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#711464 - 04/17/09 12:01 PM Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song?  
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matanglawin Offline
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I came across this tidbit at our Manila board Philmusic.

http://www.filipinasoul.com/did-jim-brickman-steal-a-filipino-composers-melody/

You be the judge...



Last edited by matanglawin; 04/17/09 12:10 PM.
#711478 - 04/17/09 12:55 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: matanglawin]  
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He probably didn't "steal" it -- he would have to have known about it to steal it. He may have infringed on the copyright, though -- if Philippines/USA respect each others copyrights in a treaty somewhere.

Kevin


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @ FAWM 2017)
#711506 - 04/17/09 02:16 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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They probably both derived their work from the same song written years ago......there are lots of songs that sound pretty much like those.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#711513 - 04/17/09 02:28 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
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Lynman Bacolor Offline
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Dont add salt to injury. Jim Brickman apologize already. It was an honest mistake.

http://showbizandstyle.inquirer.net...ckman-apologizes-for-using-Pinoys-melody

Nelson will get what is due to him for using his composition. Americans respect that and that song have publisher and they can collect royalties.



#711560 - 04/17/09 05:04 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Colin Ward]  
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matanglawin Offline
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Originally Posted by Colin Ward
They probably both derived their work from the same song written years ago......there are lots of songs that sound pretty much like those.


Hardly. Nelson's song, "If" was written in the 90s.


#711566 - 04/17/09 05:19 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Lynman Bacolor]  
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matanglawin Offline
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Originally Posted by Lynman Bacolor
Dont add salt to injury. Jim Brickman apologize already. It was an honest mistake.

http://showbizandstyle.inquirer.net...ckman-apologizes-for-using-Pinoys-melody

Nelson will get what is due to him for using his composition. Americans respect that and that song have publisher and they can collect royalties.


Guilty, much? Have you already apologized to Shamrock for your own "honest mistake" of plagiarizing their riff?

And, it's "throwing salt on the wound" and "adding insult to Injury."

Or are we going to take this issue "with a grain of salt?"

For one, I'm already aware that Jim apologized, but a tad too late. An apology is terrific, but, that's acknowledging the FACT that he PLAGIARIZED Nelson AFTER adamantly claiming the song to be his own, and all references to that were retroactively removed by Jim/his company from his website. In fact, my initial reaction was, "maybe he bought the rights from Nelson."

Now, Lynman, is an apology really enough these days? Is "compensating the offended party" really enough, when one is caught?

I had respect for Jim Brickman, he's one of the best pianists I actually had the opportunity to listen to aside from Bruce Hornsby, but hey, it's an honest mistake everyone WILL make.

Also, you need not worry. I can assure you no one will plagiarize you. You haven't a good one in your banks to plagiarize...



#711725 - 04/18/09 05:51 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Lynman Bacolor]  
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Darius Babylon Offline
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Originally Posted by Lynman Bacolor
Dont add salt to injury.

Great advice. I'll remember not to eat any salt next time I get a sprained ankle. Or should I take this advice with a grain of sand?

On topic - Brickman's full disclosure is necessary.

#711733 - 04/18/09 06:33 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Darius Babylon]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Pretty song. Love the vocal version. Sounds Bacharachish.

A mistake? That's stretching it.

At least justice seemed to prevail. I bet Jim Brickman's entire catalog will be under scrutiny now. Okay, so maybe it was a mistake. Stealing usually is. Just not an honest mistake.

Apologize accepted. Just don't do it again!

Best, John

P.S. My judgment is solely based on the assumed integrity of the supplied link in the first post. I could have made an "honest" mistake.

#711735 - 04/18/09 07:22 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Darius Babylon]  
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Originally Posted by Darius Babylon
Originally Posted by Lynman Bacolor
Dont add salt to injury.

Great advice. I'll remember not to eat any salt next time I get a sprained ankle. Or should I take this advice with a grain of sand?


Shouldn't that be "dust in your eye?"

Quote
On topic - Brickman's full disclosure is necessary.


No answer from his camp so far. Just the apology.

Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
Pretty song. Love the vocal version. Sounds Bacharachish.


It was well-regarded then because it sounds "foreign."

Quote
A mistake? That's stretching it.

At least justice seemed to prevail. I bet Jim Brickman's entire catalog will be under scrutiny now. Okay, so maybe it was a mistake. Stealing usually is. Just not an honest mistake.

Apologize accepted. Just don't do it again!

Best, John

P.S. My judgment is solely based on the assumed integrity of the supplied link in the first post. I could have made an "honest" mistake.


Good one...

#711756 - 04/18/09 11:43 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: matanglawin]  
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It's an interesting topic.....

When I was judging the JPF music awards, I heard several songs that had melodies similar to ones I had written. On one occasion I heard two songs by different artists that were similar to each other and similar to one of mine. And I had never heard these folk's music before. With only so many notes available, it is bound to happen.

In this case though, the melodies are pretty much in exact agreement. I do believe that Jim Brickman must have heard Nelson's song at some point. I can't conclude that he purposely stole it though.

I never fully bought into the "George Harrison" defense ("He's So Fine", "My Sweet Lord"). Then a couple of years ago I had written a song with a series of verses and a bridge. One day I popped a cassette into my truck player that I hadn't played for awhile. A song came on that had the exact same melody - both in the verse and bridge. The song was one I had heard several times several years earlier.

I was stunned. My immediate thought was - "My God, I'm glad I didn't post that". Ever since then, I have been hyper sensitive about "lifting" melodies.

All I can figure is that the song got into my subconscious and stayed there. I didn't play it enough to move it into my conscious so that I'd later recognize its melody when I "composed" it.

Bottom line for me: If a melody comes too easily, there is probably a reason for it.

So, yes, I believe that an honest mistake like this is possible. Does that mean it happened here? Dunno. I only know it's possible.

If it was an honest mistake, I feel bad for both of them. I expect one of the worst feelings one can have is to be thought of as a thief when you didn't think you were stealing anything. And of course, hearing a melody that you composed being played by someone else without receiving any credit would be horrible as well.

It should be a moot point though - whether or not it was done purposely, the composer of the original melody should either be given credit or financial compensation or some combination of the two. I believe that "My Sweet Lord" is still credited to Harrison but that the composers of "He's So Fine" were given a cut of the profits.

I give Brickman the benefit of the doubt. If he did it unintentionally he's having a real battle going on in his own head right now and is likely do do or say inconsistent things. What matters is how he responds once he has had a chance to think it through. Hopefully, he'll do the right thing.

Scott

#711770 - 04/18/09 12:51 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Scott Campbell]  
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matanglawin Offline
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At Scott,

Very few people know how the senses truly work, that even asleep, we are still open to outside stimuli. It is highly possible for people to hear things in their slumber, say, a few songs, and have it in their minds when they wake up. I don't know what they call this in other countries, but, in Manila/Philippines, we lovingly call this the Last Song Syndrome. We actually remember almost EVERYTHING that come across our way, whether visual or auditory.

As I mentioned, my initial reaction was maybe Jim bought the rights, but any which way, it wasn't really looking to good for him because he was adamant that song was his, and, it was apparent that it was posted in his website via links. Subsequently, those links were taken down, and Jim issued an apology.

This is where the it gets nasty. A LOT of people get plagiarized without even knowing about it.

And, unlike what the good doctor was intimating, we have a few of our countrymen who have plagiarized songs who have done the same thing as either pretending it to be their own, or playing dumb by claiming to have not heard of the ORIGINAL song. Plagiarism, after all is not a regional thing. That's why I posited a question, rather than a straight out statement.

I'm an advocate of originality. Sure, with 12 notes and a million cliches, we all understand that there would eventually be similarities, but, are we going to keep using that excuse, and let bygones be bygones with an apology and a settlement?


#711778 - 04/18/09 01:12 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Scott Campbell]  
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"Tampa Stan" Good (D) Offline
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Quite an Interesting Thread! It's amazing how Copyright & "Ownership" have changed the Music World. In earlier, pre-copyright days, nobody (but the authors, probably) much-cared.

"Westminster Chimes"..undoubtedly the "World's Most-Popular Song" (Yep, it has Words!)...had its 16 Notes lifted from a section of Handel's "My Redeemer Liveth"..lyrics-supplied by a "Dr Crotch" in Londontown. 1787, was the year, best I recollect.

I've heard-tell that America's National Anthem has a melody lifted from an Old English Pub Song, too...

So..yep, maybe some lifting WAS taking place...so..fine, get the Lawyers together & work out the payment plan. Historically, melodies've been lifted since birds learned to chirp.

I guess Lifting's Evil...but how many of the "Finger-Pointers" ever sent in a Check to the Writers of all those songs they've sung "covers"-from?

Back to bein' a Wordsmith...
Best Wishes,
Stan

#711784 - 04/18/09 01:49 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: ]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Westminster Chimes"..undoubtedly the "World's Most-Popular Song" (Yep, it has Words!)...had its 16 Notes lifted from a section of Handel's "My Redeemer Liveth"..lyrics-supplied by a "Dr Crotch" in Londontown. 1787, was the year, best I recollect.

I've heard-tell that America's National Anthem has a melody lifted from an Old English Pub Song, too...


Understood Stan, but the use of public domain material is an entirely different issue.

I've made a Creepy Christmas CD of public domain Xmas songs. I have no problem in that area. I should be so lucky in having composers using my material 200 years from now.

The music in question is pretty much a duplicate copy, not just similar.

Best, John

#711789 - 04/18/09 02:20 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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I'm not really EXCUSING it...just sayin' "Admit Guilt..Settle Up..& Carry On." Oh..& "Negotiate In-Advance..in The Future."

But..as for this Incident bein' a "Career Killer"...or designating this Artist as "Evil from The Get-Go"...I dunno. "Selective Memory" is a pretty Human trait. The Offender has My Sympathy..ditto The Offended. It's a shame that in the Music Biz Today that The Lawyers seem to be making MORE than The Writers.

Back to my Shaddup Mode,
Big Guy-Hug,
Stan

#711798 - 04/18/09 03:25 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: ]  
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matanglawin Offline
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I would hardly call full verses and the chorus from two songs more than a decade apart being EXACTLY the same "some lifting." Nobody's designating anyone here as "evil," but please, we should stop making excuses for plagiarists, whether they are aware of what they're doing or no, whether they deny it or apologize later.

#711813 - 04/18/09 05:15 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: matanglawin]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Online content
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I still think Coldplay infringed on Satriana on their song that won the Grammy song of the year. Anyone know what happended in that case yet?

Brian


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#711814 - 04/18/09 05:17 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: matanglawin]  
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An argument as old as the bible I suspect. If in fact both compositions were exactly the same, shame on someone, however the odds of that happening by mistake are bigger than the odds of winning the lottery.

In response to some stating earlier about how someone had plagiarized a riff, was infringing on the copyright of another, if that were true half of the country artists of today would be so tied up in court, they wouldn't have time to do anything else. Listen to Brooks and Dunn's smash hit "Rock My World Little Country Girl", you cant help but hear the opening riff from Creedence Clearwater Revivals "Green River", Alan Jackson's
"Gone Country"

clearly invoked part of the music from "On the Road To Shambala", you see it over and over again through out music. It never ends up in court because it's not an infringement as defined in the copy right laws. The reason is that the copyright laws say that if you change 8 bars of any musical composition it is a new song. That's all it takes 8 bars.

You see many performers rewrite the arrangement to a popular song so they can perform it in their shows, and literally take credit as the writer for their arrangement. It becomes their version, and they copyright it as such. Really not all the uncommon.

Now who was that idiot that said " Imitation was the greatest form of flattery"?

Billy Darnell

#711859 - 04/18/09 08:10 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Billy Darnell]  
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Lynman Bacolor Offline
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Matang


Will you please stop this nonsense that I plagiarized something.

Your ear is not the expert on this thing.

And regarding my "salt to injury". This is original. The one you suggesting is cliche. Injury can be abrasion, laceration, contusion,you name it brother you can imagine a lot of things. Hey this can be a hoook too for a song.

Concentrate on the topic please humiliating others is not the key here to gain credibility.

Seems what you want from folks here to agree with your preconceived thoughts that all plagiarizer should go to jail.

Were all musician here and sometimes that happens.

You analyzing your music writing too much that is why you are too slow and afraid you might infringe someones work

Lynman

#711875 - 04/18/09 09:16 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Lynman Bacolor]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Hi Lynman,

I'm not sure how you fit into this issue, but I'm only replying to the Jim Brickman issue which was more or less a carbon copy of Nelson's song.

As far as similarities in a riff (or similarities in general), I wouldn't give that a second thought.

I'm sure all of us have similarities with other composer's music. We're all using the same raw materials. It's gotta happen. Let him without similarities cast the first stone.

But when it's such a close match as the Brickman/Nelson matter, that's another story altogether. It would be difficult to convince me it was accidental that Brickman mistakenly copied note for note (including the bridge) of Nelson's song.

Best, John

#711886 - 04/18/09 10:07 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Lynman Bacolor]  
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Darius Babylon Offline
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Originally Posted by Lynman Bacolor


And regarding my "salt to injury". This is original. The one you suggesting is cliche.

OT
This is just hilarious. Let me educate you.

I think you meant to say "don't make things worse". The proper and accepted idiomatic expression (never a cliche)there is "don't add insult to injury". The wires got screwed up somehow.

When you say "don't add salt to injury"- that's a big whoah. Adding salt to an injury, like a laceration for example, will make things better. Salt is usually used to kill or hamper the growth of microorganisms and germs. So you're saying, "don't make things better"?

#711888 - 04/18/09 10:17 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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John

Im answering to the poster of this issue.
This poster really loves to throw stones to somebody in every forum without necessary affiliations.
I have experienced in the past by this poster. Hope you will not be his next victim.

This is really a close match In my point of view. But what can brickman say to this composer is to accept his fault and he did it. End of story. Let their individual publisher discuss things and settle their problems peacefully and legally.

Lynman


#711892 - 04/18/09 10:26 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Lynman Bacolor]  
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Lynman Bacolor Offline
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OFF topic

Darius

Have you ever try to put salt in your wound especially the table salt in your kitchen? Isnt it painful? Thats what im talking about.

I agree there is antimicrobial property of salt but again this is a prehistoric way of treating wound. There so many available wound solution in the market that can address the bacteria with faster healing properties too. Strong salt solution can destroy the cell and further add more dead tissue in the healing process.


#711897 - 04/18/09 10:38 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Lynman Bacolor]  
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Originally Posted by Lynman Bacolor
John

Im answering to the poster of this issue.
This poster really loves to throw stones to somebody in every forum without necessary affiliations.
I have experienced in the past by this poster. Hope you will not be his next victim.

This is really a close match In my point of view. But what can brickman say to this composer is to accept his fault and he did it. End of story. Let their individual publisher discuss things and settle their problems peacefully and legally.

Lynman


I agree. This is the end of my participation on this subject.

Apparently the legal system in place works since Nelson is getting the recognition and compensation - not to mention an apology.

John smile

#711902 - 04/18/09 10:55 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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John
Im not a lawyer but so far our legal system especially copyright issues are much the same since majority of our laws came from your country.
Anyway this is our life as a musician and we cant prevent it.
Lynman

#711904 - 04/18/09 11:06 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Lynman Bacolor]  
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Another off topic

Matang

Pls teach your pal darius. He is so ignorant in his letter to me.
Tell him I have a doctorate degree in wound healing. Thats my expertise. I also have a degree in microbiology and parasitology too. Tell him for me that there still bacteria that can survive in high salinity environment that can cause human maladies.

Lynman

#711905 - 04/18/09 11:07 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Lynman Bacolor]  
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Darius Babylon Offline
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Originally Posted by Lynman Bacolor

Have you ever try to put salt in your wound especially the table salt in your kitchen? Isnt it painful? Thats what im talking about.


Don't work too hard weaseling your way out of this. I'll just congratulate you for inventing a new idiomatic expression. Very similar to "Don't judge my brother, he is not a book"

Thanks for the laughs.


#711906 - 04/18/09 11:10 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
I still think Coldplay infringed on Satriana on their song that won the Grammy song of the year. Anyone know what happended in that case yet?


They should check with New Order's "Bizarre Love Triangle" too, which sounds similar to "Viva La Vida" as well. Was New Order infringed by Satch? Who was then infringed by Coldplay? Who'll be infringed by the next guy who uses the C-D-G-Em chord progression?

I still think the Satch case is a case of a has-been trying to ride the coat-tails of the current holder of "the biggest band in the world" title.

#711907 - 04/18/09 11:11 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Darius Babylon]  
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Darius

Im not weaseling out. Im coining new terms. This is my style and you noticed it.

Lynman

#711908 - 04/18/09 11:18 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Darius Babylon]  
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haha. Wow...some many people have used that melody before Coldplay did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxSIAXGakuk&feature=related

#711909 - 04/18/09 11:23 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Stevens119]  
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Darius Babylon Offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTp0P5xMHog
"Hearts" by Marty Balin, 1981.
Is this where Satch got his riff?

#711960 - 04/19/09 04:24 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Darius Babylon]  
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So, adding salt to say, broken bones inside an otherwise unbroken skin will make it hurt even more?

Okay.

But, sad to say, Lynnie, your "original" isn't only incorrect idiomatically speaking.

As for you plagiarizing, here you are, clearly just accepting Jim's apology for his "honest mistake."

You see, a lot of so-called songwriters are now aware of the "4-melodic bars" rule and are abusing it. So, they're "safe" as long as they don't use more than 4 bars.

Just like what you did with Alipin. I don't need to prove it. The videos were enough proof.

I'm not a prolific writer, because, unlike you, I don't force songs out. I let them "write themselves." You can NEVER understand this concept, because your drive to write music was never about the music.

Word of advice: Please stop replying to issues you know nothing about or even guilty of. Your doctorate here has nothing to do with the issue, so do refrain from dropping your PhD or MD each and every time.


#711964 - 04/19/09 04:29 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Lynman Bacolor]  
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Darius Babylon Offline
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Originally Posted by Lynman Bacolor

Tell him I have a doctorate degree in wound healing. Thats my expertise. I also have a degree in microbiology and parasitology too. Tell him for me that there still bacteria that can survive in high salinity environment that can cause human maladies.



who's "originally coined quote" was it again?
So your name should have a suffix, Wound Healing PhD?
What's your IQ again?
Which school did you graduate from, again?
If this ends up as a pissing contest, I'd guarantee that you'd lose.

#711966 - 04/19/09 04:38 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Darius Babylon]  
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Darius,

He wasn't coining new terms, technically speaking. A sentence is not a term, unless we're talking about a jail sentence.

Maybe now he's "licking his wounds..."

#711977 - 04/19/09 05:25 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: matanglawin]  
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Actually we discussed the Heart's similarity and the other infringement case at length on another post.

As for Darius and Matanglawin and Lyman, please take your personal issues off line. Using the topic to launch into attacks isn't appropriate, neither is 2 people ganging up on 1 and saying basically the same things. The issue you're bitching about was NOT a case of legal infringement. Copying, intentionally or accidentally, a musical riff happens commonly across all genres of music. It's really not a big deal. Once it was pointed out, the person in question voluntarily acknowledged the mistake and moved on. You should too. If you keep hounding members here like you are, I'll ask you both to leave. Matanglawin, you already agreed to drop the topic so please honor that promise or leave.

Brian


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#711980 - 04/19/09 05:42 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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Brian,

We're not bitching, and this IS NOT personal, but a professional stance.. I urge you to visit the links I gave before. As Fellow Filipinos, we believe we should be moderated by someone who is level-headed and at least KNOWLEDGEABLE in music. Please don't make him a moderator of the PhBoard just because he's a Filipino. We'd rather have someone else, and it doesn't matter if the person is a Filipino or not.

I have dropped the issue, hence my long absence, but, he reopened it after "winning" at the PhilDigi Awards. He reopened it to gloat by posting in a supposedly dead issue about one of his songs which contained a plagiarized riff.

He's abusing his moderating our posts at the Philippine board by editing our posts, simply because he doesn't like to be quoted.

When I first posted this issue, this was about Jim and Nelson and the song in question. I had no intent whatsoever to make this about him, but that's what he's been doing here and on other boards.

He replied that way, because he IS guilty himself of plagiarizing.

You haven't met him personally, but I have. That should at least count for something.

Also, please take note that Darius and I have been contributing positively, as much as possible avoiding his post, but, as you can see, he's trolling us with flame baits, above and beyond his duty as a moderator.


#711983 - 04/19/09 05:51 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: matanglawin]  
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Actually there would be no Phillipines board if not for Lynman. He was the first and only person to ask for one to be set up. The moderator function is simply a technical one, it's not political nor does it offer any real power. Volunteers who step up and offer are welcome to become moderators in any city they want as long as they stay involved. He's done that. And he's been quite involved in many other areas of the board that are much more active. You guys are welcome to do the same. But your obvious hatred of Lynman has been duly noted and no one benefits from you beating the very dead horse. I was involved in the discussion at the time it happened and it was acknowledged that the musical riff at the start of the song was the same. Big deal. It was acknowledged and there was no legal violation nor was any harm done to anyone. If you write and record a lot, odds are that you will eventually use a riff someone else has used. If you discover it or are made aware of it, then you change it and move on. I haven't seen any example of him not moving on. What I have seen, however, is a vendetta from you and now your friend Darius to continue to attack someone who is well liked in our community. He's given far more than he's taken and that's as much as we can ask. Lynman is not going anywhere, especially when the request comes from someone who's acting like a school yard bully. Enough. It's tiring and I have far more important things to with my time than monitor the school yard. Move on to other things. If you can't handle being on this site at the same time as Lynman, then go elsewhere. To his credit, he has never asked that either of you be removed from the site even though you continue to attack him.

Brian


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#711984 - 04/19/09 06:08 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Brian Austin Whitney]  
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That's exactly what I mean, Brian. He's a moderator by default, just because he's the first one. He may be an angel here, but check his recent posts. He's as guilty bullying us and flame baiting even if Darius and I have been avoiding him. He's also been gloating about his "win" in SPh and is behaving very badly, not that it's any of your concern, but I hope it sheds light with regards to HIS overall character.

Are you going to wait for him to make more mistakes?

And please, I don't "hate" Lynman, I'm not here to attack him, as I have "been gone for a while," but neither will I allow him to represent Filipinos the way he does, as if we haven't enough Filipinos like him across the globe.

I'm dropping it, for now. But, please do give the same advice to Lynman. He seems to listen to you more than he does other people even though those people know better than he does. To his credit, no amount of attacks to his person (again, this is NOT personal) affects him anyways.


#711990 - 04/19/09 06:53 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: matanglawin]  
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Go ahead and ban me then because I'm not backing off.

This guy is the bully here. An example, I'm being very informative in this thread and then he comes up with his ignorant nonsense :
http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/711970/Main/78430/#Post711970

One click on my sig will show how he maligned someone who's very well respected in the Philippine music industry (sort of like a local Quincy Jones). It's in tagalog and you'll need a username/password so I can PM that to you if you're interested. We can also have someone translate it.

So ban me, but I will continue to write here TRUTHFULLY as long as I can.

#711996 - 04/19/09 08:35 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Darius Babylon]  
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I concur with Darius, on who's doing the REAL bullying.

On topic.

To properly cite an age-old adage, "where there's smoke, there's fire."

Sure, plagiarism happens all the time, because people always think they can get away with it. What ticked me off with Jim though is that he defended his position that the song was his, then later recanted and apologized. I shudder to think that I'll hear one of mine under another composer name, although, since it has happened to me before, I'm already prepared that it can happen again.

It is truly sad, that all we can do is accept his apology, and wait for the next plagiarized hit. But as songwriters, we should all be aware of what we do. When I write, I am always conscious first and foremost, if it sounds too much like an already existing song, so I I ask different people, the LISTENERS, if they can recognize any other songs. I've ditched a few songs just because of that, though, I did save the lyrics.

I honestly don't want to apologize later for one of mine songs and make excuses for it that it's "an honest mistake."


#711997 - 04/19/09 08:58 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Darius Babylon]  
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It appears to me that this isn't really about being truthful Brian.

I have seen honesty and truthfulness time and time again through out this forum, and generally it is appreciated.

When you use the truth to demean another person time and time again, in public, it becomes malicious in it's intent, and that constitutes harassment.

I don't know much about law in the Phillipines, but under Civil law here, in the US, that is considered malicious Slander, and in a criminal aspect it would be viewed as harassment.

Personally I have read many of Lynmans postings here at the site, and have always known him to be a selfless contributor.

I also noticed that he has chosen not to lower himself to the level of the others, and for that I say, I admire his self control, and his courage. Thank you Lynman for not going there.

And that's the truth so help me god. ( I too felt the urge to point out that I only try and speak the truth, and maybe by pointing that out, it might become even more truthful...LMHO )

Billy Darnell

#711998 - 04/19/09 09:15 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Billy Darnell]  
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I guess his posts at Darius' thread wasn't malicious, and Darius and I are just here to malign a good person, right?

I guess his insults in the Philippine board, since he's a positive contributor here, aren't enough to define his overall character. I guess his unprovoked comments against myself and Darius aren't enough to "lower his level."

I guess, like Brian said, since he volunteered, he a moderator by default.

Or, maybe you haven't read ALL of his posts. I suggest you do.

We're not using the truth here to malign Lynman, hes doing quite a good job of that himself. But I wouldn't stand for his insults, especially when he started gloating AFTER winning an award where he voted for himself. Now, we're no better than he is because of that award, but please, do tell me if you've read THAT part in the Philippine board.

Again, I've MET Lynman in person. He might seem "good" here to all of you, but he has a very bad reputation over here in Manila.

So, sure. I've said I'll drop it, and have put the topic back on track, but, if Brian or anyone else here does maintain a blind eye towards Lynman because the doc is a "positive contributor," what can we lower level lifeforms do? You can ban the both of us and keep Lynman because he's such a good little boy, but that will NOT change the fact that his character over here in Manila is LESS than ideal as how you see him here in JPF.

#712003 - 04/19/09 10:11 AM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: matanglawin]  
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"Again, I've MET Lynman in person. He might seem "good" here to all of you, but he has a very bad reputation over here in Manila."

Sorry Mantan, you obviously missed the point. It doesn't matter that what you say is the truth as you and some others may see it.

When you post threads to open up a subject that is going to eventually become a vehicle for you and your buddy to open up an old wound, and then you continuously reiterate what you see as the truth in an effort to demean another person, in a public forum, that under any definition is harassment.

Even if it's the truth , when it is used in a public forum to demean, and hurt the reputation of another individual, it is Malicious in it's intent. and thus Malicious slander.

It's not the truth I have a problem with, I am all for the truth.I have a problem when anyone uses what he perceives to be the truth in a malicious manner, and that is what is happening here.

I am all about you having the right to your opinion, but not for your right to force your opinions on to others because you believe it to be true.

I guess when god calls me up the mountain, and has me chisel onto a stone tablet the 11th commandment that says, "Mantan is the teller of all truths, and has been blessed by the holy spirit with the ability to know what truth is in the hearts of all men, and I here by pass on to him , the right to judge, and mandate sentencing in all matters of the truth on the Earth." I'll accept you as the final word, but till then, I think I'll keep letting the good lord do his job.

Have you ever heard the statements, " Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.", and "Vengance is mine sayeth the lord", I personally believe plagiarizing his authority can be detrimental to ones quality of life.

Durn there's that word again...seems it just doesn't apply to music.

Besides if you spend all your time judging the actions of others, and trying to point out the short comings of others, when you going to write that great song?

Billy Darnell



#712041 - 04/19/09 12:32 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Billy Darnell]  
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And what about "the only way for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." For the longest time, I've not heard anyone deny or refuse the truth when it's laid down to them.

Again, I posted this thread about Jim Brickman plagiarizing a Filipino song written by Nelson del Castillo, yet, here we are discussing the merits of the truth regarding Lynman Bacolor. If you read his first post in this thread, he defended Jim merely because the latter apologized.

He (Lynman) posted a plagiarized riff in a public forum, it's only pertinent that it be exposed in a public forum. So, though I respect your opinion, I certainly did not intend for this thread to be about Lynman.

And sorry, Billy. I'm no fan of the "cast first stone" story, but I remember a joke about it. Let me relate a shortened version.

Jesus, intervening to stop the common folk from stoning a woman of character to death, said "whoever among you is without sin, cast the first stone."

A moment of silence, a relieved, Jesus relaxed. Just as he did, he glanced upon someone who picked up a stone, and felt the whizzing of it as the stone barely missed him, and landed smack on the woman's face.

Surprised, Jesus looked at the direction where the stone came from and exclaimed "MOTHER!"


God has nothing to do with this issue. Certainly, god didn't urge Jim Brickman, whose has inspirational if not gospel songs under his belt, to commit plagiarism now, did it?

Quote
Durn there's that word again...seems it just doesn't apply to music.


And neither is a degree in medicine, which, Lynman ALWAYS manages to remind us all each and every time his 'expertise" come in question...


#712057 - 04/19/09 01:37 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: matanglawin]  
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Ive known matang here. In fact during our plan to release a compilation album of budding songwriters he was there. But his vendetta attitude to all the people who wronged him with ala simon cowell sarcasm we decided to derail him and put him out of the picture. Actually when you listen to this guy he is like a parasite. we call him an emotional vampire. He will suck your energy and bleed you to death. Even the moderator of our own songwriterPH forum here in the philippines is afraid to this guy the said moderator and founder is afraid to be humiliated online.

Our first clash with this guy is in our Yahoogroups called KATHA a email group of songwriters in the philippines. He was kicked out on the said group because we have a debate and things heated up with this kind of personal harrasment by him. From then on he followed me everywhere I go.

I still made peace to this guy after all i said to him we are all brother in the music world so I wooed him to include his song even without his song undergoes screening. But his attitude towards the company especially our publishing contract of 5 years seems not on his liking. In other words he doesnt want his song be subjected for commercial purposes like earning royalties. Kind a weird.

Matang attacks with your writing because this is only his advantage. His writings was never been used for good of the community, mostly used for putting down ones person. He criticize your writing style and he complains a lot. He complains like hell especially if he is in the position to complain.

Theres this one female songwriter he destroyed in a newly created local forum of songwriters. Actually she was bullied in the said forum and matang uses all his sharp words to discredit the poor songwriter. I left the forum after that incident.

He always said it to all the people he met that he once robbed with a song. But no case was filed because he was no proof afterall.

He always said that he was a professional songwriter and he was here in the industry for almost 20 years. Older than the rest of us.

My advice to all of you. NEver cross this guy path unless you really want some fun. YOu can poked this guy to death. A little rewarding sometimes

Lynman

#712069 - 04/19/09 02:11 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: matanglawin]  
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If you say so Matan, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for the joke, now that's what the world needs a little more humor!

Though I truly believe god has everything to do , with all issues, but that's a subject for another debate I am sure.

Once again I don't believe you can steal a riff, and if that's all he did, you better start writing a lot of letters...lol.

Any ways , it was good speaking with you, and debating the issue's at hand, which were the Harassment, and malicious slander. I could point out two wrongs don't make a right, but considering the obvious distainment you have within you on this subject, it wouldn't make any difference, so I won't. I've said what I had to say and I'll leave it lie at that.

I just hope the next time I read something you had to say,that your telling jokes again, because at least then everyone will have a good reason for laughing at you my friend.

I don't have a degree in medicine , but I'll offer this expertise take two Midol and call me in the morning.

Take care, good luck, and God Bless.

Billy Darnell





#712072 - 04/19/09 02:20 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Lynman Bacolor]  
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Originally Posted by Lynman Bacolor
Ive known matang here. In fact during our plan to release a compilation album of budding songwriters he was there. But his vendetta attitude to all the people who wronged him with ala simon cowell sarcasm we decided to derail him and put him out of the picture. Actually when you listen to this guy he is like a parasite. we call him an emotional vampire. He will suck your energy and bleed you to death. Even the moderator of our own songwriterPH forum here in the philippines is afraid to this guy the said moderator and founder is afraid to be humiliated online.

Our first clash with this guy is in our Yahoogroups called KATHA a email group of songwriters in the philippines. He was kicked out on the said group because we have a debate and things heated up with this kind of personal harrasment by him. From then on he followed me everywhere I go.

I still made peace to this guy after all i said to him we are all brother in the music world so I wooed him to include his song even without his song undergoes screening. But his attitude towards the company especially our publishing contract of 5 years seems not on his liking. In other words he doesnt want his song be subjected for commercial purposes like earning royalties. Kind a weird.

Matang attacks with your writing because this is only his advantage. His writings was never been used for good of the community, mostly used for putting down ones person. He criticize your writing style and he complains a lot. He complains like hell especially if he is in the position to complain.

Theres this one female songwriter he destroyed in a newly created local forum of songwriters. Actually she was bullied in the said forum and matang uses all his sharp words to discredit the poor songwriter. I left the forum after that incident.

He always said it to all the people he met that he once robbed with a song. But no case was filed because he was no proof afterall.

He always said that he was a professional songwriter and he was here in the industry for almost 20 years. Older than the rest of us.

My advice to all of you. NEver cross this guy path unless you really want some fun. YOu can poked this guy to death. A little rewarding sometimes

Lynman


Brian,

Is this the person, the positive contributor, that you are willing to defend? He has now FABRICATED lies and twisted the truth to his own benefit just so he can have an argument.

To wit;

Quote
Ive known matang here. In fact during our plan to release a compilation album of budding songwriters he was there. But his vendetta attitude to all the people who wronged him with ala simon cowell sarcasm we decided to derail him and put him out of the picture. Actually when you listen to this guy he is like a parasite. we call him an emotional vampire. He will suck your energy and bleed you to death.


Yes, Lynman. My PROFESSIONAL opinion and critique regarding your songs having the same melodies and chords is vendetta at the time we first met. Sorry, dude, but, please do not do a 180. I was the one who backed out of the compilation because of the 3-year condition, especially after you've done things BEHIND my back.

That's NOT the issue here, though, but, since you've opted to lie in order to defend yourself...

Quote
He will suck your energy and bleed you to death. Even the moderator of our own songwriterPH forum here in the philippines is afraid to this guy the said moderator and founder is afraid to be humiliated online.


The Administrator of SongwritersPh is a good friend, and we frequently discuss your shannanigans in all the forums, especially your version of the Songwriters Challenge at PhilMusic, and your incorrect use of terminologies. I think that's enough reason.

Quote
He always said that he was a professional songwriter and he was here in the industry for almost 20 years. Older than the rest of us.


Are you contesting my status as a professional, or have you just run out of issues to argue on?

I'm 40 years old. I started writing poems when I was 6, translated songs when I was in high school, writing mine own when I was in college, and had my very first royalty payment when I was 20.

Quote
He always said it to all the people he met that he once robbed with a song. But no case was filed because he was no proof afterall.


Sentence construction, Lynman, and this is exactly why a doctor has to have good grammar. Lemme rephrase it for you.

"He always tells people he meets that one of his songs was "stolen" from him."

I was the one who was "infringed." And where did you get that idea that there wasn't a case? Clearly, that's not what I have told you or everyone else, and it was a case handled by a KATHA lawyer. I still have the prosecutor's typewritten verdict somewhere.

Quote
Our first clash with this guy is in our Yahoogroups called KATHA a email group of songwriters in the philippines. He was kicked out on the said group because we have a debate and things heated up with this kind of personal harrasment by him. From then on he followed me everywhere I go.


No, Lynman, I'm a founding member of KATHA. I wasn't kicked out. Just prevented from posting mainly because people at the time didn't want to hear the truth anymore.

And I'm sorry, I'm not following you "wherever you go." I've been a member of PhilMusic long before you have and have in fact suggested it to you when we first met. I also suggested loading your songs up at Soundclick, remember?

Quote
Theres this one female songwriter he destroyed in a newly created local forum of songwriters. Actually she was bullied in the said forum and matang uses all his sharp words to discredit the poor songwriter.


Because, like you, she was ignorant of the copyright law, accused an innocent person of infringement, and shunned her friends within the forum.

Quote
I left the forum after that incident.


No you didn't. You're still there posting, gloating about your PDA win. The incident was last February, and your most recent post I saw was last March.

#712075 - 04/19/09 02:25 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Lynman Bacolor]  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,222
Lynman Bacolor Offline
Lynman Bacolor  Offline


Top 200 Poster

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,222
Caloocan, Philippines
Darius

We are not banning you. Even if we ban you, you can make another membership name and be folks again.

Also dont pirate folks here to visit your bully dominated forum just to view your so called humiliation thread just for me.

Lynman

#712076 - 04/19/09 02:27 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Lynman Bacolor]  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,222
Lynman Bacolor Offline
Lynman Bacolor  Offline


Top 200 Poster

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,222
Caloocan, Philippines
Matang

I know your lawyer. In fact I arranged one of his song. I will tell him. I think you havent pay him yet especially your consultations about your case. I will follow up just ready your payment too.

No need to defend my accusations matang this is a fact. A lot of Filpino I knew in the music industry here recognizes you and this is their testimonies. No wonder you never won in any seat in KATHA. YOu just kicked out too.

So you really bully the gal for being ignorant. Hmm I think you are ignorant with the copyright law. YOu have no legal expertise. Not a lawyer too.

SO youre the lurker now. I rest my case

Lynman

#712078 - 04/19/09 02:29 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Billy Darnell]  
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 185
matanglawin Offline
Serious Contributor
matanglawin  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 185
Originally Posted by Billy Darnell
If you say so Matan, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for the joke, now that's what the world needs a little more humor!

Though I truly believe god has everything to do , with all issues, but that's a subject for another debate I am sure.


Truly another issue, but, god has nothing to with it.

Quote
Once again I don't believe you can steal a riff, and if that's all he did, you better start writing a lot of letters...lol.


Yes, Billy. That's the most common excuse. One can't steal a riff, so one will just copy it.

Quote
Any ways , it was good speaking with you, and debating the issue's at hand, which were the Harassment, and malicious slander. I could point out two wrongs don't make a right, but considering the obvious distainment you have within you on this subject, it wouldn't make any difference, so I won't. I've said what I had to say and I'll leave it lie at that.


For one, I'd really slap my face if I am found guilty of even copying a riff. But I was hardly committing slander here. Slander is speaking ill of someone without the BENEFIT of proof. We have proof. We have presented proof. And some of it comes from the mouth of the guilty.

Quote
I just hope the next time I read something you had to say,that your telling jokes again, because at least then everyone will have a good reason for laughing at you my friend.


Oh, I think slipping that joke in should be enough to tell you I'm not always serious, but I am serious when it comes to serious matters, like infringement.

Quote
I don't have a degree in medicine , but I'll offer this expertise take two Midol and call me in the morning.


I'm no doctor either, but I'm pretty sure I'm not having pre-menstrual cramps.


#712081 - 04/19/09 02:36 PM Re: Did Jim Brickman plagiarize a Filipino Song? [Re: Lynman Bacolor]  
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 185
matanglawin Offline
Serious Contributor
matanglawin  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 185
Originally Posted by Lynman Bacolor
Matang

SO youre the lurker now. I rest my case.

Lynman


Here's another lesson for you. There's a difference between being INACTIVE and being a lurker.

Look it up.

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Moderated by  Lynman Bacolor 

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