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Monday 26th...I've now revised the vocals! Hope this is now fine. Thanks all for helping!!!

Thanks for the input guys...sound cancer now removed! LOL!

+++++++++++++++++

Hi friends ... just wrote this one with a friend, Joe Fielding. Hope you like it. Critique away please!

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=28328&songID=9052961

Plains of Hope
© Joe Fielding and Stan Loh 04-12-10
Verse 1 - Capo – 2nd Fret
The days are slow,
The nights are fast,
Outlook on life,
Is overcast.
If we’re the makers,
Let’s use our brains,
If we can do anything,
We could build plains …

Chorus
The Plains of Hope …
Plains where the dying,
Plains where the sick,
Plains of no crying,
Where there’s no hell,
No evil, no pain, no chains …

Verse 2
If we could take back time,
Fix what we broke,
Our skies will unwind,
The lies we spoke.
No one must give up.
No one say “never”.
In our quest for justice,
In our quest for hope …

Chorus
The Plains of Hope …
Plains where the dying,
Plains where the sick,
Plains of no crying,
Where there’s no hell,
No evil, no pain, no chains …
Bridge
For the sake of our children,
For the sake of the trees, bees, and geese,
For the sake of the poor people looking for peace …

Chorus
Build Plains of Hope …
Plains where the dying,
Plains where the sick,
Plains of no crying,
Where there’s no hell,
No evil, no pain, no chains …
Repeat Chorus

Last edited by Stan Loh; 04/26/10 11:02 PM.
Stan Loh #812400 04/23/10 04:47 AM
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This is excellent Stan. Love the guitar. The lyrics are fantastic and it has a very engaging melody. You and Joe wrote a nice one. My only nit is on production where you have a nice background guitar on the verses, but the chorus loses that nice sound. I do like the separated vocals on the chorus though.

Rick

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Rick ... your comments are noted. In the choruses I was trying to make it different from the verses. I guess I failed to make the grade on that! Not sure if we will redo it, but if we do, I will take note.

Thanks for the critique.

Stan

Stan Loh #812615 04/23/10 09:25 PM
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Hay Stan, I love working with you on songs. It's so much fun and you have a way of bringing the best out of a set of lyrics and bringing the melody and all around mood out with your fabulous singing and additions to the lyric. I truly enjoyed this project and can not wait to do more. Have a great weekend my dear friend. God bless you and your family and your new Little June Grand Baby.


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Sorry to break with the consensus regarding the guitars, but I found the heavily panned electric guitar playing countermelodies quite distracting in a way that didn't help the song. I'm not sure whether they were separately recorded tracks or it was just that the panning knob got moved around while mixing the final master, but this part started on the right side and then appeared to move to the left later and from one side to the other at various points in the song.

I listened to the recording on headphones. A decent quality set of Sennheiser's. So perhaps those who've listened to the song on regular speakers won't have noticed the same issue.

As for the song, I think it's a good 'un. Not quite my sort of thing, admittedly, but it's tuneful, well-structured and the vocals are very good. That's a case where the panning does work, by the way - on the backing vocals, I mean.


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Steve ... oh you burst my bubble! LOL! I thought the panning of the electric guitar was a good idea! Hahaha! What do you other guys think? It's easy enough to hard pan them all to one side.

Stan Loh #812715 04/24/10 03:15 AM
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Hi Stan,
I think the main guitar sounds like a nylon string just left of center sounds ok as far as I can tell.
But man the hard left guitar I don't know if it is out of tune or what but man it's rough to listen to.
There are some wanky notes too on the right.
Perhaps you were going for a discordant sound. I am not sure.
This is certainly heart felt. That comes through for sure.

Tom

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Hell;o Stan: ~~~
it;s good to see ya:)

smile..Ah---- Stan,,what A Beautiful way
to serenade me..i;m listening to this Piece''
and I Have my Eyes Closed..it's so peaceful
I luv the guitar..it;s subtle but very
endearing..you and Joe sing so heavenly
This is a tight Piece..Stan smile I luv reading the Lyrics
Excellent..



SEE you in a few;o
Shirl;o

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Originally Posted by Tom Franz
I think the main guitar sounds like a nylon string just left of center sounds ok as far as I can tell.
But man the hard left guitar I don't know if it is out of tune or what but man it's rough to listen to.
There are some wanky notes too on the right.
Perhaps you were going for a discordant sound. I am not sure.



Did you mean to write wonky notes there?

Whatever, I too felt that some of the countermelodic guitar parts contained duff or out-of-tune notes.



Steve Cooke
Stockton-on-Tees, UK
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Stan Loh #812749 04/24/10 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Stan Loh
Steve ... oh you burst my bubble! LOL! I thought the panning of the electric guitar was a good idea! Hahaha! What do you other guys think? It's easy enough to hard pan them all to one side.



Sorry about that. Just played it back again on my monitors - rather than the headphones I used last time - and it's not the panning that's the problem, unfortunately. It's the notes being played and/or the tuning.

Nothing wrong with the song, mind. Or the vocal. Or the central guitar rhythm guitar.

It's just the countermelodic stuff.


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Stan...this is a wonderful song....but I would re-work the guitars....this will be good with better music....my guitar playing sucks so I shouldn't be giving you advice on this...but this is what I'm hearing....your vocal is very good....you are on the right track....Bob

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Steve, Tom,

You are both right. It's the out of tune electric guitar! LOL! I have a $99 electric guitar that doesn't stay in tune. And is made worse because I had to capo it for this tune as well! Oooppps...I felt it too, but thought it might pass...obviously didn't. I will rework it with something else.

Shirley, Robert, ... thanks so much for the very encouraging words.

Stan Loh #812820 04/24/10 02:27 PM
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I can't add much. I really liked the lyric, the melody, the vocals and harmonies but, yep, I listened through a decent set of headphones and that Electric was certainly having some problem.
It actually sounded like the stuff I play smile smile

I'd forget the electric anyway. I think lead with an acoustic would be more effective.
I really liked the title and I would have liked to hear it in a more prominent place. More of a Hook if you will.


Last edited by Bill Robinson; 04/24/10 02:30 PM.

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I like your song, Stan. I'm not good at production, so I won't be able to help. But the song will sound better with a less wonky guitar sound, I'm sure.

What does wonky mean, anyway? I thought all electric guitars sounded the same?

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Hi Bill, Kevin ... thanks guys! Yes you are all right. thanks Steve, Tom, Robert, Shirley.

I have now taken the wonky guitar out!

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=28328&songID=9052961

Thanks!

Stan

Stan Loh #812829 04/24/10 02:56 PM
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Bingo!!! I love it this way. Great vocals!

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Hi Stan,

I didn't hear any wonky stuff. smile This sounds great vocally and musically. Nice message as well. Just a small nit in the chorus.

"The Plains of Hope …
Plains where the dying..."

What does this mean? Plains where the dying do what? Do you mean to say Plains OF the dying? And if so, why would you want that?

"Plains where the sick..."

Again, do you mean Plains OF the sick and why would you want that either?

"Plains of no crying,
Where there’s no hell,
No evil, no pain, no chains"

I get the last lines but I'm not sure what you're trying to say in the beginning. Did I miss something? Just some thoughts.

Ricki

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I really like the message of your song and I have a musical suggestion. The song is a minor modality throughout, I'm guessing around an Em. I think the chorus would get a big lift if it went to major on the chorus. So if the verse is in Em the chorus could be C///G////D///Em///. Just a thought and nice work on this one.

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Ricki ...

I pondered over the second and third lines of the chorus somewhat as I rewrote Joe's version. What I was trying to say was we, the human race, should build a Plains of Hope where the dying and sick could survive. In a poetic/lyrical way I think the chorus conveyed that message.

Thanks for your input.

Stan

Stan Loh #812966 04/24/10 11:31 PM
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Hey Stan:

The wonkiness has been removed I guess smile

This is a beaut - such a great feel to it. Nice work!

Only nit is that the lines "plains where the sick, plains where the dying" seem to have an unfinished thought.

Is a real nice song with great match between lyric and music....

Scott

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You know, as I was listening to this again, I thought it would sound really great with an acoustic piano accompaniment.

A nice big sound on that would give it an epic kind of feeling.


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Hi Stan. Good melody and message in the lyric. Has a nice atmospheric feel to it. I really like your vocal on this one.

Steve


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Pete ... the chorus is peppered with major chords (G/C and D)... it's the verse(s) that are on minor scale.

Yes, I did try to make the chorus soar a bit more, hence the wonky electric guitar (which is now removed) LOL!

Thanks so much for your thoughts. Much appreciated.

Stan

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Much better Stan. Wonky is only good with Willie Wonker and the Chocolate Factory. Fantastic song and performance.

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Scott ...

You got it right. The 2nd and 3rd lines of the chorus are left hanging.

Not sure how to change it without major surgery! LOL! Any ideas?

Stan

Stan Loh #813025 04/25/10 03:39 AM
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Stan..

Just saw Scott's nit. How about changing line 4 to complete 2 & 3.

Such as:

The Plains of Hope …
Plains where the dying,
Plains where the sick,
Are no longer crying,
Where there’s no hell,
No evil, no pain, no chains …

Just a quick thought.

Rick

Stan Loh #813026 04/25/10 03:39 AM
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Well since you asked

The Plains of Hope …
Plains where the dying,
Plains where the sick,
Plains of no crying,
Where there’s no hell,
No evil, no pain, no chains …

The Plains of Hope
Hope for the sick
Where there's no hell
Hope for the dying
No evil no pain no chains
Plains of no crying

I'd have to try to sing this with your current music but it was hard to do while your current vocal was on. A minor change might be needed to fit the meter/prosody exactly but this sounds close.
I would change the title to Plains of No Crying.

All JMHO of course. You can use this if you like if not toss it like an old shoe.

I do like the way you perform this. The acoustic has a little Spanish feel o it.



Hmmm I just saw Rick's idea. that's pretty good too. Maybe better.

Last edited by Bill Robinson; 04/25/10 03:43 AM.

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Steve ... great suggestion. Can you play the piano? Could you do it for us? Would be great to have strings too. But my skills are very limited as this board can tell you (all these years folks have pointed out that my musicianship is lacking!).

Cheers,

Stan

Stan Loh #813130 04/25/10 05:15 PM
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Rick, Bill, Scott,

I've now made the minor surgery (thanks to Rick for his economical solution) on the lyric. Thanks guys!

Here's the revised version.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=28328&songID=9052961

Thanks all for your valuable input!

Stan

Stan Loh #813254 04/26/10 02:34 AM
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Hi Stan
That simple change made a world of difference. Very good.
I liked the way your last line of the verse feeds into the chorus.
Good job.
I still think there are some minor meter or phrasing issues.

Verse 2 Line one (If we took back time) that one word might make a difference.
verse two line 5 ( stress seems to be on the wrong word?).

Usually I wouldn't mention these because they are minor but if this is a finished song I would address those.

Last edited by Bill Robinson; 04/26/10 02:42 AM.

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Thanks Bill...

I know what you are talking about in Line 1 or Verse 2. Hmmm I did purposely add the word "could" there to break up the monotony. It could easily come out. I will try it to see if it would be monotonous.

Somehow I can't hear where I am stressing the wrong word on Line 5. Could you please point out which word?

Thanks!

Stan

Stan Loh #813269 04/26/10 04:22 AM
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Hi Stan
It just seemed to me you were forcing the first three words
If We Could into the same number of notes as the first word of verse 1.
I see what you are trying to do and really there is not a thing wrong with it. I am just wearing the songwriter critiquer hat and need to look at every syllable, every note, in the song.
To be honest I think it is a great song. I love the way it's done. And love the message.

I've listened to the "No one must give up". line several times and every time I hear it different, LOL
It seems ok one time but not the next.
First I want the stress on "one" and "up" then I want it on "must" then I want in on "Give" so I obviously don't know what I want to hear. So leave it alone. smile


Last edited by Bill Robinson; 04/26/10 11:38 AM.

Bill
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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson didn't say it

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Hi Stan,

Well you've gotten some great advice & the song is certainly progressing.
I like what you're doing here.
Here's my small nit...

THIS LINE sounds too cluttered/rushed
[color:#3333FF]If we can do anything
[/color]
I think you should edit the word IF and just sing this..

[color:#009900]We can do anything[/color]

Calvin


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Calvin #813297 04/26/10 11:26 AM
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Stan....much better to me....no more wonky guitar...leave that in your closet...lol...Bob

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Randy ... I think you are right regarding the pitch on the chorus after the bridge.

I think I will have to resing this one after the other stuff are finally changed. Thanks for your very keen ears!

Stan

Stan Loh #813430 04/26/10 11:03 PM
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Hello all ... I've now re-sung the song. Think I fixed most of the problems. Please let me know if this is now better than before.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=28328&songID=9052961

Thanks!!!!

Stan

Last edited by Stan Loh; 04/26/10 11:04 PM.
Stan Loh #813437 04/26/10 11:24 PM
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Stan
Sounds good. I'm not sure you need to do anything else.
You have addressed all the issues raised.
Good song and a good message.


Bill
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http://www.dreamqueststudio.com
Skype; bill.robinson12

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." --Thomas Jefferson didn't say it

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PERFECT TO MY EARS STAN !!
NICE JOB


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Thank you Bill, Dan, Tom, Shirley, Scott, Pete, Calvin, Randy, Robert, Ricki, Steve, Kevin, Stevie, and most of all Joe!

This has been a rewarding experience.

Stan

Stan Loh #813481 04/27/10 09:32 AM
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Randy ... what more can I say...oh, let's say I went to school (musically) at JPF, and I had very good teachers! Thanks guys!

Stan Loh #813578 04/27/10 06:11 PM
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Hi Stan, I didn't get to hear the first one, but I did enjoy this version...very pretty lyrics and sound..love the vocals on it too..very nice!!!!

Kimberly


*Always open to collaborations on my lyrics.. with singers and musicians, but PLEASE contact me before putting work into one--in case someone else has it..thanks!!**
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Thank you Kimberley! Your opinion lifts me!

Stan


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