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Joined: Sep 2010
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Hi,
i am utsav goyal i live in Indore, India...I saw some very beautiful posts here at JPF and would like to take some reviews...I have a band of 4 members...we have inspirations from Indian classical music, A lot of rock music and some pop music...I have always wanted to be a full time musician but my family wanted me to study and get a job so i did i became an engineer and got a job...but now that i have a job i dont get enough time to play my music completely...

When i talk to my family about quiting the job and becoming a full time musician and earning money from gigs...my family says no you have got a good job continue it...now i dont know what is the scale of good earning in america..but here i make around $800 a month and it is a very respectable job...So to cap it all i cant be a full time musician if i have to feed my family well...

Is it so hard in America as well....Does parents come so much in between you and your dreams??? Please share some views....

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I think many parents throughout history and in all countries and cultures have discouraged their kids from pursuing something they don't understand. If you are driven and passionate about making music, that's a feeling that someone who doesn't have those feelings can never fully understand. It baffles them why something like that would be so important. Usually parents simply want to be sure you are safe with a job and enough food and a place to live. Making a living as a full time musician comes at great sacrifice even for those who find success. You'll never get your fair share, or the appreciation you deserve. But if it's in your heart to need to do it, then you really have no choice. If you have your own family (kids or spouse of your own) you need to take care of that committment first. But if you are single and free, then in the end, it's your life. But be ready to work harder than you ever imagined including practicing, improving your writing and playing skills, and most importantly (and most often ignored) you must know who your audience is and how to entertain them enough to support your dreams through ticket sales, music sales and other merchandise sales. I've met a great deal of talented musicians who sing and play their instruments very well, but fail to entertain their audience and thus have no chance of success as artists. In the USA there are very limited opportunities for those who write only, most in Christian and County music. Other genres are most artists performing their own material or producers writing for a stable of artists, or large crews who co-write with existing artists (we have a couple of those folks who frequent them boards here and have found success).

The sad reality is that supply far outweighs demand. That means that even if you're truly good enough for success, there are many others similarly talented and too few opportunities. Those are the saddest truths. I've come across dozens of artists who are far superior to even the highest level professionals who can't get anywhere because there really just isn't any room. Add to that music theft via file sharing and there's not many dollars to go round.

So my advice is this. Keep your job. But every waking moment you aren't doing that job, make music. Improve. Write with others and learn many styles. Meet other musicians by supporting their shows and making lots of friends. You should attempt to make a new contact every single day. On days you have off, practice. Get feedback. When you think you're good enough and ready for audiences, go on auditions of any kind you can find. It doesn't matter if you get the gig, in fact that's not even the goal. The goal is to get feedback from true life decision makers. They are gatekeepers and in a commercial music career only their opinions matter. Not your friends, your girlfriend/boyfrieds, your family, your neighbor or yourself. When you start getting regular approval from gatekeepers, then you might be ready for the next stages... feel free to let me know when that happens.

In the meantime, welcome to our global music family. We love the Indian music categories in our awards (AR Rahman won 1 award and finished in 3rd and 5th for 2 others last year). In this day and age, you are competing against everyone, including world famous superstars. The commercial pie has shrunk way down.

That's so food for thought. I must head off to bed. I've got a hair cut in 7 hours. = )

Brian


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HI Utsav, & Welcome to JPF!

I think Every Artistic Person HAS to make some Choices along-the-way between a Career..and an Enjoyable Pastime.

I'm now about to be 65. I make, frankly, too-much at my Day Job to just up-&-quit it..even though I've already raised 2 very Musically-Talented Sons..(Both of whom no-longer play their instruments..& they, too, spend all their time at their "Other Professions") I content myself penning lyrics for Other Musicians to put the Music To...& I find this very-fulfilling, though not Money-Generating, in the least. (So-Far!)

I'll be retiring in another year or so from Clockmaking...& hope to learn an instrument. I'll continue writing songs...& singing them..& pursue my craft...even though I've never made a Career out of it.

I DID make 7 CDs along the way...which continue to generate Beer Money... (CDBaby/TampaStan) IF anyone had ever made me an OFFER that beat what I'd made in my Clockmaking Career, YEAH..I'd have "Gone Pro" & taken a Music Career route-to-success. So..content yourself with recording some of that music you'd prefer doing...and seeing if it Sells.

Nothing's wrong with rehearsing with your band a few nights a week...& playing locally another few nights a week..and saving the Remaining Few Nights for your family.

You can probably make $200 "Additional" in a month for your family IF you work hard-enough at your music. What THEN occurs is..you eventually start making MORE at your "Hobby" than "Your Job"..(if all works well)..and when it's not TOO hard...THEN..Make The Transition.

I'm not sure if "your family" includes feeding Your Parents? But IF you have a wife & kids already, it's BEST to put their interests ahead of your own...& work HARD at your Music on-the-side. (If you don't have kids...& are not feeding your parents...maybe your Wife can work...while you spend more time on your Music?)

I make between $400-600 a week as a Clockmaker...and about $20 a Month as a Singer-Songwriter..who no longer tries to play in public. I could probably earn $100 a week, maybe a bit more, if I got a Musician-Partner & we began playing some of the Redneck Bars around town. But I doubt during Our Recession here that live gigs are "Easy to Come-By" these days.

"Living Well is The Best Revenge" says a pretty good Aphorism.
When your "Part-Time" Music Career takes-off...take it! But..should it never "Fly"..be glad ya got the Safe Route.

Best Wishes, Good Luck, & a Big "Welcome Aboard" Guy-Hug,
Stan

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Thankyou for your views Brian and Stan....Its good to see this as a fact that music is one of the few things for which people around the globe can share open views without any prejudices....I will be looking forward to making some contributions and getting some suggestions from the guys at JPF....

I love american people as they are allowed 100% freedom of expression...Though i do not dislike my own country but there are some taboos that still need to be taken care of....

For your support i would like to write a song its an PUNJABI song i will translate it for you:)


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Na maen momin vich maseet aan
Na maen vich kufar diyan reet aan
Na maen paakaan vich paleet aan
Na maen moosa na pharaun.

Bulleh! ki jaana maen kaun

Na maen andar ved kitaab aan,
Na vich bhangaan na sharaab aan
Na vich rindaan masat kharaab aan
Na vich jaagan na vich saun.

Bulleh! ki jaana maen kaun.

Na vich shaadi na ghamnaaki
Na maen vich paleeti paaki
Na maen aabi na maen khaki
Na maen aatish na maen paun

Bulleh!, ki jaana maen kaun

Na maen arabi na lahori
Na maen hindi shehar nagauri
Na hindu na turak peshawri
Na maen rehnda vich nadaun

Bulla, ki jaana maen kaun

Na maen bheth mazhab da paaya
Ne maen aadam havva jaaya
Na maen apna naam dharaaya
Na vich baitthan na vich bhaun

Bulleh , ki jaana maen kaun

Avval aakhir aap nu jaana
Na koi dooja hor pehchaana
Maethon hor na koi siyaana
Bulla! ooh khadda hai kaun

Bulla, ki jaana maen kaun


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Its translation
Not a believer inside the mosque, am I
Nor a pagan disciple of false rites
Not the pure amongst the impure
Neither Moses, nor the Pharoh

Bulleh! to me, I am not known

Not in the holy Vedas, am I
Nor in opium, neither in wine
Not in the drunkard`s craze
Niether awake, nor in a sleeping daze

Bulleh! to me, I am not known

In happiness nor in sorrow, am I
Neither clean, nor a filthy mire
Not from water, nor from earth
Neither fire, nor from air, is my birth

Bulleh! to me, I am not known

Not an Arab, nor Lahori
Neither Hindi, nor Nagauri
Hindu, Turk (Muslim), nor Peshawari
Nor do I live in Nadaun

Bulleh! to me, I am not known

Secrets of religion, I have not known
From Adam and Eve, I am not born
I am not the name I assume
Not in stillness, nor on the move

Bulleh! to me, I am not known

I am the first, I am the last
None other, have I ever known
I am the wisest of them all
Bulleh! do I stand alone?

Last edited by UTSAV; 09/10/10 08:00 AM.
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UTSAV,

Hello, good to hear from you. I am Marc-Alan Barnette,or MAB. I live in Nashville Tennessee, which is one of the three main music centers of the United States. We deal primarily in country music but there are many other types of music here. I work with writers and artists as a professional coach and try to help people with information to make decisions on the exact subject you have here. I would like to Echo what Brian and Stan have said, but add a professional componant to it from people who are actually on the music charts and are involved in doing music professionally.

When you boil it all down there are VERY few people that make their entire income from simply music. Here, hit writers are also producers, managers, run companies, have other business interests in ADDITION to their music businesses. Several people I know who are legendary hit writers with hall of fame songs actually make more money from other revenue streams than they do from the actual music itself.

The artists who are "on the top of the charts" actually make the majority of their money from merchandising and live performance. The sale of CD's or downloads, actually account for a much smaller part of their income stream.

So "quitting your job just to do music" is nearly an impossibility in this day and age. Music has for the most part been made "free" in the eyes of most consumers. So in order to contend with that, the major companies have sought to cut into the artists income of merchandising and touring.

This makes it incredibly tough for the smaller "entry level" artists such as yourself and most of us here. the music industry is about building your own fan base and to do that in an environment where music is expected to be "free" is a real pickle.

I would suggest like Brian says, you build your skills, your writing, recording, performing, start small in local areas, and build as you go. Build a direct link with your friends and constantly expand a little at a time. But you will need to have another source of income (or many) in addition to anything you do musically. You must look at that as a secondary job until it becomes so successful that it replaces anything else you do.

It has always been this way with artistic people. Mozart died broke. Van Gogh sold two paintings in his lifetime. To his brother. Steven Foster, the "Father of American Songwriting", died with 37 cents in his pocket. The same can be said for most writers, artists, painters, poets, actors, etc. who have come before and are everywhere in society.

It is something you can always do, something you can always learn about and something you can always move forward on. But you have to keep it in perspective. In a recent contest here at JPF alone, there were over 50,000 CD's in submission. That is dozens of songs on each CD. That is hundreds and hundreds of thousands of songs. That is a small part of the millions of artists and billions of songs out there. So all of this has to be kept in perspective.

Enjoy your art. Do it to the best of your ability. Learn from friends, peers, face to face,and on places like here. There is an enormous amount of experience here. You are in a good place.

Good luck,

MAB

Last edited by Marc Barnette; 09/10/10 05:39 PM.
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PS:

I missed a part of your comments about wages. You say you make about $800 a month. If you were in America,a decent apartment or house for living would cost about $1000 a month. Throw in food, gas, transportation, if you had a family, or divorced with child support, insurance, taxes, then anything you might like for music, you are looking at nearly $3000 a month in expenses alone.

That is only my neck of the world. My aunt in New York City pays almost $3000 for her apartment a month. Some places are MUCH more expensive,some are less and each person's experience is going to be different. The average yearly income for Americans are around $25,000-$30,000 a year. That might sound like a lot in some places, but if you factor in everything from taxes, and cost of living,that can be swallowed up very quickly.

MAB

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UTSAV, I've made my living as a musician for the past 21 years.
I make roughly $900 a week. I'm not rich, but I'm comfortable.
I agree with the previous statements from Brian, Stan and MAB.I broke in in a different era, and frankly, I'm living off my rep and past glory. It would be much harder to break into the biz now. It's not impossible though. Heed the advice thats been given to you, but in the end it's YOUR life. Do what makes you happy.


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I'd have to agree. I'm sure you've heard the old saying "Don't quit your day job." It's good advice.

Making music is great, and if you're privately wealthy or are making enough from your music to make a career of it then you're one of the lucky ones. If you think you want to take a chance and hope that you can "make it" there is a good chance that you'll be disappointed.

I'd say play it safe. Keep your job and keep making music. If you start making lots of money or have a huge following then consider a career change. I've seen too many good musicans give up because they didn't have a safety net, finances were too hard and they had to find another job.

That's my two cents.

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Thanks guys thanks for the amazing insights....I think you are right about the day job...
@marc I mean life style in Indian cities is approximately the same or even more costlier but i live in a town and here $800/month is a very respectable salary...Though my uncle has an apartment rent of $4000 in Mumbai...but we are not here to discuss economy...

I also need to ask how is the Vanderbilt University..My brother just joined it...

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The salary thing was just my way of asking how much different as in a general level we live from America....In our school we were taught that what an American earns today on an average in 120 times more than what your parents are earning.. So i used to fantasize a lot about living there and making a lot of money as most Indians are still doing....but now that i got an ok ok job and just being an engineering passout.. i think i will come to visit some time but only as a tourist...not as a permanent resident with a green card smile

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Vanderbilt is one of the best universities in the world

its here in Nashville -where I live......its a very impressive place with excellant undergraduate and graduate schools...I go to that area alot for the outdoor cafe's and girl watching.......Its about 10 blocks from my place........I am sure your brother will love it there.......and you can always visit.......Nashville is called Music City USA....though we are mainly known for country music-every kind is being written and performed and recorded here..... Vanderbilt has a great School of Music...........What will his major be?

Tom

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He is doing MS in artificial intelligence.....Its a 4 yr integrated course basically for phd...but he plans to drop out after his MS and get a good job...:)

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Utsav.

We are all making much more than our parents and grandparents did. In the 60's the median income was $3000 a year. But all costs have gone up. Bread costs about $2 now, where it was about 30 cents thirty years ago.All costs in life go up. As well as do life expectancies. Up until about 30 years ago the life expectancy was about 65 years old. Now we live until the late 80's and 90's.

So it is all relative. Just for your information, one of the biggest bugaboos in this country are the outsourcing of jobs to countries like yours, India, China, etc. So it is very normal for a company to outsource and send those jobs oversees. So you would be expected to work for $1.00 a day in something an American would be paid $30 or $40.00 a day.

Nothing is fair, but it is all relative. It is difficult for anyone to make a lively hood on one thing in music.WE are all doing dozens of things.

MAB


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