JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Toby Keith Dissed

Anyone have an idea why Toby Keith was dissed from the cma awards--I don't think he was even invited. I thought maybe it's cause he sings about lots of things the others don't but if that was the case then Kid Rock would have ben dissed as well. Just curious if anyone knows. Take care,
Roger

Roger, I'm not a private detective, but this story might explain part of the reason why Keith isn't beloved in the music award industry.


http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/the-bea...eith-takes-on-reporter-backstage-at-acms



http://9poundhammer.blogspot.com/2009/04/kristofferson-kicks-toby-keiths-ass.html

Good for Keith. It's about time someone confronts these lying cockroach politically motivated media types. The extremist leftist tactic of search and destroy anything and anyone who doesn't bow down to their same leftist view has ruined the entire media/press reputation and there can no longer be the slightest amount of trust that anything written or said by any media outlet bears an ounce of truth in it. Without a robust and reasonably factual press, the US can't keep their politicians and businesses in check and we see the result with the financial crises, bank failures, and massive massive corruption made possible because the media only cares about gotcha stories against their political foes or about propping up their idolized political heroes regardless of how much damage they are really doing. Toby Keith at least had the balls to call it out for the lying bullshit it was.

Sadly, that's less than a microscopic dot in the ocean.

I think that media figures should be held accountable for the accuracy of their reporting with stiff fines and suspensions when they are caught falsifying stories. The libel and slander laws should have more teeth in them and public figures nor private citizens should not be fair game to be lied about. Enough is enough.

Brian

I don't think Toby was dissed at all. He hasn't been the "top dog" in the last year and it happens to everyone. A star is born, a star burns out. It's just time for some new dogs.

The reporter fabricated an aspect of an already false story he didn't bother to verify for accuracy with the folks involved and made it worse. Toby is a target of the media because he's one of the few openly conservative artists out there. It's no different than the media's bogus treatment of Sarah Palin or Glenn Beck and other conservatives versus their fawning and pro Obama worshipping coverage of the President. And the right wing media does the same BS in reverse. You can't trust any of the media coverage as being straight forward and factual.

Standards of reporting have been degrading for a long time. Even I've run into it many times. JPF has been in the Wall Street Journal, LA Times, Chicago Sun Times and Tribune, Washington Post and countless other Newspapers as well as magazines (most of which have since shut down) and with the exception of the Chicago papers, we were never contacted to verify the facts of the stories a single time. Often an email with info or a press release was used verbatum. (And not a press release sent by us, we've never sent one out about ourselves in 14 years). They are lazy at best and dishonest or biased at worst and that's sadly all too common. Even when confronted with indisputable facts that disprove claims printed by the Associated Press in an article, they chose not to retract it and said even though they knew the info was false, it was okay because they took the word of their source and they were safe from legal issues. So they happily printed (and continued to print) false info. I wrote an article about it at the time and named names.

Entertainment media is by nature all a bunch of BS most of the time anyway, but that mindset has polluted the entire profession.

Brian

Don't confuse the issues with facts???? sounds like biznes as usual.
Now this may sound strange but it's a interesting point that those that want to control the "World" insert your world________ here have the power to make or break those who play or don't by some set of ill defined rules. Remember Hight School????? it's grown up.
Problem is that we have such an under educated populous that they don't know they like coke or pepsi because they saw it on TV on some soap. Rolling Stones wrote a song about it.
Had a fellow in the shop the other day tell me he could see the difference in two identically glazed vases from 2 different people. Of course the one that cost 3 times more was the better vase, he could see it.
Maybe it's always been such, just that this is my time to see it.
You can't see it from the inside cause you already paid the price for admission. Wyndham

I know Brian is a fan of Toby Keith and his politics (I am not). But it's disappointing to read Brian's arguments against the Bill of Rights and freedom of the press.

I am not familiar with Brian's own brushes with the media, so I won't comment on them. I have less sympathy for the blowhard Keith, who's made a career out of his reputation as a flag-waving, tough guy musician.

Keith claims he never sassed or got schooled by Kristofferson in front of a number of witnesses backstage at a Willie Nelson 2003 birthday concert, as reported in Rolling Stone.

http://9poundhammer.blogspot.com/2009/04/kristofferson-kicks-toby-keiths-ass.html

If that's true, Keith should file a libel suit against the magazine, which would allow his lawyers to subpoena all of the backstage witnesses and require them to tell the truth about what happened under penalty of perjury. Even if he wasn't awarded damages, Keith would be able to restore his tough-guy reputation if the witnesses backed his story.

Of course Keith would have to risk being exposed as the one who's telling lies about what happened backstage if he were to sue for libel, a risk he's obviously not prepared to take as long as he can cuss and fume, deny it happened and bully reporters at press conferences to make his point.

I'll never lead the rooting section for the corporate mainstream media -especially after it set aside even the pretense of objective reporting during the lead-up to the Iraq War by serving as a bullhorn for government propaganda - but I'll defend the Bill of Rights and freedom of the press, for without them, we can hardly call ourselves free men and women.

Even a Tea Party member would probably agree with me on that.

say there Brian...I am not a political junkie but I gotta disagree about the media's treatment of Sarah Palin. although her only claim to fame is as a half term governor who resigned to pursue more lucrative opportunities, she is relentlessly in the news and I rarely see anything unfavorable about her or her clan. the stories I saw on CNN and NBC about her reality show(a sure sign of class and integrity) said nothing critical at all. that I saw. Katie Couric and Charles Gibson's interviews were both fair and did nothing more than shine a light on Palin for what she was...an ill-informed airhead with a big mouth. all you have to do is read the transcript of the Couric interview. it'll make you wince.

it's only been 7 years since the media as a whole advanced the shameless war propaganda leading up to the invasion of Iraq. even though there are still 50,000 US troops there, it's barely a blip on the media radar. if there were that many foreign troops in the US we'd be recognized as a nation under siege. Iraq is a forgotten war.

empires have been rising and falling for 1000s of years without having a liberal media to blame it on. The Huns may very well be closing in...I just don't think Wolf Blitzer's in cahoots with them.

There are always three sides to every story.....There are the two different opposing peoples arguments and the truth. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

Dan,

Very interesting. You've just spoken like a true liberal who never bothers to learn the truth about something, but instead makes wildly inaccurate assumptions that fit the narrative he wants to tell.

Toby Keith? I couldn't tell you a single song he's ever done. How exactly would that make me a fan? Also I believe he's stated he was a Republican. I am not. Never have been. Didn't vote for Bush the senior or the son. But I guess you know everything eh? Enough to make accusations and cast stereotyped aspersions against me. Thank you for making my point. I have no idea what your politics actually are, but you're acting a whole lot like a liberal.

I've seen magazines and newspapers print press releases verbatum for 25 years and present them as news. I find absolutely nothing wrong in demanding TRUTH in speech. Freedom of Speech is not the same as Freedom to lie. There are laws against that in most jurisdictions, but they have very little teeth. Opinion is protected. You could say "in my opinion, Brian is X" and that is protected. But if you say "Brian IS 'X'" when in fact I am "Z" and you did it because it allowed you to paint me in a negative light to some people, I don't believe Freedom of Speech should protect a lie, nor slander or libel if it's written.

Are you suggesting that lying about someone, or simply making up the worst commentary you can to make someone look bad without any facts supporting your claims is okay with you?

Brian

Brian, You're welcome.

Well Robert if you justify the media frenzy over Palin because she's all the things you say she is, then why aren't they consistent with the Barney Franks and the Joe Bidens and long long list of less than brilliant politicians on the left? Seems they only choose to bristle at those they disagree with.

As for Palin's new show, I haven't seen it, but I did see a promo and it looked like outstanding cinematography. I'll reserve judgement on it until an episode actually airs. Mark Burnette is behind it and I like a lot of his other shows (not all, but most). Amazing how you can be so sure about something you haven't seen. Oh.. I forgot which political ideaology you follow according to the views expressed in your post. That explains it right? = )

Brian

Brian,

I'm glad you said what you did about Toby. when I read the link that Dan supplied I was kinda thinkin --there's 2 sides to each story and I can say Toby is one of the few who is not afraid to stand up and sing about topics that most others(except Kid Rock) sweep under the rug. I am glad to hear someone else with the same kinda thinking as myself. Thanks for your honest reply. Now I have to check out the others in this thread. Take care,
Roger

Sausagelink,

Actually Kid Rock isn't one of the top dogs--but he got a chance to perform.

He, He,
Toby Keith said on a show some time back that he is a Democrat but did support President Bush, etc.

I thikk all those of the Liberal News Media should have a Convention once a year and vote for the, uh, lowest one of them all and line him, or her, up before a fireing squad and blaze away. Just kidding!

The National News Media is failing bit by bit. U.S. World News periodical has stopped Publication, Newsweek is Bankrupt and was sold for 1 dollar to someone.

But remember folks, the Liberal News Media can always serve as a bad example.

Toby Keith is actually on record as a Democrat.
But he's a vanishing breed of Dem, a conservative Democrat.

Toby Keith is on record as saying he ususally votes democratic. I think Willie has said he does also and I believe Haggard said the same thing. They all might have changed by now LIKE EVERYONE SHOULD!

Toby just didn't like the way we were attachked. Imagine that!

quote]Sarah Palin. although her only claim to fame is as a half term governor who resigned to pursue more lucrative opportunities[/quote]

Her only claim except for being
* the first female governor of Alaska
* One of only two women to ever run for Vice President
* Standing up against abortion in a society that says it's
perfectly okay
* being married to a Iron Man
* Raising a Down Syndrome's child born to her in her 40s
* Having written a best selling book
* Being able to whip both our butts

Sarah Palin whas been targeted more than Jesse Ventura and Arnold Schwarzeneggar. I just can't understand that.

I do not know much about the characters mentioned....but will say one thing.....being in the public eye in any field whether it is music, sport, politics or whatever carries great responsibilities regarding their behaviour.......any such person WILL be the subject of malicious gossip, verbal attacks and lies......this can come from many people including the press fellow pros and the public. What separates the good people from the bad is the ability to handle such things with grace and dignity...sadly too many people in the public eye lack this ability when under pressure.
To take it a stage further clever people do not give ammunition easily thereby reduce greatly such attacks.

Big Jim,

Very well said. There comes added responsibility for sure when you're in the public spotlight. Whether politics, religion sports. music--in the end it doesn't really matter. If you're a well known person and you lose it--no doubt you will be made a spectacle of. Unfortunately there's many people who have been made a "spectacle" of that have not done anything wrong. But that's a different conversation. Take care,
Roger

Brian, no disrespect intended in any way but I didn't understand most of your post. the media's focusing on Palin to fulfill its main goal....ratings. I briefly saw a story on Palin's show this AM on CNN. it was in no way unfavorable. I avoid all reality tv like the plague.

hey there sausagelink...most of the items you listed are in no way worthy of fame. my in-laws are still caring for their Down's child in their 70s. commendable and yet no reality show. disagreeing with abortion means a person deserves fame? when did that happen? first female govenor or Alaska? BFD. if being gov of Alaska's such a prize, why did she quit? she quit for the $$$.
being married to an Iron Man is deserving of fame? really? I say again...really?! c'mon...you're making your position look bad with this stuff. tell me you're not wearing a three-corner hat while sitting at your desk.

next thing you'll be saying is getting knocked up at 17 by a doofus makes you a "star". oh wait...I guess these days it does. dance your ass off Bristol.

Same conversation.....Whether guilty or innocent. People do make mistakes.... occasionally they may do something that they should be ashamed of BUT the public will have more respect IF the person holds up their hands and admits the mistake and apologises. Even more respect is shown to an innocent person who does not make a big fuss when false allegations are made but remains calm and dignified.
I agree that journalists do make up stories just to sell papers....perhaps criminal proceedings against them is the way forward and not having to rely on civil action taken against those who adopt this practice. Whilst the public have a right to know information that is "in their interest" nobody has the right to print lies or cause a nuisance by hounding and camping on folks doorstep.

It's the age of instant information and instant gratification. No one has time to check facts -- they need to get on to the next new thing.

They know you're going to forget what they said in a few days anyway as the next shiny object catches your attention.

Hi Roger:

You've started an interesting thread that has turned on the "politics light" here at JPF. IMHO, it all began with Toby when he got "into it" with the darling of the liberal world, the Dixie Chick's lead singer, Ms. Maines. He was all for supporting the troops, all she could do was run down the President. The escalation continued and both parties probably did more harm to themselves than good. If I had to pick a side (and I'd prefer not to do so) it would have to be Toby. I don't like everything he does but he stood his ground on this one and I admired that.

The tragedy regarding the "Chicks" is that they could have sung into infinity if they had just left politics out of their repertoire. These gals had so many great songs and appear to have disappeared from the musical Radar lately.

After all is said and done, I hope we can keep it "civil" here at JPF. We are here for music, not politics, aren't we?

Dave

It's been a few years, and I've already forgotten which politician it was, but he/she had just lost a major election. A political cartoonist was asked for his response. He replied that he hated to see this individual lose, because this person had always, without fail, provided him great material for his cartoons.
I'm betting lately he has an abundance of material on both sides of the political spectrum.
Ott

Dave,

I agree with keeping things civil. And to be honeat-_I really was just wondering why Keith wasn't on the cma show. LOl. I had no idea things were so involved but I should have known better. Religion and politics are probably the 2 most dangerous subjects to approach. From what I've read I'm glad everyone has kept it civil. It just backs up what I've said about this website--it's got a lot of really great and talented people. Take care,
Roger

I see another political forum eh? Well,there is actually another part to this. Toby really doesn't care for the CMA's or Awards in general. He does very well without them and has been involved in the past. But he has also skipped them when he was invited.

Every genre has them. George C. Scott turned down his Oscar for Patton because he didn't believe in an "actor's competition."

On Oscar Night, Woody Allen was playing clarinet in a regular club gig he played in New York City in a Dixie Land Jazz Band. His movie. Hannah and Her Sisters were racking up awards. Just didn't show up.

To be honest with you, this is probably the way I would be if ever nominated for an award. And having won a few, including a few I didn't show up for, I can actually say from experience. The best Award' is when people embrace your stuff. That is really all I am interested in.

But each person has to address it in what works for them.

Actually, the problem the Dixie Chicks got into was not as much the Bush quotes.It is when they called their audience "stupid redneck hicks", claimed they didn't "want any of their CD's to be owned by people that would also have a "Reba McEntire CD in their CD changer", and how much they hated Nashville. That was interesting to do in a society that had embraced them just a few years before.

You can always say whatever you want. Just have to deal with the fallout when you say something.

MAB

Just when you think it could NOT get any Weirder.Be careful what you talk about, because it comes true. I did not know about this at all, and just found out about it in a radio interview I did Saturday. My girlfriend says I got a package in the mail today and a trophy and certificate was in it.

I have made the Alabama Music Hall of Fame.

http://www.alamhof.org/marcalanbarnette.html

Talk about winning an award and not showing up. I am winning them and didn't even know they existed. How do these things happen anyway?

Just let you know I wasn't lying to you. It's very nice. I also won a "Telly Award" for a video, Less Is more" and a "Diamond Award" for some kind of inspirational group somewhere.

Shows you that you never know what you are going to get into.

Strange world.

MAB

Toby got dissed
Or maybe he didn't
Perhaps he stayed home
Cos his heart wasn't in it
Whatever the case
His music still shines
There's freedom of speech
He's just speaking his mind

Congrats on the awards Mr. M A and B,
If my math is correct you garnered all three!
(don't know if I believe you grew up in the Church choir though! LOL just jiving)

Best,
Lynn

hiya Marc,

I was wondering how long you could hold out. LOl. Good to hear from you--and I didn't know the Dixie chicks said that stuff--now that wasn't real bright. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if ya start cutting down Nashville and you're doing Country music--Helloo--- that ain't a real good move. LOl. There was that saying Hello Mcfly.

Lynn--love the lines. Nice metering too. LOl.

Roger,

I just didn't find this until later. I am in Fla. doing the Frank Brown Songwriter's festival, have done 8 shows in four days and a workshop preceeded by three weeks of tours and workshops in Nashville. Haven't been able to get on everything.

I have commented on this earlier. A lot of these topics pop up over and over again. Kind of forgot about it and due to my own thing about awards, (I stopped watching the CMA's in 1990, and I head to Fla. every year the night of the CMA's) I just don't pay any attention.

Where a lot of my information comes is from personal contacts. A very good friend of mine is Chuck Cannon, who is great friends and one of Toby' top cowriters. I remember very much this stuff happening because I also knew people who were working with the Dixie Chicks and with Toby. I even met Natalie and Emily a couple of years before they were signed.

Natalie was always a cantankerous woman. Did a lot of "I HATE MEN' songs which I never like. She was always very verbose and kind of like sand paper.

There was a Civil War in Nashville between conservatives and Liberals. Most songwriters are conservative because they are small businesses and have to live life in the real world. Most of the outsiders, those from LA, New York, Austin, etc. are very liberal because they often come from colleges or insulated circles of people. But both camps are very charitble, help each other and for the most part stay out of each other's way. We very much keep to our own business. There is plenty of that to keep us all busy.

The Dixie Chicks were from Austin so they always had their kind of "anti-Nashville" bias attitudes. They actually wanted to be more of a rock act. But they had to do what they had to do and did country and were successful. And they were mistreated. At one point they had to audit their record company, Sony and they found they were owed $12 million dollars. They got it and their own record company, Monument records.

When 9-11 happened everyone joined together for a few months. Everyone wanted to quit the music business at first, and emails,phone calls and conversations went on about how stupid writing, recording and performing music when there were so many other "serious" issues going on. That lasted about two months and then we got back to business.

The Toby Keith/Chicks fight came out of a series of statements that both of them made back and forth around some other award shows. I believe it was backstage at the ACM awards that it all got started. That led to some other interviews and all hell broke loose. Their publicists and record companies tried to dampen the controversy, because that doesn't sell in country music. The more negative stories,and things that work in rock and pop, getting publicity, drug problems, Lindsey Lohan/Britanny Spears, type meltdowns, don't have the same effect in country.

We don't believe all publicity is good publicity. Since our target audience tends to run more conservative, that can lose you more fans than you will get.

It built to a head when the Iraq war was going on. And the Dixie Chicks started being downright Nasty. They didn't get some nominations for the CMA"s and started spouting off about how backward and hicks the country music audience was. That started a firestorm and while the rest of the country and the news focused on the rift between them and Toby (Natalie wore a shirt that read "F**k Toby Keith" on a television show, and Toby did "Boot in Your A**) the country audience were the one's who felt dissed.

So there was push back. Gerry House,a Nationally syndicated DJ who had never really liked their attitudes, started talking back at them and that escalated a war of words. A lot of DJ's quit playing their music and they had "crush the Chicks CD' parties at local clubs. Since they had a very large tour going on at that time, there was a lot of speculation about how many people would tear up their tickets.This was dumb because when you have paid $128 each for tickets, pay for baby sitters, parking, etc. you are not going to just NOT show up at the shows. So the tour went on fine and they did well.

It culminated with them not showing up for the CMA's and Reba McEntire,who was one of the featured presenters on the CMA awards, said "It looks like the Dixie Chicks couldn't be here tonight. I guess they have their feet in their mouths.."

Was a big thing and from there on out, Nashville was pretty much done with them. They continued to bad mouth us for the next year and went into a hiatus and recorded their next record in Austin in Natalee's Dad's studio. When it was released it won some big pop awards, but a lot of that was due to the controversy, which works in the rock world. To us it was like the spoiled kids like Paris Hilton, who just take every opportunity to bad mouth you. And this was a community that LOVED the Chicks before all this started. Even when they were a little acerbic in statements and attitudes, the Nashville music business and the country community supported them.

The ceased to get country airplay, and rock has not embraced them either. They had children. Dropped out of the spotlight and have not returned. Emily and her sister released a CD last year I believe hit around number 98 with an anchor and dissapeared quickly.

This is what so much of this stuff is. Toby has had his own run in's with the Nashville establishment. Nearly getting into a fist fight with Label head Luke Lewis, then paying over a million dollars to buy his own record back, to release songs like "Wanna Talk About Me" and "How do You Like Me Now" which Luke thought were not the right songs, were all part of it. He formed his own label, Show Dog, and now is doing well.

So a lot of political,cultural, and behind the scenes wrangling have as much to do with who doesn't show up on awards or even participate in the game.Like everything in the music industry, it is an iceberg, most people only see a very small part of it.

We all have our quirks. When you get into higher positions, your words and deeds get magnified. Unfortunate but true. You can say anything you want about any subject. But also have to deal with alienating your fan base. And when you diss your fans, paybacks are HELL!

MAB

Humm,
Marc all I got to say is: BEWARE OF GREEKS BAREING GIFTS! I guess the Dixie Chicks Career took a nosedive after those remarks. Such is life. Now if I could just get my 15 minutes of fame! But you know how it is, I could say some weird things and not even get arrested!

Marc,

I always appreciate your in depth knowledge on how things work. That was one hell of a story and it definitely explains things. Thanks for your insight on things as usual.

P.S. Haven't forgot about that tour. LOl. Probably lookin at March time frame now. We are both extremely busy in our own worlds. LOl. take care,
Roger

Natalie Maines' actual quote was: "I'd rather have a smaller following of really cool people who get it, who will grow with us as we grow and are fans for life, than people that have us in their five-disc changer with Reba McEntire and Toby Keith. We don't want those kinds of fans. They limit what you can do."

I can understand how it was interpreted from a Nashville perspective as a slap in the face, but as an outsider, I don't think that was the intent.

It sounds a lot like Brian's philosophy of targeting a smaller number of loyal fans who will spend spend money on you each year.

Actually, the Courtyard Hounds (Emily and Martie) hit number 7 on the Billboard top 200 chart with their album but it did sink pretty quickly. It seemed more aimed at the Americana market than mainstream country.

Keith and Maines. Liberal, Conservative and Libertarian. Political arguments are mostly about egos, overwrought sensibilities and emotions, not reasoning. Come to think of it, most human behavior is.

Got that right.

Thanks for the quote Kevin.You are right. To us it was about 6 years of insuffarable attitudes in private and public that soured a lot of us by the time it came to that. Having them dismiss certain songwriters and people early on in their career in certain forums led to a lot of animosity. And as I say, my meetings with them early in their career (Emily lived in an apartment owned by my publishers at one time)didn't do anything to improve my personal perception of them.

But most of this thread was about Toby getting Dissed. Let's just say there can be a lot of fur flying from time to time.


MAB

The Chicks might have done all that but I still get chills when I hear Natalie Maines sing Traveling Soldier. I love the way she sings.

The problem with a lot of people with those attitudes, is that they have equally impressive abilities. Divaism usually starts because they are very accomplished at what they do. Just can't ever believe too much of your own press. You are always one flop away from back where you started.

MAB

Toby is a card-carrying Democrat.

Geeeezzzz.
"You can't make this stuff up".
Ott

Do they have card carrying Democrats in Tennessee?
Maybe he votes in Oklahoma

My voter's registration just says I can vote. No Party affiliation.

Toby is a card-carrying Democrat.

Bill,

Some people have to write on the card to help them remember which way to vote. LOl

Ok--I'm just having some fun--don't need everyone going off all political on that one.

Back to music. I see some people saying we should leave politics out of music, out of the discussions.

When I was a kid one of the patriotic songs we'd sing is the chorus to "This land is my land, this land is your land." It made us proud to be Americans.

When I got older, I put away childish things. I learned that song was a highly political song very critical of our government.

Woody Guthrie was as left leaning as they get. That doesn't stop me from appreciating his music.

Too bad the left doesn't feel that way about conservative songs, and writers. It only shows their double standard and bias.