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#973897 - 08/24/12 06:40 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Caroline]  
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Originally Posted by Caroline
Ok, I don't personally know like but I do know a few professional musicians/artists. I would never ask one of them to help me get somewhere. For one thing, I like my friends and I doubt they like being used any more than I do. For another, one of my friends is a singer, good voice, she listens to anything I send her but I don't expect her to cut it, I just expect her to be honest. I listen to her songs and am honest. It's how if should work. She's been interested in a couple of my songs but they weren't right for her current project. I don't have a problem with that because she is my friend and I'd rather have an honest opinion than a cut. Besides all of that, it can cause I'll feelings if her vision were to differ from mine. She's written songs with pro writers, does regularly. I would never ask her to take mine to one of her writing sessions either.

As for those on here being useful in furthering our (the peons) careers, who says any of them have to. It's not their jobs to mdke sure we are successful. Ugh!!! Such drama lately! Ive got Midol if anyone admits they need it.


See this is a slanted response too.

I agree with you, nobody has to do anything for anybody, or most likely cant.

If somebody disagres with an article posted, why is it combated?

Regardless of who is wrong and right, its not going to change our songwriting fortunes.

I dont see how the article helps anyone. theres a guy on another site who posts stuff all day and night, if you agree with it then he goes along and takes credit for posting it, if you disagree then he pulls back and claims he justs posts the articles randomly.

There is a certain level of BS and assertion that goes along with posting articles off the net as if you wrote it.

I agree Midol time.



#973899 - 08/24/12 06:51 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: December X]  
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Caroline Offline
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What makes it slanted???


Well, personally I don't care if you agree or disagree with the article. I just don't see how shooting the messenger is productive for anyone.

I can post am article, I may or may not agreed with it, bug I'm entitled to my opinion of what I find useful or at least what i believe to be good advice. If one doesn't agree, fine. It honestly felt like it had been taken personally and that didn't seem to be the intention.

Advice is just that, advice take it or don't. It's not necessary to have so much frustration. Some people might find that article very useful. Some won't. I've seen books promoted as must reads, here, I've read some and found them useless. Some recommended by pro's I've met, I couldn't get past the first chapter for boredom. Im not calling those guys saying D, that book sucked, why did you say I should read it! Don't recommend anything else. Honestly, I believe the article was posted to help those it would help and be ignored by those who didn't find it helpful.


Pardon my typos please, I'm using my phone...

Last edited by Caroline; 08/24/12 06:55 PM.

Caroline


http://www.myspace.com/carolineholder
http://www.soundclick.com/carolinewroteit

Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them! (Dove Dark Chocolate)
#973900 - 08/24/12 06:53 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Caroline]  
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Caroline, I think DRS was being tongue-in-cheek when he asked me to get him a cut. That's not how things work.

The biggest cut I got was with Razzy Bailey. Razzy's had 9 number one hits and won Billboard Magazine's Country Entertainer of the Year award. He's tied with Elvis for number of 45rpms that had both sides go number one. How did I get that cut with Razzy? I cowrote the song with him. I've been Razzy's bass player for decades. We're very good friends.

Next to that was Susie Luchsinger's Christmas album, where my cowriter Erik Thorson and I got a cut. Susie is Reba McEntire's sister. Our publisher pitched it. It was a pretty good song. As a matter of fact, a very major star's manager considered it. That would have been a platinum record and a lot of money. I could have bought that shiny boat. The song is pretty good. LOL.

Besides those I've had maybe two dozen other cuts, all indies, some I never saw a nickel from. I've also gotten to cowrite with some major writers but the songs never got cut.

Those and all my other cuts came about through networking. First, I would have gotten zero cuts if I hadn't spent time learning how to write a song. I'm no expert, but I've learned a bit about it. I used to write at Charley Pride's publishing company with a great team of writers who had a bunch of cuts. I worked as a listener at Ed Bruce's publishing company. I've had platinum writers take my ideas over theirs in songwriting sessions. The only time anyone has ever questioned my credentials has been here at JPF LOL. None of the rest of them ever asked if I'd done this or that, they just listened to my ideas and either said yes or no. If they said no, I didn't cry or argue or get mad or insult them, I just went on to another idea. That's how pros work.

Anyway, I don't write much anymore except with Razzy and for songs I write by myself, they are all Christian Country and Folk songs.



You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#973901 - 08/24/12 06:54 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: December X]  
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Yep. A few years a go I submitted one of my songs to a professional songwriter who's had # 1 hits recently, to get critiqued. He took my money and told me it could be recorded right now by a major label artist.I thought that was cool. Two months later I emailed the critiquer back and his response was "I don't remember the song you're talking about". That was a big blow to the ego. I figure he was just after my money.

I used another service for the same song and got back what a great song it was. That person was in a position to get it heard if they liked it enough, but didn't.

Since then I've thought, if people actually believe in a song, and are in a position to help, they won't because they don't have anything invested in it themselves. Which was backed up by much of what I've read in the past few years.


Last edited by AaronAuthier; 08/24/12 06:54 PM.
#973902 - 08/24/12 06:57 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Caroline]  
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Originally Posted by Caroline
Well, personally I don't care if you agree or disagree with the article. I just don't see how shooting the messenger is productive for anyone.

I can post am article, I may or may not agreed with it, bug I'm entitled to my opinion of what I find useful or at least what i believe to be good advice. If one doesn't agree, fine. It honestly felt like it had been taken personally and that didn't seem to be the intention.

Advice is just that, advice take it or don't. It's not necessary to have so much frustration. Some people might find that article very useful. Some won't. I've seen books promoted as must reads, here, I've read some and found them useless. Some recommended by pro's I've met, I couldn't get past the first chapter for boredom. Im not calling those guys saying D, that book sucked, why did you say I should read it! Don't recommend anything else. Honestly, I believe the article was posted to help those it would help and be ignored by those who didn't find it helpful.


Pardon my typos please, I'm using my phone...


I dont really care what you thought of the article either.

But if u followed the thread(I know its been so long you cant keep up with it, but still reply) you would see people coming out in support of mike as if it was a trial of some sort.

Was it posted to say "this is how it is, and anybody who disagrees with the content of it, shall be the enemy" ?

Nobody attacked anybody we commented on the article, but were tol to shut up and listen.

Yeah ok bro ill shut and listen when u get a major cut.

#973906 - 08/24/12 07:01 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: December X]  
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DRS: Why does every thread you get involved with become negative? I know, I know -- you're the victim and it is everyone else's fault. Get over it and try and become part of a community -- you might even like it.


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#973907 - 08/24/12 07:03 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Caroline]  
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I guess everything evolves. This has turned into "Will you listen to my music?" I honestly don't think that MD, MAB, or Brian could make a hit out of someone's song. Sure, they know people in the music business, but the days of someone being "discovered" are more or less over. Pop (Country) music is a machine just like the Brill building early 60's pop music. The songs are written by committees, and dispatched to established artists. MAB has written here that songs are written in a round table discussion. That's my take.

That doesn't mean that someone with enough talent can't break the barrier. John Prine has done it for 40 years as has Tom Waits.

#973908 - 08/24/12 07:04 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Originally Posted by Kevin Emmrich
DRS: Why does every thread you get involved with become negative? I know, I know -- you're the victim and it is everyone else's fault. Get over it and try and become part of a community -- you might even like it.


Good question. I guess because I dont agree with the folks other people think are correct all the time.

That makes me the enemy.

But You should have a talk with Bill, he cant tell anybody to shut up and listen.

Last edited by December Rock Star; 08/24/12 07:04 PM.
#973911 - 08/24/12 07:09 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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What is with both you guys? Sheesh.
Do you turn every conversation you have into a dog fight?
I did not tell anyone to shut up and listen.

Shut your Mouth and Listen is what I was told in the first few weeks I arrived in Nashville and it still holds true today. I would include it on any list of what not to do.

The article is about what not to do in Nashville and I can guarantee you a big mouth that thinks he/she knows everything about the music business will get them absolutely no where in Nashville except the back of the line.

When being critiqued or in a pitch session opening your mouth is about the quickest way for your song to end up in the round file.
If you don't believe it take a trip to Nashville and try it.


Bill
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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson didn't say it

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#973912 - 08/24/12 07:14 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Bill Robinson]  
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Originally Posted by Bill Robinson
What is with both you guys? Sheesh.
Do you turn every conversation you have into a dog fight?
I did not tell anyone to shut up and listen.

Shut your Mouth and Listen is what I was told in the first few weeks I arrived in Nashville and it still holds true today. I would include it on any list of what not to do.

The article is about what not to do in Nashville and I can guarantee you a big mouth that thinks he/she knows everything about the music business will get them absolutely no where in Nashville except the back of the line.

When being critiqued or in a pitch session opening your mouth is about the quickest way for your song to end up in the round file.
If you don't believe it take a trip to Nashville and try it.


No the fact is, I didnt agree with the article, said so, and had to fight off the masses.

Is it at all possible that the article is pointless and useless?

Not saying its not nice to post to try and be helpful, but do I have to agree with it?

you wrote...

"The only other advice I think missing is keep your mouth shut and LISTEN."

soo, WHO do I listen to? You? thats the jist of the argument.

Anyway, done with this yawnnn.

#973913 - 08/24/12 07:14 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: December X]  
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Originally Posted by December Rock Star

But You should have a talk with Bill, he cant tell anybody to shut up and listen.


Still stuck on Bill?

#973914 - 08/24/12 07:22 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Bill Robinson]  
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Originally Posted by Bill Robinson

When being critiqued or in a pitch session opening your mouth is about the quickest way for your song to end up in the round file.
If you don't believe it take a trip to Nashville and try it.


Is this comparable to a critique or pitch session? No. It's open discussion about an article that Mike posted. An article that I agreed with.

#973917 - 08/24/12 07:42 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: ben willis]  
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Justin Bieber was discovered on youtube by Usher. Carly Rae Jepsen was discovered by Bieber & Selena Gomez when they heard her song in Canada. They both tweeted her song and she become known to the whole world in minutes.

Cody Simpson was discovered on youtube too. As well as a few other stars.

People are discovered on singing shows too.

Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood, Daughtry, Jacob Hogard aka Hedley, Miranda Lambert, Adam Lambert, Susan Boyle, Leona Lewis. etc.

Last edited by AaronAuthier; 08/24/12 08:03 PM.
#973918 - 08/24/12 07:47 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: AaronAuthier]  
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Originally Posted by AaronAuthier
Yep. A few years a go I submitted one of my songs to a professional songwriter who's had # 1 hits recently, to get critiqued. He took my money and told me it could be recorded right now by a major label artist.I thought that was cool. Two months later I emailed the critiquer back and his response was "I don't remember the song you're talking about". That was a big blow to the ego. I figure he was just after my money.

I used another service for the same song and got back what a great song it was. That person was in a position to get it heard if they liked it enough, but didn't.

Since then I've thought, if people actually believe in a song, and are in a position to help, they won't because they don't have anything invested in it themselves. Which was backed up by much of what I've read in the past few years.



Before the net song critiquers made a living or part time living doing crits.

I remember going back at least 20 years the songwriters market which is still a great book, but they had their own songwriting service.

I submitted a song, cause remember, no net, NOBODY hears your songs and you need to know if anybody thinks its any good.

Comes back about 6 weeks later. It was so riddled with BS and false hype I didnt even believe it. Im like is this dude for real?

He had me writing for theatre and Movie Scores, and at the time I was pretty bad. A decent musician and singer but writing was real raw and structureless.

He's like wow i cant believe what Im witnessing true talent developing, and (im going to include a coupon for a discount on a rewrite critique, which you can resend with some changes)

I mean I always had people say good things but this guy was over the top.

I thought about it for a while, and said why is he wasting time with me. where are his hits?

Ripped up the coupon and never re sent, lol

Its like people who write books cant even do anything with their songs, what chance do I have.


Last edited by December Rock Star; 08/24/12 07:50 PM.
#973919 - 08/24/12 07:50 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: AaronAuthier]  
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Another good way to ruin your reputation is to hire someone named
Nate Guthrie to promote you and have them saturate forums with your name ie: 'The Shady Rest Band Fall Tour Dates'

At least I think so

God Bless Roy and Helen


'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label
#973920 - 08/24/12 07:55 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: December X]  
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AaronAuthier Offline
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There are too many stories like that floating around internet music forums.
Songwriting competitions are the worst for that.


#973921 - 08/24/12 07:57 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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I think they call that "germing" in Nashville.
That probably wouldn't encourage anyone to go check out their music.
You are right Roy.

Last edited by AaronAuthier; 08/24/12 07:57 PM.
#973923 - 08/24/12 08:01 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: AaronAuthier]  
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Why do these two guy's always end up taking over legitimate discussions with their nonsense? Earth to Brian. Or any Mod.

#973924 - 08/24/12 08:01 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: AaronAuthier]  
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Originally Posted by AaronAuthier
There are too many stories like that floating around internet music forums.
Songwriting competitions are the worst for that.



Its big money, not the songwriting itself, but cashing in on others who want to be writers.

If they could balance the want to teach and make a buck like a guitar teacher it be fine, but i recall some being so money hungry it was pathetic.

they are selling a service that almost never pays off for the customer.

it;s not like learning how to fix a car, you learn that you can do something with it.

#973925 - 08/24/12 08:06 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: ben willis]  
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I'm beginning to believe that our old Troll friend from Canada is back.

#973926 - 08/24/12 08:24 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: ben willis]  
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December X Offline
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Originally Posted by ben willis
Why do these two guy's always end up taking over legitimate discussions with their nonsense? Earth to Brian. Or any Mod.


It was a thread about ones reputation, it wasnt a discussion at all. When one didnt agree with it, then it was a problem.

Thats how it works theres only one right answer only one way to think.

Joan Jett didnt give a damn about her reputation, and she did pretty well LoL. See ya folks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9VSGPmkUc0

#973927 - 08/24/12 08:36 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: December X]  
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Caroline Offline
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I apPologize if I took anything out of the context it was meant. I simply thought I was reading Mike being bad mouthed for posting an article. I read through replies, I didn't think the article was bad and I didn't think it had all the answers. I just felt it wasn't necessary for a (what I had interpreted to be) a debate over whether Mike was right or wrong for posting it. I'm not here to argue with anyone, im just seeing a whole lot of nonsense (my perception) about something harmless.


Caroline


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#973929 - 08/24/12 08:45 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Caroline]  
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Originally Posted by Caroline
I apPologize if I took anything out of the context it was meant. I simply thought I was reading Mike being bad mouthed for posting an article. I read through replies, I didn't think the article was bad and I didn't think it had all the answers. I just felt it wasn't necessary for a (what I had interpreted to be) a debate over whether Mike was right or wrong for posting it. I'm not here to argue with anyone, im just seeing a whole lot of nonsense (my perception) about something harmless.


It was complete nonsense. People telling us to shut up and listen for not agreeing with article.

U conveniently twist it to make the rest right.

Your right, theres nothing wrong with Mike posting it.

But did anybody say that it was? This is the argument you want to focus on?

Nobody said he shouldnt post it, the problem arose when we stated whether or not we agreed. When I didnt thats what started it.

I have disagreed with professionals in the business. I saw an article with a really famous singer songwriter producer whos name escapes me now, but he suggested artists stay off of facebook and mysepace, because it makes you just another in a pool of millions.

My reaction was, what choice does am indie musician have? social media, and thats about it.

So nobody was shooting the messenger, and nowhere does it say that, you should go back and re read.

Anyway, i must pull away from this, I have toe nails to clip.

Last edited by December Rock Star; 08/24/12 08:46 PM.
#973933 - 08/24/12 09:57 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: ben willis]  
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Bill Robinson Offline
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Originally Posted by ben willis
Why do these two guy's always end up taking over legitimate discussions with their nonsense? Earth to Brian. Or any Mod.

Darned if I know. I'm still trying to figure out how my adding something to Vinny's list of how to destroy yourself in Nashville had anything to do with these two.

BTW if I had been responding to Aaron or anyone else I would have included their post in a quote. I simply typed in the quick reply box as I always do. It automatically puts the previous poster in the heading.


Last edited by Bill Robinson; 08/24/12 10:08 PM.

Bill
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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson didn't say it

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#973945 - 08/24/12 10:38 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Bill Robinson]  
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Humm,
For sure the *hit is getting deep here. A couple of things that aren't exactly new. Opiniions are like *ssholes, everybody has one. Something a friend related to me one time, also not exactly new.

Everybody likes a little ass, nobody likes a wiseass. Some of you should relax. We already heard it, many times.


Ray E. Strode
#973972 - 08/25/12 02:00 AM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Ray E. Strode]  
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aaaaaaaand this thread is a prime example of why I've lost so much interest in coming here and reading along threads in the past year.


What I love about Mike D is personal; he takes time with me, he LIKES my songs and his compliments are sincere, and he actually appreciates my singing and has ALWAYS been supportive of my (sometimes lame) efforts. I'm a Dunbar fan and always will be.

On my bucket List Mike now is, "sing Fever live with Mike on bass."

I now return you to your regularly scheduled bickering.
@_@

Linda

#973976 - 08/25/12 05:14 AM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: December X]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Offline
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Originally Posted by December Rock Star
Originally Posted by Bill Robinson
I think if I would listen to anyone on this subject it would be Mike Dunbar. Marc Alan-Barnette comes a very close second.

The only other advice I think missing is keep your mouth shut and LISTEN.


I dont think id listen to Mike. He posts an article and were all supposed to say... OH MY GOODNESS.. WHAT A GREAT ARTICLE? Reminds me of another site where one guy is considered a music business guru, but the only place hes known for that is on the site.

Please stop the nonsense. Everyone of us is in the same boat as anyone else. Nice and thoughtful to post the article, but pretty much a no kidding one.

At least its songwriting related, but its not going to change anything for anyone.



Dec, you've jumped the shark. Your ignorance of what Mike Dunbar does on a daily basis is no one's fault but yours. A working musician making a full time living from music for many decades continuing and growing even today is an amazing success in the music business. In fact, it's the best kind because he's having a blast and paying his bills making music on his own terms year after year. Just because you've done nothing of value in your music life to date, don't assume others are like you. They aren't. Setting a goal to be like Mike Dunbar and his career path is beyond a dream for 99.9% of musicians out there. So please don't try and heap your misery on everyone because you're too lazy to learn the truth about Mike and the reality of what being a true success in music even means.


Brian Austin Whitney
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#973977 - 08/25/12 05:26 AM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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I made a real effort here not to go off on two assholes here who targeted me for no reason Brian and here you are throwing me under your bus? I don't think so.
You never lifted one goddamn finger when these morons were pushing me to my limit. I went to you numerous times. Kevin numerous times. Neither of you did a thing. Not a thing to stop things from escalating. I wanted to settle disputes diplomatically instead of in flames. You two failed. Not me.

I'm off this bus.

Last edited by AaronAuthier; 08/25/12 05:28 AM.
#973978 - 08/25/12 05:43 AM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: AaronAuthier]  
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You never went to me a single time Aaron. I have zero PM's from you about anyone bothering you. If you're bothered by someone, you can choose to ignore them and you'll never see their posts again. They become invisible. But you're mistaken if you think you've asked me for assistance, you haven't.

You're not a victim.. you're a perpetrator who is getting it right back from people who are equally fed up I imagine. Other than your daily fights with DRS, I am unaware of other problems. I'm telling you both to knock if off.

And, if you remember, the one time you DID come to me for help via PM, it was about another topic and I took the time to help. Check for yourself. You seem to be confused.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
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"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#973979 - 08/25/12 06:24 AM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Originally Posted by Mike Dunbar
The only time anyone has ever questioned my credentials has been here at JPF LOL. None of the rest of them ever asked if I'd done this or that, they just listened to my ideas and either said yes or no. If they said no, I didn't cry or argue or get mad or insult them, I just went on to another idea. That's how pros work.

I fully agree with this statement. It's the same I've found for a vast majority of my work too. Though the bigger the deals get, the more vetting goes on. But that's to be expected in business. The other thing that is expected: you have to deliver the goods or get left behind.

Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
Dec, you've jumped the shark. Your ignorance of what Mike Dunbar does on a daily basis is no one's fault but yours. A working musician making a full time living from music for many decades continuing and growing even today is an amazing success in the music business. In fact, it's the best kind because he's having a blast and paying his bills making music on his own terms year after year. Just because you've done nothing of value in your music life to date, don't assume others are like you. They aren't. Setting a goal to be like Mike Dunbar and his career path is beyond a dream for 99.9% of musicians out there. So please don't try and heap your misery on everyone because you're too lazy to learn the truth about Mike and the reality of what being a true success in music even means.

I can't say that I aspire to be MD, however, I admire his career. We've even spoken briefly on the phone. My take is the same, he's a super cat who knows people and has his head screwed on straight. That's rare in this business.

I'm sure we all break a rule here and there that the article mentions. It's the people that consistently break them, or are constantly negative, that have a harder time getting anywhere.



Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#973992 - 08/25/12 09:39 AM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
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So does this mean I should not be sleazy, greedy and go around trying to use people?


Thomas Shea

Thomas Shea - Songwriting
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Justice - Songs
http://www.soundclick.com/justice-nebraska

#974002 - 08/25/12 10:58 AM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Tom Shea]  
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Mike is old-school (and probably even older than me grin ), i.e., resides in a major music center and establishes direct relationships with people in the Industry. His credentials are nothing less than amazing.

I reckon itís difficult for the younger generations bred on cyber food to relate to such a feat. Could be the basis of some bitter attitudes displayed on this thread. Donít know, but advice coming from one thatís living the dream has to be considered seriously.

BTW, Mike's foot doesn't disturb me much anymore. grin

John smile

#974008 - 08/25/12 12:24 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
Originally Posted by December Rock Star
Originally Posted by Bill Robinson
I think if I would listen to anyone on this subject it would be Mike Dunbar. Marc Alan-Barnette comes a very close second.

The only other advice I think missing is keep your mouth shut and LISTEN.


I dont think id listen to Mike. He posts an article and were all supposed to say... OH MY GOODNESS.. WHAT A GREAT ARTICLE? Reminds me of another site where one guy is considered a music business guru, but the only place hes known for that is on the site.

Please stop the nonsense. Everyone of us is in the same boat as anyone else. Nice and thoughtful to post the article, but pretty much a no kidding one.

At least its songwriting related, but its not going to change anything for anyone.



Dec, you've jumped the shark. Your ignorance of what Mike Dunbar does on a daily basis is no one's fault but yours. A working musician making a full time living from music for many decades continuing and growing even today is an amazing success in the music business. In fact, it's the best kind because he's having a blast and paying his bills making music on his own terms year after year. Just because you've done nothing of value in your music life to date, don't assume others are like you. They aren't. Setting a goal to be like Mike Dunbar and his career path is beyond a dream for 99.9% of musicians out there. So please don't try and heap your misery on everyone because you're too lazy to learn the truth about Mike and the reality of what being a true success in music even means.


I dont think he's like me, doing anything in the music business is tough going, and I can appreciate if he has.

Really wasn't the issue what he has accomplished in the music business.

I didnt agree with the article he posted, is he right about every piece of journalism on the net because of his musical experience?

I know a guy placing songs on TV, should I call him and ask for his definitvie opinion on the tv music industry when a question arises ? I dont think anyone will care.

Im sorry to Mike as he got dragged in on the wrong side of an argument.

It wasnt about if he's anybody in the music business, it was about the article. These folks make everything personal.

Peace.

Last edited by December Rock Star; 08/25/12 12:25 PM.
#974011 - 08/25/12 01:02 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: December X]  
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Mike Dunbar Offline
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DRS,

I accept that your replies weren't about me. But I can also see why people would think some of them were about me when they read things like:

Quote
I dont think id listen to Mike. He posts an article and were all supposed to say... OH MY GOODNESS.. WHAT A GREAT ARTICLE? Reminds me of another site where one guy is considered a music business guru, but the only place hes known for that is on the site.


Quote
So Mike is a professional songwriter with pro cuts and gold records hanging on his wall?


Quote
There;s alot of folks who have the modesty moniker, but they really love when people bring it up.


Quote
There is a certain level of BS and assertion that goes along with posting articles off the net as if you wrote it.


And, I must admit, when I first read these I thought they were about me too.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#974017 - 08/25/12 01:14 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
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December X Offline
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Originally Posted by Mike Dunbar
DRS,

I accept that your replies weren't about me. But I can also see why people would think some of them were about me when they read things like:

Quote
I dont think id listen to Mike. He posts an article and were all supposed to say... OH MY GOODNESS.. WHAT A GREAT ARTICLE? Reminds me of another site where one guy is considered a music business guru, but the only place hes known for that is on the site.


Quote
So Mike is a professional songwriter with pro cuts and gold records hanging on his wall?


Quote
There;s alot of folks who have the modesty moniker, but they really love when people bring it up.


Quote
There is a certain level of BS and assertion that goes along with posting articles off the net as if you wrote it.


And, I must admit, when I first read these I thought they were about me too.


I wrote those replies to the individuals challenging me, I was trying to decipher why your word was gospel.

If you're not making a comfortable living or any kliving writing songs, which few are, then there isnt much seperation between plain folk and the rest.

Its not an insult to say u dont have gold records hanging on the wall, few do.

Indie success and small cuts are fine, and hard enough to get.

Making a real living in the songwriting business is darn near impossible.

Doing gigs, making some cds. going the diy rout, maybe u can make a living, but thats not easy either.


#974021 - 08/25/12 01:49 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: December X]  
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Mike Dunbar Offline
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Mike Dunbar  Offline
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Nashville Tennessee

DRS,



Quote
If you're not making a comfortable living or any kliving writing songs, which few are, then there isnt much seperation between plain folk and the rest.

I don't see any seperation, we're all the same in the eyes of God. It's we who create any false separation it is all opinion.

Quote
Its not an insult to say u dont have gold records hanging on the wall, few do.

I didn't take it as an insult, I took it as a question. It seemed as though you were making the old false assumption that one must have success in a field to teach it, coach it or mentor it. If that were true, Tiger Woods wouldn't go to swing coaches. Here's a good example. The Country Music Hall of Fame hired me to teach the Words and Music Program. The program taught high school students how to write songs. After a few years, the program got more successful so they brought in another songwriter to teach it as well. They had that songwriter observe one of my classes and ask me for pointers. That songwriter was Vince Gill.


Quote
Indie success and small cuts are fine, and hard enough to get.

Yes, and I honestly believe if I stuck with it I would have had major cuts. I made a decision that it would take years and it brought in no money, so I chose family over some self image as a songwriter or artist and went after a career as a bass player where I have had some major success.

Quote
Making a real living in the songwriting business is darn near impossible.

It sure is, I know a lot of people who do and as a mentor I try to give my perspective as to how they do it.

Quote
Doing gigs, making some cds. going the diy rout, maybe u can make a living, but thats not easy either.

I agree. But I know a lot of people who do well in that area too, and it is my duty as a mentor to give my perspective on this as well.



You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#974024 - 08/25/12 01:56 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
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December X Offline
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Originally Posted by Mike Dunbar

DRS,



Quote
If you're not making a comfortable living or any kliving writing songs, which few are, then there isnt much seperation between plain folk and the rest.

I don't see any seperation, we're all the same in the eyes of God. It's we who create any false separation it is all opinion.

Quote
Its not an insult to say u dont have gold records hanging on the wall, few do.

I didn't take it as an insult, I took it as a question. It seemed as though you were making the old false assumption that one must have success in a field to teach it, coach it or mentor it. If that were true, Tiger Woods wouldn't go to swing coaches. Here's a good example. The Country Music Hall of Fame hired me to teach the Words and Music Program. The program taught high school students how to write songs. After a few years, the program got more successful so they brought in another songwriter to teach it as well. They had that songwriter observe one of my classes and ask me for pointers. That songwriter was Vince Gill.


Quote
Indie success and small cuts are fine, and hard enough to get.

Yes, and I honestly believe if I stuck with it I would have had major cuts. I made a decision that it would take years and it brought in no money, so I chose family over some self image as a songwriter or artist and went after a career as a bass player where I have had some major success.

Quote
Making a real living in the songwriting business is darn near impossible.

It sure is, I know a lot of people who do and as a mentor I try to give my perspective as to how they do it.

Quote
Doing gigs, making some cds. going the diy rout, maybe u can make a living, but thats not easy either.

I agree. But I know a lot of people who do well in that area too, and it is my duty as a mentor to give my perspective on this as well.



Absolutely. Your doing it out of the goodness of your heart, I can appreciate it.

Hey, im going to be teaching my Niece and probably nephew to play guitar, do I anticpate them holding me in high regard?

Dahahahahahahahaha.

I more envision them telling me that the way they are doing it is right.

Thats the way it is I suppose.

Last edited by December Rock Star; 08/25/12 01:57 PM.
#974026 - 08/25/12 02:08 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: AaronAuthier]  
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Originally Posted by AaronAuthier
If you're well established you can probably break most of those rules.

LeeAnn Rimes hasn't really suffered too much.

But the Dixie Chicks suffered bad

Depends on the person I guess eh?


LeeAnn only participated in adultery. The Chicks dissed the hero of the free world.


#974185 - 08/26/12 08:39 PM Re: How to Destroy Your Good Reputation in the Music Business [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
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Pat Hardy Offline
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My youth was spent in the 60s and 70s, and I'm so glad there wasn't a world wide web back then. When it did come around, where most had access round about the year 2000, I was mature enough not to do stupid things ( therefore admitting maturity came to me very late in life smile

Pat Hardy Lockwood

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