Who's Online Now
13 registered members (Gavin Sinclair, Guy E. Trepanier, couchgrouch, Gary E. Andrews, Everett Adams, JAPOV, maccharles, 3 invisible), and 273 guests, and
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Member Spotlight
Sue Rarick
Sue Rarick
Oak Grove, KY
Posts: 363
Joined: September 2012
Show All Member Profiles 
What's Going On
The Hollows
by Gavin Sinclair. 08/18/19 09:47 AM
New Single
by couchgrouch. 08/18/19 09:45 AM
Lettin' Go
by Marvin Adcock. 08/18/19 07:53 AM
"Yippee Yi Yo" by Gary E. Andrews
by JAPOV. 08/18/19 01:36 AM
Space Oddity
by JAPOV. 08/18/19 01:24 AM
Two of a kind
by JAPOV. 08/18/19 01:12 AM
If You Love Her (Let Her Go)
by ckiphen. 08/17/19 11:22 AM
Need to promote my show!
by Cheyenne. 08/17/19 04:03 AM
Tip Of The Week: Indieconnect Newsletter
by Gary E. Andrews. 08/17/19 03:12 AM
Precious in My Sight
by Walt Lamberg. 08/16/19 05:20 PM
Breathe
by JAPOV. 08/15/19 10:52 PM
Just another Catch To Her Slaughter.
by JaneK. 08/15/19 09:46 PM
My first co-write since Helen
by Roy Cooper. 08/15/19 09:40 PM
Any thoughts on double song titles
by Roy Cooper. 08/15/19 09:30 PM
::: JUST HOLD ME TONIGHT :::
by JaneK. 08/15/19 09:27 PM
A Bright New Day
by JaneK. 08/15/19 09:10 PM
A Vessel For You
by JaneK. 08/15/19 08:57 PM
Grapefruit Moon (DuMond)
by JaneK. 08/15/19 08:49 PM
Cotton Covers
by Neil Cotton. 08/15/19 08:02 AM
California
by Tom Franz. 08/14/19 10:39 PM
"ALL THE FEELS" A true love song.
by Cheyenne. 08/14/19 12:16 PM
Lonely fool
by Irwin. 08/14/19 10:18 AM
The Journey's Only Half The Battle.
by MFB III. 08/14/19 10:06 AM
"She's Comin' Home With Me" Gary E. Andrews
by Gary E. Andrews. 08/14/19 09:01 AM
Royalties & Cue Sheets...
by John Lawrence Schick. 08/13/19 12:45 PM
Rose Colored Shades
by ckiphen. 08/13/19 12:13 PM
Tangled Up In Lies
by ckiphen. 08/13/19 12:09 PM
THAT'S THE TIME I THINK OF YOU- MAB video
by Sue Rarick. 08/13/19 09:21 AM
Newsltr Larry Statts, Columbus Folk Music Society
by Gary E. Andrews. 08/12/19 06:22 PM
Down By The Ocean
by GocartMoz. 08/12/19 09:41 AM
Top Posters(All Time)
Calvin 19,759
Travis david 11,557
Kevin Emmrich 10,549
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Two Singers 9,572
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 8,844
glynda 8,590
Mike Dunbar 8,574
Tricia Baker 8,318
Colin Ward 7,905
couchgrouch 7,534
Corey 7,357
Dave Rice 7,302
Wyman Lloyd 6,578
Mark Kaufman 6,524
Joe Wrabek 6,403
Vicarn 6,133
ben willis 6,099
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,725
Linda Sings 5,604
niteshift 5,478
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Derek Hines 4,893
Neil Cotton 4,884
DonnaMarilyn 4,652
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,357
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Tom Shea 4,179
Cindy Miller 4,178
Roy Cooper 4,082
nightengale 4,080
TamsNumber4 4,033
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,803
MFB III 3,770
Dan Sullivan 3,710
beechnut79 3,500
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
E Swartz 3,335
Bill Cooper 3,279
John Hoffman 3,199
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
PopTodd 2,890
Harriet Ames 2,870
Nigel Quin 2,812
MidniteBob 2,707
Nelson 2,570
Tom Tracy 2,558
Polly Hager 2,526
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,242
Judy Hollier 2,232
Wendy D 2,209
Erica Ellis 2,202
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,012
DukeWill 1,984
floyd jane 1,982
maccharles 1,948
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Iggy 1,649
Noel Downs 1,620
Rick Heenan 1,597
Cal 1,574
Jack Swain 1,554
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Martin Lide 1,520
Tom Breshers 1,487
RogerS 1,461
Tom Franz 1,455
Chuck Crowe 1,441
Ralph Blight 1,440
Kenneth Cade 1,429
Rick Norton 1,428
GocartMoz 1,425
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,408
in2piano 1,404
Stan Simons 1,402
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,301
scottandrew 1,292
DakLander 1,265
Fdemetrio 1,243
PeteG 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,230
Glen King 1,214
IdeaGuy 1,209
AaronAuthier 1,177
Diane Ewing 1,158
Gerry 1,143
summeoyo 1,121
joro 1,081
BobbyJoe 1,075
lane1777 1,065
S.DEE 1,040
Deej56 1,037
yann 1,037
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
Wolvman 960
IronKnee 947
Jak Kelly 912
krtinberg 890
Drifter 886
Petra 883
9ne 879
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 827
90 dB 804
Juan 797
TKO 784
frahmes 781
teletwang 762
Andy K 742
tbryson 737
Andy Kemp 733
ant 732
Jackie444 731
3daveyO3 704
Dayson 703
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
Irwin 626
CG King 622
douglas 621
Pat Hardy 614
Mel 614
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 589
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
Moosesong 583
qbaum 570
nitepiano 566
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
BonzaiWag 523
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 511
goodfolks 499
R&M 492
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
dmk 442
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
Rob L 426
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 399
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
Cecilee 379
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
java 374
spidey 371
sweetsong 370
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#972295 - 08/15/12 01:08 AM Tube Amps and Muddiness  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 854
December X Offline
Top 500 Poster
December X  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 854
Was at the guitar center today, trying out a 52 reissue fender, talk about pricey.

But I tried the vox ac 15, and a few fender tube amps.

Why are they so muddy? I found the only I could get a real bright was by either cranking trebl all the way right, bass all the way left.

Or flipping to lead on the tele.

Then I go to solid state Marshall and its clean as hell.

Why are tube amps so highly regarded and sought after when its so hard to get a clean sound out of it?

#972374 - 08/15/12 09:30 AM Re: Tube Amps and Muddiness [Re: December X]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,905
Colin Ward Offline
Colin Ward  Offline


Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,905
Saint Petersburg. FL
Tube amps can be clean or distorted or both - depends on the guitar pickups, the amp design and the volume setting. Tubes provide a pleasant sounding distortion which is what people like while solid state distortion is or was harsh and nasty sounding although solid state has come a long way.

For clean tube sound, play through a Fender Deluxe Reverb, or a Twin Reverb. Even a Fender Blues Junior is pretty clean unless you really crank it.

Vox and Marshall amps are loved for their overdriven tones more than their clean so they may not be for you.

The tone controls are there for you to use. If you like a very bright tone with the treble up and the bass down, that is fine.

Hot or overwound pickups on the guitar will lower the amount of treble and increase the distortion or muddiness. Run of the mill Tele pickups are not overwound but some Teles have way different pickups in them.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#972394 - 08/15/12 12:57 PM Re: Tube Amps and Muddiness [Re: Colin Ward]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 854
December X Offline
Top 500 Poster
December X  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by Colin Ward
Tube amps can be clean or distorted or both - depends on the guitar pickups, the amp design and the volume setting. Tubes provide a pleasant sounding distortion which is what people like while solid state distortion is or was harsh and nasty sounding although solid state has come a long way.

For clean tube sound, play through a Fender Deluxe Reverb, or a Twin Reverb. Even a Fender Blues Junior is pretty clean unless you really crank it.

Vox and Marshall amps are loved for their overdriven tones more than their clean so they may not be for you.

The tone controls are there for you to use. If you like a very bright tone with the treble up and the bass down, that is fine.

Hot or overwound pickups on the guitar will lower the amount of treble and increase the distortion or muddiness. Run of the mill Tele pickups are not overwound but some Teles have way different pickups in them.


I had a blues jr a while back and I was never happy with it. Same problem, have to play rhythm with the lead pickup. otherwise it sounds like you;re wearing headphones.

Marshalls have always been really clean, which I like, but then the sound is more hard rock or heavy metal, which is not really what I do.

I guess a pedal eq would do something, but I find cranking treble only thins the sound out without cleaning it up.


#972413 - 08/15/12 05:08 PM Re: Tube Amps and Muddiness [Re: December X]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,905
Colin Ward Offline
Colin Ward  Offline


Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,905
Saint Petersburg. FL
I guess your definition of clean and mine are not the same.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#972414 - 08/15/12 05:21 PM Re: Tube Amps and Muddiness [Re: Colin Ward]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 854
December X Offline
Top 500 Poster
December X  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by Colin Ward
I guess your definition of clean and mine are not the same.


yes I guess. Playing through a tube amp sounds like having the tone knob of the guitar rolled to th emiddle instead of all the way to the right.

A muddiness in the eq.

Not so much a muddiness due to distortion.

#972418 - 08/15/12 06:07 PM Re: Tube Amps and Muddiness [Re: December X]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,905
Colin Ward Offline
Colin Ward  Offline


Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,905
Saint Petersburg. FL
At the very beginning of this track is my Strat plugged into my Ampeg tube amp. I would call that clean - there are some more clean fills as the song unfolds.

Dream On Down to the Keys


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#972485 - 08/16/12 12:54 AM Re: Tube Amps and Muddiness [Re: Colin Ward]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 854
December X Offline
Top 500 Poster
December X  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by Colin Ward
At the very beginning of this track is my Strat plugged into my Ampeg tube amp. I would call that clean - there are some more clean fills as the song unfolds.

Dream On Down to the Keys


sounds good, I was playing a strat through a vox vt 15 sounded good. 600 bucks for that bad boy.

Have to sell 600 downloads to get that back lol

#1137726 - 02/24/18 12:01 AM Re: Tube Amps and Muddiness [Re: December X]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,081
joro Offline
Top 500 Poster
joro  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,081
Massachusetts,USA
Meas Boogie.

Specifically a Nomad 55 with one 12" Celection.

Clean or dirty it is all you have ever wanted and all you will ever need,

gigged with one for many years on the Boston Circuit and always sounded good either with my Taylor or my Les Paul

#1137727 - 02/24/18 12:02 AM Re: Tube Amps and Muddiness [Re: December X]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,081
joro Offline
Top 500 Poster
joro  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,081
Massachusetts,USA
also, you can change the bias...run 6L6s or EL 84s

#1137729 - 02/24/18 12:49 AM Re: Tube Amps and Muddiness [Re: December X]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 363
Sue Rarick Offline
Top 500 Poster
Sue Rarick  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 363
Oak Grove, KY
Back in the 70's many of the jazz players were using solid state amps for a cleaner less distorted tone. I personally do prefer a solid state amp like the acoustic Crate amp usually used by classical musicians in large venues - No longer made but you had better have a good sounding instrument for it to work. Oddly my Gretsch Astrojet sounds sweeeeeeeet through it. Better than it did when I ran it through my old Vox Bentley II tube




#1137780 - 02/24/18 06:07 PM Re: Tube Amps and Muddiness [Re: Sue Rarick]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,081
joro Offline
Top 500 Poster
joro  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,081
Massachusetts,USA
Originally Posted by Sue Rarick
Back in the 70's many of the jazz players were using solid state amps for a cleaner less distorted tone. I personally do prefer a solid state amp like the acoustic Crate amp usually used by classical musicians in large venues - No longer made but you had better have a good sounding instrument for it to work. Oddly my Gretsch Astrojet sounds sweeeeeeeet through it. Better than it did when I ran it through my old Vox Bentley II tube


Yes!
I have one...awesome amp.my $5.00 amp

Last edited by joro; 02/24/18 06:15 PM.
#1137816 - 02/25/18 12:27 PM Re: Tube Amps and Muddiness [Re: December X]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,227
Ray E. Strode Offline
Top 30 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Offline
Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,227
Brunswick, Ga. USA
Well,
For some reason they still make tube Amps brand new. Why? Because people want them. Now Solid State Amps are probably cleaner and much more accurate. Tube Designs are from way back probably developed from Military designs of the second world war. Like everything else there are a lot of differences in amps and you just have to try a few out to see which one you like. There have been many, many outstanding recordings made with tube equipment long before solid state became available.


Ray E. Strode
#1139213 - 03/30/18 10:03 PM Re: Tube Amps and Muddiness [Re: December X]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,001
Jody Whitesides Offline
Jody Whitesides  Offline

Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,001
Park City, UT, USA
Some people have even moved on to software amps.


Jody Whitesides
A Funky Audio Lap Dance For Your Ears!
www.jodywhitesides.com
#1140644 - 05/10/18 05:31 AM Re: Tube Amps and Muddiness [Re: December X]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,803
Kolstad Offline
Top 100 Poster
Kolstad  Offline
Top 100 Poster

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,803
Denmark
I love tube amps. like Colin said, you can get any sound you want with the dials, and they have enough volume to gig with. If you hear a muddy sound, it is most likely the pickups in the guitar you use. The amp just amplifies what you put into it.


Buzz Tracks
Making media sweeter

Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/buzztracks
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/buzztracks
#1140650 - 05/10/18 07:52 PM Re: Tube Amps and Muddiness [Re: December X]  
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 497
TC Perkins Offline
Top 500 Poster
TC Perkins  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 497
Virginia
I have never had an issue with tube amps being muddy unless the tubes were fried.

If you want a pristine clean that can be made as bright as you want it - ROLAND JAZZ CHORUS amp is the deal. They keep their value, too; I just sold my Roland JC-120 (1984) for $650 which is way more than I paid for it. I assume the newer models will hold their value but that is no guarantee.

The trick with tube amps is getting to know them. For instance, with my VOX if my guitar pickups are turned up (no pedals) there is some harmonic distortion even at minimum settings. Many tube amps are designed so that they will really respond to your playing and pickup volume so nailing the strings with your pick and having your pickups turned up will give you saturation. This varies widely by amp but is a general trend in all of them.

Another point I would like to make is use whichever pickup you like the sound of on each particular passage. "Rhythm" and "Lead" pickup designations are bogus. I tend to use my back pickup (treble or "lead") more on chords and my front ("rhythm") pickup on single notes which is a trick I picked up from Santana. I just flip the pickup settings, volume, and tone until I get the sound I want and ignore what the pickup designation is.

I second Joro on Mesa amps. I really want a Mesa Boogie - those amps are incredible (but VERY pricey).

Peace,
TC


If it has strings I will find a way to play it!

You can hear my tunes at https://soundcloud.com/tc-gypsy
#1141371 - 06/04/18 12:33 PM Re: Tube Amps and Muddiness [Re: December X]  
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,243
Fdemetrio Offline
Top 200 Poster
Fdemetrio  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,243
Well the op says he was using a USA fender re issue, a $1000+ guitar. I doubt it's the guitar

Tube amps can never be as clean as solid state, just as reel to reel tape recording can never be as clean as digital. But there is warmth and subtleties that come out with tubes that becomes a trade off

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 06/04/18 12:33 PM.

Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Membership
Join Just Plain Folks
to receive the free
JPNotes Newsletter!
*this is separate from
message board registration*

Newest Members
mik1953, sklove, Catfish, JAPOV, ali1019
21205 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums116
Topics119,215
Posts1,123,568
Members21,205
Average Posts Daily18
Most Online1,541
Feb 21st, 2019
Just Plain Quotes
"You really shouldn't listen too much to your positive press or your negative press. Both are probably inaccurate. But if you find you must heed the opinions of others, why not choose the 80% who love you?" -Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
Helen Caddes (37), Michael Borges (D) (67)
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0