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lucian Offline OP
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Here is the 3rd song from my album (Mental Energy - available on iTunes June 09).

I appreciate any kind of feedback - good or bad - about any aspect of the song.

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7394338

Dreading Sundays - Words & Music (c) Lucian Shepherd 2009

Another day has gone away
How can you carry on this way?
Oh to find love and be 17 again

Look at you now, your life's a mess
Think of your mother and all her of distress
You can get back on top of the world again

I was once like you
Lost to this world
Popping pills, effervescent thrills and
Dreading Sundays

You could have been a sailor or
The captain of your own cruise liner
But are there left still seas uncharted?
I don't know

Why drift along so aimlessly when
you have a talent? Oh how you tantalize!
There's no wind now
so paddle real hard friend, until the end

I was once like you
Concussed, confused
In the shade of shadow hill
Dreading Sundays

Maybe one day soon
Time will flow again for you
And you're no longer drumming fills and
Dreading Sundays

Yo, *Nowhere Man, please listen
You don't know what you're missing

This world's glorious and full of lovely women
There's blonds, brunettes and redheads
And all kinds of different shades in between

Find yourself a mission.
Save the whale. Save the chicken.
Dream of the stars again without tripping
'Cos you never know when for you
Time will end my long lost friend.

*Line from the Beatles song Nowhere Man used subject to the permission of Sir Paul McCartney, Yoko Ono, John Lennon (if he can be contacted by a medium) and possibly Michael Jackson and others.

Last edited by lucian; 03/05/09 09:26 PM.

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Lucian,
I like it. I am a pop guy and this has a great feel and an excellent melody. Good work on the chorus, separated beautifully from the verses, melodically.

The conversational lyric really works for me too. And of course I like the fact you write about the real world and not the Moon in June.

That said I listened several times to get the mix you got on this. I even pulled out my head phones and turned it up and sacraficed some of my few remaining ear folicals and everything sounds dead center. Did you pan the guitars and I am just missing it?

For me the hardest sound to get right is a distorted guitar. Why is that? I know that this is not the sound you were going for but I am always amazed by the sound that Green Day and Weezer get. Huge and tight. Mine sound thin, distant and loose.

Anyway I really respect your songwriting craft you have a real good feel for it.

Tom

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First of all I like that rhyming pattern. I use it sometimes and always enjoy it.

Second, the lyrics are quite effective - unforced and natural sounding.

The melody work well with the lyrics and moves the song along nicely.

Well done

Tom


Thomas Shea

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lucian Offline OP
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Tom F, yes, in trying out a few mixing tips I neglected a few of the more basic ones! I've updated the mix now.

Thanks for comments on the song - glad you liked it.

Tom S, I always appreciate your thoughts. Glad you liked the song.

Cheers Lucian


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Lucian,

Just took a listen. I like the song, although it isn't one of my more favored genres. I like the casual flow of the lyric with the power b/g tracks.

Only one small nit...when it gets to the chorus, themusic is a little thin, particularly on the left channel. what I mean by that is there just isn't a lot of b/g music going on there. I like the melody change at he chorus a lot. That's one of the highlites of the song. I just think you need a little more going on in the b/g on the left channel.

That is the only nit I have. A good song, well done. Good luck with it!

Alan

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Wow!

This definitely works for me.

You've got the laidback feel working in concert with the lyrics, it feels very personal as you intended.

My random fave parts of the song were the first verse, "concussed, confused" and the ending when you finish strongly with the faster prosody and then slow it down for the outro. Nice.

Perhaps the "This world's glorious and full of lovely women / There's blonds, brunettes and redheads / And all kinds of different shades in between" lines might be reworked, as I'm sure Nowhere man would know all that; I realise though that the singer is trying to remind him that there is more life than drugs, it just doesn't fully come across like that to me. JMHO.

As Tom has mentioned, I'd also love to know how to get a fat distortion guitar sound like Weezer or the Ataris, and I feel this song might benefit from that as well.

Melodically this is FANTASTIC! I'm looking forward to your album.

Thanks for the listen!
Rich.

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Hi Lucian,

Despite having to listen to the low bandwidth, I quite enjoyed this.

I love everything associated with the refrain, every third line rhymes with "ill", "And you're no longer drumming fills" is a fantastic line.

The first verse has an identity rhyme (way/away)and a common thought (oh...seventeen again) so maybe you could kick this off stronger. Maybe the singer is mocking his friend with "oh, to be seventeen again" but it's unclear.

But then the singer can be seen as a true friend to the singee. Who knows why the singee's mom is distressed, but the singer puts us listeners on the "inside" of all this without us really knowing what's going on, so it's a little voyeuristic for me, but lets go on.

The word order here is puzzling:

But are there left still seas uncharted?

Now, if you mean it exactly like that (!) ...I have to think of "still waters run deep" as if the singer's friend is no stranger to "deep, quiet, complicated places" and quite possibly may have charted them all...I'm going out on a limb here... smile

Now in the next verse, the singer is quite concrete:

Why drift along so aimlessly when
you have a talent? Oh how you tantalize!
There's no wind now
so paddle real hard friend, until the end

The singer may be talking to himself here too. Last verse focused around "the sea", and now the singer puts his friend on a quiet river with his talent, and this works, cuz there's really no sharing ones talent on a canoe in the middle of a river, and so you're still be gentle, and yet pretty convincing. The singer obviously really cares for his friend.

With the next to last verse, the singer loosens up, sings more notes, reminds his friend that women exist, which usually cures me smile

The last verse has the singer basically saying "find a purpose for being alive", and with "save the chicken" suggests that it needn't be something "the world" understands, but make it a "mission", as in, do it "passionately" and the singer delivers these lines with a passion to match his words.

So after the close reading, I think you've gone from the general to the specific nicely in your verses, and I think this follows the natural contour of a "real talk" one friend might have with another friend whom he's worried about: from the general (seventeen again, life's a mess) to the specifics of later verses...

I don't think this would be as effective if we listeners jumped in with the singer already well into his sea and river analogies, they wouldn't have much context for being, so I'm all for the lyric as it stands, including "nowhere man", and think it's excellent writing Lucian, nice work...

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 03/05/09 07:36 AM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
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from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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lucian Offline OP
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Al - Thanks for the listen and compliments. RE: that lack of music in the chorus, I've got my new little Korg nanokey to play with now and a whole of host of cool midi sounds so I plan to put something extra in there when I got my head around using the damn thing! I put a little extra in there for time being.

Rich - Thanks for listen and the comments - I'm always happy when I get a "Wow!"

With abstract lyrics I tend to let the listener find their own meaning rather than say what my intended meaning was. Yours is a very good meaning you have put to it!

Music is always the main thing of course, and I'm glad you like it a lot of that front.

Mike - Thanks for the listen and the comments. I can see you've really dived into this one in analyzing it. I wrote it to hopefully be interpreted on different levels by different people, as I try and do when ever possible. And you have understood it very well and mostly seemed to make it work for you - is your meaning the same as I intended? I took a vow of silence when it came to explaining abstract lyrics some time ago, so I'll have to leave you wondering on that front - I don't suppose you'll lose to much sleep over it though smile

Cheers Lucian


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Originally Posted by lucian
I took a vow of silence when it came to explaining abstract lyrics some time ago, so I'll have to leave you wondering on that front
Cheers Lucian


haha, wouldn't want an explanation ... smile just offering how the lyric "hit me"...I definitely "get" where you are coming from with "interpretations" and "fixed" vs. "unfixed" meanings, and wouldn't want it any other way...I'll check out the updated mix, bro...later... smile

Mike


Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 03/05/09 10:17 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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Hi Lucian

I Really like this - I think the Melody is top notch ! The arrangement is good and the lyrics are original and interesting....

Your playing is good too.. my concern is that the vocals do not sit into the mix well enough .... I do hope you WIll get a master producer to help you Before you release the CD - it will be like night and day, I think.

best regards
jm


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An interesting song. It sounds mostly fine but I have to agree about the guitars. As a guitarist I understand how difficult it can be to get the right sounds but I use all Line6 gear which makes the process so much easier for recording. It was well played and pretty well written and it is quite obvious a lot of care was taken on the song's construction. Best of luck with it.

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Lucian:

This song got me moving along to it...exactly what I have come to expect from you. Great, catchy melody and a great, raw, energetic sound and feel. My only nit is the music in the chorus could be a little bit fuller. Also, I think a lot more could be done with the mixing here...maybe Sub will stop by with a few suggestions. But this song is hookey and musical and that alone is a lot. I'm enjoying hearing your CD come together piece by piece. Keep them coming.

Mark


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Lucian,

I listened to the first one 3 times. I didn't get to the 2nd one. This one is by far the best. I really enjoyed the music to this. It just has a really cool overall vibe to it. You've hit the cool factor. I can't say what or why I like this so much, but I do. It just works, I suppose. I like your words and the whole "get over your damn self" kind of thing..especially the, "save the whale, save the chicken" line. Good work, my friend!


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Hi Lucian,

Wow, this is darn right up beat! Positive, even! Some cool lines:
"Oh to find love and be 17 again"
"Popping pills, effervescent thrills"
"Save the whale. Save the chicken" This one is inspired!
I think the music sets it off nicely as well. Can't speak for the production.

The only nits I have are with a couple of lines that seem turned around and sound a bit awkward.
"But are there left still seas uncharted?"
Do you mean, "But are there any seas left uncharted?"

"'Cos you never know when for you
Time will end my long lost friend"
Could you work it in like this?
"'Cos my long lost friend
you never know when
Your time will end"?

Just some thoughts.

Ricki

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Hi Lucian,

Enjoyed your guitar playing a lot, real nice.
And you have some cool lines in here , let me show ya what I like the best...
___________________________
Oh to find love and be 17 again
___________________________
In the shade of shadow hill
___________________________
And you're no longer drumming fills
___________________________
Save the whale. Save the chicken.
___________________________
Dream of the stars again without tripping
___________________________


"Thank for sharing your talent."

Calvin


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Originally Posted by lucian
Al

Rich - Thanks for listen and the comments - I'm always happy when I get a "Wow!"

With abstract lyrics I tend to let the listener find their own meaning rather than say what my intended meaning was. !



Hi Lucian......First of all don't tell me your going all Dylan with the quote about not explaining lyrics LOL


I like this it has a unique style and character....I cannot fault the melody or arrangement....I think your singing has improved yet again...Not keen on the fx LEAVES OUT A LOT OF MIDDLE AND BOTTOM (too much filtering?) and it is far back in the mix...but that is maybe down to personal taste...The whole piece was a bit thin...too top endy for my taste. But all in all a pretty good job.

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This is a pretty cool song, the instrumentation is solid and I enjoyed the singing. I was going to ask what the lyrics meant .. (LOL). Nice lead break.

The vocals sound sort of tin canny to me. You had probably put a analyzer on the lead and harmony singing to see what EQ settings you need to adjust. The lead vox, at times, is close to that clipping area that I dread so much. One other thing, you probably need to amplify the bass a little more, it seems MIA to me.

Glad to see your making progress on your CD.

Kevin


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Joice Marie - glad you liked it - yes, I plan to get it mixed and mastered before releasing it. I enjoy doing the process myself for the time being as it helps me understand music better.

Mark C - I'll take that as a "Eh, that's not bad for a shandy drinking southern softeh!" Guitar's sound isn't quite right I agree. I've been looking at the Line 6 stuff and I'll probably get a Pod X3 when funds become available.

Mark S - Glad you liked this one - got some ideas about extra chorus music I'm playing about with.

Wendy - Cool, oh I like that, I'm gonna go have to get a pair of shades. It's quite hard to define why things work or don't and I felt this one did, and I'm pleased you agree.

Ricki - hey, you're starting to get some of my songs. I'm pleased about that 'cos I want as wide an appeal as possible. Regarding the lyrical word order, they were these way for issues of prosody, singability and meaning.

Calvin - thanks for compliments, glad you liked it.

Big Jim - yes, like to think I am able to put my own stamp on my own songs - I think that's pretty important! Some of the effects I was just experimenting with, I'll try a few different things when it comes to the final version.

Kevin - you have a good set of clipping ears - the vocals were right on the cusp of clipping, which is why they're not as loud in the mix. I guess that's how mixers and masterers earn their money by sorting out issues such as that. I was pleased with lead break so glad someone commented on that.

Thanks again, Lucian


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Hi Lucian:

This is very cool - sounds like a poet took a 50's pop song, wrote his own updated lyric, then had a punk band perform it. smile

Very melodic!

Only thing I'm not sure about is the processing on the vocals - seems just a little over the top.

Nice work - you're on a good run so far... smile

Scott

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Sorry to bump this one up from the 5th page but have been away and always like to thank people for taking the time to leave comments.

Scott, thanks very much for your listen and comments. "a poet" I like that a lot! I'll probably change the vocal effects on the final mix.

Time to start work on the next one now!

Cheers Lucian

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Good efforts, Lucian. I think it might need something more to grab onto. Hooks, hooks and more hooks!
Good luck.


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Hi- We are not familiar with one another but I read the title and had to check it. I had a song called Dreading Sunset. smile
This reminds me of the beatles. smile Only one nit, the tingle in the chorus, not sure if it works for me, as it kinda is too much like symphany than the rock style it is. Maybe do it more with the cymbols? I am not sure what you used. I am not a musician, as you can tell. ;)I do like the song tho. good sound and lyrics. great hook. Kimberly


*Always open to collaborations on my lyrics.. with singers and musicians, but PLEASE contact me before putting work into one--in case someone else has it..thanks!!**
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Hi Lucian,

Going pop now, huh? :-) I like this very much, love the way you break the rules and burst into a lead solo in the chorus (and a good one too!).

You don't seem to use the melody from Nowhere Man, so if you just paraphrase the lines (make small changes) instead of quoting them, I don't think you need the permission. The title Nowhere Man is not subjected to copyright (you can't copyright a title), and intertextual references (like paraphrasing would be) are allowed, and used all the time.

Only thing that didn't came out good in my ears was the distorted guitar in the intro. It lack's sustain (probably because of the dry sound you use), and sounded plain wrong - but you might fix it by holding the chords a little longer or borrow a sustain pedal to let'em ring out (or cheat, by recording two overdub's and let each one ring out). Or if you need to keep the sound, play the intro differently, so it doesn't beg the 'ring out'.

Don't let a sloppy intro ruin a great song, as this has this listen again quality to it, to me.

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lucian Offline OP
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Kimberly, thanks for the listen and feedback. Glad you liked it, I was experimenting with a few things with this and the final version will have the things you mentioned ironed out. I'll look out for your "Dreading Sunsets" song!

John, thanks for the listen and compliments. I don't really write songs to rigid rules and just see where the songs wants to go. So hooks to me are things to catch fish with and put my coat on!

Magne, more the power pop/rock indie route I'm taking, I am quite partial to a bit of good old plain pop sometimes though. Good spot about the guitar sound on the intro. I've got my new Line 6 toy coming tomorrow and hopefully I'll be able to get the sound I'm after with that.

Cheers Lucian



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