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#946003 - 02/16/12 10:03 PM Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks  
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Hi,

A friend sent me a recording today that he did in band in a box, using real tracks. Didn't sound bad, but not great either.

It seems so tempting to use BIAB, because of the ease of use, and the way to tap into sounds that could be hard to get on your own.

It seems every time I turn around there is a new version, I've yet to try it cause, most what I hear is good sounding idea recordings, and not radio ready tracks.

I just wondered if anybody is having success with BIAB tracks?

I dont like how guitars sound in it but I could live with bass, drums and piano. the sax sounds pretty good too.

Still seems like glitzy elevator music to me, but id appreciate all feedback on it.

Last edited by December Rock Star; 02/16/12 10:04 PM.
#946016 - 02/16/12 11:51 PM Re: Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks [Re: December X]  
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I use BIAB quite a bit and I am quite happy with the real tracks and the ease of using the bass/drum/piano parts. I also am not afraid to use the acoustic guitars, electric rhythm guitars, mandolins, banjos, fiddles and pedal steels that are available. I haven't had too much luck with the horns, though (except maybe on this one: Alchemy)

Can folks produce radio-ready material with them? Probably. Can I? Probably not (ha, ha).


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @ FAWM 2017)
#946018 - 02/17/12 12:27 AM Re: Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks [Re: December X]  
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ROCK STAR--

BIAB CAN BE SAVED AS MIDI FILES -- LOADED INTO GARAGEBAND ON MACS, WHERE THE SAMPLES ARE THEN PLAYED-ON DIFFERENT TRACKS AND CAN BE SUB-ED WITH DIFFERENT INSTRUMENTATION--THEN LOADED INTO LOGIC AND REFINED--I'M ONLY SCRATCHING THE SURFACE--AND MAYBE IN TIME I'LL DO ONE RIGHT--SOMETIMES, I DO GET LUCKY!

BIAB IS FOR NON-PLAYERS AND GIVES A GOOD IDEA OF WHAT THE SONGS MAY SOUND LIKE--

Mackie

#946022 - 02/17/12 12:56 AM Re: Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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That's not bad Kevin!

I actually liked that horn, I wasnt crazy about the drums however, Ive heard rum machines that sounded better. And id never used it for guitar but that acoustic didnt sound bad.

It's certainly good "enough" ish, and great for ideaing a song.

Thanks for the info

#946023 - 02/17/12 12:56 AM Re: Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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That's not bad Kevin!

I actually liked that horn, I wasnt crazy about the drums however, Ive heard drum machines that sounded better. And id never used it for guitar but that acoustic didnt sound bad.

It's certainly good "enough" ish, and great for ideaing a song.

Thanks for the info

Last edited by December Rock Star; 02/17/12 01:00 AM.
#946024 - 02/17/12 12:58 AM Re: Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks [Re: Mackie H.]  
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Yeah, but alot of us cant play everything greatly.

Guitar bass and programed drums no problem for me. Piano, horns, mandolin not so much.

Id like to see how I could mix things together,

Thanks for the 411


#946053 - 02/17/12 02:35 AM Re: Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks [Re: December X]  
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I don't use BIAB, but I have used Jammer, which is similar to BIAB, for piano parts in some songs. But I modified the algorithms which generate the piano parts to get them to sound like I wanted. Jammer provides the capability for the user to modify the algorithms. I also did some tweaking of the resulting MIDI files to make them more realistic sounding. I also added some live played parts to the MIDI files.

Why didn't I just play them all live? Because I suck as a piano player.

Last edited by Andy K; 02/17/12 02:38 AM.

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#947817 - 02/28/12 01:52 AM Re: Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks [Re: Andy K]  
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With the exception of the vocalist, this recording is entirely BIAB, and it saved me a lot of money in demo costs. Not only that, several publishers commented on the high quality of the production.

http://soundcloud.com/patricklockwood/somewhere-to-ride/s-RviMF

BIAB works better, in my opinion, for vintage sounds, than modern sounds, and I write mostly in vintage styles, country, jazz, etc.

#947830 - 02/28/12 04:11 AM Re: Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks [Re: Pat Hardy]  
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Excellent man. You sound like Willie.

Yeah, it's never going to work for rock music, for some reason rock guitar can never be artificially reproduced, I think it's the sliding nature and that space between changing chords, where you sometimes get fret noise.

But I agree it can work great for traditional jazz or blues, or country, I have heard some good tradional country tunes done in it.

It sure does seem handy, recording music take so much work, and its hard enough to be great at even just lyrics, let alone, melody, arrangement, singing, recording, producing.

But then again, how unique can you sound using it?



#947832 - 02/28/12 04:36 AM Re: Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks [Re: December X]  
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Originally Posted by December Rock Star
Excellent man. You sound like Willie.

Yeah, it's never going to work for rock music, for some reason rock guitar can never be artificially reproduced, I think it's the sliding nature and that space between changing chords, where you sometimes get fret noise.

But I agree it can work great for traditional jazz or blues, or country, I have heard some good tradional country tunes done in it.

It sure does seem handy, recording music take so much work, and its hard enough to be great at even just lyrics, let alone, melody, arrangement, singing, recording, producing.

But then again, how unique can you sound using it?




The vocalist is Gregg Coad, a Willie Nelson impersonator here in San Diego. I sing, occasionally, but I'm pitchy more often that I like.

As for "uniqueness", if you are composing, say, a slick pop tune or a rock tune that is riff dependent, arrangement dependent, it won't work. But some songs just need piano and vocals, and the melody and words are good enough for the demo. So, BIAB has it's legit usages, depending on the demo's needs. Also, on the jazz tune I posted in the Mp3 section, the rhyhm section is BIAB, bass, drums, and guitar, and the soloist, the lead guitar and flute, both the same guy, was hired to give the feel a more "unique" treatment. So you can save money if BIAB has some usable tracks, and layer on top with live musicians. Remember, BIAB "realtracks", are real musicians, not "midi". The drummer on my jazz track is Terry Clarke, a famous jazz percussionist.

#947856 - 02/28/12 02:29 PM Re: Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks [Re: Pat Hardy]  
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Oh, I think it can do more contemporary country tunes, too: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=620106&songID=10844690 -- Note: I am changing the lyrics on verse 2 and there is a lot of heat air handler noise in the vocal track (ha, ha).

Works well for the traditional country sound, as you have pointed out: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=1144009&songID=10399919

Kevin

Last edited by Kevin Emmrich; 02/28/12 02:50 PM.

"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @ FAWM 2017)
#947859 - 02/28/12 02:49 PM Re: Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Sounds good. Works for that style too.

I think the future of BIAB is going to lie in editable scoring.

Like for example, you want an exact bass line, so you enter the bass line via notation, and then real tracks plays it.

I dont see why that cant happen, you can already do that with midi, and when it does happen, BIAB could charge whatever they wanted for it, people would pay it!

Last edited by December Rock Star; 02/28/12 02:51 PM.
#947861 - 02/28/12 02:52 PM Re: Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks [Re: December X]  
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Originally Posted by December Rock Star
... Like for example, you want an exact bass line, so you enter the bass line via notation, and then real tracks plays it.


Ha, ha -- I posted the wrong link for song #1!!

Well, we already have that -- its called midi, which will sound as good as your hardware/software synths will allow. If you break the RT's all the way down to single notes, you just have another sampling technique which is midi/soundfonts all the way.


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @ FAWM 2017)
#947864 - 02/28/12 03:03 PM Re: Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Yeah but midi is midi, real tracks would be real samples playing it.

I also think Biab could record longer phrases, like ez drummer is 1 to 2 measures of playing at a time, thats why it sounds so good.

BIAB records a chord, and then uses an algorithm to assign it to different chords,(I think). if they recorded entire phrases of like 8 measures, you wouldnt notice the mechanical feel, as much.

I think BIAB sounds good and is a good tool, but I wonder why it still sounds like the music is "quantized" like midi, and why it sounds like call waiting music.





Last edited by December Rock Star; 02/28/12 03:10 PM.
#947870 - 02/28/12 03:51 PM Re: Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks [Re: December X]  
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Originally Posted by December Rock Star
.......
Like for example, you want an exact bass line, so you enter the bass line via notation, and then real tracks plays it.

.....

I had a copy of BIAB years ago and it had a notation editor so you could do as you suggest, add a line via notation and save it for use.


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#947873 - 02/28/12 03:59 PM Re: Thoughts on Band In A BOX/real tracks [Re: Dak Lander]  
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Yeah, I think you can still enter melodies for example, but it's you playing it, not the real tracks.

See the thing is, if you play a bass line on a keyboard, you dont get the real bass player feel, so the ideal thing would be for the real tracks to recognize the melody you enter, and play it.

It's asking alot but eventually it will be.


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