JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Let's talk about instrumentals.

We can keep this topic pretty broad but instrumentals should be the focus point.

For starters, you could talk about how you personally feel about instrumentals, your perception of how others feel, why they are not often played on the radio or performed anymore, where they are still played, your thoughts of the possibility of instrumentals becoming popular again, what the most popular instrumentals have in common etc. Any relevant thoughts about instrumentals are welcome.

From a professional singer's perspective, they don't mean anything.

MAB

From a composer's perspective, they mean everything.

John

I love instrumentals, always have. John Heinrich and I are about half way through with an album of instrumentals tentatively called Strawberry Cove. It is soft jazz, pop, light funk with a sprinkling of new age. We hope to have it finished before Christmas.

Popular music has changed with the dominance of television. Gradually, celebrities have driven popular music. The most personal relationship a listener can have with a musical artist is one that involves that artist's voice, so the best way to sell a celebrity is to have a recognizable voice with which they can communicate to the listener. I predict that more and more it will be the unusual, very recognizable voice that will begin to dominate. The eye candy will recede and there will be a "Susan Boyle effect" where it is the very recognizable person with the very recognizable voice that ascends.

That, I believe, is why instrumentals have been on the wane in pop music.

The instrumental as a commodity still does quite well even sans its connection to popular music. Heck, pop music is making less and less money anyway. It is licensing, filmscore, tv score, ads, and the like that keep composers and producers pumping out the voiceless vibes.

Will instrumentals become popular again? I think in some ways they are more popular now than ever before. There are dedicated channels on satellite and cable for instrumental music. There are dedicated channels on earth based radio as well. It is mainstream popular music itself that threw the adult out with the bathwater. Through compartmentalization, the breakup of radio into musical genres, the pop artists have lost some of the crossover they used to get when radio playlists would include different styles. Pop listeners just listen to pop, bluegrassers just listen to bluegrass. But even that is "over the hump" with many folks who create their own mix of music on their PLD's.

So, my quest for Strawberry Cove is to have a recognizable sound while exploring various forms and arrangement techniques. When we finish and start promoting it, we'll keep ya posted.

Good thread, keep 'em coming!

Mike

Wow! That's a pretty general opinion. I suspect there has been at least one professional singer that has heard an instrumental piece and wanted to sing, or at least hum, along with it. Heck...that professional singer might have even gone as far as writing lyrics to sing!

Marc,

I've read many of your posts. I find, from a commercial, "pop" music perspective, your advice is right on the money (emphasize money).

Yes, we all love money. However, if music only meant money to me, I would have given up composing long ago. Commercial success (fame and money) is a much sought after goal in our profession, but not the primary reason many of us compose.

I compose because it's what I love doing most in life. I would be doing it regardless of the fame game and/or monetary gain. It's who I am.

Instrumental music allows me to step far out of the formulated box. Anything goes in instrumental music. We're creating moods. It doesn't have to tell a story; only arouse emotion in the listener.

Instrumental music to me is freedom. Freedom to compose straight from the heart, within any structure, in any genre, and to push the harmonic and melodic elements through the roof.

I also love writing songs, but it's a totally different journey. I can't envision a musical life without both.

Best, John

John,

Didn't mean any offense. I was kind of making a joke. As a singer, instrumentals don't mean anything. They don't have any vocals. And you know what egotists we singers are.
I am with you and never write songs for trends or to nessasarily make money. I write songs to touch lives and interact with a community I am involved with. For the most part my writing involved songwriting lessons for others to interject process into their writing.
Getting cuts and making money is a byproduct we sometimes get out of writing but it is never the principal reason to write. So I do agree with you on the reasons and purposes for music and we do need both.
But for the purpose on this thread, instrumentals with no vocals don't represent me with a chance to do my thing. If you heard my intrumentals that I play on my guitar, without my vocals, you would be making one request. The Sounds of Silence.

MAB

I just wanted to add...

I've heard many songs here that step out of the formulated box, be that in length, lyrical content, music, etc. Will they become commercially successful? Probably not. But they can still find a selective audience.

Not all music is destined for a mass audience.

I personally place more respect on the artistic merits of a song rather than the commercial success. Too bad the Industry is so "closed" mind to this. They could be surprised by the number of listeners that are eager for something that goes beyond the formulated box.

Best, John

John,

I also agree. But I do believe in the old axiom "The customer is always right." So I personally work to find ways to best service customers. The rest is up to fate. Can't really control that one.

MAB

You didn't offend me at all Marc. Just wanted to add the perspective from a composer.

I totally agree with all your advice about achieving success in the music business. As I stated before; you're right on the money.

Best, John

Of course there are many customers, with many interests. I'm satisfied with just a small percentage of the custemers. I was never a greedy man.

I'm sure most (maybe all) of my TV background music goes unnoticed, but then it's the kind of thing no one notices until it's gone.

Best, John

Steve

NEVEAH!!!!! Just kidding. I would like to add my usual caveat, (I love that word) that I like to do from time to time. One of the problems I have with a lot of instrumentals, particularly jazz is the lack of a central theme. Many jazz pieces to me are simply extended solos.

Having said so I remembered a group I used to like a lot and that was a band called the Dixie Dregs. They were a 70's/80's band that did all instrumentals that were kind of electric rock fusion, that was VERY cool. I also liked some of the bands like Kansas that did a lot of classical themed stuff. So yes, I have liked instrumentals to a degree.


I am afraid over the years I personally have developed the short attention span most consumers have now. So if there is not some lyrics that keep my attention I am likely to tune it out. The last couple of days I have posted a lot here because I am dismanteling my house and moving so I have had some time while waiting on people that are coming by to buy my furniture. I type pretty fast so I post a lot of this pretty quick.


So I don't mean any disrespect in my comments to you music-type dudes and dudettes. As a matter of fact, since I deal with about 80% of writers that are lyric only people (That drives me nuts too) I wish I could find more of you for setting up co-writes for my clients. Outside of that they have to put up with my limited musical abilities.

El Mabbo, the purveyor of "Foot in mouth" Disease.

John,

The cool part is when both parts come together. That is a thing I see in many forms of country music that are happening. There are some very good things out there and a lot of different styles and types of music in country.
And we always seem to get a lot of outside looking in people who say "Everything sounds the same". And I just don't believe that. Of course then you ask them, "What do you listen to" and they always say "I don't listen to the radio."
I have many friends who are very intellegent, very gifted writers and artists and they are putting a lot of varied material out there. It really is a pretty cool thing to see up close. And I always invite all of you to come to town and be a part. Particularly all you hot shot composer Dudes and dudettes. We can use ya!

MAB

John,

What part of Pa. are you from? Two of my back up singers, the Kinley's were from Philly, they had a good run on Sony for a while, as well as another friend of mine, Rich Fagin, who had several John Micheal Montgomery hits in the late ninties.

Good to hear from you.

MAB

Getting back to instrumentals …

New York City suburbs - the Poconos.

Well you did say it could be a broad topic. I was getting into the geographical influence of my instrumentals.

John

funny. Words about instrumentals.

Tom,

Steve Martin once said, "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture."

Well when the music speaks to you …

Hey, you guys tricked me. That's it names on the board. If you get a check by your name, I'm sending a note home to your parents.

A note?

Oh no. Give it a rest.

A rest?


That's it! I am putting my name on the board.

The wink is for Michael Z.

I'll defer to the guys above as to why instrumentals are no longer popular. I love them though - and have been happily buying them on iTunes. Some of my most recent ones:

Wipeout
Pipeline
Dueling Banjos
Theme from "The High and the Mighty"
Theme from "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly"
Theme from "Hawaii Five-O"
Theme from "The Munsters"

Hmmm - I'm sensing a theme here....

Scott

As Mike pointed out, a lot more people like instrumentals than is believed. I watch people listening to songs that have instrumental passages. Many love them. They get out their air instruments and start playing along. When it comes to music that is played on the radio, you get what is offered and that is all.

The Internet downloads will I think make a huge impact in this area. People are learning that they have a choice.

I know a lot of people who think that singer is just there to allow the guitar player to rest his hand before the next solo.

I have written and recorded a few instrumentals and they go over well when I play them in public. The audience probably appreciates not having to listen to me sing.

I love instrumentals it gives me a chance to sit down and have a break. On the other hand we do need more songs than instrumentals to keep us singers in work.

So much for my career as an instrumental lyricist.

Ah well you can always stick to making pizzas.

Hi Jean

Another good subject near & dear to my heart.

I take my versatility very seriously as it is probably my strongest asset.
I have an entire album/CD of instrumental music and yet I still submit lyrical pop/rock songs to the largest record label in the world.

1- I personally love instrumental music of all kinds. I especially love swing music and jazz rock fusion. Classical music of course. Theme music is absolutely wonderful. Much props to John Williams,Jerry Goldsmith,Danny Elfman and many others.

REAL music in my book is instrumental. And yet nobody loves Popular music with lyrics more than I do from the 40's - basically the 90's but mainly 40's - 70's

2- I ALWAYS talk about the loss of instrumental music in the masses and the business. I wrote a whole thread about it not too long ago.

I don't care what anyone try's to tell me. Record labels, Sponsors, and Radio ,TV determines what's is popular in this country.
No way no how is instrumental music anywhere near close to as popular as it used to be. There has always been instrumental music in films, and on commercials etc.. so what there's more channels. That means a million more non instrumentals as well.

Without researching anything I can tell you this. Frank Sinatra one of the biggest vocalist in HISTORY started behind the Tommy Dorsey Band.

Back in the day BIG BAND was POP music. It's what was on the radio and selling sheet music and records. I LOVE Big Band music. It is instrumentals that are VERY catchy. Benny Goodman, Glenn Miller, The Dorseys.s They were the POP stars.
And they were all GREAT musicians. How would you like to have Lionel Hampton.Gene Krupa and Harry James in YOUR band? and the KIDS went wild for them!!!

Okay you get the picture... Then they started having singers come up and do a a song or two with the band. The singers were not top billing. This started to get catch on and the singers started becoming more & more popular. Eventually taking the spotlight. Rosemary Clooney used to do this, so did Sinatra but it was Bing Crosby who really started the ball rolling, he got BIG!
Aside from this the great Al Jolson was the man... but his real anchor was really on Broadway and in shows. But then the trail blazing Jolson did the first talking picture.
He was an incredible musical force!

Once Jazz started becoming popular it stayed popular all the way till the 80's actually it did very well in the 80's but slowly MTV contributed to bumping it off the map.

Surf Music in the 60's was VERY popular!!!!

In the 70's The Jazz Rock fusion scene was booming. AWESOME! I own all the Midnight Specials and right after Helen Ready sings "I Am Woman" Weather Report w/Jaco come on and perform. Right after Oliva Newton John sings" Edgar Winter performs "Frankenstein" Chuck Mangione, George Benson. Herb Albert they all performed on PRIME TIME TV.

TV when there was only SEVEN channels had TONS & TONS of more impact than having two thousand channels NOW! That is not an opinion.
Being on channel 1,744 on Sunday at 4:45 am means crap compared to being on the Ed Sullivan Show! Or Dick Clark. The whole country saw you they had NO choice!

Even though we hate to admit it people are basically brainwashed into what ever is sold to them. MACDONALD'S is the worse crap you can put in your mouth and more people eat it everyday than ANYTHING else on the planet.

Record labels and whoever backs them NOT the public are the reason for the NO instrumental in the mainstream. People will BUY whatever you advertise to them that is a freaking fact otherwise people wouldn't spend countless millions doing just that.

George on Seinfeld summed it up best. They asked when him and Jerry were pitching there show- "George how do you know people will watch and like the show"? George simply says " Cause it's on TV that's why"

Kids really don't know any better if you expose them to something enough they will take to it, and adults are pretty much the same way. It's a fact because instrumentals were accepted and loved as POP CHARTED songs for many years. Why? Duh! Cause they heard it on the radio everyday. It wouldn't have been if they didn't play it on the radio. Dance Halls were kinda over

So expose them to something GREAT!
But it's too late for that now cause we are so sunk in to the sad state of things everyones afraid to try. No need or care to even try. But one day they might swing it back some. Doubt it but I hope so

Versatility of ANY KIND is completely wiped out of the top Pop Charts today never mind instrumental music. You can keep the internet I'll take instrumentals being played on the radio every minute of the day like LAdy Ga Ga and "Boom Boom Pow" lol...

"Practice really hard and study an instrument your whole life and maybe you can be on You Tube one day" Thanks alot!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!! Funny post, Sub! Especially about McDonald's...gotta quote that one one day...or maybe they can use it for a new slogan:

"The worse crap you can put in your mouth and more people eat it everyday than ANYTHING else on the planet!"

(Folks, when you read Mike's posts, you gotta heah da New Yawk accent. Awright? Yeah, awright. You know what I'm sayin'?)

A shift back toward instrumentals...I'll bet many here think it ain't gonna happen. And from an industry standpoint, that looks about right.

BUT! the industry is a reactor, not an initiator. If instrumentals are to return, it will begin in the clubs. Some new dance trend or something that gains speed on a local level, and gets bigger. THEN you will find the industry very keen to cash in. But it begins in your own hometown.

I ordered plenty of cool instrumentals for our restaurant sound system, and one of my very favorites just played a few minutes ago: Billy Preston's "Outta Space". YE-AH!

Whoa...and here's another one coming on now, Stevie Wonder's amazing "Easy Goin' Evening (My Mama's Call)". Pure sonic joy.

Subdude,

I think there are a couple of other factors. One being music education. Up until the 50's most kids had some kind of official music education. Almost everyone played an instrument. Standing around the parlor singing while someone played piano was a big thing up until radio. So music is not understood technically like it once was.
The second is shorter and shorter attention spans. Lyrics give people something else to listen to where as a certain instrument sound is going to get redundant to most people pretty quickly.
We don't even include guitar or keyboard solos any more in Nashville unless it is some part of the artist's repitoire. You might find it in Brad Paisley or Keith Urban's songs, as they are great players. But for the most part, we drop them when it comes to demos or approaches.

Just my opinion.

MAB

Good thread! Thanks, jean!

I LOVE instrumentals. My all-time favorite sing...bar none...is "Theme From A Summer Place". Percy Faith, one of the great Canadian musical minds, did everything perfecvt on that one. I grew up on hard-cre, Traditional Country muisc. My father always said I didn't need to learn minor chords because "good" music (meaning old time Country) didn't need them.

Well, as you know, I compose and record in almost all genres. And 70%, or more of what I compose, is instrumental music. I've heard a number of people say they aren't fans of instrumental music. My reply is to imagine the next movie they go to without a soundtrack. How would "Shaft" have been without a soundtrack? Not nearly as good, I would suggest!

I think most peole don't realize how often they hear and enjoy instrumentals. What about the jingles behinf commercials? Those are instrumentals. Most commercials are bad enough...but imagine them without musical soundtracks...ughhh! And what about when the news and weather comes on...those soundclips are instrumentals. Instrumentals are everyhwere. People just don't think of them as such.

But, i think jean is asking about full instrumental songs for commercial airplay. As a composer with a mediocre voice, instrumental composition opens up a whole new avenuye for my creatiuve sklls. Unlike Marc, and a lot of folks here and other places, I am not blessed with a wonderful voice. However, I have God-given talent for musical composition not requiriung vocal talent. Have you ever heard Burt bacharach sing? If you haven't, consider yourself very fotunate! However, he has composed some of the most wonderful music of all time. Without Burt Bacharach and Hal David (no relation) it is very questionable that Dionne Warwick would ever have had a career. Bacharac composed some of the most wionderful music of the 60s, 70s and 80s. And he is one person whom I can honerstly say sings much worse than I do.

Music runs in cycles, as do most things. The flavor of the decade changes as it rotates it different faces. Instrumentals, as discussed here, are not a full face, but they are part of one face of music. When that face comes up in rotation, I think we will once again see more interest in instrumentals.

One instrumental that almost everyone recognizes when played is "Suicide Is Painless". Don't recognize the name? It's the theme from the TV show "M.A.S.H.". It's probably one of the most reconizable instrumentals of the past 30 - 35 years. Yet, how many of you honestlty knew its name? if more than 20% of you said yes, you really did know that, i would be surprised.

So, instrumentals are still with us in a big way. We just aren't recognizing them as such. Good post, Jean!

Alan

MELODIES! With supporting accompaniment!

MELODIES!

Need I say more?

Yes?, Then here ya go:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=328343&content=music

Hi Mark

Yes it is way better with the New York accent and the hands moving all over the place.
lol

Hi Marc

I agree whole heartedly,education plays a big roll in the situation. But the media plays a much much bigger roll. It is WAY cooler to most kids to be like Paris Hilton or whoever else they see on TV and in the tabs than to be like Joni Mitchell. Or someone like Joni today. it's hard to think of someone off the top of head in 2009 that I can mention with Joni Mitchell

It's ALL about the media... and being HOT Paris Hilton makes $100,000 in one night for showing up at a club to drink and prance around for 45 minutes. She is HOT! She is great!
Sally Fields feeds thousands of starving kids a year and countless amounts in her lifetime and people call her a fat pig.

It is WAY WAY WAY cooler in the minds of the young to be a hip rapper with hot chicks,chicks is a nice word, fancy cars and bling then it is to be a serious musician. Serious musicians have to practice very very hard. Most pop stars today don't have to do that.
Lets see if I was 10 years old now would I idolize Lil Wayne or George Benson?
Hmm well I would NEVER get to see or hear George Benson so it's Lil Wayne
Lets count how many stars on the top 10 of the charts right now even play instruments period.

And when I say charts it's the Hot 100 the main chart not the separated ones.
Some people may be mistaken into thinking Country music occupies that top ten alot and it hardly ever does anymore. Unless we wanna call Taylor Swift Country, and we know she ain't. She's pop an Avril Lavine with an occasional fiddle or pedal steel.
Hip Hop dominates the planet in popular music that is a pure fact.

When I was 12 I saw George Benson on the only music program on TV at night.
He played the instrumental "Breezin" I was mesmerized. I saw Roy Clark on TV constantly he was outstanding!!! Guess what he was doing? See what the kids are watching and listening to today. Forget mentioning the internet, the search engines are all looking for Lil Wayne and Kayne West and whoever else... The kids can't get enough of there party loving idols.

I couldn't get enough of my party loving idols either only mine could play and sing and write flat out.

As far as music being understood technically .
When I was little 4 of my cousins took piano lessons and one took guitar. They would perform at family gatherings. I was not there equal in any regard. They could flat out, out play me. They took lessons and I didn't. They ALL quit! They were forced to play because parents made piano lessons a chore like dance classes.No one ever had to tell me to sit and practice I was never seen without a guitar in my hands.

Everyone I saw when I was little were great guitar players,drummers,singers bassists and such..
I learned 100% from the music scene. Hearing Jimmy Page, Clapton, Beck,Yes and Steve Howe, Queen, Stevie Wonder,Miles,Motown, Earth Wind And Fire (monster musicians,Carol king. Stones, Who. Genesis Floyd, Beatles, Eagles. and countless countless others one as great as the other.... Paul McCartney is not only the greatest pop song writer of an entire century he's like the greatest bass player as well lol
He revolutionized the BAss guitar popular and rock music.

Chicago was a HUGE pop band they were all great musicians.
The guys in Tull, Boston Fleetwood Mac, Elton Billy Joel these are POP starts Eric Carmen, Doobie Brothers, Allman Brothers HITS on the radio every single minute of the day.... All exceptional musical stuff going on and instruments in hand leading the way.

So after hearing great playing even in the poppiest songs like "Still The One" or Fool Around And fell In Love" etc...It's no wonder i would find my way to a Return To Forever " Concert and countless other great shows I've seen.

Also as far as music being understood technically here's the thing. It wasn't very technical in the 1950's on the pop music scene. Great songs great singers and some GREAT melodies but the industry was pushing the teen pop songs like they always have been and always will do. There were great instrumentals in the decade but the most important thing was there was BALANCE. Just like the 60's and 70's

The whole lack of exposure.... is the industry's fault and demise. I blame the artists just a tad Guys like Brad Paisely...

But I hear ya bro, I know all about the No guitar solos. Heck they don't even have them in ROCK pop songs anymore. How insane is that. But I understand the game very very well.

Nope the only factor is the big boys won't let it happen, they aren't even thinking about it. Expose great stuff to kids the way you expose nonsense and do it for a few years straight despite how much money you'll lose and see what happens. But that ain't happening not in the land of "Greedom"

PS- Marc you're insight into your music scene is extraordinary and very accurate.
And also very helpful especially if someone was trying to go for it and could stick to the game plans. If I were healthy I would join up for your tour for sure!! But then again I'd have a big list of things I would have to do first.

What sooo many people don't understand is talent and the love of it, are two things.
Perseverance, BUSINESS and the pursuit of a dream is another three things.


Good thread guys and gals!

There is room for all kinds of music but instrumentals and quality players do not take up the room they should. If some of the untalented but good looking karaoke pop tarts and boy bands were dropped there would be even more room for real music and real musicians.
Try asking Lil Wayne to play and sing a George Benson song and see what comes out...then ask George to play a Lil Wayne song...I know which one I would listen to.

Most of the music I listen to is instrumental. Classical music,Ethnnic music, new age, soundtrack (good to hear the mention of Danny Elfman there Sub, Mark Knopfler does some amazing soundtracks too), guitar god stuff (like Joe Satriani's "Surf with the Alien" for example).

Once words enter the picture the aural excitement is grounded.

Listeners like to take part and sing along with songs, even if they can't sing, with instrumentals, what can the listeners do, they can't sing if they don't know the lyrics, they can't play along, only with air instruments, so unless the instrumental is REALLY great or REALLY recognizable, it can get boring. I like instrumentals to a point but not to be over exposed. People can also sing lyrics to songs they know as they go about their daily work, with instrumentals you can only hum the tune.

Hey guys,

Man,this thread winds around doesn't it. One thing I observe on this and other topics. It is when someone talks about how there is a type of music that "Doesn't exist any more" and then half the people will chime back in and go "Yeah, it sucks that every thing is like that and that kind of music is just gone and people don't know what they are missing but I went on this web site or got this such and such album, and..." Which means that it is still out there. It might not be in the mainstream but it is out there.
Mike,you mentioned Taylor Swift and how it might not be your cup of tea and that is fine. But what happens when an artist like that gets cooking, it brings money into the entire genre. We probably have more new artists coming out of Nashville right now than any other format. And that format has expanded for market share when most other forms, even Hip hop and rap have contracted in sales figures.
Of course, again, the money thing is only one arbiter of music. It's too bad their aren't more instrumentals out there but my comments come more from the consumer and the reason a lot of them don't go for instrumentals as much as other music. And sometimes things come out which is an amalgamation of multiple styles and influences. Didn't Carlos Santana have a pretty big hit a few years back with Rob Thomas of Matchbox 20. While it wasn't a total instrumental, Carlos' guitar was VERY prominate.

As far as Nashville and country I want to be clear that I don't consider it the only format. I only talk about it because that is what I live. And I didn't start out in that. I started out in rock music of the 70's and 80's. I was in a band called 24 KARAT, that was in the whole Journey, Loverboy, REO Speedwagon, era of power pop. But the styles of music changed on me. The 90's brought the desperate angst filled Seattle grunge influences. Everything musically turned atonal and every garage band in the world suddenly were stars wearing flannel. The messages in that music was so dark and negative, I couldn't take it.
That is why I went to Nashville. Groups like Alabama and Exile and singers like George Jones, Lee Greenwood, Reba, and others were on the charts with stuff I loved. That led to some more rock and soul influenced people like Travis Tritt, Garth Brooks, and where we are today.
I think the point that I am making is that all music adapts, sometimes where we don't want it to go, and sometimes elements of what we once new. But I would bet that a lot of this music is out there. We just have to find it.

MAB

Better yet, we just have to make it!

Hi Marc

Yes it's all still out there but not in the mainstream. That's the point I'm making, it stayed in the mainstream for five decades. Now it is GONE from the mainstream.
Just like other things like guitar solo's, and horns and and the mixture of races in bands and the absence of five vocal microphones on a stage. They don't exist in the pop music mainstream anymore.

When I refer to today's pop I refer to the main chart. So that's why I don't include Country or Rock that much. They only usually occupy one spot in the top 10 each month sometimes not at all.

Never said Taylor Swift wasn't my cup of tea But I know what you mean. I'm actually co-producing a 13 year old girl who idolizes her. This girl here is already a wonderful pop song writer and singer and could be Taylor's equal pretty darn soon if she continues at this pace. What I said is she is "pop" which is what anybody is when they are "popular" really lol but in the tag & genre sense she sounds more pop.

She is far far closer to Avril Lavine or Hilary Duff than she is to Loretta Lynn or Reba Macintire. Modern Country is much more like older Rock, meaning old like Bon Jovi
Brian Adams etc... then it is to Johhny Cash or Alabama. That is why Hootie and Bon Jovi are making a presence in the Country genre these days. Some people there already sound like them. I respect the talents of Carrie Underwood and Taylor Swift, and we know times change so that's all good. My all time favorite band out of the Country/Pop genre was Restless Heart.

As for the instrumentals...
The average consumer does not buy what it does not see or hear. If they just don't go for instrumentals then they never would have gone for them the other five decades. When I was a little boy I heard "WipeOut" all the time. So of course when I got my hands on a guitar it was one of the first things I tried to play. Then I ran over to the snare drum in my house and tried to play the drum solo.

If the music on the radio that is played every five minutes of everyday required playing like "Wipe Out" did then kids would 1- Have to learn how to play real instruments to even be a "pop" star. 2- Instrumental music would have a much better chance of surviving somewhat in the mainstream radio.
We sold Rocks as pets in this Country I think we could sell great music. Maybe lol...

Teachers and musicians look at me funny when I say...
Thank God for Guitar Hero and Band Hero etc....

It is what is keeping Rock music and these instruments like guitar,drums bass,alive in this generation. Rock is the most Diverse of all the genres. A six year old kid is listening to "Smoke On The Water" all day just like I did when I was small.
It may get the littler video game CRAZED kids into the music stores for lessons and or real instruments.

8 out or every 10 kids I meet are wanna be gangstas, hip hop rappers. Even if they don't rap at all they ALL emulate the style,language and behavior. It's ALL about attitude and social and that is THERE music. They copy what they see and hear everyday, they don't make it up. It's the labels and powers that be that can bring "balance" to the forefront.

The word "Instrumentals" comes from the word "instrument" The most popular music on the planet today does not require the studying,practicing or much use of real instruments. So goodbye instrumentals....Hence the art of "Producing" changes, and the word "Sampling" grows. I personally feel that such work is an art form all in itself. I have respect for modern producers.

Hi Everett

Totally true!

Only hey it's the same game and rules for the instrumentals. I'm not saying every off beat weird or obscure instrumental should be on the mainstream radio all day.
Even though if were the case and there was NO choice wouldn't people get used to it? Of course brainwashing is EASY!! Why didn't people hate Classical music or a few centuries? Mainly cause it's ALL they had LOL..

But anyway same rules, only the really appealing instrumentals make the top charts.
"FRankenstein" by Edgar Winter Group was very unique and appealing. "Dueling Banjo's" very appealing. Walter Murphy's Rendition of The Fifth Of Beethoven,
VERY catchy... etc...."Space RAce" etc... "Loves Theme" "Feels So Good" "Sleepwalk"
"Wipe Out"

Wow look at how different they all are!

Let the most catchy ones go to the top of the charts. That's what they did....

Danny Elfman of course Tom, I mean WOW! If he only did The Simpons Theme his music would make a lasting impression. It's only the longest running show in TV history. But is whole body of work is just staggering. I still love the TAles Of The Crypt theme. And he did The Desparate Housewives one as well, the guy is great!

Lets take a second to be thankful there is still the PBS TV station. They still air some great vast musical stuff.

Well that's enough instrumental talk for me lol.. I been stuck on 5 lyrical songs for four years now. And I'm trying to finish off an instrumental right now.
The instrumental will go alot easier and faster because there's no one to pitch it to. lol

Don't go away sub. Still need your insight. Alan, I did know that "Suicide Is Painless" was the MASH theme (...suicide is painless, it brings on many changes, and I can take or leave it if I please..). It has lyrics, they are in the original movie.

I learned how to play the guitar from playing instrumentals. Bluegrass music, fiddle tunes. Instrumental songs are, and have always been instrumental (no pun intended) in Bluegrass. "Dueling Banjo's" was mentioned. Remember "Orange Blossom Special"? How about "Foggy Mountain Breakdown"?

Another piece of trivia. Ever hear the song "The Devil Went Down To Georgia" by The Charlie Daniels Band? The opening Fiddle break and Fiddle licks between verses is actually an old Fiddle tune called "Lonesome Fiddle Blues". An old Fiddle Tune instrumental.

I can't add anything to Subs assessment. I just have to agree. I'm glad that he had the time and knowledge of the music business for the last 40 years and to express what I believe.

I'm also a huge Pink Floyd fan. When they made the transition between the Syd Barrett Pink Floyd to the Gilmour Pink Floyd, they composed movie soundtracks. One of my favorite albums was "Atom Heart Mother". Side one is all instrumental. It was originally supposed to be the soundtrack for a Spaghetti Western. It didn't happen, so the music was put onto the album. It sounds familiar to "The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly" sountrack.

Al - I LOVE "Shaft" When I was seven years old I had the 8 track soundtrack for that.
And that Quad Stereo

My older sister and brother in law owned a record/stereo shop they used to take me there after school. I would hang around water plants and sweep. And in turn they would let me take whatever few records I wanted. But they played R&b & Soul music of the times constantly. So when I heard the orchestra opening up on Barry Whites "Love Theme" it filled my heart and soul. This is when and where I found Al Green, Earth Wind & Fire, Stevie, Barry White, The Ojay's The Spinners, Issac hayes, Curtis Mayfield, The Temps Four Tops. MArvin Teddy P, Eddie Kendricks. The Stylistics, The Main Ingredient, The Tramps and a host of others.....

After that it was home to my room where my older brother played endless Rock!!

Ben (I mean)- Thanks for the kind words. I too am a Floyd freak, Love just about every record they ever did. I saw Waters Hitchhiking show as well where Clapton played in his band.

See that's why Eric Clapton is So GREAT! He's Eric Clapton yet you catch him in the background in someone else's project. And he moves around man! This is what John Mayer especially and Brad Paisley even more so is lacking. "Vision" and Change!
And a musical journey...

John Mayer should go into other groups and create an be a part of various projects.
The way Clapton did with derek And the Dominoes. let me BE a guitar player then go get Duane Allman in my band!!! Let me be in a band with Steve Winwood.
And in another with Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker. Oh and lets see Jeff Beck and Jimmy Page.
Let me do songs from GREAT outside writers like JJ Cale and Bob Marley.
Let me throw down songs like Layla that are just timeless and both great, long lol and VERY popular.

No just let today;s top most popular guitarist let guitar music die so they can date actresses and supermodels. lol

Hendrix had this vision and Santana lived it.

Okay I'll think about instrumentals some more....

lets talk about my boy Larry Carlton his instrumentals Room 335 and Point It Up are incredible.

Very few artists these days take chances, it's true. Occasionally, you'll find someone who will though, like this guy who put out an album with 10 out of 14 songs on it as instrumentals, sharing licks with folks like James Burton, Albert Lee, and B.B. King.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpeVwgPzt-8&feature=channel

And then to get a fine review from the L.A. Times. That says: "Despite the fret board fireworks, this is an honest love letter to the art of making music."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2008/11/album-review-br.html

He must be quite a musician!

Hey mike, this is Ben. Don't know if you mean't me or Al.

Ah FINALLY!! It's about time! I'm reading the responses on You Tube and people are like wow i didn't know he played like that. This is the kind of thing that leads to more things like it. Thanks Brad for taking the time to stop singing about "Ticks"
and playing some music.

Instrumentals have melodies.

More liberties can be taken with an instrumental melody, as opposed to a song (singing) melody.

John

Hello Jean:

Sorry to arrive so late to the "waltz." I see you've experienced a couple of interesting "hi-jackings" along the way... LOL!

Instrumentals:

Love 'em... as long as they are well done, inspiring or otherwise interesting. Often, I'll listen and spend a little time creating lyrics for something that really catches my ear. I seldom follow up with the Instrumentalist because the time and logistics usually become too involved. Many composers are insulted that songwriters would want to add lyrics... LOL, while others are quite receptive.

Of all the genres where instrumentals seem to "shine" the most... Jazz and Light Classics plus old-time Pop sounding tunes get my attention first.

Great topic. Interesting replies.

Dave Rice

http://www.ShowCaseYourMusic.com/DaveRice

I love instrumental songs. From Pop to classical to country.
UNDER THE DOUBLE EAGLE. an old Classical piece that became a country song.
FADED LOVE and SAN ANTONIO ROSE were Bob Wills instrumentals until there were words written for the songs. As was perhaps The STEEL GUITAR RAG.

The Poor People of Paris by Les Baxter, I think. Didn't know it had words until I got a Dean Martin CD.

Chet Atkins was the king of great instrumental music and also Speedy West and Jerry Bird a Steel Guitar Player.

Big Band Music such as Stan Kenton, Glen Gray, Bobby Hackett as well as others. Ray Anthony also comes to mind. A ton of great music out there to be had at very reasonable prices.

The last #1 instrumental pop song I can remember was "Love is Blue" (I think Classical Gas only made it to #2). That was back in 67/68 -- any others that are newer?

Kevin

"Love Is Blue" is a good song. Was it a Harpsichord?
There were several instrumentals on the charts in the 70's. "Rockford Files", "Star Wars" and my favorite, "Tubular Bells". "Tubular Bells" was actually a continuous song that lasted the length of an album by Mike Oldfield. One of my favorite "stoner" albums from the 70's.

Two excellent instrumental albums by Frank Zappa, "Hot Rats" includes what I think was his best instrumental, "Peaches In Regalia" and his album "The Grand Wazoo", a jazz album.

I love to hear songs being sung...but I'd go crazy if that's all we ever did. In the course of any evening of music, a time comes when you just gotta

Don't forget three of the most popular songs of all time, "Free Bird", "Layla", and "Hotel California". All three had lyrics but the instrumental second half of the songs came through and made the songs.

I often think about that and talk about it in musical conversions. I always thought Kenny G had the last number one hit with an instrumental back in the late 80's.

Even the internet doesn't care much for instrumentals lol as I searched and couldn't get an answer.

But I do believe that The theme for MIAMI VICE by JAn Hammer was the last #1 instrumental song.

Fact - There as been no instrumental in the Top 20 since 1999.

Some later instrumentals 1970 - to Hit #1 were

MIami Vice - Jan hammer

Chariots Of Fire - Vangellis - Who I also loved eith Jon Anderson of Yes

Rise - Herb Albert

Star Wars Cantina Band - Meco

Gonna Fly Now (Rocky) Bill Conti

Fifth Of Beethoven - Walter Murphy 1976

The Hustle - Van Mcoy (mostly instrumental)

Pick Up The Pieces - AWB (mostly instrumental)

Loves Theme - Barry White

Frankenstein - Edgar Winter Group

These were all Number one hits.

A few great ones made the top #5 like

2001
The Entertainer
Tubular Bells
Space Race
Feels So Good
Songbird

Let's not leave Dick Dale out of the mix. He sells out everywhere with his left handed upsidown surf guitar. Check out this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNqnlRxg9tU

I'm a vocalist songwriter and I write instrumentals too ! if it wasn't for these kind of tracks some of the most tension filled moments from film would not be as powerful , the jaws theme is an excellent example of this.Songs are just words added to instrumentals !

I compose either songs, and instrumentals, here's a link to a surf instrumental I wrote that was #1 on the Soundclick Surf Rock charts Overboard.