Who's Online Now
10 members (Fdemetrio, VNORTH2, Gary E. Andrews, Perry Neal Crawford, couchgrouch, Sunset Poet, Guy E. Trepanier, bennash, Bill Draper, David Gill), 4,088 guests, and 270 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
What's Going On
Does Billy Joel belong in top 10?
by Fdemetrio - 03/28/24 11:10 PM
It Is Done
by Sunset Poet - 03/28/24 07:44 PM
Music Industry Summit, Athens Ohio
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/28/24 06:14 PM
Can you save me from me
by VNORTH2 - 03/28/24 03:11 PM
As human as yo
by ckiphen - 03/28/24 09:55 AM
Fox News Reports Stunning Archeological Discovery.
by couchgrouch - 03/27/24 08:02 PM
Wasting My Time
by David Gill - 03/27/24 07:42 AM
Song available
by JAPOV - 03/26/24 03:38 PM
YELLIN AT CLOUDS
by David Gill - 03/26/24 03:20 PM
"Reliving" the great Lou Rawls!
by Brian Austin Whitney - 03/26/24 01:49 PM
::: The Best In My Life :::
by Bill Draper - 03/26/24 01:32 PM
The show must go on
by ckiphen - 03/26/24 09:06 AM
NYC Motel 1972
by rpirone - 03/26/24 12:43 AM
usic Industry Summitt
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/25/24 11:32 PM
The Rant Arena
by JAPOV - 03/25/24 07:39 PM
Song available
by Raymond Byabazaire - 03/25/24 11:55 AM
Song available
by Raymond Byabazaire - 03/25/24 11:55 AM
Lancaster Festival, Lancaster, Ohio
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/25/24 10:51 AM
Wasting my time
by Rob B. - 03/25/24 03:45 AM
Tom Waits.. What's he building
by Fdemetrio - 03/25/24 12:09 AM
Rick Beato, bad lyrics
by Fdemetrio - 03/24/24 11:23 PM
Inspirational Videos Post Them Here
by Sunset Poet - 03/24/24 11:27 AM
Used to take a Genius to Mix
by Fdemetrio - 03/23/24 11:00 AM
"Broken Places"
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/22/24 07:45 PM
All You Are Is A Lie
by Sunset Poet - 03/22/24 06:55 PM
Pour Choices
by Gavin Sinclair - 03/22/24 05:29 PM
Billy's 30 year overdue song.
by Fdemetrio - 03/22/24 01:30 PM
Make my dreams come true
by ckiphen - 03/22/24 10:51 AM
Top Posters
Calvin 19,857
Travis david 12,264
Kevin Emmrich 10,941
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Two Singers 9,649
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 9,003
glynda 8,683
Mike Dunbar 8,574
Tricia Baker 8,318
couchgrouch 8,160
Colin Ward 7,911
Corey 7,357
Vicarn 6,916
Mark Kaufman 6,589
ben willis 6,114
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,725
Linda Sings 5,608
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Fdemetrio 4,990
Neil Cotton 4,909
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,670
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,389
Roy Cooper 4,271
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Tom Shea 4,195
Cindy Miller 4,178
TamsNumber4 4,171
MFB III 4,143
Sunset Poet 4,126
nightengale 4,096
E Swartz 3,985
JAPOV 3,973
beechnut79 3,878
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,845
Dan Sullivan 3,710
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
John Hoffman 3,199
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
Nigel Quin 2,891
PopTodd 2,890
Harriet Ames 2,870
MidniteBob 2,761
Nelson 2,616
Tom Tracy 2,558
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,246
Wendy D 2,235
Judy Hollier 2,232
Erica Ellis 2,202
maccharles 2,134
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,041
DukeWill 2,002
floyd jane 1,985
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Iggy 1,652
Noel Downs 1,633
Rick Heenan 1,608
Cal 1,574
GocartMoz 1,559
Jack Swain 1,554
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
RogerS 1,481
Tom Franz 1,473
Chuck Crowe 1,441
Ralph Blight 1,440
Rick Norton 1,429
Kenneth Cade 1,429
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,409
in2piano 1,404
Stan Simons 1,402
Deej56 1,385
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,301
scottandrew 1,294
lane1777 1,280
Gerry 1,280
DakLander 1,265
IronKnee 1,262
PeteG 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,235
Glen King 1,214
VNORTH2 1,212
IdeaGuy 1,209
AaronAuthier 1,177
summeoyo 1,174
Diane Ewing 1,162
ckiphen 1,120
joro 1,082
BobbyJoe 1,075
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
9ne 1,035
David Gill 1,032
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
90 dB 964
Wolvman 960
Jak Kelly 912
krtinberg 890
Drifter 886
Petra 883
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 829
ant 798
Juan 797
TKO 784
Dayson 781
frahmes 781
bennash 763
teletwang 762
Andy K 750
Andy Kemp 749
tbryson 737
Jackie444 731
Irwin 720
3daveyO3 704
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
Pat Hardy 692
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Moosesong 668
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
R&M 614
Mel 614
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 590
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
qbaum 570
nitepiano 566
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
BonzaiWag 523
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 513
goodfolks 499
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
dmk 442
Rob L 439
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 399
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Alek 386
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
Ann_F 379
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
java 374
ddreuter 371
spidey 371
sweetsong 370
danny 367
Rob B. 364
Jim Ryan 360
papaG 353
Z - man 350
JamesDF5 348
John K 348
Jaden 344
TheBaz 340
Steggy 339
leif 339
tonedeaf 336
rickwork 334
Eddie Ray 332
Johnboy 328
Bob Lever 328
Helicon1 327
lucian 326
Muskie 321
kc 319
Z. Mulls 318
ptondreau 313
ONOFFON 312
Chris B. 310
trush 304
ed323 297
Ellen M 294
markus-ky 293
lizzorn 291
nicnac49 290
Char 286
ktunes 285
Top Likes Received
JAPOV 86
VNORTH2 45
bennash 38
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Top 20 Poster
OP Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Just got brand new music software (Band In A Box - Everything Pak)and this is our first cut using it. We had the software but 4 days and it has a strong learning curve. But, I think I got the basics under control. We anticipate that a lot of you might not like the "fake and glitzy" line in verse 3...but we kinda do like it...let us know if we're way off base. open to all other crits & comments, too.

This has a Barry White feel to it. Sorry, but ya gotta listen to me sing on this one...not Diana! Hey, you can't win win 'em all!

Si8nce this is our first with the new program, please let us know what you think. We like it a lot better than what we had before. Thanks again...Al & Di

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11122170

There Ain’t No Way
© 2011 Alan D. David, BMI / Diana Bowers, BMI – All Rights Reserved

(v1)
You never ask, but I know you have to wonder
If you’ll always be my heart’s only hunger
Well, don’t you worry, you’ll never have to grieve
You’re everything that I could ever need
When I’m feeling down, you’re my inspiration
When all is lost, you’re love is my salvation
I’ll never leave you, girl, there ain’t no way

(v2)
We both know, sometimes my eyes are lookin’
It’s nothing more, there ain’t nothing cookin’
Baby I know where my bread is buttered
My heart is locked, shackled up and shuttered
You’ll never have, to wonder bout me Baby
My love is real, ain’t no place for maybe
Girl I’ll never be untrue, there ain’t no way

CHORUS

Don’t you worry Honey, I’ll always be your man
If nothin’ else, I hope you understand
I ain’t goin’ nowhere, ain’t gonna play
No, there ain’t no way

INSTRUMENTAL

(v3)
Our love is Heaven, and you’re a perfect angel
Girl you’re so lovely, I wouldn’t want to change you
There’s not a thing, I need that you can’t give me
The love we share, is real not fake or glitzy
Oh it’s for real, no lies or pretensions
You always prove, the best of your intentions
So if you ever ask, there ain’t no way

REPEAT CHORUS

Last edited by Al David; 10/10/11 06:36 AM.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,857
Likes: 1
Top 10 Poster
Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,857
Likes: 1
Hi Alan/Diana,

Wll it sounds like you got the software working pretty good !
smokey cool song.
I like the way you slide into the HOOK !

you mentioned THIS line...
The love we share, is real not fake or glitzy

I don't have a problem with the words FAKE OR GLITSY

but...

I think the line can be SMOOTHER if you omit the word REAL.
The love we share, is real not fake or glitzy


The love we share, is real not fake or glitzy


Calvin


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/calvinstewart



Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Top 20 Poster
OP Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Calvin...

Howdy, buddy! Thanks for the visit and the comments. When I redo this one, I'll try it the way you suggested. If it works vocally, it's a done deal!

I'm still very basic with the program. As I learn more, I'll be able to give the verses more variety and put some layering and builds in the music. It's a very complicated program...but I'm gettin gthere! Thanks again..,.

Alan & Diana

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,262
Likes: 19
Top 200 Poster
Offline
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,262
Likes: 19
Hey there Al.....I think the music is really smooth and polished sounding,....I kinda prefer a more edgy and unpolished rock sound, but this is, I think, a particular genre (where this sound is king)....I think this would be considered "Lounge Music"...pretty cool!
As far as the line,"...is not fake or glitzy" unless the word or line just simply stubs the toe of the reader, I say leave it alone to the writer's choice. I get that all day long, and for the most-part, I believe it really doesn't matter. Sometimes, the odd phrasing is a center of controversy (that's a good thing!).
Good stuff buddy..... -Tom

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Top 20 Poster
OP Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Tom...

Thanks a bunch! Appreciate your comments. I tend to agree with you about the words on a lyric...if they don't totally trip the listener and work...let 'em be! For Country music, the lyric is a little more important and I give it much more detailed consideration. But for this genre, if the lyric works and isn't a tripwire, and suits the rest of the lyric, I'll usually keep it.

Uh...in a couple of days, I'll have one with a real edgy distortion guitar for you. It will be called "Addicted". Hope it works for you when I post it.

All the best...

Al (and Di)

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,941
Likes: 3
Top 10 Poster
Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,941
Likes: 3
Now we're talking. BIAB is a super cool tool, I am big fan of it. The big key is to mix in some "real" Al guitar playing in there to make it sound even more realistic. It sounds like you are in there, but if you're not -- it still sounds good. Nothing sounds midi here (ha, ha).

Barry White would be proud. Sax solo worked out well in this one, I have had trouble making the saxes sound good for me, but it worked here.

Kevin


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Top 20 Poster
OP Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Hey Kevin...

I was anxiously awaiting your comment...glad I'm no longer the "Midi Meister"! Ha!!! Glad the song works for you. The vocal was a huge stretch for me...literally and figuratively. It seems to have come out decently, though.

I have become an instant fan of BIAB. Now, once I learn all the nuansces, maybe I can get some really nice sounds! I'm working on it...big learning curve! I have BIAB 2011.5 Everything pak. Very expensive...but it sure makes some nice sounds!

Thanks again...

Al (and Di)

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 945
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 945
Yes.... I love this!!! Sounds really great... very smooth, jazzy, and Barry-ish!!! That sax is phenomenal in there!!

And your ending was super... I've had the most trouble to get my endings to sound natural, and not chopped off!! Awesome work for only having the program a couple of days!

I thought the lyrics worked fine, but Calvin's sug is fine, too. Whichever way you prefer it!

Nice job!! smile

--Jen


The dictionary is the only place where success comes before work.--Mark Twain
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Top 20 Poster
OP Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Hi Jen...

My gosh...you're too danged nice with your comments...thank you so much! Di and I are so pleased with your comments. We were real happy with the progress I've already made with thre software (she's pretty much a music widow right now!). She got the lyric off the ground and then we hammered out the rest of it together.

Vocally, this was a real stretch for me...literally and figuritively. I really pressed on those hugh notes. And getting rid of my Traditional Country influence in my vocal style went easier than I had expected. I really enjoyed breaking out this way with the vocal!!!

Glad you enjoyed it. And thanks for reenforcing the "Barry Style". We appreciate your input so much!

All the best...

Al & Di

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,082
Likes: 1
Top 10 Poster
Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,082
Likes: 1
LOL - took you 4 whole days, huh? grin

Seriously, I'm impressed, Al - that sounded great!

And that's a terrific lyric too - it's very clever and it fits the music beautifully.

I haven't realized how much I miss hearing this kind of music - I think you and Di should "take it on the road". smile

Scott

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,827
Top 50 Poster
Offline
Top 50 Poster
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,827
Hey Al,

Real good sound for BIAB. As they say, "It ain't what you got, but how you use it" grin

I almost expected a very repetitive loop type of thing, but the arrangement came up very smooth.

As a songwriters tool for formatting, I think BIAB is a great idea, but you've shown how software properly used, along with musical ability, can really push a tune along.

Does it do a score also ? You write really intersting tunes, but it would take me a month of Sundays to follow it ( musically ) without a score. LOL

Anyways, good stuff for the first cab off the rank !

cheers, niteshift

PS - a few brass stabs might add a bit of punch also.

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,271
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,271
Originally Posted by Al David
This has a Barry White feel to it.


Wow you sure are right there Al.

I think this is great. Not being a composer or musician I only comment on what I hear as a listener. I I hear a real good song.

God Bless Roy and Helen


'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Top 20 Poster
OP Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Thanks a bunch, Scott. We're thrilled you enjoyed it! Yeah, these types of songs had so much flare and drive...we miss them, too! Heck, at my age, taking it on the road would be akiller...ha! But, if the checks were adequate..well...........

Thanks!Wishing you everything good...

Al & Di

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Top 20 Poster
OP Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Roy..

Hope you and Helen are having a wonderful day...your comments sure did make mine and Di's day a lot nicer...thanks so much! God Bless...

Al & Di

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Top 20 Poster
OP Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Hey Shifty...

Thanks so much! Glad this one suits your musical pallette! Coming from you, those are some very encouraging words! I, too, that about a few horn stabs in the 2nd and 3rd verses. But, have to learn the equipment better to be bale to place them...I'm still an idiot to much of the program! And according to Di, an idiot at a lot of other things, too! smile I digress (in self-defense!)

Once I really learn the software, I'm expecting to have some decent quality tunes to post.

Thanks again...

Al & Di

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,199
J
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
J
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,199
Al,
sounds to me like you got it going on. If you'll excuse me I'm going back for more of my favorites from your pages.

John


Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword never had an editor.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 115
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 115
Great stuff real smooth!


I can tell you what I am not
I just can't tell you what I am
I am just slippin' down this road
no longer with any plan
stoney rohde

by stoney rohde
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 458
Top 500 Poster
Offline
Top 500 Poster
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 458
wonderful song, and WOW, it's only first cut! it LEts me think about , yes, Barry White or the great Tom Jones. All tracks are MIDI? What is real instrument? I'm very curious about it!

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Top 20 Poster
OP Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Hey John...

So nice to hear from you! Glad this one suits you! You some kind of lyricist!!!!

Thanks for the visit and wonderful comments. Hope all is well on your end. All the ebst..

Al

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Top 20 Poster
OP Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Stoney..

Good to "meet" ya! Thanks for stopping in and for the great comments...we really appreciate it!

Al & Di

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Top 20 Poster
OP Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Howdy Max...

First, thank you for the kind visit and encouraging comments. We really do appreciate it so much!

Now, to answer your questions:

1. We are using Band In A Box 2011.5 with RealTracks
2. The only Midi tracks are the bass line and the elctric piano...everything else is live musicians, including me (I'm still pretty much alive, even at my age!)

Thanks again for the kind comments...we love the feedback! All the best...

Al and Di

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 690
R
Top 500 Poster
Offline
Top 500 Poster
R
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 690
Sounds good to me David. I bet you are having fun with it while learning! Good job.

Ricky

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Top 20 Poster
OP Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Hi Ricky...

Thank youo so much for those kind words. Glad you enjoyed the song.

And yep...having one heck of a good time playing around with the program...learning a little something new almost everyday!

Thanks again for the visit and the kind words...all the best...

Al & Di

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,697
Top 50 Poster
Offline
Top 50 Poster
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,697
Al and Di,

You both did a wonderful job with this great example of a too seldom heard genre. Lyric and music are a perfect marriage...IMO.

Love the sax.....that places us in the "club"....right in the front row.

That FAKE OR GLITZY line? Well, this is how I hear it

THE LOVE WE SHARE IS NEVER FAKE OR GLITZY

But wow, Al....you are doing great already with this new program....your voc delivery is working well for this lyric....I loved it and I will go and listen again. Keep up the great progress with the BIAB......way over MY head, for sure...lol.

Jan

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,616
Top 200 Poster
Offline
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,616
On my 3rd listen.
Your enthusiasm for the music is inspiring.
Always looking to improve and to explore new things.
The vocals are Lou Rawls , Barry White cool and I can only imagine them getting better, with each new track with the new software.
The music by the way is really nice.

The lyrics are solid for the most part.
You can remove some words as Calvin suggested to smooth out the flow, a bit.
But all in all... you have a smoker of a song here.

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,003
Likes: 1
Top 20 Poster
Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,003
Likes: 1
AL and Di--

YEAH, YOU'VE FOUND AWAY--This SONG has a CLASS AA arrangement--I listened several times and have a good feeling after I turned the sound off--COULD BE A HIT ON YOUR ALBUM!

Mackie

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Top 20 Poster
OP Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Hi Jan...

Thanks so much for the listen and comments. And yeah, we kinda liked that alto sax, too! We're considering changing that line you and Calvin mentioned. Thanks for the thought! Hugs...

Al & Di

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Top 20 Poster
OP Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Nelson...

Thanks for your time to listen...at least 3times...wow...I'm humbled!!!! Thank you much! A smoker...well, Diana and I like hearing that! Again, thank you for your times to listen and for your thoughts...we both really appreciate that. Will be by see what you've posted recently and leave some thoughts...

Al & Di

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Top 20 Poster
OP Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,649
Mackie...

You are much too kind...but we can deal with it! Thanks so much!!! We'd love to have a hit! Gonna send you a PM a little later this evening...

Al & Di


Link Copied to Clipboard
Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Newest Members
chriscastle, yasir252, cathennashira, Samwise, HappySousa
21,470 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums117
Topics125,717
Posts1,160,950
Members21,470
Most Online37,523
Jan 25th, 2020
Just Plain Quotes
"If one man can do it, any man can do it. It is true. But the real question is, if one man did it, are you willing to do what it takes to do it as well?" –Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
warriorgirl (2024)
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5