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Just read a great blog post that linked to a writer's blog post. And it reminded me of us songwriters:

"Are you writing as a hobby, profession, or business? Your answer makes all the difference in the world.

Self gratification comes from a hobby.
Wages come from a profession.
Profit comes from a business.

It's your choice. One must understand the ramifications of the choices. Don't believe for a moment that you can do one and get paid as the other. It really doesn't work that way. No matter what Tooth Ferry you believe in."

I think it's an interesting take. I'm guilty of this. I'm guilty of setting goals a business would have but treating the whole thing like a hobby. I think I need to be more honest with myself.

So which is music for you? Hobby, Profession, or Business?





Richard MacLemale
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Hobby, but if by some odd chance it ever turns into something more than that, wonderful.

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Edit:

Oh man, sorry again Tampa Folks! I sometimes look in the "What's Going On" box at the left, and click on whatever at that time and read the posts and reply if I have a thought. Since I already used my fingers to type some, please allow me to keep my thoughts here....If you rather not have an outsider, smile I'll understand, and remove the following. Thanks either way.
End Edit.


Buddy Holcombe and I did do all three and got paid for all three! (although not enough to be on Trump's Celebrity Apprentice), who my son works for now.

However, as a business, (D&H Publishing and D&H Records), we showed losses for the years in business. We still greatly enjoyed our songwriting as a hobby would define, and we made some wages, as a professional as above is defined.

So, we wrote as a hobby at first, which led to a profession, which led to a business, while remaining in all three.

The best times for Buddy and me, were when just writing and creating something we called Daubert & Holcombe Music. Those proud times were much more than the three titles combined though. We were writing for music's sake in those moments, which was pure love of music, life, people and places, real and imagined. Later, we would do this or that with whatever material we could work with for whatever leads or films we did. (just to short films).

Who says you can't do one and except to be paid for another?! That may be their experience. But no one should dictate how every one else should go about their craft just because they feel a certain way from the events of their music adventures. Haven't you heard,,,,we're songwriters!!! Many do it your selfers!

That's all in the past though.

I would still like to play and write for any reason, even if one title was "just for the hell of it"! But it would be more than a hobby even if there were NO wage or business thoughts to it. It would be like making it big, while just at the piano. Believe me.

Johnny

Last edited by Johnny Daubert; 03/14/10 06:26 AM.

Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





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Johnny,

I think maybe you're misunderstanding what the blogger actually meant. Yes, you can write songs as a hobby, and you might actually end up selling your music a bit. I think the blogger's point was that if you write as a hobby and expect to make a living treating it as a hobby, you won't.

If I wanted to make a living as a songwriter, I couldn't write whatever I felt like - I'd have to write stuff likely to sell. That's today's reality. That's why so many people are disappointed after joining Taxi - they don't get that the companies buying music don't give a damn about their "art." They just want a specific type of song that will help their commercial, or their movie, or whatever.

And definitely keep posting in our area - the more the merrier!

Q,

That's the blogger's point - if you treat it like a hobby, it's never ever going to turn into anything else. I don't think there's anything whatsoever wrong with it being a hobby. It's definitely a hobby to me.







Richard MacLemale
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Let's see - if it was a profession, I would be receiving a salary, if it was a business, I would be making a profit. Therefore it is a hobby.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


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For lack of a better word, it's a hobbscession. grin

Scott

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Hobby!

But songwriting is serious business to me nevertheless. I may not be writing for money, but I'm still trying to write keepers.

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Singer /Song Writer started out as a hobby, slowly became my profession, and is now transforming into a business. The business end of this is a lot of work and when it's all said and done the three actually intertwine as it becomes my whole life!


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There's no doubt I write as a hobby because I write for myself first and pretty much always will. I don't see my writing style changing to move songs.

I wasn't disappointed with TAXI because you do have to produce what is requested - I realized after giving it a short go there that it wasn't the place for me and the way I want to write.

I'm stubborn and I'd much rather write as a hobby and write what I want. There are more than enough people who can contribute to the folks who want specific type songs - I kind of envy those writers and kind of don't.

I do believe that if you are true to your creative vision, good things will happen. They may happen after you're dead but....

Steve


Steve Vaclavik

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Long Grass And The Tall Trees Available now:

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Steve, you did Taxi? I don't think I knew that. And if I did I forgot. I'll have to ask you a bunch of questions about it next time I see you.

I'm a hobbyist, definitely. I'll probably put my next CD online for free. I'm already not making any money so it can't get any worse. I'm also thinking about not doing any more gigs. Yup, just sit at home and record songs, put them online for free, and get nice emails from people all over the place. Right now that sounds very appealing to me. No more playing in front of small crowds who don't give a crap, no more hawking my CD like some door to door salesman.

I could probably find a nice open mic or two each month to play at to satisfy my desire to play in front of people. Maybe even a singer/songwriter showcase, 4 times a year or something.

Part of me thinks that's a great idea because right now music is depressing me. If it's not fun, what the hell am I doing? And part of me thinks of all that stuff above as "giving up." Giving up what? I already chose a career. I make enough money. I'm never going to be a pro musician. I don't even want to be one.

I think for some of us hobbyists we live too long with this dream in our head, long past the time when it can actually happen. This is not to say that someone might not hear one of my free songs online and contact me about putting it in a commercial. But it does mean that, much like a house cat kills a mouse but doesn't know what to do with it, we have these old ideas engraved in our brains from when we were 16 playing air guitar in front of the mirror, and they are extremely hard to get rid of. I HAVE to play better gigs in front of more people. Why? Because then I'll be happy. Why? Because I'll make more money. I don't need the money. Because I'll have more applause. AHA! Maybe the secret is that what we REALLY want is for people to acknowledge that we can make great music. So... it's about EGO, then?

This gets into some very very deep stuff that has stumped me for most of my adult life. I don't need a manager, I need a therapist. smile

But as you can see, my own problems are caused by the fact that music is my hobby but for some reason I keep trying to make it a business even though I don't really want to. Or something.

Now I've really confused myself.


Richard MacLemale
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You stop dreamin' - you stop livin'

It's definitely an EGO thing - just like in other things we do throughout life, we need justification that we're doing something of value. With gigs with few audience members and long time periods of making no headway, that justification is a lot harder to come by making music.

You need a manager and a therapist - some act as both I hear....I could use the same. I'm beginning to believe that these thoughts and issues are what led a lot of artists into drinking and drugs....

Steve


Steve Vaclavik

http://www.stevevaclaviktwang.com
http://www.myspace.com/stevevaclavik

Long Grass And The Tall Trees Available now:

http://cdbaby.com/cd/stevevaclavik

'You probably don't like what I'm saying, or the way that it's been said. But my only goal has been to awaken some thoughts in your head.'
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I don't know, Steve...I'd argue that, in the context of this discussion, dreams are at best irrelevant, and likely counter-productive. As a hobbyist, I find personal and artistic growth to be imperative. Dreams, though, not so much. I think there's a lot of merit in Richard's concept of writing & recording as a solely artistic endeavor, and eschewing the crappy, unrewarding gigs. Then again, the other side of that coin is that playing crappy gigs with friends is kinda fun.

Dreams, however, belong to the young...and rightly so. When more sand resides in the bottom of the hourglass than in the top, living well, learning, growing, comfort... I think those are the key elements. I'll cede dreams to those who haven't taken their lumps yet. And I'll raise my glass to the lucky few who manage to meld the Muse with monetary success, while still retaining some semblance of humanity. (Hope you appreciate my alliterative scribbling...I hate to forgo an artistic opportunity )

As usual, nice thread, Richard.

Best,

Mike

Last edited by Mike Worrall; 03/17/10 04:55 PM.
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I'm trying to make a profession of it, but so far with little success. That may partly be because I want it on my own terms.

For example, I get offered a lot of opportunities to play gigs. I turn down pretty much all of them, partly because I don't like performing live solo and consequently don't practice towards that goal, and partly because most of the people who contact me (like the one I just turned down 20 minutes ago) think Stone Marmot is a real live band and not four cartoon characters. I have no intention on starting a band.

I continually have people also tell me my songs are best suited for Broadway-type shows and plays. I haven't made any real efforts breaking into those markets. I have been a TAXI member for a number of years, but they tend to be looking for more general stuff for TV and movies. My songs tend to be too specific and stylized.



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I broke even on my PA by using it, so that's about as much as I can ask in this market, doing this part time.

There are so many more way to achieve poverty than by using your artistic passion to do so.

I prefer to approach music from the a hobby perspective to maintain my enjoyment level in it.


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