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#900087 - 05/23/11 03:02 PM Nashville Number Charts thread  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Here in the Nashville studios, we use a system of charting songs for sessions. We use numbers instead of letters. Each number corresponds with the steps on the major scale. Do re mi becomes 1 2 3, just like Michael Jackson sang. smile Here's an example of this. It's a song I cowrote with two JPF members, Roger Sosnowski and Greg Brown. It's in the key of C, so 1 is C major, 4 is F major, G is 5 major and 2- is 2 minor. Unlike the number system of Bach's time, we assume a number is a major chord unless told otherwise. in C, 1 is one major, C- is one minor etc.

Check this out, play the link and read the chart and let me know if you have questions.
http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_7088949
[Linked Image]

All the Best,
Mike


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#900092 - 05/23/11 03:19 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Feb 2007
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Kevin Emmrich Offline
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Crozet, VA
Hey that was cool -- I was actually able to follow along!!!

1 --- chord with no underline hold for 4 beats

2- 5 --- Play the 2minor for 2 beats and 5 chord for 2 beats.

Diamond shape --- strum and let ring (a "hold")

****
1.) Under the 4/4 thing you have "To D" (in a box) -- what's that mean?

2.) What does "Recit" mean on the top of column 2?

3.) When you say up one step --are all the numbers based on the new key? (I suppose so, since you say 6 is now the new 5 -- but just checking.)

Thanks,

Kevin


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @ FAWM 2017)
#900096 - 05/23/11 03:24 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


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Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Good work, Kevin. The "to D" means it's not going to stay in the key of C, it will move to D. "Recit" means that is the recitation in the song. Up one step means it will move up one step from C to D, I usually don't write the notes in case we change keys in the session (that's pretty common, we'll get a singer who learned a song in the original key, but might sound better in another once we hear them in the studio.) The 6 in C is A major, which is the 5 in D. Once you're up in a new key, yes, all the numbers match that key. Again, good work. Mike


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#900139 - 05/23/11 08:20 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Just for fun, the first person who posts a link to their song here, streaming audio only (soundclick, reverbnation etc.) I'll do a chart of it and post it, then we can talk about it. I'm pretty busy and will be going out of town for a while soon, so if the first one doesn't get posted quickly, it might take me some time to get to it.

Mike


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#900469 - 05/25/11 12:42 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,891
Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

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Heres one me and Glynda did Mike.

Hope its ok

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=8842898

God bless Roy and Helen


'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label

Our Personal Website
#900475 - 05/25/11 01:21 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Roy Cooper]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Here it is, Roy. I'm off to a session. Any comments or questions I'll have some time tonight and tomorrow. If folks like this, and it gets a good response, I might do some more.

[Linked Image]


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#900487 - 05/25/11 02:04 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,891
Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

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So Mike, if someone who knew the numbers system, read this chart that you MADE SO QUICKLY, and redone it, how close to the original music would they be, if they never heard it.

Just curious.

Also Mike, if you kindly could.

That song is one a a two song set that we wrote.

I would love to compare the two charts to see how close they are, chart wise.

Not that I understand them lol. For me they are pictures that tell a story.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=8992304

God Bless Roy and Helen

Last edited by Roy Cooper; 05/25/11 02:17 PM.

'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label

Our Personal Website
#900496 - 05/25/11 03:00 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Kevin Emmrich Offline
Kevin Emmrich  Offline


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Crozet, VA
Originally Posted by Roy Cooper
So Mike, if someone who knew the numbers system, read this chart that you MADE SO QUICKLY, and redone it, how close to the original music would they be, if they never heard it.


If they guessed the tempo right, it would come pretty close. Since it is counted off in 4/4, they would play all the changes in time. Since it is in Db, I would capo at the 1st fret and play in the "C" position.

OK, did a quick recording of the intro and 1st verse -- I was at 50% tempo. By the time I counted off 4 bars, the verse 1 had started. So I could re-do it twice as fast and probably sound OK. Of course, my guitar part would change if all those other instruments were playing.

Mike I see that 5 is that just a G7 (in C)?
................7


Is this 4/4 or being played at 2/4?


Kevin


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @ FAWM 2017)
#900568 - 05/25/11 10:05 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


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Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Roy, yeah, I'm pretty fast at charts smile

Yes, it would sound similar, especially if I put in metronome markings and indicated what kind of groove it was. I'll try to do your other song later this evening, please post a link to it so folks can easily read along.

Kevin. I made a mistake that I saw after taking the chart out of the scanner. It is in Bb, not Db. I wrote it wrong. But the numbers are dead on. I wrote it in a fast 4/4, you could call it 2/4. I write a measure for every time the bass, in a two beat bass groove, plays two beats. That five over a seven is just that: it is a five chord with a seven in the bass. If you're in Bb, the five is an F major with an A in the bass. The bass walks up from Gminor (6-) to A under an F major, to Bbmaj. Notice the bass plays 6 7 1. La Ti Do.

The session today was a Christmas album for a singer/songwriter from North Dakota. We recorded his regular album yesterday. 22 songs total in two days. He does pretty well, he sold 1,600 cds in the last seven months. He sells them at fairs, conventions, dances, rodeos etc. We read charts like these, it takes about a half hour a song to get the basic tracks.

All the Best,
Mike


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#900571 - 05/25/11 10:16 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Sep 2009
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Roy Cooper Online content
Roy Cooper  Online Content

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Thanks Mike you are a real gentleman.

22 songs in two days. Is that a record.

Here is the link.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=8992304

God Bless Roy and Helen


'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'

Our Record Label

Our Personal Website
#900677 - 05/26/11 12:44 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Roy Cooper]  
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Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Here it is Roy:

[Linked Image]

This is pretty much the way I'd chart for a session, maybe not even include the arrangement of what plays where, if it was the kind of session where the players would figure that out at the studio. If I'm producing, I usually add that in, but am open for ideas. We rarely add the key of the song until we know what key the session singer wants.

If this was going to be for a tv or radio show, all of that would be added in, plus I'd have the key, the metronome time, the groove ( straight eights, country ) and maybe even an example of an existing song that is similar. Also, for a radio show, it there are signature musical parts I would write those out. If I'm writing charts for radio, tv, fair dates, dances, etc. to hit songs that most of the guys "kind of" know, I won't add much more info than the numbers.

When I write charts, I just put on the headphones and write. Most songs, I write them as fast as the song goes by. I don't use an instrument to check chords unless I'm stuck. (I don't get stuck too often...not bragging, I've just done this a long time and I'm OLD. smile )

Folks, if any of you like this beside just Roy and Kevin, let me know, post here and I'll continue. If enough folks like this, I'll do more charts too, as time permits.

All the Best,
Mike


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#900681 - 05/26/11 12:59 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
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Scott Campbell Offline
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Lakeland, FL, USA
Hi Mike:

I've been reading this thread with interest. It's an intriguing system. This may have been covered in a different thread but what are its advantages? It strikes me that one might be that it's easier to transpose on the fly but that might not be true for a pro...

Anyway, if you are willing to do more, I'd love to see one for one of my songs. Besides just being a cool thing to have, it occurs to me that it might be easier to study the system on a song I already play. Here's a link if you have time:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=377550&songID=10095634

And if you do happen to do a chart for this song, could you also sign it? smile

Thanks,
Scott

#900687 - 05/26/11 01:24 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Scott Campbell]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
[Linked Image]

Here you go, Scott. I write things like this in 6/8 instead of 12/8 because the changes are mostly 6/8 and I don't have to write split bars all the way through. It makes it easier to read. The easier it is to read, the more the musicians can focus on feel...and it's ALL about feel.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#900722 - 05/26/11 02:28 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,814
Scott Campbell Offline
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Posts: 11,814
Lakeland, FL, USA
Thanks so much Mike - much appreciated!

Off to study it now smile

Scott

#900737 - 05/26/11 03:06 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Scott Campbell]  
Joined: Feb 2007
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Kevin Emmrich Offline
Kevin Emmrich  Offline


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Crozet, VA
Hey Mike,

What's happening there in measure 2 of the chorus where you have the 1 followed by a 45 degree arrow? Is that a slide up into the next chord? Also in chorus 1, 3 & 4 you have that underlined giving 2 beats to the 1 and 2 beats to the arrow (or since it is 6/8, a triplet?). In chorus #2 you leave the underline out.

Kevin


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @ FAWM 2017)
#900746 - 05/26/11 03:46 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Hey Kevin. In the sixteenth bar of the verse, there will be a walk up, but it is specific. The chord is a one chord, but the bass notes walk up 1 3 5 to the 6 note which is in the bass of the four chord. I repeat that later and use an arrow to denote the walk up (arrows usually mean walk up, if we have a glissando (slid) most folks write a curved line up or down to or from a number. The underline with an arrow is a redundancy, once a pattern is established, I usually leave out redundancies. I wrote this chart out real time and didn't make any changes, I would leave it like this for a session or live show unless it needed more detail.

You can read a dozen different number charts and find a dozen different systems, but after reading them for a while, it's no problem. Some folks underline a split bar, some put a box around it, some put it in parenthesis, some just put a slash between the numbers (which, to me, can be confused with having a chord with a specific bass note...for that I just write one note over another in roughly the space where one note would be. I'll dig out someone else's charting of a song and show some differences.

Mike


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#900747 - 05/26/11 03:56 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Feb 2007
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Kevin Emmrich Offline
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Posts: 10,529
Crozet, VA
If you are up to one more, how 'bout "Thunderbird Motel Duet" here: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=1144009&songID=10379397

Thanks,

Kevin


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @ FAWM 2017)
#900748 - 05/26/11 04:01 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
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Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


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Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Here is one for Live at Libby's radio show:

[Linked Image]

Here is one from a live radio broadcast from the "Little River Days" in Hopkinsville, Ky.

[Linked Image]

These are typical of what you would get for a session, a live show, a casino touring act, a major artist...anything from the pro music scene here in Nashville.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#900752 - 05/26/11 04:08 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
The Libby's chart reads across the page. The notes up on the top left and right are decoration. Most of the pro players here read music to at least some degree. The numbers above the main number are guitar licks, if they are called "gang licks" that means all the lead instrument will play the lick together. The numbers below the main numbers are bass runs, they'll be played by the bass player and maybe the left hand of the piano or a tic-tac guitar part.

The other chart shows boxes, parentheses and slashes for split bars. It also uses musical notes to give rhythm patterns.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#900754 - 05/26/11 04:10 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Kevin, I'll try to get to yours and others when I get back from our Illinois gig early next week. I hope there are more than three folks here interested. Anyone else, even if you don't want to comment or want me to write a chart, are you interested in all this?

Mike


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#900760 - 05/26/11 04:47 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
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niteshift Offline
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niteshift  Offline
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Sydney, Australia
Hey Mike,

I'm interested. Glad to see you can play a 145. wink

Seriously, it's not about what key you are in, it's about the relationship between and from the root note.

Guitaists do this easily, they simply move up a fret. Piano players find it more difficult, as the fingering totally changes.

But that's cos we're piano players..... and real musicians... *ducks and runs for cover *....

cheers, niteshift


#900761 - 05/26/11 04:48 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Jul 2005
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Scott Campbell Offline
Scott Campbell  Offline

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Lakeland, FL, USA
Thanks for asking those questions, Kevin - and answering them, Mike. I'm going to try playing along with some of the others.

Scott

#900851 - 05/27/11 04:02 AM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Scott Campbell]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Scott, I never did answer your question, "What are its (Nashville Number System) advantages?"

In no particular order of importance:

You can transpose keys just by writing them in at the top.

Almost any song can fit on one page.

You can see the structure of a song. You start to see common patterns in phrasing.

Use it for a while and you start to have a working understanding of music theory.

As Nite said, it's all about relationships (wait a minute, that's what MAB says too LOL.). The relationship of notes in a key can be seen expressed as numbers.

It helps you learn your keys.

You don't need staff paper.

##############################3

Disadvantages?

It's harder to write a melody with it than it is with standard notation.

Players who can't improvise are screwed.

You don't get chord voicings, only what might be in the bass.

You can't charge as much writing these as opposed to transcribing in standard notation.

You've got to really know your keys.

It gets sneered at by Nashbashers.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#901422 - 05/30/11 03:06 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Here's Kevin's "Thunderbird Motel"
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10379397

I like this song, Kevin. It's got some cool changes, especially in the transitional phrases.

[Linked Image]


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#901426 - 05/30/11 03:10 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Sorry I misspelled you name, Kevin. Spell check was turned off. smile


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#901428 - 05/30/11 03:17 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
There once was a German named Emmrich,
Whose last name nearly rhymed lymeric,
His good friend named Rick,
Said no two "e's" the trick,
Kevin replied, "Das ist immer, Rick!"


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#901458 - 05/30/11 07:33 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,529
Kevin Emmrich Offline
Kevin Emmrich  Offline


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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,529
Crozet, VA
Thanks Mike! I was going to try and tackle it myself, but I am glad I didn't -- it looks tough!!

I "discovered" the flatted 7th chord last summer when I co-wrote Girlfriend for the Weekend MP3 ( here's the chart: Girlfriend for the Weekend -- CHART) with Lance Carpenter and Bob Paterno in nashville (hey, I was in the room!). After that, I wrote at least 4 songs that had that flatted 7th chord in the progression somehow. I tend to drive things into the ground when I learn something new and exciting.

Thanks again -- I'll try and pay along with it.

Kevin

Last edited by Kevin Emmrich; 05/30/11 08:15 PM.

"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @ FAWM 2017)
#901551 - 05/31/11 02:23 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
You're welcome, Kevin.

Well, how about the rest of you folks? Any questions? Comments? Another song for me to chart?


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#901555 - 05/31/11 02:40 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Some skills you need to read or write these things.

First, you need to understand what a key is. In current music, a key is Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti Do. In C, that is: CDEFGABC. Then, you need to know the keys for the songs you are reading or writing.

Her is a good link to learn basic scale and key theory:
http://library.thinkquest.org/15413/theory/intervals.htm

Here's my memory trick for remembering the sharp keys:
http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthr...r&topic=0&Search=true#Post388883


Here's my memory trick for remembering the flat keys:
http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthr...r&topic=0&Search=true#Post388883


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#901557 - 05/31/11 02:46 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,323
niteshift Offline
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niteshift  Offline
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Posts: 5,323
Sydney, Australia
Just a comment Mike....

I'm trying to think back when I first came across the number system, and for me it was about the mid to late eighties.

A guirtarist who I worked with was also a very good session muso. Couldn't read music and played by ear, but would notate in numbers. That was in New Zealand. And he got all the gigs too.

So I guess it's been around for a long time. Who needs to read music properly if you know the reationship between notation ?

As you point out, you also need to improvise well and wing it occasionally, but it makes for a better overall player I think.

cheers, niteshift

#901565 - 05/31/11 03:01 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Nite, in Bach's time, they used what was called "figured bass" to improvise the keyboard parts along with the orchestra. It was numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figured_bass


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#901570 - 05/31/11 03:16 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Dec 2006
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niteshift Offline
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niteshift  Offline
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Posts: 5,323
Sydney, Australia
Ah ! I knew Dunbar was old ! ( very old as it happens )

Twice now, I have sent Mr Mike music which required a bass line. Being a chap of the "good ears" school, I just gave him the key, and let him figure it out. ( no charts ) And it was all returned spot on. ( Tams song "Pink Champagne" was especially difficult especially in the transitions, but Mike nailed it )

I didn't know he was just reverting to the year 1650.

Hooray ! I'm a classical composer. I don't write bass lines. smile

cheers, niteshift

Last edited by niteshift; 05/31/11 03:20 PM.
#901653 - 06/01/11 12:01 AM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Apr 2006
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ben willis Offline
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ben willis  Offline
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Posts: 6,065
Ft. Myers, FL. USA
Thanks for the explanation Mike. I remember trying to find this info on the net some time ago but the sites that I found were charging money to teach the system. I'd like to start learning with a familiar song (if you could), so here's a link to "Ceder And Knotty Pine" in D, a bluegrass song that I wrote last year. Scott Campbell is singing harmony and playing harp.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=9331485

#901679 - 06/01/11 03:33 AM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: ben willis]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Here you go, Ben, let me know if you have any questions.

[Linked Image]


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#901692 - 06/01/11 07:32 AM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 29,275
"Tampa Stan" Good (D) Offline
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"Tampa Stan" Good (D)  Offline
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Posts: 29,275
Tampa, Florida since 1973
Hi Mike!

Consider me Interested Guy #4, tho you know I know nada about Notation..heh! First CD I ever recorded was in Branson...Tommy Rials (Mickey Gilley's Pianoman) was Session Master...& that was first time I saw Nashville Numbers in-action. I'd do an acapella..he'd write the Charts..& on with the Recording..(5 piece band). Cut 10 Songs in 3 days..with NO rehearsals..(Saved a Bundle~!) (Got a 5-star Review..from Muse's Muse Ben Ohmart..on it, too.)

Still got the Charts on Our Co-...It'd look interesting..tho...I'm not exactly among the Educated as to what it's saying. (Got a Math Professor Uncle in Michigan..but none of his Brilliant DNA trickled down to my side of the Family Tree.)

Thanks for sharing..this does look Very Interesting, Amigo!~

Best Wishes/Good Luck at The Gig,
Stan

#901751 - 06/01/11 04:05 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: "Tampa Stan" Good (D)]  
Joined: Apr 2006
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ben willis Offline
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ben willis  Offline
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Posts: 6,065
Ft. Myers, FL. USA
Thanks Mike. Got it on file. I'll study it for a while then start tackling the others that you posted. I like the fact that you can use most any instrument for the same chart.

I do have a question though. What's the advantage of labeling a chord as a number as opposed to just writing the chord its self on the chart? Seeing the chord on a chart registers between my eyes and brain faster than seeing a number and having to transpose it into a chord. In digital terms it's called latency. I guess it could apply to the brain too.

#901801 - 06/01/11 09:33 PM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: ben willis]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Ben, the advantages to using numbers as opposed letters include, in no particular order:

Seeing the relationship between the chords, which affects your choices of things to play.

Being able to transpose instruments that don't use capos.

Being able to talk to the sax player, the piano player and the guitar player with the capo at the session without having to say things three times.

Being able to try the same song in different keys for a singer.

Being able to use the same chart for cutting the male and female version.

I think in numbers whether I'm playing guitar, bass, keyboard, mandolin or when singing. I can sing most melodies using numbers just as fast as I can using the words. I know there's a half step between three and four and between seven and one. Also, it makes seventh, ninth, eleventh and thirteenth chords make perfect sense. It means right here, in my mind's ear, I can hear a minor seven flat five or an add nine or a minor/maj7. I couldn't do any of this after college or after years of teaching music theory, but I can after years of reading and writing charts.





You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#902705 - 06/08/11 01:27 AM Re: Nashville Number Charts thread [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,342
Bob Cushing Offline
Bob Cushing  Offline

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Posts: 4,342
cincinnati oh usa
This is why I hire session musicians...So I don't have to deal with this stuff! [lol}


bc

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