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#984390 - 11/17/12 05:57 AM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: December X]  
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Nope. I definitely saved the voicemail. I will need it in case I need to take legal action against you.

#984391 - 11/17/12 06:04 AM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Gregory Watton]  
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Originally Posted by Gregory Watton
Nope. I definitely saved the voicemail. I will need it in case I need to take legal action against you.


Yeah and when A voice expert tells its not me, and the phone companu says its not me, I will then turn around and sue you for every dime you make as a songwriter.

Oh wait...

#984392 - 11/17/12 06:07 AM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: December X]  
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The voicemail I got said (old man red neck voice not unlike the old man from Family Guy), "Hi. This is December. I'm calling because I don't like how you backed up Jody. It's not cool. Talk to you later."

#984393 - 11/17/12 06:11 AM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Gregory Watton]  
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Originally Posted by Gregory Watton
The voicemail I got said (old man red neck voice not unlike the old man from Family Guy), "Hi. This is December. I'm calling because I don't like how you backed up Jody. It's not cool. Talk to you later."


you used to make me crack up when you werent trying to be funny. Now you try and not a laugh.

Gone to bed goober

#984394 - 11/17/12 06:28 AM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: December X]  
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Your voice in the voicemail appeared to have a similar dialect to the creepy old man character from Family Guy. I'm dead serious though. I've already contacted Brian and I gave him a heads up about your alarming behavior.

#984455 - 11/17/12 04:49 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Gregory Watton]  
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Knowing greg outside of the JPF boards, I'm going to say I doubt he'd make something like this up. A rather unfortunate turn if you ask me.

As for Tom and his thread, I hope it can continue in a more open discussion of earning a living at music. That is the point of this.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#984461 - 11/17/12 05:48 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides
Knowing greg outside of the JPF boards, I'm going to say I doubt he'd make something like this up. A rather unfortunate turn if you ask me.

As for Tom and his thread, I hope it can continue in a more open discussion of earning a living at music. That is the point of this.


we could finish the conversation in youtube, put it right next to your video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bcqLxrSL2E

LOL

http://www.sesac.com/News/Article.aspx/2012/Spring/Jody%20Whitesides

I came across this, as i suspected, you created a niche. I didnt the same thing. I wrote a song for a game company, really not for them, but about it. I had a site up, contacted the company and told them the game was a source of fun for my friends and I as kids and i wrote it reminiscing about it.

The people working at the company all liked it, but the owners didnt want any part of it. They did nicely post it on their facebook page, and I got 1000 hits to the site for about 2 solid weeks. It was also sports related, and some writers for sports columns got it, and commented on their blogs about it.

I created a video but ran into issues with copyrighted material.

I got ticked off when folks were stopping by to listen and not buy, one guy in long island listened to the song 52 times without buying it, and it was a remote city so I know it was one person.

Long story short I sold 20 downloads, which I never did collect my 20 bucks from nimbit.

I didnt do the itunes thingd cuse at first, I wrote the song as homage to the game, never intending to sell anything.

I was surprised how many folks visited the site, but I didt make much money.

Had the game agreed to license it, or bundle it with the game, it could have been better.

Sometimes things work out and sometimes they dont.

I have about 3 albums worth of sports songs, sports is my life.

And I had the same idea of garnering an audience and then asking them to take my other stuff seriously.

I think that is what distracted me, you get labeled as a weird al, u are weird al.

I learned about niches from indie band survival guide.

So if you happen to get somebody willing to go along with your product, and you treat your music as a product, not really music, you can sell in the niche.

I do have doubts about selling enough to make a living though.

But Im starting to believe gregs story too. LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Last edited by December Rock Star; 11/17/12 05:49 PM.
#984472 - 11/17/12 07:10 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: December X]  
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Everyone has their failures. I wrote a jingle for an organic soda company. They loved it. The president and CEO loved it. They wanted to start a whole marketing campaign around it. I said great. Then they wanted me to come up with the commercials and have the director of my award winning video put it all together.

I said sure. I'll talk to him about it. At this point I brought in my lawyer to start talking licenses and numbers for costs. The CEO suddenly changed his mind. He had this notion that I would do all of this for free. That I would pay for his commercials out of my pocket.

End result is, I said no. I didn't get angry about it. I moved on.

That's a good article you found. It shows one of the niches some of my music has found. It's not the only niche. It's a good point to bring up. Every song has a niche. The writer should know what it is. That is part of knowing the business. It's not something to get angry about.

Other niches that I'm in include: film, tv, film trailers, video games. I also do the whole artist thing. I write some material under pseudonyms. I do that to keep certain material to certain markets. I don't get angry if something doesn't work. I learn from it, change for the next time around, then move on. I don't stop.

One thing I'm taking from DRS's post is that he has had issues with the business aspect of a venture. He took it personally. Got angry. Got bitter. Got upset at a non fan. This is not the right attitude to cultivate in order to become a success.

That is my $0.02 which is more than anyone gets from Pandora or Spotify.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#984473 - 11/17/12 07:26 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides
Everyone has their failures. I wrote a jingle for an organic soda company. They loved it. The president and CEO loved it. They wanted to start a whole marketing campaign around it. I said great. Then they wanted me to come up with the commercials and have the director of my award winning video put it all together.

I said sure. I'll talk to him about it. At this point I brought in my lawyer to start talking licenses and numbers for costs. The CEO suddenly changed his mind. He had this notion that I would do all of this for free. That I would pay for his commercials out of my pocket.

End result is, I said no. I didn't get angry about it. I moved on.

That's a good article you found. It shows one of the niches some of my music has found. It's not the only niche. It's a good point to bring up. Every song has a niche. The writer should know what it is. That is part of knowing the business. It's not something to get angry about.

Other niches that I'm in include: film, tv, film trailers, video games. I also do the whole artist thing. I write some material under pseudonyms. I do that to keep certain material to certain markets. I don't get angry if something doesn't work. I learn from it, change for the next time around, then move on. I don't stop.

One thing I'm taking from DRS's post is that he has had issues with the business aspect of a venture. He took it personally. Got angry. Got bitter. Got upset at a non fan. This is not the right attitude to cultivate in order to become a success.

That is my $0.02 which is more than anyone gets from Pandora or Spotify.


Even itunes wasnt the biggest thing yet at this time. Im not sure what woulda happened had it been on spotify, probably mostly listens, no buy.

At the time I was mad, and then afterwards i figured what the hell is the difference? Nobody asked me to write the song, how could somebody announce the song and say "heres a great song about this game" but then make people buy it to hear it...they wont. it aint THAT important.

I dont dislike niches, as I said I have three at least albums of sports related song that ive yet to record.

I learned alot about it.
On music sites people get flooded with music, you have a hard time being seen, but put your music in places where people dont get flooded with music and it stands out.

I had a sportswriter send me an email and tell me I nailed what the game means. That made me feel really good,

Didnt pay.

Not closing the door on it, I have plans, but youdo have to decide if thats the artist you want to be.

#984476 - 11/17/12 07:39 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: December X]  
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I have a neighbor who makes a decent living playing music. He plays the clubs as a solo act and is rarely out of work. Sure he plays cover songs but that's what the people want. He says that he plays "everything from Sinatra to Santana".

I smell some sour grapes on this thread, especially concerning Jody and Greg. Some of the things that they say may have hit a nerve with me in the past, but I got over it, and you can't deny the obvious. These guys are professionals. I watched Jody's video "Falling In". Very catchy and well done. I've seen his other videos. There's no argument that his talent exceeds just being a singer/musician/songwriter. It's a shame that in this day and age the star of the show has to practically be the whole team. I guess that Jody wants it that way but I'll let him chime in on that. There was a time when a musician only had to play the music and/or produce i.e. Buddy Holly.

You can find animosity all over the Internet on music threads. It shouldn't happen on JPF. That's what makes this site different from the others.

#984477 - 11/17/12 07:52 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: ben willis]  
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Originally Posted by ben willis
I have a neighbor who makes a decent living playing music. He plays the clubs as a solo act and is rarely out of work. Sure he plays cover songs but that's what the people want. He says that he plays "everything from Sinatra to Santana".

I smell some sour grapes on this thread, especially concerning Jody and Greg. Some of the things that they say may have hit a nerve with me in the past, but I got over it, and you can't deny the obvious. These guys are professionals. I watched Jody's video "Falling In". Very catchy and well done. I've seen his other videos. There's no argument that his talent exceeds just being a singer/musician/songwriter. It's a shame that in this day and age the star of the show has to practically be the whole team. I guess that Jody wants it that way but I'll let him chime in on that. There was a time when a musician only had to play the music and/or produce i.e. Buddy Holly.

You can find animosity all over the Internet on music threads. It shouldn't happen on JPF. That's what makes this site different from the others.


there was a time when all a writer had to do was write lyrics.

That's all changed.

Yes Jody is a professional, that is one distinction that is not being mentioned.

Just cause he does it doesnt mean you can. whatever the reasons might be talent, business savy, hard work, being able to produce everything from pencil to master in a studio you had to learn to use.

Whatever the variable, most people are not getting these results.

its not Joe Scmhoe makes album, and sells it successfully. You need all those variables.

and you need to be GOOD.

If they would admit that its not going to work for everyone, I dont think anyone would find that hard to swallow. They know that anyway.









Last edited by December Rock Star; 11/17/12 07:53 PM.
#984485 - 11/17/12 08:49 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: December X]  
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Admit? They are trying to encourage others to do the things needed to have a chance of making a career out of music. And, there are a LOT of ways to so that, if anyone would take the time to read my post on first page who might not already know the many ways. Either way, why the attitude to those who are simply giving their point of view, and are trying to make aware of working techniques and plans, to at least look at, and decide whether it is for us or not? Of course, their first advice from way back when was to study music and the artist we like to learn about. Being good is an obvious aspect that doesn't need to be explained, except for those that wouldn't know of that in the first place,,,,maybe.

Besides, if they already know you wanted to get across, then why the long posts trying to explain to them what you claim they already know? ???? That just doesn't make sense.

Seems like just creating a thorn for some reason.
Not had this sort of thing around here for YEARS!

I'm into sports too, more than you would guess about me, as some here do. But there's a thing called not being in the heat of combat when not playing a sport. That sport mentality is seen in soccer riots. People help people who they are friendly with, who get along, who have fun while being associated with. Being independent of that might not be the best way to try to teach others of your points.

On this site, there are the pro's pros and the beginner's beginners, and all in between. It's probably best to encourage points to be absorbed in a way that is helpful for all.

Thanks DRS,
Johnny


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
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#984486 - 11/17/12 09:04 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
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Originally Posted by Johnny Daubert
Admit? They are trying to encourage others to do the things needed to have a chance of making a career out of music. And, there are a LOT of ways to so that, if anyone would take the time to read my post on first page who might not already know the many ways. Either way, why the attitude to those who are simply giving their point of view, and are trying to make aware of working techniques and plans, to at least look at, and decide whether it is for us or not? Of course, their first advice from way back when was to study music and the artist we like to learn about. Being good is an obvious aspect that doesn't need to be explained, except for those that wouldn't know of that in the first place,,,,maybe.

Besides, if they already know you wanted to get across, then why the long posts trying to explain to them what you claim they already know? ???? That just doesn't make sense.

Seems like just creating a thorn for some reason.
Not had this sort of thing around here for YEARS!

I'm into sports too, more than you would guess about me, as some here do. But there's a thing called not being in the heat of combat when not playing a sport. That sport mentality is seen in soccer riots. People help people who they are friendly with, who get along, who have fun while being associated with. Being independent of that might not be the best way to try to teach others of your points.

On this site, there are the pro's pros and the beginner's beginners, and all in between. It's probably best to encourage points to be absorbed in a way that is helpful for all.

Thanks DRS,
Johnny


Yes, encouragement. But not where its going to cost people money to buy gear, buy marketing platforms, buy video making gear, and or recording an album for big money.

Anybody needs encouragement on how to write, crits on songs, insights about writing, tips on any aspect of the craft, im in.

But telling them this is how you get a career in music is wrong. Dont know why it irritates me.

Maybe cause I attended a computer school 10 years ago. I remember entering the place and meeting with people in suits and ties, and everybody that left the place were smiling ear to ear.

A promising career in computers awaits all.

They were the nicest people before we signed on. Once the school was over, they wouldnt even answer the phones.

This is every trade school there is. They get funded from the GOVERNMENT, givernment sends people to these schools when they are unemployed in hopes the training will help them find work.

Its BS, They dont not only find you work, they dont even teach you anything.

I keep in contact with at least 10 in my classes. None found a job in networking, some had data entry and customer service jobs.

Its not until you get on the monster board and send resumes all day and night, and not get any responses, that you know the school was a bunch of crap.

And the people that recruit for the schools know this, but they tell you how great the school and career will be.

They got their jobs from knowing people, and thats how most people get their jobs knowing somebody and a little hard work in between.

Any musician knows how hard it is. Even people on major labels cant make a dime.

Scuse me for being sensitive, im sure folks just want to help folks along. As long as it aint costing them money, you can help all you like.

Last edited by December Rock Star; 11/17/12 09:11 PM.
#984492 - 11/17/12 09:46 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: December X]  
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I never gave any advice that cost people money. On the contrary in other threads, people are advocating methods of things that not only remove money from my pockets, but also theirs. Yet I'm chastised for wanting to keep what by law is due to me and my work. That kind of advice is costing me, and everyone else that makes a living in music, money.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#984498 - 11/17/12 10:34 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
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Originally Posted by Jody Whitesides
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I never gave any advice that cost people money. On the contrary in other threads, people are advocating methods of things that not only remove money from my pockets, but also theirs. Yet I'm chastised for wanting to keep what by law is due to me and my work. That kind of advice is costing me, and everyone else that makes a living in music, money.


I dont know if you directly made anybody buy anything. But when you say this is what Ive done, and you can do it too, well.

Bruce Springsteen lived in a abondoned factory until he made it, I dont think even he would tell somebody or suggest somebody do that.

He was very lucky as well as talented.

it's music, it's not a mom and pop store.

But if you feel any of my thread is offensive to you or hurtful to you, I will gladly delete my end.



#984501 - 11/17/12 10:55 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: December X]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,541
Michele Howlett Offline
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Michele Howlett  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,541
Hunter Valley NSW Australia
Hi All,

It's sad that this thread has come to what's being said: Treat people how you want to be treated. IT'S CALLED RESPECT

My producer makes money, and deserves every cent that he does make! He makes a living from his talented work full time!

What I can tell you is, I've never made not even 1 cent from any of my songs, but what I can say is, I DON'T CARE! Today, I'm working harder on learning the craft of songwriting, to improve my skills as a writer, co-writing, and I absolutely love the whole process, from the beginning of a song, right to the finished product. If one day I do make some money from any of the songs I've written, co-written, and recorded, that will be a big bonus. I don't do it for the money:

Today I suffer with CRONIC POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER, due to many who have BULLIED me, over and over again. Songwriting helps me to believe in myself, helps heal the pain from what others dished out to me, and mostly helps me with my disorder, which is PRICELESS. NO AMOUNT OF MONEY CAN BUY YOU, YOUR MENTAL HEALTH. smile

LOADS OF FUN! AND I'VE MADE GREAT FRIENDS HERE! smile

STOP! iS IT IMPORTANT WHAT YOU'RE ARGUEING ABOUT! NO! crazy

Hugs Michele


Last edited by Michele Howlett; 11/17/12 11:00 PM.
#984546 - 11/18/12 12:59 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: December X]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
Johnny Daubert Offline
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Johnny Daubert  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
New Jersey, USA
Originally Posted by December Rock Star


Bruce Springsteen lived in a abondoned factory until he made it, I dont think even he would tell somebody or suggest somebody do that.

He was very lucky as well as talented.


DRS, I am now working with the man who helped make The Boss what he became. LUCKY is NOT one of the traits that applies to Bruce, and I guess many others. It;s called hard work, learning along the way, and getting what one needs in terms of instruments, amps, a van, a recorder for demos, etc. NO company, whether an individual or a big company gains much if not much is put into it, in many ways. (Money, Time, Learning, Trying, DOING everything possible). You are only assuming things, starting with the money issue, for anyone who has made anything of themselves HAS spent money on their craft in many ways, and sacrificed MUCH to be in a position to be taken seriously. Take Mike Caro, who has not had his teeth fixed, or got new sneaks more than once every FEW years because of his money going right back into his music in many ways.

The Boss being Lucky?! HA! You couldn't be further from the truth. He did not have any decent place to live because of his gig money funding more music related things to continue on a PROGRESSIVE path. And, it is NOT lucky to be told by Mike Appel to "come back when you have better songs" which took another year to have Bruce come back to Appel's management office to TRY again?! That is not LUCK! That is someone with a hard work ethic who spent everything he had on music, rather than vacations, dinners out, nice clothes, dates, movies, TV's, etc., to GET BETTER at everything he did! Better guitar, better PA speakers for the gigs in Jersey.

If you want to learn what you assume, try to talk with the man who helped make Bruce be a superstar, and who knows of Bruce's beginnings as well as himself. Take LUCK out of your reply, for that is just giving others a wrong conclusion as to what it takes to advance in any business. MONEY spent on other things than what your craft is, could take longer to realize good results. That is a simple 1 plus 1 equals 2 thing. Cause and Effect. NOT to say we all just need to invest in our craft, and presto,,,GREAT RESULTS! NO, of course not! Much learning, hard work and a productive, great progressive never say die attitude, and working WELL with others is also needed. Learning and adjusting, probably being the most important assets.

To claim spending money on your class experience says everything about spending money in one's craft is misleading as well. It is what one does with any knowledge gained that measures the worth of any knowledge/class that took money to do.

I spent money to sell knifes after a class. I didn't do the work needed to be successful, so I failed at it. I DO NOT blame the class, the money spent, or the quality of the knives for MY failure. I FAILED, for my efforts after the class were not what others did that did well. The others you talked to, of course might have done the same things as you, (I don't actually know). Then, you all blame the teachers for just taking your money. Well, if they taught you all anything in that field, you all had more knowledge after the classes then before! Right? Unless you didn't study hard and were not focused on becoming great in that field, which takes HARD WORK by YOU,,,NOT Them! What was done with that knowledge you and other were given? What never-say-die efforts went into your trade for you? If you chart the hours of the days after the classes and really look at all you did outside of the trade's knowledge, you might find good reason as to why not much happened after the classes. To put the blame on others is not teaching you or others anything but you are not in control of YOUR actions with any knowledge you paid for.

WE are to blame for knowledge not applied to it's fullest. NOT the amount of money spent on anything to do with our craft. NOT the ones who taught us the trade's details.

If one wants to be a great cook, it might help to get a great oven and pans, to start with. Oh,,,,but that costs money!,,,Yeah, no duh! Funny how that works! Money buys stuff! It's supposed to! That's why we have money in the first place! Not to just have it to sit and look at. Money is NO good until SPENT, or in action of some type of investment. Depending what one spends on, of course. smile Then, the rest is HARD, PRODUCTIVE WORK, and then more of everything,,,including investing in one's time and craft! Yeah,,,Spending Money HELPS! Not NEWS! How did your computer come on today? Through spending MONEY to have that happen!

One Jersey boy to another, smile
Johnny



Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





#984554 - 11/18/12 02:20 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 854
December X Offline
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December X  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by Johnny Daubert
Originally Posted by December Rock Star


Bruce Springsteen lived in a abondoned factory until he made it, I dont think even he would tell somebody or suggest somebody do that.

He was very lucky as well as talented.


DRS, I am now working with the man who helped make The Boss what he became. LUCKY is NOT one of the traits that applies to Bruce, and I guess many others. It;s called hard work, learning along the way, and getting what one needs in terms of instruments, amps, a van, a recorder for demos, etc. NO company, whether an individual or a big company gains much if not much is put into it, in many ways. (Money, Time, Learning, Trying, DOING everything possible). You are only assuming things, starting with the money issue, for anyone who has made anything of themselves HAS spent money on their craft in many ways, and sacrificed MUCH to be in a position to be taken seriously. Take Mike Caro, who has not had his teeth fixed, or got new sneaks more than once every FEW years because of his money going right back into his music in many ways.

The Boss being Lucky?! HA! You couldn't be further from the truth. He did not have any decent place to live because of his gig money funding more music related things to continue on a PROGRESSIVE path. And, it is NOT lucky to be told by Mike Appel to "come back when you have better songs" which took another year to have Bruce come back to Appel's management office to TRY again?! That is not LUCK! That is someone with a hard work ethic who spent everything he had on music, rather than vacations, dinners out, nice clothes, dates, movies, TV's, etc., to GET BETTER at everything he did! Better guitar, better PA speakers for the gigs in Jersey.

If you want to learn what you assume, try to talk with the man who helped make Bruce be a superstar, and who knows of Bruce's beginnings as well as himself. Take LUCK out of your reply, for that is just giving others a wrong conclusion as to what it takes to advance in any business. MONEY spent on other things than what your craft is, could take longer to realize good results. That is a simple 1 plus 1 equals 2 thing. Cause and Effect. NOT to say we all just need to invest in our craft, and presto,,,GREAT RESULTS! NO, of course not! Much learning, hard work and a productive, great progressive never say die attitude, and working WELL with others is also needed. Learning and adjusting, probably being the most important assets.

To claim spending money on your class experience says everything about spending money in one's craft is misleading as well. It is what one does with any knowledge gained that measures the worth of any knowledge/class that took money to do.

I spent money to sell knifes after a class. I didn't do the work needed to be successful, so I failed at it. I DO NOT blame the class, the money spent, or the quality of the knives for MY failure. I FAILED, for my efforts after the class were not what others did that did well. The others you talked to, of course might have done the same things as you, (I don't actually know). Then, you all blame the teachers for just taking your money. Well, if they taught you all anything in that field, you all had more knowledge after the classes then before! Right? Unless you didn't study hard and were not focused on becoming great in that field, which takes HARD WORK by YOU,,,NOT Them! What was done with that knowledge you and other were given? What never-say-die efforts went into your trade for you? If you chart the hours of the days after the classes and really look at all you did outside of the trade's knowledge, you might find good reason as to why not much happened after the classes. To put the blame on others is not teaching you or others anything but you are not in control of YOUR actions with any knowledge you paid for.

WE are to blame for knowledge not applied to it's fullest. NOT the amount of money spent on anything to do with our craft. NOT the ones who taught us the trade's details.

If one wants to be a great cook, it might help to get a great oven and pans, to start with. Oh,,,,but that costs money!,,,Yeah, no duh! Funny how that works! Money buys stuff! It's supposed to! That's why we have money in the first place! Not to just have it to sit and look at. Money is NO good until SPENT, or in action of some type of investment. Depending what one spends on, of course. smile Then, the rest is HARD, PRODUCTIVE WORK, and then more of everything,,,including investing in one's time and craft! Yeah,,,Spending Money HELPS! Not NEWS! How did your computer come on today? Through spending MONEY to have that happen!

One Jersey boy to another, smile
Johnny



I know you work with App Im truly jealous of that. BS music was/is a huge part of my life. To listen to Born to Rum is to be paralyzed and then able to walk, even if it only lasts as long as the song does.

But he was lucky 1, to have the talent.

Lucky, to meet app

Lucky to audition for hammond

Lucky he wasnt dropped from the label. after two great albums, but that did not sell.

Lucky, that people liked his music.

Lucky he had flat feet and didnt make it to the draft.

But what he did have was a undying need to succeed. Im not going to underestimate his motivation and determination.

But his kind of success is rare.

Cue in about 1:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdoFy2Qky0Y


#984557 - 11/18/12 02:57 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: December X]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,568
Kevin Emmrich Online content
Kevin Emmrich  Online Content


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,568
Crozet, VA
I'm locking this thread until Brian sees it and decides what to do about it. It has gone in a strange and disturbing direction.


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#984679 - 11/19/12 09:22 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,829
Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,829
Indianapolis, IN USA
DRS has been banned from the site. Being the person he is, he'll come back (as he's been here before and been banned before) but he'll have to start over as someone new.

If anyone notices someone with similar demeanor, let me know. If anyone is ever harassed by someone here, let me know. No one should EVER tolerate attacks, threats, phone calls (especially from people you didn't ask to call you).

For the record, Greg Watton is a REAL PERSON... Dec Rock Star is an anonymous troll. He has no benefit of ANY doubt no matter what the accusation. We do NOT take the side of anonymous people EVER over real people no matter the issue.

Only COWARDS, LIARS and/or TROLLS hide their identity and launch attacks at others without putting their real name and verifiable identity behind it.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#984689 - 11/19/12 10:41 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,106
ben willis Offline
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ben willis  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,106
Ft. Myers, FL. USA
We do use our real names here, and it should be that way. I remember myself asking DRS why he doesn't use his real name (since he is so opinionated) and he gave the usual brush off answer. As a community, we know who we are. Anonymous and pseudonymous (got that word from spell check) members here should seriously consider using your real name. It's easier to weed out the creepy people.

He had to search out to find Greg's phone number. That is weird and creepy. As for Greg, I don't know if law enforcement can do anything about someone just calling him. I doubt it. I don't believe that DRS is a real threat. Just a troll.

#984693 - 11/19/12 11:11 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: ben willis]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 293
Stephen John (singch Offline
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Stephen John (singch  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 293
Trinidad & Tobago
Seems like I'm joining in late (and missed all the drama too). Anyway, being successful in the music business is about finding where you fit in and then working hard to achieve.

I'm a singer songwriter from Trinidad. I'm a gospel artist which makes it harder for me here, as most folks don't take you seriously if you're not doing our indigenous music i.e. soca and calypso or one the of shoots. Furthermore I am a gospel artist, so I have to work twice as hard.

I recently graduated with my associate degree in Performing Arts, I am preparing to do my grade 5 theory. I attend conferences of every kind, I read, I network. I spend money to record properly (I don't have my gear and need to learn the recording ropes), I have registered my company and currently setting up a board of directors. I have a management team i.e. Manager, Accountant, Admin Assistant, Marketing Manager.

All of this because I know what it will take for the business to grow. This frees me up some to focus on just making music.

To make a living you have to put things in place and work for it, nobody is going to give it to you.

I know that I will start seeing results soon and I believe in me.

So I agree with Jody

Last edited by Stephen John (singch; 11/19/12 11:13 PM.
#984700 - 11/20/12 12:27 AM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Stephen John (singch]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,907
Colin Ward Offline
Colin Ward  Offline

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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,907
Saint Petersburg. FL
Too bad that Brian and some of the members have to deal with conflicts like this one. I suspect certain people have no life other than annoying others.

Well done Brian.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#984709 - 11/20/12 05:35 AM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: December X]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,363
Bob Cushing Offline
Bob Cushing  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,363
cincinnati oh usa
Originally Posted by December Rock Star
Originally Posted by Bob Cushing
DCR, to answer your question if you MUST know.. No I have no kids, no, I have no wife, {twice divorced, thanks for asking} If I need a root canal or a minor procedure done I make enough to cover it. I don't feel I need to explain myself further to you at this point. My track record speaks for itself, thank you, please drive through...


I didnt need to know, to know about you, but to make a point.

Everybodys track record speaks for itself.

And your not telling me anything I dont know already.

But I wouldnt count on a charity concert everytime one gets ill.



There are plenty of people with "conventional" jobs who arent covered as well..


bc
#984710 - 11/20/12 05:43 AM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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Posts: 4,363
Bob Cushing Offline
Bob Cushing  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,363
cincinnati oh usa
Oops, got here late, didn't realize that the trash had been taken out..


bc
#984724 - 11/20/12 08:23 AM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Bob Cushing]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,001
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

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Posts: 4,001
Park City, UT, USA
It's always attributed to luck when someone works hard. But it's not luck. It's realizing the talent. Putting it to use and hard work. That's reality.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#984730 - 11/20/12 09:53 AM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,109
John Lawrence Schick Offline
Top 20 Poster
John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,109
PA
I would say there is an element of luck involved, but it's the hard work, dedication, and talent that makes one ready for those lucky moments, i.e., being in the right place at the right time, or in the music library business, having a client find your music in a search through thousands of tracks.

But...

Luck ain’t gonna do one no good if one ain’t got the goods.

John smile

#984731 - 11/20/12 10:05 AM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Stephen John (singch]  
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,671
Everett Adams Online content
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Everett Adams  Online Content
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,671
,NL Canada
Originally Posted by Stephen John (singch
Seems like I'm joining in late (and missed all the drama too). Anyway, being successful in the music business is about finding where you fit in and then working hard to achieve.

I'm a singer songwriter from Trinidad. I'm a gospel artist which makes it harder for me here, as most folks don't take you seriously if you're not doing our indigenous music i.e. soca and calypso or one the of shoots. Furthermore I am a gospel artist, so I have to work twice as hard.

I recently graduated with my associate degree in Performing Arts, I am preparing to do my grade 5 theory. I attend conferences of every kind, I read, I network. I spend money to record properly (I don't have my gear and need to learn the recording ropes), I have registered my company and currently setting up a board of directors. I have a management team i.e. Manager, Accountant, Admin Assistant, Marketing Manager.

All of this because I know what it will take for the business to grow. This frees me up some to focus on just making music.

To make a living you have to put things in place and work for it, nobody is going to give it to you.

I know that I will start seeing results soon and I believe in me.

So I agree with Jody


Stephen John, you have chosen well to serve our Lord in doing His music. It is one of the hardest genres to make a living at. Christians do not support their music like they should. They love to sing it but seldom buy it. There are fewer radio stations where you can get it played, at least that is the case in Canada. I choose to write mostly Christian music which I love but there seems to be fewer chances to get it recorded.Our reward is not in earthly money but in heavenly riches in souls that we bring to the Lord.


The more you taste the bitterness of defeat, the sweeter final victory will be

May the flowers of love forever bloom in your garden of life

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashsounds

http://www.soundclick.com/newsflashgospel

www.cdbaby.com/all/eca333

www.showcaseyourmusic.com/newsflashsounds
#984734 - 11/20/12 10:16 AM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: Sep 2012
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bobbyearlray Offline
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bobbyearlray  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 572
Nashville, Tn.
I just wanted to say, i have followed what Jody is working on, and he has a great plan, he markets his products and abilities well. He is the future. There are those of us that grew up making our successes in music in a vastly different way. One thing for sure, to garner any amount of attention in our craft, we have to shelve many of our own wants and opinions, and embrace the technology and marketing strategies of today. I congratulate Jody that he worked hard, developed a formula, and is earning success. I have modified my marketing strategy, and am getting the first nibbles at placements. For the gentleman that attacked for no reason, to get banned from gentle people like writers, you need to seriously look at yourself in the mirror. We are all here to be around others , like minded , and to learn and share their successes and failures. Nobody should be shunned because they have done well because their plan is a good one. In this Holiday Season, let us embrace each other, and be thankful that God gave us the talents to create songs and music. We are all truly lucky.

#984756 - 11/20/12 12:34 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Bob Cushing]  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,179
Tom Shea Offline
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Tom Shea  Offline
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,179
Nebraska
Originally Posted by Bob Cushing
Oops, got here late, didn't realize that the trash had been taken out..


well stated Bob


Thomas Shea

Thomas Shea - Songwriting
http://www.soundclick.com/thomasshea

Justice - Songs
http://www.soundclick.com/justice-nebraska

#984759 - 11/20/12 01:04 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: December X]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
So the original question is: "how many people can make their living at music?" I'd say the answer changes on a daily basis. The limiting factors include taste, fashion, the economy, social and political changes, regulations and laws, and technological advances as well as those advances' acceptance among the consumers of music.

As the thread has morphed, the question now seems to be "how does one make their living at music?" I know several people who make their livings in the music business. All of them have some amount of talent, either musical talent or a talent for communication. That's not "luck" it's a gift. "Luck" is the perception that someone often beats of the odds at anything, flipping a coin to land at heads more than tails, for example. "Luck" cannot be developed, and is merely a perception based on observation of outcome. "Gifts," in this use of the word, are talents and abilities, they can be developed and do not guarantee outcome. A lucky fisherman is the one who never fished before, threw their line in the water and caught a state record bass. A successful fisherman is one who repeatedly catches trophy bass. A successful fisherman does not rely on luck.

I've met a few lucky musicians who make a living. One-hit wonders who never got the second hit, never really had the gift for it. If, and I say if, they are successful at all later on it is because they parlayed that one hit...they used the popularity of that one hit to draw an audience and sometimes even a fan base. That takes work and a lot of it. These people are few. After all, how many people catch that big fish the first time out? The rest of the folks who make a living have taken gifts and developed them. A naturally happy or sad demeanor, a cleverness with words, an astute analysis of everyday life, a "good ear," a compelling and identifiable voice, a head for business, speed and dexterity, social skills, a love of people, and of course, drive...these and more gifts get developed and used by successful artists.

Finally, I believe there is a danger in thinking "luck" is something bestowed on some folks and not on others. If that were true, the "lucky" poker player would consistently beat the skilled one. It doesn't happen. Skilled poker players make a living off of people who believe in luck. I believe "luck" is a human concept to describe statistical anomalies. In reality, statistical anomalies are a norm. That's why roulette wheels have the two green numbers, there are great casinos built on those numbers. I believe in God and work. God gave us free will. He gave us all gifts and a purpose. It's up to us to discover that purpose and work hard to develop those gifts.





You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#984760 - 11/20/12 01:12 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: bobbyearlray]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,710
Dan Sullivan Offline
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Dan Sullivan  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,710
MI
The words luck and lucky get tossed around pretty loosely. Lucky is a disparaging term when it's used to refer to others and marks the accuser as bitter, envious and resentful. When the other guy succeeds, it wasn't through talent or determination, he just got lucky.

When it's used to describe oneself it separates the proud from the humble, the braggart from the gentleman. A modest man will attribute much of his success to good luck, while the self-centered boaster will attribute most of his success to hard work and talent. Usually neither is telling the truth.

The truth is it usually takes hard work and talent to succeed. But that's often not enough. Sometimes you've got to get lucky.


Write from your heart, not what you think others want to hear.

https://dansullivan2.bandcamp.com

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/dansullivan2
#984776 - 11/20/12 06:52 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Dan Sullivan]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,001
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,001
Park City, UT, USA
Every pro musician I know has gotten where they are based on their ability, attitude and work ethic. Not based on "Luck".

Making money via music is not luck. It's not by chance.

Can we please put the concept of luck and music to rest?


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#984777 - 11/20/12 07:05 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Jody Whitesides]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,988
Gregory Watton Offline
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Gregory Watton  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,988
California
I agree that luck doesn't have anything to do with it. Luck is nothing more than good preparation and good timing.

#984786 - 11/20/12 08:38 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Gregory Watton]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,710
Dan Sullivan Offline
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Dan Sullivan  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,710
MI
Mike, You make sense arguing that luck plays a role but not an overly significant role in a successful music career. Talent, attitude and hard work are more important than luck, the same way they are in most other endeavors. Of course human beings are vain creatures and it's not uncommon for people to deny that luck played any role whatsoever in whatever success they may have achieved, preferring to attribute their own achievements entirely to hard work and talent. That's just the way the world goes round.


Write from your heart, not what you think others want to hear.

https://dansullivan2.bandcamp.com

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/dansullivan2
#984787 - 11/20/12 08:56 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Dan Sullivan]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,988
Gregory Watton Offline
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Gregory Watton  Offline
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California
In a world of leprechauns, four leaf clovers, wishes upon a star, and even the modern day wish upon 11:11, I'm sure luck has a major role to play in these magical events.

Sure, if we're out in the fields hunting fairies, wearing garlic to ward against vampires, and carrying rifles loaded with silver bullets to protect against werewolves, then luck might play a major role.

Realistically speaking, wearing a lucky rabbits foot or anything you attribute to superstitious lucky advantages, you're out of luck. The world doesn't work that way, no matter how much you argue to the contrary.

If you want to succeed, find out what characteristics successful people have, and apply them to yourself. Be the best in your industry. THAT is the only luck you need.

#984789 - 11/20/12 08:58 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Gregory Watton]  
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Gregory Watton Offline
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Gregory Watton  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
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California
Here, I'll even give you a head start:

www.addicted2success.com

#984791 - 11/20/12 09:13 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Gregory Watton]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
Brian Austin Whitney  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 18,829
Indianapolis, IN USA
But the key characteristic involved is usually hard working which scares most people way too much! So they look for things like "luck" which require no work.


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#984792 - 11/20/12 09:22 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,988
Gregory Watton Offline
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Gregory Watton  Offline
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California
Brian, absolutely! Fear is one of the greatest contributions to why people shy away from becoming successful. I was just talking to Jody about that. I was discussing with him that knowing what it takes to be successful and applying it is what will make you successful. Not quitting, even when you fail, is an attribute of the successful.

Many people are limited by their own fears and limitations. Many people allow others to tell them whether they're good enough or not. Not being good enough simply means find out what it is you're doing wrong and fix it. Improve and get better. For me, when people shoot me down and tell me to give up, I have this inner voice that tells me to work harder and better than ever before.

Many people also can't see past their own front porch. What I mean by that is many people don't have vision. They don't have imagination. They're not willing to think outside the box and find other ways to get the results they're looking for.

I think of the adage, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results."

FEAR can also stand for False Evidence Appearing Real. Let go of the fear and keep on keeping on.

#984796 - 11/20/12 09:43 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Gregory Watton]  
Joined: Apr 2006
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ben willis Offline
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ben willis  Offline
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Ft. Myers, FL. USA
If you enjoy what you're doing, than "hard work" in definition is not relevant. You're already doing the hard work. Extra curricular jobs that you don't anticipate along the path may interfere. For example you may be a musician and only want to record. You might also have to produce.

#984801 - 11/20/12 10:22 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: ben willis]  
Joined: Dec 2008
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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PA
I don't know, but when I think of all the twists and turns a lifetime’s journey can render, and all the tribulations that plague man, I feel lucky I’m still alive grin , and still making music through it all.

BTW, success comes in many forms. I imagine the gist of this thread pertains to fame and fortune. Though I feel successful because my days are filled with meaningful work, thus, the hard work is part of the prize, not only the means of getting to the booty.

May good luck be with you all.

Best, John smile

#984808 - 11/20/12 10:39 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,907
Colin Ward Offline
Colin Ward  Offline

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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,907
Saint Petersburg. FL
I would agree that there is no substitute for hard work, training education, communication, networking, etc., but the luck comes at birth when you are created with a degree of musical talent that varies from 0 to 100%. If you are tone deaf and have no sense of rhythm, no amount of hard work is going to make you a great singer or musician. On the other hand, a guy like Paul McCartney is close to 100% in talent and his hard work is rewarded in spades.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#984815 - 11/21/12 12:52 AM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Colin Ward]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
Johnny Daubert Offline
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Johnny Daubert  Offline
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Posts: 8,102
New Jersey, USA
I wish it was about Luck! For, I wouldn't have had to go though ALL the ups and downs, the learning by mistakes and times when it was not a mistake, just having the goods yet. I wish it were luck for not having to go through ear pain to not play for a year,,,only to come out of that year better than ever in every way, (for some reason)???How;d that happen? I KNOW HOW! I was THINKING and BEING in music, DESPITE the time away form the instruments! Luck did not have me think or BE music still! I wanted my thoughts to be in music, DESPITE!

Luck did not have me go the Philles Ballpark with CD in hand to TRY to give it to someone there with hopes of it being played before the Home Opener. Luck did not have Greg Luzinski there to give it to,,,for he had been there since day ONE a few years before, and I KNEW it! NO one can call anything I ever did as being lucky. Luck did not have me work with 2LT or Sub, or Mike Appel as in now. He's not even lucky,,for he went through many before me through the decades. We all choose things and people. NO luck in that!

If I play a lottery and win,,,yeah,,,,that is LUCK. (FOR THAT IS OUT OF MY CONTROL other than walking into a store and handing them a dollar and say, "Quick Pick Please"!). But, anything any one of us have done that led to whatever success we had? THAT, as you all know, is everything but LUCK! Our work and trying this and that were things we had control of.

Here is what I think of those that claim we are just lucky:

They use luck as a way to explain why they didn't work or learn enough to gain any employment of even part time status. ANYONE who doesn't do the needed work and learning process will NOT even be able to say they were lucky,,,ever! They will say they were UNLUCKY. I wonder WHY!???? LOL.... Yet, they will point to us who are doing something in music and point to us as being lucky. NO<,,,we are just not excuse makers for our own lack,,,for we don't have lack for learning and great determined effort. I never gave up when pitching. I got beat, sure. But THEY had to do that to me, unless I was wild. But I wasn't unlucky if wild, and I wasn't lucky if we won any game. We all did things to put the ball in play or not! To make the plays or not. To show up for the next year or not! I was NOT lucky to get selected by The Phillies at a tryout. I worked my ass off since i was 8. While doing the same in music since 7. Before that if you count paper drums and a tiny plastic accordion! Luck my ass!

Excuse makers, if they think we are lucky and they are not.

That is Just Plain BS!


Got it!?! smile


Progression is based on cause and affect.

So is digression, (or not being lucky! smile

Thankful for my dedicated work and all the others who recognized that to help me gain steps.

Still climbing, and NO THANKS TO LUCK! But to all others and me.


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





#984827 - 11/21/12 04:00 AM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: December X]  
Joined: May 2002
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Gregory Watton Offline
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Gregory Watton  Offline
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California
Damn straight, Johnny. I couldn't have said it better than that!

#984848 - 11/21/12 10:26 AM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Gregory Watton]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
Johnny Daubert Offline
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Johnny Daubert  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
New Jersey, USA
Thank you Greg. But, you "would" have said it better in meter form! smile


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





#984858 - 11/21/12 12:28 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Dan Sullivan]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Originally Posted by Dan Sullivan
Mike, You make sense arguing that luck plays a role but not an overly significant role in a successful music career. Talent, attitude and hard work are more important than luck, the same way they are in most other endeavors. Of course human beings are vain creatures and it's not uncommon for people to deny that luck played any role whatsoever in whatever success they may have achieved, preferring to attribute their own achievements entirely to hard work and talent. That's just the way the world goes round.


Dan, there is no such thing as "luck." When we say someone is "lucky" we mean they beat the odds on something. That can happen by accident, but it is not statistically dependable. I've had good things happen in my career because, by chance, I was in the right place at the right time. But that was not because of "luck" in the superstitious sense. Winners don't depend on luck, they work hard to be ready to take advantage of chance. There is a word for people who think "luck" plays a role in ongoing success...losers.

Read my long-time quote below by Earl Wilson


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#984859 - 11/21/12 12:35 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,179
Tom Shea Offline
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Tom Shea  Offline
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,179
Nebraska
Luck is overrated



Thomas Shea

Thomas Shea - Songwriting
http://www.soundclick.com/thomasshea

Justice - Songs
http://www.soundclick.com/justice-nebraska

#984860 - 11/21/12 01:02 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Tom Shea]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,109
John Lawrence Schick Offline
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John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,109
PA

Let’s express this a different way. The word “luck” used loosely, seems to stick to people’s craw (an erroneous zone ?). grin

There are measures to take that will up one’s odds in achieving success.

Save quality, the chances of my success in music libraries escalate the more I expand my catalog. Also escalates when a diversity of tracks are dispersed over a larger playing field.

John smile

#984863 - 11/21/12 01:32 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Tom Shea]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,710
Dan Sullivan Offline
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Dan Sullivan  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,710
MI
Mike, I obviously completely misunderstood you and put my words in your mouth. I apologize to you for that.

I don't think a little good luck or happenstance diminishes in any way the talent and hard work that goes into success. I don't think it steals the spotlight from anyone's achievements. I just believe in acknowledging that it exists. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. Some believe in God and some don't. People have differing beliefs. The world would be a boring place if we all agreed on everything.


Write from your heart, not what you think others want to hear.

https://dansullivan2.bandcamp.com

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/dansullivan2
#984864 - 11/21/12 01:55 PM Re: Earning a Living with Music [Re: Dan Sullivan]  
Joined: Dec 2008
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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PA
Originally Posted by Dan Sullivan
Mike, I obviously completely misunderstood you and put my words in your mouth. I apologize to you for that.

I don't think a little good luck or happenstance diminishes in any way the talent and hard work that goes into success. I don't think it steals the spotlight from anyone's achievements. I just believe in acknowledging that it exists. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. Some believe in God and some don't. People have differing beliefs. The world would be a boring place if we all agreed on everything.


Yes Dan, I think that's where the rub is emerging from. And you're correct, using the word "luck" (again, loosely) doesn't diminish one's hard work, it's just an element of circumstances. One who works harder than the other doesn't necessitate one's greater success, thus, the element of "luck" seems to be a factor, i.e., being at the right place at the right time.

I think I qualify for working hard at my craft. I'm not a bit offended in someone thinking luck had a role in any success. My talent is what it is (for better or worse) regardless.

Now if someone told me I was shitt-lucky to be successful, because my music sucks, then my ego may be bruised a little. laugh

Best, John smile

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