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In my opinion, the best thing that each of us can do is to report them to the Better Business Bureau.

The man I spoke with was very aggressive in trying to get me to pay right then and there, and he knew NOTHING about my music.

The same exact thing happened to me, except this was with one of those online record companies.
I did a search and found out there were many that happened to.

Matt

Donnie,

Thanks for sharing your story. Anyone who reads it and still wastes their money with a company who would act that way should just light a match to their possessions and wealth and cut out the middle man.

Brian

Brian,

The reason I feel so strongly about this issue.....

I had only been writing songs since last July or August.....and I posted some early home demo's I recorded in the fall of 2006. Within a month or two of setting up a myspace page, I was contacted by this A&R select company. I knew my material was beginner stuff......and they tried to tell me that it was top notch worthy of TV/radio placement.

I felt like because I was new at this.....someone was trying to prey upon me. Or they specifically looked for someone who did not necessarily know what they were doing just yet.

Donnie, Your music may very well be top notch no matter how long you have been writing. I don't know. But remember this. Never trust anyone who contacts you unsolicited. In other words , if you know that you never sent them music than it is most likely a shark who is contacting you. Unless they can specifically name your songs and explain what they like about your music than you can talk seriously to them. Like was stated before, a real A&R man works for a record co. He has no reason to ask you for money. Ben

I would like to emphasize to do a search whenever you get a solicitation like that.
Not that it would take that much. A reputable company I would think would have to be seeked out through channels if a third party vouched for you in the business.

One disadvantage with the net often is not being able to see someones face as they are talking.

But there are so many sociopaths anyway.

Matt

I was contacted twice by them, the first time about 8 months ago and the second a few weeks ago. I saved both e-mails, and they both read exactly the same, save for the fact that one of them claimed to be from "Dave" and the other from "Daphne". I called them out of curiosity and sure enough Dave nor Daphne was there, but instead "Jamal".

He gave me the standard walk-through: they just got someone placed in a movie for $15,000, they have all the inside contacts, etc. When I asked him what percentage of their artists actually get placed, he told me he had no such figures. He also told me that the company receives nearly all of their profit from when artists get signed or placed, rather than from the "membership dues". When asked why than we were required to pay the dues, he had no answer. At this point he became very rushed and said things like "if you're not serious about this I need to go find a new artist to pursue", I found this particularly funny since he had never known I'd even existed until I called him 5 minutes previous as he was neither Dave nor Daphne. I told him I would like to call him back the next day since $500 would be a very significant investment for me, and he tried to tell me that he needed to hear back from me that same day or his superiors would not be able to promote me as well. At this point I just laughed and hung up.

If you're at all curious about this service or unsure as to whether they're legit or not, just call them up and you'll find your answer.

The more we hear about the way these guys conduct business, the worse it gets. Ack.

Brian

Hey there, folks,

There was a post on Craigslist here in Dallas saying "Major Record Label A&R looking for Dallas Bands". It told of a place at the Galleria to go to, and dig this, in 4 days for an audition. So, I googled them, found a website and tried to register, but the screen kept flickering and wiping out my info. It was very frustrating, so I gave up. I became suspicious so I found a thread to JPF with some similar info on it.....This company claims to be the "leader" in the industry as in this A&R Select group.

Could this also be a scam? Has anyone ever heard of these people? I really was excited to go, but I don't want to get there and they hit me up for a $30.00 entry fee. I'll bet every wanna be hip hop artist will be there. Their ad in Craigslist is at http://dallas.craigslist.org/muc/340846956.html

And it bugs me that they zoom into town, and auditions are in 4 days at The Galleria in Dallas, and those accepted will play a showcase in mid July. It's almost like they're trying to catch people off guard, and not giving them time to think.

Mark Christopher

BTW, one of my new songs "Searching" (my best to date) mentions JPF in the second verse, thought you'd like to know. It's on www.garageband.com/artist/markchristopher

I've posted this on other sites because i think this might help someone out.

I'll break it down like this:
-I've been a member of A&R Select since the beginning of '07 and I've paid for a year's service with them ($499.99).
-I had used to be one of their most popular musicians with my ranking on their page at number one, until more artists signed on, then I've fallen past number 13 just recently.
-What must be understood is that these fake music charts are an industry joke. Read in "The Truth About The Music Business by Steve Moore", these "charts" only satisfy the feeling of accomplishment for artists on their site and are not legitimate music charts.
-What also needs to be noticed first is how A&R Select CAN'T GUARANTEE A THING, but how can they in the "music business?
-What they do for artists is the BARE MINIMUM to prevent the musicians they scam from suing them. This includes the artist bio, the music campaign, the phone image and music consultation, the little fake myspace page, and the tease of money through "submission" possibilities.
-What artists need to get from my experience is this:
*AFTER YOU PAY YOUR MONEY, THEY DON'T RETURN PHONE CALLS NOR EMAILS.
*THEY ONLY STICK TO THE BASICS OF THEIR AGREEMENT THEN THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING ELSE.
- This is a clever scam because they give you the impression that they are one of the top producing A&R Companies in California, with Grammy nominated artists and such - But they are music sharks. They get your money and toss you aside for their next prey.
- If there's anything to learn from this experience is that 1) You need to do extensive research on what your getting into with the music business. 2) If you were scammed by these people, or others, then this acts as a test to see if you can withstand the pot holes and pitfalls that line your path to success in this business. 3) Almost NEVER PAY UPFRONT OR BEFORE SEEING ANY REAL RESULTS.

If you're serious about pursuing your music goals, I suggest you buy books on the subject. "The Truth About The Music Business" is like a bible for me. Other books include "All You Need To Know About The Music Business", "The Songwriter's Market", "The Business of Music", and others. In addition to innumerable amounts of information of legitimate websites, THEY ALL SUGGEST YOU DON'T PAY MONEY UPFRONT! Granted, there are few exceptions where you may need to pay money upfront to a record producer and you do need to take care of YOUR OWN supply expenses. But to PAY FOR PROMISES is a costly mistake that new musicians make. And sharks like A&R Select know that.

So I guess by the post above you can conclude that I lived the scam first hand. But this only makes my resolve a little stronger, because of being scammed, I've had to do the hard research on my own. I better understand what I need to do, and I am on my way.
Hope it helps, and steer clear of those song sharks.

This is a letter I sent to the "CEO" of A&R Select about 4 days ago(I got sucked into it embarassingly enough about a month ago) ....The "CEO" has yet to respond...

Hi Mike,
In this following complaint I don't mean any disrespect to you or your company, I just simply feel I need to report the activities, or lack there of, that have come along with my A&R membership. Any qoutes I have used from your reps are direct, I have kept all of our emailed conversations. I feel now that I may not be the best fit with A&R Select.

My name is Robert Lyon. I signed up for your service with A&R Select on 6/20/07. I paid $399.99 for a 1 year membership. I was very pumped about joining your team because of how great it sounded and because it is a great idea. Unfortunately so far, I feel I have spent more time and money than I feel you guys have on me. The truth of the matter is, I haven't received one service out of your catalogue this month. I did receive a bio though, which consisted of 17 sentences, 3 misspellings, and 2 sentences that didn't make any sense. One day after I had received that bio, you confirmed to me via email that you had received my cd in the mail for review. That was great. I waited until the 10th of July and received confirmation from my rep, that their review of my cd was finished. He asked me when I would like to be contacted and I gave him a few spots throughout the day I would be free because of my appointments and other various obligations. No call that day, but receieved an email the next morning saying "Sorry I got your email too late, its been crazy. is tomorrow good??". I thought, no biggie, everyone gets sidetracked sometimes, so I told him it wasn't a big deal, im free everyday so just give me a call. Once again, no call, no email the next day, nothing. I just figured he forgot or whatever....I'm a very patient person, so I just waited. No more emails, no calls. So July 20th rolls around, and I decide to email Joe again, asking when we can get this going . But, from a customers point of view I really didn't want to, or think I should have, but then again I did spend $399. He responded, "Monday email me and I'll go over everything with you that day. I have everything finished and i am ready. just email me as a reminder in the morning and we'll be all good. Thanks!". This email astonished me and made me really angry. First of all, I know he's ready, he's been ready for 2 weeks, second of all, the customer shouldn't have to remind the professionals they are paying to do their job, I've been reminding him for weeks!! I thought then with that email, I had had enough, and that I was going to do something about it, but I decided to cool down and respond back by saying, "Yah Joe, I'll do that. Thanks, Robert". I'm on vacation this week, so once again I am free every hour of the day to talk as long as I please. So I woke up that Monday morning 3 days later, and give my rep, a simple little email reminder for his day, thinking that we'll finally talk and we can put all this junk behind us. No Call Monday. I get back from the beach at around fourish to see that I have received an email from Joe at 2:20:07 PM, stating "Robert, okay cool, Im pretty packed today BUT I'll give you a call tomorrow so we can do this! that cool?". I emailed back saying, “yes that’s cool", but I thought what a joke. Today is tomorrow, and its 3:52 PM. Joes hasn't called me. I feel I'm out of reminders for Joe, and a little depressed at how this is all working out.
Once again, I'm sorry if I'm coming off disrespectful to you Mike; I know that you haven't wronged me in any way. I just know that you’re the CEO of this company, and I would appreciate my money back because of the reasons I have stated. As a customer, I feel like I have made a $399 donation to your company without your professional services being provided to me in any way shape or form. And as of 2006, there is nothing in your Terms of Agreements that would reject me, or make my request for a refund unreasonable.

I'm sorry for inconveniencing you with all of this.
Thanks for your time.
Robert Lyon

I aslo attached this letter to my rep, who immediatly called me that night, very very sympathetic. But luckily I did get them to say that they would give me half my money back. But I still have yet to see it in my account.

Now I don't want to pass judgement onto a business that might have all the right intentions in mind, A&R very well could become a great asset in the music industry and just conducted themselves poorly with me. But as far as I'm concerned, it was very scammish and it was something in my life that I definately could have done without. The experience was a quite embarrassing and humiliating one. I'm still kind of depressed. haha

But I take my experience for what it's worth....
A few good lessons or two to learn:

***Always know who your dealing with, do research, ask around, don't just jump into (or feel pressure on the phone) something like that, especially if they are asking for money up front.***

some embarrassment, and definately some good laughs.
But You Guys are all friends here in the Just Plain Forum and I just wanted to share my experience with ya'll

Hope it Helps

Robert

Hello Fellow Musicians.
I recently had a very depressing fiasco with a company called A&R Select.
Now, I don't have 100% convincing evidence that this was a total scam, but I'll admit I was getting the heeby-jeebies.
I know I know, I definately shouldn't have just jumped into the smoothe talking reps sales pitch, but I did. I got excited that someone "actually like my music". I'm an 18 year old song writer, and it was a cool feeling to have someone from West Hollywood, CA, call me, and start telling me about how my music had potential, and how their services could help me get a step up in the industry. A&R Select's "extensive" services are: writing the artist a bio, setting up an online store for the artist, a band/artist music/image consultation, making a press kit, and a press release for the certain band or artist.
Im pretty sure it was $299/6mnths and like $499/1yr.
...very depressing, I know. I was drunk with compliments, and thought,"hey what the heck". So I bought it right on the spot for a year.
To cut to the chase....I received my "bio" a week later, it had 17 sentences, 3 misspellings, and 2 fragments. Thats all I should need to say about that. Then I was scheduled the next week for my music consultation. (The Music Consultation is where one of the reps talks with you one on one about the cd you submitted by mail to them after you signed up, they go over the pros and cons and other constructive criticisms) The rep said he would call me,he didnt. I forgave him. The next day he claimed he was bombarded with work and thats why he forgot and asked if we could do it the next day. I said sure. He didn't call. I don't hear from the guy for another week and a half until I decide to contact him myself and ask him when we can get this going (it was on a friday)....I'm already disgusted, but I'm nice about it. He says, " Yeah of course man, I'm all ready...but uh, just give me an email monday morning to remind me". That to me was the biggest joke of all....remind the guy I'm paying to do his job...OK! But I did. I reminded him monday morning via email, because I spent $400. But no call on monday! He was too busy he said ONCE AGAIN. I have had it at this point, but I continue to keep my patience, I didn't want to get any bogus service because I gave him a piece of my mind. So I told him once again that tomorrow would be fine. Well Tomorrow came around and he didn't call me. So I wrote a very long email to the "CEO" (who still hasn't emailed me back) reporting the negligence of my representative and the other complaints I had had while being a memeber and, in short, telling him I want my money back. ..and also a little email to my rep, with that document I sent to the "CEO" attached to it just so we weren't hiding anything. Funny enough, i get a call that night from a very very sympathetic and apologetic rep. But I told him I want my money back and I'm done. Unfortunately I'm only getting refunded half my money becuase the "bio" and the online artist store were part of the services I paid for and I ...had received them. ALL OF THIS HAPPENED IN THE PAST MONTH. THE FINAL REFUND DECISION WAS MADE TODAY, BUT I STILL HAVE YET TO SEE THE MONEY IN MY ACCOUNT.

Now I don't want to pass judgement onto a business that might have all the right intentions in mind, A&R very well could become a great asset in the music industry. But as far as I'm concerned it was very scammish and something in my life that I could have done without. The experience was a quite embarrassing and humiliating one. I'm still kind of depressed. haha

So I want to start a support group!...obviously you can't hear my tone of voice as I type. But I take my experience for what it's worth....
A few good lessons or two to learn:

***Always know who your dealing with, do research, ask around, don't just jump into (or feel pressure on the phone) something like that, especially if they are asking for money up front.***

some embarrassment, and definately some good laughs.
But You Guys are all friends here in the Just Plain Forum and it's good to hear im not alone in this.

Someone asked about this post. Here it is.

The average publishing company pays between $50,000-$250,000 a year to stay in business in Nashville. More in Los Angeles and New York.

An average major label release costs somewhere around $2.5 million dollars to record and promote.

All of these companies are paying hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions for advertising, promtion, commerical viability.

If you think you can pay between $250 and $500 a year and compete with that,and that THEY sought you out, an untested, untrained commodity in a business that REQUIRES PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS, how do you think that is supposed to work.

They are pretty much ALL like this.

If they cannot provide you with facts, figures and references of people they are working with, DON'T DO ANY OF THIS!

MAB

I think the A&R select are doing their business however because they are overloaded with disgruntled panicky investors of one year subscription they cannot function properly.

Marc insider opinion is true and it all happens in every entertainment industry worldwide. Connection is the key, and some grease to turn system.

Lyman,

As usual the Balut division has great insights. Everyone should just ask this question:

You have been working on your songs for a long time, learning the craft, finding the ideas, writing, recording, spending the money etc. How many of other people's songs would you forward over your own?

That's the real deal.

MAB

Hey Marc,

How many songs would I foward over my own ? Simple. Any one that cuts mine to shreds for that particular placement. Everyone wants to work with winners, and if you know a winning song, you tell your buds ( or foward it yourself, if you know them well enough ) Hopefuuly, someday, the favour will be returned.

cheers, niteshift

Better Business Bureau's complaint summary:

Most complaints allege the company fails to refund monies after requests for cancellation. Many complainants allege the services offered are misrepresented, or are not provided. Specifically, customers contend that the company offers representation, licensing agreements, publicity campaigns, image consultations and sends music to record labels. Some complainants allege the company fails to get their songs in a movie soundtrack, commercial or video game and make their music available to fans as ringtones, or through other internet music sources. Other complainants allege after 6 month subscription they wish to cancel their membership, however, the customer’s bank accounts are automatically charged without authorization for an additional 6 months. A few complainants allege the company fails to return phone calls. The company responds to most complaints regarding misrepresentation by stating that all services were rendered as promised. The company responds to some complaints by issuing refunds, stating issues were resolved prior to the complaint being processed, or by explaining the customer is currently being offered services as a member. The company responds to complaints about reoccurring memberships by stating that members are active until they cancel, and that all customers are made aware of rebilling cycle at the time of sign up. The company responds to a few complaints by stating refunds will not be issued as the customer did not send in cancellation.

Lynman,

Nice to see you, but based on all of this info posted from first hand customers plus the BBB summary, your premise is incorrect.

Folks, it is my opinion that you stay far far away.

Brian

Nightshift,

If it meant not paying your rent, mortgage, childrens education, food,car payment? Since you never know if a song is going to do anything, that is exactly what you are doing. And in addition, you are not in business to promote other people. Every song that has ever been a hit has been turned down dozens of times by dozens of people.

The unsurety, coupled with you paying money for a certian service involved, salaries, etc. and that doesn't leave you the option of promoting anyone else over yourself. It's another "looks good on paper" argument. Doesn't happen in real life. If it did you would be the one signing the deals, promoting the songs and making the money.

MAB

Hey Marc,

Yeah, but I'm talking about real songs , not twang town tunes, which all sound the same.

Example ; "Transvestite only resort requires Carribean music with a Disco twist for 6 month web promotion. Shemale vocals a bonus" .... got anything in your catalogue ?

cheers, niteshift

I thought you wanted real songs. That is what we do in Nashville. Don't have to resort to a bunch of hybrids. THAT's what sounds the same. But I do know that you guys down there have had your ears burned out for a long time so you probably wouldn't know the difference.

MAB

Hey MAB,

Yes, too much of the 'ol earns burning, down this way, ...but as Oscar Wilde once quipped....

There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.

cheers, niteshift

I got one of those - where do I pitch it?

Asshole & Rectum Select, I guess, Colin ?



cheers, niteshift

Hi Brian

Yes Im back...I also owe something to JPF. I will post my donation sometime this february my credit card I used in my pay pal account is maxed out due to the holiday season expenses.....

Marc.. That self preservation. I have to sell my own Balut. Why should I sell the balut of others? Great insight!!!!! keep posting your insider views we need these kind of unbiased information

Lynman

Lynman,

A little bit o Balut goes a long long way. I once thought I would put in a drive through Balut stand, but Jimmy Bjorda would never go for it. Some people just don't get my vision.

MAB

Haaaaaa-Jimmy seems wise
tim

Marc

I think Jimmy knows we have a lot of Balut stand here. Every corner has one and even a lot of individual Balut distributors shouting this product in the middle of the night and if you going to start one probably theres a lot of copycat will sprouts.
Going back to music its almost the same. Theres the publisher in every corner and theres the independent artist who promote their songs in every bar.
Jimmy knows best LOL

Lynman

I had dealings with them years ago. They're a scam. Nuff said!

What's up with all the newcomers posting on this thread? I counted 24. Is that a record for newcomers on a thread?

Anyway, welcome all of you to JPF - unless you're one-in-the-same.

John

Hey John...

This is an old thread started back in 2006 and ran thru 2007 until Brian bumped it per request last month.

Larry