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#695465 - 02/24/09 01:26 AM F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance  
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 326
lucian Offline
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lucian  Offline
Serious Contributor

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 326
Camden Town, London
This is in reponse to a post made by Marc Barnette on the "What is music worth?" thread, in which he made some very ingnorant comments about my good self.

His comments are in italics, my responses to them are in bold.

"Jim,

If you read the post from Lucian, that is just what he intends to do. He doesn't play out, doesn't co-write, doesn't go anywhere outside of his neighborhood. He is wanting to do a CD and put it out on the Internet."


Marc, I do not co-write because I do not need to co-write. I believe I am able to write my own music, lyrics and perform them myself. And I have learnt from the experience of forming a band in my younger years that I do not work well with people, and am very much a lone wolf when it comes to artistic ventures.

"When I moved to Nashville 20 years ago, it was called a "ten year town." That means it took a minimum of ten years to develop the skills, get attention of hit writers, publishers, record company exectutives and start making tangible inroads. I got a major cut essentially the first night in town. It took an average of 2 years to play a regular set at the Bluebird cafe' which is Nashville's top songwriting night club. There is a standing list of 25,000 people who have auditioned and are waiting to play. I played in three weeks. I had serious attention from major record labels and publishing company entities within six months."

Well, woopy doo for you, Marc, but you know what? I aint never heard of you, and the song on your website was about as memorable as a lump of cheese, and as about as original.


"People like Lucian come to Nashville all the time. Those that have very little real world experience outside the confines of their own computers or in their own social and local networks. And their music sounds like it. It sounds as if they went to a grab bag of subject matter, rhymes and cliched' approaches. Because they write songs that all sound exactly alike, with very little differentiation between them and everyone else out there. The only way that happens is to create a product that separates you from everybody else and that only comes through knowing what is out there."

"People like Lucian!"
Let me assure you Marc, no one like Lucian has ever been to Nashville! I have only been there in one of my songs "Blow up Uncle Sam" "Gonna head to Nashville with my guitar, I'll be a Limey Cowboy, chicken pickin' star. And if it all goes wrong I'll pick cotton with the Mexicans. Non hablo espanol, just big cajones man."


"Those (people like Lucian) that have very little real world experience outside the confines of their own computers or in their own social and local networks."

Well, now you really have got my goat up Marc. Let me tell you friend, I have more life experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body. I live a quiet life now partly because of health reasons, but also because of my absolute devotion to my art - I view it as art - and to be honest, as an artist, I view your obsession with music as a means to great monetary wealth rather repugnant. If you were a more educated man, you would know history is filled with many examples of artists who have lived solitary, humble lives - sometimes by choice, sometimes not - to enable them to devote themselves totally to their art. Anyway, before my health imposed period of confinement, I lead a life of great adventure, a life of euphoria and despair in equal measure. I have climbed the mountains of life, and I've come a tumbling back down again with a big crash. But now I'm on my way back up. And let me tell you something else. You may regard Nashville as the God Damn centre of the music universe... but I don't! And not everyone else does either. Camden Town is the centre of the music world! And if you were a more knowledgeable person, you'd know that Camden Town - where I live - is THE place people come to who are trying to make in the music business here


"And their (people like Lucian) music sounds like it. It sounds as if they went to a grab bag of subject matter, rhymes and cliched' approaches. Because they write songs that all sound exactly alike, with very little differentiation between them and everyone else out there. The only way that happens is to create a product that separates you from everybody else and that only comes through knowing what is out there.

Well Marc, I have to say the song on your website was so cliched and unforgettable that I can't even remember it, and if you compare it with a couple my songs, I think you will find that mine are about a million times more original and distinctive than yours:

In vain
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7304391

Shepherd with no Sheep
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7334219

And please bear in mind these are demo recordings with some glitches to clean up, and that I have been writing songs since June of last year - when I picked up my guitar for the first time in my many years, decided to learn how to play it properly, taught myself to sing, taught myself bass, learned the art of songwriting, taught myself to create original drum patterns, taught myself cubase etc etc... and I'm continuing to learn anything and everything I need to in order to get to where I want to go.

Anyway Marc, I just wanted to clarify some things up

Regards Lucian (Pronounced Lou-shan)

Last edited by lucian; 02/26/09 11:28 PM.

#695545 - 02/24/09 10:31 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: lucian]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,567
Kevin Emmrich Offline
Kevin Emmrich  Offline


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Joined: Feb 2007
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Crozet, VA
Whoo-Doggy! I am not here to defend Marc, but I have read a bunch of Marc's stuff here and at SongRamp. While he does write about other things, he is mostly "Nashville-centric". And I have no doubt that when he talks about "people like Lucian", he means the 10's of thousands of "living-room" country writers who think their songs are better than anything on the radio and ask "Why can't I get a cut?".

If Nashville ways and contemporary country music is not what your interested in, then Marc's specific comments don't have any relevance to you. OK, they have some relevance, because you can apply his comments to any music situation. He probably had not listened to any of your music, but I am sure he has listened to thousands of living room songs that are just like he described.

While I wouldn't take his comments personally, if they fire you up and make you work harder to succeed, then "Hey, there's a positive!".

I am rooting for you in your endeavors and I hope you find a satisfying outlet for the interesting and provocative songs that you are developing. Heck, I'm one of those living room (or man-cave) writers that Marc talks about (LOL!).

Kevin


"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The 'hard' is what makes it great."
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
#695572 - 02/24/09 12:06 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Kevin Emmrich]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


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Nashville Tennessee
Lucian,

Your songs are excellent. "In Vain" is very visual, with contrasting lyric and music. It has a pop rock feel and a serious singer/songwriter sensibility to it. The only thing I would change is to call it "North Side, South side" It reminds me in lyrical tone of the Doobie Brothers' "Taking It To the Streets" ( You don't know me but I'm your brother, I was born here in this living Hell, You don't know my kind in your world, Very soon the time will tell). My favorite line from "In Vain" is, "thanks for your taxes, you should really keep a receipt" Yeah, it's not the taxes society needs, it's the realization of brotherhood.

"Shepherd with no Sheep" Your music does a descending phrase that ends with a jarring dissonance, not because of the intensity of the dissonance, but because of the surprise. Like "In Vain" you write a lyric that does not preach from a lofty position, but sees the possibility and probability of a middle ground on which neither you nor your audience sit. My favorite line is, "Can you free a slave who's got nowhere to run?"

In both songs you have seemless prosody. Your music and lyrics match. One contrasts, the other sets the mood, both surprise rhythmically but never sound like the words are "fitted" to the melody nor vice versa. (I've got to write a song about songwriting called Vice Versa smile ) You have an honest, compelling voice and songs that challenge the listener to think while tapping their foot.

My suggestions would be twofold. One, you compose very fitting music, but it feels a bit programmed and sampled. You might get Mike Caro to play drums for it, you go ahead and play everything else. Mike is also an excellent mixer and mastering engineer. He would probably cut you a deal for doing both (sorry Mike smile ).

Two, I'd move out in concentric circles. Start in Camden. Once you have the cd ready, book a showcase gig at your favorite venue. Invite all of the music journalists in the area. If you send a letter to them, saying that presenting this letter will get them a free pint and some food, they'll come (journalists are a hungry, thirsty lot). The pub or venue might give you a deal on this, since it will publicize their business. Don't forget to invite the local radio people. They are usually hungry and thirsty also. Of course, free cd's to those invited.

What you need is a pass from the filters. "Filters" are folks in the music business who say, "Yes, this is good." Folks who trust the filters are more likely to try and/or buy their recommendations. In my own, small way, I am a filter (used to write a column in "Country Music Plus," now defunct, but a few years ago it was Ireland's largest Country music magazine. I wrote about the more underground Nashville artists and musicians). You can definitely use any of my assesment here for quotes. Then use the bump you get from any response to your showcase to start rolling. Get as many reviews as you can. Look to any of your interests other than music and join those online communities. You might not want to dive in yelling "songs for sale," but put a link to your CDBaby page on your signature, then join in the discussions. That's where your sales will come, rather than music networking sites. It's hard to sell cds to people who are trying to sell cds. Also, don't neglect the internet radio. Pick a song to send to all, be careful of the agreements, read all the material before sending, but send to all that are legit. Also, I'd send everything out to licensing libraries. There are a lot of legit ones that are free.

Nashville doesn't think of itself as the center of the world, it's more like a train station, a networking hub through which much of the nations music flows. We draw folks like John Prine, John Hiatt, Steve Earle, Michael McDonald, and Little Richard. The often mentioned Leonard Cohen lived here and legend has it wrote many of his greatest songs like Suzanne and Sisters of Mercy at a local watering hole, Brown's Diner, a few doors down from a school run by the Sister's of Mercy (a different type than which Mr. Cohen sung). No, we're not all country music, though that's a big component. I've been to the other American music hubs, Chicago, where I lived, New York, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Las Vegas, Austin, Muscle Shoals, and San Francisco. Nashville is my favorite, it's home, but it's not the center, it's just a big hub among a network of hubs, with a specialty like all the others.

So good luck, it will take a lot of work, it always does. Keep writing and singing.

Mike


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#695576 - 02/24/09 12:16 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski Offline
Top 50 Poster
Michael Zaneski  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
California
I love Prine and Cohen and Earle, three heroes of mine! I lived there almost four years and had no idea that Leonard Cohen lived in Nashville.

That is going to change how I listen to "Songs of Leonard Cohen" ...oh man...






Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 02/24/09 12:28 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
#695587 - 02/24/09 12:38 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Michael Zaneski]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Michael, Steve Earle used play a single act Tuesdays at the Villager in Green Hills Village while I was playing a single act on Wednesdays. The Villager was a neighborly little beer bar with a stage that had barely enough room for two people, it was a lot of fun. Steve stuck with the singer/songwriter thing while I moved toward my lifelong goal of playing studio sessions.

Nashville is a lot more than a commercial music hub. It's a hub for Americana, traditional folk music, classical music, singer/songwriter, jazz, hip hop, rock, you name it.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#695593 - 02/24/09 12:43 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,509
niteshift Offline
Top 50 Poster
niteshift  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,509
Sydney, Australia
Hey Mike,

Good assesment. Lucian, your stuff is easily produced to finished product. Origional, catchy, and it fits the London vibe ( one of them anyways )

PS - Leonard Cohens' latest album was recorded in his garage, on pro-tools and a couple of microphones and plugins. The tracks were then swapped over the internet with his co-writers. He had to re-record a lot of takes due to passing trucks.

It's all in the post-production.....

cheers, niteshift

#695600 - 02/24/09 12:59 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: niteshift]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Thanks nite,

Lucian,

By the way, I know how the post sounded, but Marc's not a bad guy. He's very driven, has the songwriter's best interest at heart and has been a fine resource. Like all of us, he comes from a certain history and perspective. And, like many businessmen who teach, he speaks of generalities while using particular examples. Sometimes, however, in a teacher's zeal, they will use a particular as an example before considering the impact upon the particular. That's what it looks like to me, in this case. I'm sure he meant no harm.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#695612 - 02/24/09 01:25 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,106
John Lawrence Schick Offline
Top 20 Poster
John Lawrence Schick  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9,106
PA
Also keep in mind that Marc is speaking about commercial success ala a reality check.

There is a lot of great songs/music that doesn't have that broad spectrum of popularity, but are still great songs.

Financial/ popularity success in songwriting is only an indication that the mainstream audience connects with it more. Not necessarily an indication that those songs are superior musically or lyrically.

To a large degree, music is subjective. It's in the ears of the beholder.

Best, John

#695617 - 02/24/09 01:33 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,300
Ray E. Strode Online content
Top 30 Poster
Ray E. Strode  Online Content
Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,300
Brunswick, Ga. USA
One should be careful when using someone for an example.
I have heard it in Churchs, Club speakers, etc.

I have heard Ministers Bad Mouth other religions before the parishneers.

In this case I will chalk it up to youthful exhuberance.


Ray E. Strode
#695624 - 02/24/09 01:43 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,907
Colin Ward Offline
Colin Ward  Offline

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Joined: May 2006
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Saint Petersburg. FL
Lucian,

Nice work - those songs are indeed memorable and well done!


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


#695643 - 02/24/09 03:52 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Colin Ward]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,408
Letha Allen Offline
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Letha Allen  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,408
Michigan
Lucien,

I know how easy it is to get disalusioned or hurt by one small assessment or response to our creations or abilities. You are an exceptionally talented individual and have alot of things that an artist needs to make it in the music field. You have the talent, the material, and your look is commercial lol. I know it might seem strange to say that, but I feel it is just one more element that can be important in a persons career.

I believe like Kevin, that Marc was speaking in general, though I think that more tact should have been involved. I don't think anyone should ever be singled out and their name publically used as an example. I am sure once he rethinks, he will also be sorry to have used your name, for whatever reason.

Never give up, keep working towards your dream till you take your last breath.

Letha

#695645 - 02/24/09 04:05 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Colin Ward]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,111
Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,111
Nashville, Tn.
Luciean,

First of all, I apoligize if I seemed insensitive to your situation. That was wrong of me, and I above all try to and am usually sensitive to people I am in contact for.I wasn't commenting on you, your songs or your process, and frankly I could pretty much care less if you thought I was arrogant, cliched' or anything. to be honest, they only thing I am talking about is what your original thread was about, which was doing a CD and promoting in on the internet, which I said, people are using as a tool, but it is very difficult in this day and age, to get music heard not because of the quality of the songs but due to the overwhelming amount of product on the Internet and the difficulty we are all facing in getting paid for what we do.

You can belittle me with all the tone and venom you want to, persoanlly attack, claim how trite I am, how cliched'I am declare you my superior, and make whatever attacks you want to.
I have never attacked you personally, I don't do that. I attack the process, which is what many people in Nashville deal with from people who want access to publishers, song pluggers, artists, producers in Nashville. If you have no interest in Nashville, co-writing, or anything this DOES NOT APPLY to YOU.

The reason I am here (and I don't make a dime from it regardless of your insulting insinuation) is because I have been asked to be here. I have done thousands of miles and put my own money, lost money, to get to writers where they are and have had them come to me. I try to help when I can and 9 out of 10 times I do. I didn't set out to do this at all, and regardless of what you think of me I haven't been to your living room and so you wouldn't have heard of me. Guess what, my friend, I haven't heard of you either.
And if I didn't have a non-ending stream of people with that same attitude coming to THIS town all the time, I wouldn't even bother. There is no end of people that come here. I don't know how many are coming to Camden Town but I am sure if the are coming there you can give them suggestions (which is what I do) to help their music in their forays into Camden Town, which as you say, I am sure is the center of the music universe.
I always wish you well and wish you no disrespect. I have apologized. And I won't make the same mistake again, I assure you. You don't have to listen to anything I or anybody else says. It what you do works for you, by all means do it. At the end of the day all you need to be concerned with is your own creative well being.

Good luck,

MAB

#695729 - 02/24/09 09:02 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
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I do not think Lucian is saying that he is superior to you he is just saying that he takes exception to you implying that you are superior to him. He has every right to reply after the way you criticised him whether meant or not....Whilst your advice might help some people it is certainly not a one size fits all piece of priceless info. Despite what you may think there are other places than Nashville to write, record and perform. Not everybody thinks that Nashville is the center of the universe and not everybody agrees with your take on the best ways to write record and promote yourself.
Whilst you may be a big shot in Nashville and have achieved all sorts of acclaim...outside it counts as zip especially to people from different genres and backgrounds who have never heard of you or are aquainted with the Nashville scene and could not care less about either. Now I have no beef with you and am not trying to pick a fight. I am just saying that whilst your advice and help might be exactly what some people crave, others might disagree with all or parts of it. That does not make them wrong just different and by the same token you are not always right or wrong just different. It would do you no harm if once in a while you acknowledged that others have valid points and ideas and are as worthy of contributions to the various topics and life experiences as you are. Some people write their own stuff in their own style without cliches constraints and narrow rule following formulas that seems to be so much a part of the scene you are immersed in.
I see where Lucian is coming from re your songs. I will not comment too much about them as I have only heard one from your youtube... it was OK.... nothing special.... a bit tired...cliched and unoriginal. Some of us are trying to break away from writing these sorts of what I would describe as "painting by numbers" type songs.

#695737 - 02/24/09 09:24 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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MAB is here and has given us some great info to read. We all take from the things we read here, and file it into our memory...sometimes we agree, and sometime we don't...he paints the insider view of Nashville and the way it all works through HIS eyes ! Don't we all? You have not liked country music since I've known you here Jim, right? Lucian, MAB was relating HIS lifes experiences, I don't blame you for your response...but I do NOT believe he was attacking you, I truly believe he is an honest man. Let's not get all in a huff here, it's ALL about the LEARNING, isn't it? That's why we all come here, we learn and we have a sense of camaraderie. Personally, I enjoy you both...take the apology and let it go buddy. I agree with Jim, the Nashville formula is...well..a little too formula for me...but that doesn't make MABs post any less interesting ! Aren't we "in this all together?"


Herbie
JPF Chicago Chapter Coordinator
http://www.herbietunes.com

#695751 - 02/24/09 10:01 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Herbie Gaines]  
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lucian Offline
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lucian  Offline
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Camden Town, London
Hey Marc, I accept your apology and I'm not someone who bears grudges - except for the person who stole my Bonsai Tree from outside my home a few month ago, if ever get my hands on them... Anyway, you're a talented man, a driven man and I respect your achievements. You posted some excellent and very insightful comments on the "getting your song heard" thread, in which you painted an honest picture of the immense difficulty in getting anywhere as a songwriter these days with less and less opportunities and more and more people being driven into the world of country music as it offers the best of these dwindling opportunities. Reading that validated my own decision to be an artist in the my own right, as I personally think that is the best way forward for anybody who has the ability to perform their own songs to go, as the walls that previously prevented that have come crashing down in recent years. You deleted those posts, as I guess they said some harsh truths which you thought might upset some people and make them give up on the idea of getting anywhere. I thought it was a shame you did that and it would be nice if you put them back up if you have copies of them for others to read.

Anyway, I felt the comments you made to me (or people like me!) in the "what's music worth?" thread were disrespectful and arrogant, and to accuse me of being, what I would call, a "4 chords, 4 times with 4 rhymes and a chorus that chimes" type songwriter WITHOUT ever having heard any of my songs was the ignorant, as were your other comments I pointed out.

To say my song(s) are rubbish after having listened to them is fine and I don't have a problem with that, and I'm surprised you're bothered I didn't rate the song on your website - which I went to the trouble of listening to. It's not my cup of tea, that's not to say it's not everyone's cup of tea. I'm an honest person. If I like your song, I will tell you. If I don't like your song, and I will analyze why I don't like it, and if I think you are someone who can handle their song not being liked by someone, then I will tell you.

Perhaps I went a little over the top in my response but, as Kevin can testify, I am prone to my little artistic tantrums from time to time :-)

So, anyway, no hard feelings, and consider the hatchet well and truly buried.

Cheers Lucian


#695774 - 02/24/09 10:42 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: lucian]  
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Hi Herbie, Lucian and Marc. I would also like to add that I am not a person to bear grudges or deliberately disrespect others. I say what I feel and sometimes step on toes. I do this without malice. I have a love of music and fellow musicians and will always try to help anyone any way I can even those I have just had a disagreement with. I accept that people have different tastes and different ways of doing things and everyone is entitled to express these. I give honest opinions and answers and accept that people might disagree. I am sure that most people will testify that although outspoken I mean no harm and only mean well. I also consider the hatchet buried.

#695793 - 02/24/09 11:15 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: lucian]  
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Terry Moore Offline
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I do not think for a milli-second that Marc was being disrespecrtful to anyone in particular,i honestly think his response was what i'd call a "generalisation",in his reply to the question can you make music from your living room/or thru the internet..and he sort of linked it to what/where he knows best(and scanning thru his posts he definately aint talking thru a hole in his head)Nashville....so taking it from that perspective there is prob a lot of truth in what he says,without a doubt,he is talking from his experiences and the experiences of others,whom he has obviously met, who walk thru them well worn doors, and expect miracles.This is my first visit to JPF this year,before i wrote this response i caught up with a lot of posts,etc,..i must admit i think reading Marcs posts he paints a fair honest picture of the present scene in Nashville...it aint different from any other "axis" of the music scene,it has to adjust to the present,and the downturn/climate of the music business in general,which in turn makes it very difficult for any emerging songwriter..the ONLY downside to Marcs slant ..IS that he is based in Nashville,and earns his living there...whereas we punters across the pond,(i'm in Scotland)perhaps see it from a different angle...tho in saying that his general premise of the songwriting business is bang on ,whether you write like/dislike country..that is neither here nor there..he gives out sound advice in general...my own view of the internet..it is a tool..it has to be used as part of your own networking outlets..can you make a few $$'s out of it...of course you can...if you have something the public want to buy..but how do they know you have it?...thats when it becomes part of your network and to be utilised...you NEED to perform...
and make your songs affordable,and put them on a good quality cd..then sell them at your gigs...then it all goes round in a circle...people buy them...send them to friends/relations..they hit your website...you distribute them to radio stations..you get a bit of airplay..the dj mentions your website..more hits and sales...how do i know all this...thats what i done...you can also build up a fan base thru You-Tube,make an inexpensive video of a quality song and stick it up,that is another avenue,combine them all on your website,,so in effect working from home is only the start of the full cycle..but people have got to hear about you to start the wheels in motion...so in effect if you don't make the effort...you can bet your last dollar, no one aint gonna do it for you...we all know the old saying "Actions Speak Louder Than Words"...that saying was hand made for the music business...The words& music are the easy parts...the networking is the real hard part..Good Luck to all my friends on JPF..Terry.

#695823 - 02/25/09 12:39 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Terry Moore]  
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Nice to hear from you again Terry. I hope all is well. Great advice as usual.

PS My son got married in June last year and is now living in..... Hamilton of all places. It would be nice to meet up with you next time I am through and thank you for the favour. I have not forgotten your generousity.

#695830 - 02/25/09 12:57 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
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Terry Moore Offline
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How's it goin Big Man....By the way thats a nice Collab you have done with Kaley...my speakers are a bit wonky at the minute..but what i heard of it, it sounds a nice cut...will have another listen later once i get some new speaker cables...Hamilton ..now your talkin'...welcome to civilisation!...my Hometown!..you can catch me in Millar's Bar...any Monday afternoon(Quarry Street)...
3-6.30...Sing-Song..live music.. DROP IN.give us a tune or three..OR "The Ship Bank" just down from Glasgow Cross..Sun Aft..1.30-4.30...other gigs are at night...so your prob out giggin yourself...look forward to seeing you...Terry..

#695836 - 02/25/09 01:09 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Terry Moore]  
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lucian Offline
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Camden Town, London
Kevin... Nice comments, you've really improved in the short time I've been here, keep it up... one day us "living roomers" might take over the music world!

Mike, thanks for the unexpected critiques, I already had a lot of feedback for "In Vain" from the MP3 boards and a great critique from the Main Man Mike Caro for "Shepherd with no Sheep", so it's great to get additional feedback from your good self, the other Main Man around here when it comes to music.

Thanks for the ideas as well regarding how to further my development. I'll file them in my mind till I've finished my album, as I am concentrate on that totally at the moment.

Mike Z, thanks for sticking up for me on the other thread. That was really cool. I remember stuff like that.

Niteshift - well if it's good enough for Leonard Cohen then it'll do for me - and I don't even get passing trucks as a problem... just the odd passing drunken person on their way home after a night out in Camden. Thanks for the comments on the songs!

John - I don't really aim to be a millionaire from making music and would be happy to earn enough to live on and no-more... If you can earn a living doing something you love, you're a lucky man indeed. Though, of course, I wouldn't say no to the big house in Primrose Hill and all that stuff if it came my way.

Ray - wise words indeed.

Colin - I remember you didn't totally get my "I just shot the Sun!" song so glad you feel these worked a lot better. Thanks.

Letha - oh, you're making me blush now! I'm sure it was just an ill advised turn of phrase Marc used so it's all forgotten now. You make sure you never give up either! A voice like yours needs to be heard far and wide.

Big Jim - that's how us Brits acquired the biggest empire the world's ever known, we back each other up, then get the locals to fight amongst each other while we plunder all their recourses! But these Americans... they're learning our tricks now! Ok, I'll stop there, just a little bit of cross Atlantic banter!

Herbie - yup, just like you say, we are all in this together, just taking different routes and it's important to give one another good directions if we've been where their going to or they know how to get where we're trying to get to. I think that makes sense.

Terry - lots of good sense advice there on how to go about utilizing the internet.

Thanks all Lucian


#695866 - 02/25/09 03:04 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: lucian]  
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Johnny Daubert Offline
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Johnny Daubert  Offline
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New Jersey, USA
OK, now that there's peace, Yeah! How did you get the names to be in bold?


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





#695877 - 02/25/09 05:18 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Johnny Daubert]  
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Two Singers Offline
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Northern Alabama
John,

Re: The Bold letters...

Just go up to the specific post to which you want to reply and click on the "REPLY" tab at the bottom. If you just go to the bottom of the forum and make a reply, you cannot do it. You MUST go to the specific comment and click on that "REPLY" tab.

Type your message. The go back and highlight, with the your mouse, the words/letters, etc., you want to make bold. Once you do that, look at the various boxes across the top of the meassage reply box. The 5th from the left is a bold "B". Simply click on that little box with the "B" and any lettering/text you have highlighted with appear as bold print once you submit your reply. The italicosized "I", next to the "B" is to make the lettering/text appear as italics, using the same process. If uyou hover your mouse over each of those little boxes, you will get a small text box telling you what each button does.

Whatever text you want to alter, simply highlight it with your mouse and clcik on whichever little box will give you the desired affect. You'll see the code in your reply when you click on the box for the affect. However, when you submit your reply, the desired affect will appear in lieu of the HTML formatting code.

Hope that it explains easily enough!

Alan

#695887 - 02/25/09 06:52 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: lucian]  
Joined: Dec 2008
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John Marnie Offline
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Barrington, NJ (US)
Quote
Big Jim - that's how us Brits acquired the biggest empire the world's ever known, we back each other up, then get the locals to fight amongst each other while we plunder all their recourses! But these Americans... they're learning our tricks now! Ok, I'll stop there, just a little bit of cross Atlantic banter!


Well now Lucian, your songs are just peachy and you seem like such a cheeky fellow. I certainly do not mean any disrespect for a pompous English brother, but you wouldn't have any songs if the AMERICAN EMPIRE didn't save your bacon from the FUHRER! Quite right! Quite right! Oh, just a little cross Atlantic banter. smile Minute Men forever!









Well now Lucian, your songs are just peachy and I can tell you are a cheeky fellow.


John Marnie: Drummer and singer in
"Too Little Time" Band:
http://www.TooLittleTime.net
#697500 - 03/01/09 02:57 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: John Marnie]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Hey guys,

Sorry about missing this. I have been working with some other people in town in my regular job and missed the ignorance thing. That is pretty good and at time no matter how much we think we are being clear we do display ignorance (which is just having stuff around you and ignoring what it says) Lucian, first of all there is no hard feelings at all toward you or any one here. I am enjoying all the threads and try to keep up as best I can.
I forget sometimes that some of these have previous pages and don't always get to go back on them. So sometimes it has the effect of walking in on a conversation going on and you don't always get the perspective of the conversation. In the things I do I am often in appointments with people and checking in and out and I try to respond when people are talking about issues I have some familiarity with.

In a lot of them, say this particular issue of Internet promotions, I work with people coming to Nashville because they didn't have as much success on the Internet as they thought, couldn't find a musical community in their home areas, or are just looking for a more accessible musical community and Nashville sometimes (Not always) provides that. When people come to Nashville, (and most of my comments are directed toward those people) there are some things you can do to make your journey a little faster and friendlier. So that is what I am talking about.

In most instances I try to direct people to these kinds of threads to get information from different perspectives. Kind of think of me as a tour guide, pointing out various aspects, "If you look to your left, you find the ASCAP building, to the right is BMI, you need to visit both, then make up your mind as who to join" I try to provide options at every turn. By the way, I deleted things I had said because I felt they were in the wrong place and wanted to re-group them in a thread I started myself instead of intruding on those started by others. More of a professional courtesy than feeling I was hurting feelings or saying the wrong things.

Lucian, for the record, I have nothing but respect for anyone that tries to create and share what's inside of him or her with as many people as will listen. I am just trying to point out some things you may or may not have thought about, and as you are going forward to be aware of.

Like most things musical there are some things under the surface people have to take into consideration and provide a more complete picture. In your case it might have been a physical problem of getting outside your area, and if I seemed insensitive to that, please forgive me, since that is my last intention. We all do what we do. And the co-writing issue is what I deal with in most cases of people that come here because co-writing is so essential in a town like Nashville. Again, if you have no interest in Nashville, you really don't have any reason to have to co-write, although I like it just for the process of sharing information with other writers.

On the songs I write, particularly the one on my web site, "Less is More" that was actually an example of teaching by doing. The other writer was formerly a rock drummer trying to learn to write country before he moves to Nashville later this year. The title and the song were simply an effort to slow the pattern of his lyrics down a little for clarity sakes. Then the lyrics were to demonstrate a more visual style.
The whole reason we did it the way we did was because of an opportunity to do a session with legendary Bass player Bob Babbitt, who was one of Motown's Funk Brothers, band who played on around 300 hit records through the 60's and 70's from artists like Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, The Supremes, etc. He lives in Nashville and i just ran into him and considered it a historic opportunity. In addition, we had a film crew wanting to film our recording process in order to submit to some film festivals so they can be around independent filmakers in a desire to increase their contacts. And the video is actually more about our recording process, from mapping out the song, adding the players, groove, singers, etc. than the actual song writing.

So while I agree it is not probably the strongest song I have ever written, it is really about the other sides of the issues I deal with, how to teach writing, providing vehicles for other people, and pulling it together in one day without spending a fortune.Which, at the end of the day, everything I am doing is about being economical with time, effort and money. Finding the "win-win" in several situations.
As a result, the film crew has been accepted into several independent film festivals, met some people that provided funding for a short film they are filming here in April, have gotten some other video work from it, the other writer is writing a little more focused songs and getting offers to co-writer from people who see the video, the studio has gotten some additional work, I have gotten some work, and my Mother, family, and high school friends get to see how much older I look since turning 50 in July. They are sending care packages, depends adult diapers, vitamins, reading glasses, canes, probably will get a stroller sometime.
So if I ever seem to come off unfeeling, or blase about something or know it all, please look at the picture on these threads. That smile is how I really feel about writers and trying to find their way on the journey. I am here to help when I can, offer some perspective in a certain direction and to add anything I can. I am always your friend and supporter and will do my best to help you, and stay out of the way if it doesn't apply.

Thanks for the opportunity to clarify.

Lucian, still waiting on that chance to buy your product.

MAB

Last edited by Marc Barnette; 03/01/09 03:17 PM.
#697518 - 03/01/09 03:44 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
Lucien,

Sorry, for going back and forth on this, I am trying to re-read your posts. I have not listened to your music because I do music all day long and get kind of overwhelmed. I usually only listen to music when people direct me to what they would like me to listen to and I actually have a song critique service which is what I get paid to do, so I don't listen to as much music outside of what my living is built around. And God knows, after about 14 hours a day, the last thing you want to do to relax is listen to music.
Having said that I am always willing to listen to anything someone can help me find. Lord knows I am pretty much a mental midget when it comes to technology and am doing well to be sending you these posts.
What I am trying to comment on more than anything is the process, the process of writing, co-writing, promotion, networking. I am trying to "flip the desk" from the point of view of those who we have to deal with in our musical journey's, the club or pub owners, the recording process, the studios, musicians, the publishers, song pluggers,artists, or general public and always trying to find a way to maximize our efforts and to avoid the landmines others have stepped on before. No sense us blowing our feet off if someone else has already blown themselves up.
So I have not made any comments on your work, simply because I have not been able to. That is something I will correct soon. I thank you for taking the time to listen to mine, but to be honest I had forgotten what I have on my web site because I don't go to it very often and there are other people that do that for me. That should tell you how big an idiot I am technilogically.
I have sort of shifted my focus over the past few years as more of a teacher and mentor to others as opposed to being a writer or artist in my own right. I still do that of course, but writing another song for myself, doing a show for me, or bringing my personal music to the forefront of anything is now more of a by product than my main focus.
I am here on these pages, and others to make suggestions from one point of view to people that are interested in that point of view. In some cases the things i speak about have more universal truths than others. We are all in an effort in building music, developing music, and getting it to as many people as we can on a constant effort.
At the end of the day, that is my focus. Anything I talk about speaks to those issues.

MAB

PS: I do want you guys to know how much I appreciate where you are from. Last night I was watchign the movie
"The Committments," which is a movie from 91' about some guys from Dublin, forming a soul band. I even had one of my best friends over, a woman from Manchester here, to translate phrases I couldn't understand. I even was talking to her son, who is in London for some phrase I could send Lucien to let him know I was glad to know him. Her son just said "put mate on the end of everything." I hope some day I can make the trip to Camden town and see the world through your eyes.
My Dad's side of the family left England in the 1820's and my Mother's family left Scotland and Ireland in the 1700's. So my family was pretty much kicked out of every decent country around.
Over the years as an actor I have done dialects and can do a halfway decent Irish and Scottish brogue. For Americans. Of course, the actual Irish and Scotts think I sound more like the hated Dick Van Dyke from Mary Poppins and we all walk around singing "It's a lovely 'oliday with Mary." God Americans are real goofs sometimes.
Sorry to bastardize your culture.

MAB

#697554 - 03/01/09 05:27 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Marc Barnette]  
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"Tampa Stan" Good (D) Offline
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Tampa, Florida since 1973
I'm glad to see you Guys have patched things up.

Lucian, I sorta-apologize for Not Getting Into your "Shoot The Sun" Song, BUT I'm thoroughly-behind your Initial Ire..& reaction-in-print..and your NOT telling me to F-Off after My Critique. You were a perfect Gentleman & Took "The Negative" like an Adult, like a Pro.

Mark, I've watched Nashville grow from a Town where "Evabody's Welcome" to give it a try, to one where ya bring MC or VISA, & we'll introduce ya around. But..the More Things Get Big, the More that They Eat. &..unless ya live on the West Coast, Nashville IS where you Take Your Act to Get-Bigger.

You've TRIED to raise us JPF'ers..via a LOT of FREE Info..(& your Time IS Valuable)..to consider GETTING to a Level that Nashville considers "Viable". This required..& still does..considerable Generosity & Kindness on your part.

I've enjoyed reading BOTH your & Lucien's viewpoints on Music Success..real glad you've got a mutual Understanding..hope to continue to read More. These ARE "Tougher Times" for the Music Industry as well as ANY Industry..&, frankly, we ARE All In It Together...Learning-Well..from Each Other!

Way To Go, Guys!
Big Hugs,
Stan

#697560 - 03/01/09 05:38 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: ]  
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Mike Dunbar Offline
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Nashville Tennessee
Stan, a songwriter can get by for less spending on biz stuff in today's money than they could twenty five years ago. Yes, there are more things you can spend money on now, but if you are smart and a thrifty spender, some of those things can actually save money and time (such as one of Marc's tours or an NSAI membership).

Nashville has always been a money pit for some. So has buying houses, vacationing in Florida, learning to play golf, and owning pets. Folks who do their homework, though, usually do ok.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#697595 - 03/01/09 07:21 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Tampa Stan,

Nashville has indeed gotten some traits that get expensive. What is interesting is hearing the stories of years ago when it was the same thing. My studio partner Jay Verne talks about his first demo session costing him $4000 for four songs in 1983. Mine was about $2500 for my first session, but that was ten songs and one of them got cut by Shelby Lynne which ended up paying about $15,000. So it is not that so much has changed as it has shifted to where a lot of people who actually used to make money from the actual sale of their music have shifted to the selling of information, the equivatlent of the 49'er's gold prospectors who went selling the picks and shovels instead of digging for gold.

But there are quite a few things that don't cost money. Many writer's nights where you meet writers and get a sense of what is going on, (and a LOT of what NOT to do) are often free or just for food and drinks, which you might pay anyway. there are workshops and events like Jason Blume's Tuesday get togethers which I believe are free, elements of ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, NSAI that are free.
And through it all there are ways to find information on pretty much anything you want to know without going broke. I could have probably saved more money if I had joined NSAI earlier in one way, that I would have written for cuts as opposed to trying to always be the artist. But no matter, it does seem to work out if you think strategically and go methodically. When it gets expensive is when you try to blast in, do huge projects or spend a lot of money at one time.
For instance, in my job as a mentor, I try to slow people down, see the options, take it a little at a time, and weigh all your options as you go. We often get caught up in some new song we have, want to play it all over and then get a demo. But what happens often is that after a little while, that song might not be as strong as something you just wrote. We constantly replace things we write with other songs. So being able to take time and do it incrementally can help.
So yes, there are times you spend money. But there are also times you just kind of hang out a bit. Listen to others and make some informed decisions. Which is what is hard to do given the emotionality of music. You know the three greatest songs ever written?

#1 Yesterday
#2 The Long and Winding Road
#3 The one I JUST WROTE YESTERDAY!!!

It is always subjective and always changes. So the best advice is to slow down, breathe and take it one step at a time.

MAB

#697693 - 03/01/09 11:38 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: Sep 2008
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lucian Offline
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lucian  Offline
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Camden Town, London
Hey Marc, I know it was misunderstanding now, and you've probably learnt what I did when I first came here: That you need to get a feel for the person behind the screename - what their aims and ambitions are - before commentating much on their work or anything like that. But I think, in me, you probably somehow managed to pick the worst possible example to give of the guy who strolls into Nashville full of lofty, naive ideas, trying to make it as a songwriter. Nashville is not the place for me, but never say never, who knows? I may end up being that Limey Cowboy after all.

But I did go over top in some of the things I said, "I have more life experience in my little finger than you do in your whole body" is probably something of an overstatement and just down right not true. You've had your experiences that have shaped you, I've had mine, just like everyone else.

Saying you're a purely money driven person is also quite plainly not correct. I can tell you're a guy that just likes helping people, and enjoys it when someone asks you for directions and you're able to help them. As a former teacher, I recognize those traits.

Your comments are Nashville centric, of course, because that is where you're based. But I read all your comments because they include a lot of information just as applicable to the world outside of country music.

I'd be happy to give you a guided tour of Camden Town if you ever come here, its many well known music venues, famous street markets, and maybe a drink in the upstairs of the Hawley Arms with Winehouse and all that mob if I ever manage to get anywhere in music.

Stan, cheers for the comments - nice to hear a couple of your lyrics turned into songs recently. I loved the Bailout Bucks song Joe did.

John - well it wasn't really the American Empire that saved us from "THE FUHRER" because America had not entered the war when the Battle Of Britain took place, but it was one man, one man alone, who saved our bacon... Ben Affleck! As shown in the excellent film Pearl Harbour, that plucky American came over here and played the decisive role in the defeating the Luftwaffe's attempt to wipe out the Royal Air Force and thereby clearing the way for a German Invasion. Ben Affleck I salute you! God Bless Ben Affleck!

Cheers Lucian


#697799 - 03/02/09 08:29 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: lucian]  
Joined: Apr 2003
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Jeff Van Devender Offline
Jeff Van Devender  Offline

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Colorado
"God Bless Ben Affleck!"
Good one!! hahahaha!!!!

#698155 - 03/03/09 03:13 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Jeff Van Devender]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
I love that Ben Affleck thing.

Of course it was a misunderstading. Did I ever tell you that we are all disfunctional children who want grow up. I'm coming to visit the Lord Mayor of Camden Town.

My friend told me to tell you:


Hi Marc, Pass this on to Mr. Camden Town please............Hello Darlin, Pop along to the Vic & get a Pint & some Jellied Eels from Peggie..........

Luv Ya Susie


That is what she says,

MAB

#699911 - 03/09/09 11:23 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: Apr 2005
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Split Level Offline
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Split Level  Offline
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Nashville and U.K.
Hi Lucian

Ive heard of Marc Allen Barnette, but not you, Lucien,

He certainly knows the business, his music may not be yours but
that's the same for all of us.

I would be a bit more respectful, Don't know why you have to make this a public debate.
Having said that, your music is very good, but cut down those long intros and find a better intro for Vain, that song would be turned off before the words started, your voice is not pwerfull but doesent need to be, it's young and if I was you, i'd get a bloody band together and come down to E.M.I when you have done three years on the road.

You aint Nashville but that's a special market, glad you have all made up.

Split

Last edited by Split Level; 03/09/09 11:40 AM.

Have been working at E.M.I. Hayes U.K. in many departments starting as Tea Boy and worked through to A and R, New Artist Management,
Co Writing , with Boy Bands, and some solo acts
I have always played in bands,

SPLIT LEVEL
psuedonymn of course to many thieves and robbers on the web these days
#699915 - 03/09/09 11:57 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Split Level]  
Joined: May 2008
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Jim Offerman Offline
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Jim Offerman  Offline
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Utrecht, The Netherlands
Originally Posted by Split Level
I would be a bit more respectful


You mean like reading the whole thread before commenting on the first post? wink


Jim Offerman ~ inspirational pop music
blog - follow me twitter - buy 'Start Here' on bandcamp!
#700055 - 03/09/09 07:42 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Jim Offerman]  
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 326
lucian Offline
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lucian  Offline
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Camden Town, London
Hey Split, my man, like Dutch Jim said, maybe you should have read thread before posting. Marc and I had a disagreement, and we sorted it out. No problems. I don't know, this reminds of school when I beat up the class bully and then all the hard nuts in the whole year wanted to fight me!

Split, I shall never go to EMI, Hayes. Wretched place, Hayes... and Harlington, too. I worked as an apprentice in that silly little airport near there for a couple of years after leaving school. Wretched place that was as well.

Me and record companies will never go together. My cousin is a head of something or other at major record label. I gave him my first "album" I did last July, which I wrote and recorded in a month... And I'm still waiting to hear back from him! So much for nepotism! OK, it wasn't very good, and I hadn't learnt to sing properly yet, but the raw the talent was there! But the Oasis obsessed fool was too deaf to hear it. Shame, that could have been his big break.

Three years, no, no, no. I've got too much to do apart from my music. I have to write my book and all that stuff as well. My voice is my voice. Not powerful? Depends who you compare it to. Whitney Houston? OK, fair enough. Some little squirt in a boy band? Nah, don't think so. Anyway, I can do a pretty good Nessun Dorma, and that's good enough for me.

I'm not so young these days - you're second person in a few days to hear my songs/music and presume I am young (I.E. In my twenties). I am in my 30's and my audience is both young and old, rich or poor, brown hair or black hair. My message is universal. I haven't figured out what my message is yet, but I'm sure it will be a universal one! But if I can pass for being in my late 20's, that is cool indeed. I'll see if I can pull that off the next nice lady I meet.

Anyway, I like it in your signature that you openly admit to writing boy band songs. Too long have boy band songwriters hidden in the shadows, afraid to come out and be proud of who they are. "Boy band songwriter and proud!" You should get a badge with that on it maybe.

Cheers Lucian


#701074 - 03/13/09 03:07 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: lucian]  
Joined: Jan 2009
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
We still on this? I am gone for a week and you haven't come up with any other topic.

Lucian and I are just recreating the war of 1812 for the entertainment of all of you out there.

How goes the project Lucian?

The cool things about being a musician is you always have ADD and can't remember what you are fighting about. We had a dissagrement on process and perspective. Lucian comes from a different place than I do, but we both agree on the same thing. Write the best songs you can, record them as best as you can, get them out there as best you can. Simple.

I am exposed to a different level of the industry by choice and by choice Lucian is in a different place. But we are all doing the same thing. It brings me to a line of mine in a song I wrote about a year ago and forgot about. It is one of my favorites:

"You Just don't choose music, music chooses you."

That is how I feel. Good to hear from you all.

MAB

#701240 - 03/13/09 11:10 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: Sep 2008
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lucian Offline
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lucian  Offline
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Camden Town, London
Hi Marc, yes, I thought this thread too had run its course! I had to reply to Split, though, I've probably burned all my bridges with EMI now, ah well. I've chosen my path. Never gonna be any good at this networking business.

My project is going well, thanks. Little break this week to visit family and talk to a different cat for a change.

I see you had your, "I'm leaving this website and never coming back!" moment on another thread. I had one of them a while back, you aint no-one around here till you've had one of them!

Cheers Lucian

#701243 - 03/13/09 11:12 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: lucian]  
Joined: Nov 2006
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BIG JIM MERRILEES Offline
BIG JIM MERRILEES  Offline

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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Edinburgh, Scotland. UK
We have all had em but thankfully we return.

#701288 - 03/14/09 02:53 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: BIG JIM MERRILEES]  
Joined: Jan 2009
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Posts: 5,111
Nashville, Tn.
I can't leave you guys to bully everyone. Big Jim would never forgive me. Like I said, all musicians and songwriters have ADD so we can't remember what we are mad about. For years on the anniversery of me moving to Nashville, I would have my (whatever year anniversery) and then my (Add one year) "moving home" party.
You do it to be funny, but there are threads of truth in it. most of the time you just say "to hell with all of this." But the cool thing about all these sites are there is a sense of community. You get to know these people. It is usually the ones you don't know that just kind of pop on and pop off that get under your skin.
But it does make you work harder to be understood. And if that helps me be a better communicator, teacher and ultimately better songwriter, I can stand a little elevated blood pressure from time to time.
I feel like the little tete a tete' with Lucian has brought me a much better friend. I look forward to seeing what he is doing and what all of you are into.

Had a pretty fun little party tonight with some friends of my online forums in Nashville. it is cool to get to know people face to face who you have met on line, then get to talk to them about music, what we all go through and sometimes you see them about to go off in a direction and spend some money they don't need to. That is when it pays off for me. When I can save people a few bucks it makes it all worth it.

Good to hear from you guys. Keep it cool on the Emerald Isle. Next Tuesday I have to brush off my really bad Irish accent and mess with people here that don't know any better.

MAB

#701295 - 03/14/09 04:03 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,561
Mark Kaufman Offline
Mark Kaufman  Offline

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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,561
Minneapolis
It's natural to discover something like a website full of strangers talking, and want to show them what you know. But they're not real people yet, so, like drivers jockeying for position on the road, we can get rude, angered, offended, annoyed, saddened...and we can honk at each other, and make this face: mad But after awhile, we can't help but to stop talking and to actually listen to each other...and that listening part is when we begin learning, growing, developing compassion, falling in love, noticing the surprises we all have to offer, because no one is a stereotype, no one is a one dimensional character, and everyone is unpredictable. Everyone has a delightful side. The one's who stick it out and spend more time here grow stronger and more caring.

IdeaGuy said that the opposite of love is not hate...it's indifference. I think that is true. Anger is passion, and passion is just another side of love. When I get pissed off, I take a break...but I always come back. Too many good people here.

Hey Lucian, I ALWAYS talk to cats. Usually in a really high voice, and they always respond, in their cat way. Cats rock.

#701494 - 03/14/09 09:16 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 249
John Marnie Offline
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John Marnie  Offline
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Barrington, NJ (US)
When I first got on this site I said something off base. Boy, did I get nailed! Hey, posting is not easy and you have to be careful what you write, so you do the least offensive damage.

Posting your opinion is probably going to offend someone in some way. The point is to have constructive conversations and agree to disagree as ladies and gentleman. Calling each other bad names does in no way prove a point. It only proves your immaturity. It sidetracks the thread into something unpleasant and that's not what it was meant to be. I am also guilty of this. Now I have to scroll up and see what this thread was about in the first place. See ya.


John Marnie: Drummer and singer in
"Too Little Time" Band:
http://www.TooLittleTime.net
#701742 - 03/15/09 07:31 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: John Marnie]  
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 326
lucian Offline
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lucian  Offline
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Camden Town, London
Marc, I too am glad we had this little tete a tete, a good tete a tete if often very refreshing.

Mark, cats know many secrets of the world, I'm convinced of it! And the world of cat politics is much more interesting than the human version.

Cheers Lucian


#701766 - 03/15/09 08:39 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: lucian]  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,179
Tom Shea Offline
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Tom Shea  Offline
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,179
Nebraska
... and peace prevailed.

Tom

Last edited by Tom Shea; 03/15/09 08:40 PM.

Thomas Shea

Thomas Shea - Songwriting
http://www.soundclick.com/thomasshea

Justice - Songs
http://www.soundclick.com/justice-nebraska

#701806 - 03/15/09 11:06 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Tom Shea]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,242
PeteG Offline
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PeteG  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,242
Portland, Oregon
... and peace prevailed.

But isn't it odd that a major music center like Nashville has NO black artists as headliners. That they would prefer to play Kelli Pickler and ban the Dixie Chicks? There are no doubt some excellent guitar pickers etc. there, but why do they have to control the content of their songs so rigidly. And there are zero radio stations in New York or Los Angeles that feature the top 40 country format. Country Music is the Fox News of the Music World. And to quote Toby Keith they can "kiss my ass."

#701832 - 03/16/09 02:06 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: lucian]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,561
Mark Kaufman Offline
Mark Kaufman  Offline

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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,561
Minneapolis
Originally Posted by lucian

Mark, cats know many secrets of the world, I'm convinced of it! And the world of cat politics is much more interesting than the human version.

Cheers Lucian

I am but my cat's chauffeur.

[Linked Image]

#701835 - 03/16/09 02:58 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Mark Kaufman]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,111
Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,111
Nashville, Tn.
Pete,

You are playing into a very popular myth that everyone boycotted the Dixie Chicks. That is nonsense. nobody did any such thing. It was not the original "George Bush is an idiot" rant that got the Chicks in trouble. It is when they did press conferences calling Nashville, their fans and "anyone who would have a Reba McEntire CD in their CD changer, idiots" and claim "they would never work with anyone in Nashville again," that got them shunned. And they still sold tickets that year on tour. They insulted their fans and were stupid. Gained different fans, but of course those fans have the loyalty of a gnat, so short term gain doesn't transfer to much. Basically it is now, "Dixie who?" Hey man, you die much faster than you live in this business. But Lord they perpetuate that myth and a lot of people sure buy it. If I hadn't been pretty close to it, I might have bought it as well. I just knew too many people in the middle of that, being embarrised by three very arrogant loud mouth jerks, to really buy into that clap trap.
I don't know what Nashville record company or outlet you are looking at, but the last time I looked Darius Rucker, formerly of Hootie and Blowfish, just had two number one records. The last I looked (and when I was standing next to him at the Tin Roof a few weeks ago) he was black. The last I checked, we have a black president also.
The real reason for a lack of African American artists in country is very simply it is not a kind of music the majority of them are raised with. If they like country music they are ridiculed by their contemporaries who are steeped in hip hop and rap. It is just not something second nature to them, which country has to be with anyone who is really successful.And the buying audience for country music is almost non-existant. So it is not marketed there. But their are artists trying. Most of them simply don't make it any more than the hundreds and thousands of their white contemporaries don't make it.
And it is true that the majority of African Americans are raised on a golf course, yet the top golfer in the world is African American.
So far be it from any big dark conspiricy, you work with what you have to work with and the buying public is not an affirmative action excercise. This is the power of the consumer.
There are no country stations in LA or New York because advertisers support other formats,. and the ones there before have not succeeded in ratings share. Wow, supply and demand. Imagine that. The power of the purse. Kind of makes things real past the dreams of a few.

This is business and the luck of the draw. You can complain all day. Most people do. doesn't accomplish ery much.

MAB

#701860 - 03/16/09 06:53 AM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,242
PeteG Offline
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PeteG  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,242
Portland, Oregon
Marc Alan,

I think it was just a throw away line at a concert in England before the beginning of the Iraq War that Bushs' desire to go to war "made her embarrassed to be a Texan". Which was jumped all over by the conservative news outlets and so much hate was created that there were albums burnings and many country artists criticized them. You're entitled to your view of them, but to me they are heroes in standing up for their right to have an opinion and to speak it. "Shunned" - that's like some thing from the Puritan Days.

I'm glad to see Darius Rucker is having success in the country format, of course, he had star power already from "Hootie". I could care less that you stood next to him. A guy I worked with stood next to Bob Dylan at a concert, but he came back to work the next day. We have a black president, but he didn't win the vote in Tennessee. Oh yeah, Those racist ads "Call Me" says the white girl to the Black Senatorial candidate. Ick! I was talking to a real estate lady the other day who said she spent some time in Nashville and her comment was "why doesn't someone tell them the civil war is over and they lost". The last time I was in Nashville I was sitting in a bar on the row and overheard some very nasty comments about the black community that is nearby. And then there's Stone Mountain and all those Baptist this and that buildings. So, to me, it's not a place I'd want to call home. But it's all a matter of what you want. And if your situated right I'm sure none of that would bother you too much and every place has its' negatives. There are music centers in New York, Miami, Atlanta, Chicago, Memphis, Austin, and Los Angeles. And many I'm sure I missed, we even like to think we have a music scene here in Portland, OR. But if your going to be the next Harlan Howard, guess you'll go to Nashville and hang out at the Longhorn. Good Luck.

Pete

#702361 - 03/17/09 01:46 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: PeteG]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,111
Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Nashville, Tn.
Pete,

You've got quite a chip on your shoulder there dude. Oh, well, you can be who you want, say what you want, do what you want. Just making a few comments on your attitudes. But it is kind of expected. And you have quite a few misguided opinions, but you can have them all you want. Reality is a little different.
The Longhorn closed down about a year ago. But we do hang out quite a bit. What makes our community a little different than most. We actually support each other here. Too bad you haven't seen that, but you do get out what you put in.

MAB

#702371 - 03/17/09 02:02 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Marc Barnette]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Mike Dunbar Offline
Mike Dunbar  Offline


JPF Mentor

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Nashville Tennessee
Just for the record, I don't encounter any more racism in Nashville than I did in Chicago. We live in a black neighborhood, my kids attended mixed schools. My daughter married a Chinese fellow last week. My wife teaches at a traditionally Black university. I'll be playing a gig this week with Clifford Curry and J.J. Jones. Clifford is a legendary beach music singer (not at all country) and J.J. is a wonderful traditional country singer. They are both black. A few weeks ago, I did a gig with Hank Sesaki, the "Cowboy from Japan." In the past year, I've played sessions and gigs that were R&B, Rap, Blues, Jazz, Reggae, Pop, Irish Music, Metal, Folk and more...oh yeah, some country too.

Nash Bashers. LOL.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

#702379 - 03/17/09 02:10 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: PeteG]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 46
Brian Baughn Offline
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Brian Baughn  Offline
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Posts: 46
Baltimore, MD
Actually, Davidson County, which is basically the Nashville city limits, has voted for the Democratic Presidential Nominee in the last several elections.

Regarding Darius Rucker and star power...you could paper the walls of my house with the country album covers of former hit pop acts that tried to cross over and failed. His stuff is good!

Harlan used to hang at the Tavern on the Row. He had a plaque on the bar at his seat.


末末末末末末末末末
Brian Baughn
BaughnSongs
#702387 - 03/17/09 02:28 PM Re: F.A.O - Marc Barnette - regarding your ignorance [Re: Mike Dunbar]  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,554
Jack Swain Offline
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Jack Swain  Offline
Top 200 Poster

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,554
Berwyn, IL, US
I have a friend who lived through most of the 1970s into the mid-eighties on Maxwell Street in the heart of the old blues district in Chicago. He discovered many years ago that the people in his community, a black neighborhood to be sure back then loved his country music that he played at clubs and bars around Maxwell Street. In particular, the older black folks who migrated from the south and grew up listening to country were more supportive in Chicago than most other audiences in the city.

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