JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Why is it so hard to write a happy - jolly song?

Hi Roy

I shot it all alone but my wife did the editing with my over the shoulder assistance.

Thanks!
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Marc makes a GREAT point it's not about necessarily being a HAPPY song like - la la la I love life

Just one that is not such a huge downer. Touching, universal, interesting, unique, reflective what have you....

I'm glad you liked my video & tune

Here is a completely different example of a sadder down song, an opposite.
ONLY sometimes when people feel HOPELESS they can find comfort in knowing that they are DEFINITELY NOT ALONE

That makes a GREAT impact as well.

This song "Middle Of Nothing" does exactly that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbsiOSXt30c

It simply asks "where will I be tomorrow"

"No leads to follow" - just what a unknown songwriter feels like almost everyday. If they tell you differently they are lying flat out.

Sam:

I think what you say is so true…

‘Maybe it's because you have to try so hard to write a happy tune, and it ends up looking like it's forced’

It’s like a smile painted on my face.

Thanks for adding to the post

God Bless Roy


Mike:

Thanks for coming back.

‘I shot it all alone but my wife did the editing with my over the shoulder assistance’.

Don’t try and take away her glory, hehe.

Tell her from me that she is very good at the editing. The cuts were spot on.
Does she do this for a living?

I had a listen / look at the other song.

Real good song/video and another good editing job.

I must be a lying songwriter then Mike, because I never feel that way.
That doesn’t stop me feeling the song though. I think that most songwriters are good at feeling others pain.

If you get a chance, you and the wife have a mosey over and check out some of my videos.

http://www.royandhelen.com

Excuse my homemade looking site, that’s how I like it.

Thanks again for adding to the topic

God Bless Roy

Thanks Roy

I will tell her. No she does not do it for a living that was the first time she ever did it. She is very gifted as she makes amazing dolls & figures and just excels at anything she puts her mind and heart too.

I did the second one by myself.

I must be a lying songwriter then Mike, because I never feel that way.

I understand, about sharing the pain of others, but as a direct response to what I meant - Do you have somewhere to submit your work to?
Most songwriters just have NO solid solicitation chances therefore NEVER get a chance at having a song cut, never mind a hit.

I'll check out your videos and come back

Hello guys,

As you may or may not know, I don't really post much of my songs or promotional material here because my songs are on other sites and not really relevant to our discussions. I am more interested in offering suggestions for those of you who might be able to benefit rather than blowing any of my own horns. And there is far more than enough music out there anyway. My stuff is availible in a number of places.

But in the interest of this particular discussion, I thought I would offer an example of how I dealt with the subject. A few years ago, several friend's of mine had Fathers diagnosed and die of Cancer. Also another friend of mine personally contracted Cancer and was trying to comfort his family.

In an attempt to help them, I thought of my own Father, who was one of my best friends but passed away from Heart disease in 1998. He was a big fan of Mark Twain and always quoted some passages from a book called "Letter's from the Earth." I used it and some other basic information, along with poetic liscense to construct a story about death. the point being that many people, myself included, feel that death is not the end, but the "Beginning" of another existance.

It is my example of what we are talking about here, taking a somber subject yet using a "twist" in the subject, making death not seem so final. It seemed to help them. I hope it helps explain what I am talking about. For those of you interested, it is on my My Space page. The song is called "The Beginning."
I hope it helps.

www.myspace.com/marcalanbarnette

"If you're happy and you know it clap your hands"!

Wish I wrote that! Just think if any one of you did, and people knew it. Everywhere you would go, people would be singing, smiling, and clapping their hands!

A songwriters dream! You got em! Just would then need to go everywhere in the world, and over time,,,,Presto! World Peace!
Everybody happy and showing it!

ha!

Roy,
Paul Simon comes to mind. He said " gives us those nice bright colors/ gives us the greens of summer/ makes you think all the world's a sunny day oh yeah".

Who can do that? The Candy Man can.

HAVE FUN,
John

It takes a certain kind of commitment to accept happiness.

Hi Again Roy!

I've reflected a bit Further on "Happy Songs". I find for me, it's easier to write "Funny" Songs...than "Happy" Ones.

(That bit of a Parody of a Happy Song you've already Inspired is sorta "Exhibit 'A'"..heh!)

I think Current "Sensibility" makes us a bit Suspicious of Anything TOO "Happy". (For Exhibit 'A' of that, Google "I Love a Flower Girl" by The Cowsills. It has that "DATED" quality to it...& even though there's the Line "And she has made me Happy..Happy..HAPPY...", it feels kinda Ancient, maybe even Insincere these days.

MAYBE we've all come too-far to believe in Walt Disney's "When you wish upon a Star..Your Dreams Come True"...

I was reflectin' on that yesterday when I heard an already gettin'-old Very-Successful Pop Song with "I'm a loser Baby..So why don't ya kill me" in the Chorus.

I'll confess, it was SO Sardonic, it DID make me Laugh!

Maybe..for a While Longer, we've gotta settle for "Funny" insteada "Happy" in our Songs That Sell.

Back to my Think Tank...

Best Wishes,
Stan

Mike:
Hi. I actually thought that the first video was slightly better edited than the 2nd. I hope I don’t start a domestic..

NO I don’t actually submit my work yet although I am with Taxi, but have given up on them.

That’s not a knock on taxi, I just can’t write to suit them and I am ok with that.

At the end of the day, I love my songs, when finished, and I believe that when I think they are finished, they are.

Getting a song cut, is I suspect the final result that most songwriters want. Sure I would love that and will try if I can. I am always trying.
I did think about dropping 50,000 copies from a crop duster over Nashville and see what happens hehe. Would one turn up trumps. Ummmm I wonder

Thanks again for joining in

God Bless Roy
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Marc:

Had a listen to you song Marc and I see what you mean.

As always your thoughts are useful and valid.

I loved it by the way.

Also enjoyed your videos very much.

God Bless Roy
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John Daubert:

"If you're happy and you know it clap your hands"!

Of course, what a great happy song. Just like you, I would love to be able to say ‘I Wrote That’ arhhhhhhh

Thanks for joining God Bless Roy
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John Hoffman:

‘The Candy Man Can’

another one

Thanks for joining God Bless Roy
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Mark:

'It takes a certain kind of commitment to accept happiness'.

A person of few words. Good input though

Thanks for joining God Bless Roy
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Stan:

As usual some great thoughts on the subject.

‘MAYBE we've all come too-far to believe in Walt Disney's "When you wish upon a Star..Your Dreams Come True"...

I still believe… I do … I do…

Thanks for joining God Bless Roy

Can't speak for others - but, for me, it might be because when I'm feeling really happy, the last thing I want to do is figure out why so that I can write a song about it.

I might want to sing a song or whistle one. But not write one.

On the other hand, feeling sad or blue does seem to make me introspective - maybe so that I can figure out why and get out from underneath it.

Songwriting is therapy - and happy folks don't need therapy

The smart thing to do, I reckon, is to remember that feeling when you're really happy and write about it later, when the feeling has passed!

Problem with that, as Sam mentioned, is that it might seem forced - coming after the fact.

Scott

Haven't written a true happy jolly song, as even the positive ones I have give some counter thoughts as to why to try to be jolly!

But, in any case, "Get Busy With It"!
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=2300745

Scott:

Thanks for adding to this posting.

Your thoughts and takes are always appreciated.

Yeh, I can whistle happily, but always end up drifting into a cover HAPPY song. hehe

‘Song writing is therapy - and happy folks don't need therapy’

Good point.

Thanks again and God Bless Roy
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John Daubert:

I listened to your song and found it to be quite uplifting.

Thanks for sharing

I liked it a lot.

Thanks and God Bless Roy

Just thought that I should add a Happy / Fun song that Helen (my wife) wrote over 20 years ago. Sure it is a children’s fun song and as the singers are only very young and it was their first and probably only time in the studio the singing may not be on par. But I love it and so does she.

I think this may have been heard by a few here before, but maybe some new listeners will enjoy.

Out of interest this is the song that made me stop using the taxi forum.
I will expand on that just a little bit.
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I had been a member for just a couple of weeks, (new kid on the block) and I posted this song on their forum, more as a lift for Helen than anything else.
At 70 years plus old, anything is good for her.

Below is what was said by the first person that listened to it.
------------------------- quote ---------------------------

Yeah there is a market for this. Creepy vinyl from the 80s, seriously? What made you do this?
This is creepy? Who made the music? What are these ugly kids even saying?
Are they being attacked by birds because this is a song from a dusty record at a local goodwill?
How much candy did you pay them?

I have no doubt that this made more money then I ever will with music
---------------------------- end quote ------------------------

I actually at the time thought it was nasty and many here in a previous posting when I mentioned it thought the same.

I did ask on the posting in Taxi if anyone would come in to maybe defend me and Helen, but alas not 1 soul spoke.

That’s when I left the forum never to return.

Don’t get me wrong folks, I don’t mind criticism when positive, but nastiness NO.

I doubt that would ever happen on JPF as people here step in an speak out.
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Anyway that’s my story and maybe the poster was right..lol

So moving away from it, as I want to stick to the topic of the post. Here is Helen’s song. If you agree with the poster, who said the above, please keep it to yourself (I want to be happy hehe).

I know the song is dated and maybe not of the highest quality, but we love it.

‘Rockin’ Round The Zoo’ for the children

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8163878

God Bless To all Roy and Helen

Roy,

That is very unfortunate. As sort of a "spokesman of sorts for my industry" let me say that I hate that you got that review. That person should never be allowed to critique songs.

One of the things that all people who go for reviews or critiques or help to some of these organizations need to remember is that many of the people doing the reviewing are often bitter, frustrated writers and artists on their own (successful one's seldom have the time or the interest in helping people outside of their circle of friends. They are too busy looking for their own interests.) But far too many let their own biases and frustrations get in the way of constructively helping people.

Also it is very difficult to get many of you to understand the volume of songs, letters, e-mails, phone calls, that come in all the time, and all too many of them are angry, frustrated, nasty also.

We have all seen threads on these pages that get testy, frustrated and devalue into personal attacks and insulting tones. We have all felt insulted and wanted to "Take our ball and bat and go home." That is the way it is any time you are dealing with creative endevors. Everyone has their opinions just like everyone has another part of the body on the lower regions.

So try never to take one reviewer, one opinion, one song, one show, one opportunity that doesn't pan out, too much to heart. Use it to make you better. Nothing motivates a writer like being pissed off if it forces them to be a better writer. In the end that might have been one of the best things you ever got. Remember, they told Elvis to "go back to driving a truck."

I'm sorry you got that and wish people from "my side of the desk" would have a little more tact, common sense and sympathy for their fellow writers and artists.

It is like I told one of my friends who was a hit writer one time. We were in a meeting with some hit writers and publishers at NSAI. Everyone was discussing how we could make NSAI better and more inclusive for the members. There were a lot of complaints like the one you have here.

The hit writer asked "Why are we doing this? Are their any real writers out there that really deserve help?"

The leader of the meeting turned to me.

"Well let's talk to someone who is out there in the field. (I was doing a ton of workshops around the US and Canada at the time)Marc?"

I said, "We'll I think there are some really good writers out there, and everyone needs to be able to go for their dream. Are their any hits? I don't know. But somebody helped you once."

Many of my friends and contemporaries forget where they come from. I don't.

MAB

That reviewing style sounds extremely familiar to me...Roy, I have a strong feeling that person is someone who was soon banned from those forums...kind of a professional troll. Did the person happen to have just two initials for a name?

Well,
Writing Happy Songs can be boring and not pitchable in most instances. And if they are they may be passed on or if recorded may bomb.

Look at it this way. You are driving along, humming a happy tune, not paying too much attention and suddenly you drive off a cliff. So you don't want to be surprised by that cliff so you put it right in front of you, hence more realistic songs about real life.

You all just reminded me about one of my songs I may include on the Web Site if and when My Publisher gets around to it. I will post it when it happens.

Marc:

Thanks for your reply and considerate remarks.

I do agree with you that ‘Everyone has their opinions just like everyone has another part of the body on the lower regions’.

And I was well pissed off at the time. However what did P??s me off the most was that I was on the forum in the belief that other members would help to nurture each other to a degree and NOT ONE came in to say ‘wait a minute’, ‘that’s a bit harsh’ etc.

I felt and was isolated and not a part of the IN CROWD.

I did by the way PM the moderator and asked if this was normal and never got a reply, so I assumed this was OK behaviour.

I can tell from your posting Marc that you line below is true.

‘Many of my friends and contemporaries forget where they come from. I don't.’

You do care and thanks for that.

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Anyway, I have moved on now and am quite happy here. I know there are Taxi members here and I am not knocking Taxi or the 1000’s of good members, just relaying an experience.

I have no time in my life for bitterness. Good title there if anyone wants it.

Anyway thanks for your reply Marc and God Bless.

’Happy Days Are Here Again’.
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Mark:

Thanks for your input. I would not give names out Mark, as that only propagates The nastiness.

I know that a person giving out comments like that would soon be shifted on JPF.

Anyway thanks for joining in

God Bless Roy and Helen

True enough. But if it WAS someone with just lowercase initials, then you were unfortunate enough to lose interest in TAXI due to someone who was booted inside of a week or so for being consistently and unfairly harsh. That's too bad!

Roy
For the type song it is I think it was enjoyable. The vocals were a little difficult to understand in some parts, partly the mix and the partly the English accent. I assume this was done in the UK. The kids made no effort to "Americanize" their vocal so any idiot that can't hear past that is just that. an idiot.
I'm not sure when it was done but I sure could see it being performed on Sesame street or some other children's show with all the kids in costume.

But that is JMHO. As Marc said Critiques are always one persons opinion and just that, an opinion.
The person that gave you that review was just a nasty person so I wouldn't pay any attention to it.
I had the same type experience on Garageband a few years ago. It didn't bother me that I got a bad review, it bothered me that it was so nasty. And like you no one spoke out about it.
Actually the review was correct, My song wasn't that good. I know that now but the Nastiness was what drove me away from Garageband.

Ray:

You made some very good points and as always your input is worthwhile.

Hey, You have a Publisher… WOW, that makes me happy for you.

And I mean that.

Thanks for joining in and God Bless Roy and Helen.


Mark:
I didn’t abandon Taxi after that, just stop using the forum.
I have submitted quite a few songs and to date no joy. That’s OK with me because I do understand the reasons. I do feel that the type of songs that I write do not suit the general requests, but hey, nothing is perfect.

God Bless Roy and Helen

Bill:

Thanks for taking the time to listen and to join in.

The song was written 20 years ago and recorded on an Atari..if anyone remembers.

No internet or collabs, just went to a studio, hummed a tune and said lets do it.

Sorry to hear that you had a similar experience.

Never heard of Garageband before. I will have a look if they still exist.

Anyway thanks again and God Bless Roy and Helen

Roy,

You're welcome. The entire reason I have a job is because of the Taxi's, Song U, NSAI, seminars, workshops, books, DVD's, and other web sites, don't have the nurturing aspect. They are too big to be able to do that. We have to find that elsewhere. Within each other. That is why I do things one on one or in very small groups. It gets them more direct help, and gives me a sense I am actually doing something that makes sense and works.

My Father gave me my role model. But something he told me once stuck with me throughout my life. I will pass it on to you.

"Find out what you love to do,
then figure out how to make it pay you."

That always stuck with me. My Father was an entrepeneur. He invented businesses out of nothing. he was a Gospel singer with his own televsion show in the 50-60's. He worked for Lockeed aircraft and was on a design team for the mechanical arm that was on the Luna Rover. He put himself through archetecture school and built apartments. He founded the concept of the "convenient store" in the south, Alabama, Mississippi and Tennessee. He took flying lessons so he could expand businesses, and led the "Resturant franchising business" movement in the 60's and 70's. And after all that, figured out he had a love for antique and collector cars. That is what he did until the day he died, bought, sold, traded, restored old rusted pieces of junk and returned them to beautiful running pieces of art.
His biggest problem was staying focused and interested in anything and getting past himself. For every business he would have going, one would do great, the other eight, well, not so well. That and being married 8 times, did a lot on his bottom line.
But he always did what he loved.

That is what I would hope for all of you.

Enjoy talking to all of you.

El Mabbo, the protector of women's virginities everywhere.

Lookheed Aircraft,
Marc you reminded me of a story I heard when I was going thru a school on the Willie Victor Aircraft the Navy used as a Barrier to scan for any Soviet Missles coming over the Pole and other places.

It seems this Lookheed Engineer invented a gadget, a joke. He built this box and put a sign on it, don't turn on this switch and set it in a conspictious place. Finally some guys took a chance, used a broom handle and flipped the switch and got out of the way.

The box had a door that opened up, a little arm came out, turned the switch off and went back in the box and closed the door. So humor is everywhere. Even in the upper etchelions.

Marc:

Thanks for your added views, appreciated.

Your Father sounds fascinating.

God Bless Roy

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Ray:

Nice story. I want one of those boxes.

God Bless Roy

I don't have any problem writing a happy song or a sad one or one in between, but I NEVER EVER TRY TO WRITE ONE BY FORCE, if they don't come from my heart I won't write em

Hi Gary:

Thanks for joining in and adding your take on things.

God Bless Roy

ithink its because sadness tends to bring more meaningful emotions to people whereas happiness is just a word on its own.

ithink its because sadness tends to bring more meaningful emotions to people whereas happiness is just a word on its own.

jamescooper:

Thanks for you input. Why is happyness just a word?

Surly it's also an emotional reaction to an event.

God Bless Roy

A thought. (Yes, another one. Hey, it's a new year.) It's not so much that it's hard to *write* a happyhappyjoyjoy song--I've done one or two myself--but I have to wonder what's the point. People want to listen to things they can relate to--and I'm not sure many people can relate to happiness.

Joe

"Happy happy joy joy" Is that an actual line from a song? Like is there a song called "The Happy Happy Joy Joy Song"? If not there should be. Joe, get out your guitar man!

No, "happyhappyjoyjoy" is a line from The Ren & Stimpy Show. As far as I know, it's never been used in a song.

Joe

"Happy happy joy joy"

I am sure it would be a great song. Sounds a bit Japanese to me,
Don't know why though.

Please someone do it. I'm not happy enough yet. HeHe

"Happy, Happy Joy Joy," WAS the whole song from the Ren and Stempy show. And yes, it is copyritten. Told you everything's been done. By the way. In a minute and 8 seconds, those were the whole lyrics. If you have kids, you even learn about the goofy songs.

MAB

Marc, out of curiosity.

I someone posted the lyrics to "Happy, Happy Joy Joy,"
How would you review it.

Or is it more of a catch-phrase than a song.

It must have made someone a heap of cash hehe.

God Bless Roy