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#705589 - 03/27/09 03:00 PM Writing a song that you can't finish?  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,890
PopTodd Offline
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PopTodd  Offline
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Posts: 2,890
Western Springs, IL, USA
Call the
"Fountains Of Wayne Hotline"

They'll give you some ideas.
So dead-on. I love it.

#705625 - 03/27/09 05:36 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: PopTodd]  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,242
Sam Wilson Offline
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Sam Wilson  Offline
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Nashville, TN USA
Why the hell should I call this hotline when so many great writers are right here with me? wink

Really, I use rhymezone and/or a thesaurus when I need a little help, but that's about it.
I have repeatedly left my self open to co-write with anyone, but only a few have taken said plunge and worked with me.

I do thank you for the post, it's a great idea, and it may be just what some people need to get their pieces completed.

For me, it's not online tools that I need, it's the heart and soul of another artist.



Co-Write Friendly.....Look at my blog on My Space.

http://www.cherokee46x@yahoo.com
http://www.myspace.com/ronnievanzantfan
http://www.facebook.com/sambwilson

Ronnie Van Zant fan
#705626 - 03/27/09 05:41 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Sam Wilson]  
Joined: Jun 2001
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PopTodd Offline
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PopTodd  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Western Springs, IL, USA
Originally Posted by Sam Wilson
Why the hell should I call this hotline when so many great writers are right here with me? wink

Really, I use rhymezone and/or a thesaurus when I need a little help, but that's about it.
I have repeatedly left my self open to co-write with anyone, but only a few have taken said plunge and worked with me.

I do thank you for the post, it's a great idea, and it may be just what some people need to get their pieces completed.

For me, it's not online tools that I need, it's the heart and soul of another artist.



Sam.
Click the link.
It's not what you think.

Oh, fine...
there's a song there, about halfway down the page... you can stream it.
the song is called "Fountains Of Wayne Hotline" and it's a brilliant piece of satire.

Seriously.
Click it!

#705628 - 03/27/09 05:48 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: PopTodd]  
Joined: Nov 2003
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Joe Wrabek Offline
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Joe Wrabek  Offline
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Garibaldi, OR USA
It's cute, P.T.

Have to say I do it already, after a fashion, and it doesn't always work. I'm forever asking myself, "Okay, how would Emmylou Harris (for instance) finish this? Okay, if she gave up, or got grossed out by the dead animals, how about Bob Dylan?"

Joe

#705705 - 03/28/09 02:09 AM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Joe Wrabek]  
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Lynn Orloff Offline
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Lynn Orloff  Offline
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PA of the great USA
Never wrote a lyric I couldn't finish, goes against my religion. However I do have some lyrics without melodies, so in that respect they are unfinished. smile


My Music at Soundclick
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=788266

~call it a blessing or call it a curse, but I see all of life in verse~

Always open to collaborations smile

God Bless Our Military!!!
#705769 - 03/28/09 12:25 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Lynn Orloff]  
Joined: Feb 2005
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Dave Rice Offline
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Dave Rice  Offline
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Texas
Thanks for sharing PT:

Full shred country... now that's original... sorta! LOL!

Best,

Dave

http://www.ShowCaseYourMusic.com/DaveRice

#705794 - 03/28/09 01:42 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Dave Rice]  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,179
Tom Shea Offline
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Tom Shea  Offline
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Nebraska
Oh yea..... I was looking through several unfinished songs the other day - and threw most of them away. To me, there is no satisfaction in an unfinished song. I like closure.

Tom


Thomas Shea

Thomas Shea - Songwriting
http://www.soundclick.com/thomasshea

Justice - Songs
http://www.soundclick.com/justice-nebraska

#705807 - 03/28/09 02:37 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Tom Shea]  
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DonnaMarilyn Offline
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DonnaMarilyn  Offline
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Netherlands
Great link! grin Thanks for sharing it.

Donna


Honour the Earth. Without it, we'd be nowhere.

Life is too important to take seriously.

http://www.reverbnation.com/donnamarilynrichblend




#705843 - 03/28/09 06:30 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: PopTodd]  
Joined: May 2004
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Sam Wilson Offline
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Sam Wilson  Offline
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Nashville, TN USA
Why the hell should I call this hotline when so many great writers are right here with me? wink

Actually, the above question from my earlier post was meant as a joke...I thought that people might take it as a funny little compliment...

As for the hotline link, I'll check it out.....Thanks for the heads-up!



Co-Write Friendly.....Look at my blog on My Space.

http://www.cherokee46x@yahoo.com
http://www.myspace.com/ronnievanzantfan
http://www.facebook.com/sambwilson

Ronnie Van Zant fan
#705852 - 03/28/09 07:31 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Sam Wilson]  
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"Tampa Stan" Good (D) Offline
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"Tampa Stan" Good (D)  Offline
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Tampa, Florida since 1973
Thanks Pop!

Enjoyed the Heck out of it...(& that Video for "Stacy's Mom"...truly Brilliant/Totally Fun!)

Whee..."Oh, it's THAT Gerald".. What a HOOT~
Best Weekend Wishes & a Big I.O.U. Guy-Hug,
Stan

#705960 - 03/29/09 06:58 AM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: ]  
Joined: Feb 2001
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Two Singers Offline
Two Singers  Offline

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Usually At Home
I have a bunch of unfinished songs. I never throw them away. Some have been gathering dust for many years. But about two or three times each year, I finish one of said culprits. Also, just because I didn't/couldn't finish it doesn't mean that there are no good lines, hooks, ideas in them. I might cannibalize them for a future project. One of the best songs I ever wrote was finished in 20 minutes...lyric and music. Another one of my really good ones was 6 years in the making.

Nothing I write for music or one of my novels ever gets thrown away.

I have 6 folder son my computer desktop with various types of unfinished songs. I visit those folders at least once weekly. The labels: "Good Lyric, No Music", "Good Music, No Lyric", "Lyric & Music...Lyric sucks", "Lyric & Music...Music Sucks", "Lyric & Music...Both Suck", "Bits & Pieces".

Wishing you everything good.

Alan

#706114 - 03/29/09 09:49 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Two Singers]  
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Dave Rice Offline
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Dave Rice  Offline
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Posts: 7,302
Texas
I'm with Al... I never throw a song away. No matter how crappy it may sound or how terrible the lyric may be. After all, it represents an investment of sorts. I simply file it away after cataloging and ranking it and let it "stew in it's own juices" for awhile. Later on, maybe years later, I might run across it while I'm reviewing how my songwriting efforts are going... and every now and then... a sow's ear can be re-written into a silk purse. (Naturally, that's the exception... rather than the rule.)

Regardless, I never would advise anywone to "discard" a lyric or song that was written to completion or recorded. It won't take up that much space on your hard drive or in your collection of songwriting notebooks. You might actually have a diamond in the rough.

Dave

http://www.ShowCaseYourMusic.com/DaveRice

http://www.daverice.bandcamp.com

#706152 - 03/29/09 11:55 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: ]  
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Gary E. Andrews Offline
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Gary E. Andrews  Offline
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Portsmouth, Ohio, USA
For me, it's not online tools that I need, it's the heart and soul of another artist. Quote from Sam.

There's a song in that.

What I need
Is the heart and soul
Of another.


There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#706165 - 03/30/09 01:44 AM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Gary E. Andrews]  
Joined: Nov 2003
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Joe Wrabek Offline
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Joe Wrabek  Offline
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Garibaldi, OR USA
You mean like:

Can I borrow your soul for just a little bit
I just need to finish this song

Joe

#706213 - 03/30/09 09:51 AM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Joe Wrabek]  
Joined: May 2002
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argo Offline
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argo  Offline
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boston,massachusetts
One time it took me 14 years to finish a song.

#706220 - 03/30/09 10:35 AM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: argo]  
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Michele Howlett Offline
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Michele Howlett  Offline
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Hunter Valley NSW Australia
I have lots of them, golly gosh, crazy but I will finish them. smile Lots of good idea's so I hang onto them hey. grin

Michele

Last edited by Michele Bolton; 03/30/09 10:36 AM.
#706269 - 03/30/09 01:26 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Michele Howlett]  
Joined: May 2008
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Tom Shea Offline
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Tom Shea  Offline
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Nebraska
Al, I can see the value in what you do with your unfinished songs - and I like you system of organization.

Tom


Thomas Shea

Thomas Shea - Songwriting
http://www.soundclick.com/thomasshea

Justice - Songs
http://www.soundclick.com/justice-nebraska

#706387 - 03/30/09 07:18 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Tom Shea]  
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Two Singers Offline
Two Singers  Offline

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Tom,

Did you say "organizatio"? My wife would beg to differ with you that anything I do is organized!!!

Actually, it'sa very simplistic system that has been extremely effective for me.

Alan

#706388 - 03/30/09 07:23 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: argo]  
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Two Singers Offline
Two Singers  Offline

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Originally Posted by argo
One time it took me 14 years to finish a song.


Hi Argo!

Long time no see. Nice to hear from you. I have one I have been working on since 1978. I have posted several variations here at JPF at one time or another and have received many suggestions that have improved it immensely. But, it's still not "just right". Alnost everyone has agreed that it is a solid song, but needs that little something more. That little something more has been very elusive! I have receives at least a dozen different suggestions for the last verse, but none of them are exactly what I am shooting for. Some deviate too far from the original intent; some suggested wording I thought was awkward, etc., etc., etc.

Am i frustrated? No, not really. I just keep plugging away at it.

One of these days!!!!!

Alan

#710780 - 04/15/09 02:20 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Two Singers]  
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Jean Bullock Offline
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Anaheim, CA, USA
Al, what is the song you are referring to?


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#710942 - 04/15/09 10:52 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Jean Bullock]  
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mattbanx Offline
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This topic makes me think of doing a song that turns out exactly how it was in the mind.What is finished seems to have more to do if it is something more personal or professional.
It must be great for those that can do both.

I started out playing synth pop and wanted to try stuff performing and growing up with musicians like that (with guitar and all played), even though I don't want to play places or make a life out of it.
Just from knowing musicians that do that.

But I have heard acts in the state where I live like the Suburbs, as well as acts out of New York like the Talking Heads and Television.
Inspired by acts like Roxy Music that went out of their way not to be mainstream.
They saved that for the album they broke up with.
I don't want to get in to the image thing with it, but I was always drawn to how they brought more in to the pop scene.
Not all schtick or what a program gives.

But I find that what I personally thought I did better often is what people like the least.

Many I noticed establish what they are better or worse at and go with what they are better with.

I can not make such a compromise.
I love all the music in all its forms too much even though listeners overall may not like my idea of what I feel is good music.
I go to forums to try and keep the listener in mind yet not compromise myself.

But I notice that the first thing a beginner is tought is to do what the click does.
Those that do not have the capacity for technical talent seem to be forced to regurgitate and determine from going by ear what they hear.
Throwing chords and hooks out basically.

I don't want to go with the one or two things I may be better at or cop a style.

In a professional sense, I could not expect to be looked at in a serious way professionally doing that.

But in a practical sense, I figure since I do not have huge money making goals being a musician that I may as well try and do something more interesting.
The bit I can do in more of a professional sense, people have heard a million times before.

But how many have done something that they personally feel was their best that people liked the least?

Last edited by mattbanx; 04/15/09 11:32 PM.
#711469 - 04/17/09 12:24 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: mattbanx]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 113
Rand Bishop Offline
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Rand Bishop  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 113
Nashville, TN
Over the years, the best way I've found to shake a song loose from the quicksand is to do something mindless, an activity where muscle memory takes over -- driving, walking, ironing, gardening (but in silence, without the radio, TV or iPod).

Motor activity can free the subconscious mind -- which is where all great writing is born. With the intent of meditating on your work in progress, put your conscious mind to the task of something mundane while letting your subconscious ramble, taking mental notes on the ideas that might be valid. Almost every time I walk the dog, or take a drive with a song in midstream, I make some good progress.

Here's to inspired writing by all...

Rand Bishop
songwriter/producer/author - Makin' Stuff Up, secrets of song-craft and survival in the music-biz
www.makinstuffup.net


Rand Bishop
Songwriter/producer/author
#712279 - 04/20/09 02:36 AM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Jean Bullock]  
Joined: Feb 2001
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Two Singers Offline
Two Singers  Offline

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Jean,

Sorry to be so late replying to your questions. My life is pretty busy and sometimes I'm lousy at getting back to stuff. Sorry!

The song is "Sweetheart Lover And Friend". I posted it six or seven years ago, with several rewrites over the nest year or two. I then put it back to sleep because I was frustrated. A lot of good wroters here offered some great ideas. But, a final product never came together. First verse and chorus are working real good. The last verse stinks up anything within a hundred feet of it. And that last chorus has been rewritten at least 25 times. if you're interested in taking a look, let me know. But, FYI, it is one of those that is one the cusp of traditional Country and Contemporary Country. It may not be as relevant to the Country music scene as it once might have been. let me know if you want to take a look anyway! Thanks for asking.

Alan

#712289 - 04/20/09 03:03 AM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Two Singers]  
Joined: Feb 2001
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Two Singers Offline
Two Singers  Offline

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Jean,

here's an link to the original posting of the song, with all the comments:

http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/8394/page/272#Post8394

It's the last 4 lines of verse 2 that won't come together. If you're interested, I'll go post it over on the Lyrics 3 Forum and get it away from this thread. Let me know!

Alan

#712419 - 04/20/09 12:39 PM Re: Writing a song that you can't finish? [Re: Two Singers]  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 10,330
Jean Bullock Offline
Jean Bullock  Offline

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Anaheim, CA, USA
Hi, Al. Got your PM.


Please visit my facebook EZ3D PopUps for free papercraft templates. Great for beginners of all ages.

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http://ez3dpopups.blogspot.com/
http://harrietschock.com
http://jpfolks.com
http://phillipmartin.com



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"A lot of people will tell you that preparation is what will make you successful. But I think that people misunderstand exactly what that means sometimes. The type of preparation you need most is the kind that allows you to instantly seize an opportunity, change your course based on a momentary circumstance, and grab hold of the totally unexpected when it happens, and allow it to take you for the ride of your life! That is the kind of preparation that can lead to the most enjoyable type of success." -Brian Austin Whitney
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