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#939457 - 01/06/12 08:18 PM When a Collaborator goes missing....what then?  
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KimberlyinNC Offline
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KimberlyinNC  Offline
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Hi guys...I have been trying since middle of Sept. to find and talk with a co-collaborator but to no avail.

We did a song together, it turned out pretty good, he posted it on another site and then disappeared...now what do I do..take my lyrics and re-do it?? I really liked it...very frustrating and we had no bad words to one another...

has this happened to anyone else and what do you do? I do know NOW when I collaborate I get as much info as I can, phone numbers, addresses...to protect myself and in case, in the one in a million chance someone liked our song I could reach my co-writer..


I just pray he is ok...very frustrating...


Kimberly



*Always open to collaborations on my lyrics.. with singers and musicians, but PLEASE contact me before putting work into one--in case someone else has it..thanks!!**
BMI Member All Rights Reserved
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#939461 - 01/06/12 08:29 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
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Kevin Emmrich Offline
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I have a co-writer on a few songs that I may not be able to contact. Maybe he is homeless now or just in-transit. I am doing a CD now of just "kevin" songs so I don't have to worry about co-writers, but CD #2 will have at least three songs with this co-writer.

Since the CD's won't make any money, I am not going to worry about it. If they do make money, it will be easy enough to figure out the royalties to set aside.

But I probably will be able to make contact again, so it will be a non issue (maybe). Remember, as a co-writer you can actually enter non-exclusive deals without the consent of the other copyright holders. Not a good practice, but allowable (I think!).

Kevin


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @ FAWM 2018)
#939465 - 01/06/12 09:41 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Colin Ward Online content
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I did a co-write with two others, my buddy in the Blue Island Beer Club and a stranger from Texas. The stranger disappeared just about the time we had it finished. After about a year, we heard from him. He had contracted cancer and had been doing battle with it. He has since disappeared again so I really don't know what to think. Meanwhile the song is out on a CD (not a very lucrative one unfortunately) and we do owe him a few bucks.

We decided to forge ahead with the song and deal with his absence later if he surfaced. Don't know how it will turn out.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#939485 - 01/07/12 12:08 AM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
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Mike Caro Substudio Offline
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Are you both on the copyright?

I see this situation as this, either one of you can try to do whatever you want with the song without any discussion. But if it comes to signing anything especially re-assigning copyrights or anything big like that you will need to touch base.

But pitch it all you want, if you land something that pays something it's up to the individual writer to register with ASCAP or BMI anyway to get paid.

Or if your paid you can be nice and save your co-writers cut.
Co-writes can be a major pain in the but for many reasons, this is one of them.



Thanks!
Peace Mike
Sub

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#939515 - 01/07/12 12:46 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: Mike Caro Substudio]  
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Kolstad Offline
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A post like this seems like a good first step, Kimberly.
Maybe also try looking him up at the social networks, like Facebook.

You can also check is he's registered with a PRO here (so you can submit his CAE/IPI number to publishers ect.):

http://repertoire.bmi.com/startpage.asp
http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?mode=search

SOCAN members are found in the ASCAP search engine as well.


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#939640 - 01/08/12 04:36 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: Kolstad]  
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KimberlyinNC Offline
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Song---thanks, I looked him up under both and no luck...I should have gotten that info first and foremost, live and learn..


Thanks Colin---something to consider...

Kevin--[quote]non-exclusive deals without the consent of the other copyright holders. Not a good practice, but allowable [/quote]
That is something I have never heard of...then I would keep up with royalties for him is a song was picked up? How does that work...do you know? What does one do in the event a collaborator passes away? I know, morbid thought but something that has come into my mind...wouldn't the family get the royalties then and how can I protect myself, my family as well as their families in this case?

Mike-- This particular song has not been sent to copyright office yet...we were doing rough cuts of it, before sending it to them...now what?

I can always count on JPF to help me out...you guys are super cool.. grin

Kim

I know all of this may very well be a moot point BUT I am trying to learn what I am legally able to do, and also to protect myself..and do it right...in the event a song was picked up..though it is not likely...I know crazy


*Always open to collaborations on my lyrics.. with singers and musicians, but PLEASE contact me before putting work into one--in case someone else has it..thanks!!**
BMI Member All Rights Reserved
http://www.littleikepublishing.com
Email for Song Business Only
littleikeproductions@hotmail.com
#941496 - 01/20/12 04:18 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
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Ande Rasmussen Offline
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Ande Rasmussen  Offline
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Make a good faith effort to reach your collaborator.
I've lost track of several of mine over the years.

I'd probably just leave it alone and go write other songs.




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#941504 - 01/20/12 04:29 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: Ande Rasmussen]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Hmm... don't know what to tell you Kim. I suppose you could keep your collaborator's split in a bank account for the day he/she shows up. Hmm...

I always wondered what happens when a music library publisher dies. Many music libraries are owned by only one person. As long as there's a reversion clause it shouldn't be a problem. But if not one, then what?

John smile

#941707 - 01/21/12 06:57 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
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Pat Hardy Offline
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This is why I won't collaborate with anyone without an agreement that deals with contingencies like this.

So, word to the wise, get a collab agreement before collaborating.

P

#941753 - 01/22/12 01:24 AM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: Pat Hardy]  
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"Tampa Stan" Good (D) Offline
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HiDee Mz Kim!

I always tell my Co-Writers I expect them to contact me Annually/I'll try to do the same their ways.

IF they fail to do-so, or MY letters get returned, I'm technically Off-The-Hook...IF something miraculously DOES get cut...& yeah, we'll settle-up IF it makes some loot...at a later date when I DO hear-back. (You're only gonna hear from their lawyer IF a song REALLY makes some money..otherwise...big waste of time.) JMO!

Good Luck with your No-Show!~
Best Wishes/Big Hugs,
Stan

#942110 - 01/24/12 06:16 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: "Tampa Stan" Good (D)]  
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in2piano Offline
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If after all that a guilty conscience prevails, leave a provision in your will that states "your welcome to contact me in the afterlife and we can discuss this further...in the meantime don't bother me I'm decomposing".

Larry


Can't find the stairway to 'heaven'...but I know where the elevator is.

Each of us has cause to think with deep gratitude of those who have lighted the flame within us" - Albert Schweitzer.
#942128 - 01/24/12 08:38 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: in2piano]  
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KimberlyinNC Offline
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KimberlyinNC  Offline
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I like that idea...piano....very cute
laugh
smile Thanks guys.

Kimberly


*Always open to collaborations on my lyrics.. with singers and musicians, but PLEASE contact me before putting work into one--in case someone else has it..thanks!!**
BMI Member All Rights Reserved
http://www.littleikepublishing.com
Email for Song Business Only
littleikeproductions@hotmail.com
#942130 - 01/24/12 09:00 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
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Roy Cooper Online content
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I had this happen to me a long time ago Kimberly.

At that time I got a publishing deal with one of the majors and explained about the co-writer being on the missing list.

They made the agreement and included him via some proxy contract, whatever that is.

Maybe the UK is different.

Personally if something good happens, then make provisions for the co-writer if and when he/she turns up.

Not enougyh reason to shelve a song. In my opinion.

God Bless Roy and Helen


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#947540 - 02/26/12 01:39 AM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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KimberlyinNC Offline
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Thanks Roy, I think I will go ahead and pitch it, see if anything happens. I am MOSTLY worried about him though. He had some illnesses earlier but he is very young. I hope he is ok.

It concerns me most if he is ok or not...

Kim


*Always open to collaborations on my lyrics.. with singers and musicians, but PLEASE contact me before putting work into one--in case someone else has it..thanks!!**
BMI Member All Rights Reserved
http://www.littleikepublishing.com
Email for Song Business Only
littleikeproductions@hotmail.com
#947542 - 02/26/12 01:50 AM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
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December X Offline
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Typical guy, takes off when u need him most.

Well, maybe you could try googling the title of your song in the rare event he may have the song posted somewhere.

I would pitch it, if it becomes a smash hit, hell find you soon enough!


#947572 - 02/26/12 11:01 AM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: December X]  
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Caroline Offline
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Caroline  Offline
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Texas
I went missing last year and my computer died too.
I think what we should all be doing is ( c ) the song, exchange pro info and address/ phone # and both sign an " in the event of illness, death or inabity to contact for whatever reason" agreement.

Caroline


Caroline


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Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them! (Dove Dark Chocolate)
#947573 - 02/26/12 11:22 AM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
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niteshift Online content
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Hey Kimberly,

Is there anything riding on this ?

If there is, use your better judgement, lie and say you're the sole writer and fix him up later.

If not, oh well, too bad..... just move on.

Is there a more practical solution ?

cheers, niteshift

#947751 - 02/27/12 04:18 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: Caroline]  
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KimberlyinNC Offline
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KimberlyinNC  Offline
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North Carolina
Originally Posted by Caroline
I went missing last year and my computer died too.
I think what we should all be doing is ( c ) the song, exchange pro info and address/ phone # and both sign an " in the event of illness, death or inabity to contact for whatever reason" agreement.

Caroline


I agree Caroline and that is the case now for me. Sometimes a person will act put off by that but I figure if one is not willing to offer that info, then they don't want to go "into business" with me as a co-writer. wink


*Always open to collaborations on my lyrics.. with singers and musicians, but PLEASE contact me before putting work into one--in case someone else has it..thanks!!**
BMI Member All Rights Reserved
http://www.littleikepublishing.com
Email for Song Business Only
littleikeproductions@hotmail.com
#947753 - 02/27/12 04:20 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: niteshift]  
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KimberlyinNC Offline
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KimberlyinNC  Offline
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Originally Posted by niteshift
Hey Kimberly,

Is there anything riding on this ? Well, I had a maybe on it from a pitch, but I am thinking now, what if they say YES, and I can't reach this guy to sign papers, then what..

If there is, use your better judgement, lie and say you're the sole writer and fix him up later. He is already listed as the co-writer on the information provided...and on copyright
If not, oh well, too bad..... just move on.

Is there a more practical solution ?

cheers, niteshift


Thanks Nite. I suppose I will find out the hard way when or if they decide they want the song.


*Always open to collaborations on my lyrics.. with singers and musicians, but PLEASE contact me before putting work into one--in case someone else has it..thanks!!**
BMI Member All Rights Reserved
http://www.littleikepublishing.com
Email for Song Business Only
littleikeproductions@hotmail.com
#947757 - 02/27/12 04:58 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
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Kevin Emmrich Offline
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Crozet, VA
Brand New Country Star
Songwriters: Vernon Arnold, Jimmy Buffett

If I am not mistaken, Jimmy wrote "Brand New Country Star" with someone and he just couldn't remember who. So they released the song as written by JB and then waited around. When Vernon showed up one day at the the record company -- they just said they were expecting him and his royalties were in escrow. Once they found out the co-writer's name, he was added to the credits in subsequent editions. I can't find this story on the internet, but I swear I heard this come from JB himself during an interview (or something).


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @ FAWM 2018)
#953483 - 04/05/12 04:30 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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HoboSage Offline
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If you are not a co-author of the music and have no assignment of those copyrights from him or a license from him to use the music, then I don't see how you or anyone else can use his music without his consent and not infringe his copyrights as the sole author of the music, any more than he could use your lyrics. However, if you ARE also a co-author of the music, then you have the same right to exploit those copyrights as he does, but he would still be entitled to his rightful share of profits from exploiting those copyrights.

Last edited by HoboSage; 04/06/12 11:34 AM.
#953714 - 04/06/12 10:39 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Mike Dunbar Offline
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Nashville Tennessee
Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
Brand New Country Star
Songwriters: Vernon Arnold, Jimmy Buffett

If I am not mistaken, Jimmy wrote "Brand New Country Star" with someone and he just couldn't remember who. So they released the song as written by JB and then waited around. When Vernon showed up one day at the the record company -- they just said they were expecting him and his royalties were in escrow. Once they found out the co-writer's name, he was added to the credits in subsequent editions. I can't find this story on the internet, but I swear I heard this come from JB himself during an interview (or something).


Kevin, that's a true story, just about as you said it. Vernon, aka Austin Church, is a friend of mine. He hosted a TV show here called the Chili Shack that I wrote comedy bits for. He now lives in Florida.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#993781 - 01/29/13 08:37 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 596
Pat Hardy Offline
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Pat Hardy  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 596


How to handle this is really your call, you can do it and take your chances,
or find a new lyric.

I have in my collaborator agreements:

"Should lyricist become unavailable for contract signing, lyricist grants composer power of attorney ( attorney-in-fact ) rights for the song......."

With such a clause, you can do contracts without the other contributor should they become unlocatable, or not locatable by the deadline ( they could be in the hospital, for example, and publisher gives you 24 hours to sign, which can happen in sync license deals ).

Again, check with a lawyer on this.

Patrick


#993783 - 01/29/13 08:43 PM Re: When a Collaborator goes missing....what then? [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
Joined: Sep 2011
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Pat Hardy Offline
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Pat Hardy  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 596
Originally Posted by KimberlyinNC
Originally Posted by Caroline
I went missing last year and my computer died too.
I think what we should all be doing is ( c ) the song, exchange pro info and address/ phone # and both sign an " in the event of illness, death or inabity to contact for whatever reason" agreement.

Caroline


I agree Caroline and that is the case now for me. Sometimes a person will act put off by that but I figure if one is not willing to offer that info, then they don't want to go "into business" with me as a co-writer. wink


Bingo. I tell co-writers is not "mistrust" to sign agreements, I mean, we sign agreements all the time, real estate, carpet cleaning, credit card applications, putting little Johnny in a nursery school, sheesh, what's the problem?

But, its not about mistrust, it's about getting everything on the up and up, and nothing does it better than having something in writing, and I always say, "mutually acceptable" agreement.

Pat Hardy Lockwood



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