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Joined: Oct 2007
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Had just a quick question for my friends here at Jpf . If a songwriter ends up co writing with an artist that puts out an album with four of the writers songs on it and it goes for sale both digitally and hard copied does that writer that isn't the artist performing the songs get anything from it?
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Brandon,
All cowriters should be paid. You are paid by Mechanicals (legal downloads, CD sales) and Performances (mainstream radio and television performances) there are also uses in film on certain songs. There are also ringtones, etc. Other revenue streams.
But the deal is it is 9 cents per copy sold, and the writers and the publishers have to split that equally. So it takes a large SINGLE with widespread airplay and sales to really recieve much in the way of money. Most songs that are not singles don't make much money at all.
You are not paid for videos, or You tube, that is considered promotion. Due to the high costs of releasing product, most money is usually eaten up long before anyone sees much money. Recorded songs have gone more to the elements of "free" music and are considered promotion for the artist. Why more and more artists are writing their own material and less and less opportunities for anyone who is not included in the artist's inner circle.
You might want to contact a representative of the Performance Writers Organization you belong to (ASCAP, BMI, SESAC) for further clarification.
MAB
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Well, If a writer gives an Artist a Co-writing Credit there needs to be a Co-writing Agreement in place to protect all participants rights. If you ever get anything big in the works you might need to get an Attorney to Represent you as it can get complicated.
If you Co-write Original songs with an Artist you should also get a Co-writing agreement in place. All rights can be negoiated. There will most likly be a Publisher involved so an Attorney may be a must if you see things you don't understand in an agreement.
Ray E. Strode
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Thanks MAB I was just curious. I know we have to pay back the investor first so we may not see anything. Our Producer talked to us about mechanical licensing and etc and I think he said each writer got somewhere around the ballpark of $90 for every 1000 copies sold. I just wasn't for sure when the writer was supposed to start getting paid. Someone had asked me and I didn't have the answer.
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That $91 is the total royalties for the song for the 1000 copies sold (9.1 cents per song per CD). That $91 is split between the publisher(s) and the writer(s) -- so if there is more than one writer, they would be splitting $45.50.
That for each song -- obviously if you have more than one cut, you are due royalties for each one.
But as Marc says, it takes a *lot* of sales for all that to add up to anything.
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I think that is actually if you are liscencing other people's songs. I don't think that if you are the artist/co-writer you are paid anything unless there are sales. Which is really where we are in music now.
Artists are trying to hard to get attention that much of their recordings are given away for promotion. The average artists sells between 500-1000 CD's. And those are dribbled out just a very few at a time.
Major record labels have always considered about 3000 CD's pure advertisement and those were not even acounted for. So many songs and CD's simply go nowhere. I have thousands around the house from artists that did "big release parties" and constant promotion, to sell much less than it cost to produce the CD.
It is the constant fight we are all in trying to monetize what we do. For me, I would be grateful to have those four songs on there and follow what happens with the career of the artist. Keep the relationships open and help him or her promote themselves as much as you can.
MAB
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Then if by some chance this persons songs was to hit the main stream and make a top ten or even my some miracle become a number one song is it still only the 9.1 cents per song sold? I've heard stories about it being more in cases like that. Are they just that stories?
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Brandon,
That is correct. Most songs now are written by three people. Usually the artist and two more experienced writers. Those splits also include the publishers, which are usually two. This is because of the difficulty of getting songs into the marketplace. A number one usually ends up paying about $22,5000 for a writer, if that.
There are many cases where a song goes to number one and due to draws (salaries) expenses and elements of a writer's career leading up to that hit, they end up making practically nothing.
It depends on widespread airplay, continuous profile by the artist, and how long something stays on the charts. A very differing scale. I have known writers that had a number three song that stayed on the charts for months, that made more than someone with a number one hit that zoomed up and fell off the charts quickly.
MAB MAB
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Brandon,
Forgot about this thread. I had meant to mention that the 9.1 cents royalty rate is mandated by Congress. We are the only small business that is regulated as to what we can charge. So no matter how many copies of anything you sold, you are still only allowed 9.1 cents per copy sold. With a majority of songs going to free downloads, you can see how hard it is to make any significant money at songwriting. MAB
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