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#734691 - 07/02/09 10:18 PM Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson  
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ben willis Offline
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We all knew this was going to happen. Very important news stories are being buried because of the media's obsession with sensationalism and gossip. I think that MJ was a freak, and not worthy of such attention (money talks). His music never rose to the level of Elvis or The Beatles.
Where is his "Hey Jude" moment? There is none. Don't argue "Thriller" or "Bad" because "Hey Jude" lasts for generations. MJ's songs only stay with one generation.
He didn't write. He sang and danced.
I compare him with Sammy Davis Jr. who I have more regard for a show man who showed humility.
This was bound to happen and I'm ready to take the arrows. Ben

#734693 - 07/02/09 10:30 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: ben willis]  
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I agree that it will get old with all the media about Michael, but he did write many hit songs. He was not just a performer and dancer.

Have a good one.:)
Kim


*Always open to collaborations on my lyrics.. with singers and musicians, but PLEASE contact me before putting work into one--in case someone else has it..thanks!!**
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#734698 - 07/02/09 10:49 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
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We don't know if he ever wrote anything. Everyone here knows that a big name will share songwriting credits just to get the royalties. Most struggling writers will share the royalties with the artist.

#734702 - 07/02/09 11:02 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: ben willis]  
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eb Offline
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As far as I know, there's no evidence he didn't write the songs that bear his name. I wasn't a big MJ fan but I see him as much a singer as many others. I'm a big Elvis fan and seems to me his "moves" were as big in the news as his songs were in the early days. I may not be the best one to say but I've only seen a few Michael Jackson videos. MTV began when he was around 22 which is still young enough to be "in the thick of things." I agree Michael Jackson was "a freak" but I also think he was an enormously talented individual. The worst thing I ever heard against his were the child abuse charges. I don't know what happened but I know a jury found him innocent of ALL charges he went to court on.

As for a Hey Jude moment, I think "Billie Jean" and the debut of the moonwalk was it for me. Now, I didn't like "Billie Jean" particularly but that was a moment. IIRC, it's when he made the big final break from the family act.

#734703 - 07/02/09 11:09 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: eb]  
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Ben: you're wrong.

grin

#734705 - 07/02/09 11:13 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: eb]  
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Ben,

While I agree with you about Michael's music I don't agree with some of your comments. First off you have to judge an entertainer by their effect on culture. He was the first to really combine the Hollywood epic and videos, which now are in everything we do. He brought in Hollywood directors (John Landis) and movie techniques to MTV which was still a fledgling network started by Micheal Nesmith (of the Monkees, who's mother invented Liquid Paper)nd others. He also brought a mainstream african American audience to music and did cross a lot of boundries in his own time.
Now, I don't buy that "Entertainer of the millinium nonsense, I still will say Elvis and the Beatles, but he is not that far behind. And as far as not "writing anything" that is pretty much nonsense. You can get away with a song lift once and a while (but to me, and those who are actually in the music business, that is the biggest myth of all, people don't steal songs. There are 12 notes, only so many combinations, and everything has been written before)
So you don't have to go with all the the hype, but you do have to give the guy his due. He was an innovator and very talented. With all talent come a dual side of the personality. Same with actors, songwriters, artists, poets, etc, There are a lot of things you have to be aware of.

MAB

#734706 - 07/02/09 11:18 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Mark Kaufman Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
Ben: you're wrong.

grin

Sorry.

But more to the point, Jackson WAS a great songwriter who wrote most of his own hits...there are no other songwriters involved with "Billie Jean" or "Beat It" or numerous other global hits. He was also a skilled producer. And obviously, his performing skills had impact on the entire planet. I think the world population will remember Michael Jackson much better and longer than, say, Alan Jackson.

There are a lot of myths about the guy, and if you want to believe the media hype, or remain convinced he was a pedophile, that's easy enough. But check out what some of these guys who worked with him had to say...it really opened my eyes: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/401331-robmix-tell-us-about-mj.html Those recollections paint a different picture for me. A seriously dedicated artist who always wanted the childhood he never got to have.

But make no mistake, he was a wicked good writer and producer as well as just an electrifying performer and dancer.

#734712 - 07/02/09 11:38 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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ben willis Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
Ben: you're wrong.

grin

Mark, About what? Did I offend you?

Marc, I agree with everything you said. He made MTV what it is,(whatever it is now), but the whole world didn't like his music. There were people who didn't care for his music. As a matter of fact, George Staight and Garth Brooks sold records at the same time.(I don't have the numbers) I didn't say that he didn't write anything. I just question it.

This thread is about the media and MJ. I called him a "freak" and who can dispute that? Go ahead and say he was normal Mark K but deep down inside you know I'm right.


#734714 - 07/02/09 11:44 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Dear Ben,
Hello cutie! If you don't mind, I'd like to add my two cents.

I look at one simple statistic to judge the impact which any art form has upon a population. Here's the statistic:

HOW MANY PERSONS DID THE COMMUNICATION OF THAT ART FORM INFLUENCE OR IMPACT IN A POSITIVE MANNER?

Since any art can be categorized as a "quality of communication," then you have to simply observe how that quality of communication was received by the planet as a whole.

If a person's communication was received and admired by millions, well, then there was a quality in that communication that impinged upon the masses. Mass agreement is what makes fame.

Since millions were affected by the loss of this artist, then the interest level by those millions merits the news. MJ paid his dues and deserved every bit of coverage in my book.

MJ was an icon. Most innovators do not fit in molds. Great ideas are not created by groups. They originate from a single source and then are supported by a group or team.

Without those unique individuals who have the courage to create different aesthetics, we would never have new styles of anything. It is the artist who fashions the future.

So, I am grateful to all the "freaks" out there who have the courage to step out of the box and pave the way.

MJ was an artistic, original soul who impacted millions. May he finally rest in peace after all the "sensationalism" targeting him in the media. I believe the smear campaign was leveled by vested interests to blackmail MJ and then furthered in the media to sell papers and ad time.

If anyone is a freak, it is the person behind the blackmail and those rumormongers who make their livings off the sales of negative propaganda.

There is no reason to not admire the amazing talent of this innovator and the resultant impact he had on pop culture.

The media loves anything negative and feeds upon it to make their living. I say, why not be happy when they are paying tribute to a fine artist rather than creating a smear campaign to promote him as a pedophile. If Karma is real, then MJ deserves years worth of tribute in the media after what they did to ruin his reputation.

Respectfully,
Heidi


"And, in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." Paul McCartney
#734720 - 07/03/09 12:02 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Heidi Thompson]  
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Originally Posted by Heidi Thompson
Dear Ben,
Hello cutie!
Respectfully,
Heidi


Heidi, I know condescension when I read it, and you are full of it. But! I took your post into account. I still think think that MJ was unusual, (I didn't say freak).

#734721 - 07/03/09 12:04 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Heidi Thompson]  
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Michelle Chapman Offline
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Hi everyone,
I have to agree with Heidi.And not everyone LOVED Elvis,but that doesnt change the fact that he was the "King of Rock and Roll",just as Michael Jackson is the "King of Pop".Love him or hate him,everyone knew of him.As far as him being a freak,I guess youwould have to define freak.I think he was a human being with great dreams and ambition,but had mental problems due to his upbringing(not to mention all of the horrible accusations).I feel that he was an entertaiment genius.It's because of the "freaky"way that he lived his life,that so much attention was drawn to him.He was a child trapped in a mans body,and my heart goes out to those who really knew him and loved him.So many people will remember exactly where they were and what they were doing when the first heard that our precious "King of Pop"was gone.....I know I will.
Michelle


*****You know I'm a dreamer,but my heart's of gold*****Motley Crue


#734725 - 07/03/09 12:14 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: ben willis]  
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Originally Posted by ben willis
Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
Ben: you're wrong.

grin

Mark, About what? Did I offend you?

Marc, I agree with everything you said. He made MTV what it is,(whatever it is now), but the whole world didn't like his music. There were people who didn't care for his music. As a matter of fact, George Staight and Garth Brooks sold records at the same time.(I don't have the numbers) I didn't say that he didn't write anything. I just question it.

This thread is about the media and MJ. I called him a "freak" and who can dispute that? Go ahead and say he was normal Mark K but deep down inside you know I'm right.


No, not offended, and seriously don't have my back up or anything...just saying that some of what you said in your post is not true, like stating he didn't write...when he's possibly the most successful songwriter of all time, as far as sales go. Check out Wikipedia for the song credits. You'll find a lot of songs by just him, but very few collaborations with his name on it...so yes, he writes, and no, he doesn't mooch for cowrite credits.

Weird as all get-out? Yep. But I think he was a truly good person.

#734726 - 07/03/09 12:18 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Michelle Chapman]  
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Heidi, hope you ain't mad at me for mt last post. I don't never delete my posts(as a southern gentleman). I just said what was on my mind at the time. Ben

#734731 - 07/03/09 12:28 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: ben willis]  
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ben willis Offline
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Originally Posted by ben willis

He didn't write. Ben

Yep, your right Mark. I said he didn't write without backing it up. I personally don't believe that he wrote and don't feel like trying to prove it.
So I'll take your word for it.

#734732 - 07/03/09 12:32 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: ben willis]  
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson

"As one of the world's most famous men, Jackson's highly publicized personal life, coupled with his successful career, made him a part of popular culture for four decades."

That site and that sentence is why, Ben.

And, (as if anything else is needed to show the case), the fact that this is just one of thousands of sites talking about him STILL,,,,like him or not,,,,and like it or not the fact that the news companies make money decisions, not news decisions.

That's all why. Personal tastes will have some not wanting to hear what the other guy wants to hear about. Money will dictate what is news. Fame helps to get new watchers. MJ was and is FAMOUS up the wazoo! Worldwide! The freakyness is all a part of that fame, bringing more attention to himself through the years, whether on purpose or not. Doesn't matter which. Fame is fame. News is news. Money is money.

Hey,,,,I'm pretty smart to come up with those last three epiphanies!


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#734738 - 07/03/09 12:51 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
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Howdy Ben,
Nope, not offended. Different viewpoints are what make variety in this world! Just putting in my two cents, that's all. LOL!

Oh, and I think the word "unusual" is much better than "freak." Thanks for that one!

You're still a cutie to me!

Heidi


"And, in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." Paul McCartney
#734741 - 07/03/09 01:06 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Heidi Thompson]  
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ben willis Offline
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Thanks Heidi, More Cher or Cher like pics please. They don't even have to be Cher. Just you.

#734775 - 07/03/09 04:16 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: ben willis]  
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My 2 cents..He was a child prodigy, turned musical genius {although I personally didn't care for much of it, I acknowledge the creativity and talent it took to pull it off} turned circus freak.
Although it was never officially proven, I think the evidence is pretty heavy against him that he was indeed a child molester, and at the least had a VERY strange relationship with children. The comparisons with Elvis are appropriate considering they both went out the same way...Has-beens and victims/prisoners of pop culture and their own fame..Eccentric recluses in their private fortresses {Graceland, Neverland} surrounded my "yes men" who didn't have the balls to step in and help them, hooked on every drug on the planet,dead from heart attacks way too early, one bloated, the other emmaciated and in the end, tragic freaks.You know this has to be the greatest thing to EVER happen to the tabloids and their T.V counterparts...You KNOW somewhere the producers of "Inside Edition" and the like had to have creamed their jeans at the news of his death.They hit "the motherlode" and this will keep them in buisness for the next 2years! What a sad commentary on society in general.

Last edited by Bob Cushing; 07/04/09 01:01 AM.

bc
#734810 - 07/03/09 09:45 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Bob Cushing]  
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ben willis Offline
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Thanks Bob, you spelled out my thoughts. As far as the word "Freak", it was his choice to disfigure himself and act eccentric. He wasn't born that way.

#734818 - 07/03/09 10:14 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: ben willis]  
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Kevin Emmrich Online content
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Quote
Where is his "Hey Jude" moment?


I remember waiting for that song to come out on AM radio, the big build up, anticipation, the premier airing -- I never really liked that song.


Kevin


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#734833 - 07/03/09 11:58 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
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Originally Posted by John Daubert
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson

That's all why. Personal tastes will have some not wanting to hear what the other guy wants to hear about. Money will dictate what is news. Fame helps to get new watchers. MJ was and is FAMOUS up the wazoo! Worldwide! The freakyness is all a part of that fame, bringing more attention to himself through the years, whether on purpose or not. Doesn't matter which. Fame is fame. News is news. Money is money.

Hey,,,,I'm pretty smart to come up with those last three epiphanies!


John, you sound like John Madden.

#734841 - 07/03/09 12:18 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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Bagga Bownz Offline
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Mark,

I so agree with you!!! If you check the stories from people who worked with him closely, you'll see. See http://www.mikemcknight.com

Mike is one of the few 'nobullshit' people in the bizz, as far as I know..., he knows about MJ...and others...

#734858 - 07/03/09 01:22 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Bagga Bownz]  
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Doug/Liszt Laughing Offline
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Hey Bagga - I love you guys/gals music! I have your album from the last awards cycle (saw the video of your JPF Awards performance), and I am happy to see your new one nominated. I'll have to check it out soon.

Later,

Doug.


Boo...my name is Doug
#734862 - 07/03/09 01:27 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Doug/Liszt Laughing]  
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And on MJ - I confess I got a tear in my eye when I heard the news...My buddy I was camping with did too (we are the same age). I dug out my Thriller and I'm even learning "Beat It" on the acoustic.


Boo...my name is Doug
#734884 - 07/03/09 02:07 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Doug/Liszt Laughing]  
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I find myself somewhat fascinated at what MJ's death seems to be revealing about The Man Himself...as all the Former "Friends" crawl outta the Woodwork...& spill the beans.

For me, that little "Secret Room" above his Bedroom speaks Volumes.

That behind us, I'm in awe of The Man's Business acumen. "Thriller", at the time the FIRST Music Video using a Hollywood MOVIE Director..was done on MJ's PERSONAL Million Bucks. (What a GAMBLE..and What a TALENT!~) This..from the Kid Singer who got $11K monthly royalty checks in the mail..at Age 11.

I credit him with Re-Inventing Himself..on a Regular Basis..more-often than even Eric Clapton. Sadly, he used Surgery maybe a few times TOO-often/the Psycholigists will have fun for Years discussing this matter...BUT..let's face it, even with a Face Mask, he was Headline Material..LONG into his career.

He was also brilliant-enough, business-wise, to purchase the Beatles Catalogue...AND to probably pre-sell it back to Paul McCartney prior to his death (& avoid The Creditors/Patch up a Friendship..at the same time.) Sheer Business Genius. A HS Buddy of mine who free-lances Camera-Work did MJ's NY Concert/HAD the Camera-Job of covering MJ's Front-&-Center Action. Pronounced him "One of the Easiest Stars to Work-With"..when I grilled him on "Tell me the Truth on some of those "Big Names" you've shot?" MJ's "Back Catalogue" last week Topped the Billboard Charts over ALL the "Newly-Released" Weekly CDs Sales...for, I think, the First Time-EVER in History.

Even ELVIS never sold 26 Million on a single Album.

MJ's production skills...overlapped with Quincy Jones..to produce some Truly Forever-Memorable Stuff. He hired the Best. (Eddie Van Halen's the Guitarist behind "Beat It's"..better riffs, best I recollect.) The 50-Year-Old-Kid out-danced most ALL of his Competition..WISH he'd made that "Comeback" Concert--bet he'd have won some New Believers if only he had.

Sounds like MJ used the Wrong Sleeping Drug at The Wrong Time.
Heck of a way to end a career...but so the guy was Human? No Crime in that. Tragic..Yes. The Videos of "His 2nd last Rehearsal" look like he WAS about to get his life back on-target/glad there's One Last CD to be released before it's ALL over but The Recollections..& Neverland becomes a Shrine..to his Remaining Fans. Like Elvis, you watch the Guy sell MORE now that he's dead than when he was alive...the True Mark of a Real Talent.

You Watch!
Best Wishes,
Stan

#734890 - 07/03/09 02:17 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Doug/Liszt Laughing]  
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i'm sure he was a complex person, with both good qualities and challenging qualities, a lot of light and some hidden corners that he could not seem to resolve. join the club. in the end, he was just a person... how well would any have us done with that childhood, being an african american performer at that time, surrounded by that kind of crushing, inescapable fame? unless you really know how you would do, i would say, judge not. i sure as heck have no idea what his life was like, i'm not in any position to call him names or judge his choices. the only thing i feel for him is a sense of compassion because he does seem to have been uniquely tormented, but again i don't really know.

if he was in pain, i truly hope his sensitive soul has found the peace he couldn't find here.

#734914 - 07/03/09 03:18 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: ben willis]  
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Originally Posted by ben willis
We all knew this was going to happen. Very important news stories are being buried because of the media's obsession with sensationalism and gossip. I think that MJ was a freak, and not worthy of such attention (money talks). His music never rose to the level of Elvis or The Beatles.
Where is his "Hey Jude" moment? There is none. Don't argue "Thriller" or "Bad" because "Hey Jude" lasts for generations. MJ's songs only stay with one generation.
He didn't write. He sang and danced.
I compare him with Sammy Davis Jr. who I have more regard for a show man who showed humility.
This was bound to happen and I'm ready to take the arrows. Ben

Hi- You did say he was a freak... BUT, that is your opinion and everyone has one:)
I don't agree about the songwriting though. I highly doubt anyone would allow Michael Jackson to tack his name on a song, and lose out on millions of dollars, if they are a writer, looking to make money. I surely wouldn't. He wrote many songs, and co-wrote some as well. He was talented. Troubled, perhaps, but talented. It is just like Anna Nicole, Heath Ledger, we will hear about this for a while. No way to get around it. Have a good one.peace~ Kimberly


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#734930 - 07/03/09 04:45 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: KimberlyinNC]  
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I think it is a bit more than just opinion that he was a freak. His aims seemed to be to become white and disfigure himself until he looked like "The Joker" from the Batman movies. His involvement with children is at the very least unnatural if not immoral and illegal. Where did the white kids with the weird names come from and who in their right mind allowed him to be in charge of them? His early music was a bit special but lately he produced very little worth writing home about. We will probably never get to the bottom of this man and his weirdness. But one thing for sure if he is not a freak I would hate to see what is.
Sad that he died...but I am not surprised. I kinda knew his proposed concerts would be non starters. There could be more to his death than meets the eye.

#734943 - 07/03/09 06:53 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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eb Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
I think the world population will remember Michael Jackson much better and longer than, say, Alan Jackson.


Mark: you're wrong. exclamation

Well, maybe they will but why diss Alan Jackson? He'll be in the Country Music Hall of Fame before Michael and I'll betcha he stands more chance to be in the Rock Hall than Michael does the Country Hall. And like I've said before, country is all that really matters. Alan Jackson always! Viva La Alan!

Just for the record, I looked at the RIAA.ORG website where it gives various data on (I think) American sales of music product.

Alan Jackson has sold 42 million units
Michael Jackson has sold 61.5 million units
George Strait has sold 68 million units

On the list of 400 best selling albums in America, Michael Jackson has 5, Alan Jackson has 3. The Beatles have 11 and Garth has 10, Mariah Carey has 8, and The Eagles have 7. After that, a few have 6, several have 5, and it dwindles down.

As to which individual albums have sold the most in America, The Eagles Greatest Hits 1971-1975 is number 1 with 29 million. Thriller is number 2 with 28 millions. With all the sales of the last two weeks, Thriller is probably number 1 now.

#734944 - 07/03/09 07:04 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: eb]  
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Thought you guys might be interested in reading Lisa Marie Presley's blog regarding her relationship with MJ:

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=42291868&blogId=497035326


"And, in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." Paul McCartney
#734946 - 07/03/09 07:41 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Heidi Thompson]  
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MJ was most certainly a song and lyric writer, not to mention a brilliant arranger and beatboxer. Furthermore his record sales approach one billion worldwide, a feat so remarkable that it speaks for itself. Also, people seem to have some SEVERE misconceptions about MJ's personal life and appearance. His skin color transformation was not a choice, he had two medical disorders;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitiligo
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemic_lupus_erythematosus

Both of these severely affect skin pigmentation.

He didn't choose to become white. Stop calling him a freak if you're ignorant of the facts.

Yeah, he had plastic surgery, but so have hundreds of millions of other people on Earth. Are they all freaks too?

With regards to the child abuse, he was acquitted on all counts - no real evidence was found. Reports have surfaced that his original accuser has even withdrawn his initial claims, stating them to be false. Whether or not THAT is accurate is irrelevant. This is America. Are people guilty until proven innocent? No. His relationship with children was certainly strange, but the obvious explanation is clear to even a non-psychologist. He was abused by his father repeatedly and his childhood was essentially ruined, having been basically forced into the life of a celebrity from a VERY young age. How can you expect such a person to have ever "grown up"?

As for 'humility', firsthand accounts of MJ's behavior in the studio verify that he was one of the nicest, most humble and easiest to work with musicians around.

Last edited by Andrew Aversa; 07/03/09 07:47 PM.

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#734948 - 07/03/09 07:52 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Andrew Aversa]  
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From a spiritual standpoint, if someone is haunted by those types of thoughts which would make one want to have such extreme plastic surgery,etc., then it just shows MJ was a tormented soul.

As for his love of children, I really don't see much wrong with that. What I perceive is that MJ never really had his own childhood, and so had a connection with kids. From what I've read or heard, the pedophile rumors were simply rumors meant to sell newspapers and magazines.

For those of you who feel MJ to be a "freak," let me tell you a little story. I remember being on a plane flying back from the Caribbean. A girl seated behind me was speaking as if she were mentally retarded. The people seated next to me were laughing at her and poking fun. I was even guilty of laughing myself.

Then, we heard the girl explaining to someone next to her that she was deaf. Thus the reason behind the strange speech pattern. She further explained that her husband had just died and that she went out to sea to say good-bye and to throw their wedding rings into the water. How did I feel after that? Ashamed at myself.

It is the lack of understanding which prods us to call others "freaks" in lieu of compassion. We don't know the back story behind what MJ lived through. We only know what we saw in the tainted slants of the vicious media.

Blessings,
Heidi


"And, in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." Paul McCartney
#734950 - 07/03/09 07:59 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Andrew Aversa]  
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"Who is Alan Jackson?" I presume he is some famous American country singer. Up until the post where he was mentioned I had never heard of him and probably millions of Brits would testify the same AND only a handful have ever bought one of his records. Everybody in the UK has heard of MJ and nearly everyone has at least one of his records......

MJ can be remembered for some great music and his talent as an entertainer is not in question. He will also remembered for being wacko and a weird freak with some questionable behaviour and a compulsion for unbelievable self mutilating cosmetic surgery. I am surprised that so called surgeons could condone these procedures being performed and how his so-called "advisers" could let him have them.

#734951 - 07/03/09 08:03 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Andrew Aversa]  
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Quote
The media loves anything negative and feeds upon it to make their living. I say, why not be happy when they are paying tribute to a fine artist rather than creating a smear campaign to promote him as a pedophile. If Karma is real, then MJ deserves years worth of tribute in the media after what they did to ruin his reputation.


Heidi, you said a mouthful there. High 5, sister. We should be so quick to judge the media for THEIR misbehavior. Seriously, how can we call ourselves human if we are so ready to crucify someone "different"? Oh. Sorry. Yes, they did that to Christ too, didn't they?


"Grits is one of those country-boy words that is both singular and plural-like deer, elk and sheep. I think the singular is appropriate when there's a modifier that makes it clear one is talking about something specific. Like, 'Grits are good for you, but these here grits is tasty.'"~~Joe Wrabek
#734952 - 07/03/09 08:09 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Andrew Aversa]  
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Andrew
You know that for a fact? that he had a skin condition? Seems like that would be front page news.
I should add if he did have this condition I imagine it was pretty rough on him emotionally
Has anyone figured out who the kids were fathered by or do they have the skin condition too?
You know
I have known people all my life that had serious problems with their health, with relationships, with their mothers and fathers abusing them.
They sometimes turned into drug addicts or alcoholics. Sometimes became homeless and sometimes became successful members of the community.
A few are in Jail.
I know of one who is in Prison for child rape.
The ONLY difference between them and Michael Jackson is they are not rich.

Most of them are pretty decent folks MOST of the time but Like Lisa Marie said; when they are bad they are VERY bad.

I think it is a sad tragedy that Michael Jackson ended up on a slab in the morgue from a probable drug induced heart attack but he did it to himself. No one did it to him.

The world has lost a great talent but there are a lot of great talents out there that manage to live a good life.

RIP Michael. I hope you have found the peace you sought. But in the end you were just another drug addicted person who died in their addiction long before they had to.

With any luck this media frenzy will die soon.




Last edited by Bill Robinson; 07/03/09 09:17 PM.

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#734955 - 07/03/09 08:25 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Bill Robinson]  
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Andrew,
Thanks for the interesting data on MJ. I know that a skin condition is not exactly fodder for the press. Thus, it would most likely be suppressed as news so they could continue to promote their negative slants to sell papers.

Only with knowledge does understanding ensue. Without facts, people tend to dub in their own interpretations. It is these very interpretations which serve to illuminate each person for how they think, react and act in everyday life. You can tell much by the exact emotion generated in any communication.

For example, how often do we ever hear anything positive in the media? I'd say about two percent of the time. They are vultures, preying off the fact that the masses are more interested in negative news.

It's a sad commentary on the state of humankind IMHO.



"And, in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." Paul McCartney
#734957 - 07/03/09 08:27 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: ben willis]  
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Originally Posted by ben willis
We all knew this was going to happen. Very important news stories are being buried because of the media's obsession with sensationalism and gossip. I think that MJ was a freak, and not worthy of such attention (money talks). His music never rose to the level of Elvis or The Beatles.
Where is his "Hey Jude" moment? There is none. Don't argue "Thriller" or "Bad" because "Hey Jude" lasts for generations. MJ's songs only stay with one generation.
He didn't write. He sang and danced.
I compare him with Sammy Davis Jr. who I have more regard for a show man who showed humility.
This was bound to happen and I'm ready to take the arrows. Ben


Yes his life was a CIRCUS so is it any wonder that his death is a CIRCUS? Of course not. But Ben you couldn't be anymore off on your observations of his music. Michael did WRITE songs! And his talent is so obvious it's not even a debate. He was The REAL deal. He wrote BETTER songs than Elvis. And One generation? Michael Jackson? Are you kidding?lol.

You don't have to sit with a guitar or at a paino to write songs people!
You can walk in the room snap your fingers and start singing GREAT melodies! Then just about ANYONE with half a musical sense puts chords & beats behind it. Michael wrote great melodies and rythyms which is a big part of what great songs are all about.

Besides NO one was,is or will ever be better at popular music than the Beatles. They are Beethoven of there century period!

Don't let all this media get you bummed smile bro. Try to avoid it if possible....I know I know. smile




Thanks!
Peace Mike
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#734960 - 07/03/09 08:39 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Bill Robinson]  
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Ben, you just do not like MJ. I liked some of his music and even sang a tune or two of his in clubs. But, when he transformed himself into a Disney cartoon character, he put a bad taste in my mouth. And all that hoopla about molestation. I do not know. I wasn't there when it happened. lol. I can no longer believe a damn thing from the controlled propaganda the media puts out!


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#734964 - 07/03/09 08:41 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Bill Robinson]  
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Lots of people have cosmetic surgery. Usually this is done as a neccessity to remedy birth defects or major damage received after a disfuguring accident. The people who have this done without any proper reason IMO cannot justify this behaviour.
The cases of plastic surgery addicts are well documented.

Just take a look at photos of MJ as the years passed. Look at him singing "Ben" and then his most recent photos. Tell me all this was neccesary and he did not have a plastic surgery addiction problem.

He admits to having children sleep in his bed while their parents are in an annexe in another part of the mansion. Tell me that is normal and acceptable.

He held a kid with a towel over its head precariously over a balcony and then laughed. Tell me that is normal and not the actions of a freak. Where did the kid come from and who is the mother and father.

Yes he got off with some of the allegations and settled out of court on others which ruined his reputation and finacially made him bankrupt. The fact that he is not in prison is more to do with America having the best legal system money can buy rather than giving a proper fair trial and proving someone guilty or innocent.

#734969 - 07/03/09 09:09 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Jim,
It is certainly not normal to have so much plastic surgery. It is also not normal to do anything that is not the majority rule. I know people who won't eat blue candy, and people who won't talk to anyone with red hair. We all have our individual quirks. So what?
MJ was addicted to surgery. So what? He had problems. Who doesn't?

As for admitting to having children sleep in his bed..well...the act itself is not wrong if the intention is not to harm. I have kids sleep in my bed a lot too. Kids like to sleep with adults. I think that most adults have lost the child-like spirit and do not even tolerate children well at all. To me, THAT is much more reprehensible. But, again, we don't know the true back story. We only know what the press sensationalized.

As for the kid with the towel, well, that was the only thing I saw which made me wonder if MJ was high at the time. But, I guess I'll never know what was behind that either. I let my sister roll off the bed once when we were younger and she fell on her head. If I would have been famous, the headlines would most likely have read, "Singer deliberately bounces sibling on head."

As for his not being in prison, I really believe he was blackmailed and that THAT is the back story on the whole pedophile deal. Even the kid who accused MJ has been quoted as saying MJ didn't do anything and that his father put him up to it.

My question to everyone who condemns MJ is this:

WHY IS IT EASIER TO BELIEVE THE WORST THAN IT IS TO BELIEVE THE BEST IN OTHERS?

If someone can give me a good answer to that one, I'd be very interested. But, then again, THAT is the reason why negative news sells.


"And, in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." Paul McCartney
#734974 - 07/03/09 09:37 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Heidi Thompson]  
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Heidi I hear where you are coming from and agree to a certain extent. That said I was merely putting the other side of the story. MJ was not normal and he did a lot of strange things for whatever reason. There were a lot of allegagtions and bad press. Some of it may be true some of it may not. But to try and maintain that he was innocent and could do no harm is both naive and dangerous especially when children were involved. Too much was happening to make me believe that he was completely innocent.
He was milked like a cow for money and possibly let alone to do things he should not have done by those so called friends who should have not allowed these things to happen.

#734982 - 07/03/09 10:06 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Heidi Thompson]  
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Michael Jackson was in love with childhood. It's been said everywhere, by him, by others, that he was deprived of one, so he made his whole adult world a child's paradise.

Every weekend, children were brought to Neverland for the weekend, mostly from charitable organizations. Most of the time, Jackson wasn't home. When he was home, one of his favorite things to do was to read to children, and bedtime stories were a big deal to him.

Some of you are immediately thinking he did this so he could diddle around with them. And you think that because the court case and the settlement is enough for you to have convicted him of child abuse. Oh well.

But everything I've been reading lately from people who knew him, and his amazing speech at Oxford (HERE), leads me to a very different conclusion.

Isn't there anyone else here who absolutely loves children? Or the simple pleasure of playing with them and reading to them at bedtime? Here's a guy who didn't swear, and wasn't even known for raising his voice...a guy who wanted a chimp to play with, and a snake, and an elephant, and a Ferris wheel. The guy loved childhood, not abusing children. Here's a firsthand example from someone who KNEW the pedophile angle was untrue:

Quote
Once, while we were taking a break, I think we were actually watching the OJ chase on TV, there was a news program talking about him [Jackson] being in Europe with some little boy. I was sitting next to the guy while the news is making this crap up. He just looked at me and said this is what I have to deal with.


Source

I've also been reading accounts of how he was able to write and arrange so many songs without playing an instrument: he would hum every note of the chords, and sing all the parts.

From the same account:

Quote
One morning MJ came in with a new song he had written overnight. We called in a guitar player, and Michael sang every note of every chord to him. "here's the first chord first note, second note, third note. Here's the second chord first note, second note, third note", etc., etc. We then witnessed him giving the most heartfelt and profound vocal performance, live in the control room through an SM57.

He would sing us an entire string arrangement, every part. Steve Porcaro once told me he witnessed MJ doing that with the string section in the room. Had it all in his head, harmony and everything. Not just little eight bar loop ideas. he would actually sing the entire arrangement into a micro-cassette recorder complete with stops and fills.


I was never a crazy fan of Michael Jackson...until lately, when I've been reading so many accounts from engineers and studio people recalling what they knew of him, what an incredible talent he was, and what a gentle person he was. I think his efforts to become someone else, resulting in that botched face, is pretty sad. But a lot of people prefer to point the finger and say freak...much like they do to Susan Boyle.

Was he weird? Yeah! But why is that offensive?

In my mind, he was a songwriter and a performer, one of the best ever. He was one of us.

#734983 - 07/03/09 10:33 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
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"There are 12 notes, only so many combinations, and everything has been written before - Marc"

If I truly believed that Marc, I'd quit composing.

Best, John smile

#734985 - 07/03/09 10:51 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Heidi Thompson Offline
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Heidi Thompson  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,867
NV
Jim,
I do understand your point of view. I also know the innermost workings of the media like the back of my hand, so I know their modus operandi as well. They are ruthless. They look for even the tiniest speck of opportunity to railroad popular persons so that they can make a buck. It is utterly sickening. So, I tend to feel that MJ was wrongfully attacked on the pedophile deal even if there were reasons to feel it possible.

Mark K,
I totally loved your summation of MJ as being "one of us." He was a stellar "one of us!" He had a gift huge enough to change the face of music EVEN despite his being so troubled. Most people with troubles usually justify away their lack of creativity or productivity. He was just the opposite. I've seen musicians say they no longer play or write because of the smallest excuse. Not MJ. He was a creative machine.

I never bought his records but then again, I never bought an Elvis record either. But, I admired both Kings and looked upon them both as Kings in their fields.


"And, in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make." Paul McCartney
#734986 - 07/03/09 10:57 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: Heidi Thompson]  
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 326
lucian Offline
Serious Contributor
lucian  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 326
Camden Town, London
Michael Jackson and his music weren't my cup of tea, but I recognize and respect exceptionally talented individuals and he was most certainly that.

My gut feeling about the man, is that he was essentially a good man, a kind hearted man. A man that didn't ask for the life that was given to him but it was given none the less, and he did his best with it. Regarding the kiddie thing. Again, my hunch is that he was just not a very sexual person, maybe it will come out he'd been impotent his whole life or something like that - and that he liked the company of kids because he missed out on it when he, himself, was a kid. Can you imagine having never played football with your mates after school? Or going to Slough for the first time to nick stuff from the BMX shop? Or Going fishing all night on the Thames in Marlow and sleeping in a tent in a graveyard and someone does that Scooby Doo ghost noise trick on you?

He had a lot of surgery and made himself look more Latino than black - so what? His life, he had the money, good luck to him. He was weird, yes. I'm often been called a little weird, and I quite like being a little weird, because it means you get to know, observe and understand the workings of the non-weird.

I didn't feel overly sad about his death. I think his life reached its natural conclusion.

John LS, I didn't want to let that Marc B quote pass by either. It's the quote people use to excuse why they haven't written a great song yet.

Lucian

#734991 - 07/03/09 11:38 PM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: lucian]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 176
Patti Smith Offline
Serious Contributor
Patti Smith  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 176
Kansas
I had Michael Jackson posters on my wall in 1970. He's been around awhile. He definitely wrote songs. He was brilliant as an entertainer. I saw him in a news story a long time ago saying he wanted to be like Peter Pan, referring to his surgeries. No I don't remember the station or the exact time. It doesn't matter. He was talented, but confused about his life. I think it is sad.


Patti Smith-Lyric writer Wanted CO-WRITERS
#735002 - 07/04/09 12:09 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: lucian]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,106
ben willis Offline
Top 40 Poster
ben willis  Offline
Top 40 Poster

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,106
Ft. Myers, FL. USA
Hey Mike (Sub), sorry if I offended or caused you to to question my own knowledge of MJ. You have more insight of the man than anyone else here. I believe that I corrected myself about the song writing thing when I was called on it by Mark K.

Yes, the question still stands in my own mind. Where is his "Hey Jude" moment. As Big Jim would say (and I'm not speaking for BJ), I find his songs mediocre and not near the level of The Beatles or even Elvis. The early 80's brought in mediocre songs that have lasted to this day.

Heidi, you have kept this thread on subject about the media and MJ. Thanks for that. Now, where are the pictures?

#735004 - 07/04/09 12:29 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: ben willis]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,067
Scott Campbell Offline
Scott Campbell  Offline

Top 10 Poster

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,067
Lakeland, FL, USA
I wouldn't base any arguments on album sales. Look at the post John Daubert started and see how far down Dylan falls on the list.

The thing that makes Elvis, Dylan, The Beatles, and Michael Jackson the icons they are is (in my opinion) not so much album sales but how they influenced the direction of music. Specifically, how they influenced other artists and the music business in general.

To deny that Michael Jackson did not do this in the early 80's seems just plain silly to me. I wasn't a huge fan (though I did respect his abilities) but, man, it seems like it ought to be obvious to anyone paying any attention during that time period.

Scott

#735006 - 07/04/09 12:31 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: ben willis]  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 156
jmsocia Offline
Serious Contributor
jmsocia  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 156
His Hey Jude moment is pretty easy to answer. Of course it was Thriller. For his fans it is. Any disagreement to that is strictly personal opinion.

#735008 - 07/04/09 12:37 AM Re: Media Coverage Of Michael Jackson [Re: jmsocia]  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 156
jmsocia Offline
Serious Contributor
jmsocia  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 156
Scott's exactly right. How anyone could disagree with the fact that he was a genre ''definer'' or ''changer'' is beyond me. Whether you liked him or not.

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