JPF Home Page Forums Musician Gear and Techniques Microphone and Vocalist Forum Help With Hitting the Notes

My singing style is rock, which inevitably requires some "screamy" type of vocals from time to time. My band recently recorded a cover of a song called "Peace Pipe" and while I'm reasonably okay with the verses, when I go to hit the high stuff, I do crack a bit, and I'm not happy at all with the last line of the choruses (burn down the sacred groooooound) where I hold that note out. It just flat out sucks and I don't know why. www.myspace.com/jdjacksonband if you want to take the time to check out the song and tell me what I'm doing wrong. Trying to sing/scream a word like "ground" in a high register probably isn't the easiest anyway. Am I not forming my mouth right?

Hi Polly.
This is my kinda music 60s-70s sounding classic rock .....You sing pretty good and have a tight band....so perhaps you are doing yourself down...I do see room for improvement.....but it certainly does not suck.

Perhaps a key change might help you reach the "ground" bit easier....also a little bit more light and shade in the vocals. Listen to the lead guitar ther is plenty light and shade variation going on. You need to emulate this. If you give 100% volume and effort all through the song you have nowhere left to go to when you really need the extra oomph. When you miss hitting high notes or sound iffy it means you are out of control. Less is sometimes more.

Too much fx on your voice for my liking but that is all down to taste.

Polly,

It sounds to me as if you are tightening your throat. Try a few little exercises. Make yourself yawn. Try to remember the feeling. Your vocal apparatus moves downward and your throat and the area under your chin open up into a bell like on a trumpet. Clear, high singing likes an open structure like that.

Feel your throat above where the adam's apple would be if you were a man. Then make that yawning feeling. You'll feel, as the apparatus drops, that there is a rounded band of bone above the voice box. Sit at a table and CAREFULLY hold your right index finger pointing from right to left, parallel with your shoulders, with your elbow on the table. Then rest your neck and head on that finger, with the finger between the "adam's apple" and that bone (the hyoid bone). Then supporting SOME of the weight of your head on that finger, slowly move that voice box up and down as if yawning and relaxing, allowing you to raise the weight of your head on the finger by the movement in your throat. This exercises the muscles that hold the voice box down and keeps the vocal apparatus from being restricted. Don't overdo it. Maybe start with twenty times every other day, then increase. Those muscles will strengthen. Gradually this will seep into your singing, practically without your trying. Of course do this exercise carefully, don't strain or hurt. If you feel discomfort, use less pressure of the weight of your head on the finger.

Another thing I noticed is that you sang "Hey" on a higher note than ground. So that note is available to you. A trick some singers use is to think as though they are dropping down on to the note rather than reaching up to it. Keep your head up, but don't tilt it back. Think as though you're a puppet with the string right on the very top of your head holding it up, then think that you are dropping down to the notes instead of reaching up for them.

Finally, warm up before you hit high notes. Sing some easy songs for a while. If you have a gig, sing in the car on the way there, all easy notes.

If you continue having trouble with the note, you might want to drop the key, but listening to your "Hey" I think you've got the note, you just tighten the area up when you hit it. Open up when you hit it.

If you get chronic hoarseness or pain, you might want to see a doctor who specializes in the voice. Of course a vocal coach is always a good idea.

Just for the record, my major was the education of vocal music, I've taught voice for years.

(Remember, you are getting this advice from a virtual stranger on the internet. Proceed at your own risk. It's best to have a vocal coach who can watch you and listen to you in person.)

You sound good, keep at it.

All the Best,
Mike

Thank you very much, Jim and Mike! Wow, I didn't know any of that stuff Mike! I did that exercise and felt exactly what you were talking about. I can't believe all these years I was so clueless. You're right, I do tighten up, and on top of it, I'm so paranoid about missing the note that it probably makes things worse. Recording is NOT relaxing to me! LOL

I don't like to ask the band to play in a different key...I feel like it's my job to find a way to reach the notes as required. I probably was holding my head up too high...I'll try lowering the mic.

The point about light and shade was a good one. Dave (the guitarist) and I like to try to "match" like Page and Plant used to. I will pay more attention to that. I do seem to stick to a certain volume when I sing. I didn't really notice it until you said that.

Polly, You're welcome.

As a back up musician and band member, I've always felt it is the band's job to play songs in keys where the singer sounds best. Again, though, I think you've got that note.

I agree with Mike..you just have to practice and loosen up to hit the note....I have sung various style including rock with bands for many years and it is up to the band to cater for the key to suit the singer not the other way around. My band never had a problem changing key if needed.
But hey if you do not ask you do not get...There are some songs where the guitar cannot quite get the right sound or due to the key finger shaping becomes difficult...but they are the exception..only ever come across a few.

Stop smoking that peace pipe

Well maybe I'm a masochist, but I kind of like the challenge of having to make my voice do something it doesn't want to do. And yeah, my guitar player speaks frequently about how the key change would affect his playing. I believe in his sound and wouldn't dream of playing with anyone else...so the burden falls on my ineptness. But I have been doing what "the foot" told me (LOL) and I hope it will strengthen my voice to where I can go for those notes and approach them from the top. A lot of what he said deals with the psychological approach to singing, which I needed to change as far as I was concerned. You both, Jim and Mike, have given great advice which is why I love this site so much! I am honored that you even took the time to go and listen to it and point out what the shortcomings were. I am learning from obviously very experienced musicians and am very grateful.

And Argo, I WOULD smoke the peace pipe, but I can't...for various reasons! LOL I adore cigarettes, but I don't smoke them either. A singer friend of mine and I shared an ultra light cigarette at a benefit show (featuring our own Bob Cushing!!!) and she and I both got a buzz from it because we never smoke! And I LOOOOOVE cigarettes. It's just something I can't do.

Polly,

Don't be a masochist with your voice. Singing loudly beyond your range is a recipe for a damaged voice. If you are hitting notes that hurt or cause you to really push all the time, you should check with a good vocal coach. If you are having pain, you should see a doctor who specializes in voice.

Above all, don't hit those high notes without warming up.

Your guitar player probably won't understand this, but your voice is at least equally and often more important to a band's success than a guitar If he needs the sweet spot for licks, he can find a different sweet spot. There are great sweet spots in G, A, E, D, C, and other keys. One of them will fit your range.

All the Best,
Mike

Well no, I don't want to damage it! I should say I like to challenge myself, but I don't want to do something that's going to hurt me in the long run.

Mike, do you know Larry Hazelbaker (they call him "Haze" in Nashville, played with Darryl Worley)? Anyway, he's going to try to coach me a bit. I never really realized how much I needed it until now.

Polly, I have SO been there and I have even written melodies and recorded demos in which I've known, going in, that I'm going to blow my vocal out, all because I didn't want to change the key. I'm my own worst enemy as a composer and vocalist. In the end, it's not worth it.

I might want to sing something in D#, but Bb is where I need to be. I know what you're saying regarding key changes reflecting the players, but that's what capos are for. When you're performing and you know there's a note coming in the chorus or the bridge that you're afraid of nailing, I call that the "donkey note." If you miss it, you sound like a donkey! LOL. It's all on you as the singer - if you miss that note, you bring the players down with you.

Why risk it? Drop it down a half step or even a whole step, providing you can hit the lows. A song's not worth recording if you can't sing it live. I listened to your songs via the link you provided and I thought you sounded great. But, if you're killing your voice to do what you did, just drop it down.

Polly,

Screaming is absolutely the worse thing you can do to your vocal chords. Any throat doctor will tell you that. Try to avoid it if you want a long and prosperous singing career. It's not going to do your band much good if 6 months out of the year your canceling shows because you have no voice. Even worst than that, if you stretch your vocal chords far enough they can tear or snap, and your days of singing will be a thing of the past. If you like what your doing, and want to continue to do it for years to come, adjust.

Finding a key that best fits your vocal range will benefit everyone involved in the group in the long run, and if your guitar player really values your contribution to the group, he'll do a little transposing.

To be honest with you I sing and play guitar, if My lead guitar player says " I can only play that in this key" too many times, I find a more talented lead guitar player. If he really knows his stuff he'll find a voicing in another key that works.

He can use a capo, change the settings on his amp, and if a string breaks , no big deal, he replaces it. On the other hand, if you break a vocal chord , another set of vocal chords are somewhat more difficult to come by.

Billy Darnell

God Jules, what a beautiful voice! Wow, love your stuff! Beg, Borrow or Steal and Canvas are great. I didn't get a chance to listen to more but I will when I have more time. Good luck to you...you are really good and I hope you make it.

Billy, your stuff sounded good too. I understand what you're saying about screaming and straining the voice. It's a tricky thing with the music I do...and it's music I dearly love. To be honest, I'd rather give it 10 good years of pure Hell and retire doing more mellow stuff, than to have to back off and not give a kick a$$ delivery. But that's just me. I'm not out to conquer the world, just want to play some gigs and maybe collaborate with some writers who need a singer to help get their stuff sold. The most important thing to me, is getting to rock out with the ONE guitar player I've ever played with who matches my tone (and no, he wouldn't use a capo on a rock song iffin you put a gun to his head).

I really did pay attention to what Mike Dunbar (the foot avatar) said about doing exercises to strenghthen the vocal chords. It seems to have helped. I'd actually like to re-record Peace Pipe because now I hit the high notes easier (thanks, Mike!). He says to approach them from the top, versus approaching them nervously (like Jules' "donkey" analogy). I experimented a bit after reading that and "got it".

I think with the music we play, I will always be faced with a bit of pushing the vocals to the limit, but that's the heart and soul of rock and roll. That's the FEELING...and when you're in it, you're in it.

Thank you so much, Polly! The feeling is certainly mutual! : )

You'll be amazed at how your performances will improve by going a little lower - promise. It'll kick even more a$$ and you'll have more power, confidence and control that way! Vocal and breathing exercises are also extremely helpful. Tensing up in fear of the 'donkey note' (LOL) has certainly worked against me!

Hi Polly,

I can't really tell you anything, you probably don't allready know. The song sounds great, but I can hear what you're saying about getting the vox more punchy or screamin'. This sounds like a live recording, but otherwise I would think there are methods to get it done by recording, processing your vox.

If it really is the vocal technique you'd like to work on to get it right for your ears, I know a couple of great ressources that might help you. Catherine Sadolin is a danish singing instructor who has worked out some techniques that might suit your styles very well. The book etc. is available in english - Check out her Utube videos here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1qkiaa15Vg

And her book here:
http://www.completevocalinstitute.com/

Good luck..

Thanks SC. These songs were recorded for a demo cd for clubs. While I can hear anywhere from 5 to 15 punch in possibilities per song, the reason we didn't do that is because we wanted the club owners to know what we sound like live. In fact, I think it was Mark Kaufman who said something in another thread about Autotune and the like, and how it gets to sounding too fake, like there's no human element at all. That got me to thinking...some of the best moments in songs are when the singer falters a little bit because of emotion. That makes the song! When is perfection too much?

I'll check out that vocal coach. That's really what I need, more coaching. I had a friend move back from Nashville who was going to do it, but he's too busy at the moment.

Hi Polly, I'm the LAST person who should be giving vocal advice {not because I suck, but because I break all the rules!} But try to make an effort not to sing louder than your speaking voice {luckily mine is REALLY loud!} I also agree with Mike and Jim that it's up to "guitar boy" to adapt to YOUR range, not the other way around! We all have different ranges, so don't see it as a blow to your pride if you can't hit a certain note. I wish I could go as high as Geddy Lee, but it's not in the cards, so I don't lose sleep over it. {BTW, NO cover tune is worth messing your voice up!}

Bob, you're just really gifted. Yeah, you might break the rules, but you have one of the best voices I've ever heard. Last night was no exception...you delivered a stellar performance and sounded so great! Did you know Duane wants to start a band with me? Interesting, huh?

Anyway, yeah, I've been timid asking Dave to change. He claims the leads won't be the same. You're right, it's not worth blowing my voice out...but I still like to challenge myself. Maybe it's a compromise...vocal coaching PLUS tuning down. I dunno.

Aww Shucks!

There is a way to keep control while slamming that high part you are talking about. After recording a take, play back the tracks at a lower pitch. auto punch in where the problem is and it will be easier to get that high part. Be careful not to bring the instruments' pitch too far down to sing to it because when you play back the dub at the right speed it will sound unnatural. You'll be suprised how much a 2 or 3% pitch drop will help.

There is also autotune...LOL
You still cannot beat the old fashioned method of learning to sing properly and in tune.....I know it is an alien concept to most of the current crop of pop stars to learn any great vocal techniques but it CAN be done with a bit of effort if you have even a little talent.

I have run into the problem of trying to hit notes that are out of my range. Mostly this happens when I am layering vocals to make a harmonized chorus. I like the sound of really high vocals harmonizing to a lead vocal or doo wapping while the lead singer does his part (eg. The beach boys, The beatles). Since I am the only one that records my material, I cheat a little I suppose. I listened to "The natives are restless tonight".....really well put together. I am almost finished re-recording "They'll Say". an original work of mine. Have a listen to this ...I'm interested to see what you would change. Here's the link.... http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=918984

I heard this one before, I think on the MP3 forums...LOVED IT! You sound a lot like Springsteen. I thought the harmonies sounded fine. If you were having trouble with them, it didn't show. I have to hit high notes full voice because I have no falsetto. I can't hit high notes softly, and it sucks because there are times I want to. "Singing in shades" as Big Jim would put it.

Hi John
This does sound like Springsteen. I love the song. Here are some of my thoughts on the production side I am typing as I am listening so thoughts might be a bit disjointed. I think that there is too much FX on the vocals for my liking. It has an almost live feel. Watch your levels as some of it sounds too hot and a bit muddy lacking crispness causing a rumble effect. there is a bit of an imbalance between some of the instruments. Interested to know what you used for drums was it loops or a machine. Hi hat is too up front and it appears there is an echo on the snare and bass that does not match up with other drum parts. I take it you like reverb LOL. There is a lot of light and shade (I think light and shade is the expression Polly was referring to) and lots of expression. Most points are easy fixes.
Re harmonies.....this song really suits harmonies and you have done a pretty good job so far with background. Three part layered works well, think Eagles, but remember that sometimes less is more. Concentrate on harmonies on the odd word or phrase like "say". Overall pretty good song and performance. Needs tweaking on the production side.

One little trick that Justice' vocal teacher suggested is to sing above the note you want and come down on it.


Tom

Hi Polly,

My mom told me that to hit high notes "imagine that you're reaching for the top of your head". Which of course made absolutely zero sense to me until one day I finally hit that note.

Frankly, I'm not hearing anything that would even come close to you having a problem hitting any note.

Just my humble opinion but, you kick!!!
...I'm going back to have another listen :-)

~Karen

May I suggest an exercise to help you practice/warm up and even extend your range...

Pick a note on a guitar/piano you are comfortable at match its key with a LaLaLa, now go up another fret and repeat...do this until you physically can't match up...then go back down a note at a time. This will warm up your vocal and stretch your range over time..