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#892525 - 04/15/11 06:22 AM Re: Blaze Trak in the Wall Street Journal [Re: Mike Caro Substudio]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,115
Brian Austin Whitney Online content
Brian Austin Whitney  Online Content

Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,115
Indianapolis, IN USA
I'm not the only one doing stuff regularly to help the community for free Mike, that's the point of my comment. I work with all sorts of people who volunteer their time to help JPF out for FREE. So you entire point falls flat. If not to 10's of thousands of professional industry people's volunteer hours each year on the awards (not to mention the overall 100's of thousands of hours donated by artists, writers and various people involved with music) our awards couldn't happen. ALL of that is donated time by people who make money in the industry who charge us nothing to help our community. Our mentors charge nothing. In the thousands of JPF shows (except the awards shows) we've only paid a venue 1 time to use their venue and sound system and people and that was only due to a mistake made by our local coordinator there. Our Chapter coordinators are also unpaid. Mentors do all sorts of things for free and few of them even provide services for sale they can advertise and when they do, they don't run or get ads in our newsletter like our sponsors, only a line when they write an article about what they do. I can go on and on. And that's just JPF. So please don't make comments when you have no idea what you are talking about. JPF isn't the only entity that gets big time help from volunteers. There's tremendous numbers of them out there doing what they can to help.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@gmail.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#892526 - 04/15/11 06:26 AM Re: Blaze Trak in the Wall Street Journal [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,115
Brian Austin Whitney Online content
Brian Austin Whitney  Online Content

Top 10 Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,115
Indianapolis, IN USA
Ott,

Seriously? What third rail? Your comment is silly. If I am going to put my reputation on the line and the reputation of the organization I created and run, I think I'll be the one choosing who is involved. Now, if you'd like to share your experiences as well, go for it. I haven't stopped anyone from chiming in nor endorsing whoever they want. Put your name behind anyone you want and base it on whatever terms you please. I'll do the same thank you very much.

Do you ever think before you post such ridiculous statements? I mean seriously?

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@gmail.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

[Linked Image]
#892527 - 04/15/11 06:55 AM Re: Blaze Trak in the Wall Street Journal [Re: Mike Caro Substudio]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 29,275
"Tampa Stan" Good (D) Offline
Top 10 Poster
"Tampa Stan" Good (D)  Offline
Top 10 Poster

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 29,275
Tampa, Florida since 1973
Waal, I've waited 5 Pages-Worth before adding My Pair of Pennies.

"You Get What You've Paid-For" seems a fair statement to make on Much of Life's Opportunities.

Blazetrak seems to be a legit "Opportunity" to get SOME attention-paid by Your Choice of Higher-Ups..and, of course, you get that Video-to-Treasure...back. NO Guarantee your material WILL go on to Bigger & Better Things..but that's Life..& the Way It Is with ANY of the "Services" that are now out-there.

TAXI cost more than the $75 or so Donna's sending BT for her First Submission..but..my guess IS..for Donna to get MORE out of Blazetrak she'll end up spending close-to..or beyond..the $300 I think TAXI Costs Annually. TAXI offers their annual "Road Rally" which..IF you're seeking Networking Opportunities, is a "Don't Miss" (though you'll have to shoot your own video..heh!)

And factor-in "Airfare to L.A." and "Hotel Accomodations."

Ditto for Brian's JPF Awards Show..(Tho I think the last one was in NashCity/Sorry I couldn't attend, but I've been rather impecunious the last 3 years.)

Considering how Expensive it HAS become to turn out "Finished Demos" I don't think Blazetrak's a Bad Idea IF you've Got The Goods. Mike & Donna & Kevin DO. (Greg & Big Jimmie, too..heh!)

Me? IF I ever get $75 "Ahead"..it's off to a chum's Studio to record a few more Demos..& maybe THEN I'd give BT a try. (I keep getting Better & Better Rejections..from Better & Better People Higher-Up...for FREE..so-far~!)

But..IF BT gets your "foot in the door" somewhere for a mere $75, CONGRATS..It Worked for YOU..DO Tell Us MORE.

(I'll remain a tad-skeptical of comments like Greg's "They were impressed by me"..but any "I got 2 of my songs Signed & Recorded-BY" stories..yep...sure wanna hear some!)

Good Luck, Caveat Emptor, & Best Wishes to all,
Stan

#892529 - 04/15/11 07:16 AM Re: Blaze Trak in the Wall Street Journal [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,997
Mike Caro Substudio Offline
Mike Caro Substudio  Offline

Top 20 Poster

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,997
NY
Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
I'm not the only one doing stuff regularly to help the community for free Mike, that's the point of my comment. I work with all sorts of people who volunteer their time to help JPF out for FREE. So you entire point falls flat. If not to 10's of thousands of professional industry people's volunteer hours each year on the awards (not to mention the overall 100's of thousands of hours donated by artists, writers and various people involved with music) our awards couldn't happen. ALL of that is donated time by people who make money in the industry who charge us nothing to help our community. Our mentors charge nothing. In the thousands of JPF shows (except the awards shows) we've only paid a venue 1 time to use their venue and sound system and people and that was only due to a mistake made by our local coordinator there. Our Chapter coordinators are also unpaid. Mentors do all sorts of things for free and few of them even provide services for sale they can advertise and when they do, they don't run or get ads in our newsletter like our sponsors, only a line when they write an article about what they do. I can go on and on. And that's just JPF. So please don't make comments when you have no idea what you are talking about. JPF isn't the only entity that gets big time help from volunteers. There's tremendous numbers of them out there doing what they can to help.

Brian


Wow! holy smokes I feel like I'm in a Twilight Zone episode..

I have no clue what your talking about Brian, in my world I paid you a 100% TOTAL compliment. Meaning exactly that you do alot for a lot of people, a lot of work for FREE!

?


Thanks!
Peace Mike
Sub

Music & Video's & Photo's
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=482602

Demo/Production & Music Services
http://www.substudiomusic.com







#892530 - 04/15/11 07:53 AM Re: Blaze Trak in the Wall Street Journal [Re: Mike Caro Substudio]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
BIG JIM MERRILEES  Offline

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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Edinburgh, Scotland. UK
I think the exercise Brian suggests is pretty pointless and am puzzled as to why he suggests it....even if Blazetrak go for his proposition it proves very little other than confirming Blazetrak do exactly what they say they do. They give feedback from industry pros for a fee....and a very large fee at that. It is simply a cash cow aimed at exploiting the egos of thousands of artists and songwriters....people who generally have well above average egos in the first place. How can it fail?
This whole business model is based on getting many thousands on an ego trip submitting and the income generated purely from the entrance money is potentially staggering. As Brian pointed out it represents little value to folk who's stuff is not ready or is not up to required standards. That will probably be just about everyone who submits.
So sending a few handpicked artists material even as freebies will only prove that the service they offer is as described....not that this biz model is ethical or appropriate for the vast majority of people who would consider using use Blazetrak.
If anything the Brian Whitney/JPF seal of approval will only encourage more hopefuls and hopeless to waste their money on this expensive ego trip in return for short critiques/reviews or whatever they want to call them. This represents little value for the money spent.

The chance to be heard by a top pro is a huge carrot and many delusional people will waste money and go for it even if the price was doubled. That is my whole ethical concern. I have no doubt that Blazetrak do everything they say they do...that is clearly not my issue.
Perhaps a look at the profit accounts and facts and figures of how many people actually gained finacially from this introduction to the top people would prove more fruitful into establishing whether or not this is a valuable worthwhile service.

#892558 - 04/15/11 10:55 AM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,750
Kevin Emmrich Online content
Kevin Emmrich  Online Content


Top 10 Poster

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,750
Crozet, VA
Interesting idea, Brian. I am not sure how it would prove or disprove the validity of the BlazeTrak model, though. The only way to judge BlazeTrak is to see "if they do what they say they do". After that, it is mostly personal opinions about their business model.

Once the connection is made and a video tape response is received, the chance of something happening has nothing to do with BlazeTrak. ... and it might be a year or two (or more) before any results become concrete. The only thing BlazeTrak can hope is that the user does more submissions and tells their friends about it.

In any case, the thread has been a good one and I think BlazeTrak, as people, have held up well enough. It has had enough twists and turns, misunderstandings and hurt feelings to last us a while.

Kevin


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#892559 - 04/15/11 11:07 AM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 883
Petra Offline
Serious Contributor
Petra  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 883
Ontario, Canada
Kevin,

You make sense of all of this. Just wait and see if they fullfill their promise. So, those who have used it, hopefully will share their experinece, I am sure they will.

Petra

All kinds of avenues to scratch your way to the top; I remember when Alan Jackson met Glen Campbell at an Airport and handed his tape of his songs. This is the way he got his break.

Also, another story, though the names have eluded me; a songwriter parachuted from a plane on to the property of a singer, landed on his property to give his tape of his songs. The singer saw this from his porch, he was cool about. End results don't know if he got anywhere with the songs.

Petra


Invasion of Aliens!!!
#892560 - 04/15/11 11:16 AM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Petra]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 508
Dan Tindall Offline
Top 500 Poster
Dan Tindall  Offline
Top 500 Poster

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 508
Ireland
This whole thread certainly reveals a lot about the range of issues that exist around independent musicians and their attempts to get somewhere with their ambitions. The fact that something like Blaze Trak exists tells us how desperate people can be to make that vital connection to the right person in the right place on the right day, presumably with the moon in the correct quarter.

The simple fact is that so few real opportunuties exist that a service offered to anybody who can pay is a waste of money - even if a few people get something from it, all that proves is that talent and hard work pay off, not that Blaze Trak have anything to offer.

It will be interesting to see if they respond to Brian's suggestion (although, I'm not sure what it would prove) - I still very much doubt it would convince someone like to use the service offered, not because I would doubt Brian's judgement (from what I have read at JPF over the years, that is not open to question) but just because the whole idea as outlined by Blaze Trak just sounds like every other scam out there.

Dan smile

#892583 - 04/15/11 12:29 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Petra]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 29,275
"Tampa Stan" Good (D) Offline
Top 10 Poster
"Tampa Stan" Good (D)  Offline
Top 10 Poster

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 29,275
Tampa, Florida since 1973
HI Again, Mz P!

It was Kris Kristofferson who piloted a HELICOPTER into Johnny Cash's Yard..to make his Pitch. (He'd actually been tryin' for 2 years already to get a cut...) AND..It worked..JC took him seriously after that! (KK had spent some time in the Army before headin' down to Nashville..& had been to Army Jump School, Rangers, & Flight School...so the Helicopter Thing was easy for him to do.)

Legend has it that Paul Williams got HIS break when he cornered Barbara Streisand in a bathroom & made her hear a few Cassettes.

Hey, "Whatever-Works"...(& I get a big kick outta all those "Higher-Ups" who invented the term "Gherming"...when THEY mostly got THEIR breaks..by doing Exactly-That.)

Back to Da Boards...& Best Wishes,
Stan

#892616 - 04/15/11 01:41 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: "Tampa Stan" Good (D)]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 883
Petra Offline
Serious Contributor
Petra  Offline
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Ontario, Canada
Hey, Stan

Well, thank you, I forgot who it was, KK. Paul Williams...love him, never knew how he got his break, though haven't heard anything about him for years. BS, she is a perfectionist! What a Voice to die for.

I find this stuff interesting, how the big shots/higher ups got started. cool

Petra

Last edited by Petra; 04/15/11 01:42 PM.

Invasion of Aliens!!!
#892620 - 04/15/11 01:56 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Petra]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,579
John Lawrence Schick Offline
Top 20 Poster
John Lawrence Schick  Offline
Top 20 Poster

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,579
PA
Originally Posted by Petra
Hey, Stan

Well, thank you, I forgot who it was, KK. Paul Williams...love him, never knew how he got his break, though haven't heard anything about him for years. BS, she is a perfectionist! What a Voice to die for.

I find this stuff interesting, how the big shots/higher ups got started. cool

Petra


Paul Williams is ASCAP's President and Chairman if you didn't know Petra.

John smile

#892631 - 04/15/11 03:32 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 70
Blazetrak Offline
Serious Contributor
Blazetrak  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 70
First and foremost, I just want to say thank you to this whole community for having an open dialogue about Blazetrak. All of your comments, both positive and negative will help us tremendously to improve our product and hopefully provide better services for you.

Brian,

I appreciate your offer, but I will decline. Here is why:

#1. Music is 100% purely subjective. Who you think is the best has no bearing on what I think, or what any of our pros think (even with your massive music awards program endorsement). All great music is not commercially viable, and vice versa, some bad music is. With that being said, who you hand pick could really mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. (and i say this with the utmost respect to you and your accomplishments).

#2. Our goal is not success stories and that proves nothing in regards to our model. Yes we love success stories and we want them to happen as often as possible, but we don't offer that. We offer an opportunity to present yourself to people you admire, respect, and/or would like to work with (or you just really want their opinion or advice). Hopefully you present something to them that will move them in such a way that they want to continue to interact with you outside of Blazetrak). This is our value proposition. You either think that is worth paying for or not. If you don't, then there is no need to use our service.

#3 We don't need your endorsement for success stories. Any success story that happens on our site is an endorsement in itself. We don't need you, or anyone else to validate it. When someone makes a submission on our site, then finds themselves in the studio with the same exact person they submitted to a few weeks later, all because of Blazetrak, it is already undeniable. We were the catalyst that made it happen and that is the fact. Maybe they make a hit record and make millions of dollars, maybe they show up at the studio and completely choke, leave and never hear from the person again. That part of the equation does not involve Blazetrak. You used our service to get in the door, now its your job to STAY in the room.

#4 People from your membership have already used our service and will continue to do so (while paying our fees) if they feel it can help THEM with or without your blessing, and I am sure they will come back and report their findings anyway. You run a great organization and I commend you on it, but at the end of the day, people will make their own decisions on what is best for them, and whether something can be of use to them, regardless of what anyone else says or thinks. I am willing to bet on that side of the human character.

#5 I am wondering if you asked Taxi, or any other companies you endorse to give you a few freebies to prove themselves. Doing due diligence to learn more about a company or organization is one thing, but to ask for a handout so to speak and dangle your 50k members as a carrot just seemed a little off to me. But hey, this is just how my crazy mind works. smile

Again, I have the utmost respect for you and what you have built here at JPF. My intent for coming here was not to win you over so you could endorse us to your membership. I came here to tell you and your membership our story, and be completely transparent in regards to how we operate and what we offer, then hope that you would find it useful. I feel like I have accomplished my goal.

Ron Harrison
Partner/Co-Founder
Blazetrak
www.blazetrak.com

#892632 - 04/15/11 03:40 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Blazetrak]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
BIG JIM MERRILEES  Offline

Top 20 Poster

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Edinburgh, Scotland. UK
Well that was quite clear.... they offer nothing but an introduction to a top pro......for a huge fee....
That is totally unethical IMO and my view of Blazetrak has not changed one bit.
It is like paying to jump the queue or paying to meet someone and get an autograph....totally wrong and not in the spirit top pros should operate.
Well Ron Kudos for being transparant...I can see right through you and you scheme. It sucks.

"#5 I am wondering if you asked Taxi, or any other companies you endorse to give you a few freebies to prove themselves. Doing due diligence to learn more about a company or organization is one thing, but to ask for a handout so to speak and dangle your 50k members as a carrot just seemed a little off to me. But hey, this is just how my crazy mind works."

Yet you do not think that dangling the carrot of a connection with a top pro for cash is not "a little off" that IMO is double standards.
For the record I was not keen on Brian's proposal.....but he maybe made it as a tester in the knowledge that he knew you would never agree to it. I hate it when people think only in cash terms and forget about being fair and honest and ethical.

#892634 - 04/15/11 03:46 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 70
Blazetrak Offline
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Originally Posted by BIG JIM MERRILEES

Well Ron Kudos for being transparant...I can see right through you and you scheme. It sucks.


And I'm cool with that. On to the next.

#892635 - 04/15/11 03:50 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Blazetrak]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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I kinda thought you would be......no shame.

#892638 - 04/15/11 04:04 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Kevin Emmrich Online content
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Big Jim: I am having trouble wrapping my head around the "unethical" part. BlazeTrak does what they say they do -- offer personal pitches to an industry pro for $xxx. Now can some poor sap spend his life savings on this with no hope of success? Yes they can -- but "sick" people sit in front on the TV watching Home Shopping Network and buy all sorts of stuff they don't need (and can't afford). Does that make HSN unethical?

I don't care too much for the business model, but I don't know if it is unethical.

Kevin



"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#892651 - 04/15/11 04:36 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Bill Robinson Offline
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I just don't get you guys. Blaze Trak is offering a service. If you don't like the service don't use it.

There are so many ways people in the music business take advantage of Wannabe writers and artists it is almost laughable.
I am not going to name names of people or companies that are part of the overall picture but people here and on other sites use their services.
Somehow some people want to have verification that they are credible. That's a laugh. Credible at doing what? Taking your money? And that is exactly what they all do. TAKE YOUR MONEY.

I don't care if it is a highly respected successful songwriter or a Demo service. They all do the same thing. TAKE YOUR MONEY.
Are there success stories? Of course there are. Every once in a while someone gets a cut or makes a contact that gets them signed or just gets a gig as a result of these Experts taking their money. But we all know the chances are about as good as winning the lottery.
So you guys dumping on this company for doing the same thing that Demo Companies, Songwriter workshops, Songpluggers, Critique service, and every other "business" that is in the business of separating you from your money are just spinning your wheels.

Every one of these companies are in business to make money. The fact that some don't meet the standards some of you have set is irrelevent.
I am sure some truly care about what they are doing and do want to help just as some are in it JUST for the money. But in the end they all Take your Money.

I like to hunt. The hunting industry has all kinds of schemes to separate the hunter from his money. Better and bigger guns. Better baits and scents. Books and Videos to teach the latest methods to get that big Trophy Buck. They offer Seminars and Hunting Camps, all designed to make you a successful Hunter. The latest and greatest Camo Clothing. They even sell Camo underwear. The deer can't see the underwear. But every day some hunter walks into a sporting goods store and buys Camo underwear.
Why?
He believes if he has that camo underwear it will make him a better hunter. That he will get that Trophy Buck or even a State or World record. Getting a record Buck can make you a LOT of money.
In the end very few hunters ever succeed at anything more than an average deer that is just like every other average deer that has been harvested.

It's the same in every industry out there. The Music business is no different.

And there ain't a damn thing wrong with any of it. It is business and a person can spend their money on Demos, or songwriting critiques just as they can spend their money on hunting crap or fishing crap or any other endeavor they choose.


Bill
http://www.soundclick.com/billrobinson
http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Skype; bill.robinson12

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson didn't say it

http://voidnow.org/
http://www.americansworking.com/
#892657 - 04/15/11 05:26 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Bill Robinson]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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Kevin ... Unethical...here is a definition.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unethical
Work it out. I thought I made my point loud and clear.
So Bill just because there are loads of folk who use an unscrupulous business plan to take advantage of wannabes we should all turn a blind eye and accept it. Do you not think that wannabes who perhaps are not the best judge of what is legit and what is a scam or what is just a way to be parted with money should be protected and these scams exposed or at least the pros and cons of the way companies operate discussed so they can be more educated in their decision making capabilities.
Kevin a lot of hype and advertising is unethical....like the ones targeted at kids for overprice toys at xmas...now they know their parents cannot refuse them and peer pressure will get the sales so it is straight hype to make kids think something like a cheap plastic toy is something else. Two wrongs do not make a right. You cannot justifiy that a company is ethical because it operates along lines that a lot of companies operate which is inside the law. There are companies that offer loans at outrageous loan shark rates....legal yes.... unethical totally. There is something to be said for shutting down companies who operate within the law but in a totally UNethical manner. http://www.quickquid.co.uk/adw-quic...uid&gclid=CKfU3MSRn6gCFQoa4Qod3GvgHQ

Q What is the diff between illegal and unethical.....?
A. about five years.

That said we SHOULD expose bad business practice rather than patting them on the back as Bill maybe wants.

#892676 - 04/15/11 06:45 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Gregory Watton Offline
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Brian's experiment would have been an interesting one, but Ron does raise some valid points I have to say about music being subjective. Based on what what he said in his post, I can understand why he declined.

At the end of the day, those who want to use Blazetrak, will. Those who don't, won't.

I think this subject should come to a close. Everyone can debate until the sun no longer shines and it won't really go anywhere. Just let the matter rest.

Brian, perhaps you could lock the thread to prevent any future posts.

#892680 - 04/15/11 07:21 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Petra Offline
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Thanks John,

I didn't know what happened to him.

Petra


Invasion of Aliens!!!
#892682 - 04/15/11 07:34 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Gregory Watton]  
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Bill Robinson Offline
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Big Jim
I don't want anything to be done one way or another.
I don't think it is my place to decide if one business is ethical or not.
I think Demo companies that charge $1000.00 to demo a song that doesn't stand a chance in hell of ever getting cut is unethical but the consensus here is it is perfectly OK as long as they don't promise it will make you a star.
But there is an entire industry built around that model.
Bullshit.

I seem to recall you supporting that business plan.



Bill
http://www.soundclick.com/billrobinson
http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Skype; bill.robinson12

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson didn't say it

http://voidnow.org/
http://www.americansworking.com/
#892683 - 04/15/11 07:48 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Gregory Watton]  
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I agree that too much has been said already there is more than enough opinions to make it clear to people the reasons why they should or should not use Blazetrak.
Ron made a few interesting points and most of these points confirmed that he was more interested in making money than promoting or helping up and coming musicians to further their career. .
I wish him all the best but this kind of "dating agency" approach inspires me with little confidence. I suspect the list of potential "dates" he has on offer are not really interested in finding an ideal partner they only want the money paid to them for going on a date. Is that not what prostitutes do?

#892686 - 04/15/11 08:05 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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I respect everybody's opinion and I hope that no one holds any hard feelings toward anyone after all is said and done. I know some of us "butted heads" on an issue here and there, but at the end of the day, a good debate is a good debate? Right? :0)

#892687 - 04/15/11 08:07 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Gregory Watton]  
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Kevin Emmrich Online content
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Gregory,

I thought it was a fair enough debate with enough information that a reader can see opposing viewpoints -- and then make up their own minds.

Kevin


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#892688 - 04/15/11 08:10 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Kevin,

I concur. :-)

#892690 - 04/15/11 09:05 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Gregory Watton]  
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Petra Offline
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It's Over? I can't believe it.

Petra


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#892693 - 04/15/11 09:15 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Petra]  
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Move along, Petra. Move along everyone. There's nothing to see here. It's all over. Move along.


Write from your heart, not what you think others want to hear.

https://dansullivan2.bandcamp.com

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/dansullivan2
#892694 - 04/15/11 09:18 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Dan Sullivan]  
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Petra Offline
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Waiting for Brian's Post, maybe in the morning? Have to se what he says.

Petra


Invasion of Aliens!!!
#892753 - 04/16/11 04:03 AM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Petra]  
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niteshift Online content
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Hey Mr Blazetrack ( Ron ),

I really must commend you. You are upfront, well considered and well spoken. You believe in your product, the ethics behind it, and don't promise anything more than you claim.

Brian's offer really was a little lop sided ( sorry Brian ). Brian would be one of the guys in the world who would have screened more music than anyone else on the planet. Therefor, you would have recieved the absoulute best. It's a no brainer that which ever producer was picked, that they simply couldn't deny the talent on display.

My own personal problem with the business model displayed is that it is in no way a reflection of ( my own ) reality in the music business.

The vast majority of the music world are just hard working professional people, whose incomes and job oppertunities are diminishing by the minute. And I'm talking not only of the talent, but of the roadies, the techies, the producers, the lighting guys, the mastering engineers, and the list goes on.

For a company such as Blazetrack to put foward such a proposition to professional industry people, is in my opinion both immoral and unehtical. For the real people, that do the real work and the heavy lifting every day, it's almost obscene. It preys on the weak, and it preys on those who don't have contacts and mentorship which they deserve, to rise higher in their field.

In my lifetime, mentorship and guidance was given freely. I know what I know, because of better men before me that gave me their time freely, because they saw something in me. Why ? I don't know. Would I "sell" my knowledge to a younger man ? No ! I give it freely, because that act repays the knowledge given to me.

The real world still works this way. You can't buy contacts. You develop them through what you do.

So, all that I wish to say is that although Ron and his company work in a certain way, I won't be using their "service". If others wish to, that's fine.

Of all the "new business models" presented here over the last few years, I do concede that Ron has been straight up and faced the criticism in an upfront and honest way.

cheers, niteshift

PS - Ron, no one needs to dangle carrots here. We have our own fair share of industry professionals, Grammy, Emmy and Tony Award winners. And we do it for free. Because that is decent.


#892756 - 04/16/11 07:41 AM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: niteshift]  
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Well said Nite eloquently put and I agree 100%. I have worked my way up from very humble beginnings and I know some great guys...ALL of them will give their time freely and help others entering the biz....it is nice to be nice and remember the folk who helped you by helping someone else is a philosophy lost on some of these guys across the pond from the land of the free. How can it be land of the free when they charge for everything...LOL I also think it is obscene and unethical to charge greenhorns for advice that they can get elsewhere for free....and as for paid intros...well that is just a casting couch without the sex a creative take on the oldest profession in the world.... the term "pimp" springs to mind?
The saddest thing is that some people actually defend this scheme and think nothing is wrong with this practice. Says a lot about their morals and ethics....or lack of them.

#892758 - 04/16/11 08:34 AM Re: Blaze Trak in the Wall Street Journal [Re: Blazetrak]  
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Linda Sings Offline
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Originally Posted by Blazetrak


If we did get Andrew Lloyd Webber on Blazetrak, would you pay to make a submission to him??


Yes indeedy. I would.

I'm only halfway through this whole thing but I have to say COME ON!! I've never seen something pull out so many Grouchy Gus'. You've got two of the most pro on the whole board - Sub and Greg {Greg doesn't get his fair shake here from most of you either, IMHO, but he IS as connected as he says he is, and you should believe it, period} --- rooting for this company and all you can do is whine, whine, WHINE! Oh. My. Goodness!!!

Meanwhile---------

I went out a while back to the site -- I talked to BOTH owners Ron and Corey and got excellent personal responses to my questions ------- AND was encouraged to try the "Submit Free to Corey" option just to test it out and SEE HOW IT WORKS.

It's on the site. Corey, the co-owner, can be submitted to for ZERO credits.

I did this, (asking first if I could send 3, and that was approved) for three of my vocal tracks. For EACH ONE Corey sent me a very good, also positive video, about 5 minutes each, discussing the industry pros, markets, and potential of each song.

He's a genuine guy. Very personable.
For me -- that was worth the time and stress for me to send something **somewhere** -- which I had never EVER done before because I keep putting myself down about my abilities.
I have not, yet, submitted my pieces to the names he suggested but they did and do look like a very good fit for what I'm doing.

Big Jim keeps wanting the bad old days back of scouts and agents. Well Jim -- one thing: back then there WAS no internet. There WAS no way other than to send out scouts and keep them searching.

Today: we have Justin Bieber sending his USA family videos from Canada so they could watch him drum. Other people found it - a LOT of other people -- USHER found it -- and honestly: the kid IS actually talented, no matter what you think of his style or genre or all the hype, he has what it takes to be where he is.

The times AND the business HAVE to change with the flow of technology. Period.

As far as I'm concerned Blazetrak credits are NO DIFFERENT than paying TAXI's annual fee, or NSAI, or any other company or service that seeks to "forward" your demos to the pros.

Here: You get a video response FROM the ACTUAL pro.

Shoot, if they got Brian May or Jimmy Page or Robert Plant or Celine Dion or Josh Groban on there --- I'd ante up the credits just for the privilege of the hello!! (and hope to high heaven I did NOT waste their precious time)


Think it through, people! Gah!! At some point, some of ya oughta quit being so crusty.

Brian Whitney our moderator FULLY endorses TAXI. Look over on the right of your screen there. He also CAREFULLY looks out for and seeks-and-destroys any and all potential scammers who come fishing on this site.

The very fact this thread is alive and well after six pages -- AND that you have the business owner himself visiting with you and politely answering your (some, not very politely worded) questions in detail --- REALLY ought to tell you something. About legitimacy.

I personally feel it is a very cool new way to look at the whole mess.

I could pay TAXI $300 a year -- EVERY year -- just to have my songs half-listened to by an employee going through the gigantic slush pile, in the hopes somebody might find something interesting enough to forward it just a little further. (And that does work too, I am not knocking their services *at all!!*)

Or: I can fetch Blazetrak credits and hand-pick the targets with a guaranteed listen and RESPONSE from that individual -- or get my money back.

You, we, I -- we are ALL paying somebody SOMETHING to get through the doors we all hope to someday get through. It's a question of where, and who is the most reputable -- and if Blazetrak is "new," the pros who are signed up with them are *not.* They are the real deal. Working in the industry busting their tails every day. Fifty bucks for five minutes' review from your favorite songwriter or producer? And if you hit the mark -- you could get more than a review.

Like I said. Think it through.

Those of you freaking out about the "money" these pros are making from this -- I'm sorry but this makes me laugh. These people are pulling in millions annually. $160K a year isn't even interest. It might not even be alimony. LOL From our perspective, yes that looks like a lot, but to people working in that upper stratosphere -- it is completely peanuts.

But it DOES help weed out the freeloaders who aren't invested enough in who they are. IMHO.

OK. That's my take.

Linda

#892761 - 04/16/11 09:14 AM Re: Blaze Trak in the Wall Street Journal [Re: Linda Sings]  
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MidniteBob Offline
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Raleigh, ya'll
That's why we love ya Linda. Well said...Probably 'nough said too:-)

Midnite


Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

http://www.twometer.com/Two_Meter_Studios/HOME.html
#892762 - 04/16/11 09:16 AM Re: Blaze Trak in the Wall Street Journal [Re: Mike Caro Substudio]  
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Linda Sings Offline
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OK I'm caught up on Brian's reply now.
Again I haven't paid in any credits to date but I do find the business model intriguing.

I do appreciate free (esp ALL the hard work going into JPF in the foreground and behind the scenes), paying it forward, and giving back to the community: I do get all that.

And I do hear what Jim is saying that it seems tawdry in some way -- I hear that -- and IMO it goes right in with this being the USA I guess, where when Hurricane Katrina hits, there are Looters everywhere scrounging anything of anybody else's they can get their hands on --- and after the tsunami in Japan -- I hear everyone's personal things and stores go completely untouched as *that would be disrespectful.*

So maybe it is a cultural perception.

But what I am seeing is -- actually being listened to -- by the actual person promised to you: and that intrigues me.

There's a reason it's called the "slush pile." After all....

Would it make anybody feel any better if you had to pass a "you are good enough to submit" process from middlemen before you were allowed to buy credits???

Actually I believe that would make me, personally, feel worse about the whole idea and far more suspect of a scam. Just like the bazillion companies out there ready to fluff you up and tell you how wonderful you are just to snag your money....

And I am willing to be wrong about the Almighty Dollar having little effect on the pro's signed up....... sure, in today's economy it must all still count - but there are still such phrases as "working for peanuts" and "you just can't pay me enough" which may apply here -- from their perspective. If you have over a million in the bank earning interest you live off of (having been very smart, let's pretend you were) -- honestly -- $50, $100 by that point is small change. It's a tip at the restaurant tonight - or less.

Meaning: It's *barely* compensation for their time which is, literally, very valuable -- especially considering ANY thing good or bad could be sent and they're committed to the headache of a video reply to absolute JUNK if that's what they get in the box....... and oh MY that part of the job can't be too fun.

Some are crying "expensive!!" and maybe it is, in comparison to Taxi or NSAI's $5-10 critique fees....... but for what it IS, and the fact that they ARE delivering the video responses within the set timeframe, or credits are refunded to try again -- for what it actually IS - it doesn't sound overpriced, to me.

Maybe I'm undereducated on that. I'm willing to be wrong.

But I'll tell you something I know - from being on the critiquer's end: as a freelance editor, it wasn't long before I started taking writing samples before committing to a client.

Had good reasons for that.... yeah.

I have to say - from these professional's viewpoint - kudos for being willing to open yourselves up to sorting through the random slushpile, and allowing the possibility of finding talent this new internet way a chance.

Ethical, unethical, to charge a fee?
Lawyers charge fees, doctors charge fees...
Specialists in any field, ESPECIALLY charge fees...
Shrug.

Anyway it's the middle of the night and I may not be making any sense.

smile

Linda

Last edited by Linda Adams; 04/16/11 09:31 AM.
#892763 - 04/16/11 09:17 AM Re: Blaze Trak in the Wall Street Journal [Re: Linda Sings]  
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LOL Midnite, yeah -- I finally caught up to Greg's saying maybe this one's gone on long enough and should be locked. haha
And added more anyway smile
done now --
thanks --
Linda

#892768 - 04/16/11 09:49 AM Re: Blaze Trak in the Wall Street Journal [Re: Linda Sings]  
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Linda I understand where you are coming from and agree....It is down to principles and human nature....It is not surprising that etiquette, morals and ethics go out the window when folk think they will score with a big time producer or folk think they can take a shortcut or make a fast buck....TEMPTATION IS A STRONG EMOTION.
I UNDERSTAND...... JUST DO NOT AGREE WITH IT.
You are spot on about it being a cultural thing. I take issue about the bad old days and the internet is here thing. Why should the talent scouts be redundant? There is a place for them and their job is made even easier with the internet. If the people on the various rungs of the ladder did their job then people with talent would rise......and there would be no need for buying credits......it is all about working your way up and meeting folk on the next level who can take your career further on up the ladder....not buying your way up or missing several rungs on the way. This NEW way of doing things is probably the reason todays music is SOoooo naff and the people behind it SOoooo corrupt. Just my take.
Rant over. nuff said.

#892802 - 04/16/11 01:14 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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niteshift Online content
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Thank you Jim. I really appreciate your comments.

It's very difficut for me to stand up and say what I do. It's not good for me, and not good for pushing my music further. But heck, I'm old and over it, and perhaps younger folks can learn from the experience.

I guess as an older man, I'll just say what I see as right.

I've never been "famous" but by God, I've had a few well known men come through my front door, and not one of them would ever entertain this nonsence.

But hey, I'm just a colonial and not from the land where we sell our soul(s).

cheers, niteshift

PS - my American mates will, assuradly disregard any implied regional bias.


#892835 - 04/16/11 03:27 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE *DELETED* [Re: niteshift]  
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Post deleted by Johnny Daubert


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





#892842 - 04/16/11 04:15 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
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Kevin Emmrich Online content
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Johnny: I have no idea what you are talking about -- but I am hungry now.

#892857 - 04/16/11 05:38 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Sorry John I also have no idea what you are talking about.
But to put this whole thing to bed......
Some years ago I was crucified by loads of people on this forum for daring to say that the whole business was corrupt and unethical run by suits who were only interested in money and actually had no love and little understanding of music in general but knew how to make a buck ripping people off by using hype and marketing or operating unethical scams. I also said that most of the music produced was third rate crap churned out just to make a quick buck and most of the stars got there through contacts and not talent. I went as far as to say that the only reason a lot got their fame was because they were related to other stars or people who were already big shots in with contacts in the biz. I also stated that buying into the biz was ethically wrong but that is how a lot of folk did it. There were tons of people with talent in spades who deserved a fair shot but the odds were stacked against them because the biz was so crooked was another of my points.
Now most people disagreed entirely with these points and said I was an idiot who did not know what he was talking about and did not know the biz.
This thread has not only reinforced my take and hopefully got people to think about ethics but has actually shocked me into thinking the unimagineable that if anything the biz is even more crooked than I could ever dream possible.
So for all those who are willing to pay for an introduction and who see nothing ethically or morally wrong with paying whether through Blazetrak or some other site offering a similar service go for it...... you deserve each other.

#892860 - 04/16/11 06:17 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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There's obviously several people with different matters of opinion. At the end of the day, I still help my friends and I don't charge them for it, but my time is valuable, so for something of a business nature, I wouldn't just give any ol' chum off the street a shot if I didn't know who they were, what they could do, or what their background was like. That would be taking a shot in the dark and not many people would be willing to take that sort of risk.

Now, if someone had a flat tire on the side of the road, was homeless and needed my help, or something that required a charitable heart, I'd be the first to stop and help in a heart beat without thinking about what would be in it for me.

So even though some of us are wondering about the ethics and moral issues of certain business models, I have one thing to say to you. America is a capitalistic society. It's just the way it is. Business is business and it will always be like that.

Jim, you've got a good heart, but I enjoy writing pop music. It's okay for you not to like that kind of music, BUT it is ALSO ok for people that DO like it and continue writing/performing it. If you don't like it, don't listen to it.

#892874 - 04/16/11 07:43 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Gregory Watton]  
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I'll put in a penny or two on this thread. I wouldn't want to be left out of such a popular thread.

Though paying for critiques has never been so wide spread (as Linda mentioned; it's a new ball game - enter the Internet). It's really nothing new.

Anyone remember the famous DJ, record company owner, and author Shad O'Shea? His first book was titled "Just For the Record". Great book, loved it at the time.

Anyway, in his book he solicited readers for personal critiques via a cassette tape. I have one of his in-depth critiques of a song my brother and I wrote. Can't quite remember what Shad charged ($20-$25 ?), but it was well worth it at the time. Kind of put the music business in perspective for snot-nosed whippersnaps like us.

I don't remember anyone making a fuss about it then. Of course there wasn't the Internet at the time.

Okay, now I'm part of this thread. grin

John smile

#892876 - 04/16/11 07:46 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Welcome to the thread John!

#892877 - 04/16/11 07:55 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Gregory Watton Offline
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Since you put it that way John, (although if you've read the board, Blazetrak isn't charging people for critiques, they're offering access at a cost, for people to submit material to celebrities of their choice), that there are other people out there charging for critiques and such as well.

If I recall, Jason Blume is a JPF mentor and he has a website offering up different services (for a fee) as well. www.jasonblume.com

No one gripes about that...

#892878 - 04/16/11 08:24 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Gregory Watton]  
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Oh yes they do...A while back I went on at length about Mr Blume and others who charge for critiques and other services plus write books that say nothing new or something we do not already know..... and again got slated for it.....maybe one day I will say something that folk actually agree with.

#892879 - 04/16/11 08:31 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Gregory Watton Offline
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So you think everything should basically be free of charge Jim?

#892880 - 04/16/11 08:33 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Gregory Watton]  
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I think in order for you to have the world you want to live in Jim, that would require a revolution and an overthrow of global capitalistic policies and socialistic tendencies.

#892881 - 04/16/11 08:33 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Gregory Watton]  
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But in something like that, there's a worse cost than a few bucks being spent.

#892885 - 04/16/11 08:52 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: Gregory Watton]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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Greg..you have me all wrong..... just a few bucks that nobody really worries about multiplied thousands of time is thousands of bucks and that multiplied a few time can be millions. So the few bucks is irrelevant it is the principle....if a man steals a penny he is still as much a thief as if he stole a million.
I do not think everything should be free..and I do not have a problem with profits...what I do have a problem with is GREEDY PEOPLE, UNETHICAL PEOPLE, CHEATS AND SCAMMERS.

#892886 - 04/16/11 09:02 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Just to clarify my position....Ron might be a nice bloke and he might believe in what he is doing and some people will see him and Blazetrak as a valuable service. That is up to them.
I on the other hand see his business plan as unethical and unprofessional.....and perhaps a tad greedy....I also think that the producers who seek introductions for money also qualify as greedy and unethicl and unprofessional. It is an insult to the few people in the business who do operate ethically.

#892892 - 04/16/11 09:19 PM Re: Blaze Trak -- it's a PRESS RELEASE [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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You are entitled to your opinion.

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