj, and she reported NO covid hospitalization last week. As opposed to the height of it when she was working 60 hours a week.

I understand Arizona an Texas are facing similar problems now.

We have lost 135 k to covid compared to flu which killed 35k in a typical year.

Places like Florida apparently had a different criteria, but it's all semantics, this is a pandemic that seems to take turns where it hits next, india is getting hammered now.

You don't want the possibility of death any more than the death itself. so wear a mask and stop singing lolllll

When I walk down the street I often hear guys yelling raps really loud, and I think of the scientists who say it spreads faster the louder you talk

Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/15/20 05:35 PM

"We have lost 135 k to covid compared to flu which killed 35k in a typical year" - Fde

There we go again with the reliable number's game. Ha, ha.

John laugh
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/15/20 06:31 PM

If the flu numbers are not right, then they shouldn't bother counting anything. It's the same problem of figuring out who died of flu.

How come nobody ever challenged the flu death rate before? Why is that a solid gold number?
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/15/20 07:19 PM

"If the flu numbers are not right, then they shouldn't bother counting anything. It's the same problem of figuring out who died of flu" - Fde

Now you're getting it Fde!

"How come nobody ever challenged the flu death rate before?" - Fde

Because there were no ulterior motives for doing it before.

John smile
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/15/20 07:33 PM

Ulterior motives being to discredit corona???? Ahhh

See, people wanted it to be another flu, but once it exceeded flu numbers, then something must be wrong with testing....lol

Anyone who thought this was the flu, they were wrong.
Posted By: Kevin Emmrich

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/15/20 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
If the flu numbers are not right, then they shouldn't bother counting anything. It's the same problem of figuring out who died of flu.
How come nobody ever challenged the flu death rate before? Why is that a solid gold number?


Because it isn't a solid gold number. They don't count all flu deaths in real-time like they are trying to do with covid-19 (with varying degrees of success). They do some real-time flu stuff, but a lot of it is back analysis of hospital data and they look at excessive deaths due to pneumonia and stuff like that: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/how-cdc-estimates.htm

I think 80% of the covid deaths (don't hold me to that number) are from people with co-morbidities. If someone has diabetes/copd/cancer and they get covid and die, the cause of death is complications from diabetes/heart/lung etc with covid being the final accelerator. Chances are a lot of the folks dying from covid with co-morbidities could have lived for quite a bit longer. But we just don't know, it is an inexact science, but it is the best we have. After covid is all over, the CDC will recalculate the deaths based on excessive death statistics.
Posted By: Dave Rice (D)

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/15/20 09:36 PM

Interesting theories and comments so far, Gang:

I have a sneaking suspicion that until we get accurate tests that can be administered and then provide almost immediate results of whether or not the virus is present... or it's cloned cousin, etc. ... we are navigating by the seat of our pants. While I am wishing... if such a test would give a reading of how long the victim has been inhabited by this nasty bug... we could determine whether to take Hydroxichloriquin or something more effective... or go straight to the hospital. These tests should be fairly inexpensive and widely available so we could have a National Testing Day (or series of days) so we could make an accurate prediction of what lies ahead. It would help us measure the impact of the virus against our population(s).

I agree with JLS... the politicization of all this agony is awful. We need to pull together, support our police and first line responders and keep the logistics of doing our best to cut this thing off at the pass in our minds... first and foremost. All lives matter!

Yes, Moose... wearing that darn mask is a small price to pay when out in public. I sure don't envy those poor clerks who must wear them an entire shift. Add eye-glasses into the mix and it is a real ordeal.

Stay well folks... and keep writing or whatever it takes to lead you to a happy place.

----Dave
Posted By: Fdemetrio

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/15/20 09:48 PM

Kevin co-morbities are involved in flu too. Nobody dies from the flu, they die from complications of flu. Some will die from pneumonia...which isn't a cause either ...but complications of pneumonia .

Others from heart faliure, others from lung faliure, others from sepsis and kidney failure, some get strokes and other things, all branching from getting the flu, all those can happen from a bad cold too...in susceptible people.

So, its the same exact thing in covid, only covid had so many more dead people to figure out.

But now it's the testing, before that it was nothing worse than a flu.

They may well find out there were more deaths than we thought too.

Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/15/20 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
"If the flu numbers are not right, then they shouldn't bother counting anything. It's the same problem of figuring out who died of flu" - Fde

Now you're getting it Fde!

"How come nobody ever challenged the flu death rate before?" - Fde

Because there were no ulterior motives for doing it before.

John smile



Because of the way that it has always been calculated.

from memory...

My doc (Stanford grad) explained to me that in a typical flu year they count the deaths in flu months and subtract the death count in non flu months. The difference is the presumed death due to the flu. It's not a case by case tally.

The methodology in a pandemic event becomes more precise.
Posted By: Sunset Poet

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/15/20 10:47 PM

I think that FD has it right.

There are a lot of stats that can be presented with a political slant.

But daily hospitalizations and daily deaths are very finite. If the number of either is increasing and those people test positive, they may be diabetic or whatever else, but they were not likely to die this month from diabetes. My father lived to 97. If he had contracted this at 81, it would likely have killed him. That's 16 years that would have mattered very much to him.
Posted By: John Lawrence Schick

Re: Edit: ALL Corona Virus Post MUST Go Here - 07/16/20 01:12 PM

I forgive all the sheeples, because they're just not strong enough to resist...


Brainwashing Steps 1 – 3

1. Social Influence. Social influence happens every minute of every day. Like the Media blasting us with fear and